After Snell Trade, Tampa Bay’s System Depth Approaches 20,000 Leagues

Late last night, the Padres and Rays consummated a blockbuster trade that is a microcosm of the two orgs’ approaches to contention. Tampa Bay sent electric lefty Blake Snell to the pitching-hungry Padres for a collection of four young players: Luis Patiño, Blake Hunt, Cole Wilcox, and Francisco Mejía. The move bolsters a San Diego rotation that was beset by injuries so late and so severe in 2020 that the club’s rotation depth and quality for next season was clearly still lacking despite their trade deadline efforts to improve it. The Padres have spent most of the last several years building one of the most impressive collections of minor league talent in the sport and, now that they’ve closed much of the gap between themselves and the Dodgers, have begun cashing in their prospect chips for elite big leaguers, while the Rays continue to bet on their ability to scout minor leaguers who can turn into long-term pieces for their club given its limited payroll. Below are my thoughts on the prospects headed back to the Rays in the trade; Ben Clemens will assess the Snell side of the deal later today.

The obvious headliner here is Patiño, who turned 21 in October. He’s coming off a rocky rookie year during which the Padres promoted him to work in a multi-inning relief role. In mostly two-ish-inning outings, Patiño threw 17.1 innings, struck out 21, walked 14, and amassed a 5.19 ERA. Despite the poor surface-level performance in a small sample, Patiño’s stuff was strong. His fastball sat 95-99 all year, his mid-80s slider was often plus, and his power changeup, which is often 87-91 mph, also has the look of a bat-missing pitch.

Despite his velocity, Patiño’s fastball wasn’t generating frequent swings and misses, perhaps because it sometimes has a little bit of natural cut, especially when Patiño is locating it to his glove side. Fastballs with cutting action tend to run into more bats than ones with a combination of tail and rise. The Rays altered Pete Fairbanks’ heater in such a way that they were able to correct this for 2020 and got an extra gear out of him. It’s possible they’ll do the same with Patiño.

What about the walks? Patiño’s arm action looked pretty long this year for someone his size, and this may have contributed to his inconsistent feel for locating his fastball. If his fastball ends up having more carry because of a small release tweak, it’ll be less important for him to have fine command of the pitch. But Patiño’s so athletic and so young, and has grown into such huge stuff so quickly, that it’s possible feel for pitching will still come just from reps. Regardless of the avenue he takes, I think Patiño is likely to be an All-Star starting pitcher for the Rays in the coming years, and perhaps a face of their franchise.

The prospect who will rank next-highest on a Rays list, which promises to be of Biblical proportion, is 22-year-old catcher Blake Hunt. Every year the Padres seem to draft an early-round high schooler who blew up during his senior spring. A huge part of evaluating high schoolers occurs during the summer before their senior year, when they’re playing most of the other elite high schoolers from across the country. But the Padres seem to like to pop a late-riser, or someone obscured by injury, every year. They’ve used picks on guys like Joshua Mears, Sam Keating, Owen Caissie, Mason House, or Mason Thompson, and in 2017 they drafted Blake Hunt, who was so lost (along with Jacob Amaya) among a huge crop of Los Angeles-area prep talent (Danner, Greene, Lewis, Pratto, Crouse, Estrada, Allen, Ward, etc) that he didn’t even make the SoCal Area Codes team (a regional, draft and scout-driven All-Star team) the summer before his draft year. Instead, Hunt’s ascent came the following spring, and he got a $1.6 million bonus to keep him from going to Pepperdine.

After parts of three perfectly fine pro seasons (.258/.341/.384), Hunt was 13th on my 2020 Padres preseason list and by the end of the year, rose to 10th by way of trades and graduations. Here’s what I wrote at that time:

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After two consecutive years of above-average offensive performance relative to his league and continued resolve that he is a viable defensive catcher, Hunt now looks like he has a real chance to be an everyday backstop. I’ve seen him pop as low as 1.88 on throws to second and, despite his size, he’s agile enough and has sufficient hands to receive and frame big league stuff. Hunt also has a contact-oriented approach at the plate, one that’s quite conservative (zero leg kick) and doesn’t take full advantage of his movement skills. It relies entirely on Hunt’s hands to generate power, and that will likely result is 12-ish homers and a bunch of doubles. It’s a second-division look to me, but I think there’s more ceiling on the game power if Hunt’s lower half gets more involved in his swing.

Below is backfield video of Hunt that’s emblematic of the swing description at the end of that report.

And here’s backfield video of Hunt this Fall, when he was among the buzzier prospects in Arizona.

