Bryce Harper or Manny Machado?
Who’s going to have the better season: Bryce Harper or Manny Machado? That’s the question posed to you at the end of this post. Which means this is a poll post. Poll post!
Years ago, the debate used to be about Bryce Harper, Manny Machado, and Mike Trout. It’s safe to say Trout is now excluded from the conversation, on account of having become too good. That leaves Harper and Machado to battle, and while they’re not actually in direct competition with one another, what’s the downside here of matching them up? Below, I’ll present the respective cases, before getting to the question. This does not mean I think these are the only great players. Kris Bryant is great. Mookie Betts is great. Corey Seager and several others are great. But Harper vs. Machado is a fun one, and I think we’ll be able to learn from whatever these poll results might be.
Bryce Harper was born in October of 1992. He’s batted a little shy of 2,800 times in the majors, and he’s been worth about 23 WAR. Manny Machado was born in July of 1992. He’s batted a little shy of 2,700 times in the majors, and he’s been worth about 23 WAR. I know you already know this, but just as a visual reminder, here are their performances over the last two seasons, in which both players have been relatively healthy regulars:
The combined WARs are effectively equal. Harper has been better by about three wins, and he’s been worse by about three wins. Machado’s remained stable. That’s why this is fun! I want to see which player you prefer. Let’s talk about them on their own.
Why to pick Bryce Harper
Machado’s great and all, but he has yet to reach the 7-WAR level. Harper, as shown above, has topped out at 9.5. Over the past decade, four position players have had seasons worth 9 WAR or better. Mike Trout has done it a bunch, which is why he isn’t exactly fair, but Harper once proved himself to be that good. He had the best batting season since Barry Bonds‘ 2004. Even last year, when Harper’s performance plummeted, he still finished with the league’s highest walk rate, and he spent more time in hitter-friendly counts than everyone but David Ortiz. The struggling version of Harper consistently worked the zone and worked the count, which would seem to bode well in the event that Harper re-discovers his swing.
Which, oh, by the way, kablammo!
Harper is currently tied for the MLB lead in spring-training home runs, with six. Obviously, the “spring-training” part might render the numbers meaningless — Harper shares the lead with Peter O’Brien. But if you were just looking for signs of life, there’s a there there. Harper looks healthy. I wouldn’t exactly describe his home runs as effortless, like I would a typical Chris Davis bomb, but Harper looks like a slugger. He has been slugging.
There’s still some mystery about what happened. What we don’t have is a clear explanation for why Harper’s wRC+ last year suddenly dropped by 85 points. There’s never been proof that Harper played through some sort of significant injury. However, there’s no shortage of circumstantial evidence. There were frequent rumors of injury, and there were some missed ballgames. There’s the simple matter of Harper’s power and exit velocity dropping off. Harper’s a prideful guy, and he doesn’t seem like one to lean on excuses. Even when he wasn’t at his best, he was still a net positive for his team. We don’t have a smoking gun, but there’s enough smoke in the air, which makes Harper so damned intriguing.
We’ve seen Harper play at a Hall-of-Fame level. He did that in his age-22 season. It was a season that matched the hype, and Harper looked that good again early last year, before his numbers suddenly dropped. Some people have suggested that Harper’s approach just got screwed up, by how often he was pitched around. The injury excuse, however, is compelling. If Harper can do what he did while hurt, what if he were healthy again? Yeah. I’m not going to lie to you — it’s persuasive.
Why to pick Manny Machado
I can’t very well embed one video without embedding a second:
The image of Harper is one of a slugger, but you definitely shouldn’t sell Machado’s power short. He’s shown it in the WBC, and although it was just one ball in play, I’ll note that it was Machado who hit the would-be homer that Adam Jones famously took away over the weekend. In Harper’s massive breakout season, he hit 42 homers. The last two years combined, he’s hit 66. Over the same span, Machado’s hit 72. A couple years back, Machado turned on the pop, and his ground-ball rate has dropped from 49% to 37% since 2014. The power has come, and there’s still room to grow.
Harper’s biggest edge is in the walk department. Harper is more willing to leave the bat on his shoulder. Machado, though, showed unusual discipline two years back, and he could conceivably blend that approach with his 2016 results as he matures. And, additionally, to some extent it’ll be taken out of Machado’s hands, as pitchers could increasingly opt to work around him. His rate of fastballs seen just dropped seven percentage points, and his zone rate dropped as well. With Machado as a proven threat, pitchers will have to be careful, so you could see his walk rate jump.
