I Have Learned Something Bad About the Royals

In a sense, we’ve all been able to see this coming. For the Royals, it’s long been a race against time, trying to win as much as possible before the simultaneous free agencies of Eric Hosmer, Lorenzo Cain, and Mike Moustakas. This past season was pretty clearly going to be a last ride, and now the organization will have some tough decisions to make. They’ve already denied the Braves permission to interview Dayton Moore for a job in baseball ops. It might even stay that way. Moore might remain in Kansas City to try and see this through.

But let me share with you a fun fact. Maybe it’s more a collection of three related fun facts. You already knew that next year’s Royals were going to feel pretty different. You already knew they were likely to take a step back. It’s a good thing the core managed to win a World Series. Obviously, it’s always good to win a World Series. But the recent championship might take some of the edge off. What the Royals have left, as of today — theirs isn’t the best roster picture.

Let me try to do this quickly. There’s no more actual baseball to discuss. It ended last week, or, for the Royals, last month. In place of actual baseball, we’ve got imaginary baseball, projected baseball. We already have 2018 Steamer projections uploaded. That should be fun, for the forward-thinking among you. There’s regular Steamer, which projects performance over estimated playing times, and there’s Steamer600, which projects performance over full seasons, more or less. With Steamer600, everyone is set to the same denominator. Makes it easy to compare.

What I did: I looked at all the hitter and pitcher projections, by Steamer600. I arranged everything by team, now that free agents have been removed from team affiliations. I also manually removed some strange entries, like a projection for Cliff Lee on the Phillies. Then I ran some simple additions. For every team, I calculated the combined projected WAR for its top five players. Then I did the same for every team’s next five players. Then I did the same for every team’s next ten players. These are kind of artificial groups, but I figured this could provide a sense of top talent, supporting talent, and depth. A snapshot of the projected landscape, in early November of 2017.

With no further delay, here are all the teams, by their projected top five players.

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There should be nothing too weird about this. Many of the projected best players are projected that way because they were most recently excellent performers. The majority of the excellent recent performers are still on the same rosters. Of course the Nationals are projected to have great top talent. Of course the A’s aren’t. Of course the Dodgers are projected to have great top talent. Of course the Padres aren’t.

You can find the Royals all the way to the right. They’re in last place. They’re actually in a tie for last place, with the A’s. But a tie for last is still last. This kind of isn’t fair; what chance have the Royals had of keeping Hosmer, Cain, and/or Moustakas? That doesn’t make their situation any less real. The Royals don’t currently have a single player projected for 3 WAR. The best projected player on the team is Salvador Perez. Perez just finished with a .297 OBP, which was a step above the season before.

No need to dwell. Now on to projected players six through ten.

All right, Astros. All right, Dodgers! Good teams are likely to stay good. You find many of the usual suspects over there to the left. And, all the way to the right? The Royals, again. This time, they have last place all to themselves, a full win below the White Sox. This is a group that begins with Alex Gordon. I don’t know what just happened to Gordon; I never took him to finish with a wRC+ of 62. Not last season. Remember, he was supposed to be the safe one. But Gordon came apart, performing as a replacement-level player, and now he’s projected to bounce back, up around a win or two. This is optimistic. This is including some Alex Gordon optimism.

The Royals don’t have the top-end talent. They don’t have the supporting talent. As for the depth? Here’s one more plot, showing players 11 through 20.

The Dodgers are practically off the chart. Their 11th-best player is Cody Bellinger, projected at 2.5 WAR. The Royals’ best player, Perez, is projected at 2.6 WAR. In this plot, it’s the Dodgers who most catch the eye, and that makes all the sense in the world, but I chose to focus this post on the Royals, so, look to the right, again. You find the Royals in last, a fraction of a win below the Giants. The Royals’ 11th-best player might be Sam Gaviglio, or Ian Kennedy. It doesn’t matter which; they project the same. Down it goes, to the Jorges Soler and Bonifacio. It’s not that the Royals don’t have any upside, that they don’t have any potential surprises. It’s just that Steamer doesn’t see much of anything there, and all Steamer is is a projection system that makes use of what players have actually done.

In terms of top talent, the Royals are last. In terms of supporting talent, the Royals are last. In terms of depth, the Royals are last. Steamer presents a rather damning case, even if all this does is confirm what you kind of already suspected. It’s known around the industry that the Royals are in a challenging spot. They’d tell you as much, themselves. Yet this might not just be a window closing. This could be a window slamming shut. Slamming shut so hard the window itself shatters into a million little pieces.

