History, Peaks, and Clayton Kershaw

In the opening minutes of his great documentary Baseball, Ken Burns characterizes the sport in terms that are both pleasing on their own and also relevant to yesterday’s post regarding Mike Trout‘s peak, and now today’s on Clayton Kershaw‘s:

“It is a haunted game, in which every player is measured against the ghosts of all who have gone before. Most of all, it is about time, and timelessness.”

It’s a much more succinct and effective way of making the point I attempted to make yesterday, in that today’s players don’t yet have the luxury of having a legacy, in turn making it tough to contextualize their potential place in history while that legacy is still being built. Looking at what today’s players accomplished in their primes, relative to the primes of the ghosts (both figurative and literal) who have gone before can help us do that.

Trout’s place in history has been well documented and updated since the completion of his 10-win rookie season. For the better part of three years now, you’ve been hearing all types of Trout stats, included with some sort of “under __” age filter that places him alongside the game’s all-time greats like Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays for his production, relative to his age. It’s been hard to avoid the company which Trout has kept.

With Kershaw, seems we haven’t heard that as much. Part of it, likely, is just Trout stealing the thunder. Part of it, likely, is that Kershaw didn’t begin truly dominating until his age-23 season, so the fun “under-21” stats weren’t as fun. Part of it, perhaps, is the ridiculous Kershaw postseason narrative. Probably the biggest part of it is just that pitchers are tougher to compare across generations, and it might be easier to “dismiss” the historic nature of what Kershaw has done by recognizing that it’s happened during one of the most depressed run environments the live-ball era has ever seen.

Even with the run environment considered, what Kershaw has done these past five seasons is absolutely historic.

Trout’s “peak” — his first four seasons in the Majors — already ranks as one of the 10 greatest peaks by a position player in baseball history. He’s not alone. Kershaw is currently in the midst of a top-10 all-time peak himself. We’re lucky enough to experience them both.

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Granted, I made an executive decision that dilutes the pitcher top-100 leaderboard somewhat. I chose to only look at 1961-Present, the expansion era, rather than beginning my pool at 1921, the start of the live-ball era, as I did with hitters. Maybe you don’t agree with this decision, but it’s based on some logic, at least.

The way in which the game’s best hitters are utilized has remained essentially unchanged for the last century, making for simple comparisons across history. With pitchers, though, usage has changed drastically since the start of the live-ball era. If I would have included pre-expansion pitcher peaks in this table, it would become littered with pitchers who consistently racked up seven-win seasons by throwing 300 innings a year back in the 20s, and I don’t think that’s what anybody wants to get out of this. At least, it’s not what I wanted to get out of it. I wanted to see comparisons of pitchers who threw in a way that resembled today’s game, while dominating the league over multiple seasons. It’s hard for a pitcher to maintain excellence over long periods without succumbing to injury or ineffectiveness, which is what makes the guys at the top of this table so special.

As mentioned earlier, another limitation in this table is the divide on how pitchers should be measured. Some believe run prevention is the key factor. Others would prefer to evaluate their pitchers based on domination in the categories they can control (strikeouts, walks, home run prevention). I think most of us agree that the truly elite pitchers are good at both. With that in mind, I decided to simply use a 50/50 split of the WAR calculated by means of runs allowed, and the WAR calculated by means of FIP. I also included raw ERA and FIP, along with raw ERA- and FIP-, to allow for simple comparisons across changing generations and run environments, so you can gain a better sense of which type of pitcher each guy was. I’d even momentarily considered sorting the table by E-/F- (a 50/50 split of ERA- and FIP-), because that might give a better sense of who the most truly dominant pitchers were, rather than those who “inflated” their WAR by pitching tons of innings. Whatever. It’s all in there! Rank them however you please!

As with yesterday’s post, the columns in this table are all sortable, and there’s plenty of fun little nuggets within, so please, play around with it. I promise you’ll learn something new. After the jump, I’ll share some assorted notes that I find interesting. I encourage you to do the same in the comments.

