Dan Szymborski FanGraphs Chat – 4/12/17

Jimmy Carter: Is Carter Capps a top 10 NL closer by the end of this season?

Dan Szymborski: OH yeah, hello.

Dan Szymborski: Could be, but I don’t want to commit yet given that he’s still doing rehab.

Dan Szymborski: And whether they call his shot put windup under new guidelines, I’m not sure of

Noah: Thoughts on Eric Thames so far? I know your system had him projected for a fairly significant season

Dan Szymborski: If he destroys the NL, Steamer gets the win over ZiPS – STeamer was more optimistic.

Dan Szymborski: (ZiPS had him with an wRC+ of 112, Steamer 126)

Dan Szymborski: Also:

Dan Szymborski: APRIL

Ya Boi Bill Nye: Will Joe Ross be pitching for the Nats this weekend? If not, when would you expect him back?

Dan Szymborski: I’d have to count on the calendar. I don’t think the Nats need a 5th starter again for like 10 days or so.

Dan Szymborski: Which would mean the following weekend.

Failindrome: A man, a plan, a canal – Dan Szymborski Chat

Dan Szymborski: Palindrome confirmed.

Eric: If peak Mariano were somehow pitching today, do you think he would be considered the game’s greatest reliever? Or would he be overshadowed by guys like Chapman who throw 100+ and rack up tons of strikeouts?

Dan Szymborski: I dont’ think it would be clear-cut that either one was better, Mo had some crazy years.

Dan Szymborski: Remember, of course, one of the reasons he’s special is that he maintained his status for so damn long.

RotoLando: Do you have any Greek ancestors named Szymborkis?

Dan Szymborski: Doubtful

Erik: I was offered Kole Calhoun for Robbie Ray in a league where I like my pitching better than my hitting. But I also think Robbie Ray could have a very high ceiling. Would you take the deal?

Dan Szymborski: Unless it’s an extreme mix, I’d keep Ray

Dan Szymborski: As in you have an AWESOME pitching staff and a TERRIBLE offesne.

Dan Szymborski: But even in that case, you may be able to do better

Matt: What if Margot is really Buxton and this is another way of Preller cheating the rules? Mind. Blown.

Humidor: Please rank the end of season roto value of the AZ starting rotation (i.e., among Greinke, Corbin, Walker, Ray, Miller).

Dan Szymborski: Greinke, Ray, Miller, Walker, Corbin?

Kevin: Have you ever considered writing a book? If so what would it be about?

Dan Szymborski: Yes. But dunno.

Dan Szymborski: Which is why I haven’t written one. I don’t want to write a book just to write one

New Yorka: Is Matt Harvey back and as good as ever?

Dan Szymborski: You have to love where he is, but I think 2013 Harvey is still a better pitcher.

Drew: Is Matt Bush pretty much a right handed Aroldis Chapman? Is his fastball/location that eliute?

Dan Szymborski: I’m tno sure I’d match them like that

Dan Szymborski: Bush throws really hard, but he’s not as good as Chapman

Matt: Is petco park more hr neutral now than its reputation

Dan Szymborski: Not quite neutral, but it’s much closer than before

mtsw: JJ Hardy: done, finished or cooked?

Dan Szymborski: APRIL

Evil Knebel: What are the odds Knebel is closing for the Brewers by the MLB trade deadline this year?

Dan Szymborski: Pretty good I think.

Dan Szymborski: If Feliz stays good, he’s traded. If he doesn’t, there’s no reason to have him close.

Dan Szymborski: And unless I’m forgetting someone, which is possible, Knebel has the best velocity of all the on-roster options.

Biden the Dog: Would you take Josh Bell or Ryan Zimmerman offense ROS? Level of confidence?

Dan Szymborski: Bell. Can’t say the level of the cuff.

Mrs. Garrett: Amir Garrett seems awfully comfortable on the mound. How good do you think he’ll be this year?

Dan Szymborski: ZiPS is still suspicious, but I went back and looked at the game tape (well, digital tape) since I totally forgot about his debut. He looked *extremely* poised out there. Like a pitcher.

Dan’s clone’s brothers nephew: Luis Urias hitting for power so far. Chance he has Ian kinsler’s upside?

