Bad Injury News for Ryu and Tatis Jr. Alters Divisional Races

Fernando Tatis Jr.
Orlando Ramirez-USA TODAY Sports

Two major bits of unpleasant injury-related news hit the headlines on Tuesday afternoon. First, the Blue Jays announced that Hyun Jin Ryu, a key cog in the rotation, would undergo elbow surgery that would result in him missing the rest of the entire 2022 season. Over in the NL West, a scheduled CT scan revealed that Fernando Tatis Jr. had not seen enough healing in his wrist to allow him to start swinging a bat. Both of these injuries are of the type that could impact the divisional races.

For both Ryu and the Jays, his sore elbow is a major hit. Jay Jaffe has already touched on the impact to Toronto’s rotation from the loss of Ryu. In his case, there were clear signs of something being not quite right leading up to his initial trip to the shelf. Per Jay:

This is already Ryu’s second trip to the injured list this season. After lasting just 7.1 innings over his first two starts and allowing a total of 11 runs, he landed on the IL on April 17 with what was described as forearm inflammation. Upon returning to the Blue Jays on May 14, he fared somewhat better, yielding just six runs (five earned) in 19.2 innings over four starts, but his average four-seam fastball velocity decreased by about one mile per hour from outing to outing, from a high of 90.3 mph on May 14 to a low of 87.6 on June 1 — a troubling trend.

Back then, the timetable was reported to be at least multiple weeks. Full Tommy John surgery would obviously end Ryu’s 2022 campaign, but we’re far enough into the season that even repair of a partially torn UCL wouldn’t allow him to return in the fall. If he should require the full surgery, his 2023 season would definitely be in peril, with only a late-season return being feasible. He’s a free agent after the 2023 season, too, so there’s a very real possibility that he’s played his last game in a Jays uniform.

I wouldn’t characterize it as good news, but Ryu’s previous Tommy John surgery was a long time ago, undergone in 2004 when he was still in high school, meaning he got most of a professional career out of his first surgery before a possible revision procedure. Unfortunately, in one study, less than half of pitchers needing a second procedure returned to pitch at least 10 games.

For a pitcher, the only “good” time to have Tommy John surgery is in retirement. It’s a particularly bad time for the Jays as well. As I wrote about last week, this is the middle of the best two-week period for the Jays to gain ground on the Yankees. Toronto has mostly done its part, winning six of nine against the Orioles, Tigers, and Royals, but New York has continued to win as well; the Jays have actually lost two games in the standings over that stretch, making their task even more difficult.

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Ross Stripling, who has done yeoman’s work in a swing role this year, will continue to fill in for Ryu. With Nate Pearson still out from a case of mono that has sidelined him for months, Toronto’s depth has become perilously thin. With 38 games remaining with the playoff-relevant AL East teams (sorry, O’s), without an addition to the roster, the Jays may be an injury away from having Bowden Francis or Casey Lawrence making high-leverage starts down the stretch. My hope is the Jays seize the moment and start trying to pry Luis Castillo, Tyler Mahle, or Frankie Montas away from their current employers.

Thanks to the performance of the Yankees, Toronto’s divisional probability dropped off this week even before the news that Ryu was going to miss the rest of the season, going from 29.4% on the morning of June 7 to 20.8% on June 13. Without Ryu, that drops even further, to 17.6%. Toronto needs to start trimming games from New York’s lead soon, or a month from now, the playoff path may only be a wild card spot.

The news for Tatis isn’t quite as bad but is certainly unwelcome. When he originally fractured the scaphoid bone in his left wrist before the season, it was believed that he would be able to return after a three-month absence. With June already halfway done and Tatis not yet even being allowed to take swings, the hopes for that three-month return have been dashed. If the Padres have any indication how long this setback pushes his return back, they’re not talking, so we have that dreaded phrase “no timetable.”

As important as Ryu is to the Jays, Tatis is even more crucial to the Friars. Projected with the second-best ZiPS WAR of any player coming into the season (and first if you assumed he played as many games as Juan Soto, the leader), Tatis is a major part of that offense. The Padres may have the third-most wins in baseball and be in a tie with the preseason favorite Dodgers, but the run scoring hasn’t been the team’s elite part; San Diego only ranks 13th in the league in runs scored and 21st in wRC+ through Wednesday morning. Even with the Dodgers losing Walker Buehler, they project as the superior team, so every week the Padres have to go without Tatis, their chances of defeating the boys in blue decline.

