Angels Acquire Andrelton Simmons
Editor’s note: Jeff wrote this as an InstaGraphs post when the trade was announced, but when I got around to looking at it, I noticed he wrote almost 900 words. That’s a normal-length FanGraphs post, so I’m moving it to the front page. I’m leaving the IG post up in its original place so that your comments will be retained, however.
UPDATE: Angels also getting catcher Jose Briceno. Briceno is 23, and he spent last year in high-A, but he also posted an OPS of .482, and, yes, that’s a 4, and no, that’s not a mistake. Of course, he’s hit better in the past. He’s been a decent prospect in the past. Right now, his career needs to be rescued.
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The day began with thoughts on a potential Andrelton Simmons blockbuster. As the day ends, half of what was discussed has come true — Simmons has been traded, and even to the general Los Angeles area. He just hasn’t been traded to the Dodgers, or for Yasiel Puig.
Rather, Simmons’ new teammates will be the rest of the Angels. And, headed to the Braves in exchange: Erick Aybar, Sean Newcomb, Chris Ellis, and a bit of money.
#Braves trade Simmons to #Angels for Newcomb, Ellis, Aybar and about $3M
— Joel Sherman (@Joelsherman1) November 12, 2015
The money is in there to cancel out the difference between Simmons and Aybar’s 2016 salaries. Beyond that, Aybar will be a free agent, whereas Simmons is under contract through 2020. His future salaries:
- 2016: $6 million
- 2017: $8 million
- 2018: $11 million
- 2019: $13 million
- 2020: $15 million
For the Angels, this is about the shortstop position both short-term and long-term. In the short-term, while Simmons is younger than Aybar, they project to hit about the same. But the defensive difference is made evident by this table, comparing Inside Edge fielding results. What you see are rates of plays made on opportunities in different categories, separated by difficulty.
| Player | Remote | Unlikely | Even | Likely | Routine |
| Simmons | 9.3% | 45.1% | 73.8% | 81.9% | 99.0% |
| Aybar | 0.6% | 27.6% | 42.9% | 74.8% | 96.5% |
Simmons leads everywhere, which of course shouldn’t be a surprise, because Simmons is considered perhaps the best overall defensive player in the game, while Aybar is more of a bat-first shortstop who didn’t hit in the most recent season. So Simmons makes the Angels better now, and he gives them another long-term core piece who’s never going to be a true financial albatross. Simmons, to this point, hasn’t really hit. His career wRC+ is 84, and he peaked as a rookie. But as much as some people complain that defensive stats are unreliable, there’s no question about what Simmons can do, and about how much he can help. He’s not a player who looks good in the numbers, only. He’s a player who’s obviously good, and though his defense will decline with age, it’s not going to drop off a cliff in the next five years. At least, there’s no reason to expect that.
But you don’t need to be convinced that Simmons is an upgrade over Aybar. The Angels are paying a real cost here, in the form of their top two pitching prospects. Newcomb is a 22-year-old lefty who reached Double-A. Ellis is a 23-year-old righty who also reached Double-A. Newcomb was picked in the first round two years ago, while Ellis was picked in the third.
The Angels do have some decent rotation depth. Garrett Richards is controlled through 2018. Tyler Skaggs, 2019. Matt Shoemaker, 2020. Andrew Heaney and Nicholas Tropeano, 2021. To say nothing of Jered Weaver and C.J. Wilson, veterans who’ll be free agents next fall. The cupboard isn’t bare. But this is still a major sacrifice, yet another injection of young pitching talent into the Braves’ developing system. The Braves, pretty clearly, believe strongly in their organizational ability to get the most out of talented pitchers. Newcomb and Ellis could be long-term assets. They just need to be polished.
Last year, throughout the minors, 578 pitchers threw at least 100 innings. Newcomb had the eighth-highest walk rate. Ellis was 47th, his rate spiking in Double-A. Right there, you get the message — pitchers good enough to be drafted high, but pitchers with real bouts of wildness. They obviously can’t be written off or anything, but it’s easy to understand the optimism and the skepticism. Some people prefer their pitchers to have a foundation of good raw stuff. Other people prefer a foundation of good command. Newcomb and Ellis are a bit riskier.
