Edgar Martinez Talks Hitting
To say Edgar Martinez knows hitting would be to state the obvious. The Seattle Mariners legend slashed .312/.418/.515 between 1987 and 2004, and he won a pair of batting titles along the way. He ranks 21st all-time in OBP and is 44th all-time in adjusted OPS.
Martinez is now entrusted with getting the most out of Mariners hitters. The should-be Hall-of-Famer took over as the team’s hitting coach in late June after beginning the season as a roving instructor. It’s a challenging job. Seattle ranks 11th in the American League in runs scored, and several players are falling short of expectations.
Martinez talked about the art of hitting — and how he evolved during his career — earlier this summer.
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Martinez on being direct to the ball: “We sometimes make (hitting) complicated, but the simpler it is – the simpler the mechanics – the better your chance are of hitting a fastball. Sometimes we think too much about the mechanics. If we go to the plate thinking about our legs or our hands, we’re not focusing on what we need to focus on, which is hitting the pitch. For that reason, we end up missing our pitch.
“How you position your hands is important. If you have them someplace other than where they are when you fire to hit a baseball, that’s not simple. I wanted to have my hands very close to where I was firing to hit a fastball. There are players who hold them low and have to bring them up, or they’ll hold them up and have to bring them down. Others have them in front and need to move them back. I think it should be simple. You should have them where you’re starting from your firing position.
“For some players, it’s not easy to make a change, because they’ve done the same thing for so long. For instance, if a player has his hands in front and always has to move them back, it’s not easy for him to start back and just strike to the ball. Breaking a habit is difficult and it takes time It’s hard to make an adjustment like that – a bigger adjustment – in the middle of the season.”
On not opening up too soon: “We also get into habits in the bottom half, especially with our hips. That’s another habit that can be hard to change. Opening up too soon can be from always thinking about pulling the ball – you want to open up the hips first, to pull the ball. For a player who’s always been a pull hitter, it’s a tough habit to break if you want to help him start going the other way. Another reason for opening up too soon is being anxious. You’re trying to make it happen instead of waiting for the pitch.
“The way you think affects the way you react. If your mind is thinking, ‘I have to look inside,’ your hips are going to open up. It is very mental. Nelson Cruz starts opened up, but he comes closed and waits on the ball very long. He’s not worried about trying to pull the ball, so he can just go with the pitch.
“When you’re in a slump – you’re not hitting the ball very well – it’s almost like your mind gets a little foggy. When you’re hitting very well, it’s like you know what he’s going to throw. You’re anticipating very well and aware of everything. That makes you more confident, and confidence makes you a better hitter.”
On confidence and video: “The only thing I like my hitters to watch (on video) is when they’re doing well. I don’t like them to dwell too much when they’re doing something wrong. It’s almost like they’re experiencing it again, and I want them to be positive. I want them to see, ‘This is what you’re doing when you’re doing well; just go ahead and do that.’
“Most of the time, hitters know when they’re doing something wrong. They know they’re opening up their hips or that their hands aren’t ready before the swing. They know when their swing is too long. I don’t need to show them.
“When I’m trying to explain something – staying inside the ball, or how he uses his legs – sometimes I’ll show players film of someone like Miguel Cabrera. Watching certain hitters is a good way to learn about the swing. I did that when I played. In my early years, I worked a lot with my cousin, Carmelo Martinez. From there, I learned from watching hitters like George Brett, Kirby Puckett, Don Mattingly,Tony Gwynn. I would make sure to watch all of their at bats when I played against them.”
On talking hitting with his teammates: “I talked hitting with my teammates a lot. I talked to Bret Boone, Stan Javier, Jay Buhner, Alex Rodriguez. Alex was able to make adjustments. He actually made big changes to his swing. After his rookie season, he came back from the offseason and made changes. I don’t know if he learned from me, but he started using a high kick when he came to spring training. He also simplified his hand position – his hands were just ready to hit – and he hit through the ball. He always knew his swing very well.”
On adjustments he made as a hitter: “I was a player who was able to change a stance and make an adjustment. In Double-A and Triple-A, I hit with my hands in front. When I came to the big leagues, I couldn’t have my hands there, because they were pitching under my arms. They were pitching me inside, so I couldn’t pull the ball. I had to fight everything to right field. I needed to find another hand position that would make it easier for me to pull the ball.