Dan Szymborski: I don’t want to go nuts over a start and he doesn’t *look* like a guy who will have a lot of power in teh end, but I think he’ll succeed in the majors

Jessie: I know he is striking out a ton but is Byron Buxton basically Kevin Kiermaier? Which is great, but people want him to be so much more? Give the guy a break. He is 23, plays Gold Glove defense and even if he only hits .240 will make a tremendous impact on the bases.

Dan Szymborski: What’s wrong with Kiermaier?

Dan Szymborski: If he eturns out to be Kiermaier, th Twins shouldn’t complain

On the Mend: Does Arismendy Alcantara deserve more of a chance to play regularly?

Dan Szymborski: I think he’s more fitting for a supersub role.

Bookie Metts: Who has the best catchers in the majors, and why is it the Boston Red Sox?

Dan Szymborski: Giants. Becuase Posey

Gary: What about you, Sideburns? You want some of this milk?

Dan Szymborski: OK Billy

John: Is your park factor research for the purpose of predicting park factors at Atlanta’s new park based on dimensions?

Dan Szymborski: Perhaps!

Make yourself confortable: What do you think the odds are of Conforto getting 400 or more at bats this year for the Mets?

Dan Szymborski: 40%

Dan’s clone’s brothers nephew: Do you prefer Mike Trout to Jesus Christ or Matt Kemp

Dan Szymborski: Mike Trout is beyond the likes and dislikes of mortals.

tom: should we be worried about oh and his closer position?

Dan Szymborski: Yes. Because I think the smart move is to be patient and since Matheny doesn’t make the smart move with the bullpen ever, then it would be the opposite.

mtsw: Saw on twitter your post on modeling park factors. Given how deterministic the physics of ball travel is, will we eventually get the point where a detailed model will produce better park factors than game data? Or are there too many variables at play?

Dan Szymborski: I think too many variables.

Dan Szymborski: I was thinking of lots of ways to model things like batter’s eye (physically going to parks and doing eye tests), none of which are remotely plausible to actually do

Dan Szymborski: I think if I ask my boss “Hey, can I have 10K to collect batter’s eye data at MLB ballparks” I would get a frosty reaction.

12 to 6: Most exciting team so far?

Dan Szymborski: Reds because of Garrett and Finnegan. No, they will still be bad for the season (teh Reds)

tom: mark reynolds feels like he has been around forever and has had his share of hot streaks. whats the over/under that this will last for a few months?

Dan Szymborski: I’m surprised he wasn’t doing this his last run in Coors.

Dan Szymborski: He’ll cool though.

Erik: Zach Britton and Brandon Crawford for Corey Seager in a redraft league. Which side do you prefer, and by how much?

Dan Szymborski: The first somehwat. Crawford is really good.

I’m in a box: Is Marcell Ozuna a top 15 NL offensive player this year?

Dan Szymborski: No

call me maybin: Small sample size, but is it time to be worried about Jonathan Villar? 40 percent swinging strike rate, 45 percent pull rate, he’s hitting the ball into the air more, so he can’t take advantage of his speed. Obviously his .167 BABIP should increase dramatically, and obviously he’s always struckout at a fair clip, but his approach at the plate really seems to have taken a step back.

Dan Szymborski: I wouldn’t go nuts, this is a small small sample, even for approach.

Dan Szymborski: People dont’ usually look good when they’re doing poorly

12 to 6: If Otani comes over to an AL team will he hit when he pitches with pinch hitters taking over once he is out of the game? Or will he be DH’d for on pitching days?

Dan Szymborski: Really depends on the team.

Dan: Bruckner cycle: Jochum vs Wand?

Dan Szymborski: Jochum. A couple of the Wands are just a little too coola t the climaxes. Though the Wand has better sound.

Dan Szymborski: The best Bruckner run is Celibidache though.

Shartus: I believe The Mets’ injury woes can be traced back to elaborate handshakes.

RotoLando: When Jesus Aguilar heats up, you’ll all be sorry!

John Jaso Jingle Heimer Schmidt: Do teams ever target players from certain geographic areas? I noticed the Phillies have drafted/signed a lot of guys from the Midwest, the Nationals from Illinois/Indiana, etc. Is this out of practice or merely coincidental?

Dan Szymborski: Some do, some don’t. The Braves have liked guys from the area.

Dan Szymborski: Depends on the organization and it varies.