Newcomb is the better get, and the rest of the picture is that he also posted the sixth-highest strikeout rate. He had an ERA under 2.50, so the upside is evident, and he could be a quick mover. He could show up to help the Braves as soon as this season. But, you know how pitchers are. It’s another roll of the dice. There’s no knowing what Simmons will be in a few years, but he feels projectable. The pitchers could be almost anything. The Braves’ll hope they can be big-league pitchers by 2017 or so.
The Braves’ offensive plan appears to be: make sure to have Freddie Freeman, and the rest will work out somehow. The crop of pitchers is ahead of the crop of position players, and losing Simmons doesn’t help that, but if the Braves figure they’ve seen the best Simmons has to offer, then Newcomb is a high-upside asset to add to a huge collection of big arms. The Braves have made it no secret they’re building around pitching. It’s no secret that comes with its own challenges. I’m sure they’re excited to welcome the challenge of Sean Newcomb.
Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.
It is reasonable to assume that the Angels are trying to lay a defensive foundation akin to that of the Royals with strong defenders Trout and Calhoun already in the mix. Accordingly, I wouldn’t be surprised if they strongly go after Alex Gordon to plug LF and create handedness balance (does that work lol?) in the lineup. Wieters’ name is mentioned as a target, but I personally would be wary of his body type and injury history if I had to spend big money on him.
#CardsMagic #BetterThanYourOrg
Royals fans just can’t stop pretending that Cardinals fans think about them.
#FakeRivalry #RoyalsComplex
How did you write a comment about Royals fans without thinking about them?
…and this is why everyone thinks Cardinals fans are annoying as hell.
Or Heyward, if they want to go all in on 26 year old defensive studs who’ve shown previous good power numbers for the Braves
I wouldn’t necessarily say they’re basing it off of the royals. Whether it’s offense or defense, an upgrade is an upgrade.
you think they will trade trout then?
Love it as an Angels fan.
As you should. Simmons is the best defensive player in baseball and his hitting tools are not that bad. He’s still young, and he’s had Greg Walker as his hitting coach (Walker was absolutely terrible) for most of his career. As a rookie, he hit 17 homers before Walker screwed him up. This year, he bumped his batting average and OBP up like 20+ points each. With good coaching, he can be a plus bat with his all-world defense.
Kevin Seitzer is the hitting coach for the Braves.
Seitzer is.
Walker was.
Simmons+Trout=the most entertaining team in baseball. And that doesn’t even count Calhoun’s bat flips and gold glove right fielding or Jered Weaver’s fluttering 81 mph fastball and Pujols’ majestic homers we’ll tell our kids about. I cannot imagine not wanting to watch these guys next year.
I’m with you on Simmons+Trout, but call me when your pitching staff includes Clayton Kershaw and Aroldis Chapman, the homers are being hit by Giancarlo, your second baseman is Jose Altuve, and everybody is giving Adrian Beltre constant head-rubs.
Also throw in Bartolo Colon, Pat Venditte, and Jonny Gomes. And hire Harold Reynolds to broadcast.
Do people really think I flip my bat after a dinger? It’s just the natural movement from my hands. It flips outta there, but not high up in the air. I mean, really, what constitutes a bat flip? I need to know.
You bat-flip after every ball put in play. Grounder to second? Line drive to left? Popup to the first baseman? You bat-flip. It’s the natural finish of your swing and it is GORGEOUS.
Seriously. I can’t have been the only person to notice this and specifically start watching you because I just love your swing. You’re one of my five favorite players because of it. Is that weird? I’ve made things weird, haven’t I? I never know what to say when I meet famous people.
Is it a bat flip, is it a bat drop?
It’s both of those things.
Let’s just call it a bat drip.
there’s probably 3 categories to leaving the bat behind. a flip, a throw, and a drop.
And tomahawk.