That’s the upside in Machado’s approach. He already makes league-average contact, with league-elite power. His is an enviable mix of offensive skills. But I haven’t even mentioned Machado’s other strength. Harper has a career UZR of +17, and a career DRS of +24. Pretty good! He’s mostly played the corner outfield. Machado’s played shortstop and third base. He has a career UZR of +64, and a career DRS of +77. Machado is — statistically and visually — one of the best defensive infielders in recent baseball history, and that gives him a certain well-roundedness few other players could achieve. It also props up Machado’s baseline, such that you could imagine a 9- or 10-win season even without him quite reaching his offensive ceiling. Adrian Beltre’s 2004 required a wRC+ of 161. Through last year’s first three months, Machado had a wRC+ of 163.
You could say that picking between Harper and Machado is like picking between upside and stability. Sure, that’s part of it. But it’s not like Machado doesn’t have his own upside, considering how much room there still is to improve at the plate. Manny Machado, the last two years, ranks fourth among position players in WAR, while hitting as well as Justin Turner. What if he hit better than Justin Turner? He’ll turn 25 on the 6th of July.
My part here is done. Take it away, FanGraphs community.
Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.

I have to give the WAR edge to Machado due to elite defensive and positional adjustment (i.e., 3B vs RF), but if the question were asking who will have a higher wRC+ in 2017, I’d give the edge to Harper due to his BB% and base running skills.
Harper had a great 2015 and a good (but below his standards) 2016. I think those are two huge outliers and we can expect his performance to be somewhere in the middle.
Meanwhile Machado has consistently put up 6 WAR seasons in his 3 full seasons (he got injured in 2014).
I would have to stick with Machado simply because this.
Then you add in the defense/position aspects of the two, and it is clearly in favor of Manny.
I would probably take Machado over Harper if I had to pick a franchise player, but I voted Harper because he has generational offensive ability, he could foreseeably post a .450 OBP and .650 SLG over the next 5 years of his prime, as he did in 2015.
Yeah, I think there are two question here: which player would I want as a GM, and which player do I want as a fan?
Machado is pretty clearly the safer bet. He’s more consistent and has a significant advantage on defense. If you’re responsible for spending tens of millions of dollars on one of these guys, Machado is almost certainly the wiser choice.
But Harper…as a fan, I want the guy who might do something truly historic. Machado is a great player, and is well on his way to a Hall career. But Harper put up Barry Bonds numbers when he was 22.
Machado’s best season very possibly hasn’t happened yet, and it will be something to behold when it happens. But what if Harper’s best season hasn’t happened yet either? As a fan, I know that consistency is rationally preferable, but I can’t resist the lottery ticket.
Machado. Superior defense at more valuable positions makes the difference.
Of course, that implies that they’re similar hitters, haha. Even with his two down years, Harper’s wRC+ is 20 points higher than Machado’s for their career, and 24 points higher over the last two seasons.
Two down years is 40% of Harper’s career.
That’s true.
Last year was 50% of the last two seasons.
…and Harper’s wRC+ is still over 20 points higher than Machado’s in both those sample sizes.
Which speaks more to how absolutely nuts offensively Harper is than to any deficiency on Machado’s part.
wRC+ 121 137 115 197 112
wOBA .352 .371 .338 .461 .343
BABIP .310 .306 .352 .369 .264
Which of these data points appears to be the outlier? Harper’s 2015 was a cartoon. All of his numbers are buoyed up by it. I’m not saying it didn’t happen, only that it is unlikely to happen again.
Harper is a great player but he is not Ultra Elite, at least not until he can prove the 2015 is closer to the norm than the aberration.
Years in which Harper has been healthy enough to play 150 pro games
2012:
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2016&month=0&season1=1900&ind=1&team=&rost=&age=19,19&filter=&players=
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2016&month=0&season1=1900&ind=1&team=0&rost=0&age=19,19&filter=&players=0&sort=20,d
2015:
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2016&month=0&season1=1900&ind=1&team=0&rost=0&age=22,22&filter=&players=0&sort=22,d
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2016&month=0&season1=1900&ind=1&team=0&rost=0&age=22,22&filter=&players=0&sort=20,d
What is your point, that He is injury prone? That it is unlikely that he will ever be able to stay healthy enough to repeat 2015? I gave rate stats, and if you like you can compare his career numbers to 2015. Again, I am not a Bryce Hater, I love me some Ice Harper. I just think that it is fair to ask that he “do it” more than once before we crown him a first ballot hall of famer.
Honestly, the final data point with the .264 BABIP appears to be as big an outlier as anything from his 2015 season.
That .264 BABIP looks like a massive aberration too, yet Harper still had a .343 wOBA. Machado does seem like the more reliable superstar, but a healthy Harper – not just one able to stay on the field – is an MVP candidate.
Exactly. And his 2015 numbers were the result of ridiculous luck on both babip and hr/fb%.
Well if you want to get technical the .264 BABIP is literally the biggest outlier.