Dan Szymborski: Tha twould be an itnresting draft look

Rufus T. Firefly: Have you gotten a look at Jose Bautista? Do you believe the meticulous care he takes in training and diet will save him? Or is it more genetics and luck that governs the speed of decline?

Dan Szymborski: Time has worn down the most phenomenal athletes.

Don’t Panik: Are the Giants wasting his good eye talents at the bottom of the lineup?

Dan Szymborski: Who, Crawford? He’s been hitting in the middle of the order

Dan Szymborski: Oh, Panik

Dan Szymborski: Thought this was a follow up

Dan Szymborski: Bochy is not very lineup imaginative

Dan Szymborski: So Gorkys has hit leadoff because reasons

Bookie Metts: Which player currently in the minor leagues will have the biggest MLB impact this season?

Dan Szymborski: Ross!

Rufus T. Firefly: Have you played or considered playing in a high stakes fantasy league? If so, do tell.

Dan Szymborski: I don’t do high stakes fantasy.

Mike P: Now we can ask, who is the new Texas closer???

Dan Szymborski: Have they officially taken the job away from Dyson? I knew there were rumblings, but perhaps I missed something this morning

Dan Szymborski: Bush would be next in line I imagine. And I woudln’t be surprsied for Dyson to get teh closer axe, they’ve thrown in the towel very quickly on closers in recent years (Tolleson, Feliz)

Blue Morpho: I’m here for the avalanche of “it’s April” answers from Dan.

Don Brucedon: It’s 2:00, WHERE THE HELL IS MY CORNBREAD, DAN!

Dan Szymborski: NEVER PROMISED CORNBREAD

Dan Szymborski: Oh, I guess that crawford question couldn’t be a follow up since it was asked like at 1:57 before I even started.

Dan Szymborski: I mean the panik question.

Erik: I know baseball well but am new to fantasy. What beginner’s mistakes did I problem make? Are they correctable?

Dan Szymborski: You probably chose all the wrong players and you’re doomed forever and the winner in your league gets to write your epitath someday

Hot Dog Sandwich: If Delaware was to compete in the WBC, it would have Paul Goldschmidt, Brett Oberholtzer, Joey Wendle, and maybe a couple retirees like Kevin Mench and Ian Snell. How would they do?

Dan Szymborski: Depth would be an issue

Dan Szymborski: Remember, *Oberholtzer* is the second player you named.

Dan Szymborski: But better than Luxembourg or something!

RotoLando: Bruce Rondon has three first names. Who will he assassinate?

Dan Szymborski: Only applies when there’s a space.

Dan Szymborski: Bruce Ron Don is a much bigger danger.

Cheap Phillies: Assuming Benoit is traded, what do you think the odds are Edubray Ramos is named closer?

Dan Szymborski: I suspect int he short-term, NEris gets next dibs

Hot Dog Sandwich: Did the guy accidentally using your email address order anymore good stuff?

Dan Szymborski: No, I haven’t heard from him. I’m hoping he got the message.

Jay: Wise man say forgiveness is divine but never pay full price for late pizza…or a late starting Dan Szymborski chat.

Dan Szymborski: Wait you guys are PAYING for this chat? I need to talk to daves

Whitney: It’s been a week, but if Lindor’s power spike is real, is he the second best player in the game?

Dan Szymborski: I have a Lindor piece int eh hopper.

Hannah Hochevar: Jonathan Schoop has been feeling like Jonathan Nope so far. Can you give me some Jonathan Hope?

Dan Szymborski: APRIL

Dan Szymborski: AND I WON”T PARTICIPATE IN RHYMING

ptuj is for lovers: Is April the cruelest month?

Dan Szymborski: For me it is all the damn sneezing. This is the month I’m always doped up on Benadryl.

Todd Dunwoody: In your opinion, who has the highest and lowest WRC+ in the Marlins outfield this year?

Dan Szymborski: Ozuna has the highest wRC+ in the Marlins outfield in 2017 so far, Ichiro the worst.

BerkeleyGiant: Do you see any decent solutions to the Giants outfield woes?

Dan Szymborski: They serve beer still, don’t they?

RotoLando: How does your cat react to a Marlins home run?

Dan Szymborski: Indifference.