After you hit a homerun, you lay your bat down gingerly with the Louisville Slugger logo facing up, and cover your etched in signature with dirt. That’s hitting a homerun the right way.
I’m for the Texas Toss every time.
I love this deal from the angels’ perspective. The floor with simmons is just really solid. Braves are kind of going boom or bust with this deal, IMO. If they get only 1 number 2 pitcher i feel like theangels win, but if both pan out to something better than a 4 then yeah braves win. Angels’ end is really safe, simmons could ops 650 for all i care, just keep fielding which “probably” should be ok for the next 3 years. After that, just dont fall off a cliff and its still all good.
If anyone is moderating these comments, watch out for the Braves fans. They’re explosively against this trade and blowing up the Braves’ blogs.
Yeah, I’m not even going to look at Talking Chop tonight.
Not sure why they would be so against it. Seems like a good move for the Braves IMHO. Instead of wasting Simmons’ value on a bunch of 70 win seasons they traded him at/near peak value for a decent return that will be probably be more in line with their window of contention.
But I guess objectiveness is not a trait of fandom sometimes.
There’s little room for objectivity when you’re rooting for laundry.
Well the plan for the Braves was to be good sometime before Simmons loses value. Supposedly, anyway, but this move would indicate otherwise.
At least they didn’t trade him for Garry Templeton.
Braves offer Aybar, Newcomb and Ellis to the Dodgers for Puig – who hangs up first lol??
Is John Coppolella calling the shots in Atlanta, or Biff Pocoroba? Sheesh!!
You’ve got to believe that Aybar is on the block, honestly. The Braves aren’t attempting to compete in 2016.
So they’re going to try to flip the non-prospect in this deal for more prospects.
They’ll wait until July, when his value is very likely to be higher than it is right now – based both on the likelihood he hits better than he did last year, and demand will likely be higher.
Or am I over-thinking?
That was what they did several times last season (take on veterans who figure to bounce back a bit) and flip them, so I think you’re right on.
Unless they assume he will turn down a qualifying offer. If he does then they’re also getting a 1st round pick here.
Aybar isn’t a certainty to get a QO next year.
He’ll be 33 by the start of the 2017 season. He’s last 3 seasons are 1 WAR in 2015, 4.3 WAR in 2014 (a 101 wRC+, but also an oddly high defensive rating), and 1.5 WAR in 2013. If he puts up another 1 to 1.5 WAR season, I doubt that he’ll receive a QO next year. If in 2016 gets back to being a league average hitter and looks OK in the field, though, he very well may get a QO.
Dave T, yeah I wasn’t saying the will for sure extend the QO. I should have said that.
Either way, they probably add something at deadline (probably not much) or, if he has a good season, a potential compensation pick. Worst case scenario may be if he accepts the QO.
there is a risk to this, you kind of need a teem to have a need at shortstop that is competing. granted he can play second as well. still a little bit of a risk, most contenders are generally pretty solid up the middle, granted not all(looking at you mets)
A trade to the Mets makes sense, and maybe now rather than at the deadline. If he plays in NY all season then they can offer him a QO, if he’s dealt at the deadline, then they can’t.
That’s what they did what Uribe and Johnson
Throw in Richards and Shoemaker and we’ll talk.
To what end is the Braves front office making all these deals that involve trading proven value (including the best fielder of this generation) for risk? The Marlins are known for these tactics, and Loria gets reasonably pilloried for it. I see what the Braves are doing as no more than Loria’s strategy injected with sabermetric steroids. I don’t like it.
You see what they’re doing, though… trading assets for high-risk but also high-upside prospects. That’s been the modus operandi for the past year. The theory is that, even though they probably won’t all work out, if the pool is big enough, some big-time players should emerge eventually. It’s a heck of a gamble. The Braves figure they have enough of a statistical edge to beat the house. We’ll see.
Yeah I see what they’re doing. The modus operandi of the past year, however, was that they would keep at least a few proven, core players- perhaps as a hedge against the high-risk strategy going wrong.
