Cano’s PED Suspension Resonates Beyond This Season
Tuesday was supposed to be the day that Robinson Cano learned of the prognosis regarding the fractured fifth metacarpal he suffered on Sunday. Instead, both he and the Mariners suffered a bigger blow, as MLB suspended the 35-year-old second baseman for 80 games for violating baseball’s joint drug agreement. The news is quite a shock, to say the least, given Cano’s standing within the game. It’s also quite a coincidence given his injury.
Cano will not be paid during the suspension, which means that he stands to lose about half of his $24 million salary. If the Mariners were to make the playoffs — something they haven’t done since 2001, giving them the longest postseason drought in major North American sports — he would be ineligible to participate. He can, however, serve the suspension while on the disabled list, a loophole that should have been closed a long time ago but for some reason has not been. Edinson Volquez (suspended in 2010) and Freddy Galvis (suspended in 2012) are among the players who served their PED suspensions while on the DL. Cano will be eligible to return for the Mariners’ 121st game of the season, on August 14.
According to MLB, Cano tested positive for furosemide, a diuretic better known as Lasix. Via WebMD, the drug can be used to treat high blood pressure, fluid retention and swelling caused by congestive heart failure, liver disease, kidney disease, and other medical conditions.
Via a statement by Cano issued through the Major League Baseball Players Association, Cano claimed that the substance was given to him by a licensed doctor to treat an unspecified medical ailment. (MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand reports that it was an episode of high blood pressure.)
Here’s the statement in full:
While not a performance-enhancing drug itself, furosemide is banned by MLB because of its frequent use as a masking agent. By increasing the rate of urine flow and sodium excretion, diuretics such as furosemide can reduce the concentration of banned substances within the urine. According to the British Journal of Pharmacology, furosemide is one of the most abused diuretics among athletes because of its short half-life, as it is “undetectable in urine if samples are not collected within 24-48 [hours] after the last administration.”
ESPN’s T.J. Quinn, who has been one of the leading reporters covering the PED beat dating back to the days of BALCO and Operation Equine, said in a series of tweets (one, two, three) that furosemide is “the kind of drug a player is likely to say he took by accident and didn’t help his performance, and added:
“[P]layers are NOT automatically suspended for using diuretics. The suspension means MLB was able to prove he was using it to mask a drug. Cano tested positive before the season, appealed and dropped the appeal.
“I don’t know what the original drug was and the source I spoke to said MLB doesn’t, either. Not sure how they proved intent, but evidently they proved it well enough to convince Cano to drop his appeal.”
Ugh, ugh, ugh. Cano is the second major leaguer suspended this year, after the Twins’ Jorge Polanco. A total of 19 major leaguers have been suspended since the start of 2015, following the perdiod during which the Biogenesis suspensions had run their course. Five of those 19 have been former All-Stars, namely Ervin Santana (2015), Marlon Byrd and Dee Gordon (2016), Starling Marte (2017) and now Cano, an eight-time All-Star who made the AL squad in each of the past two seasons.
As noted previously, the Mariners (23-17, 1.5 games back in the AL West) are not well set up to handle Cano’s absence. Gordon Beckham, who was recalled from Tacoma to replace Cano on the team’s 25-man roster, owns a career 81 wRC+ and has been 0.3 WAR below replacement since the start of 2014; he got just 18 plate appearances in the majors last year. Utilitymen Andrew Romine (who’s on the 25-man roster) and Taylor Motter (who’s on the 40-man roster) both have a career wRC+ in the low 60s, meaning that they’re not good enough to justify regular play, either. Given the length of Cano’s absence, it’s worth wondering whether the team will reconsider its plan to keep Gordon, whom the Mariners acquired from the Marlins in December, in center field, where the small-sample metrics have been unflattering (-8 DRS, -2 UZR), to say the least.
[Update: Gordon will indeed transition back to second base.]
The impact of Cano’s suspension goes beyond this year’s Mariners roster. As I noted the other day, he appeared to be in excellent shape with regards to an eventual berth in the Hall of Fame, with 2,417 career hits, 305 career homers and the No. 7 JAWS ranking among second basemen at 59.0. (The average among enshrined second basemen is 57.5.) With five more years plus this one under contract, he has a chance of becoming the first second baseman to reach both the 3,000-hit and 400-homer plateaus, something only 11 players have done previously, with Adrian Beltre (2017) and Albert Pujols (2018) the most recent. His 67.4 career WAR (Baseball-Reference version) ranks 11th among second basemen, 2.1 WAR below the standard at the position (the average of the 20 enshrined second basemen), while his 50.5 peak WAR (from his best seven seasons) is tied for sixth at the position and is already six wins past the standard.
Cano’s statistical milestones and JAWS ranking may not ultimately matter much, however: neither the BBWAA voters nor those on any of the era committees have elected any player who has been suspended for PEDs. Rafael Palmeiro, who tested positive in 2005, fell off the writers’ ballot after four tries, having never received more than 12.6% despite his superficially impressive totals of hits (3.020) and homers (569). Manny Ramirez, with 2,571 hits and 555 homers, received 23.8% of the vote in 2017, his first year on the ballot, and 22.0% in 2018. Players such as Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and Mark McGwire, who never tested positive under the Joint Drug Agreement, have been held back by the weight of their connections to PEDs nonetheless, but other players more loosely connected, namely Jeff Bagwell and Mike Piazza (both of whom admitted to using steroid precursor androstenedione before it was banned in 2004), have been elected.
That said, by the time Cano becomes eligible — in 2029, if he retires at the end of his current 10-year contract — the landscape could be very different. By that point, BBWAA voters will have rendered their verdicts on Bonds, Clemens, and Ramirez, and they will have reckoned with the candidacy of Alex Rodriguez, who becomes eligible in 2022. The electorate itself will have changed in composition, with an increasing number of writers who did not cover the game during the height of the steroid era — a group that has generally regarded that chapter of the game’s history differently than older writers — gaining the ability to vote (this scribe included). Still, absent further insight into Cano’s current circumstances, one has to presume he faces an uphill battle to election.
