About the Braves and All of Their Strikeouts

The Astros have the worst team strikeout rate in the history of baseball. It’s not even particularly close, as these things go. The Astros have struck out in 26.8% of their plate appearances. The 2010 Diamondbacks struck out in 24.7% of their plate appearances. That’s a gap of more than two percentage points, in a rate that usually fluctuates between 15-25% or so. That’s terrible, and the only consolation is that the Astros were projected to be terrible so no one really cares.

Then right behind the 2010 Diamondbacks are this year’s Braves, at 24.5%. So, this year’s Braves have the third-worst team strikeout rate in the history of baseball. Between third and fourth there’s a gap of another 1.6 percentage points. The Braves, obviously, have the second-worst team strikeout rate this season. Just glancing at their current box score, they’ve struck out six times in four innings against Ian Kennedy on Wednesday. They’re going to strike out more before this game is through. Probably. I guess I can’t be certain.

Of course, just as we projected the Astros to be terrible, we projected the Braves to strike out a lot. This was a whole offseason talking point, as people tried to figure out whether or not the Braves had too many strikeouts coming their direction. At some point, the theory goes, you’re striking out so much that you cripple your own offense, that you can’t move runners around or sustain any rallies. There was concern that the Braves wouldn’t make enough contact, and we’ve addressed that concern here before.

No one really worried when the Braves were 12-1. At that point, a lot of people were overreacting to the fast start and wondering whether the Braves were the best team in the league. But since then, they’ve gone 10-16, and they’ve nearly given away their NL East division lead. People want to know what’s wrong, and once again, there’s been talk about the strikeouts. The team strikeout rate’s been nearly 26% over the last month.

Here’s the short of it: no, it’s not about the strikeouts. It could never be about the strikeouts. A strikeout, in isolation, is an unproductive out, a wasted opportunity, but in context a strikeout is just one of a number of outcomes. The Braves have the National League’s third-highest wRC+, despite an unwell Jason Heyward and an until-recently unavailable Brian McCann. The Braves have the NL’s second-highest ISO, and the first-place Rockies come with an asterisk.

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Now here’s the fun part. Observers can’t stand strikeouts when they come at times that all but demand a ball in play. This is what critics of the Braves have highlighted: that they’d be incapable of playing smallball, and that somehow this could bring the team down. Baseball-Reference hosts some neat statistics. Let’s look at a couple of them, shall we?

Productive outs

  • League average: 32%
  • Braves: 32%

Scoring with runner on third, less than two out

  • League average: 50%
  • Braves: 54%

The Braves have made no fewer productive outs than the league average, despite their strikeout tendencies. Also despite their strikeout tendencies, they’ve converted an above-average rate of opportunities with runners on third and less than two out. Every time a team fails to bring home the runner in that situation, it seems like a senselessly lost opportunity, but the reality is that the conversion rate is far lower than most would probably assume. And the Braves have been beating it, by a little.

If you’ll allow me a quick aside, some people might grumble about baseball players’ diminished capacity to play smallball. That, because no one worries about strikeouts anymore, players have lost their fundamentals. Let’s look at how that last conversion rate has moved around:

Scoring with runner on third, less than two out

  • 1963: 47% league average
  • 1973: 47%
  • 1983: 52%
  • 1993: 52%
  • 2003: 52%
  • 2013: 50%

The rate has hardly budged. You could say, rightly, that it’s gone down of late, but it hasn’t gone down enough for people to notice. Batters have long been finding ways to not drive runners home from third base with less than two out. It’s not all about just making contact. It’s more complicated, and baseball today is healthy and well. Baseball today just has some different fundamentals.

Anyhow, there will be times that the Braves strike out when a non-strikeout would’ve been of greater service. There’ve already been plenty of those times, and there’ll be plenty more. That’s an unchangeable component of the team identity. But the Braves are also going to hit the ball hard, driving in multiple people at once. And one has to understand just what we’re dealing with. It’s not like the Braves strike out all of the time. Their strikeout rate is about four percentage points higher than the league average, which works out to one extra strikeout per 25 plate appearances. If we keep things simple, that’s one extra strikeout per 25 plate appearances in opportunities with runners on base. In the other 24 plate appearances, they’d make a normal amount of contact, and their contact would be harder than most since it’s a team with a bunch of power hitters. Is it really justifiable to be that concerned about one plate appearance per 25, especially when the strikeouts are offset by other team qualities?