To further extend the Marlins comparison- and my main concerns- whose to say Liberty Media doesn’t plan on following Loria’s footsteps? What if they keep constantly trading assets for risk, especially after 2017 has come and gone? At what point does a fetish for business-savvy deals obfuscate the whole point of baseball, whether it’s winning, consistently having a chance, or the sentimentality of having a core group of players? /rant
The sentimentality of having a core group of players? The reserve clause days want their baseball back.
As a Braves’ fan who love Simmons, who is a Simmons fan and also a little drunk, I’ll just sum up my thoughts (although maybe a little irrational) in three words:
DAMMIT. GOD DAMMIT.
See? I’ve already screwed up my post with typos!
Trading proven talent for risk is literally what every single rebuilding team ever does. That’s what rebuilding is.
This is true. Of course, this full rebuild was never actually necessary, but that’s beside the point.
It’s all about what talent is being traded for what risk. I can’t help but feel that the Braves are trading too much risk for their established talent.
We do not make front office decisions for the Braves at all. Our only mandate is to not lose money.
Agreed.
It’s not so much that the idea of rebuilding and adding unproven talent is bad, but that they’re betting on the wrong guys imo.
Seemingly everyone they’ve acquired lately is super-high risk even as prospects go. f.e. Newcomb and Touki are each basically a bad adjustment away from full-blown Steve Blass disease. Those guys are high upside, it’s true, but given that every prospect is high risk and something like 75% of even top 50 prospects don’t pan out, determinedly adding prospect after prospect who have even higher than average risk seems foolhardy at best and suicidal at worst.
You don’t often see guys signed below market value for 5 seasons traded. That’s a lot of surplus value to send out. And Simmons has a very high floor, with an upside around 4 WAR.
It’s actually quite rare to see pieces like this moved.
i think you’re a high floor to say his upside is only 4 WAR. thats basically his floor. entering prime, only a .268 career babip. his contract is the perfect length for a glove first guy too.
To be clear, 4 WAR is *NOT* Simmons’ floor. That’s such a heinous misuse of that term. Lawd.
Well yeah, Simmons’ floor is quite clearly around 2 WAR. That’s not what I said. I said his upside is around 4 WAR.
he was 4 war last year per baseball reference, and a guy with his low k rate will most likely only improve. using fangraphs war as your only source of it is using war incorrectly. i highly doubt he ever puts up a 72 wRC+ so yes his floor is higher than 2…
Umm trading for prospects isn’t why everyone hates Loria. It’s because he intentionally runs his team into the ground and doesn’t spend anywhere commensurate with revenue + revenue sharing.
The Braves are rebuilding. This is what rebuilding looks like.
Highest Def WAR in 1st 4 Seasons (per @baseball_ref)
Andrelton Simmons 15.2
Ozzie Guillen 12.0
Phil Rizzuto 10.1
Andruw Jones 10.0
Which makes this horrible trade not just a crime, but a mortal sin.
Angels trade two of their best prospects, pitchers Sean Newcomb and Chris Ellis and Aybar, all to fill a hole that didn’t necessarily exist.
The entire Angels pitching staff just got “better” today. That’s not nothing.
Chris Ellis isn’t that great and would look worse in a decent farm system; Aybar is an average player with only 1 yr of team control left; Newcomb has good potential, but he also hasn’t shown any ability to throw strikes; while Simmons is a young, good-to-great starter with 5 years of control left at a bargain $53 million.
Angels did good.
I’m not saying they didn’t do good, but now they have to do ALL their work on the FA market and already have a large payroll. They have a hole at 3B, 2B, and LF. I don’t think the SP’s and RP’s are as bad as other folk. Anyways, they better hope that they don’t need a July acquisition because the farm system is awful now.
c.j wilson or matt shoemaker for starlin castro or baez? plug at second or 3rd. down to 2 holes.
Cubs can get more than an SP coming off surgery. Hendricks and J Hammel are both better than Shoemaker.
Plus Angels would be robbing Peter to pay Paul because now you DO make the rotation a hole.
they are 7 deep at sp, taking one away is hardly creating a hole. j hammel is not better than either of those guys. he had 2 monster first halfs that make him appear better and more reliable.
