“Does Bill James Even Like to Watch Baseball?”

Projecting players is a tough business. Because of the natural tendency to ignore injury risk and reversion to the mean, our instincts lead us to over project. We have seen this with the fans who are about half a win high (and a full win high projecting players on their favorite time) and who are generous with projected playing time.

So it is easy to look at projections and think they look low, and so we should give people a pass when they say so. But when they say so and in the process disparage the projector, I think it’s fair game to call them out. Here is a video of Bob Ryan and Joe Sullivan discussing Bill James’ projections for some Boston Red Sox players (h/t Repoz). Ryan and Sullivan were aghast that Bill James would project Jon Lester for just 14 wins in 2011, joking that their colleague Dan Shaughnessy would say “Bill James doesn’t even like to watch baseball!” and that if James actually watched Lester pitch he might think differently. Ryan claimed that Lester is a 19-game winner for the foreseeable future.

Lester is a great pitcher and won 19 games last year, but to win 19 or more games everything has to break just right. The pitcher has to pitch lots of innings, do so at a relatively high level (or be astronomically lucky), get good run support, and then have a bullpen hold the lead.

Can we expect that all out of Lester in 2011? First, let’s look at projecting innings pitched. He has pitched just over 200 innings in each of the past three years, which gives us a quick jumping-off point. I looked at all pitchers who averaged between 190 and 210 for three straight years (i.e., had a total of between 570 and 630 IPs during three consecutive years) in the 2000s and then saw how many innings they had in the next year. I came up with 136 pitchers, and they averaged 170 IPs in the next year — a good 30-ish innings fewer than they had averaged over the previous three years. That is aging and reversion to the mean. Lester is younger than this group on average so maybe you can expect him to have a few more than 170 IPs, but that number might be a safe guess for how many innings he will throw.

But maybe you are supremely confident in Lester’s talent and durability. Say you are sure he will have over 200 IPs and an ERA under four. How many games should we expect him to win? I found 188 pitchers who meet these criteria in a season since 2001. How many wins did they average in those seasons? Fifteen. Even pitchers who pitch well over a full season do not necessarily get near 19 wins (the lowest total was Brandon Webb’s 2004 season with just seven wins in spite of his 208 innings at a 3.59 ERA).

Sure, the Red Sox are an excellent team and will give Lester way more support than the 2004 Arizona Diamondbacks did Webb. But wins are fickle: Matt Garza won only eight games for the solid 2009 Tampa Bay Rays when he pitched 203 innings with a 3.95 ERA and last year Tommy Hanson won just ten games on a good Atlanta Braves team while pitching 202 innings with a 3.33 ERA.

The point is you cannot assume that Lester is going to have another 200-inning season, and even if he does, you cannot pencil him in for 19 wins (look at his 2009 season: 203 innings, a 3.41 ERA, and just 15 wins). That is why Bill James, who I am sure loves to watch baseball, projects 14 wins for Lester.





Dave Allen's other baseball work can be found at Baseball Analysts.

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Al Swedgin
13 years ago

Interesting post. So why does Bill James project Chris Carpenter to win 18 games?

Erik
13 years ago
Reply to  Al Swedgin

More IP, more GS, significantly lower ERA.

The Duder
13 years ago
Reply to  Dave Allen

“But maybe you are supremely confident in Lester’s talent and durabilit. Say you are sure he will have over 200 IPs and an ERA under four. How many games should we expect him to win? I found 188 pitchers who meet these criteria in a season since 2001. How many wins did they average in those seasons? 15. Even pitchers who pitch well over a full season do not necessarily get near 19 wins (the lowest total was Brandon Webb‘s 2004 season with just seven wins in spite of his 208 innings at a 3.59 ERA).”

How many of those pitchers had the best offense in the league and a plus defense behind them, plus had their sub-4 ERA in a hitter’s park? That paragraph was extremely misleading… and borderline dishonest as a journalist.

14 wins seems solidly 2 wins off. There’s no way he’s as likely to end up with 10 wins as he is with 18 wins.

Erik
13 years ago
Reply to  Dave Allen

“There’s no way he’s as likely to end up with 10 wins as he is with 18 wins.”

That’s not what the projection is saying. It may be saying that p(>14) = p(<14), but it's definitely not saying p(18) = p(10). Take it to its logical extreme: do you think that by projecting 14 wins, BJ is saying that Lester is just as likely to win 0 games as he is to win 28? I doubt it, because winning 0 (preseason injury) is much more likely than 28.