If Tatis had been able to come back tomorrow, ZiPS, because of the Buehler injury, would now favor San Diego in the divisional race (45%) over Los Angeles (37%) and San Francisco (18%). If the worst should happen and Tatis misses the entire season, then the projection becomes Los Angeles at 48%, San Diego at 28%, and San Francisco at 24%. Basically, the Padres lose 5% every month Tatis is gone, the Dodgers get 3%, and the Giants get 2%. Tatis’ actual IL time remains firmly in To Be Determined status.

There’s never a good time for injuries. But for the Padres and Jays, losing the services of Ryu and Tatis come at particular inopportune moments. Both underdogs are a little more underdog than a few days ago, but where there’s a positive magic number, there’s hope.





Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.

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sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan Szymborski

My understanding is that a starting pitcher who isn’t vaxxed wouldn’t miss more than one start unless they are in the AL East (including Toronto, obviously). For example, if he went to the Mariners or Angels, they probably wouldn’t have to worry about it, right? He might miss one start, but wouldn’t that be it unless they faced Toronto in the playoffs?

Of course it’s a good idea to have vaxxed players just so you don’t have more guys end up on the COVID-19 list for longer periods of time. But every team would have that issue if they had Mahle.

Aside from all that, Mahle is interesting because he’s quite a bit younger than either Montas or Castillo, so he’d be a candidate for an extension. Teams with young cores like the Mariners or White Sox might be decent landing spots for him even if they’re not playing that well right now.

jonah-prideMember since 2026
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

While I think you’re right about the relative number of games that Mahle would miss I think Dan is specifically talking about trade targets for the Jays so it’d be a far higher impact.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  jonah-pride

Yeah for the Jays it would be brutal. It’s not worth it at all for them.

everyonecheats1
4 years ago

Urquidy for Kirk, Thoughts?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago

That might work if the Blue Jays’ GM is 8 years old. But even then, maybe not.

BenZobrist4MVP
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Yeah, Kirk is the better player right now and under team control longer than Urquidy. I don’t see that trade happening.

Mahoney
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I love Urquidy, but if I were offered that as the Jays’ GM I’d counter with Jansen instead of Kirk.

(and if we ever see a Zack Collins for Josh James deal going down, maybe this is how it got started 😉 )

maestro876
4 years ago

I feel like this might be a little alarmist regarding Tatis. Yes the team said they hoped he would be back in three months, but that was an EXTREMELY aggressive projection when typical recovery time for this type of surgery is more like 4+ months. So basically he’s progressing like a normal human being, and there haven’t been any setbacks.

Travis LMember since 2016
4 years ago
Reply to  maestro876

At the same time, a 22 year old peak fitness elite athlete with every resource in the world available should probably heal faster than average.

maestro876
4 years ago
Reply to  Travis L

Unfortunately I don’t think athleticism and physical fitness have anything to do with bone density.

soddingjunkmailMember since 2016
4 years ago
Reply to  maestro876

I think being 22 does though.

Smiling PolitelyMember since 2018
4 years ago

healing, like development, is not linear, nor universal among people and age groups. you see superhuman recoveries more often in MLB. because you have be superhuman to get there at all, but it doesn’t mean everyone is exceptional in the same way.

FrancoeursteinMember since 2025
4 years ago

Agreed. I think that claim is more apt for soft tissue issues.

TKDCMember since 2016
4 years ago
Reply to  maestro876

The real alarming thing with Tatis is that he is just always hurt. Rose colored glasses may say that several of his injuries seem a little freakish, but at some point does that even matter?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago

Castillo and Montas are great because they have an extra year of team control and they’ll definitely be in the race again next year. It’s also nice because it would give them a fourth pitcher who you’d feel comfortable throwing out there in the playoffs, giving them insurance against an injury to Gausman, Manoah, or Berrios.

Anyone else would be there to slot in that #4 slot. If the Angels are totally out of it in a month you could check in on Syndergaard (and he does have some upside, maybe) or Lorenzen but I’d make a move before then. Quintana is likely available now. So is Martin Perez but I don’t trust him even as a #4. But none of those guys would require much in the way of prospects either.