Okay bud. You’re just wrong there. None of that will happen. And having one #2 and six #4’s and #5’s isn’t deep. Heaney could be a 3. But the cubs don’t need any of those poop pitchers. They’re going to sign a legit pitcher who doesn’t suck and your Castro/Baez dream won’t even have a shot.
It’s got to be worth pointing out that the Angels trailed the AL in 2015 in hits, doubles, and team AVG, were 14th in OPS, and 12th in OBP, right? Simmons is a great defensive SS, obviously, but they’re also a lackluster hitting team that puts a lot of stock in Pujols (who is only going to get older, and keep declining), and they just traded Aybar for a shortstop who is likely to be at least a slight offensive downgrade.
They project basically the same offensively next year, .269/.306/.365 for 88 wRC+ for Aybar and .262/.314/.370 for 87 wRC+ for Simmons
Simmons was slightly better than Aybar offensively last year. He is also younger with more offensive upside.
Park effects. . . .
Angels were 10th in wRC+ which ain’t great but a darn sight better than the 14th numbers you’re citing. It’s the same reason the Angels were 11th in pitching WAR despite being 6th in raw ERA.
(not on topic but one of the more over-looked things about Trout is that he puts up league leading numbers in one of the worst hitters’ parks in MLB)
Angels still have issues no question and yes they would have been better off trading for Correa, Lindor or Crawford but they weren’t getting any of those guys for Aybar and 2 prospects. This is a huge win for the Angels.
YESSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
White Sox acquire 1B Freddie Freeman and a player to named later from the Braves in exchange for 1B Adam LaRoche, 3B Matt Davidson, RHPs Nolan Sanburn and David Trexler, and $2 million cash.
David Trexler doesn’t sound like a real name. Might as well go all in if you’re going to fake a name. I like Alex, so let’s make it crazier… Mallex! I like the Smithsonian Museum, so let’s make it the a name that would be too boring even for a museum… Smith!
White Sox acquire right benchman Mallex Smith and a baseball bat to be named later from the Braves in exchange for deputy batboy Christopher Tolkien, baseball operations intern Sharon HooksForHands, and the lyrics from that crappy song sung by Brad Pitt’s daughter in Moneyball.
UPDATE: The Milwaukee Brewers have acquired the Turner Field statue of Hank Aaron, his retired #44 jersey, and the 1995 Braves World Series trophy for pitchers Tyler Linehan, Nattino Diplan, Yan de la Cruz, racing sausage Brett Wurst, and $323,749 cash.
With a name like Brett Wurst, his career path seemed predetermined to lead to the racing sausages at Miller Park…
Wurst will probably be the every day 3B and bat fifth for the Braves this year.
UPDATE: The Braves just traded the rest of their players with positive 2015 WAR values for $24 worth of beads, blankets and mirrors.
I pity you poor Brave fans. This should never have happened. Might I suggest following the Cubs or Astros instead?
From the Braves’ point of view this is a terrible trade. Just plain stupid.
Watch this trade make the “Ten Worst Trades of All Time” list before long.
Honestly…what trade in the top all time worst trades involved the team giving up the established player? Those lists always include the guys who were shipped off before they became amazing.
Angels trade Juan Rivera & Mike Napoli to the Blue Jays for Vernon Wells…. You don’t always need to give up prospects to nearly ruin a franchise.
The established player or trade target there was Wells. His point still stands.
As a neutral observer I like the Braves side of this. Upset Braves fans are saying they could have recieved a better package, which is arguable since they took this package, what they percieved to be the top one. Centered around a stud LHP who’s a top 20 prospect. It’s more likely Simmons bat is what it is at this point than having it improve above league average. And if that’s true his value is mostly in the next few years. The Braves have Albies in the system, they obviously think he’s the SS of the future.