The Top 100 Five-Year Pitcher Peaks, 1961-Present
Name Years Age ERA FIP ERA- FIP- E-/F- K% BB% HR/9 BABIP tWAR HOF?
Randy Johnson 1998-02 34-38 2.63 2.60 58 57 58 34.1% 7.3% 0.85 0.308 45.3 X
Sandy Koufax 1962-66 26-30 1.95 2.05 60 66 63 26.8% 5.9% 0.58 0.248 43.8 X
Greg Maddux 1994-98 28-32 2.10 2.54 50 59 55 20.2% 3.3% 0.36 0.265 43.0 X
Pedro Martinez 1997-01 25-29 2.18 2.28 47 52 50 32.9% 5.7% 0.64 0.275 42.8 X
Bob Gibson 1968-72 32-36 2.35 2.30 66 70 68 20.8% 7.1% 0.40 0.267 41.7 X
Roger Clemens 1987-91 24-28 2.74 2.61 65 65 65 23.3% 6.8% 0.54 0.285 39.9
Tom Seaver 1969-73 24-28 2.35 2.55 65 74 70 23.0% 6.6% 0.70 0.256 39.8 X
Kevin Brown 1996-00 31-35 2.52 2.87 61 65 63 21.8% 5.2% 0.49 0.278 38.5
Fergie Jenkins 1968-72 25-29 3.04 2.69 79 75 77 20.1% 4.7% 0.84 0.269 37.9 X
Clayton Kershaw* 2011-15 23-28 2.11 2.32 58 61 60 28.7% 5.6% 0.53 0.267 37.6
Bert Blyleven 1971-75 20-24 2.74 2.55 75 69 72 20.4% 6.1% 0.60 0.281 37.1 X
Roy Halladay 2007-11 30-34 2.80 2.97 66 70 68 20.7% 3.9% 0.67 0.296 35.4
Gaylord Perry 1970-74 31-35 2.75 3.13 75 86 81 16.3% 6.9% 0.68 0.254 34.9 X
Juan Marichal 1965-69 27-31 2.30 2.58 69 80 75 18.6% 4.0% 0.72 0.252 34.5 X
Johan Santana 2004-08 25-29 2.82 3.21 64 75 70 26.1% 5.7% 0.99 0.265 34.2
Curt Schilling 2000-04 33-37 3.24 3.02 71 67 69 26.2% 4.1% 1.07 0.294 34.0
CC Sabathia 2007-11 26-30 3.09 3.17 71 73 72 22.2% 6.1% 0.71 0.297 32.3
Cliff Lee 2008-12 29-33 2.89 2.85 70 69 70 22.0% 3.7% 0.72 0.301 32.2
Justin Verlander 2009-13 26-30 3.05 2.99 72 72 72 25.1% 6.9% 0.74 0.286 32.1
Jim Bunning 1963-67 31-35 2.72 2.71 77 80 79 20.3% 5.2% 0.80 0.265 32.0 VC
Dwight Gooden 1984-88 19-23 2.62 2.46 74 68 71 22.6% 7.0% 0.43 0.278 31.7
Jim Palmer 1973-77 27-31 2.58 3.34 72 91 82 13.7% 7.7% 0.58 0.245 31.1 X
Phil Niekro 1974-78 35-39 3.16 3.34 80 85 83 16.1% 8.3% 0.64 0.276 30.5 X
Wilbur Wood 1971-75 29-33 3.08 3.19 84 88 86 13.2% 5.8% 0.68 0.270 30.4
Mickey Lolich 1969-73 28-32 3.20 3.13 88 83 86 19.6% 7.3% 0.86 0.279 30.3
Don Sutton 1971-75 26-30 2.63 2.66 77 78 78 18.0% 6.0% 0.55 0.249 30.3 X
John Smoltz 1995-99 28-32 3.16 3.07 75 71 73 24.3% 6.9% 0.72 0.288 29.9 X
Kevin Appier 1992-96 24-28 3.22 3.22 69 72 71 21.0% 8.8% 0.53 0.275 29.6
Ron Guidry 1977-81 26-30 2.68 2.82 69 72 71 20.9% 7.3% 0.64 0.268 29.5
Mike Mussina 1997-01 28-32 3.43 3.33 75 72 74 22.1% 5.3% 0.92 0.294 29.5
Steve Carlton 1972-76 27-31 3.10 3.04 84 84 84 19.6% 8.6% 0.69 0.274 29.5 x
Dave Stieb 1981-85 23-27 2.95 3.58 71 88 80 14.9% 7.9% 0.70 0.247 29.2
Whitey Ford^ 1961-65 32-36 2.85 3.04 79 82 81 16.9% 6.1% 0.71 0.273 29.2 X
Felix Hernandez 2009-13 23-27 2.85 2.95 73 73 73 23.6% 6.6% 0.62 0.292 29.0
Bret Saberhagen 1985-89 21-25 3.20 3.04 77 77 77 16.8% 4.7% 0.71 0.279 28.9
Jim Maloney 1963-67 23-27 2.80 2.80 77 80 79 23.3% 9.4% 0.57 0.275 28.8
Don Drysdale 1961-65 24-28 2.78 2.90 80 87 84 18.2% 5.7% 0.72 0.264 28.5 X
Jose Rijo 1990-94 25-29 2.64 2.92 68 73 71 21.1% 6.9% 0.59 0.280 28.4
Roy Oswalt 2004-08 26-30 3.22 3.39 75 76 76 18.8% 5.5% 0.72 0.303 28.3
Dean Chance 1964-68 23-27 2.60 2.75 79 80 80 18.5% 8.0% 0.46 0.257 28.2
Nolan Ryan 1973-77 26-30 3.03 2.99 85 82 84 26.4% 14.5% 0.46 0.267 27.9 X
Frank Viola 1986-90 26-30 3.27 3.36 80 84 82 18.7% 6.5% 0.88 0.285 27.6
