A Wonderfully Chaotic Game 7 Ends with the Dodgers as Repeat World Series Champions

Kevin Sousa-Imagn Images

If you’re a baseball fan — and presumably most people reading this are — Game 7 of the 2025 World Series was like the best buffet you’ve ever been to. There were no hotel pans full of lukewarm highlights sitting atop Sterno cans. This one had dramatic home runs, crazy defensive plays, a series of starting pitcher relief cameos, and even some questionable baserunning for flavor. Even Will Smith’s 11th-inning home run, which was the eventual difference, might have only been the fifth-most exciting moment in one of the best World Series games I’ve seen in my near half-century of existence.

We certainly started off with an entertaining matchup of starting pitchers. For the Dodgers, we got Shohei Ohtani, the player who has defined the 2020s. While Tyler Glasnow’s three-pitch save in Game 6 didn’t disqualify him — he appeared later in this game — Ohtani is tricky to use as a relief option since the Ohtani DH rule only works when he’s starting. On the other side, Max Scherzer got the start for the Blue Jays, and while the future Hall of Famer is nearing the end of his career and is no longer an ace, I wouldn’t dare get between Mad Max and a Game 7.

Ohtani started things off in the first with a liner to center, advancing to second on a Smith grounder after a terrific diving play by Vladimir Guerrero Jr. to prevent the Dodgers from getting two on with no one out. Ohtani then advanced to third on a Freddie Freeman fly out, but he was stranded after a Mookie Betts groundout to Andrés Giménez.

The Blue Jays followed the top of the inning with a quick threat of their own. George Springer, continuing to play through a painful oblique injury, singled on a 99-mph fastball, but Ohtani recovered to strike out Nathan Lukes and Guerrero. The latter strikeout came amidst a rather odd sequence that saw Springer running on the 3-2 pitch to Vlad before seemingly pulling up when he was 60% of the way to second. I’m not sure if it was a blown hit-and-run (which would itself be odd to call given Springer’s compromised state), or if Springer believed Guerrero had drawn a walk, or if he simply thought there were two outs instead of one. Whatever the reason, Springer was tagged out to end the inning on what was officially called a caught stealing:

Despite going on three days’ rest, Ohtani threw his heater a tick harder than he had in his last start (98.9 mph vs. 97.5 mph). He came in throwing a lot of fastballs and fewer secondary offerings than normal, and continued to do so with runners on base.

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Scherzer pitched two clean, efficient innings in the second and third, only throwing one first-pitch ball, a fastball inside to Tommy Edman. He needed just 18 pitches to get through those two frames, and didn’t allow any hits. It was as close to vintage Scherzer as he comes these days, but it still wasn’t the Scherzer of old. While he didn’t allow a baserunner, he wasn’t missing bats anywhere near as well as at his peak, and the Dodgers were rarely actually fooled by even his slider. Scherzer allowed eight ball hit into play with a triple digit exit velocity, so this was less domination than it was moxie or veteran grit or whatever other superlative normally gets you rolling your eyes.

Ohtani, on the other hand, had a much rougher time of it. He walked Bo Bichette on five pitches to lead off the second, then gave up a single to Addison Barger after the right fielder worked a full count. After getting Alejandro Kirk and Daulton Varsho to pop and fly out, Ernie Clement, now the record-holder for the most hits in a postseason, loaded the bases with a two-out single. A Giménez strikeout allowed Ohtani to escape the inning, but there would be no escape in the third.

Springer started things off with his second single of the game, advancing to second on a Lukes sacrifice bunt and to third on a wild pitch. Guerrero was intentionally walked after the wild pitch, a choice the Dodgers likely immediately regretted when Bichette, playing on a sprained PCL, blasted a three-run no-doubter to give the Blue Jays the lead:

Ohtani wasn’t especially wild, but his location was less sharp than usual to my eye (I made a note of this even before the Bichette at-bat), and the slider that Bichette crushed struck me as an objectively bad pitch. That was it for Ohtani, with Justin Wrobleski finishing off the frame.

Scherzer ran into serious trouble to start the fourth, allowing a double to Smith and a single to Freeman with no outs. After a Betts fly out, Max Muncy walked, which set up a Teoscar Hernández sac fly that scored Smith, a play that may have ended up quite notably worse for the Jays if not for a Varsho diving catch. Not to be outdone by his Gold Glove-winning teammate, Guerrero made his second terrific defensive play of the game, making a diving grab of an Edman liner for the final out. The Dodgers did get a run, but given their surprising offensive issues during the series, failing to do more damage after loading the bases with one out was a real disappointment:

With one out in the bottom of the fourth, Wrobleski almost hit Giménez, though the latter seemed to practically put his hand in the path of the pitch. Words were exchanged between the two when Giménez actually was hit by the next pitch, sending both benches and bullpens onto the field. But fisticuffs did not ensue, and order was restored relatively quickly.

After a one-out single in the fifth to Miguel Rojas, Scherzer’s night ended, with Louis Varland coming in to face Ohtani. Ohtani singled Rojas into scoring position, but Varland got the final two outs to prevent any insurance runs. Glasnow started the sixth for Los Angeles; Toronto only got a two-out single from Kirk, which came to naught.

Chris Bassitt came in for the sixth as the Dodgers again chipped away at Toronto’s lead. Betts drew a leadoff walk, then Muncy got his first hit of the game. Betts advanced on a grounder to Bassitt, and Edman got the Dodgers their second run with a sacrifice fly. Enrique Hernández kept the rally alive with another single, but Rojas grounded out to end the threat; one run was all they would get.

The Blue Jays got that run back in their half of the inning on a single by Clement and then a gapper double from Giménez to bring him in. Glasnow got Springer swinging through a 97 mph fastball to set him down, then retired Lukes and Guerrero to limit Toronto to just the one run.

Trey Yesavage, going on just two days’ rest after his stunning 12-strikeout performance in Game 5, was brought in for the seventh. Facing the heart of the Los Angeles order, Yesavage pitched very carefully, mostly nibbling the edges with sliders and splitters, and after a leadoff walk to Ohtani, a Smith flyout and a Freeman double play put the Blue Jays just six outs from their first championship in more than three decades. Emmet Sheehan came in and was effective, striking out Bichette and Varsho, with his only ding a fastball that Kirk took the other way into right for a single.

Yesavage was back out for the eighth. He got Betts to ground out before Muncy casually swatted a splitter that didn’t split off the right field stands to again make it a one-run game. After a Teoscar Hernández groundout, Toronto brought in closer Jeff Hoffman to try and get the final four outs. He got the first one, retiring Edman on a routine grounder to second.

Sheehan came out for his second inning of work, but another Clement hit, this time a double off a high fastball (this was the hit that set the postseason record) resulted in the Dodgers using the third member of their postseason rotation, Blake Snell, to finish off the eighth. Snell managed to do so without incident, punching out both Springer and Davis Schneider (pinch-hitting for Lukes) on breaking pitches; the stranded runner would loom large.

In the ninth, Enrique Hernández was unable to offer any of his usual October heroics, with Hoffman striking him out reaching for a slider. Next up was Rojas, who got his last hit before Saturday on October 1, during the Wild Card series against the Reds. But his second hit of the night came at just the right time, as he had what was likely the biggest moment of his career, lining a hanging Hoffman slider over the left field wall to tie the game:

In an age with what seems like a billion postseason games every year, it’s hard for individual moments to stand out, but I think the Rojas home run is one that ought to stick. Even though the game was generally pretty close, you could tell that the crowd tasted that championship, and was looking past Rojas to Ohtani on deck as the final boss. About one second into the ball’s flight, you could hear the crowds’ cheers turn into a near-unanimous groan. The change in the win expectancy graph was dramatic enough, but if we had a way to chart vibes, the ones in Rogers Centre would have resulted in a vertical line through the floor. Rojas turned the 2025 World Series around, and it’s a moment as striking as Carlton Fisk willing a homer to stay fair in 1975 through the power of fervent gesticulation, or Kirk Gibson pumping his arm during his home run trot taken on two bad legs in 1988. And it’s a pitch that, 30 years from now, Hoffman will still desperately wish to have back.

Hoffman managed to prevent any additional damage, and got the job done against two considerably better hitters, Ohtani and Smith, but the champagne and cigars were put on hold.

Snell returned in the bottom of the ninth, and after a Guerrero fly out, Bichette got things going with a single to left. Isiah Kiner-Falefa came in to pinch-run. Snell walked Barger, and in came the fourth and final starting pitcher for the Dodgers in Game 7, Yoshinobu Yamamoto, after throwing six innings and 96 pitches the night before.

Yamamoto hit Kirk in the hand with his second pitch, loading the bases with one out. With a long fly ball losing the game, Andy Pages and his very strong arm (98th-percentile arm strength in 2025) replaced Edman in center. Unfortunately for Blue Jays fans, there was another baserunning blunder, this one far more consequential than the incident in the first. Kiner-Falefa was extremely conservative with his lead off the third base bag, which proved disastrous when Varsho hit a hard grounder to Rojas at second:

So. Are we ready to talk about this lead?

Alex Stumpf (@alexjstumpf.bsky.social) 2025-11-02T04:23:14.337Z

Rojas stumbled slightly before his throw to the plate, and Smith was just barely able to get his foot down ahead of IKF to get the force out at home. It looked like we might get our first World Series championship walk-off replay review, but the out call was confirmed. Had Kiner-Falefa been tiny bit less passive (or had opted to run through the base, or at least slid head-first), the game would have been over.

The choice of putting Pages in center turned out to be prescient one pitch later, as he grabbed a very deep fly hit by Clement, one that he saw more clearly than Enrique Hernández in left. Unfortunately for Hernández, Pages practically flattened him like a cartoon steamroller, but Kiké was able to get up quickly and run off the field.

Seranthony Domínguez got the ball for the Jays in the 10th, and after Freeman flied out, the Dodgers loaded the bases after a Betts walk, a Muncy single, and then another walk, this one to Teoscar Hernández. In what was practically a rerun of the prior inning, Pages hit a hard grounder, and Giménez got the force at the plate to keep the game tied. Enrique Hernández grounded out to end the inning after Domínguez just barely beat him to first on a 3-1 putout, giving the Jays their second opportunity for walk-off magic.

Staying in the game, Yamamoto got Giménez on a chopper to second, and after allowing Springer to get to a 3-0 count on three pitches not even close to the plate, came back to strike him out flailing at a splitter. An unlikely Myles Straw walk-off homer did not occur, taking us to the 11th.

Shane Bieber came in for the top of the 11th, pitching on normal rest, and only needed three pitches to get Rojas and Ohtani out on grounders. However, Smith wasn’t tempted on two low-and-outside pitches, and on a 2-0 count, an utter disaster of a slider ended up in the left field stands, giving the Dodgers their first lead of the game. Bieber retired Freeman, but the damage was done:

Now, at this point, my biggest concern was that Dave Roberts would try to go for the cute storybook ending, and bring out Clayton Kershaw to close out the Jays and finish his career (the left-hander had been warming). But Roberts trusted the tired Yamamoto to continue fighting. With his command looking increasingly spotty, Yamamoto allowed a double to Vlad on a full count. Kiner-Falefa sacrificed bunted Guerrero to third base, and Barger walked on four consecutive splitters. Kirk came up with a chance to end the World Series with one swing of the bat. He did, though not in the way Joe Carter had, hitting an 0-2 splitter from Yamamoto into a double play.

And thus ended the 2025 season. The Dodgers are the first team to win consecutive World Series in the 21st century, bolstering the team’s dynasty claims. It’s a disappointing ending for the Blue Jays, but this was still a phenomenally successful season after they finished 2024 in last place in the AL East. Kershaw walks off into the sunset with another ring, and will certainly be giving a speech in Cooperstown in just over five years. And while it would be poetic for Scherzer to join him, he seems a lot more interested in coming back for 2026.