As a neutral observer I was thinking the same thing. Until the papers are signed other teams are allowed to say “whoa Braves, you are getting shorted, and we will exceed that offer.” If nobody does that then you have to think the other GM’s think it’s fair. I’m sure ATL told every interested team what the Angels return was to see if they would beat it. I like to think that’s what happens on the trade market.
thats all super shady, and the gm that did wouldn’t be getting any favors next time he goes calling around.
Only if they had agreed to the Angels offer (like with the Cliff Lee trade in 2010), otherwise, that’s just called “negotiating.”
i think he was implying it was agreed to.
**Angels’ OFFFER (Braves’ return)
This argument has never made much sense. Just because a team perceives a package to the be the best, it doesn’t mean they’re right. I understand you’re trying to apply some basic economic principles, but you’re trying to do so in a way that runs counter to those principles when they’re applied in the real world.
As a different neutral observer (Orioles fan), I have no idea how anyone would like this deal for the Braves. Even an optimistic take would be that it’s not a complete and utter disaster, because it quite possibly could be. I am not someone who overrates Andrelton Simmons. I was one of the few on this site insisting twenty-one months ago that his contract extension was not some massive bargain and arguing against the popular narrative that Simmons was going to keep improving offensively. That said, this deal is indefensible. Simmons is known to have elite defensive value, and while that will decline, it isn’t expected to do so precipitously. There’s no reason for us to believe that his value would be significantly less in November 2016 than it is now, and there is a non-zero possibility that his value could increase by then with offensive improvement.
Sean Newcomb is not “a top 20 prospect.” Some lists may end up placing him there, but that would be a mistake. He’s a left-handed Archie Bradley with worse breaking stuff. Maybe he will develop better command than Bradly, but right now the only two things that stand out about him are a great fastball and being left-handed. I am not a fan of his delivery. Newcomb’s front foot lands to the first-base side of his back foot, meaning he ends up throwing across his body. That creates deception, but it also explains why he struggles to command his pitches because he’s having to yank them back across his front leg.
Simmons’ value is mostly in the next few years, but while I’m high on Albies, he’s an eighteen year old who just completed a season in Low-A. You don’t trade a major league asset because of a prospect you like in Low-A. You also don’t trade a major league asset for fifty cents on the dollar because you’re not expecting to be competitive this season.
If Sean Newcomb was Sean Nunez from Cuba and a free agent would he get a 30-40mm offer. I think so but can’t know for sure. Simmons has about that in surplus value so you can make an argument either way on this one. I feel like the return is about even though I do have a slight preference for the Angels side of the trade in a vacuum.
I don’t believe it’s likely that Newcomb will provide $35+ million in surplus value to the Braves, but we’ll see.
Well all I can say is they aren’t going to be ready for their brand new stadium in 2017. This is two terrible trades, two huge reasons to go see the Braves now gone. Wish I could feel great about what they got in return. Won’t be visiting Atlanta anytime soon.
There is no doubt the Braves have quite the stockpile of arms.
But what about the everyday eight? SS Ozhaino Albies is at least two years away. CF Mallex Smith made strides in 2015 and will be one upper-level position player that will arrive this season. 3B Rio Ruiz, OF Dustin Peterson and OF Braxton Davidson are not surefire major league starters.
Christian Bethancourt took a big step back and not sure how Hector Olivera, now 30, figures into the 2018 outlook, the earliest they can expect to be competitive.
I wouldn’t trade Freeman considering all the holes they have.
they are collecting arms, now they can start dealing big league pitching at the deadline for those everyday 8. teheran or miller in a deadline deal this year, the other next offseason is how i see it. by midseason one of the minor’s guys will be ready. next year another one. not too mention maybin, still got a couple chips.
The issue is that Freeman’s only real value to the Braves was as trade material. It’s difficult to understand why Braves fans are upset. Watching a young, rebuilding team has to be more interesting than what’s been on the field.
Before this deal I wouldn’t have wanted the Braves to trade Freeman, but if you can get a ton of surplus value of the next 6-7 years for him, I think it’s a deal worth considering.
