How Bad Was Amed Rosario’s Debut, Exactly?

There’s no doubt that Mets shortstop Amed Rosario had a tough debut. He walked three times and struck out 49. Though he showed some power, he usually hit the ball softly and on the ground. Really the only thing that went well, looking back, is that he provided good defense at a position where the team could use an upgrade.

But. How much do we really know about a player after 170 plate appearances? Especially one who hasn’t turned 22 yet? How pessimistic should we be?

Take the long view and there are some glimmers of hope, even among his major-league statistical comps. Look for rookie shortstops under 22 with more than 170 plate appearances in their debut who were also below average when it came to patience, contact, and power, and the list is not without some upside.

Amed Rosario Comps
Name PA BB% K% ISO wRC+ BsR Def WAR
Xander Bogaerts 644 6.80% 23.40% 0.122 82 1.1 -4.7 0.5
Amed Rosario 170 1.80% 28.80% 0.145 74 -0.2 3.5 0.3
Jhonny Peralta 270 7.40% 24.10% 0.099 67 -1.6 6.5 0.3
Matt Williams 266 6.00% 25.60% 0.151 50 -0.5 6.4 -0.2
Orlando Arcia 216 6.90% 21.80% 0.139 64 0.9 -0.4 -0.2
Alex Rodriguez 208 4.30% 29.80% 0.128 54 0.5 -1.1 -0.6
Javier Baez 229 6.60% 41.50% 0.155 54 0.8 -3.0 -0.8
Allen Cordoba 227 7.90% 23.80% 0.089 57 -0.6 -4.9 -1.1
Cristian Guzman 456 4.80% 19.70% 0.05 34 -1.4 -7.4 -3.1
Since 1974, rookie seasons for all shortstops under 22 with a K% > 20%, BB% < 8%, ISO < .155.

Despite some bright spots, a list like this raises concerns. What if he’s more Cristian Guzman or Orlando Arcia than Xander Bogaerts or Alex Rodriguez?

Still, a lot of the metrics here take a while to become meaningful. You wouldn’t want to give up on a young player due to 170 plate appearances of a poor isolated slugging percentage when that takes months to stabilize.

Exit velocity and launch angle, on the other hand, are supposed to take only around 50 balls in play to stabilize. Rosario recorded 128 balls in play. He hit the ball softly (84.2 mph, where 87.1 mph is average) and in bad angles (7.2 degrees on average, while the league produced an 11.1 mark last year), and all those meekly hit balls into the ground resulted in an expected slash line of .217/.240/.316.

Case closed?

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Not quite. For one, we’re not sure how aggressively to age exit velocity. Andrew Perpetua’s early work on the subject of aging exit velo looks a lot like regression: low values increase year over year at first, while high values only fall. We only have three years of that data with which to work, though.

And though 50 balls in play may be enough to know something about in-season exit velocity, how much does it tell you about season-to-season output? Especially when that aging thing comes up? And also what does the interaction of launch angle do to the required number of events?

Here’s another way of showing the problem. In blue on the following graph, you can find the count of Amed Rosario’s exit velos in 2-mph blocks. Behind it, in red, you have the league’s nearly normal distribution.

You’d give that blue distribution an incomplete, wouldn’t you? Yes, he didn’t hit a lot of balls between 95 mph and 100 mph, but are we sure we know how the rest of that histogram will fill in? Especially with that peak at 100 mph?

Further complicating matters is a finger injury Rosario suffered in early September. Injury is something Carlos Correa once acknowledged is detectable in the exit-velo data. Is it something we could see in Rosario’s own numbers?

“Yes!” is the short answer. Right there, at the beginning of September, you can see a huge dip in exit velocity, presumably due to that finger. He recovers late in the season. Case closed! It was the injury all along.

Well, maybe not. Rosario also wasn’t that great in August, when he was healthy. His exit velocity that month (86.1) and launch angles (9.9) weren’t that far off his full-season numbers. That was in a sample of 71 balls in play and produced an expected .221/.244/.337 line. Oof.

We still have to return to the fact that Rosario is just 21 years old. He should be expected to regress towards the league average next year. Let’s say he’s likely to produce an exit velocity between the one he showed in aggregate and league average (84-87) and retain the launch angle he showed when healthy (7-11). Here are the batters who’ve recorded average numbers in both those ranges over the last three years: Elvis Andrus, Tucker Barnhart, Jordy Mercer, and Brandon Phillips. Other middle infielders who show up in those ranges include Nick Ahmed, Alexi Amarista, Adam Frazier, Alexei Ramirez, and Kolten Wong. The less powerful version of Andrelton Simmons appears once, as well, which seems relevant.

As much as we’d like Amed Rosario to be like Elvis Andrus or Andrelton Simmons, we have to remember the journeys that Andrus and Simmons took to get where they are today. Could Rosario be a plus defense shortstop with good baserunning who usually gives league-average overall production? That still looks within reach — he looks like a better defender than everyone else on his healthy comp list.

