Cole Irvin Talks Pitching

Cole Irvin has epitomized the term “crafty lefty” in his first season with the Oakland Athletics. In seven starts covering 41 innings, the 27-year-old former Philadelphia Phillies pitcher has a 3.29 ERA and a 3.54 FIP, and he’s fanned 37 while walking just six. A StatCast darling he’s not. Irvin’s four-seamer averages a pedestrian 91.2 mph, and his fastball and curveball spin rates rank among the lowest in the majors. No matter. Much to the consternation of opposing hitters, the erstwhile Oregon Duck is gobbling up outs with a combination of command, moxie, and guile.

Irvin — acquired by the A’s from the Phillies for cash considerations over the offseason — discussed his cerebral approach to the art of pitching prior to last night’s game.

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David Laurila: You’re enjoying a level of success that in many ways belies your pitching metrics. How are you doing it?

Cole Irvin: “When I first learned pitching, I was reading about Tom Glavine and Greg Maddux. There was a book that came out from the Atlanta Braves pitching coach [Leo Mazzone] when the Atlanta Braves rotation was as good as it gets back in the ‘90s. And then, when I really started pitching, I was watching Cole Hamels, Cliff Lee, and Roy Halladay. I’ve just always been taught to be a pitcher.

“The first thing I was taught when I got to high school was to have a good changeup. In California, the baseball crop is very good. I don’t think I hit 90 [mph] until my senior year, so the ability to pitch was obviously something I needed to have. In my league, we had Austin Hedges, Gerrit Cole, Trayce Thompson … a bunch of guys everyone knew would be big-leaguers. The ability to pitch was something I had to pick up pretty quickly.

“I was never told to throw harder. It was about repeating my delivery and thinking through the game, as opposed to really getting it up there. Now, in the past I have been able to throw hard. I’ve hit 98 in the big leagues. It was versus Cleveland, and I remember it distinctly. Maybe that’s the reason my old team — the [Phillies] coaching staff — wanted me to be fastball/slider: I had 98 in my pocket and could throw a slider off of it. But I lost the ability to pitch because of that.

“I don’t spin the ball. I’ve never been a spin-rate guy. I don’t use any stick, or anything like that. What I want is to be able to pitch and read a hitter’s swing, and it takes a lot of practice to do that.”

Laurila: I was planning to ask you about your low spin rates, particularly your [2,059 rpm] curveball. It’s a good pitch, but would it be even better with more spin?

Irvin: “To be honest, I don’t think it would. The fact that I’m throwing it out of the same arm slot as my fastball is where I think the deception comes from. Now, I have tried to learn how to spin it more. I also feel like I’ve found a good way for me to think that I’m spinning it more — maybe that helps? — but in reality, the numbers don’t [show] that.

“What I have is confidence in my ability to throw everything out of my fastball arm slot. Guys like to throw different pitches in between innings — they have a routine with that — but I only throw fastballs in between innings. That’s because my fastball allows my changeup to come out of that same arm slot; it allows the slider to come out of the same arm slot… and then the curveball is going to be slightly different, but the way I’m leaving my glove, the way I’m releasing the ball, is all going to be close to the same as my fastball.”

Laurila: You throw both a four-seam and a two-seam, correct?

Irvin: “Yes. Four-seam, two-seam, modified circle-change, slider, and curveball.”

Laurila: Are your four- and two-seamers distinctly different?

Irvin: “They are. Then again, I threw a four-seam fastball on a 3-2 count against [Kevin] Kiermaier the first time I faced the Rays, and the ball just took off in the last 10 feet. So sometimes the four-seam plays with the two-seam, but the reason the four-seam is so effective — and I use it around the same rate as my two-seam — is because I’m throwing it out of the same slot. It looks like my two-seam coming out of the hand, and I have true, almost 100% efficiency on the four in terms of spin. Maybe that plays up? I don’t know what the hitter sees.

“That said, I’m reading the hitters and understanding what we can do in terms of my film study of what we can do with hitters. I know my sinker is going be good. I know that my four-seam, my changeup, and my sinker is a combination that I’ve always used and trusted. But I got away from that when I was in Philly and trying to stick in the big leagues.

