Bryce Harper vs. Mike Trout vs. Bryce Harper
For a while there we thought the Bryce Harper vs. Mike Trout thing was done with. Trout had dusted him. Trout had dusted everyone. Is there anyone Trout hasn’t dusted? Look at yourself! You are covered in dust!
Three straight MVP-quality seasons have made Trout more than a competitor with Harper, they’ve made him the face of baseball (sorry, Eric Sogard!). Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Harper has trudged along at a good, if not great, level. Sure, he’s only 22 and playing in the majors when most of his peers are at Double-A, but at this point comparing him to the best player in baseball is just silliness. That competition is over. Or was over, it seemed, until two weeks ago.
On that Wednesday, Harper went 3-for-5 with three home runs. Since then he’s hit .535/.630/1.349 with 10 home runs and five strikeouts. Yes, his home run-to-strikeout ratio is 2:1. Yes, his slugging percentage starts with a number before the decimal. These are silly things done by a silly man who flaunts the realities of baseball before mashing them like a child playing with insects on a sidewalk. Harper’s binge has put him at 3.1 WAR on the season, 0.5 WAR ahead of second place Dee Gordon which is a weird thing to write, but whatever. You have to scroll down and scroll down and scroll down all… the… way… to… seventh before you find Trout languishing with just 2.0 WAR.
So this thing is back on, right? The match-up of the century that turned out as one-sided as the tortoise versus the hare, as Tyson versus Spinks, as boxing versus human decency, is, it turns out, not over after all. We’re all up in arms, screaming on talk radio, slamming our fat little fingers into the keys, all in excitement over Harper’s coming of age. And we should be excited about what he’s done. Harper has been legitimately amazing. But maybe we shouldn’t be quite so sure about it because he’s kinda done this before.
Consider: from April 17 through April 27 of 2013, Harper hit .455/.550/1.000 with four homers. From July 19 through August 2 of the same season, he hit .340/.377/.600 with three homers. Thomas Boswell of the Washington Post outlines some more of these mini-hot streaks here. The reality is some times players string hits together and put up super-human slash lines. Harper’s slash line is silly now, but if the statistical revolution in baseball has taught us anything, it’s to beware of small sample sizes. It takes true talent to OPS almost 2.000 in a 12 game span.
But all this isn’t nearly enough to make up for three seasons where his chief rival was essentially the MVP (remember the dust thing?). Mike Trout has a .959 OPS — or, if you prefer meaningful numbers, a 164 wRC+ — over the past four seasons, so let’s all take what the kids call a chill pill.
But it’s so hard to take a chill pill! Did you see all those homers? We’ve been waiting so long for this! Also I hate pills! So let’s look a bit deeper.
One thing we have learned, and Jeff Sullivan touched on this in a piece here at FanGraphs three weeks ago, is that despite coaching and interviews focusing on hitting the ball the other way, Harper has been pulling the heck out of the ball. Jeff includes spray charts in his piece, so since this is a What Has Harper Done Since kind of piece, I feel obligated to follow up. Here are Harper’s up-to-date spray charts, first, all batted balls.
You can see the vast majority of his batted balls are going to right field. Now all his hits this season.
And now you can also see that, shockingly, the vast majority of his hits are going to right field as well. Shocking!
I spent some time going over his heat maps and you will be further shocked to learn he’s crushing the ball. [Pause for laughter.] More specifically, he is crushing the ball to right field. [Applause.] Which, that’s where the ball goes when a left-handed hitter pulls it. [Standing ovation.]
The strange thing is that, other than how Harper’s slugging percentage over the last two weeks begins with a “2”, most of his homers during this streak have come on outside pitches that he’s pulled. Some have been high, some low, but all have been right around the edge of the plate and almost all of them have ended up over the right-field wall. There’s a reason pitchers typically stay away from hitters with power: because it’s very difficult to pull a ball on the outside part of the plate. You’ve probably heard people talking about how hitters should learn to “go the other way” on outside pitches as a means to handle getting pitched that way. Harper isn’t having any of that. He’s hitting the outside pitches, but he’s pulling the heck out of them. And they’re going for home runs.
