2015 Trade Value: #30 to #21

Introduction
Players #50 to #41
Players #40 to #31

We’re halfway through the list, and are heading towards the game’s most valuable assets. Today, we mix in a few of the best players in baseball with a few very good young players on some highly team-friendly deals.

As a reminder, in addition to the player’s biographical information, I’ve added a summary of his contract situation, and as a new feature this year, Dan Szymborski has provided me with five year ZIPS forecasts for all of the players on the list, which I’ve listed along with their 2016 projection. Of course, not every player listed is under control for the next five years — some are locked up well beyond that time frame — but this should offer you a pretty decent view of what a player is expected to do both in the short-term and the longer-term, according to Dan’s forecasting system.

For the contract details, I’m only displaying future obligations beginning with their 2016 salary. I’ve tried to ensure that these are as accurate as can be, but they were also collected manually, so there probably will be some mistakes; there are plenty of weird clauses and options that make aggregating all this information particularly annoying. Also, we’re not including things like All-Star bonuses or incentive escalators, as this is intended to give more of a big picture view than be a precise accounting of the exact cost of a future player. A few hundred thousand here and there won’t change the rankings.

Also, keep in mind that some players have contracts that give them a guaranteed minimum, but they are also able to opt-into arbitration when they are eligible. This is pretty common now with prominent international signings, and so some of these guys will probably earn more than their contracts currently call for, but I’ve still just included the guaranteed minimum in the future salary commitment because we don’t know for sure that they’re going to opt into arbitration yet.

Finally, we’ve also included a nifty little graphic at the bottom that visualizes a lot of the information contained below, so if you want to see the projections and contract status for everyone together, you can get a summary of that at the bottom. The chart goes out five years, so some players have additional value beyond what’s displayed, but it should give you a good overview of what each player offers going forward.

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Alright, on to the list.


#30: Andrelton Simmons, SS, Atlanta
Controlled Through: 2020
Guaranteed Dollars: $53 million
2016 ZIPS WAR: +3.6
Five year ZIPS WAR: +17.5
Last Year: #28

Simmons is always tough to place on this list, because while he’s the very best defensive player in baseball — and plays a position where everyone values defensive contributions — he’s just not much of a hitter, or at least, isn’t yet much of a hitter. Even with elite contact skills and an improving batted ball profile that has reduced his number of infield flies, Simmons continues to be a poor hittter, making his present value solely dependent on his work with the glove. But the glove is so good that Simmons remains a high-caliber player even without much offensive contribution, and at 25, it’s not out of the realm of possibility to think that there’s some offensive growth yet to come.

I’ve had more than one front office member point out that Simmons’ early career numbers look remarkably similar to that of Ozzie Smith. And if Simmons takes any kind of step forward at the plate, he’s a superstar. As it is now, he’s more of a very good player than a great one, and while his contract isn’t as cheap as some of the others in this area — he’s due $53 million over the next five years — he’s still making a fraction of what he’s actually worth. But if there was no growth potential and this is what Simmons was, he’d belong 10 or 20 spots lower, so putting him in the top 30 reflects some belief that teams see additional upside, and might project him as more of a +4 to +5 win player with some slightly improved offense. I think there are enough teams in baseball that would bet on his bat improving faster than his glove slows down to generate a lot of interest if the Braves decided to put Simmons on the market.


#29: Jose Abreu, 1B, Chicago
Controlled Through: 2019
Guaranteed Dollars: $44 million
2016 ZIPS WAR: +3.1
Five year ZIPS WAR: +13.1
Last Year: #10

I caught a decent amount of flak for putting Abreu in the top ten a year ago, and in retrospect, that skepticism was well deserved. Abreu is a very good hitter, but he’s about as one dimensional as a player can get, and when he’s not slugging .600, he’s more of a good player than a true star. Abreu’s better than his first half numbers would indicate, but that five year ZIPS projection is harsh — Abreu has the lowest projected WAR over the next five years of anyone on the list, in fact — and a reminder that this is a big-bodied 28 year old who might not age particularly well. There’s no question that teams will pay a premium for power in this day and age, and Abreu is still one of the game’s most impactful hitters, but he’s not quite at the level of the other franchise players who actually belong in the top 10.

A complicating factor is his ability to opt into arbitration after next season, though with a $10 million guaranteed salary for 2017, it seems highly unlikely that he’ll do so the first time. But perhaps in 2018 and definitely by 2019, Abreu should be able to argue for higher salaries than his original contract calls for, so the $44 million in remaining commitments is a floor, not a ceiling. With a few more good seasons racking up homers and RBIs, those last couple of arbitration years could cost an extra $15 million or so, pushing the total closer to $60 million over the final four years of Abreu’s deal. That’s still a huge bargain relative to what he’d get as a free agent, but he fits better in this range than in last year’s aggressive placement.