“I was doing everything I could by listening to coaches, and until I kind of took a step back and looked at how I got to the big leagues… it wasn’t until then that I was like, ‘I really need to start throwing my sinker again; I have a good changeup and need to trust it; that’s what got me here, and I need to continue to do that.’ So that’s really what I’ve relied on, having those pitches and then using the slider and curveball to keep the hitters off-balance.”

Laurila: You’re similar to Brandon Woodruff in that you reintroduced a sinker to your repertoire, giving you two different fastballs. Of course, Woodruff throws 98, and you’re 91-92.

Irvin: “Right, but in the grand scheme of things, I could throw 98. I choose not to. That’s because I want to pitch into the ninth inning and can’t maintain 95-98 through eight innings of baseball. I want our bullpen to have a night off; I really do. I believe that wholeheartedly. I want to pitch deep into the ballgame, and for me to do that I’ve got to mix speeds and stay at the bottom of the zone, and then mix it up every once in a while. That’s how I like to pitch. I like to be in and out, up and down. I’m also not scared of pitch counts.”

Laurila: Is there simply too much extra effort being expended for you to go deep into a game at 95-98?

Irvin: “I mean, yeah, there is that extra effort. You know, when I was finishing that game against the Blue Jays, I was 94, but I wasn’t… I still had more in the tank, just in case I would get to go out there for the ninth. I was starting to ramp it up inning by inning, and I was able to maintain velo in those late innings.

“It’s all feel. Sometimes in certain innings I feel a little bit more comfortable throwing 86-88 with more movement and command. Then, the next inning I’ll be like, ‘OK, they saw me take a little bit off, so now let’s add a little bit.’ I’m mixing speeds. There’s a time to add and subtract.

“Coming out of the bullpen, I could throw harder — without a doubt — because I’d know my innings were short, and I’d know that I could come back the next day and do it again. But as a starter, I have to be able to mix speeds and trust my command more than I do velocity. And when I throw it harder, I don’t think I’m spinning it any differently. Plus, I actually think the ball might look bigger to the hitter when I’m throwing it harder.”

Laurila: Can you actually get more movement with less velocity?

Irvin: “I know that I can. It’s all about understanding how your arm works, how your body works, how you repeat your delivery. And one of the biggest things for me is… for instance, say a ball goes through the infield and the umpire doesn’t take it out. I’ve learned from my experiences in baseball, as a pitcher, how to manipulate a scuffed baseball. I’m not doing it on purpose, but if they’re not going to remove the ball, that’s an advantage to me. It’s not cheating. It’s one of those things where I’ve learned how to pitch with baseballs that have a little bit of a wrinkle to them.

“I’ve been taught why you want to pitch with a scuffed ball, or why you want to throw in the rain, or why you prefer to throw in the cold. There are a lot of things I’ve learned through my past experiences, and past coaches, about the ability to pitch in certain conditions, and with ‘this’ ball.

“I’ve thrown out a few balls. One that I definitely threw out was a ball [Kyle] Schwarber hit off the ivy against me when I pitched for Philadelphia. That ball came back lopsided. I was like, ‘There’s no way I can throw this.’”

Laurila: Was it cool for you to see what John Means and Wade Miley did?

Irvin: “Absolutely. That just goes to show that… I mean, baseball is such a unique sport in that we can have the 100-mph hurlers, and we can have pitchers. Right now the game is in a really interesting spot. Every team’s 40-man has six or seven guys that can touch the upper 90s, and three or four that stay in those upper 90s. I’ve always admired that, but my preference has always been a good pitching matchup where guys are actually executing pitches and thinking through the game. It’s fascinating to see how guys attack hitters in their own way. The recent no-hitters were definitely cool.

“I’ve watched Dallas Keuchel quite a bit, in terms of how he commands the ball. He doesn’t throw particularly hard, he just gets outs. It’s a lot of fun to watch him manipulate a baseball. He’ll sink it. He’ll cut it. He’ll keep hitters uncomfortable, not knowing what’s coming. That’s pitching to me.