Brooklyn-based Jay Jaffe is a senior writer for FanGraphs, the author of The Cooperstown Casebook (Thomas Dunne Books, 2017) and the creator of the JAWS (Jaffe WAR Score) metric for Hall of Fame analysis. He founded the Futility Infielder website (2001), was a columnist for Baseball Prospectus (2005-2012) and a contributing writer for Sports Illustrated (2012-2018). He has been a recurring guest on MLB Network and a member of the BBWAA since 2011, and a Hall of Fame voter since 2021. Follow him on BlueSky @jayjaffe.bsky.social.
Well this news just fucking stinks.
It stinks that he used, I wouldn’t say it stinks that he got caught.
I don’t think anyone is saying it sucks that he got caught
Even though it was eventually dismissed, the rumors and weak ties of his to the Biogenesis bust in 2013 now will carry some additional weight with many people including HOF voters
I don’t think there will be a lot of HOF voters when Cano comes up who would say “If it was only that one positive test in 2018, then I’d vote for him, but you have that 2013 Biogenesis thing, too, so he’s a no for me.” Trying to tease out how long or how much Cano may have cheated and how it affected his numbers throughout his career is a fool’s errand. I think it will come down to the fact that he was proven to have cheated and voters will decide whether they can forgive that.
He’s not going to end up in the inner-circle-if-not-for-PED crowd of Bonds/Clemens/Arod, and he’s not in the voters-can-find-a-way-to-ignore-a-positive-test-even-though-he-never-got-to-the-bottom-of-it crowd of Ortiz, and he’s definitely not in the baseless-speculation-based-on-body-size-or-rumors crowd of Bagwell, Piazza, Pudge, and others.
I think he should have tried his luck with sincerity (or at least faking it). Admit he made a mistake and that he is truly sorry. It might work for Pettitte.
Just to nitpick, I do want to make a distinction between Bonds/Clemens and A-Rod.
For Bonds/Clemens, we have a reasonably good estimate when they started using and by then both players have already amassed numbers that would have put them in HoF if they had career ending injuries.
For A-Rod, that is not the case. Canseco mentioned that he introduced A-Rod to a dealer in the late 90’s and we know that A-Rod was tested positive in ’03.
Would A-Rod have been a great player without PED? Probably.
Would he have been a HoF worthy player without PED?
Unlike Bonds/Clemens, I really can’t say ‘probably’ to this question.
And finally, w.r.t. Pudge, Canseco claimed he injected him with steroids and Pudge’s non-answer “only god knows” to the question whether he tested positive on steroids is also telling.
Fair points. I mean, really, you could look at any of these guys as individual cases, though Bonds and Clemens seem to be so incredibly the same that I just can’t imagine what goes through the mind of a voter who picks one and not the other.
bonds/clemens/a-rod…they cheated. Period. Maybe you teach your kids it is okay to cheat but I do not and I have little respect or empathy for cheaters.
My cat makes mistakes sometimes, but I forgive her.
How did they cheat??? PEDs were not against the rules in baseball at the time….
They were officially against the rules from what, 1991 on?
They were officially against the rules, but in the same way that batters that don’t attempt to get out of the way of HBPs are not supposed to be awarded first base and pitchers are supposed to deliver within 12 seconds with the bases empty.
If it’s officially banned but the ban not enforced, nobody cares, use is implicitly encouraged within every clubhouse and jobs and money are clearly at risk for non-users, it’s nudge-nudge wink-wink “against the rules” de jure while in no way being against the rules de facto.
Yeah, steroid use was bluntly ignored by MLB and the commissioner’s office for over a decade. Bud Selig is in the HOF now despite overseeing an era where he and all the owners benefited tremendously from massive men clubbing 40 homers like it was nothing.
To say “he was clearly was on steroids” and or “he wasn’t on steroids” even though guys like Ken Griffey Jr got in without any suspicion despite everyone cracking dingers like it was nothing in the height of an era where baseball players looked like professional wrestlers. 10 years after that era ended we now see a fat guy like Bartolo Colon using PEDs and a skinny guy like Ryan Braun using PEDs. We have no clue who was using what or not before MLB started enforcing drug testing.
And for Cano’s issue, people overlooked Cano’s obvious connection with his best friend Melky Cabrera, mentor A-Rod, close friend Nelson Cruz and spokesperson for his foundation Sonia Cruz all getting busted in that Biogenesis scandal and suddenly years later it looks like Cano’s probably did use the stuff that the biogenesis labs cooked up for him. Yet guys who never failed a drug test and or got caught like Barry Bonds must’ve been using something right? Why because he was massive, well guys seem to be hiding their usage better these days aren’t they?
Every person before MLB started enforcing drug testing in 2005 should be given the benefit of the doubt otherwise we’re going to be dragging a lot of people through the mud.
Just to be clear, Bonds WAS taking steroids. Its a fact. There is no benefit of the doubt to be given. The evidence from the BALCO investigation and perjury trial are more than enough as well as his retested samples being positive.
My issue with this take is that you have no idea what Bonds and Clemens were putting into their bodies even before the allegations. PED’s were around during their entire careers so there is no telling when they started them.
Eh. It’s one thing to look at Mgwire and say, “Ok. This players entire value is tied to power and BBs. With less power he’s borderline.”
Rodriguez was a legit 5 tool first overall pick. He had patience a great hit tool, stole bases and played SS well.
He was a generational athletic talent and, love him or hate him, one of the smartest most intuitive players ive ever seen. His baseball IQ was off the charts.
He’s pretty much a textbook inner circle type player. We’ve got no proof of the dubious idea of PEDS making bad players good. Seems they make players a little better. But they don’t turn someone to A rod. Is it a %5 improvement? %8? Nobody could argue its as high as %20. And %80 of A rod is still a Hall of Fame player.
Exactly.
According to Forbes Cano received $26.6 million in 2017, yet he couldn’t afford to pay an attorney to interpret MLBs Joint Drug Agreement?
At least Beckham will hustle out his ground balls
Hope you enjoy Beckham cause him running out balls to first base is all you’ll get. Be careful what you wish for.
