Could Ichiro Have Been a Power Hitter?

When asked recently about his post-retirement plans, the fabulous Ichiro Suzuki provided a response as memorable as his career: “I think I’ll just die,” he told Clark Spencer of the Miami Herald. It’s possible that he might just play forever. So it’s premature to call this remarkable at-bat in Seattle on April 19th his last in Seattle, as many did when it occurred.

But it does remind us of another great response Ichiro provided — one that gave life to the idea that he would be a great Home Run Derby entrant. “If I’m allowed to hit .220, I could probably hit 40 [homers],” he told Bob Nightengale back in 2007. “But nobody wants that.”

Ben Lindbergh once looked at the hypothetical shift in Ichiro’s outcomes if the player had attempted to hit for power, but now that we have even better batted-ball data, we can maybe take a look and see if he could have even been that 40-homer hitter at all.

Take a look at Ichiro’s batted balls last year, plotted by exit velocity and launch angle. See how his best contact clusters near zero to 10 degrees?

Last year, Ichiro hit two ground balls for every fly ball, good for top 30 among those batters who stepped to the plate at least 350 times. To get a sense of what that means in context, let’s compare his batted balls to someone on the other end of the spectrum. Here’s Ryan Schimpf, among one of the most extreme fly-ball hitters of all time.

You Aren't a FanGraphs Member
It looks like you aren't yet a FanGraphs Member (or aren't logged in). We aren't mad, just disappointed.
We get it. You want to read this article. But before we let you get back to it, we'd like to point out a few of the good reasons why you should become a Member.
1. Ad Free viewing! We won't bug you with this ad, or any other.
2. Unlimited articles! Non-Members only get to read 10 free articles a month. Members never get cut off.
3. Dark mode and Classic mode!
4. Custom player page dashboards! Choose the player cards you want, in the order you want them.
5. One-click data exports! Export our projections and leaderboards for your personal projects.
6. Remove the photos on the home page! (Honestly, this doesn't sound so great to us, but some people wanted it, and we like to give our Members what they want.)
7. Even more Steamer projections! We have handedness, percentile, and context neutral projections available for Members only.
8. Get FanGraphs Walk-Off, a customized year end review! Find out exactly how you used FanGraphs this year, and how that compares to other Members. Don't be a victim of FOMO.
9. A weekly mailbag column, exclusively for Members.
10. Help support FanGraphs and our entire staff! Our Members provide us with critical resources to improve the site and deliver new features!
We hope you'll consider a Membership today, for yourself or as a gift! And we realize this has been an awfully long sales pitch, so we've also removed all the other ads in this article. We didn't want to overdo it.

Now we see a peak exit velocity around 30 degrees. This reflects the reality that Schimpf has fashioned a swing that produces the best contact in the higher angles. He’s a power-hitting, going-for-homers type, and the best angles for home runs are between 20 and 30 degrees. It looks like his approach fits his desired outcome and his own unique peak angles.

But as much as it describes him as a very different batter than Ichiro, it doesn’t answer the question completely. Given the fact that Schimpf is younger, it’s not crazy to think his elder had even better exit velocities during his own peak. If true, does that mean Ichiro could he have simply forced his peak exit-velo curve to the right, to look more like Schimpf’s? If he were hitting 105 mph regularly, Ichiro could have compiled a lot of home runs just by getting the ball in the air more.

In other words: is a player’s ideal swing an innate, fixed thing? Or could almost any hitter benefit from the push to elevate and hit more fly balls? Joey Votto seemed to suggest this weekend that batters should focus on finding their own best swing and not chase trends when he talked to Zach Buchanan about the fly-ball movement.

“Where I get concerned is the guys that make this attempt and burn out too much of their time and don’t get a chance to be their best selves, and either don’t make it to the big leagues or don’t perform their best in the big leagues because they’re always attempting this new style of hitting,” Votto said. “I see it with a lot of guys. Everyone tells the good stories, but there’s a lot of s—ty stories of guys who are wasting their time trying things.”

Maybe there’s a way to answer this question with year-to-year correlations. We could see if the angle at which a batter produces his peak exit velocities is “sticky” from year to year. That would probably be better done with more years than the mere two on our ledger, though.

In the absence of more complete data, however, we can at least look at a couple hitters who have shifted their launch angles and discovered more power. If they simply shifted the amount of balls hit in a specific angle range, but their peak exit velocities were still achieved in the same ranges, then there’s an argument that they perhaps shifted the distribution of balls to better fit their own unique swing.

We’re in the midst of watching Yonder Alonso attempt to join Team Elevate. We won’t have a ton of data for this year, but let’s look at this anyway. First comes 2016, and then this year.

This chart looks like a lot like Ichiro’s above. It has that peak near zero, but it doesn’t fall off as quickly when you follow the angles away from that peak. Still, it looks like a ground-ball hitter — and it belonged to a guy that hit 1.3 ground balls per fly ball. This year, however, he’s hitting 0.6 ground balls per fly ball.