PL: Pastrami on pizza y/n

Dan Szymborski: I love pastrami, but no

Sterling Mallory Chris Archer: How well could you handle your job/life if it was covered as professional atheletes are covered? Also, same question but for Cistulli?

Dan Szymborski: I think I’d be fine. Writers do tend to get a lot of public criticism you know.

Dan Szymborski: As for Carson, with more scrutiny, Interpol would catch him and send him to the Hague to face the music.

Keith Hernandez: Are you as high on Brandon Finnegan as Eno?

Dan Szymborski: Just how high is he? I’m pretty high, but if Eno thinks Finnegan will be Koufax, I don’t want one of you jokers announce that I think Finnegan will be the best pitcher in MLB history.

Christian: Which is worse for the Royals, Hosmer finally stops punishing the infield grass and has his monster season pricing himself out of KC. Or Hosmer continues to punish the infield grass pricing himself down just enough for the Royals to over pay for him?

Dan Szymborski: Possibly the latter.

Dan Szymborski: Hosmer being good enough to fool a stupid team into giving him $120 million is the best thing for KC.

Maxamuz: Ever think about doing on AMA over on Reddit? I think it would be well received.

Dan Szymborski: I actually talked about doing one on /r/baseball but we never really got to it.

Dan Szymborski: It may not be as interesting for readers over another writer, simply because I’m already talkative and answer questions and stuff.

Rick: So far it seems like pitchers are pitching around Schwarber even though Kris Bryant and Rizzo are behind him. Is a .260/.390/.500 slash line too optimistic?

Dan Szymborski: That’s a litlte too rich for me and I love me some super nintendo

Hot Dog Sandwich: What is the first word of that great Simon & Garfunkel song “______ Come She Will”?

Dan Szymborski: MAY

Jonathan: What would ZiPS think of Otani if he were in the states for 2017?

Dan Szymborski: A lot 🙂

grimoren189: Who are you buying more so far? Mitch Haniger or Steven Souza Jr? Somewhat similar profiles no?

Dan Szymborski: I’ll be Haniger over the March King.

Hot Dog Sandwich: If the MLB Network got the rights to make True Detective Season 3, which two MLB players would you want to play the mismatched leads?

Dan Szymborski: Papelbon and Breslow

Tim: You see this video by Jon Bois? He basically concludes that if Barry Bonds never swung the bat in his 2004 season (but was still pitched the same) he would have posted a .608 OBP.

Dan Szymborski: I hadn’t!

Hot Dog Sandwich: Is a gyro a sandwich?

Dan Szymborski: No

hscer: supposed to be 22 Apr for Ross

David: The Padres, through nine games, have zero hits from a catcher this season. I have no question, just that this seems remarkable.

nehzqk: Can we start talking about the Rockies? They’re pitching has been hot so far and while they haven’t been hitting well, they are still the Rockies and the bats should pick up. How do you feel about the Rockies thus far?

Dan Szymborski: I talked them up as a sleeper all spring! ZiPS had them at 82 wins for final projection even after injuries.

Dan Szymborski: I don’t think the front office is gone and they’ve blown some opportunities, but they’ve brute forced their way into an OK team

Natitude Adjuster: Have you seen anyone who’s Zips(R) has changed markedly from the original projection based on production, not injury?

Dan Szymborski: I would hope not

Moltar: How about a series of picture books, The Analogue Life Of The Digital Dandy?

Dan Szymborski: Mostly me drinking, hanging out with cats, and playing video games

Sam: My hosmer for bird and Paxton? Need pitching help

Dan Szymborski: I’d do the trade even without Paxton, so with…

Sam: Is Greg holland a sell high? What range of pitcher would you try to get for him

Dan Szymborski: If you can actually sell high, yes. Depends on offers.

Natitude Adjuster: Is Jose LeClerq (whoever that is!) next in line to be Tex closer if Bush is injured and Jeffress and Dyson keep pitching terribly?

Dan Szymborski: He’s in the queue somewhere, but I think they’ll go with the “next in line” generally there. He’ll eventually get a chance

Dan Szymborski: Would probably want to see if he keeps the walks down.

Sam: Will Tim Anderson ever draw a walk? Hasn’t drawn one in spring training nor the regular season

Dan Szymborski: Even Mark Quinn drew one the year he tried not to

Shartus: Most people would gnaw off their own foot to get out of a bear trap. That’s understandable. What is your threshold of things you’d gnaw your own foot off to get out of?