He’s still a relatively conservative hitter, but the increased movement in his lower half and some of the strength he’s gained through physical maturity have made a substantive difference to the quality of his contact to my eye. He can stay pretty short to the ball and still generate power to all fields just by turning his top hand over through contact. The gap-to-gap spray of well-struck fly balls combined with his bedrock defensive foundation make Hunt a really good everyday catching prospect. He’ll be toward the back of my overall top 100 later this offseason. Now that the Rays have acquired Patiño, Hunt, and Heriberto Hernandez, they’ve added three top 100 prospects this offseason and now have 10 50 FV or better prospects in their system.

And it’s possible they’ll eventually be joined by Cole Wilcox, the Padres 2020 third rounder, a sophomore-eligible prospect who got a well-over-slot $3.3 million. As a high schooler, Wilcox ranked 14th on our 2018 draft list but some teams were scared of his mature frame and delivery and he ended up at Georgia for two years. Here is his pre-draft report:

Wilcox pitched out of the bullpen throughout much of his freshman year and was routinely sitting 97-99 in that role, often touching 100. As a starter in 2020, Wilcox was sitting 93-96 with more consistent command (he walked no hitters in his final three starts and walked just two in 23 total innings) than he had as a freshman, and more effective slider shape. When it’s right, Wilcox has a biting, two-plane out pitch in the slide piece, which sits in the 85-89 range and often has more length than any pitch that hard has a right to be. Those two pitches and his current command would be enough to project Wilcox in a late-inning bullpen role, but a better change or split (the development of which was slowed by his freshman role) would enable him to be a mid-rotation piece so long as he retains his velo in pro ball, since the shape of the heater makes it velo-dependent.

I did not see Wilcox in the Fall and the trade happened too late for me to source fresh dope from some scouts who did, but I do have some contemporaneous notes from that period that have him going five strong innings several times during San Diego’s Instructional League run. He’s likely to remain in the 45 FV tier this offseason and he projects as an impact piece of some kind, though he’s certainly on the starter/reliever line.

Finally there’s the 25-year-old Francisco Mejía, who has been playing for Estrellas Orientales in the Dominican Winter League and has fallen short of most public-facing prospect writers’ expectations during his parts of four years in the big leagues. The worst case outcome for Mejía was that a) he’d end up not being capable of catching and b) his over-aggressive approach at the plate would make it hard for him to profile as a either third base or in an outfield corner, and both of those things have happened so far.

Mejía, who has been catching marginal stuff in LIDOM, still struggles with both some basic catching fundamentals (he’s a horrendous ball-blocker) as well as the more subtle intricacies of the position. Before trading him to San Diego for Brad Hand, Cleveland tried him at third and in the outfield for a brief stretch, and the Padres continued with some left field trials in 2019. Because Tampa Bay is so thin at catcher (a re-signed Mike Zunino and toolsy, but flawed, Ronaldo Hernández were the only two on the 40-man until this trade), I expect Mejía will come to camp to compete for a share of playing time, but Tampa Bay’s penchant for versatility may cause them to try him elsewhere. If they don’t, he’s an interesting late-game gamble as a switch-hitting, offensive-minded catcher when the Rays are behind. If they’re winning games late, he needs to come off the field. And this of course assumes Mejía ends up being a useful offensive player, which to this point, he hasn’t been because he swings at everything. That’s continued during his 2020 LIDOM stint with las Estrellas, who are giving more reps to Christian Bethancourt than Mejía.

This deal impacts San Diego’s catching situation, too. The recently-acquired Austin Nola has several years of team control left, and I have a stronger evaluation on fellow 2017 draftee Luis Campusano (the Padres took three high school catchers that year, if you count Alaskan infield convert Jonny Homza) than I do on Hunt, so even though they’re parting with two catchers in this deal, the Padres still have two talented big leaguers on their 40-man roster and are trading from a position of strength, which makes losing Hunt sting a bit less. But Campusano is still just 22 and his 2021 status is complicated by a marijuana bust in Georgia (the amount he had on him is a felony there, but a misdemeanor in other states), so now that Mejía is gone, it makes sense for the Padres to acquire a veteran backup sometime this offseason.

It stings to part with a talent like Snell despite his obvious rift with Kevin Cash and the org based on their proactive removal of him during last year’s postseason. Their return includes a pitching prospect who could be at least as good as Snell, and two other players either in or close to the top 100 overall prospects in baseball, which closely mimics the package they got in return for Chris Archer a few years ago.





Eric Longenhagen is from Catasauqua, PA and currently lives in Tempe, AZ. He spent four years working for the Phillies Triple-A affiliate, two with Baseball Info Solutions and two contributing to prospect coverage at ESPN.com. Previous work can also be found at Sports On Earth, CrashburnAlley and Prospect Insider.

99 Comments
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v2miccaMember since 2016
5 years ago

Its the Rays. So at least one possibly two of the prospects in this package will turn into gold for them. That’s that way this works.