#28: Yasiel Puig, OF, Los Angeles
Controlled Through: 2019
Guaranteed Dollars: $19.5 million
2016 ZIPS WAR: +4.6
Five year ZIPS WAR: +22.4
Last Year: #5

Speaking of difficult assets to value, Puig offers both some very strong positives and some pretty big negatives, and how an organization feels about him will likely depend on how they weight those variables. On the plus side, Puig is a 24 year old with a 147 wRC+ in the big leagues, and all the tools to suggest that he could be one of the game’s best outfielders for years to come. On the downside, his early success was built on the back of unsustainable BABIPs, and he’s at a 119 wRC+ this year while running something a bit closer to a reasonable level. His power is also going the wrong way, as his ISOs have gone from .215 to .185 to .168 during his three big league seasons.

Even going back to the last calendar year, Puig has hit just .270/.356/.421 over 433 plate appearances, and nagging injuries have caused him to miss significant time during that stretch as well. An optimist could say that the health issues have caused the struggles and he’ll get back to crushing the ball once he gets healthy, but lingering injury issues for a big guy in his early-20s also isn’t a great sign for long-term durability. And then there’s all the off-field stuff, which would be a big factor to some organizations, and would probably drive at least a few potential buyers out of the market. His contract also isn’t quite as team friendly as the chart makes it look, as he’ll be able to opt into arbitration after next year, and his costs over the final three years are quite likely to be higher than the minimum guarantees stipulated by his contract.

Of course, all those negatives look like small potatoes when Puig is crushing the baseball, but he hasn’t done that consistently for a while now, so it’s become somewhat easier to pick out the flaws in his game. It’s very possible that Puig is in store for a monster second half that will remind everyone who he was one spot behind Bryce Harper a year ago, but right now, his value is down, and the Dodgers would be selling low if they moved him.


#27: Matt Harvey, SP, New York
Controlled Through: 2018
Guaranteed Dollars: None
2016 ZIPS WAR: +4.2
Five year ZIPS WAR: +20.0
Last Year: #25

After a year of rehab, Harvey is back on the mound, but he doesn’t yet appear to be the same Matt Harvey that was destroying opposing hitters before tearing his UCL; the walks are up, the strikeouts are down, and he’s giving up more than his fair share of home runs. This isn’t unusual for a guy working his way back from surgery, but it does mean that his present value is a little bit diminished relative to his potential, and a team acquiring him would have to expect perhaps more good performance now with the hope of great performance down the line.

But the rehab year also cost him a year of service time, so if you’re acquiring Harvey for long-term value, you also have to keep in mind that he’s only under team control for three more seasons after this one, and with Scott Boras representing him, you’re probably not keeping him out of the free agent market. So Harvey’s more of a medium-term play, a guy you definitely want for the next few years but not someone you can count on having long-term. But the upside through 2018 is obvious, and the DL time will serve to keep his arbitration prices down at reasonable levels, so there’s still a ton of value here. Which is why the Mets will keep him.


#26: Christian Yelich, OF, Miami
Controlled Through: 2022
Guaranteed Dollars: $49 million
2016 ZIPS WAR: +3.8
Five year ZIPS WAR: +19.7
Last Year: Unranked

In what was probably the biggest oversight in putting the list together a year ago, I whiffed on Yelich, and even after a rough start to the 2015 season, he still belongs in this group. His absurdly high ground ball rates mean that he’ll probably never hit for a ton of power, but avoiding hitting the ball in the air also keeps his BABIP quite high, so combined with his walks and speed, Yelich remains a very good offensive player. Toss in plus defense in a corner outfield spot, and Yelich is an excellent player, even if not exactly the prototypical slugger teams often want in a corner spot. The game is changing, though, and Yelich’s broad base of skills are valued now even as a left fielder.

And the contract he signed with the Marlins this spring doesn’t hurt his value either. In exchange for long-term security, he sold his three arbitration years (2017-2019) for a total of $21 million, plus Miami bought out two free agent seasons at a total of $26 million, and got a team option for a seventh year at just $15 million to boot. Assuming that option gets picked up, Yelich is controlled for the next seven years at a total of just $62 million. Even if he never develops big time power, he’ll be worth that deal many times over, and if he does figure out how to elevate the ball eventually, he could be one of the game’s biggest bargains for years to come.


#25: Starling Marte, OF, Pittsburgh
Controlled Through: 2021
Guaranteed Dollars: $28.5 million
2016 ZIPS WAR: +4.0
Five year ZIPS WAR: +17.9
Last Year: #49

At publication last year, Marte was hitting just .256/.324/.383, good for a 104 wRC+. He snuck onto the end of the list based on his speed, defense, and upside, but the limited offensive performance kept him from climbing any higher. Over the last calendar year, however, Marte has hit .305/.358/.497, good for a 141 wRC+, and his +4.9 WAR is tied for 19th best among position players. He’s still a bit unpolished, hacking too often at pitches he can’t hit and not utilizing his speed well on the bases, but Marte has developed into an excellent player on both sides of the ball.

And his contract was essentially the template for Yelich’s deal, though because it was signed a year earlier, it also expires a year earlier. Assuming both team options are exercised, the Pirates have Marte signed up for six years at a grand total of just $49 million, a relative pittance for the prime years of one of the game’s best outfielders. While the more famous outfielder playing is the biggest reason the Pirates are one of baseball’s best teams, their left fielder is a big part of the success too, and it’s hard to imagine a scenario where Neil Huntington would give him up.