Graves: I understand 2015 is an outlier, but acting like the other seasons would be the baseline for him doesn’t make much sense considering his age. He isn’t some 30 year old who had a career year in his prime. A 121 wRC+ at 19 years old is insane. Even the best of prospects aren’t usually in AA at that age. So when you put his career numbers into context, yes 2015 is an outlier, but the other seasons were much better than just the raw numbers. 2015 was historic, he is definitely ultra elite in my book.
all I see is numbers going further and further apart. By this logic we can expect his wRC+ to be 250 next year and 60 the year after that.
I voted Machado due to injury risk, which is probably recency bias…
I’d take Machado for his ability to play two high difficulty defensive positions exceptionally well and for his greater consistency from year to year.
I could see signing Machado and getting 5 or 6 years (on an expected 10 year deal) of 5+ WAR seasons. With Harper i could see getting a couple of monster 8+ WAR years but also a bunch of good to just mediocre seasons.
This season will probably tell us a lot about what a Harper contact looks like. Barring a serious injury Machado’s next contact is already basically locked in to be $300M+, but Harper will need to be great this year to get that kind of money in 2018. Another year of 3-4 WAR probably takes Harper completely out of that stratosphere of contracts.
I find absolutely no flaws in Machado’s fantastic game. So he doesn’t steal a lot of bases now, most middle of the order mashers are not expected to, and why steal when everybody was hitting it out of the park behind him? This could also be Showalter’s philosophy. The four top third basemen are all great but Machado is my choice
I’m curious: How will EXACT TIE be adjudicated, given that WAR is generally rounded to one decimal place?
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Easiest decision ever. Machado and it’s not close. The SS (and 3B to boot) eligibility is HUGE not to mention I trust Machado to hit for a better AVG. Harper may have a little more power but he’s so inconsistent you don’t know what you’re going to get from him. Harper is probably the better bet for steals, but if Machado decides to run more he can steal 20 easy. Harper also has trouble staying healthy with the way he plays. Harper could have a season where he puts it all together AND stays healthy, but I don’t feel like paying for it before it happens. I’d take Turner, Miggy, and Correa all over Harper without a second thought as well (though it all depends how you want to build your team – I like getting elite AVG guys and guys at positions that are very weak after the top tier). No Harper for me.
For clarity, this debate is on real life preference, not fantasy baseball preference.
…what do you mean “before it happens,” haha?
His putting it together and staying healthy “happened” when he put up, bar none, the best offensive performance of the last 12 years in 2015.
Exact tie is a cop out and shouldn’t have been included. If WAR is calculated out as far as possible and not rounded it is virtually impossible for them to tie.
Also ties are only for Communists.
And the Pirates and Cubs who tied in a game last year.
Besides that, if you think WAR is precise enough to distinguish between 6.0 and 6.1 let alone taking it out even further then you do not understand the framework very clearly.
If you interpret “exactly tie” to mean that the error bars in their WAR values overlap, that seems plenty plausible to me.
Given that they are both going to be free agents after the 2018 season, you could say that they are in direct competition with each other. Or at least that they will be.
Hmmm … Machado has 3 6+ WAR seasons over his last three full seasons. Harper has one monster 9.5 WAR season, but that’s the only time he ever reached 5 WAR. The fact is that Harper’s really not so bad 3.5 WAR in 2016 was not that different from his aggregate 2013-2014 – 5.4 in about 50% more PAs. So he’s basically been an unexceptional player for 3 of the last 4 years. I’ll take that as indicative of his chances of having a better year than the guy we can rely on: 25%.
FWIW the fans projections have
Machado: 6.8
Harper: 5.7
—
Bryant: 7.6 (lol)
Seager: 6.7
Lindor: 6.5
Correa: 6.1
Betts: 6.0
It would seem the crowd would take Machado, Bryant, Seager, Lindor, Correa and Betts over Harper.
LOL? 7.6 is close to Bryant’s average WAR. It may be lazy but not epic homerism.
yep, if you take his career fwar/600 and multiply it by the 689 pas fans project he’s at 7.66. It’s not likely, but as you say, it’s not crazy. I expect a good amount of regression for him this year, especially on the DEF portion, so I think that’s over, but not by much more than most other FANS projections for players
Projecting KB at 7.6 war is to say he is clearly the second best position player in baseball. While he is definitely in the conversation he has been very lucky when it comes to his BSR and DEF war valuation.
Fan projections are largely homerism across the board.
Right. And the last years run explains a lot of it, but a 7.6 is probably the rosiest of fans projections that I see up there.
Why do you think the fans project only 5.7 for Harper? That doesn’t seem homery at all to me.
I think this would be interesting posed in two different ways:
1) Who will produce more WAR between the two?
2) Who would you rather have on your team?
