Comparing Chase Headley With Jacoby Ellsbury
It’s pretty easy to poke holes in Chase Headley’s free agent case. Three years ago, he was one of the best players in baseball, but it was based on an anomalous power spike that immediately regressed and has yet to reappear. For the last couple of seasons, he’s essentially been a slightly above average hitter, and while he’s produced +8 WAR over those two years, that value is heavily based on his defensive contributions, which teams generally haven’t paid market price for.
If you don’t think Headley is an elite defender, then he’s basically just a good role player, a solid contributor but not any kind of star. And he’s now heading into his decline phase, and since defense peaks early, you probably want to regress that aspect of his value more heavily going forward.
Interestingly, however, that entire paragraph also applied to a member of last year’s free agent class, and the player who fit that same description signed a seven year, $153 million contract. That player, of course, is Jacoby Ellsbury, and his contract with the Yankees was the third largest deal handed out last winter; only Robinson Cano and Masahiro Tanaka received larger paydays than Ellsbury. Ellsbury and Headley aren’t really the same kind of player, but they hit free agency with similar kinds of pros and cons.
And their career numbers are actually pretty darn similar.
| Name | PA | BB% | K% | ISO | BABIP |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jacoby Ellsbury | 3,839 | 7% | 13% | 0.143 | 0.321 |
| Chase Headley | 3,944 | 10% | 23% | 0.144 | 0.331 |
| — | — | — | — | — | — |
| Name | AVG | OBP | SLG | wOBA | wRC+ |
| Jacoby Ellsbury | 0.293 | 0.347 | 0.435 | 0.343 | 109 |
| Chase Headley | 0.265 | 0.347 | 0.409 | 0.334 | 114 |
Or, if you prefer, their numbers from the three seasons prior to hitting the free agent market.
| Name | PA | BB% | K% | ISO | BABIP |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Chase Headley | 1,830 | 11% | 23% | 0.168 | 0.320 |
| Jacoby Ellsbury | 1,691 | 7% | 14% | 0.166 | 0.331 |
| — | — | — | — | — | — |
| Name | AVG | OBP | SLG | wOBA | wRC+ |
| Chase Headley | 0.262 | 0.352 | 0.429 | 0.344 | 123 |
| Jacoby Ellsbury | 0.303 | 0.356 | 0.469 | 0.359 | 123 |
Ellsbury’s lower strikeout rates lead to a higher batting average, but Headley’s walks make up the difference in on-base percentage, and the slugging difference is due solely to Ellsbury’s additional singles already being captured in batting average; their Isolated Slugging marks are almost identical. Once you adjust for the ballparks they’ve played in, Headley’s overall batting line actually grades out slightly better from a career perspective, and exactly the same on the three year timeline.
Of course, Ellsbury didn’t get paid for just what he does at the plate, as it is his overall game that make him one of the game’s better players. Ellsbury’s an elite baserunner, while Headley is, well, not. Ellsbury’s a center fielder and Headley is a third baseman, so even if you think Headley’s a very good defender at third base, Ellsbury’s ability to play an up-the-middle position will be more valued by Major League teams. And Ellsbury hit free agency heading into his age-30 season, rather than the age-31 season that Headley is selling, so he got a little bit of a youth premium that Headley will not get.
I won’t attempt to argue that teams should be lining up to give Headley the kind of contract that Ellsbury received last winter. In many ways, Headley is an old-player skills type, and Tony Blengino showed that his power decline the last few years can’t all be explained away by the effects of Petco Park. Guys like Ellsbury historically age pretty well, but Headley’s walking a fairly thin line; any loss of bat speed, and he’s probably a platoon player whose only real asset is his glove.
But when looking at Headley’s contract — he reportedly has a four year, $65 million offer on the table — this winter, we can’t entirely ignore Ellsbury’s deal from last winter. Like Headley, Ellsbury’s been mostly an average hitter who had one big power spike several years ago. Like Headley, Ellsbury’s status as an impact player depended heavily on the importance of defense, rather than simply judging him on his performance at the plate. Perhaps we shouldn’t be too surprised that the team that signed Ellsbury is also the team that traded for Headley in July. Or the one that plays Brett Gardner in left field. Or just traded for Didi Gregorius.