#24: Anthony Rendon, 2B, Washington
Controlled Through: 2019
Guaranteed Dollars: None
2016 ZIPS WAR: +5.2
Five year ZIPS WAR: +24.2
Last Year: #13

This one is all about health. When Anthony Rendon is on the field, he’s among the very best players in the game, offering high-level offensive output with defensive value at either second or third base. He’s even a wildly under-appreciated baserunner, and few players can match his value across the board. But he slipped in the 2011 draft because of lingering health problems that had dogged him throughout his college career, and now he’s spent nearly all of the 2015 season on the DL with various lower-half injuries. He also appears to be a particularly slow healer, with his returns usually taking longer than originally estimated.

For the risk-averse, this ranking is likely too aggressive, as you simply don’t have the security of knowing what you’ll be getting from Rendon over the next four years. But I think his risk/reward combination puts him on par with most of the best young pitchers in baseball, and that’s a group that’s pretty well represented in this list, so while he’s certainly high-risk for a position player, I don’t think the health concerns are enough to drive him any lower than this. Especially because he doesn’t have the kind of gaudy numbers that will drive his arbitration prices through the roof, so his remaining four years of team control should be reasonably priced.


#23: Jose Fernandez, SP, Miami
Controlled Through: 2018
Guaranteed Dollars: None
2016 ZIPS WAR: +3.8
Five year ZIPS WAR: +20.4
Last Year: #34

Fernandez and Harvey are similar in so many ways, from the ridiculous dominance pre-injury through their recovery from Tommy John surgery. Both are heading to arbitration for the first time this winter, and both are represented by Scott Boras, so expect no long-term deal here either. Fernandez is four years younger, which is the primary reason he’s ranked ahead of Harvey, but age for pitchers doesn’t matter as much as it does for hitters, so the gap isn’t that large.

Fernandez has only made two starts since being back, so we have less information about what he is in the short-term, but if he keeps pitching like he did in those starts, there’s a case to be made that he should be even higher than this. He’s a pretty special pitcher, and even with just three years of team control remaining, the price to pry him out of the Marlins hands would be remarkably high.


#22: Noah Syndergaard, SP, New York
Controlled Through: 2021
Guaranteed Dollars: None
2016 ZIPS WAR: +3.1
Five year ZIPS WAR: +16.8
Last Year: Unranked

Syndergaard’s first few months in the big leagues could have hardly gone better; he’s still sitting at 97 and throwing a dominating curveball, but he’s also pounding the strike zone in a way that he didn’t in the minor leagues; the total package has resulted in ace-level performance from the 22 year old. With top-shelf stuff, Thor’s future has always hinged on how well he could command his stuff, and the early returns have been nothing short of exceptional. Of course, it’s a very short track record, and there are few assets as volatile as young pitching, but Syndergaard is one of the best young pitchers in baseball, and is showing why the Mets were not willing to move him for a bat over the winter.

Nor should they do so now. With six years of team control remaining — although he likely will be a Super Two guy, getting four bites at the arbitration apple — Syndergaard is both a very good pitcher now and an excellent long-term asset. He comes with all the trappings that accompany every pitcher in baseball, but if you were looking for a young arm to build around, you won’t find many better options than this one. Considering he’s theoretically the Mets #3 starter, that’s not a bad little group being assembled up in Queens.


#21: Giancarlo Stanton, OF, Miami
Controlled Through: 2020
Guaranteed Dollars: $318.5 million
2016 ZIPS WAR: +5.5
Five year ZIPS WAR: +26.2
Last Year: #15

There might not be a player on this list who would generate a wider range of responses from the other teams if he was actually made available for trade. Given the sheer size of the long-term commitment, it’s likely that at least a few franchises would have no interest, while those with some financial flexibility and the incentive to win now would be thrilled to acquire the game’s premier slugger. This isn’t a guy who would appeal to everyone, but to those with interest, it would be intense.

The key to determining Stanton’s trade value really turns on the odds of him exercising his opt-out clause; if you’re convinced he’s going to use it to re-enter free agency after the 2020 season, then an acquiring team would only be on the hook for $100 million over the next five years, a pittance for one of the game’s superstars; even low-revenue clubs would sign up to take Stanton at 5/$100m. But if his continual string of injuries begin to break his body down prematurely — or the injuries are simply a sign that a guy this size might not be able to stay on the field regularly in his thirties — then the remaining $218 million over the final seven years could be a very stiff tax to pay for getting his the remainder of his productive years.

If you think the injuries are no big deal and he’s going to remain a +5 win player for the next four or five years, you can give up the moon to get him and not worry about the end of the contract, because he’ll void it for you. But there’s a lot of risk in that bet, and if he keeps getting hurt, then he’s probably not worth trading a lot of good assets for. Both the risk and reward are quite high, so I’ve ended up placing him here, though your own risk aversion might dictate that he be 10 spots higher or not on the list at all, with nearly any ranking in between being justifiable. He’s just a very hard asset to value.

TradeValue3021





Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.