As for PED’s, meh, don’t think I care, the cartoon baseball from the mid 90’s to early 00’s was fun to watch.
Could someone explain why Ortiz is in a different class from the others? And what separates him from Cano?
Bingo – such hypocrisy… “I love Big Popi and think he’s a HOFer because he always had a smile on his face and put up the requisite numbers. I don’t care if he admitted to and was convicted of using PEDs.
However, that Bonds character was such a cheat and a douche bag, I don’t think he belongs in the HOF as his number are tainted”
I don’t think he admitted it nor was he “convicted.” I guess the only thing that might distinguish him was he failed his test before there was a testing regime or meaningful penalties in place, so you could argue PEDs weren’t “banned” in any meaningful sense when he was juicing.
But yeah I do get the feeling that HOF voters really want to induct him regardless, even though he’d be a marginal candidate if he were totally clean.
Bonds is a cheat and was always a surly jerk and an entitled douche bag. Big Papi is probably a cheat – but one who is also a nice guy with serious charisma.
Yeah, that’s not fair. But that’s humans for you.
Bonds had charisma, just a negative charisma and you know what he was still 2-3x better than David Ortiz ever was prior when he was a skinny little Mike Trout to the time when he bulked up to be Babe Ruth reincarnated.
Bonds should be in the HOF simply because Bud Selig the guy who oversaw the era and clearly ignored everything until congress came cracking down on him is now in the HOF. There was zero enforcement of drug testing prior to 2005. Everyone who wanted to juice probably did and there are guaranteed people who used in the HOF right now laughing about how stupid guys like Bonds and McGuire were to bulk up as much as they did. A bunch of guys who also used PEDs like Ryan Braun and Bartolo Colon who don’t exactly have the type of body types you’d think of when thinking of PED users proved that you don’t need to look like a pro wrestler to have your skills enhanced.
“skinny little Mike Trout”? Dude, Trout is like 6’2″ and weighs over 235 pounds. He’s neither skinny nor little, he’s built like a damn football player.
This is off topic, but I’m optimistic that we will get more guys built like Mike Trout into baseball in the future as middle-class families push their kids away from football.
Most guys aren’t built like Mike Trout.
I said he was a skinny Mike Trout. Not that Mike Trout is skinny, ugh. He was basically Mike Trout statistically prior to his 265 pound frame days.
Rickey Henderson is an obvious PED using HOF’er. They’re in there already.
Look at Henderson’s body changes. PED’s were RAMPANT in football by the mid 70s. They were being used b the late 60s probably.
Pro athletes know each other. Peoplec really need to understand human nature. Pro athletes are obsessed with maximizing their abilities. Its a huge part of what makes them pro athletes.
These people, if they heard of a magical new drug that can make you stronger as faster? It would take a strange outlier to NOT be interested in using that. And once usage because normalized?
I played baseball in college in the mid 90s as steroids were being used. Athletes want to get better. They will do whatever they possibly can. And in that era using was something that everybody who wanted to get better was going to do.
Its pointless to judge cultures without understanding them first. You’ve got to understand who athletes are, what they want. Theyallwant to be the best. That’s all they care about. And they’ll do whatever they can to achieve that. Because that’s what they’ve been doing literally since they were8years old.
Well, the Ortiz positive is legitimatley sketchy.
First off there was no positive test really. What happened is that someone leaked that his name was on the list of people who supposedly tested positive when MLB did survey testing in 2003.
The problem with that is that even MLB says that the testing was not all that accurate and the “list” was not what people though it was. Dont take my word for it, take Rob Manfreds
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2016/10/02/rob-manfred-david-ortiz-drug-test-hall-of-fame/91442256/
So that is why Ortiz is different than Cano
Depressing. Really depressing.
I wish we could just really like players without the fear of creating the games being in the back of our heads. Cano was a guy I really liked, but now his probable steroid use and his statement, which seems to be misleading by design, have changed that.
Meh. I honestly don’t care that much about what other people choose to put in their bodies. I smoke, and drink too much, and I’m aware both negatively affect my health, but it’s my choice.
As to the cheating aspect, well as far as I’m aware there’s never been any study done that shows what impact any anabolic steroid use has on performance, so all we have is the anecdotal “yeah but look at all the dingers”. My reaction to that is “there were a lot of guys caught using PEDs and most of them were really mediocre players”. We focus on and remember the big names but forget the guys like Andrew McKirahan, Cody Stanley, Josh Ravin, and on and on.
I suppose you could make the argument that regardless of not knowing what, if any, impact various substances have on players’ performance that they knew they were cheating, and that you lose respect for them for that reason. Well… players cheat a lot of the time in a lot of ways every single game and no-one seems to care.
PED use seems to be the one thing that a lot of people get really upset about, but frankly I’m more bothered by the behavior of guys like Chapman, Osuna, and Reyes.
I will go to my grave insisting that it’s nobodies business what goes on my body. I claim full sovereignty over my body and consciousness and outright reject any societal pressure and will dismiss out of hand any law, that attempts to infringe upon that sovereignty unless it directly endangers another person.
Baseball can have rules but I’m not interested in passing moral judgements on a person for a decision that doesn’t directly hurt anyone else (I’m highly skeptical of any ancillary financial hurt to clean players some claim).
Remember guys, as Dan Szymborski says, steroids don’t help you play baseball better, never mind that Cano risked $12 million; his teams hopes, however slim, of competing this year; his legacy; and his clear path to the hall of fame to use them.
To me, this is disappointing, but the stiff punishments that guys face now for getting caught takes some of the sting out of it. On the other hand, I really hope that one day players will stop it with the “it was an accident” bullshit. You’re just telling your fans “I think you are stupid.”
They for sure help on recovering from injuries, wear down. It doesn’t have to be for performance reasons exclusively (which I agree with Szymborski, I don’t think the effect is that pronounced on performance).