Was this one of the greatest World Series? I personally think so, but history always gets the final word.





Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.

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David Klein
8 months ago

If that game and series was a wrestling match it would be Steve Austin vs Bret Hart at Wrestlemania 13! You know even with all the stars Dodgers have imported it was homegrown players in Pages and Smith that came up so gosh darn huge with the catch by Pages where he wrecked Hernandez and the homerun by Smith. Schneider made so many bad decisions all series the bunt with IKF was another one that left you scratching your head. I thought Roberts made a bad move by sending Ohtani out for the third inning after barely escaping the second inning and it put them behind but they battled back.

What can you say about Yamamoto? Absolute legendary series and really entire postseason. He’s worth every penny they’re paying him.

Oh and I’m sure I’m not the only one that nearly fell off his couch on Rojas’ game tying homer.

One of the best series and game sevens I’ve seen up there with 91 and 2016.

Last edited 8 months ago by David Klein
frankenspock
8 months ago
Reply to  David Klein

Interesting point about their homegrown players ultimately making the difference. Technically that also includes Rojas, who originally came up in the Dodgers system before bouncing around the league.

Yamamoto was created in a lab by a mad scientist. You cannot convince me otherwise.

LordOfTexasMember since 2019
8 months ago
Reply to  David Klein

Which of the Blue Jays is passed out covered in blood

David Klein
8 months ago
Reply to  LordOfTexas

Hoffman

dangledangleMember since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  David Klein

Yamamoto’s performance reminds me of the Randy Johnson and Curt Shilling era of the Diamondbacks where they pitched in volume often on short rest and would come in as relief when necessary to close out a series. His performance is such a throwback. They should have a post season MVP in addition to the WS MVP just so he could win both. As bright as the other Dodgers this was his chance to really show his talent and it’s all the sweeter after a trying first year.

David Klein
8 months ago
Reply to  dangledangle

Yeah I’m a fan of a conn smythe type trophy for the best playoff performer like they have in hockey.

aviariesMember since 2024
8 months ago

Is it recency bias? Surely, but still I’m confident in calling this a top-3 game seven of all time. I think you could hear me screaming from 5 miles away after Rojas hit that home run.

Left of Centerfield
8 months ago
Reply to  aviaries

Joe Posanski puts it 5th all-time amongst 7-game series, behind 1975, 1991, 1924, and 2001. So definitely up there.

https://www.mlb.com/news/best-world-series-ever-c296869362

JohnThackerMember since 2025
8 months ago

Number 10 on that list, 1926, is the one this Series will always remind me of. Grover Cleveland Alexander pitching CGs in games 2 and 6, and then coming out of the bullpen with men on and pitching 2.1 IP to get the save against the Yankees Murderers Row.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  JohnThacker

With a massive hangover

david hMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  JohnThacker

Ah, yes, I love reminiscing about that 1926 World Series…

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 months ago

I would put this over 1924 and 2001 for sure. I do remember 1991, that was super intense, and it does seem unlikely anything will ever top 1975.

I would put this one at #3.

frankenspock
8 months ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

That feels right to me, but obviously not having video around of game 7s in the 20s and 30s or whatever is going to make it hard to directly compare. I think I can comfortably say this is in the top 3 of my lifetime, and I was born in the mid-60s.

frankenspock
8 months ago

I don’t agree with Posnanski. He’s rating them partially by how close the series was overall and docks this one a place or two for having a few non-competitive games. It feels like he started out to create one list and then decided to create a different list halfway through.

Old Washington Senators FanMember since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

I think we should let this game settle in before trying to rank it….the 1960 game 7 was pretty darn good….(and for me 2019)

PlacidoooMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

I think his rating there is flawed. All the Jays wins were by 4 or more runs, but those leads were all built in the 7th 8th innings. Those outcomes were a testament to the Jays batting strategy against the Dodgers’ top flight starting pitching – outlast the starter, keep the game close and strike hard against the bullpen – to their credit they executed this to perfection those games and put the Dodgers away 3 times. It made for dramatic games where the Jays came from behind in two of them. This made an especially poignant contrast with the times Yamamoto was on the hill, the Jays were pummeling top flight starters all post season and made the rest of Dodgers rotation (Snell in particular) look mortal.

hahigginsMember since 2018
8 months ago

2001 was incredible.

PlacidoooMember since 2025
8 months ago

It’s a tough sell for me to talk about any series before integration as “among the best all time” . To me the beauty of sport is its ever increasing level of competition. Baseball is no exception to this, the athletes of today are on average superior to the athletes of yesterday. Generational players and performances certainly stamd the test of time but their context reamins crystallized in the era in which they played. This was the best series I’ve witnessed, sure some of the games ended as lopsided affairs, but not a single one was decided until the later innings.
Game 7 was an all timer in any competition imo.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  Placidooo

This is something I have thought for a while with regards to players and “the greatest ever.”

There was this brief period of time where baseball was integrated and the NBA was still finding its footing—basically the 1950s through 1970s—that probably should be considered the “true” golden age of baseball. That was probably the last time baseball was culturally important enough that you couldn’t ignore it, even a little.

Football was more popular than baseball during the last half of that but it wasn’t as dominant. And in the 1960s and 1970s the *players* grew up when baseball was dominant, so you had a huge proportion of great athletes picking baseball.

But Joe Montana and Magic / Bird (and eventually Jordan) surpassed baseball in the public consciousness, and I think the 1980s were the first moment when you started to see baseball lose a lot (not just a little) of the best athletes to other sports.

mikejuntMember
8 months ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Baseball in the period you described probably had the highest % of the available US talent pool trying to play baseball, but now there are a variety of factors making the pool so much bigger: larger population in general, scouting/development expansion into Latin America, Korea, Japan, etc, that it is undoubtedly the case that not only are today’s MLB athletes objectively better athletes due to improvements in training and nutrition and health, but represent a higher percentile of overall human athletic capability than they did when the talent pool was mostly just the integrated United States.

And really the best example of that played in this series. Shohei Ohtani is one of the most gifted athletes alive today or who has ever lived. He is huge and strong, yet incredibly fast, and its quite likely that he could have excelled at virtually any sport he had chosen to spend his life on. His greatest comparables on an athletic level do not play baseball – they are people like LeBron James who also could have been world-class at virtually any sport they wanted. Do you really have any doubt that someone with Shohei’s physical abilities could have excelled as a basketball player, or in the NFL?

Think of how many of the best players in this year’s postseason are not American: Ohtani, Yamamoto, Guerrero.

If baseball had the same cultural relevance in the United States that it had in 1968, yes, the talent pool would be even better. But it’s still better today than it was in 1968 because it’s so much broader internationally.

Matthew VanWinkleMember since 2020
8 months ago

Posnanski’s list replicates something I’ve always found a little baffling: why isn’t there more love for the ’72 World Series? Six one-run games, played by embryonic versions of eventual powerhouses.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  aviaries

I am calling this a top 3 World Series of all time. Going to 7 games is probably the entry ticket to this competition, and you probably need an epic game 7 too. I think what this puts this over the top into that top echelon is that crazy, 18 inning game, but both of Yamamoto’s starts were also tense.

OtterMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I wasn’t around for 1975 and don’t remember 1991 all that well. The World Series that come to mind for me are 1997, 2001, 2011, 2016, and 2025 — but 2001 and 2025 are probably the best of the bunch. I might lean towards 2001 because there were three epic games compared to the two epic games this series gave us. We got career defining performances from a number of players too in both series Johnson and Schilling in 2001 meanwhile Yamamoto, Vald Jr, and Yesavage in 2025. And then the random players we’ll likely remember for what happened in those series — Tino Martinez, Scott Brosius, Byung-hyun Kim (for the wrong reasons); Miguel Rojas, Clement, and IKF (for the wrong reasons) (and maybe Barger?).

2025 didn’t really offer a bad game, Game 1 was a blow out in the end, but it took a while to get there and gave us a grand slam which is always fun. 2001 did have two total duds, which you can’t really say about 2025. Can’t go wrong picking either one.

frankenspock
8 months ago
Reply to  aviaries

I would have no problem including it in best game 7s ever. It’s top five at the very least. There have only been 41 WS game 7s ever, and most of them weren’t actually great games. You remember 2014 mostly for Madbum slowly suffocating the Royals, but that wasn’t an especially close or competitive game; the two teams combined for 5.5 scoreless innings before Bumgarner mercy killed KC. You remember 2011 as a great 7-game WS, but the actual game 7 was incredibly anticlimactic compared to the previous game. 2017 was similar, not much drama after an incredibly zany series.

Last edited 8 months ago by frankenspock
mgwalker
8 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

A lot of great 7-game series are remembered mostly for their game 6s.

BipMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  mgwalker

And in the case of 2017, its game 5

RobertMember since 2017
8 months ago
Reply to  mgwalker

2011 Rangers-Cardinals certainly springs to mind (what a dud of a game 7)

mikejuntMember
8 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

My opinion was that it may not be the actual best game 7 (in particular, the actual lead changes in 2016 are something this game didnt have much of), but as a 7 game series, with only 1 really uncompetitive game and with the 18 inning monstrousity, a bunch of tense games, and game 6 being what it was, it certainly deserves a spot among most absurd series overall.

PlacidoooMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  mikejunt

What it lacked in lead changes during individual games (not many, I grant, even the 18 inning game featured only 4 lead changes) it made up for with both teams trading wins and the series lead over the first 5 games. Also, the amount of insane defensive plays that took place has to count for something.

mikejuntMember
8 months ago
Reply to  Placidooo

I mean I agree its a top series overall, but I don’t think you can give it best game 7 when 2016 exists – another extra inning game with a lot of absurdly improbable events, but many of those events resulting in exchanges in the lead instead of ties.

Dave TMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

Eh, 2014 WS Game 7 ended with the tying run on third base, and a debate over whether the Royals’ third-base coach should have waved Gordon home on the 2-out hit/error play that got him to third.

The Royals had several 1-2-3 innings prior to that, so I’ll agree there wasn’t tension from traffic on the bases. But it was a 1-run game with the added factor of wondering just how long Bumgarner could keep going on 2-days’ rest, so I’d say it was plenty close and competitive to rate highly.

fredsbankMember since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  aviaries

Given the dodgers won, no, it is definitely not

david hMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  aviaries

Even if this game was in April, it would’ve been one of the best games I’ve ever seen.

roysanMember since 2022
8 months ago

I went to the 18 inning game and I’m stressed and tired but a happy Dodger fan who watched us lose to the Yankees in 77 – 78 and then cheated by the Asstroes in 2017.

frankenspock
8 months ago
Reply to  roysan

I know it’s easy to dump on the Evil Empire (sorry Yanks, it’s us now, go find a new identity), but I don’t think most fans get how deep the pain of 2017 went for most of us. I have a 2017 WS hat that I consider my unlucky hat. It sits on a shelf and I have very strict rules about how I can engage with it. There is pain and trauma there whether anyone wants to discredit us for “buying anyone you want.”

Losing two of these would have been difficult.

ackbar7Member since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

I am not a Dodgers fan, but I am going to call BS on this. The pain of a World Series loss can’t be that deep when your team then turns around and wins 3 of the next 8.

jtricheyMember since 2021
8 months ago
Reply to  ackbar7

Wrong when the pain involves cheating

greenaway55Member since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  jtrichey

100% correct. Losing is a part of life and baseball is a game of failure, it sucks to lose but it’s part of the bargain and it’s part of life and that humility that the sport teaches you is really valuable.

