How in the Heck Is a Rotation This Good Going To Miss the Postseason?

About two weeks ago, Kyle Kishimoto wrote about a shift in the AL West race as the Astros, who had been trailing the Mariners all year, pulled level in the division. Ordinarily, I wouldn’t revisit a topic so soon, especially because Kyle was himself issuing an update to his own previous appraisal of Seattle’s success. But between Kyle’s two posts, the Mariners blew a 10-game division lead to Houston. And in the two weeks since then, well at the risk of steering directly into stereotype, let’s take a look at a graph.

On the morning of August 5, when Kyle’s second piece ran, the Mariners were still actually slight favorites to win the AL West. In the ensuing 15 days, their division title odds dropped by 43.4 percentage points, to just 10.8%. Seattle’s odds of making the playoffs in any fashion are now just 16.4%, which is down 41.6 points. Only three other teams have seen their playoff odds move even 20 points in either direction in that time. One is the Padres. The other two are the Astros and Royals, two of the major beneficiaries of the Mariners’ ongoing slide.
The Mariners are behaving in such a manner that I am going to have a stroke restraining myself from peppering this entire post with nautical idioms. The voices in my head are telling me that it wouldn’t be hackneyed to say the Mariners are “taking on water” or “lost at sea” or “adrift and rudderless.” Those voices are wrong, but they are loud.
Every other team in the AL playoff bracket had better hope the Mariners sink. (Sorry, I can’t help myself.) Because if they do manage to limp into the postseason, they have one unit that will make them inherently dangerous: Their rotation.
After all this consternation, the Mariners are still (if only barely) leading the majors in starting pitcher WAR. They also lead all 30 teams in innings pitched by starters, and are second in K-BB% and third in ERA-. If you want to pin this losing streak on anyone, you can’t blame Seattle’s starters.
The high-water mark of the Mariners’ season was June 18, when they were 13 games over .500 and 10 games up on both Houston and Texas, who were tied for second in the division. Since then, Seattle is 20-31, which is the second-worst record in baseball, ahead of only the Chicago White Sox. (The White Sox, God save them, have somehow won only 10 of their past 52 games.)
During that 20-31 run, Seattle’s starting pitchers have the third-best ERA- in baseball, the third-best K-BB%, and the best walk rate by an enormous margin. Outside of Andrés Muñoz, Mariners relievers have been pretty bad on aggregate; non-Muñoz relief arms have one save and six blown saves in their past 51 games, and an ERA of 4.59.
Now, six blown saves (nine including Muñoz’s efforts) in two months doesn’t explain everything that’s gone wrong in Seattle. For that, you have to turn your attention to the offense: .206/.299/.355 since June 19. That’s a WRC+ of 93, which is somehow still 20 points better than Chicago’s but — more relevant to this issue — 20 points worse than Houston’s.
Worse than that, Seattle’s offense has been streaky and bad in big moments. Mariners hitters have the second-lowest WPA since June 19, more than a run worse than anyone other than the White Sox. Over their past 51 games, the Mariners have scored two or fewer runs 23 times, which is tied for second most in the league. They’ve been held to one run or less 13 times, which is more than the Royals and Astros put together, and Seattle is — as you might imagine — 0-13 in those contests. The Mariners have been goose-egged as many times in the past two months as the Phillies have in the past 12.
I didn’t mean to spend this much space ragging on the Mariners’ offense — or to be more accurate, their paucity thereof. But it is important to underscore that in an age where bullpen games are incredibly common in the playoffs, a team with five very good starting pitchers is trending toward being left out of the postseason altogether.
Consider the following population of players: Pitchers who have thrown 50 or more innings as starters this season and are currently (i.e. per RosterResource) in the starting rotation of an American League team with at least a 10% chance of making the playoffs, according to our playoff odds. This is not the full list of potential playoff starters; the Guardians, for instance, have only two players on this list and are absolutely going to the postseason. Gavin Williams fell just outside the innings cutoff, but you’d better believe that he’ll make a playoff start for Cleveland if he’s healthy. The arbitrary endpoints have to end up somewhere.
But the 36 (it was 37, but Zach Eflin went on the IL while I was writing) who fit those criteria are representative of the pitchers who would make the starts in the AL postseason bracket this coming October. You can come up with your own list of where each of the Mariners’ five starting pitchers would end up in a fantasy draft of available rotation options for the AL playoffs, but here’s where they rank among those 36 starters.
| Pitcher | ERA | xERA | FIP | Outs/GS |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Bryan Woo | 1st | 1st | 1st | 25th |
| Logan Gilbert | 3rd | 2nd | 5th | 1st |
| Luis Castillo | 17th | 16th | 10th | 6th |
| George Kirby | 12th | 9th | 3rd | 11th |
| Bryce Miller | 15th | 15th | 17th | 12th |
One thing that’s become a real drag about working in baseball over the past few years is how quickly the role of the starting pitcher has changed, especially in the context of the playoffs. So much has changed so quickly that most fans, and even most generalist sportswriters, don’t appreciate how rare it is for a team to put together an entire five-man rotation of starting pitchers who can turn over a lineup more than twice in a playoff game. And then to keep such a rotation healthy over the course of the season.