One of the most interesting bits of the “Pedro” book was when he recounted a conversation in 2004 with Theo Epstein regarding a potential future contract with the Red Sox. Epstein showed Martinez a computer model predicting pitcher aging curves… specifically pitchers who weren’t using PEDs. Obviously, we’re aware today of how these things connect together, but it’s fascinating to me that front offices were so deeply and precisely aware of the precise impact of PEDs on aging and recovery as bring them into contract negotiations *all the way back in 2004*.
https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1109&position=OF
Barry Bonds had never produced a wRC+ above 200 during his first fifteen seasons in the major leagues. At ages 36, 37, 38, and 39 he produced wRC+ figures of 235, 244, 212, and 233. Anyone who argues that PEDs do not have a massive effect on performance is in staggering denial.
“Barry Bonds had never produced a wRC+ above 200 during his first fifteen seasons in the major leagues. At ages 36, 37, 38, and 39 he produced wRC+ figures of 235, 244, 212, and 233. Anyone who argues that PEDs do not have a massive effect on performance is in staggering denial.”
I am not a huge supporter of Bonds, but you picked some rather misleading stats to back up your claim for “massive effect” and the resulting “staggering denial” of anyone who sees it differently.
wRC+ is based on wOBA which is influenced by walks. At age 36-39 Bonds walked a “staggering” 200+ times each year. Not sure how you want to tie PEDs directly to a better walk rate. I am sure there are descent arguments to be made, and I can agree with some of them, but you cannot prove a direct link to that effect from PEDs.
As for the arbitrary cutoff of 200, he was above 190 twice earlier in his career, so I wouldn’t say it was totally out of his ability to get to 200 once you factor in the jump in walks.
I think it is more in line with the PEDs=recovery theme that he batted 600+ times in 15 out of 22 years in the league and only once less than 400.
*facepalm* I can’t believe you’re making me do this when anyone with a brain and access to Barry’s page can see the blindingly obvious truth, but fine, I’ll say this instead:
Barry Bonds had never produced an ISO above .400 during his first fifteen seasons in the major leagues. At ages 36, 37, 38, and 39 he produced ISO figures of .536, .429, .408, and .450. Anyone who argues that PEDs do not have a massive effect on performance is in staggering denial.
Also, from 1986 through 1999, Barry Bonds hit three home runs that traveled more than 450 feet. From 2000 through 2004, Barry Bonds hit twenty-six home runs that traveled more than 450 feet. Anyone who argues that PEDs do not have a massive effect on performance is in staggering denial.
This is at a time when expansion diluted pitching, the ball was almost certainly juiced and training and weight lifting became wide spread and scientific. What about all the players who also had big power increases and weren’t using? EVERYBODY hit for more power in those years. Derek Jeter was hitting 20 home runs. And PED users like Randy Velarde were not seeing any significant improvement in their play.
It’s impossible to ever know how much the drugs helped. It cannot be done. It isn’t even worth trying.
There will always be strange outliers and there is no way to tie all that to PEDs. So what would Bonds have done those years? A rod was using PEDS at the same age and he played like a 36 year old.
We have no idea what, if any, actual effect the drugs have on actual performance. %10? Higher? Impossible to ever know.
I would love it for Cano to come out and say “I took supplements not to get stronger or better but to recover faster from injury. I know that my fans want to see me out there every day, and I want to be out there every day. In my frustration with trying to recover from injuries, I turned to banned supplements. It was dumb, and it sets a bad example for kids and minor leaguers. I really regret it, and I won’t do it again.”
Even if it’s bullshit, at least it’s partly honest.
I wish I could find the article I read it in but I remember Bonds saying something along these lines…”helps keep me on the field…yada yada”
Right. Thats why whole countries have had state run doping programs for their athletes. Because they dont do much.
The whole “recovery” aspect of PED’s is a bit misunderstood. It doesnt keep you healthy or make you resistant to injury. It means your body recovers faster from exertion so you can push it to do things it could not normally handle. IE: You can work out longer and recover from it faster so you can workout again sooner. Which leads to more gains in strength , speed, etc etc than you could ever achieve normally.
If you dont think that is performance enhancing I think you are not very smart.
Agreed, TKDC. The expression that comes to mind is “don’t piss on my head and tell me it’s raining.”
I do believe that’s a Judge Judy quote!
The evidence accumulated by players who we know did use steroids very conclusively proves otherwise. For instance, Barry Bonds transformed from a great player to a superhuman one at age 36. There is a pervasive myth among the general public that steroids just help you train longer and recover from injuries faster, but it is well established in medical studies like those by Bhasin that taking steroids without doing any exercise at all will actually produce more muscle growth than someone who doesn’t take steroids but does weight training several times per week.
jdbolick – The study you linked does not say that. Strength gains were, in order:
testosterone + exercise
placebo + exercise
testosterone + no exercise
placebo + no exercise
Incorrect. Look at Table 4 again. The testosterone + no exercise group gained 10.5% in fat-free mass, 11.8% in triceps area, 6.7% in quadriceps area, and 9.4% in bench press weight. The placebo + exercise group gained 2.8% in fat-free mass, 1.4% in triceps area, 5.4% in quadriceps area, and 9.2% in bench press weight. The only category in which the placebo + exercise group outperformed the testosterone + no exercise group was in squatting kg lifted, which is presumably due to how much technique matters on squats.
Off topic a little, but it’s interesting that Bonds and McGuire are assumed to have used prior to 2004 and are in exile, while those admitting to have used prior to 2004 have been elected. Possible causes include media relations (Bonds) and surpassing historic milestones (both – perhaps older writers liked their generations’ records and didn’t like them being broken).
Or another possibility is that McGuire simply isn’t a hall of fame’r by any measure other then cultural influence, however short lived.
As for Bonds, well Bonds is an a$$hole that no one in the game can stand (at least that’s how it appears) I’m not saying bonds isn’t deserving of the HoF, personally I think it’s stupid that he isn’t inducted, I’m just saying if every cop is behind you on the freeway it doesn’t matter how well you drive, your bound to get a ticket. Bonds pissed off everyone around him and he “cheated”, this is his ticket.