Frank Tanana 1974-78 20-24 2.86 3.07 80 84 82 19.9% 6.5% 0.81 0.270 27.5
Vida Blue 1974-78 24-28 3.04 3.07 85 82 84 14.9% 7.2% 0.53 0.272 27.4
Catfish Hunter 1972-76 26-30 2.77 3.38 81 96 89 13.6% 5.7% 0.83 0.231 27.2 X
Tom Glavine 1996-00 30-34 3.19 3.81 73 86 80 15.9% 7.9% 0.68 0.278 27.2 X
Dan Haren 2007-11 26-30 3.33 3.33 76 79 78 22.0% 4.7% 0.95 0.288 26.8
J.R. Richard 1976-80 26-30 2.79 2.74 82 78 80 23.0% 10.6% 0.43 0.258 26.8
Orel Hershiser 1985-89 26-30 2.69 3.05 76 84 80 16.6% 7.3% 0.46 0.264 26.6
Luis Tiant 1972-76 31-35 3.12 3.33 80 88 84 14.7% 6.8% 0.76 0.261 26.5
Sam McDowell 1967-71 24-28 2.94 3.04 84 83 84 23.6% 11.3% 0.65 0.266 26.5
Tim Hudson 2000-04 24-28 3.31 3.65 73 81 77 16.8% 7.0% 0.70 0.276 26.4
Tim Lincecum 2007-11 23-27 2.98 2.93 74 73 74 26.5% 8.9% 0.58 0.293 26.4
Brandon Webb 2004-08 25-29 3.30 3.50 72 77 75 18.8% 7.7% 0.62 0.289 26.3
David Price* 2011-15 25-29 3.02 2.98 78 76 77 24.4% 5.3% 0.79 0.292 26.0
Jack Morris 1983-87 28-32 3.38 3.79 83 90 87 18.3% 8.3% 1.02 0.257 26.0
David Cone 1991-95 28-32 3.20 3.43 77 82 80 21.5% 9.3% 0.69 0.270 26.0
Steve Rogers 1976-80 26-30 2.97 3.10 81 86 84 14.8% 7.2% 0.48 0.270 25.6
Andy Messersmith 1972-76 26-30 2.64 3.10 77 88 83 17.7% 8.2% 0.65 0.241 25.5
Jake Peavy 2004-08 23-27 2.95 3.18 74 75 75 25.5% 7.4% 0.78 0.286 25.4
Jon Matlack 1972-76 22-26 2.84 2.81 82 81 82 17.2% 7.1% 0.51 0.275 25.2
Rick Reuschel 1976-80 27-31 3.33 3.26 84 85 85 13.2% 6.6% 0.54 0.290 25.1
Bob Veale 1964-68 28-32 2.83 2.83 83 88 86 20.9% 10.6% 0.40 0.282 25.1
Jack McDowell 1991-95 25-29 3.49 3.60 83 84 84 16.7% 7.1% 0.75 0.285 24.9
Bill Hands 1968-72 28-32 3.08 3.16 80 87 84 14.0% 5.5% 0.76 0.268 24.9
Teddy Higuera 1985-89 26-30 3.28 3.31 78 82 80 19.3% 7.4% 0.80 0.268 24.7
Mark Buehrle 2001-05 22-26 3.61 3.95 78 85 82 14.3% 5.4% 0.95 0.281 24.5
Dennis Eckersley 1975-79 20-24 3.13 3.52 79 88 84 18.0% 7.4% 0.93 0.261 24.5 X
Fernando Valenzuela 1981-85 20-24 2.93 2.89 84 82 83 19.6% 8.7% 0.48 0.272 24.5
Denny McLain 1965-69 21-25 2.95 3.37 87 95 91 18.2% 6.7% 1.03 0.241 24.5
Jered Weaver 2008-12 25-29 3.21 3.56 78 86 82 21.4% 6.6% 0.95 0.268 24.2
Mike Scott 1985-89 30-34 2.93 3.04 83 87 85 21.6% 7.2% 0.75 0.248 24.2
Jason Schmidt 2002-06 29-33 3.35 3.28 79 78 79 24.1% 8.7% 0.75 0.272 24.2
Chris Short 1963-67 25-29 2.82 2.83 82 85 84 18.5% 7.2% 0.58 0.275 24.1
Zack Greinke* 2011-15 27-31 2.82 3.00 75 78 77 24.1% 5.8% 0.76 0.287 24.1
Camilo Pascual^ 1961-65 25-29 3.17 3.34 82 85 84 19.1% 8.2% 0.87 0.264 24.0
Gary Peters 1963-67 26-30 2.50 3.01 75 88 82 17.7% 7.9% 0.58 0.253 24.0
Max Scherzer* 2011-15 26-30 3.36 3.12 83 79 81 27.5% 6.3% 0.99 0.297 23.9
Cole Hamels 2010-14 26-30 3.00 3.27 78 84 81 23.7% 6.2% 0.88 0.285 23.9
Bartolo Colon 1999-03 26-30 3.73 4.01 80 87 84 19.6% 8.8% 1.00 0.285 23.8
Mark Langston 1989-93 28-32 3.37 3.45 85 86 86 19.8% 9.5% 0.71 0.275 23.8
Mike Witt 1984-88 23-27 3.59 3.52 88 84 86 17.2% 8.0% 0.78 0.282 23.7
Dave McNally 1968-72 25-29 2.85 3.28 85 94 90 14.6% 6.6% 0.78 0.246 23.5
Carlos Zambrano 2003-07 22-26 3.30 3.89 74 87 81 20.8% 10.5% 0.73 0.267 23.5
Tommy John 1976-80 33-37 3.11 3.14 83 82 83 10.8% 5.8% 0.40 0.286 23.4
Dennis Leonard 1977-81 26-30 3.45 3.48 86 89 88 15.2% 6.2% 0.85 0.271 23.1