Shalesh
5 years ago
Reply to  v2micca

This looks like the Quintana package, an FV60 + FV50 + FV40+ + flier (weird all the hubbub over Mejia’s agent taking a share of his lifetime MLB earnings and it turns out Mejia’s lifetime earnings will be only a bit more than a Middle Manager’s). Snell is a bit better than Quintana but with 1 year of less control so it makes sense.

It’s arguable that Clevinger is better than Snell and had 2.5 years of control, just less than the 3 years Snell has, and yet the Clevinger package seems substantially worse.

It’ll be interesting to see how the Rays fill Snell’s spot this year since Szymborski’s forecast had them struggling to fill Morton’s with possibly Honeywell. Can they fork $15M post-pandemic to a FA for 1 year as they did Morton to keep the club in the Playoffs this year until they dominate in 2022 with Patino & Franco? Or do they slide Patino in now and slide out of the playoffs during his “internship” year?

JoserMember since 2021
5 years ago
Reply to  Shalesh

It’s possible the medicals on Clevinger showed some (borne-out) red flags, and Cleveland couldn’t find a deal they liked better. It’s also possible Cleveland (who didn’t disguise their desperation to trade him) just isn’t as good at maximizing the trades they do make.

fjtorres
5 years ago
Reply to  v2micca

I suspect it’ll be Hunt.
He sounds like a small tweak away from blowing up.
Power and defense just waiting for a contact frequency boost.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  v2micca

Meh. That’s not the way it works. The way it works is that they always acquire more in volume than they trade away, meaning that they have far more chances to hit on a prospect. And for the trades where it doesn’t happen, we just forget about it because it’s not interesting.

FrancoeursteinMember since 2025
5 years ago
Reply to  v2micca

Don’t sleep on Wilcox. As a UGA fan, he looked fantastic during his brief stint in the spring. Dude is filthy.

motleycrue84Member since 2024
5 years ago

What, besides track record, are the differences between Blake Hunt and Tyler Stephenson?

jfree
5 years ago
Reply to  motleycrue84

Fewer syllables?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  motleycrue84

that “besides track record” is doing a lot of work here.

motleycrue84Member since 2024
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

No, I wasn’t trying to be cute there, I was literally asking if there are any differences in their respective profiles besides performance that I am not aware of, as all I really know about Blake Hunt is what I’ve read from Eric and it reminds me of Stephenson

Jim
5 years ago

Outstanding article and a really fun trade for us bored baseball souls out here.

Original Greaser Bob
5 years ago

Any other team unloading players, the ownership is crying poor. The Rays unload all-star players, they’re building depth. But that depth had won the Rays, checks notes, zero world series.

The slavish editorializing had killed this website.

dl80Member since 2026
5 years ago

The difference is that when some teams unload expensive players, they don’t get anything back of value. See: Cincinnati Reds and the Iglesias trade.

jcutigerMember since 2024
5 years ago
Reply to  dl80

Snell’s expensiveness is relative.

Manco
5 years ago
Reply to  jcutiger

Relative because he was an absolute Luxury for the Rays…

They could have kept him and would have if they didn’t just dangle one of the best contracts out there.

There is a double standard for the Rays because they don’t just make dumps. They’ve clearly made these decisions with more calculation than a Betts-Price dump or a Raisel Iglesias dump.

Brock244
5 years ago
Reply to  Manco

“More calculation than a Betts-Price dump”

You do realize, that MLB trade values has the Betts package (Verdugo, Downs, Wong) as more valuable than this Snell package, correct? (Betts package valued at +80mil, Snell package at +60mil). And that was for *1* year of Betts as well as dumping Price, as opposed to 3 years of Snell.

I don’t understand the hate of that trade. The Redsox did a fabulous job with the return they got, especially given the circumstances. If you want to blame the owner for not paying Betts, sure. But the return in it self, was excellent.

Manco
5 years ago
Reply to  Brock244

I’m not comparing returns; I was comparing how the Red Sox and Reds were negotiating from corners (they were forced to make deals) and the Rays aren’t forced…

It’s about making moves that aren’t forced; that is why they don’t get the double standard of this “salary dump”

Brock244
5 years ago
Reply to  Manco

Okay I mis understood your comment. That is fair.

Travis LMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  Manco

How do you know and evaluate how “forced” the deals were?

fjtorres
5 years ago
Reply to  Brock244

Everyday superstar vs star pitcher.
Betts has been great longer, too.
Tampa’s haul is younger with less certainty and more variability.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Brock244

The hate of that trade is that they traded away their best homegrown player since a top-of-the-line Hall of Famer (Wade Boggs) because, after signing Chris Sale and Nathan Eovaldi to ill-advised contracts, they decided they couldn’t afford him. The actual return in a vacuum was actually pretty good.