“The last month in Triple-A, I started using a high kick. That gave me more bat speed. With the combination of having my hands in a better position, and the high kick, I was able to pull the ball. I was also able to wait on the ball more and use the whole field.
“I didn’t keep my high kick forever. I had to make adjustments later. When I got older, my hands were still in a ready position but my high kick got smaller. I was just tap-toe. With the high kick, I felt I wasn’t ready to hit the ball like I had been before.”
On timing, and notable pitchers he faced: “I had problems with Pedro Martinez. I couldn’t see the ball. His release – his chest was so in front that I wouldn’t see the ball coming out of his hand until late. Of course, he also had four good pitches that he could command and throw any time in the count.
“At the beginning, I faced Nolan Ryan and couldn’t hit him. I struck out 10 times in (19) at bats. I think maybe I would have hit him better later on, when I got shorter with my swing. Early on, I tried too hard and my swing got a little long. I tried to hit the ball too hard instead of just trying to make solid contact.
“I did pretty well against Mariano Rivera. He threw the cutter middle away, and I didn’t try to do too much. I just tried to make solid contact where the ball was pitched. I got some good hits off of him, and I got some soft ones too. But I knew what he threw – I always wanted to know what a pitcher’s out-pitch was – and I could time him. I used to hit with movement and timing.”
David Laurila grew up in Michigan's Upper Peninsula and now writes about baseball from his home in Cambridge, Mass. He authored the Prospectus Q&A series at Baseball Prospectus from December 2006-May 2011 before being claimed off waivers by FanGraphs. He can be followed on Twitter @DavidLaurilaQA.
One of the best pure hitters I’ve ever seen.
Who’s a better hitter: Edgar or god?
TRICK QUESTION, EDGAR IS GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Personally, I’d rather have Jim Presley any day.
Unfortunately, so did the idiots who ran the Mariners in the late 1980s. Which prevented Edgar from reaching the majors two or three years sooner, which is part of the reason why he’s not in the Hall of Fame yet.
Seriously? That would be a Jack Z move for sure!!! I could see him trading one of the best hitters of all time, for a 8 year sub-250 hitter. Any wonder that the team has taken off since Jack Z left and Edgar became the hitting coach.
This is awesome. Hopefully I can apply this to my softball game.
If nothing else, take his suggestion to watch film of Miguel Cabrera. That should help you whether it’s pro ball, softball, probably even whiffleball.
Shame Edgar isn’t in the Hall of Fame yet. He’s the embodiment of what you want from a player in terms of skill, performance, work ethic, respect for the game and its history, attitude, and how he carries himself off the field.
IMO part of the problem is entirely owing to Mariners’ lunkheadedness. They had a guy at 3b who could field some and hit dingers but was truly horrible at getting on base, and for HIM they kept Edgar playing up in Canada for at least 2 years beyond when he should have arrived in MLB.
The ‘story’ at the time was that the stats out of the Mariners’ AAA affiliate in Calgary Alberta Canada were double inflated: PCL plus being something like Mile High Lite (Calgary being located in foothills east of the Rocky Mtns). But that argument just made and still makes the Mariners’ organization using it look the more moronic, since Edgar had put up his massive OBP stat EVERYWHERE, not just in Calgary, and that even applying some unreasonably large discount factor to it would still have left him 50-60 or more % higher than Jim “Outmaker” Presley (I don’t actually blame Presley for ‘taking’ the spot that SO OBVIOUSLY should have been filled by Edgar; I DO blame the Mariners’ organization generally and the grossly over-rated Dick Williams in particular.).
Thing is, Calgary is just a bit more than half as high as Coors (3400′ vs 5180′) and summer temps are rarely anything close to (say) Nevada or Arizona (or some of the parks in the Cal League) so while it was one of the more hitter-friendly parks in a hitter-friendly PCL, it wasn’t as extreme as many believe(d).
Edgar was really a great talent and mind. Deserves to be in the Hall-of-Fame.
Great work as always David.
Get this man to the Hall.
Great interview.
You can tell how easy hitting came for him. Extraordinary talent.
And yet he had to work hard at it, and even more so in his later years.
Edgar is special.
He had such a great swing. The Mariners are going to benefit from him working with their hitters.