Larry Jackson^ 1961-65 30-34 3.38 3.28 88 88 88 12.3% 5.4% 0.70 0.270 23.1
Bob Friend^ 1961-65 30-34 3.14 3.05 86 86 86 11.7% 4.7% 0.58 0.284 23.0
Ken Holtzman 1969-73 23-27 3.31 3.33 89 91 90 14.9% 6.8% 0.76 0.275 22.9
Chris Sale* 2011-15 22-26 2.94 2.96 72 72 72 28.3% 5.9% 0.88 0.294 22.8
Brad Radke 1997-01 24-28 4.06 3.98 84 87 86 15.3% 4.5% 1.04 0.299 22.7
Mario Soto 1981-85 24-28 3.16 3.28 85 89 87 21.8% 8.6% 0.87 0.248 22.7
Jim Kaat 1964-68 25-29 2.95 3.03 85 83 84 16.4% 4.9% 0.80 0.278 22.7
Javier Vazquez 2000-04 23-27 3.88 3.70 87 82 85 21.2% 5.9% 1.12 0.295 22.6
Mike Cuellar 1969-73 32-36 2.97 3.51 85 98 92 13.6% 6.8% 0.85 0.246 22.6
Matt Cain 2008-12 23-27 3.09 3.55 79 90 85 20.1% 7.5% 0.76 0.266 22.6
Dave Goltz 1975-79 26-30 3.43 3.44 86 88 87 13.1% 7.4% 0.63 0.282 22.5
Doug Drabek 1989-93 26-30 3.03 3.36 84 92 88 14.9% 6.1% 0.65 0.272 22.4
Mark Gubicza 1985-89 22-26 3.42 3.38 82 85 84 15.6% 9.0% 0.49 0.280 22.3
Barry Zito 2001-05 23-27 3.56 4.06 80 92 86 18.5% 8.9% 0.93 0.260 22.2
tWAR = 50/50 blend of RA9-WAR and FIP-WAR
^actual four-year peak included pre-1961 seasons
  • Sorting by just the mixture of ERA- and FIP-, only Pedro, Maddux and Johnson have ever maintained a five-year level of dominance at the same level as the run Kershaw is currently on.
  • Five active pitchers are still in their top-100 five-year peaks, in Kershaw, Price, Greinke, Scherzer and Sale!
  • The Hall of Fame peaks of years past that never were: Dwight Gooden, Wilbur Wood, Mickey Lolich, Kevin Appier, Ron Guidry, Dave Stieb, Bret Saberhagen, Jim Maloney, Jose Rijo, Dena Chance, Frank Viola, Frank Tanana, Vida Blue.
  • Johan Santana’s placement on this table is like the Grady Sizemore of yesterday’s Mike Trout table. What could have been :(
  • On the flip side, it’s a shame that it took Cliff Lee as long as it did to figure it out, as his peak stretch was similarly Hall of Fame-worthy.
  • Uhh… Kevin Brown?
  • Sort by K% and Sandy Koufax just looks laughably out of place. Only 12 pitchers in this table struck out more than a quarter of the batters they faced over a five-year period. Ten of those 12 have done it in the last 20 years. Koufax did it in the 60s.
  • CC Sabathia is the active leader in career pitching WAR by more than 10 wins according to FanGraphs’ calculation, has surpassed the 60-WAR “threshold” and had a better five-year peak than plenty of Hall of Famers in this study. You do the math.
  • Verlander has the Hall of Fame peak out of the way. Will he be effective enough, for long enough, to rack up the necessary counting stats?
  • Nolan Ryan’s walk rate in his best five-year stretch was north of 14%. That is astounding.
  • I’ll admit I was previously unaware of the tragic story of J.R. Richard, who’s five-year peak were also his final five seasons in the Major Leagues. His strikeout rates, relative to the league averages, were among the best in baseball history.
  • Randy Johnson has the greatest five-year pitching peak in Major League history, while allowing the highest BABIP in this table.
  • From 1994-98, Greg Maddux allowed 45 home runs. James Shields allowed 33 home runs in 2015 alone. Shields pitches at PETCO Park. Maddux was pitching during the steroid era.