I think the question is whether they could get either Castillo or Montas without giving up Moreno or Kirk. I’m not sure about that. Maybe one of those teams is still high on Orelvis Martinez and willing to wait on guys in the low(er) minors like Tiedemann, Leo Jimenez, and Gabriel Martinez.

dl80Member since 2026
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Merrill Kelly? He’s 33, on a very reasonable deal for 2 more years after this year and a club option for 2025.

The Dbacks are years away from contending IMO, so they might be interested. The reasonable contract will make him fairly costly in terms of prospects, though.

ccctl
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Catcher is a particularly strong position in the A’s farm right now (Langeliers, Soderstrom), Tiedemann’s ceiling is mid-rotation (if he can find his control), and A’s have a long record of wanting pitching for pitching.

I don’t think the Jays have enough to outbid someone with a better SP prospect.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  ccctl

Eh, I don’t know if I buy this. Yes, they’ll want a pitcher. But there aren’t that many pitching prospects obviously better than Tiedemann (FV45) that will be available and on teams that need to . In a world where they’re also offering a Top 100 prospect (Orelvis Martinez) it’s more possible than you think.

Here are the pitching prospects on teams that might want to trade for Montas that are reasonable targets: Ken Waldichuk (NYY), Brayan Bello (BOS), Matthew Liberatore (STL), Josh Winder (MIN), and Seth Johnson (TBR). I don’t think Luis Medina is a Top 100 prospect and I’m kind of confused about how anyone thinks he’s going to figure it out with only one option year left. Bobby Miller is maybe on the table but it’s iffy.

If all of those 5 teams balk, then you’re looking at Matt Canterino (MIN), Clarke Schmidt (NYY), Ryan Pepiot or Maddux Bruns (LAD), and Taj Bradley (TBR). These are guys that are graded as 45+, which may be better enough than Tiedemann to disqualify the Blue Jays in a Orelvis Martinez + Tiedemann + Leo Jimenez + more package. But I don’t think it’s guaranteed unless those other teams also want to give up a prospect as good as Martinez (which is possible but not guaranteed). If the Rays decide to trade Taj Bradley and Curtis Mead then yes, I think they would take that deal first. Or Canterino + Austin Martin. Possibly also Ryan Pepiot and Andy Pages.

If those 4 teams balk–something which I think is unlikely but since it is the same teams except the Dodgers it’s possible–then you’re into prospects that have the same grade as Tiedemann. At that point, I don’t think the Blue Jays are disqualified at all.

johndarc
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I feel like the Yankees would be better served holding onto Schmidt and Waldichuk than trading them for starting pitching.

steveo
4 years ago
Reply to  johndarc

Yeah, though I do think Cole-Montas-Severino top 3 would be particularly filthy. I don’t think it’ll happen though. I don’t think the Yankees view Montas as a big enough upgrade over Taillon/Cortes/Montgomery to trade Waldichuk and others. I think they’ll get a depth starter like Heaney last year to spread the workload around. Kind of lame, but Waldichuk looks like a future mid rotation guy.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  steveo

Trading some good prospects who are clogging up the 40 man for a starter with a year and a half left of control is historically the Yankees’ MO. But I think there’s a pretty good chance you’re right. It’s yet another reason why there may not be as many bidders for Montas as it appears, at least not at that level.

Wegandi727
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Bradley is only a 45+ here on FG. Almost every other prospect outlet has him as a top 50 prospect. Seth Johnson is also likely headed to TJS. Rays cant trade pitchers because theyre all hurt and Bradley is the only pitcher of note in the system thats healthy and in AA+. The Rays problem is not pitching even with the million guys hurt, its offense. We’re out here regularly having 4-5 guys in the lineup OPSing under .500.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Wegandi727

Then Seth Johnson probably isn’t a 50 anymore if he’s going to get TJS. In theory, Montas would help solve the pitching issue but the Rays were always less likely to trade for a starting pitcher anyway.

If I’m reading this and the Yankee fans correctly then it seems like the Cardinals, Dodgers, Twins, and Red Sox would be the only teams left with pitching prospects in that range and who might be interested in trading for a playoff-ready starter. And I would guess the Twins and Red Sox may not be interested either. If the A’s want to limit it only to teams that have high-level pitching prospects then it’s going to be tough to find a match.