When a team cheats though those stages of grieving also get scrambled and the pain doesn’t dissolve in the same way. If extras had gone the other way last night sure I’d have been bummed but also hat tip to the Blue Jays, you all played a great series and are a super fun team. Bummer but hey, that’s life and you get over it.

2017? Different animal, scar tissue doesn’t feel the same.

mikejuntMember
8 months ago
Reply to  ackbar7

I can tell you that today I do not feel remotely bad when I remember the 2018 loss to the Red Sox, but I still actively despise basically every member of the 2017 Astros except George Springer who I grudgingly admit is a pretty good guy, and I still won’t watch replay clips from that series.

The 3 wins since obviously soothe any pain of not making it (though I will admit some residual sadness that some of the guys who were around then and not by 2020 never got a ring, like Rich Hill), but the way that loss happened – and the impact it had on a bunch of players, like Kershaw and Yu Darvish – stick around.

The cheating thing leaves it an open question in the mind: The 2018 Red Sox were clearly a better team than the 2018 Dodgers. It will always be a wonder what happens in 2017 if the game is played on an even playing field. That Alex Wood, paranoidly changing his signs every inning, was the only pitcher all postseason to succeed against the Astros in Houston is an unforgettable thing that never goes away.

norcalblueMember since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  mikejunt

Thanks for this reflection. In various settings, I have articulated similar thoughts to non-Dodger fans. Consistent with many of the comments here, there was not much empathy.

For me, more than loss of a WS, it was the impact on the careers of two great pitchers (Clayton and Yu) that I will never forget. The Astro players cheated fellow players—inexcusable.

Last edited 8 months ago by norcalblue
PlacidoooMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  norcalblue

Kershaw gets the headline there but Yu was the one who got did the most dirty. As you said, cheated fellow players.

PlacidoooMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  mikejunt

Yep to all of that. I remember watching the series in 2017 and thinking “shit this madness, what a slate of games!” . I remember game 7 when it became clear there was no comeback in the works, it sucked for a little bit, but you get over it because those two teams both played their hearts out but there has to be a loser – they had all honered the game with their effort.
Come to find out that wasn’t the case and well, thats just some low down bullshit there.
Springer is one of the few who have owned it, so some credit to him.
Though watching him this series you wonder why he even cheated back then, dude raked, injury and all.

fredsbankMember since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  ackbar7

The very concept of a dodgers fan being in pain about anything baseball related is hilarious. Like a chiefs fan claiming how hard it was to lose a couple of games this year.

3rdgenbruinMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  fredsbank

Hopefully you can see the difference. The dodgers hadn’t won anything since ‘88. Their rivals had won 3 WS recently. The Astros cheated. Dodger fans had to live through the Fox and McCourt years. No one knew was about to happen. You can’t understand that?

fredsbankMember since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  3rdgenbruin

Give me a call the next time they’re below .500, I won’t hold my breath

mikejuntMember
8 months ago
Reply to  fredsbank

Its 8 years later and those 8 years have been pretty good

At the time, the Dodgers were making their first WS appearance in 29 years after a very long succession of LDS and LCS failures.

And, really, the Red Sox loss in 2018 doesn’t sting. The cheating will always linger, though, because it made who was actually better that year a permanent open question.

Oh, Beepy.Member since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  fredsbank

I’m a Jays fan so I am hurting real bad man but if you’ve been a baseball fan even long enough to remember who Carl Crawford is then you remember a long period of time when the Dodgers blew hard ass. I think Dodgers fans of a certain vintage can relate 2017 to this without offending me.

fredsbankMember since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  Oh, Beepy.

The Dodgers have *three* sub-.500 seasons in the last 30 years, and won the NL West 15 times in the last 20. Spare me the sop story. There isn’t a living dodger fan on the planet who has know a “long period of time where the dodgers blew hard ass,” because that hasn’t happened since before WW2.

mikejuntMember
8 months ago
Reply to  fredsbank

I became a Dodger fan as a 7 year old in 1988

From 1989 to 2006, the Dodgers were below .500 5 times, made the playoffs 4 times and had a combined record in the playoffs of 1-12 in those appearances. The end of the O’Malley ownership and the Fox/Rupert Murdoch ownership were pretty bad.

Then there was a few good years in the early McCourt ownership (2006-2009), where they even made the NLCS twice, then they crashed during the divorce.

For the first 22 years of my fandom, the Dodgers were a middling franchise that was squandering enormous resources, alienating franchise icons and driving them to other franchises where they succeeded (Mike Sciosca, for instance), and topped out at a quick playoff exit.

Then came the Guggenheim ownership and a serious attempt to contend, and lots of playoff appearances that ended in the LDS and LCS. 2017 was a breakthrough; there used to be a Dodger website that kept a running timer of the last time the Dodgers did something great and it was actually a timer since Gibsons HR in 1988.

I spent about 15 years reading SABR websites thinking that the Dodgers should be able to be a Yankees juggernaut and watching them be inept and mediocre.

Fortunately, Mark Walter had the same idea I did. And now they’re that jiggernaut. In 2017 it legit felt like they might not make the WS again in my lifetime: they were consistently good and never great until that year.

So yes, it lingers.

Smiling PolitelyMember since 2018
8 months ago
Reply to  mikejunt

as a kid who moved to LA in 1990 and saw 5 RoYs but zero playoff wins until my 20s and Lima Time (RIP), I’m ok with the winning and recognize that all things are cyclical, whether we want to believe it or not

fredsbankMember since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  mikejunt

You guys would have a coronary if you had to be a fan of an actual bad team lmao. Absolutely pathetic.

JustinMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  mikejunt

I appreciate your perspective. It’s easy for the general population to lose sight of what it means to be a longtime fan of even a very good team, especially when that team’s dominance is a rather recent development, and so far removed from where it was previously.

Someone on here mentioned the Chiefs as a comp for the Dodgers. I’m not a Chiefs fan, but my grandfather was from their inception. He died somewhere during the Trent Green years. The notion they could ever be some zeitgeist-defining monolith of a franchise would have surely been inconceivable to him. I’m sure a lot of Dodger fans feel the same way about their current lot.

mikejuntMember
8 months ago
Reply to  Justin

Not any more, but there was definitely a period circa 2003-2006 when it seemed impossible the Dodgers would ever leverage their advantages into anything but sublime mediocrity.

The McCourt years get a lot of mention because of the bad press, but honestly, at least he tried before the divorce started. The Murdoch/FOX ownership made me stop following baseball. They tore the franchise down and crushed a lot of the best parts about it (like the very long continuity of former Dodgers who are around the team/stadium all the time), many of whom left the organization and flourished elsewhere (again I will mention refusing to give a managerial opportunity in the MINORS to Mike Scioscia, who gave up on them and went to the Angels to great success).

The Guggenhim ownership actively sought to rebuild that and thats why you have things like Kershaw’s long-running relationship with Sandy Koufax, and Kenley Jansen’s with Don Newcombe before his passing.

They’ve obviously managed to get long past that, and it’s a distant memory. But in 2017, that world series was the breakout – the team that actually looked like it might be the best in the league, and not only the first WS berth, but the first particularly competitive LCS series since 1988.

And it was a long and painful loss, and afterwords you learn that it wasn’t on the up and up.

Imagine what this Dodger team’s story is like if they win that series – instead of needing until last year to completely shed the “Can’t win a real WS just COVID stuff” garbage.

Also, that series would have gotten a lot of guys who carried a lot of weight in the return of the team to contention a ring, and who were gone by 2020 and haven’t got one.

Hyun-jin Ryu
Rich Hill
Yasiel Puig
Kenta Maeda
Adrian Gonzales
Andre Ethier
Yasmani Grandal

And it would have let Curtis Granderson retire with a ring.

I’ve had plenty of WS wins since. Those guys haven’t, and I don’t forget.

Last edited 8 months ago by mikejunt
yorobertMember since 2018
8 months ago
Reply to  ackbar7

You don’t get it. You may not agree with this, and you may not understand it, and you may have no sympathy because of all of the Dodgers success since then, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true.

To see Kershaw twice lose big leads, to see Darvish get hammered, to see Springer go berserk and win MVP, among others, then chalking it up to the unpredictability of baseball, only to find out that Houston had been cheating throughout the regular and post-season? Then to see the players go unpunished, and to hear the players and entire organization completely unapologetic?

Yes, the Dodgers have been a juggernaut, and yes, other fans are understandably envious and angry. But whether you understand it or not, Dodgers fans will never forgive the Houston players and organization for their cheating.

BipMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  ackbar7

I mean, in 2017, they still had not won since 1988 (and not in my lifetime) and the pain of that series made me permanently take a step back from being a baseball fan.

So is it still that painful now? No, but the damage was done.

BreadbakerMember since 2022
8 months ago

The Dodgers should hire me to yell invective at Dave Roberts. I had no rooting interest, but more of an academic one, but these were the two things I yelled at my TV:

  1. Why isn’t he pinch hitting for Rojas?
  2. Why doesn’t he bring in Sasaki instead of sticking with Yamamoto?

Without 20:20 hindsight, I still think they’re valid questions. But Dave Roberts may get a lot of flak, but he can pretty easily deflect it with three rings as a manager.

anthonydwMember since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  Breadbaker

haha…not so much on Sasaki, but I was right there with you on Rojas until….oh?!

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  Breadbaker

Plus 2004 so he’s basically a HoF figure already

frankenspock
8 months ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

One legendary WS win as a player, three as manager, best W-L record alltime of any active manager, ten straight playoff appearances, nine division titles. Yeah, I think he’s in the convo now.

And I think fans of other teams became so comfortable calling him an idiot when stuff didn’t work out that acknowledging he might actually be a good manager is a bitter pill to swallow. I had the same reaction to Doc Rivers winning a title in Boston. He seemed like a completely incompetent coach until he didn’t.

PhilMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

I think Roberts isn’t a great tactician. But I think he is very very good at the soft skills, he comes across as a brilliant man manager – the Dodgers have had some big on (and off) field issues during his tenure, yet he’s never let the clubhouse spiral, or seemingly get distracted. So yes, he’s going to be a HoF because he had an exceptionally talented rosters – but he’s going to the HoF because he worked very well with those rosters.

PC1970Member since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  Phil

Sort of reminds me of Joe Torre in that regard. Torre was not a great tactician, but, just like Roberts he kept those teams engaged & being in NY, the attention/press is to another level, but, those teams never let it get to them.

& that’s where a guy like Roberts comes in- I’d love to hear a behind the scenes on the Kershaw “hatgate” this year & how Roberts kept it from ballooning into something bigger. Heck, he may not even agree with Kershaw, but, that’s not Roberts job..it’s to figure out a way to keep his team focused on the task at hand.

mikejuntMember
8 months ago
Reply to  PC1970

Another reasonable example is how he admitted last year in the NLCS that he basically picked an argument with Manny Machado being expressive about something because he was looking for a way to get his team’s intensity up to the level the Padres were at, and it worked basically instantaneously.

mikejuntMember
8 months ago
Reply to  Phil

I know people criticize Roberts’ tactical decisionmaking – and I have in the past – but I think that it’s less accurate than it used to be. Circa 2017-2019, a lot of the ‘bad Roberts moves’ were cases where he did something really unusual that he would never have done in the regular season – often starting pitchers in relief. He did this in his first season, in 2016 NLDS G5, and it worked, and he’s done it many times since – unsuccessfully with Kershaw, Scherzer, and successfully with Julio Urias, Walker Buehler, and now his entire staff. The Dodgers have won 3 WS under Roberts and all of those series have ended with a member of their starting rotation on the mound.

In more recent years, what I see is Roberts being criticized for decisions that don’t work out that are exactly the same decisions he’s made all year in the same ways. And the thing is that those things mostly do work out and I mostly expect him to do them and rarely think they’re particularly wrong (trusting Treinen this postseason probably is the best example of one that I thought was wrong).