The other part of Harper’s success is his selectivity at the plate. Despite seeing far fewer pitches in the strike zone (40 percent) than the average hitter (48 percent), he’s not necessarily leaping at the strikes he does get. He is, in fact, swinging less. He’s swinging less at pitches in the zone and at pitches out of the zone than in previous seasons. This has led to a huge jump in walks (a point Boswell makes as well). Harper is walking 21.6% of the time compared to 9.6% last season — and, despite taking more pitches, Harper is striking out less than last season as well. But when he does swing, he hits more of the pitches at which he swings, and he’s hitting them harder on average. I’m going to posit that this is because he’s swinging at better pitches for him to hit.
It’s quite a combination when you put it all together. When you put it all together, it looks like what you’d picture it would look like if someone were to make a leap in approach, in power, in how to attack a pitcher, and in understanding of the strike zone all at once. Harper has had his hot streaks before, but they weren’t typically this controlled. Batters get hot and hit line drives around the park for reasons past our understanding. This happens. Sometimes those line drives even go out of the park. Sometimes a lot of them do. Sometimes players who do that have been named Bryce Harper. But often those streaks end up back where they came — namely, a respite from the player’s usual output, but not representative of anything greater than a short postponement of typical production. This, it doesn’t appear, is that. But it is 12 games. It might still be that.
People love to compare two great players and sometimes we get lucky in baseball and the universe gives us two players worthy of comparison at a young age. On the rare occasions when that happens, we get the privilege of watching them grow up together. Harper and Trout were to be one of those rare occasions. They were to be an amazing set of future Hall of Famers, players we could equal parts compare and marvel at as they aged, and as we aged. But then Trout took a step forward that Harper never took. For three years we’ve been wondering when and even if Bryce Harper would ever do the same. Maybe he finally has.


It’s *possible* that by the end of this season, Harper will have had a better season than Trout based on age, rather than calendar year, two out of four seasons. Every time I hear Harper and Trout in the same breath these days, though, I immediately think of how “old” Kris Bryant is. Fortunately for Bryant, nobody is holding him up to an insane standard.
I’m not sure exactly what you mean, but I can’t find any way make Harper look like Trout’s equal.
Through their age-22 seasons:
Harper = 13.1 WAR
Trout = 29.5 WAR
Of course, Trout’s age-22 season isn’t complete. But he’s not going to approach that 16.4 WAR gap over the rest of the season.
Now, season-ages are pretty arbitrary. Let’s just look at plain old age. Bryce Harper is currently 22 years and 217 days old. Let’s compare him to Trout when Trout was precisely 22 years and 217 days old (just before the 2014 season):
Harper = 13.1 WAR
Trout = 21.5 WAR
There’s still no comparison. And Harper debuted when he was about 5 months younger than Trout was when *he* debuted, so Harper had a slight head start on his career.
Harper had a better age 19 season than Trout (5 WAR vs. a crappy cup of coffee) and is currently on pace to have a better age 22 season than Trout (3.7 WAR so far vs. 7.9 total for Trout). That’s what he means. Trout kicks his ass in their age 20 and 21 seasons, though.
Yeah, you got it. I meant to note that the age 20-21 gap isn’t close, but that’s also readily apparent. The career-to-date advantage is clearly Trout’s, but people gave up on Harper in part because Trout was so insane, even though Trout is also a year older.
You mean the full seasons? Those would be the only ones worth comparing.
Someone else might say that the healthy seasons are the only ones worth comparing in order to gauge the players’ relative true talent levels.
Well you can also argue that remaining healthy is a skill relating to someone’s true talent level, and that Trout is quite good at remaining healthy.
That age 22 WAR for Harper needs to be toned back a little if you are looking forward. Based on a small sample, .375 BABIP (50 points above his career average and his highest since rookie ball) and a 35.7% HR/FB rate. Seems like there will be a little regression from that 3.7 WAR going forward.
Harper is a great player but, let’s tone down Trout comps for the time being.
Health is definitely a skill, but its effect is on the ability to maximize one’s true talent level, rather than being an element of it.