Last season, all four teams who played a best-of-seven series had at least one bullpen game in the postseason. (I guess we can argue about the Astros in Game 4 of the ALCS, where José Urquidy was pulled in the third after allowing three straight baserunners, and Hunter Brown threw three scoreless innings in relief. Does that count as a bullpen game or did Urquidy just get knocked out early?) Three of those teams — the Astros, Phillies, and Rangers — spent more on their top three starters than the A’s spent on their entire 26-man roster. And they still found themselves short of trustworthy starting pitchers.
Building a rotation like the one the Mariners have is arguably harder than making the playoffs. Surely fewer teams will accomplish the former feat than the latter this season. So if they do end up missing the postseason after building the most difficult part of a postseason-worthy roster, that’d be astonishing. A team with a rotation this good ought to be (winces) unsinkable.
Michael is a writer at FanGraphs. Previously, he was a staff writer at The Ringer and D1Baseball, and his work has appeared at Grantland, Baseball Prospectus, The Atlantic, ESPN.com, and various ill-remembered Phillies blogs. Follow him on Twitter, if you must, @MichaelBaumann.
There has been a lot of chatter about the batting eye in Seattle and how it’s just hard to hit there and that might be skewing how good the pitchers are/bad the hitters are. The team has a 2.73 ERA at home and a 4.32 ERA on the road which is a significant difference. Hitters don’t show up as different though so who knows?
They also haven’t really addressed offense. I mean, Arozarena was good a pickup but he’s not going to turn a bad offense good by himself. I don’t get the Turner pickup at all. He is a vs L DH which is such a marginal need. They need to try to trade one of their starters for a middle of the order bat. Lots of teams looking for starting pitching.
It shouldn’t matter if the park effects affect both teams.
Not necessarily.
Some studies have shown that extreme park effects impact the home team (Boston, Colorado, Oakland etc) more that visiting teams.
I think with the Mariners, the situation is somewhat the opposite.
2021-24 Mariners
Home
Hitters OPS .678 (29th)
Pitchers OPS .647 (1st)
Away
Hitters OPS .720 (11th)
Pitchers OPS .739 (19th)
T-Mobile park is very pitcher friendly.
But Mariners hitters are less affected than visiting hitters thanks to their familiarity with the batter’s eye. (more plausible than the Mariners hitters being less affected by Seattle weather or stadium dimensions)
And this in turn makes the Mariners pitchers look better than they are in ways park factor cannot completely capture.
Away-Home OPS for Mariners hitters (2021~2024)
.047->.033->.046->.043
Away-Home OPS for Mariners pitchers
.094->.074->.069->.144
One thing that perhaps plays into this is that the Mariners have a lot of the same pitcher. All of Woo, Kirby, Gilbert, and Miller are pitching like the same guy, and Castillo isn’t far off: low-walk, medium-K, medium-HR. It’s uncanny how similar they are to each other.
It may be that that profile plays up at home (for all the obvious Safeco/T-Mobile reasons), but doesn’t play as well on the road.
I’ve wondered similar. If their hitting is being hurt at home, their pitching should then be helped. While both teams play in the same conditions, it could be giving us a false image of how historically good the Mariners pitching is.
Has it changed recently? If not, it shouldn’t be unique to 2024.
“spent more on their top three starters than the A’s spent on their entire 26-man roster. And they still found themselves short of trustworthy starting pitchers.”
:Jacob DeGrom injured on the bench has entered the chat:
Seattle is a fascinating psychology story. The pitchers are helping each other get better, and the hitters are making each other worse. I have no other explanation for why so many hitters with good track records have career worst years with Seattle.
It’s a difficult environment to hit in. The ball doesn’t carry at night. It gets in power hitters heads when they first come over (same thing happens in SD).
They also collectively have an awful approach at the plate. Far too often it looks like they have no gameplan for attacking the opposing pitcher and that’s on the hitting coach.
marine layer
It’s crazy to me how good Woo has been this year absent the consistent ability to miss bats (<20 K%, 6.8 K/9). He’s been the king of weak/bad contact; you would think a .229 BABIP screams regression but his expected indicators are still excellent (2.32 xERA) to good (3.86 xFIP).
His command has been outstanding. If you consistently hit your spots changing eye levels both horizontally and vertically hitters are on the defense.
I’m often sure Woo’s success can’t continue without better secondaries. But, man, he doesn’t look like he’s even trying out there (except after one of the frequent injuries). It’s been an amazing year.