Mike
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Less so with Price opt outs. Especially if he’s out again this year as rumored.

fjtorres
5 years ago
Reply to  jcutiger

It’s 2020 and it’s Tampa, not one of the bigger budget teams.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
5 years ago

I would only partially agree to that. What the rays do is very smart but it is not good for baseball, it is salary surpressing and also not good for fans if players are interchangeable. The big dynasties all had faces of a franchise playing there for a decade (ruth, jeter, ortiz…).

So it certainly is bad that the rays develope players, use them and then trade them for new prospects before they are about to get paid.

However you also have to consider the financial situation and I rather have a team like the rays doing that constant revolving door than other teams who completely tank.

If everyone was like the rays that would be terrible for baseball but what the rays and As do is still the best what low budget teams can do, better than the full tank, rebuild, tank again model.

But in the end it still is bad that teams like the marlins, rays, As or pirates exist at all.

Mlb should try to resolve that by relocation, contraction, minimum payroll or whatever.

I do admire what the rays do but I don’t want other teams to copy that and that other owners could try to poor man’s copy the rays to justify a low payroll is a bad outlook.

However it is amazing who the rays front office keeps losing guys (friedman, bloom) and still stays on top, they are like a front office factory.

JoserMember since 2021
5 years ago
Reply to  Dominikk85

Neither relocation nor contraction is a sensible solution to the problem you describe.

JoserMember since 2021
5 years ago

This website is dead! That’s why you’re never here commentating! (That place got so popular nobody goes there anymore).

Shauntell47
5 years ago

That so many people continue to measure a team’s success by the amount of rings they obtain boggles the mind. The Dodgers have had a consistently great team for the past 8 years and have 1 ring to show for it.
Why? Because you need a certain amount of good fortune in the playoffs. Visitors of this website should know this.

TerryMc
5 years ago
Reply to  Shauntell47

Exactly. It’s embarrassing watching the Rays deliberately tank year after year and finish two wins short of a World Series title. How can anyone be a fan of a team like that?

JoserMember since 2021
5 years ago
Reply to  Shauntell47

Yeah. Everyone agrees the 1996-2004 Marlins were twice as good as the 1991-1999 Braves, because they have twice as many World Series wins.

Josh
5 years ago
Reply to  Joser

You can’t swing a dead Jeff Loria around these parts without hitting a dozen die-hard Marlins fans! Why, those 2 championships locked-in millions of lifetime loyalties and were the best thing to ever happen to the sport! The Barves, they’re just some losers nobody cares about.

Josh
5 years ago
Reply to  Shauntell47

You mean 1 “ring” to show for it. 2020 is not a real season. (Yes, I am a jerk.)

Manco
5 years ago

Moving Snell was selling high. Snell has fantastic stuff, enough to be an ace; however, he is more streaky than consistent. Rays move on with a huge haul. Now that they’ve moved on from Morton and Snell, they have the needed room to start filtering up their young rotation to the bigs. The stopgaps in Wacha, Fleming, and Richards will do nicely to keep the innings from exploding into a big issue. Guys like Honeywell, McKay, Patino all have avenues to rotation spots in the next two years.

fjtorres
5 years ago
Reply to  Manco

There’s medical issues too.
Not big ones but “loose bodies” and “tired shoulder” at his age are worth keeping an eye on.

Josh
5 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

There isn’t a pitcher alive who doesn’t hurt from the shoulder, down, everyday. So…meh?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Manco

Remember that Snell was one of the few arms in the playoffs, along with Max Fried, who showed he could keep the Dodgers in check. The stuff plays at the highest level, and it has played recently. Like you, I don’t think that’s a good enough reason to make a trade but I suspect that plays into the thinking here.

Manco
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Yeah, his stuff plays but only when it plays. More than half the battle is getting him in the right grove and efficient. That approach doesn’t seem to play for the Rays. That unpredictability is why they made the wrong decision in that game. They clearly would rather pay nothing for 5 innings and pull the player than have to hold the reigns on a stallion. Their strategy isn’t perfect but Fleming and Yarbrough fit perfectly.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Manco

I mentioned this elsewhere too, but the story here is that the Rays don’t see that much of a difference between running a guy out for 3-5 innings instead of 5-7. They’ve decided the cost of consolidating those extra 2 innings in a single player is not worth it, and they seem willing to push this theory pretty far. I’m not entirely buying the theory but it is true that it hasn’t blown up on them so far.

carterMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

He was quite good vs the Dodgers in a small sample. Who knows if that will continue, but still. He seems to be similar in a sense to Clevinger in that he is a very good pitcher who was having “problems” with his current team. Of course the price wasn’t as good, but I certainly do not think Clevinger is as good as Snell. There is a major difference between those two divisions.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
5 years ago

Really smart trade by the rays. What they do is not fan friendly as they don’t really have faces of the franchise that they keep longer than 3-4 years but rays fans are not coming anyway so they shouldn’t complain.