The Yankeees pretty clearly value defense, but they wouldn’t have had to spend $153 million to sign Ellsbury unless someone else put a high value on his non-hitting skills as well. And given that the Yankees are apparently not the team that made the 4/$65M offer to Headley, it seems that they aren’t the only team to see Headley as a valauble player either. While he doesn’t measure up to traditional standards of an impact player, Headley has produced +3.5 WAR per 600 plate appearances over his career, and even if you knock some of that down for aging and defensive regression, you’re still looking at a guy who is pretty easily an above average big leaguer.
The question isn’t whether Headley is as valuable as Ellsbury. The market is confirming that no Major League team thinks that Headley is Ellsbury’s equal, regardless of their career numbers, or the projections that actually think Headley might be as good or better in 2015. Teams clearly don’t think Headley is Ellsbury’s equal, but how big do we think the gap really is between them? How much more valuable does Ellsbury’s athleticism and speed make him? How much more emphasis should we put on Ellsbury’s defense in center field than we do Headley’s glove at third base? How much more do you pay for the fact that Ellsbury hit the market a year younger, or has a skillset that will likely age a bit better?
Ellsbury is worth more, but the performance differences don’t suggest that Headley is worth half of Ellsbury’s future contributions. And yet, even at $65 million, Headley’s reported best offer would earn him 42% of what Ellsbury for last winter. Even just ignoring the extra years, 4/$65M for Headley would pay Headley just 73% of Ellsbury’s AAV, and Ellsbury’s annual salary would have been higher had he settled for a four year deal.
Keep Ellsbury in mind as you hear a lot of shock and dismay about a player like Headley signing for the kind of money he’s reportedly going to get. He might not fit any particular kind of type that star players usually look like, but even in his down years, Headley has been a league average hitter with a very good glove. For all intents and purposes, Headley has been what Jacoby Ellsbury would be if you took away his speed. Is baserunning really so valuable that makes up the difference between $65 million and $153 million? It certainly matters, but does it matter enough that we should be skeptical that Headley is even worth a fraction of what Ellsbury got last year?
I don’t think so. I think that, even at this price, Headley has a chance of being a pretty nifty bargain.
Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.
He does look like a bargain. The Nats should sign him and put Rendon at 2B, assuming they can’t/don’t get an alternative solution through trade.
Ellsbury had questions about his ability to stay healthy going into free agency as well
So does Headley. There are concerns about his back. Ellsbury had various unrelated injuries from running into people while fielding or on the base paths and the like. Headley has had knee surgery and has had nagging back problems. That’s why teams are worried about giving Headley too many years.
If all 30 major league teams are telling us “We don’t think Chase Headley is as good as projection systems suggest”, don’t you think it’s likely there’s something about him they aren’t picking up?
They might have more reliable defensive metrics that don’t value him quite as much.
You’re right. They should just shut this website down. I, for one, just assume that all 30 MLB teams act correctly and don’t need any words and phrases and such to question that.
Easy Big Fella. Don’t act like someone is making a personal attack on you for openly questioning whether a projection system is overrating someone who gets a lot of his value from defense, which the creators of said projection systems even admit are not as accurate as offensive metrics. Someone needs a timeout.
vital comment
We do not yet know how teams actually value Headley. He may yet receive a 5-year, $100m offer. I do not see anything about Headley that makes me think Pablo Sandoval (5-years, $95m) will be more valuable over the next 5 years. There are probably multiple GMs who have similar views.
Seriously. I’ve been saying that since October.
I actually think Sandoval is a much better comp for Ellsbury. They’re basically the same hitter, and derive a lot of their WAR value from good-not-great defense.