Richie
4 years ago

With the Division title looking unlikely regardless, the Jays should NOT! break the prospect bank to upgrade this year. With Vladito and Bichette and the resources to keep them, the Jays are in this for the long haul.

Any real prospect they trade this year means one hole they have to fill in a subsequent likely-contending year. At absolute minimum one less trade asset for ’23 or ’24 when they figure to more likely be in a higher-leverage position than they are now.

And since their $$$ are abundant but not Yankees/Dodgers limitless, any guy they pay now means one less guy they can pay later.

Courtesy of the Yankees’ ridiculous start, and that the Sox (now) and Rays are also playing well, this isn’t the year to cash in chips which figure to be more valuable in following indubitably higher-leverage years.

Jason BMember since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  Richie

With the Division title looking unlikely regardless, the Jays should NOT! break the prospect bank to upgrade this year.”

Agree with this. I don’t want to sacrifice a bunch of potential foundational pieces to fetch a starter who could nudge them from 18% to 20% to win the division this year.

Travis LMember since 2016
4 years ago
Reply to  Jason B

If you’re sending a bunch of foundational pieces away, you’re going to get a guy who can help you in multiple seasons. I think the Jays should consider it for a pitcher who can help in 2-3 playoff runs — look at the Padres’ acquisitions of Darvish or Clevinger for examples, the returns were not stellar.

There’s also the playoff depth aspect. If you don’t have a deep rotation when the playoffs start, it’s not such a big deal. But if the Jays currently have 3 guys they depend on, it’s a pretty good chance that will be down to 2 guys by playoff time. Pitchers get hurt, and Ryu’s injury doesn’t protect the team from another one.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Travis L

The return for Darvish was pretty good, especially given his contract and age. Clevinger was traded because everyone wanted him gone, and the return was something like six players.

Montas would be there to help with two playoff runs.

What is a foundational piece? Gabriel Moreno or Alejandro Kirk, I understand. What about Orelvis Martinez? Ricky Tiedemann? Jordan Groshans?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Richie

The issue is that there are two problems that the Blue Jays have, and they suggest different solutions.
1) Ryu’s ineffectiveness and now injury means that they only go 3 deep for a potential playoff rotation, so another injury will put Ross Stripling in the playoff rotation (unless they really believe in Kikuchi, which they shouldn’t).
2) Ryu being out of commission means that an injury puts one of the Hatch / Kay / Francis types in line for starts. Which is bad!

In theory, getting someone like Frankie Montas solves both problems. In practice, you don’t really want to give out a lot of prospects if you think you only need to solve #2.

Of course, getting someone like Quintana means they could bump Stripling back into the swingman role, which improves the depth but based on current results would make them worse for the present (this is obviously moot if they decide Kikuchi is the guy who needs to get bumped into the swingman role).

kid
4 years ago

Tatis Jr. probably comes back in early August. Gotta figure he’ll need 2-3 weeks building up to swinging a wood bat & hitting real baseballs; there will be soreness & days off in there, to be sure. Then, assuming all that goes well, he’ll need at least a couple weeks’ worth of simulated games/MiLB games to work on timing, coordination & conditioning. This puts us basically at the ASB, which is the 3rd week in July. There are some who think that superstar players can heal/recover faster than normal athletes, but that’s nonsense.

Travis LMember since 2016
4 years ago
Reply to  kid

I don’t think there’s any reason to think Tatis will heal faster than a basic starter, but I would expect elite athletes to heal faster than the average Joe. Additionally, elite athletes will probably get more attention and possibly better treatment – I suspect that the 9th long reliever doesn’t get as much of the medical staff’s time as Fernando would.

And if that time and attention difference doesn’t make him heal faster, why are the teams spending on it?

TLDR I agree with what you say, with nuance.