However for their sustained success it is smart to trade all the guys with like 2 years left because it keeps the farm system pipeline flowing and also avoids hefty arb3 salaries (not applicable to snell of course).

Of course it would be better to have a face of the franchise like david ortiz, derek jeter or Mike trout but given what ressources they have that is not an option and they use the ideal approach for success without the need to fully tank.

Develope prospect, bring him up, use him for 3-4 years and then trade for new prospects and repeat the whole cycle is what the rays do.

That allows them to keep a good farm while still never really being worse than like high 70s wins and every couple years they make the post season. That is not sexy but smart.

For the padres that is not bad either, their window to win is the next 3-4 years and snell fits that window.

Brian
5 years ago
Reply to  Dominikk85

This is an extremely smart baseball move for the Rays, no question about it. But the Rays just cut their payroll by ~$20mil and are down into the $50mil range . . . going into the year 2021. They spent more than that all the way back in 2009 ($63mil according to Cots Contracts). There is not a single reason for the Rays to have an opening day payroll that low in 2021. None. The only people that benefit from that are the owners who are worth billions and control dozens of highly profitable assets. True, the Rays averaged just 14k fans per game in 2019. But it doesn’t matter if the Rays have fewer fans than most of the other teams. Those 14k fans and the thousands of others who support the team deserve better.

We can certainly praise the baseball people in Tampa Bay who do the best they possibly can under their budgetary constraints, but the organization as a whole deserves criticism. I don’t blame the Rays front office for any of this so don’t take this as an attack on them.

What we are seeing now is other teams (owners) being hellbent on following this model because there is clear proof that you can compete without ever spending big money. This is a growing trend and it’s bad for players, it’s bad for fans, and it’s bad for the game of baseball. Something needs to change and unfortunately, it’s one of the bigger reasons why there is a strong chance we won’t have a 2022 baseball season.

fjtorres
5 years ago
Reply to  Brian

No reason for a payroll that low?
2020 mini-season without box doesn’t count?
Uncertainty about season length and lack of attendance?
The Rays aren’t the only team trimming expenses, they’re just the most noticeable so far. Wait until you see Cleveland move Lindor, the Cubs move Darvish, and whatever else comes along.

Lower payrolls in 2021 won’t be just a Florida thing.

Brian
5 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

Until they open the books and show the public these losses there is not a single reason why any person should believe that any of these teams are losing money to the extent that they need to severely purge payroll. How much have the owners made prior to the shortened season? You’re going to try and tell fans that all that money is gone or used already on the team? That’s complete bull shit.

Look at what these teams are valued at. Look at how much money these teams are going for in sales. Loria sold the Marlins while getting 700 fans a night, for over a billion dollars after screwing the city of Miami out of tons of taxpayer money. Do you really believe the Marlins are any more profitable than the Rays? The Wilpon’s got over $2 billion during a pandemic for the Mets. Think its a coincidence that the Mets are now in on big-name free agents like Springer and Bauer?

If you can’t afford to spend on payroll then sell the team to somebody who will. Because apparently there are plenty of rich people willing to take an MLB franchise off your hands. The Rays cutting payroll by 20% in one offseason (nevermind the fact that it was already a joke where it was) is an insult to Rays fans and baseball fans in general.

Brian
5 years ago
Reply to  Brian

And the Indians/Cubs are examples of what I was referring to previously. The Dolan’s and Ricketts are not hurting for money. And if they are then they should have ZERO issues proving it.

fjtorres
5 years ago
Reply to  Brian

Why?
They only answer to the IRS.
Not the press, not the fans.
If they choose to run the team as a business, that’s their prerrogative.
Ours is to go to the ballpark or not.

carterMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Brian

Read somebody on Twitter say rooting for a team is like rooting for Walmart or something along those lines. And it is pretty much true. They are just trying to make money, that is it, with few exceptions.

fjtorres
5 years ago
Reply to  carter

Exactly.
Some folks invedt too much of their lives in what is an entertainment business. Or tbe brand of tbeir eletronics toys.

airforce21oneMember since 2026
5 years ago
Reply to  Brian

I agree. People that ask for other people’s money should open their books….which is why you support welfare recipients opening their books as well, right?

If you don’t like the money owners are making, you’re free to spent your money elsewhere. Or you are always free to make more money and buy a team and then spent as much as you’d like on it.