So, there are obviously fewer data points here — and let’s not put too much weight on that peak dot out by the 30-degree-angle mark. It’s clear that Alonso has shifted the distribution, but we don’t know that much about his peak-exit-velocity launch angles right now.

So let’s instead look at another player who’s elevating and showing more power for it. Jeff Sullivan just looked at Elvis Andrus, so let’s ask his data if he changed his swing plane completely, or just changed his batted-ball distribution to fit his natural power angles better.

This is Andrus in 2015, when he was in the process of adding a leg kick that added power. There’s a peak range between zero and 10 degrees, and really mostly zero to five. Let’s compare to his 2016, when he was employing that kick to great results.

Seems clear that the peak velocity range for Andrus is still in that zero- to five-degree band. It looks like he’s still got the same peak-exit-velo range, but that he’s just moved the distribution of his batted balls so that he’s hitting fewer ground balls with poor outcomes. His average launch angle didn’t even change that much, from 8.1 degrees in 2015 to 8.6 in 2016, but it’s clear the distribution changed a bit.

If this is true — and it requires more research to know if it is indeed true — there might be ramifications for players in the midst of joining Team Elevate. Alonso should perhaps take note. If his peak-exit-velocity range is still zero to 10 degrees, and he’s just switched his average launch angle from 10 degrees to 20 degrees, he may be shooting himself in the foot a bit. He’ll be hitting fewer balls in his ideal range, at least. His change may be too radical.

Baseball seems to have assumed that ideal launch angle had something to do with desired outcomes. You hit a ground ball and hit it softly if you’re Billy Hamilton and you want infield singles. You elevate if you’re Jose Bautista, looking for home runs. Somewhere in between there’s an ideal angle for line drives and home runs that has something to do with your size and weight and speed.

But this look suggests that players may have their own ideal launch angles based on where their own exit velocity peaks. Maybe Ichiro was right never to try lifting the ball more.

Thanks to Andrew Perpetua for the data collection.





With a phone full of pictures of pitchers' fingers, strange beers, and his two toddler sons, Eno Sarris can be found at the ballpark or a brewery most days. Read him here, writing about the A's or Giants at The Athletic, or about beer at October. Follow him on Twitter @enosarris if you can handle the sandwiches and inanity.

23 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
JS7
9 years ago

“Chicks who dig home runs aren’t the ones who appeal to me. I think there’s sexiness in infield hits because they require technique. I’d rather impress the chicks with my technique than with my brute strength. Then, every now and then, just to show I can do that, too, I might flirt a little by hitting one out.”

– Ichiro

Dominikk85Member since 2020
9 years ago
Reply to  JS7

Technique vs size, most men think the latter is more important:)

dl80Member since 2026
9 years ago
Reply to  Dominikk85

Actually, men think it’s more the former; women think it’s more the latter.

Shirtless Bartolo Colon
9 years ago
Reply to  dl80

Better to just be safe and have both.

Justin CMember since 2020
9 years ago

This is great. Thanks Eno. Are results maximized at peak exit velocity? Or to put it another way, would Alonzo or anyone else be better off accepting lower exit velocities to get higher launch angles?

TheWrightStache
9 years ago
Reply to  Justin C

I was wondering the same thing. As long as you keep the EV north of the “donut hole” at least.

southie
9 years ago

I tend to live my life just accepting Ichiro is a baseball samurai that can do anything he chooses on a field.

frivoflava29
9 years ago
Reply to  southie

This wouldn’t surprise me, seeing as he’s nearly 1,000 years old in baseball years.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
9 years ago
Reply to  frivoflava29

That’s an elf, not a samurai. If you’re referring to an elven samurai, are you talking about some D&D character with an 18 on dexterity?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
9 years ago

I think Votto (and the article) are 100% correct about this. Batters have different strengths and weaknesses. The key is to find the swing that maximizes exit velocity based on your body, coordination, etc.

David PalardyMember since 2022
9 years ago

I really like the graphs, but I feel like the individual points make them a little hard to parse out. Maybe a heat map would be helpful here.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
9 years ago

He could have certainly hit for more power, I could easily seeing him doing the schimpf an selling out for power. I even see him making much better contact than schimpf, his Ks would go up but not to schimpf territory who is really a one trick pony.

However I still don’t see him ichiro as a great HR/Fb guy he had some but not really great pop. with a better launch angle I could see him hitting 20 to 25 hr with about 15 to 16 percent Ks but a 260 babip and a 10 percent HR/FB rate, kind of dozier with less power.

Would that be a better hitter? I’m not sure about that. His walks might get up a little too with that approach (ichiro had a good eye with a career 28% outside swing rate and could have taken more walks if he had waited for a fat pitch middle in) but im still not sure he would have been a better hitter.