August used to cover the Indians for MLB and ohio.com, but now he's here and thinks writing these in the third person is weird. So you can reach me on Twitter @AugustFG_ or e-mail at august.fagerstrom@fangraphs.com.

64 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Anon
10 years ago

Nolan RYan – lower career peak than Jose Rijo and Jim Maloney. And there are STILL people who would argue he is the best pitcher of all-time. LOL seems appropriate here.

My favorite fun baseball fact right now: King Felix doesn’t turn 30 until the 1st week of the 2016 season. Man, it seems like he has been around forever. That’s what happens when you start at age 19 and are a regular starter at 20

Anon
10 years ago
Reply to  Anon

Oops, check that – King Felix was up at 20 and a egluar at 21.

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  Anon

homie was up at 19, you were right.

RobM
10 years ago
Reply to  Anon

I’ve rarely heard Nolan Ryan called the best pitcher of all time, and I’ve been watching baseball since Ryan pitched in the 70s. There are some random people out there that do, but it’s pretty rare. Maybe Ryan fan boys remembering him from when they were a kid. It’s more likely I’ll read comments from fans trying to knock Ryan claiming there are those who think he’s the greatest of all time. Ryan probably threw harder than any starter in the game’s history. He was the hardest starter to hit in the game’s history. He also was wildly, well, wild, walking a ton. It always felt as if he should have been better. Yet he has the 6th highest fWAR all time. He’s an easy HOFer, flaws and all. The greatest pitcher of all time? Not even close.

Hurtlocker
10 years ago
Reply to  RobM

I don’t think Nolan Ryan was the greatest pitcher of all time, but he certainly is the hardest to hit all time. Ryan only allowed 6.56 hits per game over 27 years! He pitched 7 no hitters and almost 20 one hitters. He threw over 200 innings 14 times and never gave up more than 20 HR’s in a year. He walked a lot of batters, which is part of his legacy, but he is certainly one of the greats.

Bawfuls
10 years ago
Reply to  RobM

“I’ve rarely heard Nolan Ryan called the best pitcher of all time”

Then you’re fortunate to have avoided some frustrating discussions!

Ebenezer
10 years ago
Reply to  Bawfuls

I haven’t heard anyone say that (though I haven’t been in a lot of those discussions, in person or on line), but I was surprised to see Ryan racked up 106.7 fWAR in his career, which is excellent. I don’t think of him as being that good, but he had the peak, and was very effective through his age 44 season.

Ryan “only” had 83.8 rWAR in his career, which is still very good, but about 23 less WAR depending on how it’s computed. Quite the difference. Glad Jeff, I mean August, is averaging both fWAR and rWAR on this.

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago

I do feel that Kershaw is talked about quite a lot. As great as he’s been these years though, he is no Mike Trout.

RSoxFan0
10 years ago
Reply to  Bip

You would be wrong
ERA- of 58(100/58= 172) is the same as WRC+ of 172, so Their peak are pretty much the same. Except that’s a 5 year peak being compared to a 4 year peak.

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  RSoxFan0

You are using only one measurement there, and one that is not holistic. That measurement compares each to league average, and not to his peers in the upper echelons.

Mike Trout very well could be the greatest player of all time through age 23. He is on pace (though quite early in the race) to be the greatest player of all time. Clayton Kershaw is not on pace to be the greatest pitcher of all time. Plus, Mike Trout is currently at the age that Clayton Kershaw started his current peak.

tung
10 years ago
Reply to  RSoxFan0

I was curious about this, so I checked the single season split leaderboards.
From 1961-2015, we have 97 single seasons with wrc+ of 172 or higher.
During the same period, we have 64 single seasons with era- of 58 or lower.
This is highly impressive especially considering most of these seasons were put up by repeat offenders.

Of course, the main difference is that Trout’s batting only accounts for 2/3 ~ 3/4 of his value,
while Kershaw’s ERA is pretty close to his entire contribution.

jj
10 years ago

Kevin Brown was awesome.

phred
10 years ago
Reply to  jj

I rode brown to 3 rotisserie league wins in a row during that stretch. That he gave me that performance in game 7 of the 2004 alcs was the tastiest icing I’ve ever had.