O'KieboomerMember since 2021
5 years ago
Reply to  airforce21one

Baseball team owners and welfare recipients are not the same thing, unless you think publicly financed ballparks and food stamps are the same thing. In which case you’re an idiot.

Brian
5 years ago
Reply to  airforce21one

Nice whataboutism, I can tell you are completely ignorant on this subject but I’ll give you my own whataboutism:

There is one stadium in all of MLB that is funded by private money (even that is debatable) and that is Oracle Park in San Francisco. The other MLB teams used enormous amounts of public, taxpayer money to build their stadiums. For example, the Marlins bilked Miami and Miami-Dade County out of about $500 million to build Marlins Park. How’s that for welfare?

fjtorres
5 years ago
Reply to  Brian

The question isn’t whether they make money or not, but what they *choose* to spend and *when* they choose to spend.
It’s their team, not ours.

Brian
5 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

You moved the goalposts from ‘there’s a reason to cut payroll’ to ‘they can do what they want with their money’.

You’re right that teams are allowed to spend money the way they want. And we, as fans, are allowed to criticize teams who do not spend money in ways that benefit the product on the field when they have plenty of money to do so.

Is it really that hard to see the danger in MLB teams exploiting their labor force (you should see what they pay people on the business side btw)? The way teams are being run only benefits owners. Not you. Not me. Not the players. Not the sport.

Enjoy not having baseball in 2022.

OtterMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

Even badly run businesses have reserves. Don’t for a second think these teams don’t. And if they don’t, then MLB should Frank McCourt them.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Brian

I agree with that. The rays front office is awesome and they deserve praise what they do but what they do is labor exploitation that only works because baseball has artificially low salaries for young players.

Now I get the union has negotiated this but the deal always was underpay young guys and later pay it back by overpaying old guys.

The rays and As break that deal by using the players while they are cheap and then unload them for prospects instead of paying them, that is like a company who always gets new free interns instead of hiring them.

Now I don’t fault the rays for exploiting that loophole but really they are gaming that system to the extreme and since more teams start copying that the system is broken and needs to be replaced.

The system of cheap young labor was supposed to give small market teams a chance but it wasn’t meant as a revolving door for cheap labor.

The system needs change as this is terrible for baseball.

airforce21oneMember since 2026
5 years ago
Reply to  Dominikk85

“Now I get the union has negotiated this but the deal always was underpay young guys and later pay it back by overpaying old guys”

Where in the contract that the union signed does it say that?

fjtorres
5 years ago
Reply to  airforce21one

In the draft bonus slot, the international spending pool, the base pay, and the unwillingness to stand by minor leaguers while pushingfor ever higher FA salaries for the top stars and pushing them to go FA, even when tbey’re happy and making great money on a good team.
That’s not enough?

Dominikk85Member since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  airforce21one

Well obviously the union didn’t sign it but the reason the union agreed to the young player slavery market is that older veterans get those benefits like guaranteed contracts and those long term deals.

The union doesn’t hate young players but they basically sacrificed them for the 27+ year old guys because they can’t have both and older players have more power in the union (and even if you are 23 you are not voting against that because until the next CBA you are a veteran and not benefitting from a new rule for young players).

The deal only worked for the players because deals like pujols or Chris davis were offsetting what juan soto and pre arb Mike trout got.

But when teams stop paying the older guys that doesn’t work anymore because there is no compensation for the low pre arb salaries.

So teams that develope young players and then trade them before they get paid are essentially exploiting that unnaturally low wages for young players.

airforce21oneMember since 2026
5 years ago
Reply to  Brian

Hilarious that someone who follows an analytics website is arguing for a small-market team to act like a large budget team and spend money.

For 90% of the teams out there the front office is intelligent enough to realize that they can’t spent $200 million a year like the Dodgers and Yankees and be competitive every year. Obviously a lot of fans have yet to figure this out. The Rays spending another $50 million next year probably still wouldn’t put them in the same league as the best teams in the league.

I understand it’s easy for someone that has never had money to criticize how others with more money spend said money, but those billionaires generally became billionaires (70% are self-made) for the exact reason that they don’t spend money poorly and understand the exact marginal benefit of each dollar spent.

Clearly, the Tampa Bay Rays doing what they do is bad for baseball. Let’s go back to the Rays of the early 2000’s where they tried to spend money and didn’t value analytics. Brilliant.

O'KieboomerMember since 2021
5 years ago
Reply to  airforce21one

Hilarious that you cannot hold two thoughts in your head at the same time. There is no dichotomy between ‘being smart’ and ‘spending money’, and the call is not for the Rays to make dumb moves, the call is for them to increase their payroll, which should absolutely make them more competitive!