Dan Szymborski: I’d at least have to have access to paper towels

Dan Szymborski: But here’s the thing, your foot doesn’t get caught in most bad situations.

Dan Szymborski: Like you shouldn’t gnaw your foot to get out of a bad lunch date or something. YOU’RE NOT SHACKLED AT APPLEBEE’S USUALLY

Dan Szymborski: And the foot can aid in the getaway

Keith Hernandez: Who’s closing games first? Bush or Neris?

Dan Szymborski: Bush I think

Dan’s clone’s brothers nephew: Please rank these

Dan Szymborski: , , , and ,

Dan’s clone’s brothers nephew: why can I not press enter without sending the question

Tip Tipson : Bush is having his A/C joint examined and jefferies is pitching poorly –> Who we replacing Dyson with?

Dan Szymborski: Bush may just need a new compressor, they can do that in a day.

Dan Szymborski: Though given his age, they might be able to get something with a better SEER

Dan’s clone’s brothers nephew: Rank these: Grilled shrimp, cooked scallops, fried calamari, grilled octopus

Dan Szymborski: Octopus, Chrimp, Calamari………………………………………………………………………Scallops

Dan Szymborski: I got violently ill after eating scallops once and I’ve been unable to psychologically eat them since.

grimoren189: Setting the over/under of APRIL!’s in this chat at 6. Taking the over.

Dan’s clone’s brothers nephew: Which is worse and more overrated: Avocados or onions?

Dan Szymborski: Onions are awesome. Avocados are overrated.

Dan Szymborski: Goddamn, I’m answer a lot of your Qs.

Dan Szymborski: Sorry guys

Moltar: Did you watch Brockmire? I was pleasantly surprised. Hank Azaria knows his baseball.

Dan Szymborski: I’ve missed it so far!

PL: Which things can we not dismiss as SSS?

Dan Szymborski: A proper eating apple.

Jason W.: Do you like Buxton’s chances of eclipsing Adam Dunn’s 2012 season of .204 BA and league leading 222 Ks?

Dan Szymborski: He’ll be better.

v2micca: Have you tried the RTTS in MLB the Show 17. Its kind of annoying that no matter how well you pitch, the team will try to move you to the bullpen.

Dan Szymborski: Don’t have it yet!

O’s Fan: Let’s say the Orioles could work out an extension with Manny Machado, should they do that? That is, is his value greatest to the franchise because of his return in prospects considering the Orioles’ window might be closing?

Dan Szymborski: They could, but he may in fact be more valuable in trade.

Erik: I’ve never thought of the differences in the batter’s eyes having that much of an effect on park factors. How strong do you think the effect would be compared to things like elevation/wind direction/dimensions? Close to as large as those factors, or closer to 10% as important as those factors?

Dan Szymborski: Pretty strong actually. There have been some changes in the past that really changed it

Elf: Dylan Bundy looks like a top-30ish pitcher. Thoughts so far?

Dan Szymborski: He’s looked good so far, but not a guy who is ready to go 8

Matt: Who has the better year: Harper or Murphy?

Dan Szymborski: Harper

Caesar Salad: So if someone offers you Kiermaier for Buxton, you jump on that?

Dan Szymborski: Depends on the organization

mtsw: Shohei Otani can’t be offered more than a tiny fraction of his value this offseason. Goes to reason there will be heavy incentives to try to find a way to pay him under the table in a way that bends but does not break the rules. If, say, the Padres signed him, would everyone just assume there was some shady AJ Preller business going on?

Dan Szymborski: Probably. He’s gotten a rep

LegalEagle: First notable bat to get traded?

Dan Szymborski: a Louisville Slugger

Billy Beane: Jharel Cotton’s pitch is a change up or a screwball?

Dan Szymborski: Circle change

Nate: Did you read Sam Miller and Ben Lindbergh’s book? If so, what were your thoughts?

Dan Szymborski: I have, it was a lot of fun

LegalEagle: Should people be panicking about Miggy?

Dan Szymborski: APRIL

Gorp: Have you ever been referred to as Dantana?

Dan Szymborski: No.

Los: Would you take a 1% chance of a punch to the face for a $1 airline ticket?

Dan Szymborski: Yes

Miggy: gosh i’m starting off chilly this year….think i’ll get red hot pretty soon?