Roberts is probably the quintessential modern manager. I think he has the job as long as he wants it. He is first and foremost a communicator who gets guys to buy into everything in the name of team success. From his teams in 2018/2019 that had a ton of guys who played lots of positions and platoons where guys would change their positions 2-3-4 times in a single game (giving us lines like Chris Taylor 2B-SS-CF-LF), to getting a team full of legiitmate stars and future Hall of Famers to be so focused on the team result, he is exactly what modern, statistically-oriented front offices want – someone who gets players to buy into their roles, and also to the coaching and data that are coming from the player development people. How many times have the Dodgers acquired a player and told them they want the player to change something? This stuff happens constantly, and it does so because Roberts has built a culture where everyone is open to – and seeks out – that kind of feedback, even the best players on the team.

At this point the only thing that keeps him out of the HoF as a manager is choosing to retire early, but I doubt he’ll do that. He’s not part of the Friedman/Warner Key Personnel Clause in Shohei’s contract that lets him opt out, but I legitimately think that Friedman will employ Roberts as long as Roberts wants him to.

Last edited 8 months ago by mikejunt
PC1970Member since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  mikejunt

Even then I think he may get in if he quit tomorrow and never managed again.

Every manager with 3 WS titles is in.

Roberts also has the highest winning percentage of any MLB manager ever with more than 600 wins.

Thar said, that’s not going to happen, he’s 52 or 53, so he’ll be around for a long time, i think.

King CMLMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  PC1970

A trained monkey could achieve a higher win percentage with that front office and its resources. Anyone who leaves Ohtani in for the third when he’s in “Rick Ankiel after too many greenies” is a moron. Use Yamamoto then and the game likely isn’t close. Open your eyes lol

Last edited 8 months ago by King CML
PhilMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  King CML

I know you’re on a massive troll bender on this article, but, no, a trained monkey couldn’t do what Dave Roberts does. I didn’t think you could surpass your “Mariners fan thinks other team is bad at winning game 7s” take from earlier, but “manager was stupid because he didn’t put in the guy who threw 96 pitches the day before in the third inning” has, I think, beaten it.

King CMLMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  Phil

If you think Roberts is remotely competent, scroll to 7:20 here and explain to me why Freddie is where he is: https://youtu.be/SxpZnYeLO00

I don’t watch baseball much because I’m afraid it’d make me as deluded as most of the rest of this comment section, but two data points is enough

PhilMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  King CML

Because with runners on 1st and 2nd, no outs, Freeman is defending against the bunt. While Kim has some pop, he’s not a huge power threat – and Kim had sac bunted 5 times that season, and also was substantially better than league average at getting an infield hit. Seems a pretty reasonable decision.

King CMLMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  Phil

Really good explanation! That must have been his thought process.

But mine is better: you’re up by 2, not 1; the DP is on; and defending against the bunt with 1 out and not 0 is leaving you way too exposed to what happened, a grounder that finds the massive hole you’ve left in your infield.

It’s a little less meritless than leaving Ohtani in but it’s still really bad, IMHO

Last edited 8 months ago by King CML
BipMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  PC1970

Yeah this Dodgers team will likely go down as one of the all time great teams and the manager who was with them for all of their most important moments is going to be in the hall of fame, guaranteed.

norcalblueMember since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  mikejunt

As usual, your assessment makes great sense. Thanks

norcalblueMember since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  Phil

This is a mature and fair take. My sense is that he has been (and was in this series) an absolutely horrid decision-maker with bullpen management and lineup construction. If the Dodgers lose this series there would be numerous other examples of impulsive, ill-considered decisions that failed and/or were counterproductive. Winning provides a fig leaf for all of that.

That said, his players love him and he clearly has kept the clubhouse not just together, but inspired.

Last edited 8 months ago by norcalblue
RobertMember since 2017
8 months ago
Reply to  Phil

And, relatedly, he’s got a good sense for his guys

PlacidoooMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

Imo his strongest suit is people/soft skills and he’s probably the best in the game at that. He’s also really good at working the media.
He obviously benefits from some great rosters but has done a tremendous job in multiple seasons where his pitching staff was a shambles for months at a time.
I’m not sure he’s particularly good at integrating rookies particularly position players into the roster.
On the whole I wouldn’t go out looking for a new manager for any reason. It ain’t broke why fix it?
Though I wouldn’t mind applying more of what the Jays in terms of contact. Ernie Clement is a monster buried in the 8 hole.

sandwiches4everMember since 2019
8 months ago
Reply to  Placidooo

Ernie Clement is on the hot streak of his life. The postseason has a way of amplifying the inherent chaos of baseball and distort one’s thinking.

He’s a great piece to have: a BABIP-dependent ~league average hitter with defensive chops at multiple positions. But if you think he’s a true-talent 171 wRC+ hitter…I don’t know what to say to that.

frankenspock
8 months ago
Reply to  Breadbaker

I mean, he did the job he got paid for. He knows more baseball than the people in the comment sections criticizing him whether most of us will admit it or not. Not every decision works out and when they don’t they look like exploded test rockets. But he maybe doesn’t get enough credit for pulling levers in the right order. Two years in a row now. Maybe people should start paying attention.

PC1970Member since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

& a lot of times there are things behind the scenes that us keyboard warriors may not know.

Maybe someone isn’t available or is hindered in some way due to some personal situation or nagging injury that he can’t discuss, so the options aren’t what we think they are.

PhilMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  PC1970

Related to you mentioning managers also having to consider things that aren’t publically kmown, I thought it was very classy of the Blue Jays reliver(s) who put a 51 on their hat, in support of Alex Vesia who missed the World Series due to personal reasons. I hope everything is ok for Alex, his wife, and their family.

BreadbakerMember since 2022
8 months ago
Reply to  Phil

Yeah, if both teams hearing enough detail that we don’t know, have the reaction, “this guy needs to be with his family and we need to support him”, you know it’s got to be pretty serious.

Adam SMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  Breadbaker

Same. And I still don’t think those were good decisions. But they worked, so all will be forgotten. We’d be asking that second question forever if the 9th or 11th goes just a bit differently.

PlacidoooMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  Breadbaker

No, Rojas was actually swinging the bat better than anyone on the bench. Pages, Kim, Rortvedt and Dean were all basically glove only at that point, platoon advantage be damned. Dave went with the vet who had a couple knocks already.
Roki looked shaky in game 6, threw a fair amount of pitches. Hadn’t looked good previously on a back to back.
Dave rode with the literal best pitcher on the planet for another inning and helped cement the foundation of a modern legend.

carterMember since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  Breadbaker

The Yamamoto thing still seems crazy to me, regardless of the outcome. If Rojas gets rid of the ball a touch slower, or IKF gets there a touch faster, or the collision ball falls…I think we are singing an entirely different tune. It worked out, and honestly Sasaki being a rookie who struggled to find the play in the game prior might have played into his decision.

aviariesMember since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  carter

If the Jays walked off Yamamoto then the blame might go to Doc for trusting Snell too much, but no one would ever blame him for a fast runner beating a play at the plate by a nanosecond. And if they did they’d be extremely stupid to.

RobertMember since 2017
8 months ago
Reply to  carter

I’m not sure how much Sasaki had and there was a lot of reason to be worried about how he’d throw in the moment.

roysanMember since 2022
8 months ago

The best Series in history. Wacky plays, great plays, Yamamoto historic pitching, many records were broken.

King CMLMember since 2025
8 months ago

As a sports fan, this was the best game I’ve seen since the 2022 World Cup final.

As a Mariners fan, this was a huge relief.

As a fantasy enthusiast, I have a few thoughts:

Firstly, it blows my mind teams spend hundreds of millions on the best players and the most sophisticated metrics and then let their teams be managed by what might nicely be termed “incompetents.” I thought Dan Wilson was the biggest dolt in baseball until I saw Dave leave Ohtani in against the top of the lineup for the third. The Dodgers were good enough to win despite their skipper spotting the opposing team a 3-run dinger for no reason. The M’s weren’t so lucky.

Secondly, the BJs and their fair-weather fans sure were cocky for … well, I can’t really say why. Their strategy of getting on base and playing D was well-done but also a platitude 25 years ago. Their roster is underwhelming for their payroll. Apparently $255M isn’t enough to purchase a decent reliever (or starter, for that matter).

Behind all the swagger of Vlad Jr. was the 50th-best player in 2025 by WAR, personifying his team’s bloated self-estimation. Springer is a proven cheater who “miraculously” had a resurgence at age 35 after five years of scuffling. Gimenez somehow thinks someone would throw at him after posting a blistering -11.7 runs over replacement this season.

Still, they must be doing something right to beat two clearly better teams and nearly a third. Yesavage is already their best pitcher (not that it’s saying much). Schneider was far better than his counterparts all postseason (saying even less). Kirk, Lukes, Clement, and (sighhh) Bichette are all awesome.

Lastly, fans of other sports will know this was a more characteristic Game 7 in Toronto than the ALCS. It suited them

Last edited 8 months ago by King CML
King CMLMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  King CML

You guys don’t know much about this game, do you? Stick to hockey—pun intended

Last edited 8 months ago by King CML
Another Old GuyMember since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  King CML

I have to comment here. To my knowledge there is one player on the Jays roster that was born in Canada. I sure would like to have whatever you were (are?) drinking … then again maybe not.

King CMLMember since 2025
8 months ago

Yeah, it’s not like they have a thing for getting guys whose dads played for them 30 years ago or anything … I don’t mind the players (minus the massively overhyped and overpaid Vlad Jr., the replacement-level Gimenez who thinks he’s prime Altuve, and George “Oscar the Grouch” Springer)

frankenspock
8 months ago
Reply to  King CML

This is just bitter and sad, bud.

King CMLMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

If you want positive musings a trained monkey could make, there’s always Roger Angell or John Smoltz

loria_estefan
8 months ago
Reply to  King CML

mentioning roger angell and john smoltz in the same breath is…something

OtterMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  King CML

I’m sure the Mariners don’t have any fair-weather fans who aren’t cocky.

Vlad was out of his mind outstanding this postseason and if you refuse to recognize it.

As for the rest of this… I feel bad for you.

Philip ChristyMember since 2026
8 months ago
Reply to  King CML

Calling out someone’s else’s “bloated self-estimation” here is beautifully ironic

L. Ron Hoyabembe
8 months ago
Reply to  King CML

This is Silky Johnson level hating, well done.

Pancho21Member since 2018
8 months ago

Ever since Game 4 of the 2024 LDS against the Padres, the Dodgers have played like true Champions., by being the only team in Baseball that has won all their “must win games”.

PlacidoooMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  Pancho21

Indeed. After getting trounced early for 2 consecutive post seasons the Dodgers proceeded to shutout the Padres over the final two games and crush the Mets, Yankees (after g1) / Reds, Phillies (kinda) , Brewers and finally play a riveting series again vs the Jays to the tune of 2 WS wins.

sandwiches4everMember since 2019
8 months ago
Reply to  Placidooo

The only teams crushed on that list were the Reds and the Brewers.

  • You generally don’t get credit for “crushing” an opponent when a series ends 4-2 including a game you lost by 6.
  • You didn’t crush an opponent when you won a game on a walkoff HR when you were down, retire the last two hitters with the go ahead runners on base in the 9th in the next game, then later on lose by 7 and need an all-time meltdown inning to catch up in a game you were down 5-0.
Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
8 months ago

Yamamoto would have been behind Kershaw and Sasaki on my list. It turned out ok but I still think it was the wrong move

King CMLMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

Are you saying the guy who kept Ohtani in for the third might not know which pitcher to put in??? Crazy!!!