120 Comments
Oldest
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john
11 years ago

I’m sure Stanton will lead to much debate. It’s a tough situation because there is so much uncertainty involved. I’d personally not rank him because the downside outweighs the upside IMO.

Vernon Wells
11 years ago
Reply to  john

If he’s a mere shell of himself by 2020, he’ll have the joy of getting $30M a year for 7 years from Jeff Loria.

Unless Arte Moreno just HAS to have him….

Anon21
11 years ago
Reply to  Vernon Wells

Maybe. More likely, Loria will package Stanton with the entire rest of the team to some big-market club to avoid the indignity of actually having to pay a contract he agreed to.

Ray Cleverly
11 years ago
Reply to  Anon21

I thought Stanton had a no-trade clause?

joe
11 years ago
Reply to  Vernon Wells

I can see that happening. Moreno is going to pay Harper a billion dollars when he becomes a free agent and he’s going to acquire Stanton to form a super outfield. The rest of the lineup will be replacement level players, however.

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago
Reply to  joe

Harper is going to be a free agent after the 2017 season.

A-Rod’s contract expires after 2017.

…’nuff said.

a eskpert
11 years ago
Reply to  joe

And CC Sabathia. Tex will be off the books after next season.

$cott Bora$
11 years ago
Reply to  joe

😀

FamousMortimer
11 years ago
Reply to  joe

Both Andre Ethier and Carl Crawford will be off the books after 2017. Adrian Gonzalez will only have one year left. Not that Bryce was going to have to worry about people lining up to pay him.

Ben Cherington
11 years ago
Reply to  joe

We’ll have Hanley Ramirez coming off the…I mean Sandoval…nope.

Porcello, yeah Porcello’s deal will be over by then…oops.

[Just go ahead and shoot me now.]

O'KieboomerMember since 2021
11 years ago

No red sox? Where’s Pedoria?

Buck
11 years ago
Reply to  O'Kieboomer

Be suprised if Pedroia is higher than Stanton. Under contract through age 37 season, already on the wrong side of the performance curve. The contract isn’t bad, but you can’t just assume the production will stay at the current level. Tough to see the surplus value relative to the contract being higher than what Stanton would offer.

Though the overall smaller AAV of the contract makes it more likely to be taken by another team, so maybe from that angle he’s more valuable than Stanton.

Blinzler
11 years ago
Reply to  O'Kieboomer

Not ranked this year/fell out of the top 50, Dave wrote it in his opening article.

Mookie Betts
11 years ago
Reply to  O'Kieboomer

Tomorrow, Tomorrow…

Boourns
11 years ago
Reply to  Mookie Betts

Mookie, I’d be very surprised if you were listed tomorrow. I think Friday.

Ringo
11 years ago
Reply to  Mookie Betts

More like “Friday, Friday, gotta get down on Friiiday,” knowing Dave.

FamousMortimer
11 years ago
Reply to  Ringo

During his chat today, Dave said Mookie is coming tomorrow. Spoiler alert.

monday
11 years ago
Reply to  Mookie Betts

this is when you should be listed

John C
11 years ago
Reply to  O'Kieboomer

I would think Mookie Betts will be in here somewhere. Xander Bogaerts has already been listed.

kid
11 years ago
Reply to  John C

In Stanton’s defense, neither his broken face nor his broken wrist were the “soft-tissue” injuries typically associated with a guy who can’t stay healthy; both injuries could have happened to anybody.

Regarding Abreu, he’s hitting tons of groundballs ever since his breakout first half of ’14. If he can reverse that, perhaps at the expense of few points of BA, that power would re-emerge.

Boourns
11 years ago
Reply to  John C

I would guess that Mookie will be top 10, maybe even top 5. At his age, with his skill set on both defense (playing a new position no less) and offense (already looking like a younger Pedroia (albeit w/ more speed and power), with room to grow), he is clearly one of the most valuable assets in baseball (differential between gross value and salary).

Ed. Rodriguez may also make this list, although I’m not sure I see him as a top 20 trade value, so maybe not. I would think that would be it for the Red Sox.

Brian
11 years ago
Reply to  Boourns

I thought Mookie might crack the top 10 too. Cameron just said on his chat he’ll be on the Thursday list. Guessing top 10 is:

Trout, Harper, Goldy, Sale, McCutchen, Machado, Rizzo, Correa, Bryant, Kluber

not necessarily in that order.

Pitchers in the top ten?
11 years ago
Reply to  Boourns

Let’s see if Dave decides to break his “No pitchers in the top ten” rule from last year in regards to Sale.

Eric M. Van
11 years ago
Reply to  Boourns

Andrew McCutchen broke in at age 22, and at age 24 blossomed from a 3.65 aWAR player (average b and f) into a 5.6. At that point, he had 2223 ml PA and 1146 in MLB.

He then had a 3-year 7.25 aWAR peak, ages 25-27. He’s on a pace for 6.1 this year, and is signed for his ages 29-31 for $41.75M.

Mookie Betts broke in at age 21 with a 5.8 aWAR/150 season and at age 22 is on pace for 6.4. He’s doing this after just 1311 ml PA and 213 in MLB, and after converting to his current defensive position last May 18. He is under team control for five more pre-FA years, his ages 23-27 seasons.