Just thinking about teams in “win-now” mode that have both the need and the prospects for a player like Freeman takes my thoughts to the Pirates. If the Braves were able to wrangle Meadows and Bell away in a deal for Freeman, that would have to be worth doing, right? (I realize that I may be overvaluing what Freeman would bring back here).
If Freeman is dealt, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, and maybe Milwaukee seems like the most likely landing spots.
I’m fantasizing about an Andrelton Simmons-Daniel Murphy double play combinaton.
I love baseball
Are you kidding me? This was a steal for the Angels. Chris Ellis is 23 and his stats look awful to this point. Newcomb looks legit, but is still deep in the minors, so anything could go wrong. Andrelton is reliable, and very cost-effective for any team in the league, and his offense could improve with a new team.
Basically, the Braves swapped an inexpensive, young quality player for what appears to be 1 young, potentially good player who could also bust.
newcombe busting is a decent reliever tbh. so still value. but i agree because of the d and contact ability simmons is as consistent as you’ll get.
I like the deal for the Angels too but Newcomb rose to AA, not deep in the minors, and though he walked a lot, he still had a low ERA as. 22 YO, which is stupendous for a 22YO. He looks like the real deal and should reach majors sometime next season.
But have to love the move for Angels, they have a lot of young pitchers already doing OK in the majors, and they won’t all pan out, so I see their next move to be to get a proven SP to add to mix.
Nice article, good rundown! I would add that the Angels have Hector Santiago, who did well for them in 2015, another good and young arm in the rotation.
At this point, maybe the Braves should send Freeman, Bourn and Swisher to the Red Sox for Hanley and a couple of pitching prospects. They can then just put Hanley at 3B and trade him off once he rebounds to some respectable offensive numbers.
I kinda liked Anaheim.
Could this be part 1 of a slow motion 3 way deal? Pitching is currency, and right now the Braves are loaded; 8 of their top 10 prospects are pitchers. Could this allow them to move Teheran and/ or Miller for other long term assests from a team that needs pitching, such as the Cubs?
As a Braves fan, I must say this is going to be a miserable year. What the hell do we have to look forward to?
Even though I now thing the team got good value, I agree as a Braves fan. The only thing worth watching on the team last year was the 1-2 crazy Andrelton plays a game, and now we don’t even have that.
It may lead to more “winning” in the future, but baseball has to be about more than just winning. Watchability for this team is 0 now.
It gets better.
Maybe, but when the Royals were bad that didn’t move Kaufmann from a 5-min drive from you house out to the suburbs. My concern is even if the team ends up good in a few years, am I really going to care by that point?
Braves fans have nothing to look forward to. Zip. Nada. Nothing. The idiots in the Braves front office just traded your best player for nothing. Time to find a team to support that actually knows how to make trades.
As an Astros fan, I know the answer the this question, The 2017 First-Year Player Draft. Also, much more room to spread out at the park, greatly increased odds of catching a souvenir (This was my first year in 3 season that I did not either catch, or carefully walk up/down a few rows to pick up a foul ball), and significantly cheaper second hand seats.
Feel free to ask any other rebuild questions, and I’ll be happy to answer.
This reminds me of the Tulo trade. One team gets much better defensively in a position at the cost of some prospects.
It may be a fair trade but its not neccessarily great asset management.
Bad trade, bad asset management. Trading away the underpaid team-controlled best defensive shortstop since Ozzie for three stacks of steaming garbage guarantees this trade a place on the “worst trades of all-time” list.
And I’m not even a Braves fan. You should go by their forums and see the lynch mobs forming.
As a fellow non-Braves fan, I have to agree. That’s all it took to get Simmons? With that contract? I feel like the Reds got a similar to superior return for a half season of Johnny Cueto, as well as the Tigers for a half season of Price. Wow.
This is the worst trade I’ve seen in decades. It’s just effing stupid on every level.
The Braves should hire Ruben Amaro, Jr. as their next GM. It would be a huge step up.
This is the worst trade I’ve seen in decades.
This isnt even the worst trade in the past 12 months.