NATS FanMember since 2018
8 months ago
Reply to  King CML

I don’t know… it’s Ohtani! Everyone wants to see him make more history.

fangraphsreaderbutwokeMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  NATS Fan

He came up zero in Game 7

King CMLMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  NATS Fan

You don’t need to have played fantasy for the last eight years to know Ohtani sometimes struggles to throw strikes and that leaving him in against that part of a good lineup when you have other options is obviously a terrible idea. Anyone with half a brain would’ve pulled him after he loaded the bases in the second and barely escaped. Keeping him was a bigger and more egregious blunder than Dan Wilson’s inexplicable insertion of a fourth-best reliever who threw two the previous day. Why do I even have to type this?

Last edited 8 months ago by King CML
Bud SmithMember since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  King CML

I don’t know why you feel like you have to type this, but I think we all wish you wouldn’t

FrodoBeck
8 months ago
Reply to  King CML

You’re saying other really stupid things all over these comments but this comment is spot on

Ohtani in the third was easily the worst managerial mistake of the night.

frankenspock
8 months ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

Yeah but it wasn’t. So.

OtterMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

Sasaki threw a lot of pitches in G6 and wasn’t all that effective. It was a risk to go to Yamamoto over Sasaki, but I get it. Kershaw would be getting too cute by half, though I think he was next in line if it went to 12.

Dmjn53
8 months ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

I don’t really know how you go to either of those guys. Kershaw has hardly pitched this postseason and Sasaki had been extremely shaky all postseason with a ton of walks with no Ks

They had the best pitcher in the series in the bullpen in Yamamoto, and they correctly those to use him

RobertMember since 2017
8 months ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

Sasaki was mostly quite good but that was a very high stress the night before for him and relieving is quite new to him

RobertMember since 2017
8 months ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

Kershaw seems to have had nothing all playoffs so you can’t bring him in. Sasaki tossed 27 fairly shaky pitches the night before and is young and untested in that role. I think it’s the right play

RICHARD MELLMember since 2020
8 months ago

Has there been many instances where the WS winner got outscored for the series? Not saying they played perfect baseball, but the Jays did enough to win this one. I think they were the better team this series and the post season. I would guess this is up there for worst defeats. Entertaining series, but it kinda frustrates me as a fan that the higher payroll team managed to win despite being outscored. I don’t mind admitting the other team was better and the Dodgers are a great team, but not sure I could say they were this series.

Nutting TusihereMember since 2017
8 months ago
Reply to  RICHARD MELL

1960, Yankees scored 28 more runs than Pirates, but lost in seven

Last edited 8 months ago by Nutting Tusihere
Dave TMember since 2025
8 months ago

Yeah, highest run differential ever in a World Series. It’s a bit of World Series trivia that the team on the positive side of that run differential lost the World Series.

Something similar almost happened in 2001. As of the 9th inning of Game 7, Yankees were in position to win despite a -21 run differential.

At the other end of the spectrum, the 2005 White Sox won in a sweep with only +6 run differential.

frankenspock
8 months ago
Reply to  RICHARD MELL

It’s happened many, many times. More than 20.

RICHARD MELLMember since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

I wouldn’t have guessed 20, but I guess when you consider the amount of WS that have been played 20 might not be that high. Doesn’t make the loss hurt less, but it’s not like this has only happened a handful of times.

FletcherMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  RICHARD MELL

Speaking as an LA fan, the Jays were almost certainly the better team in the series. I think the Dodgers had better sequencing luck and were bailed out by a historic performance from Yamamoto.

RICHARD MELLMember since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  Fletcher

I see things similarly. I think this was my first post and I was expecting to get more down votes. In a weird way, I would feel a little better if the Jays got bullied. I don’t care that the Dodgers spend money, but it’s tough to stomach seeing the higher payroll team get the sequencing, variance, etc on top of it.

mikejuntMember
8 months ago
Reply to  RICHARD MELL

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve watched the Dodgers lose in the playoffs because they had more talent and didn’t get the sequencing/timing/random bad position player who transforms into Babe Ruth for 5 games thing going for them, but I can tell you that the number of times they’ve had that part go their way is 3, and those are the 3 times they won the World Series.

I have said for a lot of years that the MLB postseason and world series is not won by the best team – rather, it pre-selects for a pool of very good teams, and then the luckiest good team wins. I’ve watched a lot of Dodger teams that were not only clearly the better team on the field but the best team in the league (some of them, among the very best teams of all time, winning 104+ games) lose in the playoffs.

Which is all by way of saying that this is actually what it usually feels like to lose in the NLCS or World Series; its pretty rarely as clear-cut as 2018 when the Red Sox were just the best team and looked like it in every playoff game they played and when you lose to them you can just kind of only shrug and go well yeah.

PlacidoooMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  mikejunt

Solid take. Though I’d say it was clear the Dodgers had the best Pitching and the Jays had the best hitting coming into the series – judging by their performance in earlier rounds. What we got was a great series in which luck played a bit of an outsized role.
2024 NLCS and WS felt like the Dodgers would win them 10/10 times.
This Series feels like a coin flip at best.

sandwiches4everMember since 2019
8 months ago
Reply to  Placidooo

You have a very different memory of reality than the one we live in. If you swap a Freddie Freeman HR with a Volpe HR, the Yanks go into game 5 up 3-1 in the series. That’s not a 10/10 times series, man.

Rick MMember since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  mikejunt

I don’t necessarily disagree.I don’t go into any baseball playoff series expecting to win. You could put the Pirates in and they could win a round. That said, you had 20 and 24 to fall back on if 2025 didn’t go the way it did. I don’t have that option. While I think the Jays are decently run and the farm seems to be improving, I doubt they will have as many bites at the apple as the Dodgers have had recently. The AL East is too competitive for that. If this team had won in any of the seasons from 2015 on, the game 7 loss probably stings for a day or two and i move on, but they haven’t, so this might last a little longer.

I would have liked to have seen the team get the payoff that I think they earned. Yeah, there’s some things they could/should have done better, but if you replay this series the Jays probably win 7/10 times? If this played out against the Reds or anyone else besides LA, I would still be annoyed it played out the way it did, but not as much since any of those teams haven’t gotten a ton of breaks either. Just feels unfair that the team that doesn’t need extra help to win, got it. Not trying to discredit any of the Dodgers players for making said plays either, just to be clear. They certainly deserve credit for making them.

mikejuntMember
8 months ago
Reply to  Rick M

My point is just that having followed this very rich and very well resourced team for quite a few years in which they frequently didn’t win it, the reality is that *every world series winner gets a ton of breaks*, because the MLB playoffs are not about the best team winning- they admit only good teams, and then the luckiest good team wins. That is just always how it is, every time. No one ever wins the World Series while being unlucky. It is just not how it works.

It always feels this way. Every time.

I know that’s not a whole lot of consolation, but it’s all I’ve got. It always feels like this. It will always feel like this. It is not a good time. I’ve been on this train before.

I’m sorry.

To be totally honest with you, my usual approach every year the Dodgers DONT win is to ignore baseball entirely until about mid-January the following year. I recommend it. It takes a while to heal and nothing of import is going to happen between now and then – just relitigating the things that feel bad.

Its what losing the world series feels like.

mikejuntMember
8 months ago
Reply to  Fletcher

Im not sure I agree. The Blue Jays had more hitters who were performing respectably, and they played great defense.

They had *a lot* of baserunning errors. Like really an incredible number – at least one major baserunning gaffe per game, many of which cost them very directly. Just to name a few:

Springer’s “CS” In g7
Kiner-Falefa’s .. whatever that was on 3rd base
The DP to end G6
The Bichette/Barger doing exactly the same thing (Pickoff when they thought it was ball 4)

A bunch of these were really critical plays.

The Dodgers timed their hitting well, but a most of their bad pitching was isolated to a couple games.

Last night, really, the Jays were outplayed in like 10 of the 11 innings. They scored 1 run and failed to execute on a bajillion opportunities outside of the Bichette HR. The Dodgers also failed to execute on many opportunities, but they also got some of them.

FletcherMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  mikejunt

You aren’t wrong about the baserunning miscues, especially since they usually seemed to occur at the worst possible moments for the Jays.

But the Jays had a +8 RD for the series, and all three of their wins were comfortable. Not sure what baseruns would say there, but anecdotally as a viewer, they Jays offense was much more imposing.

And I don’t agree the Dodgers outplayed the Jays for 10/11 innings in game 7. To me (as an LA fan), we had no business winning that game but just about everything broke right for us, especially in the last 3-4 innings. I figure what you see as the Jays failing to execute I see more as sequencing luck.

This isn’t to begrudge the Dodgers at all, they obviously played well enough to win and I’m still in awe at what Yamamoto was able to do in this series, and the playoffs as a whole. And as someone who lived through the often brutal playoff defeats in 2008/2009, 2013-2019, and 2021-2023, it’s been great to see the small sample noise work out in their favor the past couple of years.

PlacidoooMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  Fletcher

As a fellow fan, I agree with this take. Their lineup wore us out, it really cost them Bichette couldn’t run and their bench couldn’t hit. Yama was on another level and was the only pitcher to master the Jays all post season. I hope the Jays keep their core and those dudes stay healthy, exciting team to watch.

JohnThackerMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  RICHARD MELL

The Braves outscored the winning team in the 1991, 1992, and 1996 World Series. In 1992 they outscored the Blue Jays and lost in 6 games.

JohnThackerMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  JohnThacker

The Braves also outscored the Phillies in the 1993 NLCS. They outscored the Marlins in the 1997 NLCS. It wasn’t until 1998 that the ’90s Braves were actually knocked out of the playoffs in a series where they scored fewer runs, and three of those playoff series they lost in six games.

Last edited 8 months ago by JohnThacker
ichiro262Member since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  RICHARD MELL

Don’t agree with the “Blue Jays played better” argument. Run differential is a bad measure for a seven game series these days given how much mop-up reliever dynamics create blowouts that might have been much closer otherwise.

There are more types of luck too than just run differential. LOB, balls that die on the warning track, soft grounders that find a hole.

Baseball is so luck-driven that even significant talent mismatches in the playoffs are rarely given worse than 60/40 odds. Seven games just isn’t usually enough to determine which team played better by any measure other than who won.

The Blue Jays and Dodgers played about the same quality of baseball over a 7-game series decided by one run in extras. And the Dodgers won. That’s it.

Willians Astu-stu-studilloMember since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  RICHARD MELL

Just last year, the WS was extremely close by run differential. The Yankees actually outscored the Dodgers in regulation. The only thing that stopped this from being true two years in a row was that the Yankees scored too many runs in the first nine innings of game 1.

snakestl
8 months ago

I hope Kersh takes Pride in the way his career ended.

Roger McDowell Hot Foot
8 months ago
Reply to  snakestl

WIth his shirt off, spurting all over a roomful of athletic men after telling them how much he loves them? I think he does.

Philip ChristyMember since 2026
8 months ago
Reply to  snakestl

I’ll be more succinct here:

Fuck Clayton Kershaw.

fredsbankMember since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  Philip Christy

Agreed. Thank god that maga loser is gone.

deuce26
8 months ago
Reply to  fredsbank

Probably 80% of MLB players lean right. Who are you rooting for?

FrodoBeck
8 months ago
Reply to  snakestl

To the very end of his career, complete nobodies on fangraphs can’t get him out of their heads.

Hilarious

raregokusMember since 2022
8 months ago
Reply to  FrodoBeck

Even more hilarious is being the nobody on FanGraphs defending the guy.

FrodoBeck
8 months ago
Reply to  raregokus

In general, I’d like to think someone who finds their way to fangraphs is smart enough to distinguish between “reads an article about the Dodgers and goes out of their way to bring up Kershaw unprompted” and “sees a comment specifically about Kershaw and comments in response to it”, but you’ve proven me wholly incorrect.