Brian
5 years ago
Reply to  O'Kieboomer

All this tells me is that the propaganda from ownership is winning.

shakeappealMember since 2020
5 years ago

Is Snell even going to stay healthy? I think the Rays cleaned up here.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  shakeappeal

I think so too, and I’m a Rays skeptic. Patino, Wilcox, and Hunt is a great return for almost any player these days. Snell had some great pitching performances against the Dodgers and he was a relatively affordable, controllable starter in a winter where money was tight. The Rays sold high.

OtterMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Maybe they did but the 2021 Rays are worse coming off a World Series appearance which isn’t good for the fans or the game.

airforce21oneMember since 2026
5 years ago
Reply to  Otter

Um, isn’t the Padres getting better “good for the game”?

OtterMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  airforce21one

The Rays and Padres are two different baseball teams.

Cave Dameron
5 years ago
Reply to  shakeappeal

Healthy Snell = Snealthy

dl80Member since 2026
5 years ago
Reply to  Cave Dameron

Unhealthy Snell = Hell?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  dl80

Hellthy.

fjtorres
5 years ago

I wonder who brought Mejia into the trade: Tampa or SD?
Was it, “I’ll take Mejia off your hands” or “you want Hunt, take Mejia”? 😉

Talk about a can’t miss prospect missing big.
He looked great right up to AA…and then he stalled.
I know of “young catcher syndrome” but those guys develop defense at the expense of offense.
After four years the vibe I’m getting is “uncoachable”. They’re rare but they exist.
The talent is there but…
Last chance at 25 is sad.

Dmjn53
5 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

Guys who swing as much as he does can’t be considered “can’t miss”. I’d argue that his profile is the kind of prospect that misses the most

fjtorres
5 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

Players putting up good numbers that way in the low minors are still prospects because tbey’re expected to outgrow that habit by the time they hit the majors. A lot do.
Four years later and no improvement?
Different story.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago

This is your reminder that the Rays do not consolidate. Except for the Tommy Pham trade, where they just shipped off spare parts for an all-star caliber player, I cannot think of a single time they have consolidated. With the exception of that one time, the Rays have always spread their bets.

TerryMc
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

If memory servers, the timing of the Tommy Pham trade also matched up with a potential loss of prospects in the rule 5 draft so it was use it or lose it in regards to consolidating org depth.

carterMember since 2020
5 years ago

While it seems like most pitchers are much better on the Rays for obvious reasons, I suspect Snell is one of the few exceptions who might benefit from a change of scenery.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago

The understated part of this trade is that the Rays have decided they don’t care that much about guys going 7 innings. They kept pulling Snell after 4 or 5 innings, and generally did the same with Glasnow and Morton too. So other teams likely value Snell a higher level than the Rays, because Snell (at least in theory) can function as a traditional starter based on his Cy Young season and the Rays just don’t care about that.

This also figures into the return as well. Patino and Wilcox have great stuff but there are concerns that they might end up as relievers due to command or delivery or other reasons. But the Rays have a lot of experience with guys like that, particularly Glasnow. They’re perfectly happy to run them out for 3 or 4 innings at a time and then pull them. So the Rays likely valued them at a slightly higher level than other teams, since the Rays think they can make them into Glasnow-ish pitchers.

For the record, I have some pretty big questions about both the idea that Snell can function as a traditional starter, and also about the Rays’ belief they don’t need one. Snell has topped 130 innings once in his career, during that Cy Young season, he’s been injured a bit, and has been a bit inconsistent when he pitches (those all may be related to each other). I also keep waiting for the Rays’ experiment with not having any real innings-eaters to blow up on them. At some point you figure their bullpen will just fall apart, but since it hasn’t happened yet, they’re probably going to keep pushing it until they find out what the limit is.

OtterMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

The bullpen did kind of blow up on them in the World Series… SSS obviously

Mike
5 years ago

Do the Rays have the 40 man room to make this work? I have a feeling they might be up to something else and possible Mejia gets flipped.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Mike

I also am skeptical they have the 40-man room to make any of this work but he only has one more option year so whoever tries to develop him is going to have to make both his bat and glove work in pretty short order. So he doesn’t have much trade value.

dl80Member since 2026
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I actually think he might just be a non-tender candidate.

carterMember since 2020
5 years ago

While chatting about the Rays organization I heard a few small negatives regarding Wander Franco. That he had a vladesque groundball rate, and that he was posting below average EV. Is there any truth to that? Does anyone have a link?

Dmjn53
5 years ago
Reply to  carter

The difference is that Franco is going to play an up the middle position, while Vlad Jr. is a 1B in the short term and a DH in the long term. Franco can fall short of his offensive ceiling and be something like a 110-120 wRC+ bat and still be a well above average player. Vlad Jr. needs to be an elite-level bat to avoid being a replacement level DH

carterMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

Oh def. Vlad will do it, the question to me isn’t if it is when. I am mostly thinking of fantasy purposes, which obviously isn’t the purpose of this part of the site, but still.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

This. Franco could use a swing plane change but the hit tool is plus and he can play shortstop so even if he doesn’t make a change he basically is per power surge DJ lemahieu and can hit 300+ with 10-15 homers which makes him very valuable up the middle.