Had he actually signed for $65/4 then we’d have strong evidence that at least 29 teams didn’t think he was nearly as good as Ellsbury (the 30th team might well just think they’d gotten a real bargain).
What we actually know now is that there’s reported to be at least one team that thinks he’s worth at least $65/4. That he hasn’t signed yet makes it seem likely that his agent thinks there’s a second team out there that thinks he’s worth more than that.
There’s also the factor of teams over-valuing other teams players.
We’ve seen teams overpay to acquire a player while simultaneous removing them from a rival or potential playoff foe (lackey, ellsbury, etc).
Teams seem to be much more like to overpay a player to come to their team than they do to stay.
We’ll see when he actually lands. Our “market rate” is set by the team willing to pay the most, and so far we haven’t seen who pays the most for Headley. On December 8 it’s hard to say what the market thinks, really.
Sure. But that has happened yet.
one is over-valued, the other under-valued. the yankees paid too much for ellsbury and now they may not pay enough for headley.
It’s not that 65M/4yr is a bargain, it’s that the Ellsbury contract was over-priced.
Can’t both be true? They’re not mutually exclusive.
65M/4yr is reasonable, not a bargain. If I were a GM I would have a hard time stomaching more than that.
Yeah, something like the Ells or Sandoval deals would be a gross overpay.
Yeah, the a Ellsbury contract was as bad as the Panda one.
Good analysis if the only other player in the league to compare with is Ellsbury.
I understand that these analysis are context neutral but without it, it’s hard to understand teams actions or the actual value relative to performance without it. A team will pay exponentially more for a player that is only marginally better than average. Since baseball is a zero sum game, in Ellsbury’s case, the addition of Ellsbury is a direct negative to Boston making an overpay (if it even was) more palatable.
Except that the Red Sox didn’t even offer $100 million. The Yankees didn’t need to make that offer to take him from the red sox. Plus, if the red sox had signed him they might have already traded mookie or they wouldn’t have signed Hanley/Pablo due to financials so it isn’t just like they took Ellsbury and the Red Sox lit the money they were going to pay him on fire.
Yes but by overpaying for Ellsbury, they saved the Red Sox from potentially overpaying, which is a net negative for the Yankees. Even for those teams, money is in limited supply. If the Sox had Ellsbury’s contract right now, they’d be in much worse shape, with too many OFs and probably unable to make a run at Lester or Scherzer.
They have too many outfielders even without Ellsbury. They just signed Hanley to be an outfielder. And the argument that the Yankees saved the Red Sox from overpaying Ellsbury would be a bit more interesting if they didn’t turn around a year later and overpay for Sandoval.
Yeah, the Sandoval deal makes the Ells one a lot more palatable.
I think it is relevant that Ellsbury had a better season prior to free agency. Also he was really only one season removed from that great year because the one after was marred by injury so the hope that he still had the ability was greater while Headley has had two healthy since his big year which was not as big so he is further removed from it.
Im I the only one who puts extra value in to the high-batting average OBP?
Walks avoid outs, but do not get the runner in from second base.
No. wOBA does exactly that, as does wRC+.
It should be pointed out, however, that walks can’t be defended against. Players will have lower BABIPs due to good defense or bad luck in where they hit the ball. Walks aren’t subject to that sort of random fluctuation.
But a hit is not definitely a single. It could be a double, triple or home run; a walk can’t. Balls in play also have the potential for misplay and can push runners on base more than just one base forward.
Dave did point out though that the only difference in the two batting averages was singles. They both had the same iso.
Balls in play also have the potential to turn into two outs instead of one or zero.
On a bad hitting team like the Yankees, walks are worth less, and base hits worth more than wOBA and wRC+ give them credit for.
Pitch framing “defends” against walks to a certain degree, but your point is still valid.
To me, the biggest issue with Headley is that we don’t really know how valuable his defense is. If you look at his performance last year, most people would think he had a down year. Very few would think he put up over 4 WAR. Same thing for 2013 – he was a ‘disappointment’ who racked up almost 4 WAR. Of course, a large portion of that is due to defense, and different metrics rate him differently.