On what planet would McCutchen have more trade value than Betts?

Yanks23242
11 years ago
Reply to  Boourns

Top 5 players in their prime signed to team friendly deals tend to have value than players who have yet to play a full season.

Eric M. Van
11 years ago
Reply to  Boourns

Top 5 players in their prime signed to team friendly deals tend to have value than players [like Betts] who have yet to play a full season.
Mookie’s had 591 PA, with 6.3 bWAR. That’s pretty much a full year. The complete list of players in MLB history who had a season, aged 22 or younger, with a higher WAR/PA with less pro experience (by PA):

Eddie Collins, Jimmie Foxx, Al Kaline, Ted Williams, Alex Rodriguez, and Mike Trout.

Two years ago, on May 5, he was slugging .263 after 105 PA in low-A ball. He’s been +19 R/150 in CF by DRS this year (and has looked just that good) after 73 pro games at the position.

I don’t think “tend” is an operative word here.

Kris
11 years ago

Syndergaard at 21 in overall trade value and 19 in Kiley’s rankings. Assuming Giolito, Urias and Rodon are coming up or are we that swayed by 60 innings from Thor?

O'KieboomerMember since 2021
11 years ago
Reply to  Kris

Giolito in A+, Urias in AA, Rodon still under 100 IP in his stateside career. Lets calm down on those fellas before reveling in them as among the top 50 tradeable assets in the game.

Thor’s had top prospect pedigree and elite production when considering ARL at every level and in strong offensive environments in the minors. 2 fWAR in 66 innings from a 22 yo throwing 97 definitely moves the needle.

Kris
11 years ago
Reply to  O'Kieboomer

I mostly was exaggerating while trying to point out its high for a pitching prospect, 11 good starts or not.

vivalajeter
11 years ago
Reply to  Kris

In addition to the Major League innings, he also had about 30 dominant innings in AAA, in a horrible pitching environment. So it’s really about 95 innings that would have changed things.

And aside from just the numbers, he’s also shown great improvement in some of his weaknesses (command & secondary pitches).

Chad
11 years ago
Reply to  O'Kieboomer

Clearly, it does. But it shouldn’t. It’s 66 innings, one time through the league. Those other people you talked about are just as top prospect pedigrees, if not higher.

O'KieboomerMember since 2021
11 years ago
Reply to  Chad

And they’re further away, hence more risk, which is factored into trade value. Please try to keep up.

Boourns
11 years ago
Reply to  O'Kieboomer

Exactly. On a related point, I don’t understand all of these prospect sites listing Giolito ahead of Urias. Both guys have been completely dominant, but Urias has mastered AA at age 18, while Giolito has master A+ at age 21. Yes, Giolito looks like a likely ace, but Urias is on a whole different level.

Kyle
11 years ago
Reply to  Boourns

It’s because Giolito has stuff that’d instantly be top 10 if he was called up tommorow. His TJS and the fact he plays for the Nationals has slowed his development, otherwise he’d be in the majors right now.

He’s also going to double A next start for what it’s worth

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago
Reply to  Boourns

Giolito has thrown 6 innings in a start. Urias has not yet done so.

Also, he’s bigger and stronger, so people are more confident in his ability to throw 6 innings 35 times.

cs3
11 years ago
Reply to  Boourns

Giolito did not have the opportunity to pitch professionally at age 16-17 like Urias did. So its not necessarily that he did not have the skill that Urias possessed at the same age.

Also Giolito lost an entire year to TJ.

Not sure how you get that Urias is “on a whole different level”

brian
11 years ago
Reply to  Kris

I’m guessing they aren’t coming up. Probably swayed somewhat by what he’s done and proximity to the majors/being in the majors compared to Urias and Giolito.

Lukas
11 years ago
Reply to  Kris

Rodon just missed according to the introduction. Giolito is still in high A and Urias has all of 36 innings in AA. I think Syndergaard’s success in the majors makes him a fair bit more valuable.

Baseball Anagram Values #30 - #21
11 years ago

Latest installment of Baseball Anagram Values on NotGraphs:

http://www.fangraphs.com/not/notgraphs-a-valedictory-statement/#comment-327364

Compton
11 years ago

Does anyone know who’s doing this? Please reveal your genius at the end!

My money is on the Well-Beered Englishman.

O'KieboomerMember since 2021
11 years ago
Reply to  Compton

That fella is just so funny! It’s great commenters like these that keep me coming back to Fangraps

a vampire
11 years ago
Reply to  O'Kieboomer

I walk at night all round the hood
Bustin’ into your crib to suck your blood….

Well-Beered Englishman
11 years ago
Reply to  Compton

Nope, my NotGraphsian stuff is over at Banknotes Industries.

I thought about jumping in with anagrams, but whoever is doing them is doing a fantastic job by him/herself.

tz
11 years ago
Reply to  Compton

It was me.

nick
11 years ago

#23: Jose Fernandez = Frozen DeJeans

Marcus Tullius Cicero
11 years ago

Love the efforts so far, but I think you missed a golden opportunity:

Noah Syndergaard = Has Angry Norse Dad

Baseball Anagram Values #30 - #21
11 years ago

EXCELLENT!