McGwire: Career 66.3 WAR, 583 HRs, career 157 wRC+
If that’s not hall of famer I’d love to know who you think should actually be in the hall
Actually, that’s on the edge; there are multiple 60+ WAR 1B who are not in the Hall or are committee inductees. None of them have McGwire’s counting stats, of course, but by WAR alone he’s in the zone where he’s more likely than not, but not a lock.
And that’s why I didn’t just list his WAR. 583 HR is about as automatic as you can get (barring PED discussion). Only 10 guys to ever play have hit more home runs than that, and the only thing stopping some of those guys from getting in is PEDs, not stats.
McGuire is not assumed to have used. He admitted it.
Off topic as well, but looking at that Jaws list, how is Bobby Grich not in the Hall of Fame.
Mostly the name.
You’re a mean one.
Hayves belongs in HOF with that comment. I didn’t even read it I just heard the song!
And how many times will this be written should he somehow be inducted in the future?
In Cooperstown they say that the Veterans Committee’s hearts grew three sizes that day
People sometimes see extra letters that really aren’t there.
Booby Grich?
Grich, Tony Oliva, Minnie Minoso, Joe Torre (as a player), and Dick Allen all need to be in the Hall.
I think he’s going to have to finish his career strongly to make the hall. The taint is on him forever, but if he finishes strong (and has no more positive tests) he can show that it wasn’t just the roids.
Or he finds another way to mask his steroid use and not get caught…
Or just doesn’t get unlucky again. If this stuff isn’t detectable after a day or two, what are the odds he’d get caught if he spent a significant amount of time using PEDs and this every year? They test 350 players in the offseason plus HGH tests and extra tests for people who have been caught before. Fewer than half (and is that 40 man rosters, so 350 of 1200?)
I think A-Rod’s HOF vote will be a referendum on what to expect for Cano. Manny was busted multiple times, so I think it’s a little different to compare.
Not exactly. With Arod, his accomplishments if you ignore the steroids is 100% HOF. Every voter would agree. So you need 75% to be able to look past the steroids. Now, you might say that Arod’s connection and what went down was worse, and I’ll grant you that some might view it that way. But if they don’t, then you need 75% to both be okay with the steroids AND to think that Cano is HOF material. He’s a ways away from having the same 100% resume that Arod finished with.
That’s why I said it’s a referendum. If ARod comes up and gets 50% on his first ballot, okay, maybe in several years Cano will start around 25%-30%. But if ARod gets in on the first ballot, I can only assume that the stance on Cano will be similar.
I would be interested to know what you are “ignoring” and what you arent. Because to me it seem entirely arbitrary.
If you think ARod just woke up one day and decided to start taking PED’s and that there is a clear line between “Clean ARod” and “PED ARod” then I have a bridge to sell you. Its much more likely (At least in my experience, and I do have some unfortunately) that he was probably using for the majority of his career and gradually ramped it up.
I have never ever met a juice head who just went 0-60 all in one go.
I don’t think so to be honest.
ARod had a lot of PED stuff around him for a lot of years, carrying back at least to his days in Texas, and all the way to his one year suspension. There was a constant PED narrative around ARod that no-one is likely to forget. With Cano this is the first time so maybe it won’t become so synonymous with his name.
Meanwhile, on the other hand, Rodriguez is almost inarguably one of the 10 or so best to ever play the game, and no-one would argue that if it were not for the PED stink on him he would be an automatic 95%+ first-ballot HOFer. Cano really isn’t in that echelon.
Basically ARod was a much better player with much longer and deeper ties to PEDs so I don’t think his and Cano’s cases will be that similar.
That’s not true, there were links of Cano to known PED distributors.
It seems almost certain that Cano dropped his appeal as soon as he knew he was going to be out for an extended time so that he’ll serve a large part of the suspension on the DL.
That’s my thought as well. I almost always assume guilt in this scenario but I read Cano found out about the potential suspension back in Spring Training and was planning on appealing. But now that he breaks his hand he decides not to appeal? Seems like the injury made up his mind for him. No reason to risk an appeal when he’s going to be out with the hand injury for almost the exact same amount of time.
It does cost him $12m, which suggests that he never thought he had much chance to win the appeal. Which in turn suggests that he was using it as a delaying tactic in case exactly this scenario arose.
Maybe I’m naive or insane, but as a 33 year old who’s been amazed at what random drugs and medicines my doctor has wanted me to take for things (and who sees multiple doctors, who insist on one drug over another) I can’t help but think that there’s a nonzero chance that Cano is guilty of exactly what he’s said – taking a medicine for an actual health issue. (And no – I’m not a Mariners fan. Just a guy who hit his early 30s whose body started to rebel for the dumbest reasons).
It seems like this is a huge problem with the science of drug testing. A blood pressure pill isn’t a PED – but the technology we have apparently can be fooled by one, so that’s the same as a steroid.
The whole thing sucks, no matter what.
The problem with that scenario is MLB is reported to have good enough proof of intent that he dropped the appeal and coughed up $11-12M.
That is not a trivial sum. If he had taken it solely for medical reasons he would be fighting for his money and would have a decent chance.
There is also the matter of which doctor prescribed the drug and his track record. The Doctor might have a juicy history of his own.
Follow the money.
Indeed, if he really was innocent he would have just showed MLB the doctor’s prescription and diagnosis and be done with it. You’re not walking away from $12 million dollars if you’re innocent, no matter how rich you are, especially if it also taints your credibility.
He almost certainly has a prescription and diagnosis. Getting those custom made costs a lot less than $12 million.
Which why the Doctor’s rep matters.
Well, you guys are probably right. But it bears mentioning: even if he IS innocent of the spirit of the rule (he wasn’t taking PEDs), he’s NOT innocent of the letter of it (the medicine he’s admitted to is banned). So showing the doctor’s script wouldn’t actually do anything other than show he was, indeed, violating the rule. There isn’t an exception for ignorance.
He’s DEFINITELY guilty of breaking the rule – he’s admitted to that. I just think there might be a non-zero chance that he’s innocent of actually cheating (though I understand that in MLB’s eyes, cheating and breaking the rule, even accientally, are the same thing).