How the man who has the Designated Hitter Award actually named after him, isn’t in the Hall of Fame yet, is beyond me.
Also, for the Mariners: Edgar started on 6/20/15.
2015 M’s 1st half wRC+ was 89, 20th in baseball, 14th in the AL.
2nd half wRC+ is currently 119, 2nd in MLB / AL.
Great article. I’d love to read more like this from other players. There’s got to be a lot of insight and knowledge out there to be shared.
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lol
Other than Barry Bonds, I think it is fair to say Edgar was the hardest out since my birth in the mid 60s. Certainly the best I ever saw until Bonds injected his way to the top of the list. He (Martinez) should be in the hall of fame! When he played 3rd early in his career he was an average to slightly better than average defensive 3rd baseman. He was moved off 3rd to DH because he kept getting injured and they wanted his bat in the lineup full time. Plus, seattle had no problem finding good defensive thridbasemen to fill in. I think had Martinez and/or the Mariners knew how DHing would affect his future votes for the Hall Of Fame they would have had him play the field everyday. He would have had a career similiar to Ken griffy JR. In other words, usually great whe he played but missing many large chunks of time do to injury. Instead they found other guys to field at 3rd and Martinez would lead (or nearly lead) the league in plate appearences instead.
Edgar would’ve kept playing 3B if not for an injury (torn hamstring_ he sustained on the turf during an exhibition game in Vancouver before the 1993 season. While he would never be mistaken for a great defensive third baseman, he became a fulltime DH because of injury (and concerns about future injury) not because he was a defensive liability.
There was much written about Edgar’s qualifications for the Hall at the time he went on the ballot, for example at Hardball Times.
Then again, the equally dimwitted Red Sox front office of the day felt that Wade Boggs couldn’t handle third base (he made his big league debut at first), but through almost obsessive work Boggs became one of the best glovemen of his era.
I could just as easily envision a healthy Edgar doing the same. Which would have put him into no-brainer HOF status, like Boggs.
All true. I remember when they moved him to the DH spot permanently. It was the same thing as the situations with Harold Baines and Paul Molitor–they had to do something to keep his bat in the lineup. Only Edgar was better than either of them.
He was adequate as a defender, but they didn’t want to risk more injuries. The Mariners could find another third baseman a lot easier than they could find another hitter like Edgar Martinez.
Kind of bothers me a little that Frank Thomas sailed in on the first ballot, and he was a DH most of his career because he was a total butcher at first, but Martinez is still on the outside looking in. The Big Hurt deserves to be there, but so does Edgar.
Edgar had an extremely advanced idea of hitting. He always hit for high average, looking to make contact first. He hit ringing line drives to all fields, working with the location rather than trying to impose a pull approach when the pitch wouldn’t reward it. Early in his career he hit over 50 doubles twice, and 46 another time; in fact, Edgar’s signature kind of hit for his career would be a double off the wall the other way (to RF). Yet despite making consistent contact with authority, his strike zone judgment was the best of his time (and I know who else was playing then in saying that). He drew an enormous number of walks, consistently having an ISB over .100. He was an on base machine. Then later in his career when the team needed him to drive in more runners, he intentionally shifted to hitting more HRs without losing anything in batting average, giving up some doubles for some taters and a few more outs.
Edgar was also about the humblest star I’ve ever seen, and genuinely liked by virtually all his team mates; a great competitor but a real fine man. My favorite quote from Edgar, in a time when guys were going crazy with chemicals for more money and fame came when his contract was up in his next to the last season, when he was still a real force at the plate. With Gar a free agent, a reporter asked him what he’d do if the Mariners didn’t make him an offer. “Oh, I’ll probably just retire,” was his answer. Great negotiating leverage, right?: Edgar didn’t care. He didn’t want to play anywhere else, and wasn’t going to try and dick the team out of a few million more. There aren’t enough people like him in professional sports. He is definitely my favorite Mariner player ever, and I’m glad the team is fortunate to have him back in an impactful capacity.
Baseball should do the right thing and get Gar in the Hall, but I don’t really care if they do. His stature as a player is in the books for anybody who cares to know, and Edgar has never been about fame.
My favorite picture of Edgar just walking to work like anybody else. That’s 1993 or so, at the height of Grunge, but I can’t but help hearing “Staying Alive” in my head….