King of the Byelorussian Square Dancers
10 years ago
Reply to  phred

I saw Kevin Brown lose a perfect game when he hit Marvin Bernard in the 9th inning at Candlestick Park, sitting about 7 rows behind home plate. He still got the no hitter. His opponent, William Van Landingham, lost a no hitter in the 7th to a 3 run HR by Charles Johnson, after which about 1/3 the fans left, uninterested in Kevin Brown’s ongoing perfect game (if you’ve sat in Candlestick, you wouldn’t blame them as much).

My story is not as cool as yours, though.

oelthros
10 years ago

Kevin Brown for quietest greatest peak ever along with quietest HoF consideration worthy pitcher ever?

cornflake5000
10 years ago
Reply to  oelthros

I haven’t looked at the numbers, but Edmonds is another guy with a HOF peak that probably won’t make it.

Snow Leopard
10 years ago
Reply to  oelthros

By my accounting, the most HoF deserving non-HoF SPs from the past forty years are Clemens, Schilling, and Moose – three guys that should get in eventually.

Brown is in the next tier, along with Halliday, Pettitte, and Cone, guys who definitely belong in a big hall, and would be worthy editions to the hall as it is.

Bpdelia
10 years ago
Reply to  oelthros

Brown is such a great example of personality and the hall.

If you’re going to be an unlikeable dick you need to be an under circle dude.

Richie Allen and Kevin Brown were great but not great enough to overcome being fairly despised by all who came into contact with them.

They might be great guys. But people didn’t like them.

And of course the steroids issue with Brown ends his shot.

But he was absurdly good.

His sinker was unhittable and was thrown so hard at a time when must sinker guys were dudes without big velocity.

SemiPro
10 years ago

Maddux lost about 15 starts in 94-95 due to the strike. He could be #1.

Carl
10 years ago
Reply to  SemiPro

Good point.

In addition, Guidry, Leonard, Stieb, Soto and Valenzuela would all have been higher (not bear #1 but still much higher) w/o the 1981 strike.

BigChief
10 years ago

Love seeing J.R. Richard’s name on the list. I feel like not enough people are aware of how amazing he was and how tragically it ended. Even more tragic was his years after baseball until he was able to turn his life around.

Also, he may have cracked the top 25 on this list if he had the opportunity to play the 2nd half of the 1980 season.

Jaack
10 years ago

And now for some old-timey goodness

Walter Johnson 1912-16
RA9-WAR: 63.9 (!)
FIP-WAR: 42.6
ERA: 1.55
FIP: 1.84
ERA-: 53
FIP-: 64
IP: 1793

Jaack
10 years ago
Reply to  Jaack

Oh and I should note, the strikeout leaders from 1912-16:
Walter Johnson: 1202
Pete Alexander: 976
Jeff Tesreau: 764

King of the Byelorussian Square Dancers
10 years ago
Reply to  Jaack

Walter Johnson! See Cobb’s description below…

King of the Byelorussian Square Dancers
10 years ago

That Ken Burns quote is sickly schmaltz. What the hell is “Most of all, it is about time, and timelessness”? I recommend you reach for Ty Cobb quotes, even if not topical they’ll be better.

Since we’re talking pitching, this guy didn’t even make the list:

On August 2, 1907, I encountered the most threatening sight I ever saw in the ball field. He was only a rookie, and we licked our lips as we warmed up for the first game of a doubleheader in Washington. Evidently, manager Pongo Joe Cantillon of the Nats had picked a rube out of the cornfields of the deepest bushes to pitch against us…. He was a tall, shambling galoot of about twenty with arms so long they hung far out of his sleeves and with a side arm delivery that looked unimpressive at first glance… One of the Tigers imitated a cow mooing and we hollered at Cantillon: ‘Get the pitchfork ready, Joe-your hayseed’s on his way back to the barn.’ …The first time I faced him I watched him take that easy windup-and then something went past me that made me flinch. The thing just hissed with danger. We couldn’t touch him…every one of us knew we’d met the most powerful arm ever turned loose in a ball park.

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago

I now desperately want to see a radar gun (scratch that, full pitchfx) on Walter Johnson. Was his stuff just exceptional at the time, or would he get the same reaction in the game today?

jacobyfan23
10 years ago

Just another reminder of the drool worthy stats of Pedro. Guy was a god!

King of the Byelorussian Square Dancers
10 years ago
Reply to  jacobyfan23

Pedro was the best I ever witnessed and he’s super brainy about baseball, you can tell by his book and studio broadcast work. The accent and the fact that he plays baseball, the most meat-headed of sports (OK, maybe hockey), hides the intelligence, but give him an extra listen and you’ll see.

God, I miss baseball. So happy this site is here to soak up those lost hours.