There are other points worth making. Points that might soften this a little. First, it’s November, not March, and the Royals will be active. Perhaps they’ll bring back one of the major free agents. Perhaps they’ll find talent somewhere else. The Royals have roster holes, but they’re going to try to plug them. Beyond that, this is all based on one single projection system, and you might argue that the projection systems have some trouble with this current weird era, where it seems like more players are emerging out of nowhere. Last year’s Royals just found a solid regular in Whit Merrifield. What if there were other Whit Merrifields? You have to give a chance to the player development. For all I know, the Royals might be sitting on the next Chris Taylor. He didn’t project well a year ago, either.

But the Royals have work to do. Seemingly a lot of it. When you look at the rival Tigers, you see a team that might be several years away from returning to contention. Yet between Detroit and Kansas City, I’m not actually sure which team has it worse.





Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.

46 Comments
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Viva MontenegroMember since 2016
8 years ago

At least they’ve got that vaunted, well-maintained farm system to look to.

Wait, what?

khaaan
8 years ago

I must be reading this wrong. The charts make it look like the Mets aren’t bad, and we all know that’s not possible.

FrancoLuvHateMets
8 years ago
Reply to  khaaan

It’s also not taking into account Cardinal Devil Magic.

Jim Melichar
8 years ago

Steamer hates the Brewers, a lot. That’s what I learned.

Outta my way, Gyorkass
8 years ago
Reply to  Jim Melichar

No kidding – I kind of wonder what’s up with that, considering ZiPS projected them to take the NL WC1. Maybe just one particular methodology just doesn’t like what the Brewers are cooking?

In particular, Steamer really seems to hate the Brewers pitching. Zach Davies is their best projected pitcher at 1.8 WAR – they are not buying Chase Anderson (1.7), Josh Hader (0.5) or Corey Knebel (1.1) at all, and Jimmy Nelson (1.6) might as well be a dart thrown at a dartboard given his injury situation.

dl80Member since 2026
8 years ago

Nelson is likely to miss much/most of the season. Steamer projects him for 94 innings, which means he’d be on pace for 3.2 WAR if he pitched the whole season.

Anderson’s season last year was quite uncharacteristic for him. If that’s his new baseline, then he’s quite good, but Steamer can’t know that (and neither can we, really).

I think the one they are way off on is Davies, who they are projecting to suddenly have a huge bump in HR/9, way above his career norms over 400 innings. That seems like a mistake and goes beyond regression to the mean.

Knebel and Hader are unlikely to have a 90% LOB again. And even if they do, it’s hard to project most relievers for a bunch of WAR until they have done it a couple times in a row.

I don’t think the pitching projections are off at all, really, except on Davies.

Outta my way, Gyorkass
8 years ago
Reply to  dl80

I don’t particularly find fault in the methodology Steamer is using – I realize that projections have to have built in safeguards against recency bias, and are better for doing so, but if I’m a gambling man, I’m taking the hell out of the over for Hader/Knebel/Anderson, and probably Davies too.

Hader will have a full season of usage, and unless he completely Steve Blass disease-s his way out of favor, that stuff is too good to only notch half a win, Knebel seeing a drop-off to 1.1 WAR is too big to pass the smell test to me, and Anderson…didn’t he vastly improve some of his secondary pitches, and added significant FB velocity? Stay healthy and I think he exceeds 1.7 WAR fairly easily.

Davies is the one guy I am iffy on – the stuff is kind of marginal, and while he locates well, you have way less margin for error when you’re only throwing 90.

mikejuntMember
8 years ago

You have a harsh lesson coming about the predictability of relief pitchers.
Do you believe Knebel is going to sustain the +4K/9, reduced HR rate despite an increased FB rate, with no increase in walk rate?

Because he does not exactly have a sustained track record of being this good. 1.1 WAR would be 150% greater than his non-2017 career WAR total and would be his 2nd-best season by nearly triple.

roydjtMember since 2018
8 years ago

As a Padres fan, these charts don’t give me much more confidence than my brethren in KC.

Shirtless George Brett
8 years ago

*thinks back to 2014 and 2015*

Worth it.

Fredchuckdave
8 years ago

As a White Sox/AL Central fan all I have to say is suck it Royals Fans; you suck worse than us (but also might steal our good draft picks by sucking, scum).