There’s a long-established and well-used process for MLB players to be prescribed banned drugs if they need them for medical purposes. There are dozens if not hundreds of players a year doing it, and if for some reason the player himself is unaware of the process he can always get help from his agent or union rep.
Ok. So… Cano didn’t do this. No matter what, then, he’s guilty of not following the collectively bargained policy on drugs and medicines. Whether that’s ‘cheating’ or not (I.e. This was purposely taken to mask PEDs) is open to speculation. We went through this with Chris Davis – he got popped for an amphetamine (an ADHD drug he’d been allowed to take previously), but hadn’t filed the paperwork for the waiver. He broke the rule, he was suspended, and that was that.
I think it’s possible that Cano is way more like Davis than Bonds, is what I’m saying. He screwed up and did the wrong thing, and is being punished for it. But I’m not sure that necessarily makes him a cheater.
Willfully blind much
Bless your heart
ashlandateam you forget this community can read the minds of players and knows their intent. You can’t say “maybe we should believe what he’s saying” because they’ve already glimpsed into their Kreskin crystals and seen the truth. Even proposing that perhaps there’s the chance at a possibility that maybe a guy who has no character blemishes on his record made an honest stupid mistake is unacceptable. “Keeping an open mind” = “being willfully blind.”
Absolutely no comparison to an average person.
1. You most likely aren’t subject to any drug testing for your job. If you are, you would be more diligent about asking the right questions whenever a new medication is prescribed.
2. Cano’s doctor knows he is a MLB player. He is probably paid well to make sure that his treatments do not conflict with drug testing.
3. AND FAILING ALL THAT, he has the resources to make absolutely, positively sure that anything he ingests is on the up and up. He has agents, the Union, the League, access to other doctors, etc, etc. These are things that average people don’t have.
It’s simple – if you are a professional athlete, subject to random drug testing, you should triple check every single thing that you let pass between your lips. Whether it was on purpose (which it most likely was) or accident, I have no sympathy. The only potentially viable excuse that I can see would be something like fraud or malpractice. The player was told that he was taking ‘x’ but the doctor either intentionally or negligently gave him ‘y’. The odds of that happening are incredibly long. Especially where ‘y’ is a banned substance.
Not really on the topic of Cano, who has made quite clear there was no error in the process, but the odds of just being given the wrong thing by a dispensing pharmacy are startlingly high. It’s a good idea to always make sure the pills are the right ones even if you aren’t drug tested.
No kidding. How hard is it to, before ingesting a drug, call your agent and ask “can you make sure this is legal?”. Agent verifies with MLBPA or whoever and let’s the player know yea or nay. Probably a 15 minute process, would have saved Cano $12M.
Aside from people trying to make weight, athletes in training don’t get prescribed drugs that do nothing but make them dehydrated
You seem to be implying you’re a voter. What is your vote?
I’m a New York-based fan, and it was exciting to see Cano develop into a consistent threat at the plate and a reliably good second baseman. I continued to root for him when he played for Seattle, and was hoping a few years of solid returns would make his exorbitant contract worthwhile. Certainly, I hoped to see him someday inducted into the Hall of Fame. I don’t want to say this is “devastating,” since after all this game is a diversion and a pastime, but it sure is a letdown.
Say it ain’t so, Cano.
Will reserve judgement til I hear the full story if I every do because I like to think the best of people.
It worth considering in his defence:
A) he probably wasn’t doing it for the money
B) he was aware of the risk to his team/reputation if he got caught.
C) he was aware there was a healthy chance he would get caught
I’m interested in people’s thoughts on why he would do it.
A) he really wants to win a championship with the mariners enough to risk money/reputation
B) he is physically struggling enough to feel he had to compensate anyway possible because he can’t handle his own decline .
C) he’s really stupid.
I just can’t for the life of me fathom a reason that makes sense if he had any common sense at all.
Are you assuming he started recently?
If the masking agent disappears in 24/48 hours, I don’t know, how many times do you have to take it? Maybe it was just really bad luck that he got called for a test at the exact wrong time. Everyone in the know says that there are plenty of guys cheating and getting away with it. Perhaps the chances he would get caught were only 1%. But if everyone cheating has a 1% chance of getting caught, and there are, lets say, 300 cheaters, then three will get caught.
They do 350 offseason tests a year plus a few for people who have been caught before. So less than half of players get tested in the offseason.
The biggest factor for using steroids is recover from injuries, wear. As you age, that happens more frequent, muscles, ligaments start hurting more often, you can’t prepare the same, etc.
I get that. I just don’t understand why he would do it now. He has a ring, the money… just seems odd he would start/continue considering what is at stake for him if he did use it to mask.
I will still prefer to believe him until proved otherwise because he’s human and we make mistakes, his mistakes are just very public… yours are not. He may be a professional athlete but many of us are professional ‘x’ and if we/I mess up i would like to believe my word and actions means something.
This is a common myth but it is completely false. Taking steroids and doing absolutely no exercise will produce significantly more muscle mass than not taking steroids but weight training several times per week: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101
That is total bullshit that has been made up by people who got caught and need an excuse that sounds better than “I wanted to be better and make more money”
Anabolic steroids have zero healing properties. They exist solely to help you become bigger, stronger and faster. And they 100% are effective in doing so.
HGH also has zero healing properties before you get into that. It is a hormone that is responsible for growth and development. People take it because it increases muscle and bone size which in turns makes you stronger , faster etc etc etc.
He did it for the same reason incredibly rich hedge fund managers get caught inside trading.
Because he wanted to win and be the best. It’s irrational. But that’s what it is. Because many people can’t or won’t judge themselves or create their self image by who they are but rather only in contrast to others. It’s an insidious form of insecurity.
Alex Rodriguez is exhibit A in this phenomenon.
If Cano tested positive before the season, why wasn’t he suspended then?
because we have a scummy commisioner…a crook
He was appealing the finding and appeals are confidential to protect the player’s rep until the ruling is final.
due process thru the labor agreement.. Simple.
It’s tough being a Mariners’ fan.
They’ve been having a good year, too.
In light of that, we should have known this was coming.