Dan Szymborski: APRIL

Gorp: How do you pronounce the word coupon? Koo-pon, or Kyew-pon?

Dan Szymborski: Cue-pon

Huzzah?: Are you a Renaissance Faire kind of guy?

Dan Szymborski: Not dressing up, but I like giant turkey legs

PD: What’s Rookie Davis’s name next year?

Dan Szymborski: Rookie Davis II: Electric Boogaloo

Ruffx2Tweet&Cameron: Can you outdrink Eno?

Dan Szymborski: 10 years ago, yes, but my stomach won’t put up with more than about 10 drinks or so these days

Dan Szymborski: And ain’t nobody going to outdrink Chris Dial

CarrotJuice: Would you read a Metamorphosis adaption where Gregor turns into Carson Cistulli instead?

Dan Szymborski: GAME OF THRONES SPOILER: The Gregor that’s turned into Cistulli is Clegane.

Hot Dog Sandwich: What kind of showers bring May flowers?

Dan Szymborski: Liquid precipitation from low-pressure storm systems.

Russ Westbrook: what’s been more accurate historically: zips or steamer

Dan Szymborski: Depends on the measure.

Dan Szymborski: Steamer was better for individuals in 2016 though, ZiPS had a good year with teams though.

Hot Dog Sandwich: What was the first name of Aubrey Plaza’s character on Parks and Recreation?

Dan Szymborski: her first name was Ludgate until she married Andy.

CarrotJuice: Is that hscer the same hscer who curates the MLB Sporcle page? If so, keep up the great work!

Ken Tremendous: What are your least favorite glitches in MLB The Show?

Dan Szymborski: Only on PS3/PS4!

Ben: Any reason to worry about Bregman yet?

Dan Szymborski: APRIL

Hot Dog Sandwich: What’s the worst baseball movie you have seen?

Dan Szymborski: Is that even a question? Ed.

Hot Dog Sandwich: “Shackled at Applebee’s” might be a good name for a book about the minor league life

Kevin: At what age do you think Mike Trout will begin to show a decline from aging

Dan Szymborski: 65

Moses: you take the Lord’s name in vain publicly on Easter week? You’d best invest in a lightning arrestor.

PD: Which head do you prefer? Motor, Radio, or Portis?

Dan Szymborski: Radio

Dan: Rank these Ruskies: Borodin, Shostakovich, Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev, Rachmaninoff

Dan Szymborski: Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff, Borodin

Gyro Sandwich: you monster

Lukas: Is Manny Margot the real deal? What is his ceiling?

Dan Szymborski: I think he is and his ceiling is very high. He has real start potential

GERB: Yesterday the Whitesox intentionally walked a 190lb shortstop so that they could face the number 3 hitter instead. So there’s that

Not Hot Dog Sandwich: I would have went with Pawnie Davis

mtsw: Should Billy Hamilton go by “Bill” to avoid confusion down the line with the Hall of Fame dead-ball era guy also named “Billy Hamilton?” They’re likely to be on a bunch of stolen base leaderboards together

Dan Szymborski: “OH MY GOD THAT DUDE IS 140 YEARS OLD. No, wait, it’s the other Billy hamilton.”

Dan Szymborski: I think he should have an homage nickname, like be Running Billy instead of Sliding.

mtsw: Did you ever make progress on your version of SaberSim-like game-by-game projections? Or have you shelved that project?

Dan Szymborski: Been backburnered for the nonce

Ruffx2Tweet&Cameron: Of all the female names of a calendar, which is your favorite? January,April,May or June?

Dan Szymborski: October. I’m sure someone’s named October

Not Hot Dog Sandwich: But did you really sit and watch Ed? Or just the trailer where Joey from Friends says “bad monkey”?

Dan Szymborski: No, I was curious and watched Ed.

Dan Szymborski: On that note, we’re past 3 and I have an article to finish.

Dan Szymborski: Thanks for coming everybody!

Dan Szymborski: As a reminder, you can find my work at ESPN.com, chats and projections at FanGraphs, and DSzymborski on Twitter.

Dan Szymborski: Also, if I didn’t get to your question (there were a billion or so today), the ansewr is April.

Dan Szymborski: Hopefully nobody asked what their favorite ninja turtle was.