Dave
10 years ago

It is obvious you know nothing about hockey…jus sayin…

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago

Is baseball the most meat-headed of sports? Is that a common belief? I honestly don’t see any sport as cultivating a higher or lower intelligence level among players. (Though I see football as uniquely endangering that quality in its players)

Hank
10 years ago
Reply to  Bip

I’d say yes, though I think it’s more a lack of formal education than any sort of selecting for stupidity within the sport. There are lots of factors, but I’m guessing most of it is a consequence of just a couple of things: how many US-born baseball players go to the pros straight out of high-school (and spent most of their time in high school playing baseball rather than studying, working a job, etc.), and how many of the foreign-born players never had the chance to get even that much formal eduction. It’s probably less of a factor now, but for a long time there was also a cultural thing where “baseball people” looked down at people who took an intellectual approach to the game.

cornflake5000
10 years ago
Reply to  Bip

I remember Rolen taking a lot of crap just because he dared to read.

Yordano's Delivery
10 years ago

I saw Madison Bumgarner blast a homer off Kershaw early this year (May?) and found it difficult to put his greatness in context for the rest of the season.

Sam
10 years ago

Really, because of a single event? Ok.

Joe Camp
10 years ago

Sorting by FIP seems to give the most credible list. Funny that sorting by ERA actually puts Koufax AND Kershaw in the top 3.

capnsparrow
10 years ago

Wow kids today dont know about JR Richards, SMDH

Graham
10 years ago
Reply to  capnsparrow

Better do some neck rolls before all that head-shaking — it’s “Richard.”

Things only 90s kids will understand
10 years ago
Reply to  Graham

How do you know he isn’t talking about the singer/songwriter for the alternative rock band, Dishwalla?

xx
10 years ago

“I’ll admit I was previously unaware of the tragic story of J.R. Richard, who’s five-year peak were also his final five seasons in the Major Leagues.”

Please fix, this should use the possessive “whose” instead of contracting “who’s” from “who is” or “who has.”

Dave
10 years ago
Reply to  xx

Thank you for this, without your clarification I had NO idea what the writer meant!

Fatalotti
10 years ago

I would love to see this chart done for 7 year peaks, just so that we can truly encapsulate how ridiculously good Pedro Martinez was. From 1997-2003, his tWAR was 56.4. That is an average of 8 wins a season.

ERA: 2.20
FIP: 2.26
ERA-: 47
FIP-: 52
K%: 31.8%
BB%: 5.7%

I don’t have the ability to do the leg work: is that the best 7-year stretch by a pitcher in baseball history?

Fatalotti
10 years ago
Reply to  Fatalotti

Quick add-on: among starting pitchers during that period, the closest pitcher in terms of ERA- was Randy Johnson at 59, a full 12 points higher.

Jaack
10 years ago
Reply to  Fatalotti

Well, like I mentioned above Walter Johnson was pretty good. His strikeout numbers don’t quite match up with Pedro’s, mostly because no one struck out in those days, but he from 1910-16, he’s pretty close in the rate stats, but he pitched substantially more innings. His tWAR for that stretch comes out to 70.6, which is averaging 10 a season.

I can’t imagine anyone beating that, but we are talking about deadball soooo…

Fatalotti
10 years ago
Reply to  Jaack

That’s awesome! How about during the period the article covers? Randy Johnson, over that same 7 year stretch had a tWAR of 54.1, which is really close, so it’s possible someone could make a run at Pedro.

Jaack
10 years ago
Reply to  Fatalotti

Looks like Greg Maddux 1992-98. His tWAR for that stretch was 59.5, and he missed time due to the strike.

Randy Johnson probably would have, but his six year stretch of 1997-2002 has an injury season on either side. Probably gets there if he doesn’t get injured in ’96 or ’03.

Seaver and Clemens had stretches where they were generally at Pedro’s level, but one down year (and by that I mean like a 5 WAR year) screws it up.

Jaack
10 years ago
Reply to  Fatalotti

And if we want to go older, Hal Newhouser had a six year stretch about at that level 1944-49, and 1950 is okay, but it’s not quite at Pedro level and it overlapped with a weakened league during WWII.

Ed Walsh 1906-12 is close, but there were only really five super awesome years in there.

19th Century guys like Old Hoss Radbourn and Silver King each had like one or two seasons that have absurd RA9-WAR (like 20) which makes them come out pretty well by these standards, but its not what you really mean by a 7-year stretch.

Fatalotti
10 years ago
Reply to  Fatalotti

For 1992-1998, I’m getting a tWAR for Maddux of 53.9 (54.6 rWAR and 53.2 fWAR). Friggin crazy impressive, and surely would be at least a win higher if not for the strike in 1994. Am I missing something?

And thanks for pointing out Old Hoss Radbourn. Man had 73 complete games in 1884. SEVENTY THREE.

Fatalotti
10 years ago
Reply to  Fatalotti

1986-1992 Clemens clocks in at 56.25. That’s pretty close!

Jaack
10 years ago
Reply to  Fatalotti

I’ve been using the RA9-WAR here on Fangraphs (its on the Value tab of a players page).