The Duder
13 years ago
Reply to  Dave Allen

Hi guys, you are missing the point here – I will say it differently.

This paragraph is wrong. Either you completely missed the gaping hole in your logic, or presented your “information” knowingly, hence the bit about “misleading and journalistically dishonest”. I was giving you the intellectual benefit of the doubt, which was the wrong thing to do, it seems.

“But maybe you are supremely confident in Lester’s talent and durabilit. Say you are sure he will have over 200 IPs and an ERA under four. How many games should we expect him to win? I found 188 pitchers who meet these criteria in a season since 2001. How many wins did they average in those seasons? 15. Even pitchers who pitch well over a full season do not necessarily get near 19 wins (the lowest total was Brandon Webb‘s 2004 season with just seven wins in spite of his 208 innings at a 3.59 ERA).”

If this is true, then 14 wins is CLEARLY an incorrect forecast (if you assume 200IP and a sub 4 ERA, as you state), as the 2011 red sox team is far, far superior to LEAGUE AVERAGE, which is basically the sample you have pointed at.

Yes?

I’m not saying I disagree with the heart of your article, but like so many pieces on FG, they idea is a good one, but they are tragically ill explained and argued for, and stats are butchered in an attempt to make a point. If this were english class (or maybe stats class) the teacher would have a red X through half of your paragraphs.

The thesis is fine, but some of the evidence used to back up your point was shoddy.

Adam
13 years ago
Reply to  Dave Allen

The Duder,

Your responses miss the point. Your assumption is that because Boston has a better than average offense, Lester is highly likely to get better than average run support. That is not necessarily the case as run support for different pitchers on the same team often varies drastically from year to year. Furthermore, the article did cite two examples of good pitchers from good teams getting very low win totals. One was Tommy Hanson from last year, and he shows the luck of run support. While the Braves score the sixth most runs in the NL last year, Hanson’s run support was horrible; he had a RS/9 IP (run support per nine innings while he was pitching) of 3.4 runs last year. Hence, he was 10-11, with a 3.33 ERA and 202.2 IP. Teammate Derek Lowe on the other hand, was much worse, with an ERA of 4.00 and 193.2 IP. Yet, Lowe finished 16-12. Why? He had a RS/9 IP of 4.5, and 8 wins in non-quality starts.

Joe
13 years ago
Reply to  Dave Allen

I HEAR when you CAPITALIZE things it makes your argument STRONGER and more MEANINGFUL….but you forgot the explanation points!!!!!

14 wins is not an absurd forecast, especially when the win stat is not all that meaningful to begin with. Would folks have projected Beckett at 6 wins last year or 12 wins in ’08 (coming off of his 20win, 3.27 ERA 2007 season)?

An injury which causes him to miss a few starts, a blown lead or two by the bullpen and a tough loss or two where he doesn’t get run support and it’s difficult to get to 18-20 wins. With a full season of 33-34 starts, a pitcher is likely going to get 6-10 no decisions. That leaves somewhere around 23-28 decisions (thus winning 19 is not easy). If a pitcher misses a couple of starts then the 15 win range is a good outcome.

walt526
13 years ago
Reply to  Dave Allen

“That’s not what the projection is saying. It may be saying that p(>14) = p(<14), but it's definitely not saying p(18) = p(10)."

Just to expound on these two point a little further.

First, as Erik states, it only MAY be possible that P(14). It depends upon what the methodology James (or rather, the system now bearing his name) uses. A median is obviously a common measure of central tendency, but it’s hardly the only one.

Second, some distributions are symmetric, including the normal– but many are not. In fact, in my experience most non-Monte Carlo models based on count data do not feature symmetry.

blackout
13 years ago
Reply to  Dave Allen

“journalist.”

Someone’s a little confused about what a journalist is.

blackout
13 years ago
Reply to  Dave Allen

“14 wins is not an absurd forecast, especially when the win stat is not all that meaningful to begin with.”

Also not absurd because 14 wins is a lot. lol

grady
13 years ago
Reply to  Al Swedgin

AL East vs. NL central’s probably got at least something to do with it too.

Guy
13 years ago
Reply to  grady

As well as the bullpens? I’m not really sure which bullpen is projected stronger but I do know that Papelbon is liable to blow a few saves.