Is xERA more predictive than FIP or xFIP? I feel like it can capture somewhat if a low BABIP is lucky (screamers hit right at someone), but is the ability to induce weak contact ‘sticky’ from one year to next? Anecdotally as someone who follows Logan Webb, his xERA has generally been further from his actual ERA than his FIP or xFIP the past several years. I would interested in an actual study.
Webb is one of the few SP outliers with that big a xERA gap. Others are Ronel Blanco and Reynaldo Lopez. What they all have in common is high reliance on their change up.
The premise of this piece is that a team with a bunch of good starting pitchers is extra-dangerous in the playoffs. Is that actually true? I mean, just as homer-reliant teams don’t systematically underperform their projections in the playoffs, maybe starting pitching-reliant teams don’t systematically overperform their projections in the playoffs?
The 90’s atlanta braves stare at your comment
Ask the 90’s Cleveland teams about the umps’ strike zone.
The 2011 Phillies have entered the chat.
The bullpen and bullpen deployment determine as many postseason games as the SPs do.
The Mariners are wasting back to back seasons of perfect health from the rotation.
Last season Castillo, Gilbert, and Kirby all threw 190+ innings and Miller was over 130.
This season that group is all over 143 IP and even Woo is on pace for 110-120 IP.
I don’t think winning Russian Roulette is a repeatable skill…
I’m stunned by the passivity of their FO. In the 2022 playoffs they were a top of the lineup bat short of knocking off the eventual Champions(Astros) in the ALDS.
I thought they were going to shift into a higher gear and make some win now moves in the off-season and instead they’re still a top of the lineup bat short for the 3rd straight year.
Calling DiPoto “passive” is, at *best*, inaccurate; however, rearranging the deck chairs on the USS Mariner as it sinks (you’re welcome, Mike!) when you Smartest-Guy-In-The-Room’d a 54% win goal in the offseason is a bad look for sure.
But the implied premise of the article–that having 5 great SP actually doesn’t help you the way it might have in previous gen’s–is worth exploring. e.g. If SEA had traded Logan Gilbert to BAL for a legit, long term bat (or more), both teams might be better off (see: MIL). Again, SEA isn’t passive, but buying low on underperforming bats for your low offense environment while hoarding all the SP seems like a poor strategy to me
I meant passive in regards to “going for it” but I probably should have worded it differently. Fortune favors the bold, as the saying goes.
Having 5 great SPs is an even bigger advantage than it used to be IF they stay healthy . Particularly when Gilbert, Kirby, Miller and Woo are being paid chump change. Combined those 4 studs are making about 6.5 million this year…
The Astros and Red Sox recently won titles by getting creative in the playoffs and maximizing the use of their SPs to cover for inconsistent bullpens.
The Mariners could absolutely pull that off had they found a way to add more to their lineup the last 2 years
Well they did acquire three good hitters in Luke Raley, Randy Arozarena and Victor Robles! Polanco hasn’t been terrible. Raleigh is fine. Rodriguez is OK. Crawford and Rojas are defensive. The problem has been that nobody is better than “good” and they keep giving PA to Turner and the Mitches.
I guess you could argue that they should have done whatever it took to acquire Soto. For that matter maybe they should do whatever it takes to sign Soto.
Your comment works on a denotative and hilarious, ironic level, and thus, gets a +1 from me. And while I can’t imagine Soto signing in Seattle without being offered more money than anywhere else (which won’t happen), yes, that’s exactly what the Ms should do.
Are we sure Victor Robles is actually a good hitter?
Interesting tidbit in Jeff Zimmerman’s Mining The News that the rotation really thrives on sleep/rest. Shooting for 11-12 hours per night. Probably plays a role in recovery/health.
The position players sleep a lot too, but,l unfortunately they do it during the games.
I laughed.
So the new market inefficiency is fielding a rotation comprised entirely of dudes without young children?
The Mariners are among the worst teams in baseball at at situational baseball and creating runs which makes their high k offense look even worse. And the manager is one of the worst tacticians in MLB. Last night’s display was an embarrassment.
At least he’s gone now.
I continue to be amazed by how many people think Seattle needs to trade a starter for a bat. The only reason they are in the playoff conversation is because of their rotation. And 5 really good starters is not a bad thing. No one is wasting away in the minors.
Their starters have been strangely healthy over the last two years (compared to the rest of the league) but it’s not hard to imagine a scenario where if they trade a starter in the offseason, that next year 2 guys get hurt, 1 suddenly underperforms, and all of a sudden they only really have 1 great starter. And there are no good options behind the current 5.
I also think we have to acknowledge that Seattle is almost as extreme of a ballpark as Coors. And that for as good as Dipoto is at developing pitching, he is horrible at identifying and bringing in competent veteran hitters (Wong/Pollock last year, Garver/Haniger/Polanco this year).