That’s still a good player, even as bad as Rosario’s debut was. But the range of outcomes has certainly dwindled from where it was when he was an untouchable prospect with the world as his oyster. After all, that debut did happen.





With a phone full of pictures of pitchers' fingers, strange beers, and his two toddler sons, Eno Sarris can be found at the ballpark or a brewery most days. Read him here, writing about the A's or Giants at The Athletic, or about beer at October. Follow him on Twitter @enosarris if you can handle the sandwiches and inanity.

30 Comments
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Handsome Wes
8 years ago

Mets fan here – truth be told, I’m more worried about Dom Smith. Started slow and the glove wasn’t there…

But I’m sure everything is fine, just like it all worked out with Dilson Herrera, Cesar Puello, Fernando Martinez, Brad Holt, Deolis Guerra, Lastings Milledge, Justin Huber, Victor Diaz, Alex Escobar, Grant Roberts, Jay Payton, Paul Wilson, Alex Ochoa, Jason Tyner, and Jorge Toca.

paqza
8 years ago
Reply to  Handsome Wes

Agreed. We know that Rosario can still be a Major League starter with a below average bat. Dom Smith will live and die based on his offense. He looked overmatched on both sides of the ball in his debut, but maybe he’ll adjust. We’ll see. At the very least, he looks like he has enough power to stick at 1B if the hit tool matures.

rosen380
8 years ago
Reply to  Handsome Wes

Sure, some big failures there… like Alex Ochoa who made it to AAA as an Oriole is surely on the Mets. And Jorge Toca who made his professional debut at age 28??

Guys like Tyner and Victor Diaz were never even notable enough to make a top 100, let alone top 10.

I suspect it’d be rather easy to make a list like this for every team, especially given that you’re digging back 20+ years.

Roger McDowell Hot Foot
8 years ago
Reply to  rosen380

Jay Payton ended up as a perfectly okay player, too. I feel the same sense of sour grapes about a lot of these names but it doesn’t seem all that Mets-specific to me, apart from maybe as a commentary on the unfortunate extra degree of hype that attaches to prospects for big-market teams.

FrancoLuvHateMets
8 years ago
Reply to  Handsome Wes

Maybe Ahmed will revolutionize the front office and have a best selling book and movie written about him?

srosenberg19Member since 2018
8 years ago
Reply to  Handsome Wes

i feel like the Mets ruined Fernando Martinez. Dude was rushed to the minors way too quickly.

asreitzMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  srosenberg19

Lastings Millidge, anyone?

Roger McDowell Hot Foot
8 years ago
Reply to  asreitz

I believe you mean Blastings Thrilledge.

feslenraster
8 years ago
Reply to  Handsome Wes

Yikes

asreitzMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  Handsome Wes

Glove was never there…2 players, great examples of why you should never get too excited about prospects. Not every Top 5 prospect turns out to be Carlos Correa.

francis_soyer
8 years ago
Reply to  Handsome Wes

Hey it worked out great for Justin Turner !!

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago

“What if he’s more Cristian Guzman or Orlando Arcia than Xander Bogaerts or Alex Rodriguez?”

I think he will be more like Guzman or Arcia than Alex Rodriguez. Not because I’m low on Rosario (I think he could be a Javier Baez sort of guy), but because I think he’ll be closer to the 8-WAR-career-guy than the 112-WAR-career-guy.

davels
8 years ago

Are we writing off Orlando Arcia already? 23yo, plus D, hit .277 with 15 HRs, 14 SBs. I understand his solid surface stats hide a 85 WRC+… and the offensive bar seems considerably raised this season… but jeez. He seems like a very solid young player with upside to me. Not every SS can be Correa or Lindor.

Also, if I was a Mets fan, I’d be pretty damn excited about that list. Everyone on it is solid to HOF quality (except Cordoba who is in same boat as Rosario).

YKnotDisco
8 years ago

TIL that Matt Williams played 812.1 innings at SS.

jsolid
8 years ago

ARod? Thats his age-19 season. If you look at his age 21 season, he slashed 300/350/496 (wRC+ 119), with a BB/K of 6.4/15.5 And if you look at his age-20 season… This is not really a reasonable comparison.