I bet after seeing his son’s original anagram, Thor Sr. was quite angry lol.

Cave Dumberon
11 years ago

lol!

Jay
11 years ago

Count me in the bunch that would not have Stanton on here. You can argue that he’ll be worth the money, sure — but actually trading away other pieces of value in addition to taking on that contract… I just don’t see it.

O'KieboomerMember since 2021
11 years ago
Reply to  Jay

Hate it when teams trade for good players that are properly valued.

Nothing makes me happier than when my team acquired great value, even if we don’t ultimately make the playoffs I can smile when I see our $/WAR. God I love life as a Rays fan.

DNA+
11 years ago
Reply to  O'Kieboomer

I can’t imagine caring about anything other than winning as a fan. …but then I’m a Yankees fan.

Brian
11 years ago
Reply to  Jay

He’s almost impossible to rank, so I hear you.

But once I think about it for a bit, I’d absolutely trade Syndergaard straight up for Stanton. There aren’t many guys listed so far who I wouldn’t trade for Stanton, even with that monster deal. So I guess I can’t really disagree much with the ranking.

I guess that assumes you’re a pretty well heeled team though because obviously the Rays wouldn’t be able to do that.

Brett W
11 years ago

If Giancarlo was on waivers, I would be nervous about my team’s GM claiming him with all the potential downside on that deal, never mind trading talent to get him.

O'KieboomerMember since 2021
11 years ago
Reply to  Brett W

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

cedric lee
11 years ago
Reply to  Brett W

that’s why you’re not a gm

Fan
11 years ago

Fernandez jumps 11 spots with one less year of control and no performance to speak of in the interim. Odd.

Brian
11 years ago
Reply to  Fan

Well he’d just gotten hurt before the last list. So he’s not 11 months away from contributing. Which helps.

vivalajeter
11 years ago
Reply to  Fan

His ‘year of control’ involved not being able to pitch though. There was also the risk of whether he would recover from surgery successfully, or have a 2nd surgery during the rehab process, lose velocity, etc. Now that we know his ‘stuff’ is back, I can see why he would move up a few spots.

Ben
11 years ago
Reply to  Fan

Wouldn’t you trade more for him now than you would have immediately following his injury?

ShauncoreMember since 2019
11 years ago

Are the 5-year ZiPS available anywhere, or just a little inside info between FG and Szym?

Adam S
11 years ago

Abreu still seems WAY high. Compared with Simmons, Puig, and Harvey, the three players nearest him on the list, Abreu is ~1WAR/year worse and a few $M pricier.

Is there a reason you think Abreu will well exceed his ZIPS projection? Your ranking implies he’s going to be ~4 WAR player from 2017-2019. Or do you simply believe that GMs will overpay for the slugging 1B/LF/DH profile?

kid
11 years ago
Reply to  Adam S

Reliable, upper-echelon power is scarce.

TKDC
11 years ago

Looking at the two guys listed yesterday that had a bit over $100 million left in commitments, I’d have a hard time trading either Freeman or Felix straight up for Stanton. Sure, there’s a good deal more upside the next five years*, but the last seven years is pure downside. The worst case scenario is a contract that would cripple any small market team and would be tough for even larger (non-Dodgers/Yankees) market teams to handle.

*It is also certainly possible that either Freeman or Felix provides more value the next five years.

JollyJack
11 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

Dongs.

Art Vandelay
11 years ago

OK, now I’m getting worried Grandal won’t be on here. A 26 year old catcher with team control through 2019 with above average offensive numbers and not terrible defense seems like he should have made the list.

Robert Kral
11 years ago
Reply to  Art Vandelay

Tell me about it.

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago
Reply to  Robert Kral

There’s a joke here that I’m not getting, right?

Malcolm-Jamal Hegyes
11 years ago

Cistulli kept trotting this guy out in his prospect lists, but take a look at his actual stats:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-top-10-prospects-currently-by-projected-war-3/

Dreamin
11 years ago
Reply to  Art Vandelay

also past PED violations

TKDC
11 years ago
Reply to  Art Vandelay

Well, he’s not making the list, as I think the list below is accurate. I’d agree he probably should have, or at least been mentioned by name in the introduction. There are a number of marks against him, including the PED suspension, the fact he was traded for Matt Kemp (though that could be just a mental block for the author), his defense outside of pitch framing, and the fact he’s only played in 285 MLB games.

But yes, it’s pretty easy to go through the guys listed on Monday and think he’d fetch more than most of them (not Todd Frazier. Please don’t call me retarded).

Big Mike
11 years ago

Most of the remaining 20 is pretty obvious, but I’m pretty interested in seeing where Bryant, Correa and Joc fall in that group.

Malcolm Jamal-Hegyes
11 years ago
Reply to  Big Mike

Joc #16, Correa #8, Bryant #4

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago

Correa vs. Bryant is what I’m most interested in. Correa’s 2 years younger and plays a decent SS…but Bryant’s bat.

