Bryce Harper and Babe Ruth
I’m a little late on this, but regardless of timeliness, Kevin Goldstein did some reporting on Bryce Harper last week. Goldstein talked to a few scouts and … well; the reviews on Harper’s intangible qualities – which are wholly tangible when they need to be – are less than stellar. I don’t care to attempt and judge Harper or talk about what these opinions mean to his future. He’s a teenager with enough strength to hit baseballs 500 feet and wear David DeJesus on a chain around his neck. He’s also been on the cover of Sports Illustrated and on the lips (and fingertips) of every baseball draft analyst since last year. Excuse me for expecting nothing less than a sense of self pride.
What I do want to bring up, though, is something I ranted about recently elsewhere. Think about the definitive Babe Ruth tale. It’s the called shot, right? Everyone knows about Ruth’s called shot. It’s a signature moment and a piece of Americana folklore. There are many conflicting tales on what exactly took place on that day. Some say Ruth called his shot, others say he didn’t. Some say Ruth spent the day trading taunts with the Chicago Cubs’ dugout, others say he was just sticking up for a former teammate who wasn’t receiving his post-season share. A lot of hearsay. A lot of noise.
For the most part though, people seem to buy into the called shot being real. Perhaps we just want it to be real. But, isn’t calling a shot pretty selfish? One of the best players in baseball today can’t even trot across the back of the mound without it becoming a hot topic on every sports site, radio show, and television show for a week steady, imagine Ruth living in today’s world and pointing towards center. Now imagine him doing it during the World Series.
This isn’t supposed to be some scathing commentary on how we’ve come to expect a different set of standards from our athletes. It’s not even a commentary on Babe Ruth’s antics. It’s just odd and maybe a teeny bit hypocritical to recite that Ruth story with such vigor while treating Harper like a leper. It shows that if you hit a baseball far enough and well enough, then you can get away with anything on the field. And really, isn’t that probably the root of Harper’s issues already?
Even though I 100% agree with in regards to Harper’s intangibles (basically, who cares), Babe Ruth was basically living legend when that happened, it’s kind of hard to compare the two things.
Agreed that they don’t have too much to do with each other, but I think RJ’s point sticks. If Albert Pujols did that, I’m not sure we wouldn’t be so up in arms. Heck, players can’t even watch home runs after hitting them without receiving some negative response, imagine if a player nowadays “watched” his home run BEFORE he hit it?
I think you missed the most important connection here, R.J. Goldstein says Harper has these issues, as well as some unnamed scout. Keith Law and others say it’s a bunch of crap and that his attitude is fine.
It’s hearsay and rumours. Just like the called shot.
I don’t know what the real story is, but I have a problem with throwing the “bad, bad person” quote around about a 17 year old, especially when we’re talking about arrogance and not lawbreaking or Roethlisbergerism. Well said.
I really hope “Roethlisbergerism” catches on.
This headline is just pleading to start incitement. These two situations are not comparable whatsoever.
For the record, Justice John Paul Stevens was at that game (yes, he’s that old) and he recently said in an interview that Ruth did, in fact, point toward center and then hit the HR after, so at least that much (without context) is true.
i question this because Stevens never takes a position on ANYTHING.
See Burnham v. Superior Court
Nicker please.
Ok, now I’m ready to ban this guy. Is that possible?
It was just a different time where players heckled and taunted eachother. It was also ok to be an overt racist or show up drunk and spike eachother and trip eachother.
Double standards? Not in my baseball!
Why didnt you just write something about how Keith Law and other scouts say his attitude is fine like the commentor above. That would have been much more useful. Like was all this necessary … I mean even trying to compare him to Babe Ruth in ANY way. I get your not comparing their talents at all but wtf. If you really feel compelled to stick up for him talk about how he is only 17, or maybe its that the percieved ‘tude is really just a kid struggling to adjust to being in the national spotlight or being called the next “Lebron” and shit like that.
Sorry I have no idea why this article pissed me off so much but its like your saying “leave the kid alone a bit, let him play baseball and what not. But on the other hand lets mention him and Babe Ruth in the same sentence cuz ya know I wrote an article about it before”. Maybe it was just laziness.
It was some other commenting board that someone mentioned Rickey Henderson (who’s “self-pride” is much more substantiated by both writers and Rickey himself) and pointed out that arrogance, whether real or fabricated, is no reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater. I tend to agree with that.
And like others are mentioned, this is a child. We’re not talking about a grown man, regardless of his size. There’s a lot of maturation that will go on as he goes through the minors and into the majors. The key, of course, is to maybe tone down some of the media hyperbole. Which is impossible.