Snow Leopard
10 years ago

Giants fan here … as the chart show, the Giants in the last twenty years have had a some strong peaks, but none sustained enough to constitute a HoF career.

MadBum has developed a post-season legend, but his regular season numbers aren’t as impressive as most of the peaks on the list. He may make it, though, if he stays healthy for enough years, and/or if he steps it up a notch in the regular season (his ERA would probably be helped if Bochy curtailed a habit of leaving him in past 100 or 110 pitches after puts some guys on).

Anyway, I’ve fantasized about a RHP career that combined Lincecum 2008-2011 with Schmidt 2002-2006 and Cain 2007-2012. Pretty clear that that would be a HoF career.

tz
10 years ago

Mike Trout has had more WAR through his age-23 than other any position player in the modern baseball era (1900 and later)

Guess which pitcher had the most WAR by age 23?

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2015&month=0&season1=1900&ind=0&team=&rost=&age=14,23&filter=&players=

Snow Leopard
10 years ago
Reply to  tz

I am curious if you asked that because it’s interesting trivia and a fun guessing game, or if because many of the top guys on that list of pitchers (Gooden, Fernando, Dierker) burned out early, so, a cautionary tale about not counting one’s chickens.

tz
10 years ago
Reply to  Snow Leopard

Mostly the first, but it’s interesting to note the latter (and special props to Tanana, who began as a Kershaw-type power pitching stud but remade himself into a very successful junkballer after his arm gave out early in his career).

And the guy at the top of this list is basically the pitcher Gooden might have been.

Bpdelia
10 years ago
Reply to  tz

It’s kind of depressing hiw Tannana is remembered.

The young Tannana was Kershaw. An unhittable hard thrower with see deception.

To come back and completely reinvent himself is amazing and he remained a very good pitcher but it’s also taken away from the memory of what he was.

A pill throwing phenom.

NATS Fan
10 years ago

* 25 HOF pitchers pitched fewer career innings than KEVIN BROWN’s 3256.1.
** 18 HOF ptichers have a career era Higher than KEVIN BROWN’s 3.28 including peers such as Randy Johnson (3.29), John Smotlz (3.33), and Tom Glavine (3.56).
*** KEVIN BROWN has a career fWAR of 76.6! 18th highest pitcher since 1961 (only 16 hitters had more in the same time period) and 24th most pitcher all time. A career era nearly 10 points higher than Tom Glavine’s 66.9 career fWAR! Warren Spahn had 74.8 fWAR (less than Brown) but pitched 1190 more innings than Brown!
****How the heck is KEVIN BROWN not in the Hall?????

Fatalotti
10 years ago
Reply to  NATS Fan

Baseball-reference has this to say:

Starting Pitcher (46th), 68.3 career WAR/45.4 7yr-peak WAR/56.9 JAWS
Average HOF P (out of 62) = 73.9 career WAR/50.3 7yr-peak WAR/62.1 JAWS

Looks like he’s on the lower end, but he does have a legitimate case.

Snow Leopard
10 years ago
Reply to  NATS Fan

As I posted above:

By my accounting, the most HoF deserving non-HoF SPs from the past forty years are Clemens, Schilling, and Moose – three guys that should get in eventually.

Brown is in the next tier, along with Halliday, Pettitte, and Cone, guys who definitely belong in a big hall, and would be worthy editions to the hall as it is.

tz
10 years ago
Reply to  Snow Leopard

Brown and Halliday are closer to your top three than Pettite and Cone, and should be in the HOF without question.

I’d have no problem with Pettite or Cone getting in, but wouldn’t be outraged if they don’t.

Snow Leopard
10 years ago
Reply to  tz

Strong analysis – makes sense.

Kazuto Yamazaki
10 years ago

Brad Radke… vastly underrated.

tz
10 years ago

Pitching to an ERA just over 4 in the Homerdome during the steroid era was definitely an All-Star worthy season. Agreed.

tz
10 years ago

Bottom line on Kevin Brown – if the HOF voters are keeping 90’s era hitters out because of everything being juiced, why the heck did they completely blow off a guy who had a freaking 2.52 ERA over a five-year stretch in the very heart of the offensive explosion. Or if ERA is too saber for you, how about winning 2/3 of his decisions (.667 win %) in that stretch ( 82-41)

And the rest of his career isn’t exactly chopped liver either.

Bpdelia
10 years ago
Reply to  tz

Because:

1) Everyone hates Brown. A notoriously jerky and gruff dude.
2) Brown was one of the first big time pitchers acknowledged to have been using steroids.

So he’s got a double whammy.

He’s a deserving candidate though and his power sinker is something that was very rare at the time.

TKDC
10 years ago

If you look at HR/9, it’s Greg Maddux and then 10 guys from 64-89 (then Kevin Brown). That’s some serious weakly induced contact and ground balls.