Grant
11 years ago

Top 20, in no particular order:
Trout, Goldy, McCuth, Harper, Bryant, Correa, Betts, Donaldson, Posey, Machado, Sale, DeGrom, Pederson, Archer, Rizzo, Sonny Gray, Gerrit Cole, Kluber, Baumgarner and Arendo?

Nate McCuth
11 years ago
Reply to  Grant

I doubt it. Not this year at least.

Big Mike
11 years ago
Reply to  Grant

That’s exactly who I was thinking.

Maniel Durphy
11 years ago
Reply to  Grant

seems pretty reasonable.

Skmd
11 years ago
Reply to  Grant

Javier Baez not in the top 50? Or does he not have enough MLB at bats to qualify for this list? What is the cutoff?

Dovif
11 years ago
Reply to  Skmd

You will find baez in the top 5000 list after babe Ruth and Peter rose

Skmd
11 years ago
Reply to  Dovif

No idea what you mean, I imagine it’s supposed to be something amusing

David
11 years ago
Reply to  Skmd

There’s some confusion here that may need cleared up. This is Top 50 of the MLB and not Top 50 of the Cubs.

Thrasius
11 years ago
Reply to  Grant

Chris Archer with his contract?

Thrasius
11 years ago
Reply to  Thrasius

Nm, missed it.

Graham
11 years ago
Reply to  Grant

Brandon Crawford, perhaps?

TKDC
11 years ago
Reply to  Graham

Nope. He’s a free agent after 2017 and Dave already said there are no more of those guys.

John
11 years ago
Reply to  Grant

I’ll take a guess and say: (although after the top 6 you could re arrange in a lot of different ways)

1, Trout
2. Goldy
3. Harper
4. Sale
5. Machado
6. Arenado
7. Rizzo
8. Mccutchen
9. Bryant
10. Correra
11. Archer
12. Betts
13. Pederson
14. Gray
15. Cole
16. Bumgarner
17. Degrom
18. Donaldson
19. Posey
20. Klubrer

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago
Reply to  John

Correa/Bryant and Harper/Goldschmidt are the most interesting ones.

jpg
11 years ago

I thought Marte would be significantly higher than 25. He’s slashing .280/.330/.455 and is pacing to hit around 25 homers along with 30 steals. Add in the cheap contract and the fact that he’d be playing CF if he was traded to any one of about 25 other teams and I thought he could possibly sneak into the top ten.

e poc
11 years ago
Reply to  jpg

I thought he’d be a lot lower. Everything you said is true, plus his home park really hurts his raw numbers, yet at the same time I get the sense that people don’t really see him as a star or even a potential star, even though he’s only 26.

No one talks about him. He’s never made an allstar team, including getting bounced this year in favor of ryan braun and J Upton. He’s never made a final vote ballot either, and no one ever talks about him as a snub. No one talks about him at all. I get the sense that even Pirate fans think Neil Walker is the team’s second-best position player.

I could be totally wrong about this, but I don’t get the impression that he’s properly valued around the league. I get the feeling that if he was on the trade market he’d be seen as something like a super-tweener – not enough bat for a star corner guy and not a true CF.

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago
Reply to  e poc

Pirates fans love Marte. They fucking LOVE him.

jpg
11 years ago
Reply to  e poc

You’re probably right but to me it’s mystifying. The one thing that was holding back 2013 and 2014 Marte from being a star was his so-so power. His power has spiked to where it’s a legit element of his game now and he’s done it without compromising his ability to make contact (his O-Contact% is down 2% but his Z-Contact% and overall Contact% are identical to his career numbers). He is absolutely a star.

Nathaniel Dawson
11 years ago
Reply to  e poc

Not properly valued around the league?

You’ve polled GM’s to find out how they valuate him?

Eltorostrikesagain
11 years ago

Love Marte, such a perfect fit in left field for a team playing its home games at PNC park. A plus defender is a must out there, he covers craploads of ground and has a damn good arm. With the bat trending upward, I’d definitely consider him a star, he should have been an all-star over Braun and/or Upton.

Jackie T.
11 years ago

Does this mean Miguel Sano is a top-20 asset?

brian
11 years ago
Reply to  Jackie T.

Nope.

JJ Hixon
11 years ago

Not sure what’s less likely: an injured Marcus Stroman being in the top twenty, or Marcus Stroman not being mentioned at all.

brian
11 years ago
Reply to  JJ Hixon

He’s not going to be in the top 20. He’s really good. Probably not pitching this year and still only 130 MLB innings. Hurts his trade value as of today. If he’s really good to start next year, he’ll probably be on the list.

Jose Valentin
11 years ago

I’m curious as to why Syndergaard (#22) is ranked so much higher than Carlos Rodon (Honorable Mention). They came up around the same time so the team control is the same and they both have similar prospect pedigrees. Is this because you see Syndergaard as the far superior pitcher due to Rodon’s lack of minor league experience or command?

vivalajeter
11 years ago
Reply to  Jose Valentin

I haven’t seen Rodon pitch, but looking at the #’s it looks like command/control is a huge factor. It’s fairly easy to compare them because they were born a few months apart, they’ve thrown within 0.1 innings of one another this year, and team control is the same.