I can’t imagine what it must be like to go through your day to day, best wishes

raregokusMember since 2022
8 months ago
Reply to  FrodoBeck

Given that your mind is apparently blown by the concept of someone replying to your comment, it seems like you struggle to imagine many things.

FrodoBeck
8 months ago
Reply to  raregokus

The words you’re saying don’t make any sense, I urge you to find help

raregokusMember since 2022
8 months ago
Reply to  FrodoBeck

I love 2025, when everyone you disagree with about baseball apparently has severe mental disabilities. Grow up, man.

JimmieFoxxalorianMember since 2020
8 months ago

Phenomenal series! One of the best I’ve seen in a very long time. Sad that someone had to lose such a hard fought and close Game Seven. So many close plays that could’ve gone the other way if an inch here, or a millimeter there, was different. The Pages catch. The slide at home plate when Smith barely got his foot back down for the out. The bang bang Betts double play that ended everything so suddenly. And dramatic moments were plenty. The Bichette homer that emphatically put the Bluejays in position to win. The Rojas homer off one of the best closers on the planet, to keep the Dodgers hopes alive. The Smith homer in extras to take the lead. Yamamoto pitching in relief for the win after starting Game Six the night before.

Words don’t truly describe very well the many changes in momentum and pitch-to-pitch intensity of this epic showdown. We’re gonna remember this series for a long time, it was glorious. It was beautiful. It was baseball

frankenspock
8 months ago

I know it will take decades maybe before some fans can acknowledge the level the Dodgers have played at not just this year but last year as well, but the way they don’t crack, they don’t flinch, they just keep making professional baseball plays as the game and series wears on is something remarkable. And they’ve done it two years in a row now, not annihilating their opponents so much as they slowly smother them to death. They just feel inevitable. I can’t remember the last team that felt this inevitable. Outside of MLB, maybe the Chiefs’ recent run, definitely the Patriots at their peak. The Warriors in the NBA. You have them down on the mat and they are looking up at you grinning.

mikejuntMember
8 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

Its pretty funny to me that the Dodgers had so many historic regular seasons come to naught and then have won 2 in years when the regular seasons were just good and not on the list of best regular seasons in NL history, but also, that’s just how baseball is a lot. And I think this one makes it really clear that the Friedman era Dodgers are a historic thing

They’ve now won 3 WS in 6 years, and also in that span they have put up long-term regular season results that haven’t happened in MLB since integration (in particular, the stretch where over like 3.5 seasons worth of games, they won literally 2/3 of their baseball games, just literally averaging a 108 win pace for 4 seasons)

PlacidoooMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

The last team to do that was the Padres. The Jay were up 3-2 but their season would depend on beating Yamamoto in each of the next two games. They did much more than those Pads. Certainly enough to win. I guess this is what it feels like to be the Cardinals circa 2011, to wield Devil Magic that lodges a ball dead for the first time in that field’s existence on what would have been the run scoring double to spark a world series winning rally. I still can hardly believe what I witnessed at the end of the last 2 games.

raregokusMember since 2022
8 months ago

101 days till pitchers and catchers report

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  raregokus

Yamamoto will be ready

frankenspock
8 months ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

Yamamoto will be both pitching and catching.

angtughpak46Member since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

Yamamoto will be ready

He’s ready right now!

David Klein
8 months ago
Reply to  raregokus

Way too many days I miss baseball already even though my team had a hugely disappointing year. I stopped watching hockey 6-7 years ago and football over a decade ago and I mostly stopped caring about the nba in the 90’s. Oh well from an entertainment purposes Tubi, Pluto tv, Netflix, and my family will tide me over.

cashgod27Member since 2024
8 months ago

This game had the fourth-biggest (Kirk double play), fifth-biggest (Smith home run), and twelfth-biggest (Rojas home run) plays in MLB history by cWPA. And the Guerrero double was in the top 50, too!

Without question, one of the greatest baseball games we will ever watch. It had everything.

Adam SMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  cashgod27

We don’t measure WPA on defense properly but the catch by Pages would qualify as a top 10 play if we did so rather than just considering the outcome of the entire at bat.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
8 months ago

Finally, a break for the ultra-rich. Disappointing.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

One should not disdain the ultra-rich until one has taken a mile limo ride in their shoes

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

Lol. As an individual who is inarguably ultra-rich on a global scale, it’s a good gig if you luck into it. But I’m not going to say it was an even competition.

raregokusMember since 2022
8 months ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

Christ, what an asshole.

Roger McDowell Hot Foot
8 months ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

I get that this is basically just a general complaint about the Dodgers, but the Jays have the 5th-highest payroll in baseball and are probably cheaping out at that, so I’m a bit confused about how people are casting Rogers Communications, Inc. in the role of Robin Hood here.

jdbolickMember since 2024
8 months ago

Toronto definitely isn’t cheaping out. Nearly every team in baseball ranks similarly in payroll to what they do in revenue. The only two teams that wildly outspent their revenue are the Mets (1st in payroll, 9th in revenue) and the Blue Jays (5th in payroll, 13th in revenue).

Rogers does have a huge amount of wealth, but it’s asset wealth, not liquid like Cohen’s. Unless he plans to borrow against those assets or sell some of them, it isn’t really relevant to their revenue stream. I credit them for running such a high payroll relative to their revenue in 2025, but I expect their payroll to go down rather than up in 2026.

The Dodgers, on the other hand, are projected to have obliterated the single season record for revenue in MLB and may continue to increase payroll next season.

adrock75Member since 2018
8 months ago
Reply to  jdbolick

Rogers is probably higher than 13th in revenue. They game their rights fees and don’t count subscriptions driven by their teams’ sporting success.

Next year, counting the playoff revenue from this run, they could be top 5.

OtterMember since 2016
8 months ago

Agree. Rogers is basically if Comcast and Verzion were one company and also owned the Knicks and Bears on top of it… do not cry for them. They’ll likely be active this winter.

But that said, one of the Blue Jays (minor) issues has been that no one will take their money in recent years. They finally convinced Santander last winter and… and oh well!

PlacidoooMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  Otter

I think they’ll have some interest now. Guys wanna win, these guys can beat the Dodgers.

frankenspock
8 months ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

Sad that this is all you get out of an all-time great World Series. Internet snark. Dumb internet snark, too, since you’re claiming the team with the fifth highest payroll in MLB — one that was happily prepared to pay Ohtani as much money as the Dodgers did — are victims of a rich bully.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

Look, I enjoyed this game. The players on the Dodgers are great players.

At the same time, the dice are heavily weighted towards the rich teams. I would enjoy baseball a lot more if that were not the case, and it’s hard for me to celebrate this outcome.

mikejuntMember
8 months ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

Ive said this elsewhere, but, honestly, you’re right that the Dodgers, Yankees and some others could, if they wanted, spend money in ways that most of the league could not hope to match.

The thing is, honestly, that mostly doesn’t happen with the possible exception of like, literally the Ohtani-era Dodgers. Most teams could spend so much more money than they do, and they could catch the big spenders if they wanted to, because their teams make tons of money.

baycommuterMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

It’s not wealth disparity so much as there’s a market disruption that top Japanese players will make more money including endorsements if they’re Dodgers regardless of salary.

mikejuntMember
8 months ago
Reply to  baycommuter

The wealth disparity is that the Dodgers have recognized that with Ohtani, and then Yamamoto, and now Sasaki, they have the opportunity to monopolize an enormous market where baseball is very popular, and that this means they’re no longer operating in the same market as the rest of the league, at least for the time being.

In the long run, the Ohtani/Yamamoto Dodgers will result in a significant increase in popularity of MLB in Japan in general, but right now, almost all of that popularity is the Dodgers, and it means the economics they’re dealing with are just not the same as everyone else.

The Dodgers have essentially cornered the market on a 2nd geographical area .. and its bigger than California and baseball is the most popular sport there and they employ one of its most popular and loved citizens.

And this means they have also recognized that exactly these next few seasons – 2024 to 2030 or so, with Ohtani/Yamamoto in their primes, with Betts and Freeman, etc, are significantly more valuable in the long run than other World Series – winning exactly these ones will do so much work to cement that popularity, and bring up a whole generation of kids who are not just fans of baseball, but fans of baseball, the Dodgers and Shohei Ohtani.

My guess is that the Dodgers could have spent $800 million on payroll this year and this exact World Series win would still be more valuable to them in a purely profit/loss basis in the long run.

And with 2 of them now I think that that plan is basically operational and nearly impossible to disrupt at this point.

Last edited 8 months ago by mikejunt
Dave TMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  mikejunt

That’s almost certainly overstating the impact of the Japan stuff on the Dodgers’ revenue.

Merchandise licensing and international broadcasting/streaming are equally shared MLB central fund revenue.

The one concrete thing someone can point to is revenue from team sponsorships/in-stadium advertising by Japanese companies. There have some high outside estimates for that number (9 figures per year), but that’s also paired with estimates that it was as little as $10 to $20 million for the Angels in Ohtani’s latter years there.

The Occam’s Razor answer seems to be just that a popular pro sports franchise in LA can generate a lot of revenue.

CNBC’s outside total revenue estimates:

  • Rams #2 in NFL (behind Cowboys)
  • Lakers #3 in NBA (behind Warriors and Knicks)
  • Dodgers #2 in MLB, essentially tied for #1 with the Yankees

I’m highly skeptical that the Dodgers are outpunching the revenue weight much, if any, of what can be expected as “consistent winning for the longstanding more popular team in the LA market”.

mikejuntMember
8 months ago
Reply to  Dave T

I’ve seen reasonable reporting that the Dodgers’ increased revenue last year exceeded Ohtani’s on-paper contract value (the $70m), but also what I am talking about is something that is only beginning and will pay off over the next 10-15 years.

The Dodgers made a sharp turn these last two years of not just spending a lot of money but no longer really caring at all about how much they were spending, and I am fairly sure that it’s because they’ve done the math and recognized that it is extremely valuable to win exactly right now with these players in this situation.

Dave TMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  mikejunt

What are those revenue sources that will pay off in 10-15 years?

Revenue from the Dodgers’ popularity in Japan is *not* like revenue from the Dodgers’ popularity in the LA metro area under MLB’s economic model of what’s equally shared.

Travis LMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  Dave T

How do you account for the value realized when guys like Sasaki sign there for dirt cheap?

PlacidoooMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  baycommuter

Makes sense, think about how many new fans Yamamoto has now.

OtterMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

I understand this thinking, but also credit to the Dodgers for spending money. It’s paid off (no pun intended) in back to back years now.

As fans, we should demand more of our owners and teams imo. I’m not mad at the Dodgers because Jerry Reinsdorf runs his organization so poorly, in a penny wise but pound foolish manner, full of incompetent individuals. If he doesn’t want to compete with the Dodgers (or Mets or Phillies or Padres) then he should take his gigantic profit and speed up the sale of the team. But he won’t. And that’s not the Dodgers fault.

jdbolickMember since 2024
8 months ago

I can’t agree with everyone calling it a great game and series. To me, it was gut wrenching, and as an Orioles fan I have no love for the Blue Jays.

Great series are decided by epic performances whereas this series was a massive choke. Toronto gave away Games 6 & 7 with incomprehensible blunders. While this World Series was quite possibly the most dramatic in history, it wasn’t great.

Having experienced this result in other sports, I feel for Blue Jays fans who will be haunted by what ifs for years to come.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  jdbolick

I’d call Yamamoto’s an epic performance in the Randy Johnson / Madison Bumgarner / Mickey Lolich / Orel Hershiser sense.