Looking at the ‘Advanced Fielding’ portion of his player page from 2012-2014, he saved over 35 runs according to UZR. He saved 15 runs according to DRS. That’s a pretty big difference. If teams’ internal defensive metrics are more in line with DRS, and their offense projections aren’t weighting his 2012 season too heavily because they think it was flukish, then I can see why the offers aren’t pouring in.
So he’s probably somewhere in between, around a +8 defender.
I don’t think Steamer is valuing his 2012 offensive or 2014 defensive production too strongly.
And he’s being projected for a 3.9 WAR with a 112 wRC+ and a UZR of +9.3.
Seems completely reasonable to me.
And if free agents, as Dave Cameron predicted, will be getting 7.5 million $ a win this off-season, then Headley has to be worth around 9 WAR over the next four seasons to be worth 65M.
Seems doable to me.
I would think that Headley’s back must be an issue too. Hard to know the detail on that, but if there’s medical information that suggests it could be a long-term issue that would seriously dent the length of the offers. Ellsbury’s injuries were real, but could more readily be attributed to fluke events.
It’s not really correct to say that teams “haven’t paid market price” for defense. Just, the market price for above average defense has been lower than the market price for above average offense, right? Which it probably should be, since defense peaks early and is difficult to measure, among other things.
“Yankees value defense”
Enough to have let Derek Jeter play shortstop for his entire career…
sigh…..
In the past few years, there has been a pretty clear trend of the Yankees valuing guys who play good defense, with the Ellsbury and McCann signings, trading for Headley and Gregorius, extending Gardner. All considered plus defenders.
Jeter does look like an outlier, but given his status, do you think they would push him off of short?
The guy is a Yankees hater being a Yankees hater. No reason to engage in a conversation about Jeter’s defense. It’s been beaten into the ground since 2008.
Get off my turf, Les.
The fuck? Don’t be a prick and use other people’s handles.
Who are you?
The Wire is overrated.
Having Derek Jeter play shortstop for his entire career clearly killed the Yankees franchise. What were they thinking?!
My god, it’s made of straw.
…it is a sarcastic comment in response to the snarky suggestion the Yankees can’t possibly value defense because they let an all time great play shortstop for his entire career. Jeter playing shortstop is (obviously) no more evidence that the Yankees do not value defense than is the Rays playing Jose Molina at catcher evidence that they do not value offense.
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Something else this article did not address is the disparity between the pay of OF, especially CF, versus 3B. I don’t recall what the difference was (it was an article on FG, so I assume the author is familiar with it), but that analysis found that the $/WAR was much higher for OF than it was for infielders (except 1B). Perhaps that accounts for the large disparity between the offer for Headley vs. the contract that Ellsbury got.
The contract that Sandoval got was priced more like the signing of a free agent DH (which from what I recall, was similar to 1B $/WAR), than it was like free agent 3B, if I recall that study right. I don’t got time to dig up that article, hopefully someone else here remembers that study (Matt Swartz, I think, did that analysis)
Oh, found that article: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/why-do-first-baseman-get-paid-so-much/ Forgot authors are listed on the side.
I’m off a bit, but I ended up pretty close, while corner OF got paid a lot more, CF didn’t. But it did account for some, 3B are paid 78% of what CF got, and per the article, Headley is at 73% per the rumored contract offer. Since no contract has been signed, perhaps there is still some space for an improvement on the deal to get to that 78%.
+ cost of living. Ellsbury’s purchasing power from $150 Mil in NYC would be equivalent to the purchasing power of $100 Mil in Tampa after cost of living was factored in. Headly’s $65 Mil in Tampa would be worth $100 Mil in NYC after cost of living. This is why Tampa doesn’t trade for guys mid-way through large free agent contracts even when the other team offers to take on salary – they are afraid that if a player disagrees with management they might buy the team and fire everybody.