Trout has also been healthy in all 4 of those seasons. This is the first time Harper’s been healthy since his age-19 season wiped the floor with Trout’s.
Like I said below, though, Mantle and Mays. Same rookie season, Mickey was 19, Willie was 20 and put up more than twice as much WAR.
Willie did turn out to be better than Mickey overall, because health, defense and baserunning, but the Mick’s best years were more “holy shit” astounding, especially from an offensive perspective.
More importantly, they’re both all-time greats.
Which of Mantle and Mays was almost twice as valuable as the other?
Stop comparing the Pope to Jesus.
Through their first three full seasons, you mean?
The answer is “Willie Mays,” who had 24 WAR to Mantle’s 13.
Trout’s been a little better than Willie, and Harper’s somehow managed to have more injury problems that Mantle, but you should really look stuff like this up before trying to climb up on a high horse.
yes nats fans, keep nitpicking meaningless shit about your players when two of the most highly regarded young players on the mets are complete garbage baseball players
What is this even in response to?
Don’t mind him, he’s very clearly mentally unhinged.
It’s calm_jay, but he forgot to take his meds again.
are we still pretending [insert nats player] isn’t good?
[Danny Espinosa]
[Drew Storen]
What?
What on earth are you talking about? Are you lost?
Oh, this guy again…
It’ll be nice for the game if Harper has, in fact, turned the corner. It’s no fun when Trout is the undisputed Best Player in Baseball; having someone nipping at his heels (and even, at times, maybe surpassing him) is great for the game. Baseball is in a very good place right now.
Yes, yes it is, indeed.
Matthew, I think you might’ve become my new favorite writer here on the site. Love the combination of wit and analysis. I hope Harper has finally turned the corner, it’ll be nice to not hear people complain that the kid who’s in his 4th season and just turned 22 is overrated.
Sadly, that day will never come.
The instant he’s no longer over-rated, the people predisposed to hating Harper will invent a new reason to hate him. (Too arrogant?) And the instant that new reason becomes difficult to justify there will be another new reason to hate him. (Only interested in his own stats?)
It’s really easy to make up reasons to hate a player. It’s a LOT harder to admit you may have misjudged a player.
Yeah, I mean I don’t really care if they hate him for other reasons, much how I recognize Lebron has probably been the best NBA player since he came, yet I still hate the shit out of him. But saying a guy who’s just now 22 and playing in his 4th year is overrated is just ridiculous. It’s like people would rather he spent the last 3 years in the minors with the rest of his peers, rather than figure it all out at the MLB level.
Harper and LeBron have nothing in common. As far as I can tell LeBron is pretty likable – not bad guy at least.
Bryce Harper is a tool. A spoiled baby. It is right there on the surface for everyone to see. I am not saying that he is going to get caught up in a dog fighting scandal, but he is not a likeable guy. He is not what anyone could call well-adjusted. He has a silver spoon in his mouth, well-styled hair and a gigantic sense of entitlement. If he were interested in representing his franchise, I wouldn’t know what his hair looked like, but he can’t wait to get that uniform off for the Bryce Harper show to begin. Where are the cameras?
He throws a fit every time something doesn’t go his way. He is 22 and expects the world to revolve around him – and as far as he knows it does. Does this make him a bad player, no. Unlikeable, yes.
I guess I am “inventing” reasons not to like him though. None of that is substantiated at all.
I’m guessing you must have missed “The Decision” then.
I choose to literally interpret Vince’s attempt at sarcasm in his final sentence.
All that stuff about Harper is bullshit, but he’s not Lebron. Lebron was the best. Trout is Lebron.
My point was never comparing Harper and Lebron’s talent, it was comparing that I can understand and appreciate Lebron is one of the best in the game, while also thinking he’s a complete douchenozzle.
Dude comments on Harper’s hair in an attempt to paint him as vain, when LeBron puts shoe polish on his head to hide his receding hairline.
Makes sense.
“Matthew, I think you might’ve become my new favorite writer here on the site. Love the combination of wit and analysis.”