PEDs are mainstream now. My hairdresser takes steroids and tells me about his cycles. Every fitness you-tuber takes steroids. All of those players mentioned are undoubtedly some of the best players to ever play the game and should be in the HOF. They need to be remembered and so does their use of PEDs. People need to get over themselves and realize that to be the very best at something you need to be willing to do things other people will not, which is normally work harder, butfor more than a decade that included working ‘smarter’ and using PEDs which were not banned by baseball at the time.
that’s a classic straw man argument. You’re arguing about how things should be. That is not what the debate is about.
Did the M’s trade for Dee Gordon before or after Cano failed his drug test?
I was wondering why they wouldn’t move Gordon to 2B and get another CF since Gordon hasn’t really gotten used to it yet, but it seems like 2B are easier to come by than CF. I’m not sure they’d need to acquire Gordon preemptively. There are guys like Cesar Hernandez and Neil Walker to be had fairly easily.
They were available fairly easily in the offseason. Now, not so much.
This is something that we haven’t fully thought through yet, but will become obvious: There are a lot of teams that need help at 2nd base, and not a lot of trade options. Merrifield has control, so the Royals don’t need to move him (although they probably should). The Phillies are winning now, and the Mets and Twins both still think they can win–so Hernandez, Cabrera, and Dozier are likely all staying put. Neil Walker is hitting terribly. So is Jonathan Schoop. Lots of teams are beating themselves up for not trading for Jed Lowrie and would probably love to trade for him, but the A’s aren’t out of it yet so who knows. Starlin Castro is okay, but expensive. Meanwhile, the D-Backs, Brewers, Cleveland, Mariners, and maybe Blue Jays (depending on where Solarte lines up) all have lousy 2B options and designs on winning. Maybe the Reds sell high on Scooter Gennett? It’s gonna be interesting seeing how this all shakes out.
Brandon Philips is notably available.
Kipnis!
Free for the asking, just ask any Cleveland fan.
The Yankees and mariners have a history of trading with each other. Neil Walker could easily be had, w Drury cooling his heels in the minors, and Ellsbury could be had for a plate of day old sushi.
As noted in the update line they are in fact sliding Gordon back to 2b.
Supposedly the Mariners were informed of this yesterday.
so fishy how how he tested positive before the season but now the commisioner wants to make him serve his time right after he goes on dl. sad how commsioner is ruining the game.
This is how the process was bargained to happen. The Commissioner has no discretion. I think we’d all prefer someone had anticipated this loophole during the last CBA negotiations but there’s nothing to be done about it now unless the union wanted to reopen the topic. Which seems unlikely given current relations.
I do think even less of Cano for manipulating the appeal process. That’s worse than the PEDs as far as I’m concerned.
Everybody appeals. The injury is incidental and simply meant that he had much less of a reason to continue it, which is perfectly understandable. In the circumstances, I’m sure you would have done the same.
Well, he had $12 million reasons to continue it. IMO, he dropped the appeal because he was likely to lose as much (or more) as he did because he would be hurt for a majority of the suspension.
The 12 million reasons thing gets old real quick. He has about 50 less reasons (the number of suspended games covered by DL if he was out until the ASB). That’s good enough for someone who will make $288 million for his career after taking that $12 million hit.
Sadly Cano is a cheat. should be banned all time from MLB. Steroids are just a prevalent as they always were in the 90s, drugs to mask are a whole lot better. Thats how guys never get caught when they obviously took them.
It’s interesting to me that the outrage we have as baseball fans (or faux outrage) dwarfs that of the fans of other sports by huge margins when it comes PEDs. I guess it’s good that people care that much… or is it? Guys get dinged in football all the time and no one blinks an eye. The amount of outrage seems proportionate to the level the player is.
I remember when the Cardinals Rick Ankiel got dinged when rehabbing in the minors. No one (locally or nationally) said much of anything about it. Is it because he has no HOF shot? It seems we only get outraged by the ones who have a chance at the Hall. The rest just go by the wayside.
Im not saying it’s good or bad or right or wrong. We just seem schizophrenic about it as fandom, thats all.
To quote Maximus… “Are you not entertained!?!?!”
Is it that baseball fandom pays less attention to PED use by lower caliber players, or that baseball journalism pays less attention to it because covering low profile players isn’t as profitable as covering the stars?
I think for-profit journalism might be steering our perception of where the outrage over PED usage lies. Fans don’t really have a platform to express this outrage and thus their opportunities are limited to the coverage given by sports journos…
Unless when the Ankiel bust happened you were literally searching social media for keywords like “Ankiel/PED’s”, there’s no way to measure the level of disappointment from baseball fans over it.
You obviously don’t follow bike racing. It’s reached the point where anyone good is assumed by a large number of fans to be on PEDs. And far too often, the fans are right. Stay tuned for the outcome of the Froome case, probably coming soon after the Giro.
I wouldn’t call it outrage, but obviously people will care more when a potential HOFer gets caught. People tend to like superstars.
Wait until Brady, Rodgers, etc. gets busted. Baseball got its rep and reaction because it let it go on for a long time and its stars were heavily involved and implicated.
I do agree it’s strange how little football fans seem to care about football players getting busted.
I hope we eventually learn a bit more about the evidence that he was using furosemide to mask PED use. That’s the real issue here – I interpret Quinn’s explanation as meaning the positive furosemide test wouldn’t do anything without the corresponding evidence of intent. So Cano’s “I took what I tested positive for so I accept my suspension” statement rings even more hollow than these statements usually do. Obviously there was more than that, or he wouldn’t have dropped his appeal, DL or no. $12 million and postseason ineligibility is a big deal.
I am really confused by all the cloak-and-dagger, wink-and-nudge reporting on this. Why do we only learn about the (seeming) likelihood that it was more or less proven that he was using it as a masking agent via a bunch of anonymous leaks on Twitter? Why won’t MLB just come out and say what they know?
The Union.
…protecting its players so MLB can’t do whatever they please.