If Seattle believes in their ability to draft and develop great pitchers (and it appears they do) then trading pitching absolutely makes sense.
If they had 1-2 guys ready in AAA yeah I’d agree. But the next guy up is Hancock (who’s terrible) with no one ready behind him. They are indeed great at developing pitchers but it’s not like everything turns to gold as Emerson Hancock is example #1 (drafted 6th overall and highly ranked prospect who looks like a depth innings eater at best).
Ya I would keep the rotation intact considering what a financial bargain they will be for years to come. The bill this year is roughly $31 million for the entire 5 man group.
That’s why I think the FO should have been more aggressive in upgrading the lineup the last few seasons.
The situation reminds me of the NFL where a team has a great QB on a rookie contract so they splurge a little to try and take advantage of that window before they have to pay the QB. Except the Mariners haven’t done that
Which I blame ownership for. Maybe the worst thing about MLB is the root structure that forces us to hope that our billionaire is more willing to spend than the other billionaires. Seattle has had fairly austere (cheap) ownership for their entire history, with a few forays into the top 10 payroll lists, but generally sitting in the middle. Stanton refused to pay for a thumper like Corey Seager 2 years ago, and so like the Angels with Mike Trout, the M’s have been frittering away a gem – maybe the best rotation since the 90s Braves.
I think the extreme park factors you mention are reason enough to entertain trading pitching for hitting. Is it easier/cheaper to sign a premier hitter to play in Seattle, or to trade away pitching for hitting and then find a FA pitcher who wants to come to Seattle on a short deal?
And what’s the point of 5 solid starters if only 3 of them start in the postseason? Position players start every game.
The goal is to win the World Series and to do that you have to win two best of seven series. 4 playoff worthy starters will certainly help your cause. And being able to move a good starter to the bullpen in the playoffs is a huge luxury. I’m not sure how you could say having more than 3 good starters is pointless. Look at how much elite relievers go for at the deadline.
I disagree, and I think MIL is a good reason why. They are not a dissimilar org, and dealing Burnes allowed them to buttress offense without destroying their staff. SEA is pitching heavy with a great catcher, an occasionally magnificent CF, and a box of stage pistols with flags that say BANG! on them when you pull the trigger.
Thus e’r does the good USS Mariner list heavily, even in fair seas…
I laughed at your description of the Mariners offense, well done sir.
However Burnes is set to be a FA after this season whereas Gilbert, Kirby, Miller and Woo are under super cheap team control for several more seasons.
Still, I will admit you might be right depending on the offers they received
Agreed, it’s not a perfect analogy, and following the Dodgers has taught me that you really can burn through 10 starters in 100 games, but if SEA isn’t going to participate in top tier FAs, then trading pitching is their only option
Saying that a team needs to trade a starter for a bat gives me Marlins Lopez for Arraez vibes and that wasn’t such a great idea in retrospect
Like a jerk, I wondered how much of the premise was off, ie that the home park was making the starters look extra good. So i went to fangraphs leaders to check but I’m getting glitches when I try to filter both for starting pithcer and home park. Do others have this problem, or an explanation?
I also had this issue
Oh I don’t know, maybe if they, you know, HIT THE BALL, they might make the playoffs.
I dunno, they’re 13th in road FIP for starting pitchers, so maybe the fact that T-Mobile is playing as the most extreme pitcher’s park since…Safeco Field in 2012 has more to do with why the staff seems dominant. They sure do give up a lot of runs on the road for such a purportedly dominant group.
Whatever they did to the park it has tilted against batters even further. This has long been a pitcher’s park, but they are pushing the outer bounds of capability. On the road, their pitchers, as a group, have amassed an allowed wOBA of 0.314. League average on the road is 0.315. At home, league pitching yields a better 0.307 wOBA, but Seattle pushes that down to 0.254. Road wOBA is 19.1% higher than at home. For their batters we seem a similar story without quite the impact. At home, Ms batters have had a wOBA of 0.286, which pushes to 0.302 when going on the road representing a 5.3% difference.
It has been kind of a running joke this year that some folks have have the same level of hatred for Seattle’s offense as they have love for the pitchers. Yes, these are good arms most nights, but Skydome West makes them look like the best in the league. When on the road, however, they have been utterly ordinary. The disappointment stems from the bats being below average on the road and horrific at home.
https://ibb.co/VCZQg9D
Let’s hope they rally to get to a 54% winning percentage. All the way to 8th in the AL. #DreamBig
Dan “The Man” Wilson will lead the charge!
I strongly suggest sending Logan Gilbert’s contract/terms (and Ryan Bliss’) to the Cubs for Nico Hoerner’s+ this offseason to try something different next year