Lets say he hits for a 265 average, 10% BB and .180 iso. he would be about a 265/350/445 hitter with low 20s homers. That would be about the same hitter he was in his prime except that ichiro would have been an afterthought (undeservedly) and not a first ballot hall of famer.

If he was a 30 plus guy or could somehow do this without a cost like altuve or murphy it could have made him better but I don’t see even that kind of pop in him, likely he just had great barrel control to hit them at the right angle in batting practice and lifting the ball would have costed a ton of fly outs for every homer.

The fly ball revolution is real but most of the guys were hard hitters who just learned to hit it at better angles.

Arjon
9 years ago
Reply to  Dominikk85

Did he say he’d have been as productive, or just that he could have hit more homers?

And Ichiro isn’t most guys. I’m inclined to believe he could have hit the ball harder if he had been willing to accept a much lower BA and other negatives.

RonnieDobbs
9 years ago
Reply to  Dominikk85

I think that Ichiro could have been Yonder Alonso or Ryan Schimpf if he wanted to. He could have struck out like crazy, swung hard and made consistently poor contact – I think any good hitter could. He made the correct decision to maximize his skill-set.

It is no coincidence that guys “figure out launch angles”, when their careers are at a crossroads. If you don’t have the ability to make quality contact consistently, then elevating the ball and praying that it carries out is the easiest thing that a player can do that might not actually end with an out. What else can you “improve” without augmenting your abilities? This strategy can potentially accumulate massive counting stats quickly if it works and you can fake relevancy for a while, which modern analysis appreciates. Long-term, the great hitters are not going to change much. It is the barely relevant players that will need to tailor their game to whatever the metrics of the day value. It is a tough pill to swallow, but weights and equations will change over time.

Kind of weird that the fly-ball revolution also coincides with the juiced-ball era, no?

ceddy
9 years ago
Reply to  RonnieDobbs

I think that it’s more a case that only players who are hitting badly will take the risk of changing their entire swing. Doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be even better if they changed their approach, it’s just they wouldn’t risk it. Could cause more harm than good. Daniel Murphy is an example of a player who was just fine as a contact guy who adjusted his swing/approach to great success.

radivel
9 years ago

Actual title of this article: “An Article About Exit Velocity and Launch Angle, in which Ichiro is mentioned.”

CheeseballMember since 2016
9 years ago

This article invites a NotGraphs follow-up badly depicting Ichiro as Power Hitter, Astronaut, Space Cowboy, Rumanian Nihilist.

mando3b
9 years ago

Personally, I’m very happy with the Ichiro we’ve had for the past several years–a tremendous talent whose approach is unique and works for him. I’ve always wanted to hear Ted Williams comment on Ichiro’s hitting style: Does anybody know if he did so before he died? I know that he once told Tony Gwynn that he could easily be a power hitter if he altered his approach at the plate, so I suspect he would’ve said the same thing about Ichiro. One other aspect of Ichiro’s game that hasn’t been mentioned yet: he is (or at least was) incredibly fast. It seems to me that this is best exploited by making a lot of contact and putting pressure on the defense, rather than by trying to hit for more power but striking out a lot. What do the analytics say about that? In any event, I agree with what a previous post said about the Joey Votto quote: ultimately, individual players have to approach hitting in the way that they are most comfortable with and that best suits their athletic strengths. In any event, Ichiro has been one of the great players of this generation, and of all time; it’s been a pleasure to watch him all of these years.

ItsLudovic
9 years ago

It would be interesting to see what happened to hitters who made swing changes that worked, especially if this resulted in a lot more fly balls.

London Yank
9 years ago

If Ichiro wanted to hit more home runs he’d probably have stopped connecting with the ball while in full stride to first base. He is already running on the majority of his swings and that limits your exit velocity a fair amount.

There really is no data available that can possibly answer the question of whether he could have hit 40 HRs, since he never tried to alter his approach. In any case, the answer is of course he could have. He’s Ichiro!

lesmashMember since 2017
9 years ago

I remember watching Ichiro take BP in Baltimore several years back. He grooved pitch after pitch over the RF wall onto Eutah Street. It was amazing.

So not sold on the 40 HRs in a season thing; but I’d put a few bucks on him in the HR derby if the park catered to lefties.

Jetsy Extrano
9 years ago
Reply to  lesmash

Do they collect Statcast data during batting practice? I wonder if it could tell you anything useful about a hitter, as a measurement of their bat speed under ideal conditions. It can’t tell you their ability to combine power with accuracy, but it would be interesting to see BP peak exit velocity compared to scouting “raw power” grade.

I’m going to bet that skinny little guys don’t get a high raw power grade even if they can generate a lot of batting practice exit velocity.

Llewdor
9 years ago

Keep in mind, of course, that Ichiro’s power swing has traditionally borne no resemblance to his regular swing. When he was trying to hit the ball out he even used a different stance.