I think you guys are talking about something different from what I’m talking about, the appeal process itself rather than the reporting. Or at least I don’t see how the confidentiality of the case against the dropped appeal matters now that the suspension is public — why do you see it as a union priority to want the result of the process to be more public than the argument that led to that result, which we all still more or less know while no one is willing to talk about it non-anonymously? You think the union likes the appeal process, after it’s concluded, to inhabit this weird media gray zone where it can be leaked but not acknowledged openly? Why?
By limiting what is publicly acknowledged they allow him the fig leaf of an excuse because he’s still going to be playing once the suspension ends.
The union cares because he is one of the bar-lifters in the $200M club and most of those contracts have ended up poorly, one way or another. If he were a marginal player trying to hang on or a minor leaguer he’d be hung out to dry but “some animals are more equal”.
Just to bring a little bit of insight from the medical perspective. I’m currently a first year medical student. I know I’m not a physician that has been practicing for years so I don’t know as much as a licensed professional knows, but hear me out. Furosemide is a very powerful diuretic, in fact it is one of the most effective that we have. However, it’s not typically the first line choice for treatment of hypertension. That’s usually hydrochlorothiazide or an ACE/ARB. Furosemide is usually needed in a really severe case, it’s used in hospitals for things like congestive heart failure for example, or as a later stage drug for long term, complicated hypertension. It’s not, typically, a medication that I’ve been taught to prescribe to a, I’m assuming, reasonably healthy, young adult.
Could it have been something other than hypertension? Of course. Could he have really needed it? Of course, I’ve never seen his medical record. All I’m saying is it’s unlikely that he really suddenly really needed it.
I think the question that kind of haunts this stuff is that, while each individual player using it is likely just using it as a screen, there is a situation where dominican players spend the winter in their home country with sub-par medical care, and often trust their local doctors. It may be that Dominican doctors DO prescribe a more universal, more powerful drug for a variety of reasons: for example, it may be the only hypertension treatment that is heavily discounted and distributed because it will work for all cases, or because one manufacturer participates and makes it and the alternative option isn’t discounted, or a whole host of other reasons.
The problem with the excuse is that it’s not farcical when you consider the poorer educations, resources and access to medications of doctors in the DR.
While true for most Dominicans, Cano has the resources and incentives to see only the doctors he wants to.
At $24mil a year Cano certainly has the resources to check with the team medical staff to check if a drug he is taking is above board, regardless of location.
I hope the next generation of writers who vote on future Hall of Fame candidates hold the same standards for honesty and integrity as the current & past writers do. I’d hate to believe that future writers would reward cheating by voting in known PED abusers.
This could completely change the Mariners strategy at the deadline as well. I’m sure they’ll wait and see how things play out for at least another month, but with LF already an area of need, the bullpen inconsistent and now CF vacated with Gordon filling in for Cano, you have to wonder how likely they are to seriously contend.
Crap.
Well, at least now we know the secret of how he stayed so productive so late in his career.
Cano’s aging curve is pretty normal.
In his prime as a 27-31 y.o. he had wrc+ 141 and 5.0 war average.
Then through his 32-34 y.o. seasons, he had wrc+ 121 and 4.0 war average.
The problem is that this actually implies that Cano might have been using for a looong time.
Looking at his career, I have concluded that he’s probably been using since he was a teenager.
Legalize steroids, ya fucking dummies.
Sure, why shouldn’t baseball be like boxing and NFL in encouraging young men to ruin their lives and long-term quality of life to make a buck and entertain the masses.
As part of the masses, I say: no.
here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergogenic_use_of_anabolic_steroids
Also, look up Lyle Alzado.
PEDs of all kinds are about chemically forcing the body to do things it can’t do naturally. That will unavoidably have negative consequences. Baseball is not a blood sport. Concussions and other accidents are enough of a health problem without intentionally adding a bigger one.
Wait, how the hell is Cano 11th overall among 2B in career WAR but 2.1 below the average of the 20 already enshrined? Are Hornsby, Collins, Lajoie, and Morgan just skewing the average that damn high? I’d have expected the likes of Mazeroski to counteract that top-heavy bias.
Not many sub-par performers elected at 2B.
As noted repeatedly, even worthies like Whitaker and Grich are out.
There are only 2-3 HoFers below 50 at 2B, I think? Mazeroski + Hornsby averages out to 81.75 (127 and 36.5) while Collins+Schoendienst averages to 83.15 (124 and 42.3). Johnny Evers (47.7) and Nellie Fox (49) are only other 2B below 50 career bWAR. Frisch, Sandberg, Carew, Gehringer all also have 68+ bWAR, two over 80, and are counted. Then there’s Morgan and Lajoie over 100.
If Cano tested positive before the season as stated, is it possible that the Mariners were REALLY playing the long game when they traded for Dee Gordon? As in, they knew about this test and the possibility they’d need a 2B?
I just remember a lot of people questioning the move because he’d never played cf before
They knew.
I believe Gurriel had to begin the season NOT on the DL for his 5 game suspension clock to be running. Is that wrong or is there a difference here?
Unlikely excuse as this drug is not the diuretic prescribed for initial hypertensive therapy.
probably best to assume they are all on drugs
how do guys not on drugs beat the guys that are?
Lance Armstrong 2.0.
Go to your doctor in the DR, open a Cano-worms.
As someone on Lookout Landing commented, at least the national press now refers to Cano as a “Mariner” instead of “ex-Yankee.”
I don’t see how they could possibly close the “DL loophole”. You can’t serve a suspension on the DL? Fine, don’t put the injured players on the DL. Just let them serve the suspension, possibly while claiming they’d be on the active roster with their broken hand or whatever other injury, were it not for the suspension. Is MLB really going to get in the business of policing who would or would not be physically capable of playing if they weren’t on the suspended list?
i agree. ‘the loophole’ doesnt need to be closed and it would be nearly impossible to enforce anyway.
This is why I root for laundry and not for players. I don’t pretend to know anything or assume anything about a player’s character or moral compass. I almost bought my girlfriend an Aaron Hernandez jersey days before he was arrested for murdering a bunch of people.
I wonder if the NYY knew this when they let him leave as a free agent.
As of now you have a lot of company.
The stigma of juicers is because nobody knows how long they got away with it. A week? A year? Their entire career?