YES! When it comes to Fangraphs writers, Matthew Kory just dusted all the others. Look at Cistulli. He’s covered in dust!
[standing ovation]
What he is doing this year does not mean that he wasn’t overrated in previous years. He is a how many time all-star? Until this year he had done nothing to earn any all-star appearances other than appear on the cover of SI as a 15-year-old. That along with some other age-adjusted feats.
You’re right, the kid who posted a 130 wRC+ in 1500 PAs before he turned 22 was just plain terrible. The baseball world would have been much better if he had been pointlessly crushing minor league pitching instead.
Also, I forgot that fan-voted all-star games are what determines how good a player is. You and Bud Selig must be the only people who think all-star games matter.
Glad to have you on FanGraphs, Mr. Hudson! You might want to consider spending some time working on your calling of balls below the zone rather than posting comments about Bryce’s personality on FanGraphs. We already got the message that you don’t like him loud and clear last night!
honestly, I see what you’re talking about w/ harper. I’ve read a lot about him having a bad attitude and things like that, the ‘hair flip’ and things like that. can’t deny he’s a possibly great player but he hasn’t put it all together yet and has only done it for parts of seasons. a lot can be attributed to injuries but that’s part of the game that you have to deal with. I think most of his hype though comes from him being the super can’t miss prospect mixed w/ the what if’s and flashes.
Shut up and take my money, Mr. Kory.
I’m so excited that, after two years of saying Harper was going to explode at any minute, it’s finally happened. Fingers crossed to ward off the injury bug.
Mantle and Mays, baby! Mantle and Mays.
Really enjoyed this, but I can’t help but think that Harper is pointing out a significant flaw in fWAR and WAR in general: Defensive metrics aren’t so great. I know that everyone is fully aware that it takes 2-3 years of UZR/150 to get rid of all the noise and randomness, so why would we compare two player’s WAR through less than 2 months of the season? Harper’s fWAR is straight up wrong. He’s been excellent defensively. His rWAR YTD is 3.7, seems that DRS thinks he’s been pretty good in the field. What’s more, he’s been worth 3.8 WARP according to BP. The variance shows several things: 1. DRS>UZR (especially in smaller samples) 2.Using WAR–even over a single season–in the short run to compare two players is a bad idea. 3.Dave Cameron & Marvin Hudson both hate Bryce Harper.
Or you could split the difference three ways, and call it 3.5 WAR, especially since the number really isn’t accurate beyond half-steps anyway.
Well, to be fair to Marvin Hudson, Harper did say some pretty awful things to him to get ejected:
http://www.banknotesindustries.com/banknotes-industries-top-10/banknotes-industries-top-10-10/
Personally, I still think trout is light years ahead of Harper. In 2 weeks Harper’s walk, strike out, and home run rates have skyrocketed. but his base running and overall style of playing out of control have been on a down slide since he came into the league.(unless you listen to FP, in which Bryce is the second coming)
What I’ve seen from trout is dominance, and then adjustments made to him, and he makes them back. if Harper stays hot and then adjusts to the adjustments I think then we can start talking about Mays and mantle. but one big hotstreak does not an equal to Mike Trout make. That a week ago, Trout was considered the better defender, baserunner, hitter, and then Harper goes bonkers does it put him in the same class of 3 years of offensive output that is unrivaled
But, again, this is the first time Harper’s been healthy since 2012, not to mention that we’re well past the point of walk rate stabilization.
Plus, did I just read that Harper’s strikeouts are up during the hot streak? They’re actually way down–it’s kinda hard to hit .500 while striking out a lot. He’s gone from a 30 SO% before the hot streak to 9% during it.
A lot of those strikeouts were on 3-2 counts, some of which could’ve gone either way. You could tell very early on that he was gonna break out eventually because he was so improved in the walk and fly ball departments.
It’s counter-intuitive, but I read the comment to mean that he’s greatly improved his walk, strike out and HR rates. So I guess it meant his AB/K rate skyrocketed, and the K’s didn’t really skyrocket. Otherwise, the comment doesn’t really make sense.