And with a slight change he can probably hit 300 with 25 homers (what lemahieu did in NY) and with a big change 300 with 30+ bombs.

Vlad on the other hand is a DH at this point and needs the pop to be a plus player.

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

The Blue Jays say they are going to give Guerrero another shot at 3rd. I will believe it when I see him start his 50th game there. I can’t stop thinking about the 2 easy foul pop-ups he butchered in the few innings I watched the Jays play in 2020. Major league players go a career without dropping 2 pop flies. I stand by my earlier belief that he is in the running to take the Worst Fielder Ever award from the long time holder, Wily Mo Pena.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

I am interested in this worst fielder award. The problem is that a lot of players who are bad defensively just get moved to a place where they can’t hurt their team. Ryan Braun was almost impossibly bad at third base, but he was in the corner outfield. Adam Dunn was functional if below-average for a while but eventually became nearly unwatchable. Gary Sheffield was comically, historically bad, which is remarkable because of his excellent athleticism. I think pretty much all of them were worse than Wily Mo Pena, who certainly wasn’t a good fielder but doesn’t rise to the historically bad level.

synco
5 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

~8 years ago my fantasy team was very happy when the Tigers decided to give Miggy a second/third chance at 3B, where he was a butcher but picked up eligibility for two years.

JimmieFoxxalorianMember since 2020
5 years ago

You could argue that the Rays ‘won’ based on potential upside of what they received, but I actually like this trade from the Friars perspective. Snell had proven he can shut down their likeliest postseason dance partner, and although Snell is not without some risk, and the Padres gave up valuable talent, this was arguably necessary to maintain their playoffesque level of baseball given the Clevinger injury. And as an organization they’ve been building their prospect depth for years, preparing to be in the position to do these type of deals. Its perfect timing for them to do this deal, and I’m looking forward to what other trades they’ll do next. Padres baseball is finally relevant again…

Dmjn53
5 years ago

You can like it from both perspectives. It’s easy to see why both teams made this trade

fjtorres
5 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

Both addressed pressing needs.
Padres needed a high end pitcher now!
The Rays needed a catcher now and (as always) high ceiling prospect for later.
A good match.

jandrews
5 years ago

I cannot *fathom* why people think “20,000 leagues” was a measure of depth in the Verne novel. It was the distance traveled by the submarine Nautilus. 60,000 nautical miles? The deepest point of the ocean is about 6!

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  jandrews

Perhaps because of the title?

I saw someone once argue that the title is a mis-translation and it refers to the length traveled rather than the depth.

Alice Cooper
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Should have read below first. What Joser said.

*shrug*

JoserMember since 2021
5 years ago
Reply to  jandrews

Yeah, the meaning is “20,000 Leagues Travelled While Submerged”; English versions typically omit the clarifying subtitle that exists in the original French Vingt Mille Lieues Sous les Mers: Tour du Monde Sous-Marin — the literal translation being “Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea: Underwater World Tour”

JoserMember since 2021
5 years ago
Reply to  Joser

I’d add that the translated title wasn’t confusing in English at the time. A 19th century reader, more familiar with “league” as a unit, would be unlikely to make the mistake because nobody measures (or measured) depth in leagues (the likely unit would’ve been fathoms), while it wasn’t unusual to encounter distances expressed in leagues. So the units themselves would’ve made the meaning clear; modern readers, without that context, find themselves wondering if “mauve has the most RAM.”

Connor Grey
5 years ago

The Rays will be criticized for this but they didn’t need Snell to make the postseason next year. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Paniño alone ends up performing comparably to Snell as soon as 2022 and there are three other players too. It sucks that Snell’s not gonna pitch for Tampa anymore but this haul they got back is great and almost certainly best for the team’s long-term outlook.

carterMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Connor Grey

I can see this happening too, but I bet Patino is used frequently in shorter bursts.

WebsMember since 2020
5 years ago

The 20,000 leagues in the title of “20,000 Leagues Under the Sea” refers to horizontal distance travelled, not depth. 20,000 leagues is roughly 70,000 miles.

Manco
5 years ago
Reply to  Webs

yeah, it isn’t clear to those who’ve not read it…

Psychic... Powerless...
5 years ago
Reply to  Webs

Also, the traveling occurs not under the sea but in the sea.

Josh
5 years ago

With the just-announced Alvarado trade, Tampa is officially trolling FG now. I like it.