Anyone who thinks the market is undervalueing Headley should read the Tony Blengino article that Dave linked. The picture it paints of his power decline over the past 2 seasons raises real questions for me about how good a hitter Headley really is right now, let alone how he’s likely to age over the next 3-4 seasons. I wonder how many teams run their own data similar to Tony’s and simply don’t see him as the above average hitter that Steamer projects?
You are not comparing apples to apples here.
Let’s not forget Ellsbury helped a Red Sox team win a world series. How many times has Headley played in the play offs compared to Ellsbury?
I like Headley and hope the Yankees sign him but Ellsbury is a 5 tool talent in the MLB Headley is not. I think Ellsbury is over paid and I think Headley will end up being over paid but comparing them is completely in-accurate they are not even on the same level.
A CF with great speed, sold bat production and a team leader does not compare to a 3rd baseman that played on a sub par team and had one good season, he is a solid d 3rd baseman but the rest is average.
Just my two cents take it for what it’s worth!
I would say: less than $.02.
Says “McCann Guy”.
No, I’m the guy who correctly said in 2013 that Brian McCann was worth a lot more than Chris Stewart, both offensively and defensively, and projected to be continue to be so in the future. The events of 2014 don’t change the fact that I was right at the time, anymore than Peyton Manning getting shut down by the Bills on Sunday made it a bad decision to start him when I set my lineup on Saturday.
No idea who this other guy is, but it really rubs me the wrong way that someone’s imitating me.
People are wrong all the time. No big deal. But you were also miserably condescending and painfully sure of yourself while being wrong. But alas, that’s also not uncommon. Here’s what I don’t get: Even with a history of being dead-wrong, you continue to speak on these boards like an egotistical hack, citing rare instances where you stated the obvious as evidence of some unrivaled ability to see the future.
I wasn’t wrong, though. Everything I said was entirely true at the time.
I was a dick to the guy making a cherry-picked Saltalamacchia comp. Salty was a full win worse than McCann last season, without considering pitch framing or looking at RE24 (Saltalamacchia’s RE24 was almost 10 points lower than his wRAA), so it wasn’t that bad an overpay, even before you get to McCann’s biggest strength.
It’s also true that McCann’s offense was a good bet to be about 3 wins better going forward than Chris Stewart’s, when I said it.
Coming into 2014, McCann’s career wRAA/650PA was 15.8, while Stewart’s was -29. The fact that Stewart set a 74 point career high in BABIP, while McCann had a very rough first three months in pinstripes, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t expect McCann to not be 3 wins more valuable offensively going forward.
So, basically, I have no reason to be embarrassed about what I said about McCann. The people whose arguments I savaged were being dumb, and I was correct to mock them.
As far as I can tell, the people who claim the ability to “see the future” are the ones trying to play “gotcha” for my comments on an article from a year ago, because everything I said in that section was objectively correct based on the information we all had at the time.
“Everything I said in that section was objectively correct based on the information we all had at the time.”
There is nothing “objectively correct” about forecasting. This line of thinking was your error then, and this line of thinking is your error now. The “information we all had at the time” was interpreted differently by other people. You decided to mock those other people. Those other people wound up being right. You wound up being wrong.
Subsequently, you say you were not wrong, because. . . well, because you SHOULDN’T have been wrong (I absolutely love that logic by the way)! Because (by your estimation), you made the best argument YOU could based on the information available at the time. Do you realize how asinine this position is, or is that over your head as well?
“And I was correct to mock them”. . . Please stop being so condescending on these boards. And while you’re at it, stop building straw-men. Big Poppa Pump is here to reign in that big head of yours.
How about you actually critique the argument I made a year ago, rather than calling me out for being condescending.
It’s telling that you haven’t done that yet, and instead are resorting to petty ad hominem, because the only critiques you can make are in hindsight.
And, what’s more, they weren’t right. McCann was worth at least $10 million more than Salty, and $17 million more than Stewart. He was a better signing than either would have been.