I’d call Bichette and Springer epic in a Kirk Gibson / Willis Reed / Shun Fujimoto / Kerri Strug / Tiger Woods way

jdbolickMember since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

The fact remains that the Blue Jays were in the better position to win both Game 6 & Game 7, then choked with absolutely terrible baserunning and assorted other mistakes to give those games away. This series was probably the worst the Dodgers played during the playoffs.

OtterMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  jdbolick

We can debate if the Jays choked G7. But in G6 they weren’t always behind in win probably after Mookie’s two run single. They were unlucky the ball got stuck in the 9th — likely a 3-2 game with a runner on 2nd, maybe 3rd, with one out. Yes, bad base running by Barger to end the game, but a choke it wasn’t.

FrodoBeck
8 months ago
Reply to  jdbolick

Yeah, and they still won. Because they were the better team

It’s easy to choke against good teams, because otherwise you’d be playing flawlessly, in which case you’d be the better team.

sandwiches4everMember since 2019
8 months ago
Reply to  FrodoBeck

In a sport as highly variable as baseball, the result of 2 games has an vanishingly small effect on “who is the better team”.

FrodoBeck
8 months ago

You don’t need to tell me about SSS, I’m a dodger fan who was alive during 2013 and 2014 and 2015 and 2016 and 2018 and 2019.

But I’d say in this instance, it’s quite easy to tell who ist he better team, and it’s the team that won the series.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  jdbolick

I’d add that the Blue Jays outplayed the Dodgers in game 6, game 7, and the series as a whole. The ultra-rich have enough advantages already, they didn’t need luck on top of it.

frankenspock
8 months ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

I’m entirely confident in stating that the Dodgers outplayed the Blue Jays in games 6 and 7.

OtterMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

Paying Yamamoto isn’t luck.

Luck is the ball getting stuck in the wall in the 9th in G6, but even if it doesn’t, it’s a one run Dodger lead.

David Klein
8 months ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

The Blue Jays have a top five payroll and the Blue Jays owners are bil

PlacidoooMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

Yeah, but they didn’t outplay Yamamoto.

frankenspock
8 months ago
Reply to  jdbolick

I despise it when fans bring out the “choke” stuff. Incredibly bush league. These are professional athletes. Their job is to make the other team “choke”. The Dodgers did better at it.

jdbolickMember since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

No, the Blue Jays choked. Barger getting doubled up was incredibly bush league. Kiner-Falefa sliding on a force play was incredibly bush league. Springer getting tagged out at second was incredibly bush league.

The Blue Jays made one massive, inexcusable mistake after another to keep the Dodgers in the final two games.

mikejuntMember
8 months ago
Reply to  jdbolick

Im not sure how many world series you have watched but trust me, great players make questionable to bad plays in all of them, because even great players are human and baseball is a game with lots of failures.

With that said, the Jays baserunning DOES stand out because the team was really sharp in other areas: they had more guys who seemed like they were in a good place at the plate, and their defense was really outstanding.

Their baserunning was chronically bad, arguably, worse than the much-mocked Yankees baserunning of last year.

And their pitching was more good than great, with only a couple guys really consistently performing well (Yesavage, etc).

But the thing about baseball is that great pitchers and hitters have a tendency to make each other look bad more they make themselves look good. Every postseason we talk about how bad star players look because they are facing legions of great pitching, and the reality is both of these teams had great, deep lineups, especially once Pages got benched – and so even a bunch of very good pitchers on both sides frequently looked mortal and had lots of traffic and stress to deal with.

jdbolickMember since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  mikejunt

It is not common for a player to make catastrophic, unforced errors in the World Series, which is why we still talk about Bill Buckner. Thankfully, the Blue Jays made so many incredibly dumb mistakes in the series that no one player will be singled out for that kind of infamy.

Bichette walking to second was inexcusable. Barger getting doubled off was inexcusable. Springer walking to second was inexcusable. Kiner-Falefa not taking a secondary lead with the bases loaded was inexcusable. Kiner-Falefa sliding into a force play at home was inexcusable.

The Blue Jays choked.

mikejuntMember
8 months ago
Reply to  jdbolick

When a team so consistently makes errors in one facet of the game, repeatedly, and even makes the same ones (springer/bichette on the not-ball-4 pickoff), one must ask some questions about how they’re being coached in that facet of the game.

Do you remember last year when the Dodgers, after the World Series, said that their scouting on the Yankees was that the defense was weak and there was extra value in putting the ball in play and making them make a play?

Did the Blue Jays choke, or did competition at the highest level make apparent their weaknesses, just like it did the Dodgers (bullpen/Andy Pages bat)?

The consistency of the baserunning errors, to me, points to the second.

Overall, all series it felt like the Dodgers were at a disadvantage because the Jays were hitting better, but that the Dodgers had many small advantages in terms of better managerial decisionmaking (see many very questionable IBB calls, as well as lots of questionable choices in pinch running and when pinch hitters were and weren’t used on the Jays side) that could matter in close games.

And they did. Repeatedly.

PlacidoooMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  jdbolick

Barger got beat by Kiké playing unexpectedly shallow and making a great read on a broken bat fly-ner. That same situation had scored them runs all series. Credit to Kiké there tbh.

angtughpak46Member since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  jdbolick

The Blue Jays choked.

And so what if they did? They got to the Series, took the best shot they could, and lost. Some team has to lose. This time, it was the Jays.

But do keep choking that, uh, chicken.

King CMLMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  jdbolick

Strongly agree. I can’t really watch baseball because as perfect as it is from a front-office and fantasy perspective, the in-game strategy is trivial and the sport is played and managed by morons. You can’t say that about hockey, football, basketball, soccer …

angtughpak46Member since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  King CML

 I can’t really watch baseball because as perfect as it is from a front-office and fantasy perspective, the in-game strategy is trivial and the sport is played and managed by morons. 

So he proclaims from high atop Bullshit Mountain.

Last edited 8 months ago by 13174612
ichiro262Member since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  jdbolick

I don’t think you know what Bush league means… that usually refers to unsportsmanlike or unprofessional plays. Not players making suboptimal reads or snap decisions that go the wrong way. Maaaaybe Springer’s CS qualifies, but definitely not the other two you mentioned.

PlacidoooMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

Choke is cruel. But to me it describes plays like Orion Kerkering’s this NLDS. Like a mental Yips.

mikejuntMember
8 months ago
Reply to  jdbolick

Whether something is an incredible choke or an incredibly gritty clutch play under pressure depends almost entirely on who you were rooting for. The only real exception are straight up errors, like the Yankees meltdown in G5 last year.

jdbolickMember since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  mikejunt

That isn’t true at all. Only Dodgers fans wanted them to win. They are the modern day Evil Empire.

The Blue Jays made unforced mistakes to throw the title away. That is a textbook choke.

mikejuntMember
8 months ago
Reply to  jdbolick

Yes, I am aware you wanted the Jays to win which is why their failures seem like a choke to you, rather than, say, ridiculous heroics by some of the worst players on the the roster, like Miguel Rojas.

The Dodgers also threw away many opportunities, and if the Jays had won this series there would be many places you could point to and claim that they choked.

All World Series are like this, absent the very few that play out like 2018 where the best team in baseball wins all its playoff games and it never looks like anyone is close to in their league. That happens like once a decade at best, though.

jdbolickMember since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  mikejunt

Nothing the Dodgers did even comes close to the numerous errors the Blue Jays committed. I don’t understand why you’re so set on pretending otherwise, but your consent or lack thereof has no effect on reality, and the reality is that Toronto’s unforced errors are the reason that they didn’t win the 2025 World Series.

mikejuntMember
8 months ago
Reply to  jdbolick

You can tell yourself that if it makes you feel better, but it probably won’t.

jdbolickMember since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  mikejunt

I’m not sure what you’re even pretending to argue at this point. It is an inarguable fact that the Blue Jays committed multiple unforced blunders that cost them the title. If Kiner-Falefa didn’t slide, the Blue Jays would be champions.

david k
8 months ago
Reply to  jdbolick

It’s not only IKF’s slide, it was the small lead he took off 3B.

Yes, I suppose that any mistake that one side makes in a losing effort could qualify as “choking”, but when one side did it demonstratively more than the other, and in the most brutal of fashions (negating the most likely WS clinching run), it is very fair to say the Jays choked and at the same time, the Dodgers did what they had to do to win. It CAN be BOTH.

fredsbankMember since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  jdbolick

Agreed, it would have been great if LA had lost. But this era of their complete and utter dominance at the hands of their payroll is not enjoyable, and baseball fans should not want it. They’re about to sign Tucker and probably Alonso, and undoubtedly conjure up a new amazing Japanese player as well. It’s just ridiculous at this point.

ichiro262Member since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  fredsbank

The Blue Jays are way too rich (both in terms of payroll and their owners’ pockets) to cry poor here. The Blue Jays saying they lost to the Dodgers because of payroll is the same as me saying the M’s lost to the Blue Jays because of payroll.

Basically, if you deserved to win the world series because of money being unfair then you deserved to lose in the ALCS and not even get there because money is unfair.

PlacidoooMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  fredsbank

They won’t sign either of those guys. They’ll add flexible role players with obp upside around the margins and shuffle some bullpen pieces but mostly they will run it back. Not getting rid of Pages bc he wilted in the WS, really only leaves left field. I just hope they bring Rojas back for another season.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
8 months ago

The Dodgers’ massive payroll advantage significantly cheapens this accomplishment.

frankenspock
8 months ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

I forgot that the Blue Jays are a smol bean team from Tiny Town.

jdbolickMember since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

The Blue Jays are closer to the Athletics in revenue (+$87m) than they are to the Yankees (-$351m).

King CMLMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  jdbolick

Is that in CAD or real dollars

ichiro262Member since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  jdbolick

Those numbers are wildly incorrect. The Yankees payroll wasn’t even $350M, this year, much less $350M more than the Jays.

Also, the Dodgers spent 34% more than the Jays this year. But the Jays spent 64% more than the Mariners.

Moral of the story: the Blue Jays aren’t the victims here. They’re benefitting incredibly from this system with the 5th highest payroll in baseball, which pretty directly got them to the world series with a great chance to win it if they just played a little better.

King CMLMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

Not like their opponents spent $30M this year on a guy with less WAR than Shea Langeliers

fredsbankMember since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

Agreed. It’s sad how an analytics community has come all the way around to “who cares, everybody should just cheer for the team with the deepest pockets”

frankenspock
8 months ago

There’s no shame in losing a World Series as great as this one was, but man I can empathize with the pain for the Blue Jays and their fans. I hope that one day they’re able to appreciate just what happened here.

Dave TMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

That will probably take winning a World Series.

Nutting TusihereMember since 2017
8 months ago

The Blue Jays biggest mistake was acquiring a Pirate at the deadline.

GammaDraconisMember since 2020
8 months ago

True words

Thomas BertonMember since 2020
8 months ago

Who did they get from the Pirates at the deadline?

Jason BMember since 2017
8 months ago
Reply to  Thomas Berton

IKF

sandwiches4everMember since 2019
8 months ago
Reply to  Thomas Berton

IKF

Thomas BertonMember since 2020
8 months ago

Ah okay. Not actually a deadline acquisition though. He was claimed off waivers at the end of August

Smiling PolitelyMember since 2018
8 months ago

Does Brock Stewart get a ring?

loria_estefan
8 months ago

if buddy kennedy gets one, brock should too

PlacidoooMember since 2025
8 months ago

Probably will.

mgwalker
8 months ago

(Outside of Toronto) we can all be thankful that this series did not end on an overturned call saying Smith got his foot back down on the plate a nanosecond late for the force play.

We did come within a nanosecond of that outcome.

Dave TMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  mgwalker

Counterpoint: If that had been the correct call – it wasn’t – then it would have been very good that replay was available to correct a mistake.