The overwhelming majority of the time, a given Braves batter won’t strike out. They’re not automatic, and they’re not out of control. Dan Uggla is probably the most strikeout-prone hitter on the team. For his career, with runners on third and less than two out, he’s driven home a run 47% of the time, against a 51% average. That’s not a gap you’d even notice when watching on TV. No, the Braves aren’t going to be the best smallball team in the majors, but there’s no point in exaggerating a perceived problem, because the same approach that leads to the strikeouts is the approach that allows the Braves batters to hit the crap out of the ball much of the rest of the time.





Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.

43 Comments
Oldest
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rusty
13 years ago

Market inefficiency! Market inefficiency!
/checks Mark Reynolds’ player page
/re-clicks on Sam Miller BPro article on Mark Reynolds
/laughs so hard, forgets what was being investigated

Josh M
13 years ago

Just a little more perspective for anyone too lazy to click the link, the Braves (54%) are 6th in baseball in scoring runners from 3rd with less than 2 outs, Cincinnati is first at 57%. The Cubs are the worst in baseball at 33%. The only teams in the top half dozen that anyone would consider small ball teams are the White Sox and the Mariners, both at 55%. Moral of the story: The Cubs are terrible. (second worse is Miami at 43%)

Jaker
13 years ago

On the topic of the Braves,

Upton and Johnson have been worth a combined 3.0 WAR so far this season.

Prado has been worth -0.4 WAR. 3/4 of prospects received in the trade with the Braves are performing very poorly (including Delgado and his 9.09 ERA/6.60 FIP).

It will obviously take some time to see how the prospects pan out, but in the short term it’s looking like a steal for the Braves.

LaLoosh
13 years ago
Reply to  Jaker

of course it looks like a steal so far. Did we need the WAR sums to know that? and of course there were other players going to the Snakes, so it’s way premature to conclude anything from this deal yet.

Jaker
13 years ago
Reply to  LaLoosh

Yeah. SSS and all that. Just thought it was worth noting. Prado is sporting a .246 BABIP so he’ll turn it around soon enough (his May stats are already creeping back to his projections).

Blockhead
13 years ago
Reply to  Jaker

It’s always fun to dump on Kevin Towers and how he’s smarter than the “so-called experts” but this article had nothing to do with, nor had any mention of the trade.

TKDC
13 years ago
Reply to  Blockhead

Yes, this is a useless comment for this article. Also, I don’t know a single Braves fan who is happy Prado is struggling so much. Prado is the fucking man.

Trotter76
13 years ago
Reply to  Blockhead

Except that Justin Upton was on the 2nd and 3rd worst strikeout teams in baseball history.

LaLoosh
13 years ago

Meh. Regarding the first 2 metrics you posted – Productive Outs and Scoring from 3B with < 2 outs – which seemed to purport that all was fine wrt the Braves prodigious K totals, what is the splits for those in their first 13 games and succeeding 26?

Something tells me those metrics might be a tad more telling when you look at the splits.

Anon21
13 years ago
Reply to  LaLoosh

What would that prove? They were striking out a ton during their hot start, and they’re striking out a ton now. I’ll bet their numbers in the two categories Jeff singles out have gone down during their slump, because if they were still up, they’d be winning more games. The fact remains that to this point they have compiled a ton of strikeouts and an average number of productive outs.

LaLoosh
13 years ago
Reply to  Anon21

I can’t find where those splits might be available, but as you say the Prod Outs and Scoring from 3B < 2 outs are prob down since the Braves hot start. The point would be how much that has contributed to their big slow down.

some.guy
13 years ago
Reply to  LaLoosh

That’s a separate point than the article makes. Strikeouts are often condemned as ‘non-productive outs’. The article makes it clear that even with enormous strikeout rates, the Braves haven’t fared poorly in situations where productive outs are beneficial; showing that criticism to be irrelevant.

Getting the runner in from 3rd definitely has something to do with winning, but not strikeouts.

Wil
13 years ago

Biggest problem with the Braves during their 10-16 stretch is that:

A) They have been on the road a great majority of that and have played the most road games of any team in the MLB.