My answer to question 1 is Machado because Machado seems like a “safe” 6 WAR player but the upside to Harper is just tremendous. I would take the 25% chance (made up number obviously) of the 8-10 WAR Harper where the downside is a still good 4 WAR over the more consistent Machado.
Machado is the clear statistical favorite, considering to pick Harper means putting much greater weight on a single special season when career history pretty clearly favors Manny. That said, I voted Harper anyway, on probably illogical faith in the fact that you can’t fluke your way to a 200 wRC+.
Also, considering the availability of 1-2 WAR corner OF in the recent market, you might need to shave a win or two off Harper’s projection when comparing him to Machado from a roster building perspective.
The 15th best SS last year was a 2.4 WAR player.
The 15th best 3B last year was a 2.6 WAR player.
The 15th best RF was a 1.4 WAR player.
The 15th best LF was a 1.2 WAR player.
If we’re making any adjustments based on positional depth, Machado gets dinged.
“Yes”
-Brian Cashman
I could easily see Harper in pinstripes, and obviously many others can too. But Machado? Something about that just doesn’t feel right.
If it’s for a single year give me Manny’s 6-7 WAR.
If it’s for two or three or four give me Bryce’s madness.
I know that this post is only about next year specifically, but these two being free agents in the same offseason, I think it’s interesting to think about their future career and contracts as well. I’m sorry if this post comes off as unnecessary –
There is the fact that machado has had issues with his knees already. I obviously have no way to predict if/when that will matter, but if you are signing these two guys for 10 years or so, there is a very real potential that Machados defense will start to dip and may do so more/faster than some expect.
Obviously harper is not injury free either, so some may think that’s a wash, but I think there is a very real chance that Machados defense will slide early enough in the contract that he will be worth less than Harper is. I could be very wrong, but its definitely something to consider.
I think machado pretty much has his contract value more or less locked in, for Harper, I think this is a very important year.
Just out of curiosity I looked for other recent players who had similarly valuable offensive seasons to Harper’s 2015 (excluding known steroid users because their consistency is unlikely to ever be matched again). I came up with Miguel Cabrera, Jeff Bagwell, George Brett, Rickey Henderson, Jim Thome, and Frank Thomas. They each had a year close to 200 wRC+, and while they never reached that again they had hall-of-fame numbers in other years. They are also some of the most disciplined players ever.
I don’t know what to make of a guy whose only single-season peers are clear Hall of Famers but isn’t anywhere near as consistent. So if you scan down the list a bit more you get guys like Albert Belle, Jose Bautista, Gary Sheffield, and Manny Ramirez who at least seem to be temperamentally closer to Harper than the Thomas/Thome types (with the obvious caveat that Belle is probably a worse person than everyone else on the list). Kevin Mitchell also shows up there. Most of those guys had years that were huge outliers and the rest of the time they put up good but not Hall-of-Fame seasons, like Harper has.
If you think Harper will get the Brett/Bagwell/Thome/Thomas kind of consistency then yeah, you’d expect him to regularly have offensive years like Mike Trout does every year, in the 170 wRC+ range. Those years he’d obviously be more valuable than a guy who puts up 6 WAR, which is relevant because as the article points out Machado will probably put up 6 WAR a year for a while. If you think he’s more Bautista/Belle/Sheffield/Mitchell then you’d expect not. I think the 2015 Harper had was out of this world, and I think we’ll see him have stretches like that again but not anywhere close to a whole season. And that’s not even counting (as pointed out in the article) that if Machado hits a hot streak he’ll be tough to beat. I pick Manny.
As someone who was roundly booed here 2 years ago for going against the consensus and daring to suggest that bryce harper is not in the same class as mike trout, i now expect to be roundly booed again when i say that although the difference is not as great, bryce harper isn’t nearly as good as manny machado.
I’m with you on this. Knowing what we know about Harper’s exit velocity numbers in 2015 it kinda feels like 2015 was an outlier and we’ll never see him approach that level of performance again.
It was obvious then too from average fly ball distance.
And the .369 BABIP.
so what you’re saying is that manny machado is basically mike trout. BOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I didn’t say that at all. In fact I specifically wrote ‘the difference is not as great’, that is, the difference between Harper and Machado is not as great as the difference between Harper and Trout. Trout is clearly better than Machado.
why are we not calling him macho machado like it’s his birth name yet?
Bryce Harper is a jerk, who needs to learn to play the game the right way. Sorry, I was channeling my inner Murray Chass. Harper’s the closest thing I’ve seen to Barry Bonds since, Barry Bonds. There’s more risk with Harper, but Machado has already had knee surgery, so it’s not like he doesn’t have his own risks. I can’t bet against the guy who could possibly put up the kind of offensive numbers Harper can, but then I remember the curse of Kayla Varner and have to pick Machado.