In the same number of innings (about 66 IP), Rodon has given up 6 more hits, given up 27 more walks (almost 3x more than Syndergaard), and he’s struck out 4 fewer batters. Syndergaard’s FIP/xFIP are about a full run lower than Rodon so far, and there’s an equally large gap in their projections for the rest of the year. Rodon might turn out to be the better pitcher, but he needs to show signs of it before he’s ranked near Syndergaard.

BurleighGrimes
11 years ago
Reply to  vivalajeter

This makes total sense to me. From a talent evaluation standpoint, Rodon and Syndergaard may be peers, and a given evaluator or a rebuilding team might prefer either Rodon or Syndergaard long term. Given how much more polished Syndergaard appears to be *right now*, his trade value would surely be higher if he was dangled to any win-now teams who need pitching; for instance, he’d basically immediately be the Royals or Blue Jays (sorry Jays fans) best pitcher today, while Rodon appears rougher around the edges though supremely talented in his own right.

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago
Reply to  Jose Valentin

It’s because Syndergaard has been awesome in the bigs, and Rodon hasn’t yet.

When Rodon is awesome in the bigs, his trade value will increase. He hasn’t been awesome yet, though.

Mark Shapiro
11 years ago

ahh… 2020 Marte team option… Neal Huntington learned from the best.

bob burger
11 years ago

Where are Cabrera and iglesias

Chris
11 years ago

So the year that Harvey and Jose lost to TJ, that’s gone correct? That counted as one of the years of control for the team? That’s brutal.

TKDC
11 years ago
Reply to  Chris

Is it as brutal as getting paid 25% of what you’re worth over 6-7 years?

Garrett
11 years ago
Reply to  Chris

Correct, ML DL time accrues service time.

Stevie Y
11 years ago

I won’t criticize Andrelton Simmons being ranked 30th here after reading that you admit that was difficult deciding what to do with him.

Jose Iglesias has a 60 point OBP and BA edge over the last 3 seasons (ranked 2nd among all shortstops in BA/3rd in OBP). Add in the fact Iglesias looks to also be 15-20 SB guy this season and still has 3 more arbitration years and is the same age as Simmons currently.

I’m not saying Iglesias should be ahead of Simmons but if Simmons is 30th than how’s Iglesias not even in on the list (which I’m assuming that he’s obviously not in the top 20).

brian
11 years ago
Reply to  Stevie Y

I don’t know. Injury risk? He did just miss all of last year. The fact that he’s never reached 400 PAs in a season before and per fangraphs defensive ratings at least isn’t close to Simmons defensively. All likely contributing factors.

pitnick
11 years ago
Reply to  Stevie Y

“Past 3 seasons” is only like, what, 200 games for Iglesias? Consensus seems to be that he’s playing over his head, BABIP will fall, and with it his value as a hitter since he has no power and doesn’t walk much. Projections have Simmons and Iglesias as roughly equal going forward, offensively.

And I’m not sure the 15-20 SB is helping much, since he’s getting caught at a below-average rate and hasn’t rated as a net-positive baserunner otherwise.

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago
Reply to  Stevie Y

Simmons is under team control for longer, on a friendlier contract.

Simmons has better defense.

Simmons doesn’t have a .350 BABIP.

Alex Cobb
11 years ago

Come on Dave…

Kyle
11 years ago

I think Rendon should be higher. The dude dealt with some freak ankle injuries in college which dropped his stock. He didn’t miss any games in 2013 nor 2014 due to injury. This year he had a freak injury to his knee on a play he’s made a 1000 times which kept him out. The Nationals were insanely careful with him though, which is why it appears that he’s a slow healer. His quad injury which is the latest this year is most likely a direct result of overcompensating due to the knee. Again, the DL is most likely a precautionary measure.

Darkstone42
11 years ago

Way to move up, Startling Mare!

Adam_Reynolds
11 years ago

Even as a Pirate fan, I’m a bit surprised Cole will be in the top 20, after missing part of last year with arm fatigue and other issues. That said, he has looked sick nasty so far in 2015.

phoenix2042
11 years ago

Age matters less for pitchers than hitters? I never knew that! Can you point me to where I can find more on this? I always assumed it was the opposite.

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago
Reply to  phoenix2042

TINSTAAP. If a guy has the stuff, he has the stuff. No matter how old he is.

Pitcher aging curves are fucking weird, while hitter aging curves generally make some sort of sense.

Nathaniel Dawson
11 years ago

Is that really true? Pretty much every aging study I’ve seen suggests pitchers age in a fashion very much like hitters.

KSL
11 years ago

I’m curious re: Yelich and Marte: did Dave take into account their ability to play CF for other teams?

Who is Zorbist?
11 years ago

Is Kevin Kiermaier seriously going to be left off this list? I know all of you missed on him as a prospect, but are you going to miss on him as a MLBer too? He posted 4 fWAR last year in 108 games, 3 fWAR already this year (23rd in MLB), and has 5.5 years of control left. Does he have to have an 8 WAR season to get noticed around here?

DUTCH4007
11 years ago

Who is the most likely trade candidate on this list so far? Todd Frazier, nobody? These types of players do not get moved often?