“we’re well past the point of walk rate stabilization”
Doesn’t BB% become meaningful around 120 PA? We are at 176 for Harper now which I would say has entered the meaningful range. That doesn’t mean we should predict a 21% BB rate from here on out; it just means that the 21% should be taken into account along with his rates from recent seasons. Correct me if I’m wrong.
I think the ‘stabilization’ data is often misinterpreted. And you can count me among the masses, because I don’t know the best way to apply it either. But to me, it’s more of a league-wide stabilization rather than an individual player stabilization. You can’t just say that a certain player has walked 10% over his last 120 PA, so that’s his new rate going forward, because the rate itself will change in different 120 PA periods throughout the year. Maybe he faced the stingy Mets’ staff 8 times this month, or maybe he faced a string of pitchers with control problems. That doesn’t always even out a 25-30 game period, especially early in the year when there’s a lot of intra-division games.
Take Tulowitzki for example. His career rate is about 10%, and he’s been over 11% for the last two years. He hasn’t been under 9% since his first full season (2007). This year he’s at 2.9% in 137 PA. I’m not willing to suggest that’s the new normal for Tulo.
Nobody is saying Trout isn’t better. The whole point of the article is that Harper has finally justudied the comparisons by putting on a show the likes of which haven’t been seen in 30 years. Bryce has had boatloads of potential his entire career and the approach this year is so exciting because it has all the signs that bryce has finally turned the corner. Plus, I’ve never seen anything like the hitting Harper has done in May. Hes hit some out that looked absolutely effortless.
Bryce is a great player. Mike is a great player. Bryce has been better this year and has finally made the comparisons to Trout reasonable.
Yeah, this.
I enjoyed the bits of humor, good read Mr Kory.
It was, and is, ridiculous to compare the two, even if they’re both young stars in baseball. Harper is more than a year younger than Trout, and he’s been held back by injuries for two seasons. There was no reasonable basis from which to project Harper coming into this season, let alone compare him to Trout.
I think we’re getting our answers, though. Trout is Mickey Mantle, but hopefully he never tears up his knees like the original. Harper looks like he will someday be the third man in baseball history to legitimately hit 60 or more home runs in one season.
I’d say Trout’s Willie, and Harper’s Mickey, personally.
I think Harper will end up with a higher wRC+ than Trout, but lower total career WAR between defense and health, much like another 19 year old OF who came up the same season as a 20 year old CF.
Also, have you seen this MLBN breakdown of Harper and Mickey’s swings? It’s scary: http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/7417714/v21298649/mlb-network-on-comparisons-between-harper-and-mantle/
Mick would have gotten to 60 if he hadn’t fucked up his knee (or been an incorrigible alcoholic). Luckily Harper’s a Mormon, so the latter won’t be an issue. Let’s hope the former isn’t, either.
How does Harper being awesome through a quarter of this season give you the answer that Trout is Micky Mantle? What exactly was the question?
But there is a big difference between Bryce Harper and Mike Trout. One of them is a likeable human being and the other is Mike Trout.
I don’t get the joke. If it’s not a joke, then I get it even less. Unlike a lot of people, I have no problems with Harper’s personality. He’s certainly intense and extremely confident, but I’m okay with that. But Trout has never so much as put a toe out of line. I didn’t know there was anyone out there who disliked Trout as a person.
If there’s one thing to hate about Mike Trout, it’s probably Subway.
Maybe he means that Trout is a baseball-playing cyborg with no evidence of a personality?
I don’t think that, personally, but I could see what he meant.
I thoroughly enjoyed Trout’s mocking of Fernando Rodney. When has Harper done anything to so directly ‘show-up’ another opponent?
I get that the narrative is Trout is the hero and Harper is the heel. I’m just curious why that narrative exists. And especially why it is 1) so ingrained and 2) the two are presented as polar opposites.
There was the time that he blew a kiss to an opposing pitcher after homering off him…because the pitcher in question had been throwing at his teammates.
But yeah, Bryce Harper is the man, and I love watching him play baseball.