So, the question becomes, is it more pathetic that you have to try to refute me by cherrypicking shit I said over a year ago, or that you can’t even use that cherrypicked example as evidence of my being wrong?
Considering that I’m wrong all the time, it’s weird that everyone keeps harping on something I was right about.
You are a straw-man machine.
Tom’s argument was that Chris Stewart would be worth more than Brian McCann, considering a $17 million gap in annual salary. And assuming that $17 million could be spent elsewhere.
You stated, bluntly: “Chris Stewart sucks at blocking pitches and at throwing runners out. That’s not even getting into the fact that McCann’s offense is, in fact, worth about 3 more wins than Stewart’s.”
I still love how you used the words “in fact” while projecting offense. You are a legend my friend.
Anyways, 2014 happened, and Stewart’s wRC+ was 100 and McCann’s was 92. Stewart produced almost half of McCann’s WAR in about a quarter of the plate appearances.
Not only was Stewart more valuable than McCann considering their $17 million salary difference (which was the argument), he was also more valuable than McCann ignoring salary altogether.
But (and you even surprised ME here), now you still maintain that: “And, what’s more, they weren’t right. McCann was worth at least $10 million more than Salty, and $17 million more than Stewart. He was a better signing than either would have been.”
How on earth do you reach that conclusion? I almost envy your delusion. That ability to bend facts like metal. To rewrite history months after it happened. A part of me loves it, I’m not even kidding. Keep doing you Cool Lester Smooth.
Wait…are you actually pro-rating Stewart’s performance to claim that he would have been as valuable as McCann? You know that that isn’t how it works, right?
Stewart was worth 1.4 fewer WAR than McCann last year. 2.0 if you use RE24 rather than wRAA, and 2.1 if you include pitch-framing.
The fact that he put that up .9 WAR in 150 PA as a backup doesn’t mean he would have put up 2.7 WAR 450 PA as a starter. It just means that he put up .9 WAR in 150 PA as a backup.
Unless you also believe that Scott Van Slyke (2.8 WAR in 246 PA) was more valuable than Yasiel Puig (5.1 WAR in 640 PA) last year, I’m not the one “bending facts” here.
Lester, are you really glossing over the fact that there is a $100 million difference between these guys?
Just give it up. His point seems to be that when somebody gives their 2-cents, don’t respond “I would say: less than $.02”. Be respectful, or this sort of thing happens, where you wind up looking like an imbecile.
That wasn’t me. That was some prick using my handle.
I never go ad hominem first.
Just taking a look at who else is available for 3b…eep. I think Headley could easily hold out for more $$…
Except that teams that need a 3B can also trade for one instead.
The Donaldson trade surprised a lot of people; other than that, are there a lot of teams willing to part with an established third baseman (if they have one of upper-shelf quality)? There have been some rumors about Trevor Plouffe, but other than that, teams with good young 3b’s probably want to hang on to them (Frazier, Machado, Arenado, Carpenter, etc.).
I would be on board with Mil offering him 4-5yrs at $65-80, so we could move Rameriez to 1B and have A-ram healthy for a full season…
I watched almost every one of Headley’s at bats with the Padres. He had two good – no, great – months, hitting for average and power, and also clutch. The rest he was average or less than average…or worse, much worse. His OPS was 19th last year for 3d basemen (or something like that). He’s 31 with a bad back. Buyer beware!!
I ran a Play Index to find comparable third basemen to Headley and got a pretty good list with 14 names running from Eric Soderholm and Bill Melton to Darrell Evans and Graig Nettles. Six had good careers into their mid-30s. Defence for the good ones usually maintained until age 31, but was perfectly acceptable at age 35. I would guess that the developed fine skills necessary to play the position and the arm strength allow the good defensive third baseman to keep at it despite a loss of quickness on the first step.
Doug DeCinces would be a good comp for Headley. Low average, good secondary skills hitter with a one-year power spike at age 27 and good defence at third. DeCinces had the best year of his fine career at age 31, and then gave the Angels five decent years from age 32-36.