That’s why review is there: to correct mistakes instead of having them live on for years as easily available replays of a bad call being pivotal in a big game.

Baseball rather routinely has safe/out calls that hinge on whether a runner just barely missed touching home plate, if a pitcher covering first just barely missed the base, or if a throw to 1st just barely pulled a first baseman off the bag.

I’m not a Blue Jays fan, btw, but I am a Cardinals fan who can remember the Denkinger call in the 1985 World Series. It’s great that baseball has a review system to avoid something similar happening now.

Best option, of course, is for a big call to be correct before replay review. That won’t happen 100% of the time due to human fallibility. Second-best option is for review to correct a mistake.

mgwalker
8 months ago
Reply to  Dave T

I am not ready to say that a game (much less a world series game 7) ending minutes after the action by virtue of an overturned call is preferable to playing on after an incorrect call.

Last edited 8 months ago by mgwalker
Dave TMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  mgwalker

The alternative of such a call standing is that post-game reporting looks like the January 2019 NFC Championship game, where “blown call” and “egregious mistake by the officials” are in the first 2 (short) paragraphs of the AP article about the game.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/recap/_/gameId/401038118

As for the time it takes to review plays, MLB does that very well relative to football and basketball.

DavidMember since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  mgwalker

I dunno, we’re humans so we’ve narratively normalized games being determined by the real-time perceptions of a group of older men standing around on the field, but in a time of high speed video, that’s weird! And definitely more arbitrary! We can normalize something else, and I think that is great for the game going forward.

PlacidoooMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  Dave T

Yeah, I 100% agree, just saying it would have been an aesthetically terrible outcome. It just feels really deflated as a potential game winning moment. Glad they got it right, glad they moved on quick. Glad the system is built to overturn bad calls. Less to litigate the sometimes too close to calls.

Adam SMember since 2016
8 months ago
Reply to  mgwalker

We also came close to a situation where the ump rules Smith came off the plate. The Jays swarm the field, dump Gatorade, etc. and then replay overturns the call. (Though that was so close I’m not sure replay would have overturned it.)

But better to get the call right than have a missed call decide the World Series.

sandwiches4everMember since 2019
8 months ago
Reply to  Adam S

Given the severe closeness, I think the Jays (and their fans) would have shown enough restraint understanding that the outcome is still pending.

PlacidoooMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  mgwalker

That would indeed have been a horrible outcome.

kingkash7788
8 months ago

the general feeling here in Toronto is a mix of heartbreak and hope. Coming 2 outs away will probably forever haunt the entire team, mixed with the fact we missed the walkoff by a fraction of an inch. Still though, we actually got the city to come together as one. I think our window is still wide open, especially if we can resign Bo. Vlad was able to cement himself as a true superstar this postseason, while we got to witness the breakouts of players like Barger, Ernie and Trey. Just like how the rebellion battle of Hoth (Its actually snowing in some parts of Ontario), sometimes it takes some pain in order to truly defeat an empire

matthayden4Member since 2024
8 months ago

I really wanted my Jays to win, but dear Lord, what a game seven, and what a series. That was one of the greatest games I’ve ever seen. Hats off to the Dodgers. Thanks for the amazing ride, Toronto.

King CMLMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  matthayden4

Well, at least they beat two stronger teams and almost a third. TBH I can see fielding this roster if the 255M is in toonies but if it’s real dollars it’s just kinda sad

PlacidoooMember since 2025
8 months ago
Reply to  matthayden4

Cheers man, this was an incredible series. It would really be something if these teams matched up again next year.

OddBall Herrera
8 months ago

The games were fun to watch, but I have to say, the Dodgers were outscored 34-26 in this series. This felt like a series in which they got outplayed but where, when the chips could’ve fallen one way or another, they got the breaks.

And that’s what leaves me frustrated by this WS. The Dodgers are using more resources than any team in baseball, yet here comes Ohtani giving them a huge windfall of a contract structure. And here comes a WS where they kept pulling off an inside straight draw when they needed to…getting homers from random guys, stranding baserunners at absurd rates, players running into each other but the ball finding a glove, Toronto’s walking wounded, etc. It feels wrong to see a team that is at the top echelon of the Haves in the league also get all the breaks, like seeing a billionaire win the lottery.

Not to say that they didn’t earn it or that they got lucky. They hit those homers, they made those catches, Yamamoto was a joy to watch pitch. But going into an offseason where free agency again seems to be a matter of the Dodgers getting who they want and the rest of the league sorting through the rest, and with the Dodgers having been involved in 5 of the last 9 world series, I think I can speak for most MLB fans and say: this is getting old.

My only comfort will be when the bills on all the deferred money start coming due. It’ll make Bobby Bonilla day seem like an exchange of loose change.

mikejuntMember
8 months ago

The Dodgers lost 2 of the 3 games they lost by a combined score of 15-3, really, its just the G1 blowout where Roberts let Emmet Sheehan wear it in garbage time that is why the Dodgers were outscored in the series.

Also, I think you fundamentally don’t understand how deferred contract payments work or how little its going to impact the Dodgers. I’ll give you a brief summary:

Teams must place deferred salary, or sufficient financial assets to pay said salary, into escrow by the All Star Break 2 seasons after the salary is earned (so, ASG 2026 for Shohei’s 2024 salary, for instance).

Note, however, that the relevant term here is ‘assets’. The team can place investments in the escrow that have a liquid value that would pay the contract. Those assets can grow in the interim, and whatever growth is not needed to pay the bill (including whatever interest is owed to the player on the deferred payments) is the team’s to keep.

Most players with deferred money use the standard market rate; some negotiate. Shohei Ohtani quite famously gave the Dodgers a 0% rate on his deferred money, which is why it’s devalued so significantly in present-value terms (because it’s giving the Dodgers a 10 year, interest-free loan).

The Dodgers are owned by one of the largest and most successful mutual funds in the world.

They are going to place non-cash assets into the escrow accounts, and they will keep whatever excess earnings those assets make after the bills are due – or any returns at all, in Ohtani’s case.

This is not going to create the sort of cash-flow crunch you imagine, and if it did, it would happen starting next year, not 10 years from now when the money is paid out.

Last edited 8 months ago by mikejunt
King CMLMember since 2025
8 months ago

It’s playoff baseball—there’s a massive amount of luck. Exhibit A: the BJs making the World Series in the first place

No one would say the Braves from a few years ago or (more to the point) both Marlins winners were all that great

PhilMember since 2016
8 months ago

The thing with Bobby Bonilla wasn’t really the deferred money – it was that the Mets renegotiated his deal to pay him a lot more money than he was originally owed. (Because the Mets thought that they could get a better return by investing that money with a certain Bernie Madoff.)

I don’t think the Dodgers front office/ownership are going to make that mistake.

OnWI1933Member since 2016
8 months ago

Congrats to the Dodgers and their fans.

Condolences to the Jays and their fans

Thanks to both teams for an amazing series.

Old Washington Senators FanMember since 2020
8 months ago

So much in this game…Yamamoto’s performance was legendary and Clement(e) barely missed ending the Series on a walk-off grand slam!

Snell and Yesavage were heroic as well, on 2 days rest.

As I said after Game 5, baseball always surprises, but the surprises in this game were myriad and magnificent – although I did want the Blue Jays to win for many reasons, some sports-related, since, if it’s not my team, I like to see non-repeat winners and for non-sports reasons which we will all see in the not too distant future, unfortunately.

But, I’m leaving the latter reasons out as there are other fora to discuss and debate those.

fredsbankMember since 2020
8 months ago

Honestly disgusted that LA won that game. I am firmly a salary cap guy now. Can’t stand that team or anybody on it.

ichiro262Member since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  fredsbank

Just so you know, your Blue Jays would be significantly hurt by a salary cap. 5th highest payroll in baseball. The Dodgers spent 34% more than the Jays this year, but the Jays spent 64% more than the Mariners.

What you’re wishing for is to take yourself down with the empire. Which TBH is pretty admirable.

fredsbankMember since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  ichiro262

I’m not a blue jays fan lmao. Believe it or not, most baseball fans hate the dodgers, outside of apparently this website which has turned into a lovefest for spending billions.

ichiro262Member since 2024
8 months ago
Reply to  fredsbank

The Dodgers aren’t even the top spending team this year (Mets). This is the second year in a row with a world series matchup of 2 of the top 5 payrolls.

IDK, I’m not rooting for the Dodgers (other than temporary spite of the Jays for beating my M’s). But I think the whole Dodger hate is a little overblown and plays into the hands of owners aiming to spend less money and potentially force a lockout.

It’s pretty wild to read a handful of opinions that are different than yours and take away “well I know everybody else agrees with me, you must all be in love with billionaires!”

What you’re missing is that this was a really cool world series and that there are tons of baseball fans who like baseball more than they hate the Dodgers.

At the end of the day, most of what I’ve seen on this site and twitter/BlueSky is more of “wow what an amazing world series” and less of “this is the worst because the team with the 2nd highest payroll beat the team with the 5th highest payroll and that’s so unfair because one number is bigger than the other”.

fredsbankMember since 2020
8 months ago
Reply to  ichiro262

Lmfao

Adam SMember since 2016
8 months ago

It was a great series in terms of being competitive and lots of exciting moments. Even the games where the final score was ugly were close for 5 innings.

But in terms of being well played, this was a battle of which team and perhaps which manager would screw up worse. The Dodgers were early contenders for letting Ohtani pitch a 3rd inning after an ugly second. But some awful baserunning by Kiner-Falefa, as you called out, kept that from being the deciding factor. A short lead, a lack of secondary lead, and a slide were THREE base running mistakes on one play. If he makes only two of the three mistakes, the Jays win the game on that play.

krusherkovalev55Member since 2026
8 months ago

best series in years, etc..but we really are gonna ignore the elephant in the room about how bad bunting was and also the intentional walks to Ohtani in tne 18 inning game? Managerial malpractice regardless of the results imo

Jason BMember since 2017
8 months ago

 the intentional walks to Ohtani in tne 18 inning game”

Why would anyone still be litigating a decision in Game 3 that had zero bearing on the outcome? Plus there was a FanGraphs article that looked at each walk in detail…

krusherkovalev55Member since 2026
8 months ago
Reply to  Jason B

Because I like to be process oriented not results oriented and I think it’s interesting that there isn’t more discussion about one of the more obviously bad managerial performances in years or alternatively some discussion about why that is an incorrect statement and I’m wrong. Just pointing it out in a sea of 220+ comments I don’t expect it to dominate discussion of a memorable series but im surprised there is none

Last edited 8 months ago by krusherkovalev55
sandwiches4everMember since 2019
8 months ago

As has been litigated elsewhere on this site, I don’t think the IBBs to Ohtani are egregious given the massive series leverage between being up 2-1 and down 2-1. There’s certainly an argument to be had about aesthetics, but strategically, I certainly wouldn’t call it “malpractice”.

Bunting is going to be bad for the large majority because most of them aren’t bunting. I’m going to use an admittedly exaggerated scenario, but if it became necessary for players to ice skate in a critical moment, I’m sure some of them would be fine, others might be great. But you’d likely get a lot of face plants.

You can argue as to whether it is a valuable use of coaching/practice time to have all of your players (except maybe the Judge/Ohtani class) practice bunting.

Willians Astu-stu-studilloMember since 2020
8 months ago

To me, the pivotal moment was Gimenez going for the butcher boy and lining out on an absolute rope straight to Muncy’s left shoulder. Right then, I said that if their batted ball luck had run out, they were cooked. I was being facetious, of course, but it all really did just fall apart for them after that. If it had gotten through, and it should have, the Blue Jays are the winners.

mikejuntMember
8 months ago

Their continued faith in Andres Giminez, RISP God, is part of why the Jays lost in my opinion.