B) T

Wil
13 years ago

Biggest problem with the Braves during their 10-16 stretch is that:

A) They have been on the road a great majority of that stretch and have played the most road games of any team in the MLB.

B) Their pitching has come back to earth and they are giving up a ton of runs, compared to their hot start.

I expect the pitching to be somewhat better going forward and the very home friendly schedule going forward should help the Braves.

JEdwardMember since 2016
13 years ago
Reply to  Wil

This. 26 of 34 on the road, and they’ve played the most games against above .500 teams in baseball this season. Not shocking they’ve struggled of late.

Dan Ugglas Forearm
13 years ago
Reply to  Wil

Exactly. The Braves have a really tough first quarter of the season, and a pretty tough first half overall. Not only are there a lot of good teams on the schedule in the first half, but good teams on the road. If they perform the same way they are now, but with the schedule in the second half, they should win a lot of games. They also have three (3) stretches of 20 consecutive games. It’s pretty rare to ever get two such stretches in a season. The home/road splits for those stretches are: 8/12, 7/13, 8/12. Atlanta kinda got snubbed schedule-wise this season…

Dustin
13 years ago

Seems like there would be a ton of competing factors for figuring out if strikeouts are a problem. OBP is 0% on a k. Double play rate is also 0% on a k. Focusing on making contact would presumably result in more, weaker contact. I think pitchers are more likely to walk a guy with a higher slugging. What would be the net be? Could you ever really know?

cass
13 years ago
Reply to  Dustin

We already know. A strikeout is a bad result, just like any other out. So a lot of strikeouts isn’t a great thing. But what’s far more important is the overall number of outs, since a strikeout is very similar to any other out. Fortunately, we have a stat for that! OBP, which is just 1-Out%.

Hamilton Marx
13 years ago
Reply to  cass

hence the reason the braves are pretty good and the astros are not.

Chickensoup
13 years ago
Reply to  Dustin

im not entirely sure if taking first on a strikeout is calculated into OBP or not, or if a strike them out throw them out is considered a “double play” but those are the two scenarios where they would in fact make the numbers be something other than 0%.

to answer your question though, i dont think theres a real way to caluculate what your talking about because it gets into complete unknowns, such as pitcher mindset and hitter mindset, which can change completely based on game context even with the same player within one game.

Phantom Stranger
13 years ago

It’s never going to happen because of the new contract and his brother being on the team, but they need to sit BJ Upton for an extended stretch. He needs to completely re-tool his swing, including eliminating the toe tap.

ryan c
13 years ago

Comparing his slo-mo swing from his ’06 Rays year to ’13 with the Braves, the toe-tap doesn’t seem to be the problem. The problem seems to generate from his arm positioning. His hands are now far more forward then what they were prior to this year, causing his swing to be a bit longer than prior years. In my opinion, this explains why BJ is late on all pitches, not just fast balls. It’s simply timing…

One other slight difference I noticed, when he “cocked” his bat with the Rays, his hands would load diagonally into the zone. Now, his hands seem to be making a move downward first, then back. Simple geometry would tell us that his hands are traveling farther now then what they were previously.

Of course, this could just be my eyes trying to search for reasoning behind his ineptitude…

For your own eval, search BJ Upton slow motion youtube rays, then same with braves and see for yourself.

some.guy
13 years ago

Don’t focus on the toe tap because it’s different. Focus on finding the real problem, per ryan c’s comment

Macek
13 years ago

So this isn’t really about the Braves but more about runners scoring from third with less than 2 outs. I don’t think that its surprising that there hasn’t been a big change in that rate over time. I’d imagine that scoring % with 2 outs would tell a different story. A strikeout in that situation would give you a 0% chance of scoring where as a ball in play would give you something around 30%. Anywho, I’d just never thought of that before. Thanks for the article and making me think.

Phil
13 years ago

Excuse me, but the BABIP is roughly .300. The BA on K’s is roughly .000. Over the last ten years or so as K’s have risen OBP and R/G have dropped. I know it’s a complicated issue with a ton of variables but when the balls in play shit happens, and much of it has a positive effect on scoring.