Harper still chasing the big payday. Trout and Stanton already got theirs, so you see them regress a bit
Even if the premise here were demonstrably accurate, Trout’s 6/145 might not feel like such a big payday vs. Stanton’s 13/325. To say nothing if Harper gets that ridiculous-sounding 15/600 in 2019. What would Trout’s next contract be in 2021 in that case, 12/500?
Harper should take his talents to Long Beach when he becomes a FA.
Harpers approach screamed breakout for the entirety of April. He simply didn’t get much to hit because 1. Harper was getting ahead in the count early 2. Zim was struggling. Now in May with Zim and the offense heating up they had to pitch to bryce. Sure he’s pulling everything, but he’s hitting line drives out the ass. He’s shown the ability to take it the other way when needed but he hasn’t really had too, partially because of his pitch selection and partially because of his swing.
The bottom line is the same as it has been his entire career: he stays healthy he is an MVP canidate
Hey folks – jumping in here. lots of good comments. I”m a Nats fan but also a baseball fan, true and true. No doubt trout is great. But at 19′ Bryce had a nice rookie season after being called up. That was 2012. In 2013, at opening day Bryce crushed the first two pitches he saw out of the park! I was there. April ’13 like 9 homers, xx rbi’s looked like Mantle. BA was 373. Then he smashes he smashes into the wall, once, then again, he knee is killed all year. Off-season surgery. Starts ’14 a little slow then thumb ligament on slide to third. Missed like 60 games, then finally gets his power back late season and looks like Mccovey in SF against SF in playoffs. Finally healthy in ’15, and we’re seeing what he can really do. Give it a season and compare them. Harper has a boatload of talent and will only get better. Trout deserves his accolades so far though.
A famous man from India told me recently that the truth will set you free. I agreed, and told him he must be talking about Paul Pierce. He didn’t know what I was talking about. So then I told him Bryce Harper would set his mind free. He still couldn’t relate, but I I called him this week and now he’s on board. Seriously.
Bryce Harper, may you be as popular–and as utterly dominant at baseball–as A-Rod for the rest of your career.
What did Harper do to you
I’m pretty sure Harper would make that trade without thinking twice.
Sure, he is pulling the ball a lot, but that’s not to say he can’t hit the other way. Maybe he hasn’t gotten the chance yet. Look at what he’s done when he HAS hit the other way. Four dingers and a double with his fair share of pop-ups to the left side. He’ll end up being the NL MVP this year.
I’d like to revisit this article at the beginning of October. Harper is clearly a talented player. He might be the single most talented player in the league. It’s easy to chalk this up as a hot streak, but most players’ hot streaks aren’t this good. If you take a normal elite player (someone like Longoria, Wright, Stanton, etc), have they ever had a hot streak this good? Maybe they have, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they haven’t.
At the end of the year we’ll know two things though: How did he adjust when pitchers pitched him differently, and did he stay healthy all year? Those are the two most important parts, to me, when comparing him to Trout. I could see him having a 1-2 week cold spell, then adjusting and dominating again. I could also see him running into a wall again and missing a month. I’m not a fan of his, but I am a fan of excellence and it will be interesting to see if he puts it together for a full season and has a monster 12 WAR season.
Meanwhile, up the BW Parkway the Manny watch continues. Still so young , and still so good.
Yeah, it looks like the power has finally come, too!
Funnily enough, Machado is actually older than Harper.
informative piece, but I really wish fangraphs would have given it to someone who wasn’t going to write it like a jezebel or videogum article. some of us actually want to get our older relatives interested in sabermetrics, which is difficult when some of the best articles read like they were written by 14 year olds
I’m sorry you didn’t like the writing, Kevin. I don’t know what Videogum is, but I always thought the point was to be informative and entertaining. That’s what I strive for. I’m sure I miss that mark and maybe more often than not. I do my best and that’s about all I can do. Hopefully you’ll read and enjoy my next piece! Thanks for reading!
I don’t know why Harper ever fell off anyone’s radar — probably over analyzing the stats. Both are flat out 5 tool studs. Harper hasn’t stayed completely healthy either (he’ll never be asked to try to steal much like Trout either). By Harper’s own words — Trout is the best player right now hands down.