stangny
8 years ago

Plain and simple…Amed Rosario sucks!!! He had 25 errors this season between AAA & the Mets (19 @ AAA, 6 with Mets). He can’t hit, he is a leadoff hitter at best. He should be in AA batting leadoff. If Sandy Alderson thinks Rosario is so good after hitting .300+ @ AAA, he should be able to hit anywhere in the lineup. He also hit .230 @ AAA for the whole month of June. Funny how he was coddled by the Mets @ AAA always hitting in front of Dom Smith. You can’t turn a leadoff hitter into a power hitter like Sandy is trying to do with Rosario. The Mets moved former 1st round pick Gavin Cecchini from SS to 2B because of throwing errors, why is Rosario being coddled. When Cecchini filled in @ SS this season @ AAA, he was much more poised than in 2016. He has much more power than Rosario. Cecchini had a bad offensive year with a low batting average @ AAA because he was in the bottom of the lineup. Seems like the Mets basically discarded him in the lineup and coddled Rosario batting 3rd most of the time and sometimes 2nd, but always in front of Smith. What a joke and a complete misuse of talent and management. Gavin Cecchini should be the heir apparent @ SS and batting 3rd thru 6th in the lineup, with Matt Reynolds playing 2B both as fulltime starters. Amed Rosario is the one that should be batting leadoff in AA this season. Wake up Sandy Alderson and the Mets. We could’ve traded Rosario to the Royals last offseason straight up for RP Wade Davis. By the time the Mets realize that Rosario is Tejada 2.0, the best they will be able to do with him is DFA.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  stangny

My favorite parts:
“leadoff hitter at best”
“could’ve traded Rosario straight up for Wade Davis”

IVoted4Kodos
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I personally liked following up “He can’t hit” with “he is a leadoff hitter at best” as though the top qualification for being a leadoff hitter is that you can’t hit.

kylerkelton
8 years ago
Reply to  stangny

Man, this guy is awfully bullish on Gavin Cecchini.

FrancoeursteinMember since 2020
8 years ago

Are 21 year olds not allowed to struggle anymore? I guess the Lindors and Correas of the world have spoiled us… I mean hell, even A-Rod figured it out after looking lost for 2 partial major league seasons. Wonder what his exit velocity numbers were?

Rosario was a top-10 prospect in baseball before losing his rookie status, I don’t think 170 major league PAs have diminished his value THAT much. Guys struggle. I love advanced statistics as much as the next guy, but his EV and LA are not concrete, and I don’t think he’s suddenly become an early-career Elvis Andrus just because he didn’t hit the ball hard as a 21-year old in a small sample.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  Francoeurstein

IMO, there is something uniquely ugly about having that few walks and that many strikeouts. Tim Anderson and Paul DeJong did okay their rookie years, but Anderson ran a ridiculous BABIP and DeJong had a lot more power (of course, he is 3 years older). Javier Baez looked even worse in his first cup of coffee and he turned out okay (but isn’t a “star”). Eddie Rosario has been okay once he started hitting for power. Jonathan Schoop has turned into a legitimate threat now.

On the one hand, all of those sound kind of like disappointments for a guy that some were talking up as a possible #1 prospect. I guess Schoop on offensive and Baez on defense isn’t a disappointment (that’s something like a 4-5 win player) but that’s a lot of things that have to go right. On the other, he’s really young compared to most of those guys. There’s just a lot of improvements that need to happen in a lot of different places.

stangny
8 years ago
Reply to  Francoeurstein

Lindor was a high 1st round draft pick by the Indians and Correa was the 1st overall draft pick by the Astros a very short few years ago. A-Rod was also a former 1st overall draft pick by the Mariners. Rosario on the other hand was an International free agent signing who was chased by a total of 3 teams including the Mets (White Sox and Astros were the other two). To say or imply that Rosario is even in the same league with those 3 players is very myopic. Gavin Cecchini was the Mets 1st round draft pick (I think 12th overall). I’m not saying that 1st round picks can’t be a bust, but the Mets have clearly coddled Rosario and pushed Cecchini into obscurity. Give Cecchini a shot @ being the fulltime SS and Reynolds the fulltime 2B. Rosario can’t hit and he is prone to making errors (25 in 2017 between AAA and the Mets).

estone2005
8 years ago
Reply to  stangny

Cecchini sucks…

johnforthegiants
8 years ago

Eno, why were the comments on your article on Dodger bullpen usage closed?

John Autin
8 years ago

Tangent: I’ve been struck by Rosario’s similarity with Jose Reyes in general style of play, and they showed an obvious bond. That’s one of many reasons the Mets MUST NOT bring Reyes back in 2018 — because Amed still has a lot to learn, and he won’t learn it by mirroring “The Eternal Rookie.”

WerthlessMember since 2020
8 years ago

Matt Williams… managed to put up 2.3 WAR in 1989 with a .242 OBP. Incredible.

NHL14
8 years ago

The biggest aspect in his development is going to be pitch selection and discipline, which will likely come as he matures gets more Big League reps. The high K%, low exit velocity and low BB% suggests that he was probably over anxious and not looking for his pitches.

Many now forget that Lindor struggled in his first stint in the MLB. I’m not too familiar with his makeup and maturity but don’t underestimate the turnaround a player can make after one offseason and Spring Training of work.