HoratioSky
4 years ago
Reply to  Travis L

To answer your question, the medical industry has always been excellent at convincing people that are sick — and those who are not sick — that treatment by medical professionals is always a more effective route. However, in more than a few cases, they have been proven incorrect. I would be surprised if there is rock-hard evidence showing that anything outside of proper nutrition, stimulation of blood flow and non-aggravation of the injury can heal bones faster than they otherwise would heal without the extra attention.

marianosz
4 years ago
Reply to  HoratioSky

Yes, you´re right. And I´m and orthopedic surgeon, really.

ice_hawk10
4 years ago

I’m not sure the Ryu injury means all that much in reality. They’ve been essentially playing with a replacement level or worse version of Ryu since midway through last year.

tung_twista
4 years ago
Reply to  ice_hawk10

Sure, but preseason projections (ZiPS/Steamer ra9-war) had him as a top 30 MLB pitcher.
Ryu being replacement level or worse was certainly a possibility,
but wasn’t the median or even the most likely outcome.

Twitchy
4 years ago
Reply to  tung_twista

The mistake was preseason predictions assuming he was healthy.

Twitchy
4 years ago

It’s a mistake to get a high end starter. The Jays need a Stripling like player – someone who is good in long relief who can start if there’s an injury. If you want to argue they should get a starter to push Kikuchi out of the rotation- that I could get behind. He’s brutal. Treat him like a sunk cost. But beyond that the Jays bigger priorities are to add high leverage BP arms. The BP remains their weakness. They still have Gausman/Manoah/Berrios for the potential playoff rotation with Stripling the next option.

And Ryu being out isn’t hurting their chances. He was brutal in the second half last year and I’m convinced he did something to his elbow then. Zips assumed he’d rebound which is why the odds show this hurts the Jays, but realistically he never was going to pitch to those Stats.

Last edited 4 years ago by Twitchy
Jason BMember since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  Twitchy

They still have Gausman/Manoah/Berrios for the potential playoff rotation with Stripling the next option.”

Probably need a better #4 option for a playoff series; and this is also assuming those four guys remain healthy. If one of the top three gets hurt then the offense will need to score a half-dozen or more a game because their pitching sure won’t scare anyone.

Definitely need to add some depth, whether by way of a more front-line starter who can help in coming years also (like Montas) or by adding a #4-ish starter (although someone like Quintana will probably be as inconsistent and mediocre-at-best as Kikucki is now).

tung_twista
4 years ago
Reply to  Jason B

The reality is that most MLB teams aside from some notable exceptions like Yankees and Padres don’t have a #4 starting pitcher you feel comfortable trotting out in the playoffs.
And that is not some debilitating penalty.
You see more and more bullpen games.
Braves started Dylan Lee in the world series last year when they won.
Nationals started Joe Ross in 2019 and also won.
Starting pitcher depth is never bad, but I don’t buy ‘they need a better #4 starting pitcher than Stripling for the playoffs’ especially given that they would need to go through a best of 3 game series first.

Twitchy
4 years ago
Reply to  Jason B

Why would you start a fourth pitcher over the front 3 on short rest? That would have me calling for you to be fired if you’re the GM or manager. If they’re healthy then Stripling goes to the BP. Ride those 3 stars to the WS.

If they get hurt, same deal. But game 3/6 become Stripling and the bullpen.

It’s dumb for the Jays to overpay for a fourth SP. They either kick Kikuchi out and get another SP, or get a swing pitcher who like Stripling or in the 2015 run Estrada, can go from the BP to the rotation. Don’t spend significant assets on this.

And add another high leverage reliever.

That’s what the Jays need. Not overpaying on a fourth starter.

Last edited 4 years ago by Twitchy
Jason BMember since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  Twitchy

Why would they overpay regardless? You seem to think I had suggested that. At any rate, I do continue to contend they could use a serviceable #4 – Berrios has not exactly lit the world on fire this year, and pushing those top 3 into short rest seems like it would just be an even dicier proposition – short rest will lead to shorter starts and more bullpen work, and I don’t exactly trust many of those guys either…

soddingjunkmailMember since 2016
4 years ago

Dan, Any chance of rerunning the Zips analysis on the monster Tatis extension incorporating what we now know? (Performance since then, injuries)

connjc
4 years ago

Even as a Dodgers fan, I’m sorry to see Tatis off the field. I’m definitely one who wants the best players on the field because it makes for a more exciting game. Hopefully he can nip the injury bug he’s had the last couple years between his shoulder and wrist and find a way to stay on the field.