Seems pretty fair. Both sides have valid arguments, but I think people are missing the point for the Braves. This is not about a Simmons trade, or a Heyward trade, or a Gattis trade, or any individual player for that matter. The MO is clear: Stockpile young, upside arms. With pitcher attrition rates what they are and the seemingly random cases of guys “figuring it out,” throwing spaghetti at the wall is a perfectly reasonable game plan. The Mets just made a world series run backed by 3 young power arms. The Braves could, and most likely will, “lose” the majority of these deals, but if they come out of it with a good, young rotation plus money saved,it was all worth it.
As for the Angels, the farm is gutted, but who cares. What player better than Simmons were they getting for those two? They improve their run prevention without having to overpay a pitcher, and they fill the future void at SS with Aybars pending FA. Gotta prioritize now when you’ve got Mike Trout in his prime.
Maybe ATL will go full Sam Hinkie and trade Freeman for 3-4 more young arms? Freeman is not really on any use to them on the field at this point…
I didn’t think so before, but now I think Freeman is likely to be traded.
As a Braves fan, I would LOVE to see him sent to Pittsburgh for Meadows and Bell, although I think that’s probably too strong of a package to expect in return. Maybe he could be packaged with one of the Braves many pitching prospects and bring a return like that?
More likely they just didn’t think Simmons skill set would age well enough to fit their window. Freeman bat should remain valuable through the length of his contract.
As a Pirates fan, I will put Bell on the table with any other prospect not named Glasnow, Taillon, or Meadows. I’d probably do it for Taillon too but I just have an irrational pipe dream of him proving me wrong (I couldn’t believe the Pirates passed on Machado).
I think you guys are way undervaluing Freeman. He is 26 and the equal of Goldy and Rizzo. That is a true franchise player. And he is under a reasonable contract for 8 years. And that contract will be laughably cheap in 4 years. He isn’t Trout and he isn’t Harper but he is right up there in that next level. And if ATL wanted Harvey for Simmons…
how is he the equal of rizzo and goldy?
Kiley McDaniel is trolling us
I’d like to think somewhere Kiley is banging his head on a wall shouting at the other Braves personnel, “No, you idiots! Sabermetrics doesn’t mean we ignore defense. Stop relying on the movie Moneyball for your knowledge!”
I don’t understand Braves Fan’s negative response to this trade. Simmons was great defensively, but any regression at the plate and he’s basically Pokey Reese. Hard to say that’s worth $12-$15MM for 3 years.
Cop is clearly taking 2 pages from the John Hart book of re-building. Hart was able to get Vizquel because Seattle had A-Rod in the wings. Hart was also never able to get that ace the Indians needed. So Cop seems to be stockpiling the arms to grow the ace, and felt that he had his “A-Rod” in Albies so he’s dealing from a position of strength.
It’s also very curious that so many people are deriding this move so strongly as though Kiley didn’t have any input into the potential of Newcomb & Ellis. Last year he said Newcomb’s “off-speed stuff plays more to a 55 on a consistent basis, but the raw elements are here for an ace if Newcomb can make all the necessary adjustments”.
I’m not a fan of either team, but simply based on the Kiley’s track record and presumed input, I like this more for the Braves in the long-run (though it sucks for them in the short-run).
As a Braves fan, I think a lot of people are getting caught up on the “best defensive player in MLB” thing and forgetting that he’s a bad baserunner and hitter. If another 3 WAR player with the same contract had been traded for the same package people would be saying the Angels got ripped off.
The possibility (albeit small) does exist that his bat regresses to the point where he’s basically Adam Everett, and then everyone loves the trade for Atlanta.
TINSTAAPP
Yes and no.
If this were 100% true, nobody would ever trade for minor league pitchers.
Maybe 30% true? 40%? Definitely less than 100%.
Defensive SS who can’t hit are not a rare commodity. Simmons making way too much money after 2016 for a glove only player. Good move for the Braves, not good for the Angels.
He is a great defensive SS, but the Angels need offense. Eppler would have done better signing Stephen Drew for 3 million. He can field and go yard once in awhile