Hurked on fonix wurked fer me.
It’s one thing to be arrogant when you’re already the best player in the world. But when teams don’t yet know exactly where your talents will take you (put Harper in the MLB today and he gets eaten alive), it’s completely reasonable to take a look at traits that may correlate with being less likely to achieve your potential.
Ruth was already at the mountain top. Harper is taking victory laps at base camp. He may be the most talent climber out there, but he should probably be conserving his energy.
To delve deeper into a analogy that’s rather tortured to begin with, Harper might be at the base camp, but he’s not really weakening himself for the trip up the mountain by flapping his gums. Maybe the tour guides don’t particularly care for him, but as long as they don’t decide to screw him, there’s no reason he won’t still be able to climb the mountain.
There is something to be said for “calling” it and then backing it up. For some reason that strikes me as way less arrogant than hitting a home run and then mugging your way around the bases. Calling it ahead of time, you’re putting yourself out on a limb. The numbers say you likely won’t hit a homer, and then to do it anyway? Completely justifies the cockiness.
The only reason teams should be concerned about Harper’s attitude is if it affects his work ethic. Or if teammates have issues with him. If he has a sense of entitlement where he relies on his ability and doesn’t work that hard, then he is a liability. If he has issues with teammates that cause locker room problems, then he is a liability. Otherwise, it doesn’t matter.
As for the called shot, I remember about 10-15 years ago, some news show (20/20 or something like that) had shown video footage of the supposed “called shot”. Apparently someone was cleaning out an attic or whatever and found it. Typical story… anyways. I saw the video and in my opinion, he did not call the shot. It looked to me like he was arguing with the pitcher, jawing back and forth and he pointed at the pitcher while saying something. His arm never appeared to go higher than shoulder level. If he was calling his shot, I think it would have been elevated more.
I saw that program with the footage and reached the same conclusion you did about Ruth’s “shot.” There are tons of things Ruth did in his life that we would criticize modern athletes for. The “shot” is pretty tame compared to most of them. Then again I doubt the fans today would constantly greet a white superstar with racial epitaphs. Fans change, players change, people finding some reason to criticize one another never changes.
Why do people still take Kevin Goldstein seriously? He was an intern at BA for a couple months, that about sums up his qualifications for being a “prospect guru.” Oooh he brings together the statistical side and the scouting side. Yeah, so does everyone else these days. Where are his unnamed scouts talking about Lars Anderson’s “slow bat speed” now that he’s bounced back and is leading the Eastern League in OPS?
KG is definitely the most visible of BPs efforts to provide “useful” analysis. I can’t remember who it was, but somebody once said of highering a “Bill James type” “why would I spend all the money on Bill James to tell me that I should value young pitchers who strike guys out and get ground balls? We already know that.” So Goldstein runs around digging to find something or anything that isn’t already saying. Its that simple.
Bonds was a first class arrogant jerk too, with a similar belief in his own abilities and an arrogant sense of entitlement. If his draft was redone now, any doubt he would be the number 1 pick that year (over will clark, barry larkin, rafael palmiero, randy johnson. tino martinez, david justice, brady anderson and… who could forget? BJ SURHOFF! Quite a lot of talent that year, eh? An entire steroids HoF…)? I seem to recall reading that his attitude caused him to slip a few spots in the draft…
Personality has small sample size too. Can’t we just wait and see? Maybe he’ll be like Rickey — a hot dog who’s pretty damn cool. Or maybe he’ll turn out to be like Elijah Dukes, a guy who has amazing skill but really does seem to have such a downside in his personality that teams don’t want him. Likely, he’ll be in between.
When Harper has become the actual best player in baseball history then he gets to call shots. Until then, he needs to be quiet.
We were all big enough a-holes at age 17 without being told we were God’s gift to baseball, a game that requires its players to maintain a level of confidence that most non-baseball players find intolerable.
That’s a pretty fair way to look at it. Its also worth bearing in mind that nobody was saying things like this when Harper was a high schooler. Now that scouts specializing in juco leagues are weighing in he’s being compaired to a subset of the population to which he doesn’t belong. Making the decision to go juco usually involves forgoing a late selection in the draft, a relatively mature decision. So everytime I hear about Harper’s personality deficits I hear “he’s not as mature as a mature subset of 20 year olds.”
Babe may not have called the shot, but he did shut up the Cub team.
They called him all kinds of names, said he was washed up
He took two strikes then raised on finger and said “I still have one left…………then he hit one out of site, 480 feet