Teej
13 years ago
Reply to  Phil

The Braves are exchanging runs that come from “shit happening” for runs that come on homers. If the Braves tried to simply make contact to score some runs that way, they’d lose some runs that score the other way. Ideally you’d have nine prime Albert Pujolses in your lineup and you could have great power and great contact, but in reality, that’s not going to happen. This is the team the Braves have, and this is how they’re going to score runs. And my guess is it’s going to work just fine.

Mike
13 years ago
Reply to  Phil

The idea here is that you trade strike outs for an approach at the plate that leads to more hard hit balls, and thus a higher BABIP, higher ISO, and more home runs. The article was suggesting that it more than evens out when the team has good hitters, as the Braves do.

Record Keeper
13 years ago

Evan Gattis Game Logs

1-4, HR, K
3-4
0-3, BB, 2 K
1-4, 2 K
2-4, 2B, HR
2-4, HR, BB
0-4, BB, K
1-3, HR, BB, K
1-4, 2B
0-4, 2 K
0-4, K
(PH) 1-1, HR
0-3
1-3
1-4, HR, K
1-5, 2B, 2 K
1-3, 2B, K
0-4, K
1-4, 2 K
2-4, 2B, BB
0-3
2-4
1-5, HR, 3 K
2-4, 2B, K
1-4, 2B, K
0-4, 2 K
0-3, 2 K
2-4, 2B
(PH) 1-1, 2B
0-3, BB, 2 K
0-3, BB, K
(PH) 0-1

28-115, 10 2B, 7 HR, 20 RBI, 8 BB, 31 K

Is this player doing really well or really struggling right now? I can’t even tell.

fjtorres
13 years ago
Reply to  Record Keeper

Well, that is 7 HRs and 20rbi in 32 games.
Projected to a full season of regular play it works out to something like 35 HRs and 100rbi, with 40 walks and 150Ks.
The .240 BA isn’t stopping him from being productive.
Reminds me of Graig Nettles, actually.

CJ
13 years ago
Reply to  Record Keeper

Struggling against RHP but doing great against LHP.

Dan Ugglas Forearm
13 years ago
Reply to  Record Keeper

Ever since he hit that neck-high fastball out of the park off Strasburg he’s been chasing high with 2 strikes. Check that, he’s just been chasing everything thrown by a pitcher.

scraps
13 years ago

Strikeouts mean you can’t advance runners, sure. But double plays also vanish with strikeouts, and double plays almost always penalize offenses much more than advancing runners help.

Dan Ugglas Forearm
13 years ago
Reply to  scraps

You can always hope for a dropped third strike.

ATL_GT
13 years ago
Reply to  scraps

That’s a good point not being discussed.

some.guy
13 years ago
Reply to  ATL_GT

It’s indirectly addressed by looking at the [lack of] correlation between runners scoring from 3rd% and strikeouts.

Wobatus
13 years ago

B.J. Upton is really struggling. .145/.242/.244 with a 32 wRC+? That’s a month and a half that’s much worse than any single month he’s ever had, and he’s had some rough stretches. The worse wRC+ month in his career was 52 in June 2012.

some.guy
13 years ago
Reply to  Wobatus

I think it’s mental. He appears to be having a hard time getting comfortable in his new habitat. It’s hard for me to believe his talent has just evaporated.

Hurtlockertwo
13 years ago

I think a metric should be developed that measures indivudual value of each at bat. A walk, +1, a single that scores a run +2, a strikeout zero, a strike out with a runner on third, less than two out -2. That would be interesting over a season.

Mike
13 years ago
Reply to  Hurtlockertwo

You mean WPA?

TKDCMember since 2016
13 years ago
Reply to  Mike

No, this is RE24

Eli
13 years ago

Since 1995 (just felt like a good place to stop, i got things to do), no team has won a World Series with a team strikeout rate above 19%.

Correlation not causation, I know, but still.

Ron
13 years ago
Reply to  Eli

What about got into playoff’s or won the division or even won 100 games? I haven’t done any of that but picking the random winner of the World Series doesn’t tell us much.

Now the environment for strikeouts has changed so a better way of looking at it would be in relation to league average strikeout rate. How have good teams compared?

TKDC
13 years ago
Reply to  Eli

And a switch hitter hasn’t won the AL MVP since 1971.