John
8 years ago
Reply to  Fredchuckdave

Honest question here: is this a thing? Are Royals’ fans known to be jerks? I’m also rooting in the AL Central and can’t think of a bad feeling or thing to say about a Royals fan. Never heard that they have reputations like Cards/Cubs/Yanks/RSox (and not saying those reps are deserved, just that they exist).

This seems like a sourpuss.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  John

I don’t think that Giants fans in general are awful, but on Fangraphs a disproportionate number of the terrible commenters are Giants fans.

oldmanduggan
8 years ago
Reply to  John

Oh, totally. Remember when they jumped out of the stands and beat up the White Sox first base coach?
/ohwait

antone
8 years ago
Reply to  Fredchuckdave

This post is not up to the standards of Fangraphs. It might fly at other sites (and I feel bad for others in that community if this is considered acceptable).

I would consider deleting your post and withdrawing from posting again unless you can do it in a civil manner.

KennyMember since 2017
8 years ago

Of course we all looked at our teams. Pirates seem to have a very good shot at the playoffs, no?

MikeSMember since 2020
8 years ago

The whole AL Central, outside of the top of Cleveland’s roster, looks…not good.

kevinthecomic
8 years ago
Reply to  MikeS

That’s what I was thinking. You have the Royals and Tigers in year 1 of a rebuild. The White Sox in year 2. Minnesota likely to regress to their pythagorean record of, what, 82 – 82? That leaves the Indians with a shoe-in division title. In fact, they might have it all wrapped up by the end of August.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago

It isn’t all bad. Some combination of Salvador Perez, Ryan O’Hearn, Cheslor Cuthbert, Whit Merrifield, Hunter Dozier, Jorge Bonifacio, and Jorge Soler might mean they’re watchable at some point late next year. They still have 60% of a useful rotation with Duffy, Karns, and Hammel. And they’ll get to draft high for a few years.

I mean, it is still mostly bad, but it’s not the end of the world.

mikejuntMember
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

They should go White Sox and trade all those dudes, right? With the nonexistent farm system, there’s basically no chance those guys are on the next relevant Royals team, since they have nothing to flip to reload instantly like the White Sox did. The Royals aren’t likely to contend before like 2021 or 2022 at this point.

Some of those guys are only going to lose value from here (Whit Merrifield).

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  mikejunt

I would be blown away if any of those guys except Duffy and maybe Perez had any value. So yeah, shop them for sure. Most of those other guys are in AAA or were disappointments–they don’t have any value. Do we think someone would trade for Merrifield? I don’t know…

Chill
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Boston could roster merrifield pretty comfortably. Good starter at 2B while Pedey heals. Versatile enough to fill the Brock Holt and/or Nunez utility role. Cost controlled I assume. What’s not to like from Bostons perspective? Cost. That’s the unknown. Merrifield is a fine ballplayer but not likely to be relevant by the time KC is ready to contend again. What would KC expect in trade is the question.

mikejuntMember
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

They have a number of dudes who are at least as valuable as people moved at the trade deadline like Nunez. Someone will bet on Merrifield’s breakout meaning he is now a league average regular.

Similarly, plenty of teams would be glad to use Duffy as a 3rd-5th starter type, in fact he’d be above average at that role. He’s no staff ace, but there’s contending teams needing reliable arms.

I don’t know that the Cubs have super high value shit to give up anymore, but you’d think they would be very interested in a pitcher like Duffy given they have multiple rotation spots to fill and little to no depth in the rotation after Montgomery.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  mikejunt

Duffy is almost certainly their best player. His depth charts projection isn’t very good but his track record the last two years is a #2 on some teams, and a #3 on most. He would get the biggest return, easy. Merrifield and Perez are probably next after that. And…that’s it. Karns and Hammel might value at the deadline when teams need to plug rotation spots. I just don’t think they’re going to get great value back except for Duffy.

mikejuntMember
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Yeah, but the point is that they’re terrible, and likely to be terrible until basically all these guys are free agents (even guys like Soler who had their clocks started in 2016), so there’s no actual benefit to keeping them and letting them get injured, unless you think there is an opportunity for them to increase in value before trading.

Duffy and Merrifield are probably as valuable as they will ever be. They should be moved this offseason.

Maybe Perez too, with Washington looking for a catching upgrade. You could easily leverage Perez’s outstanding power by batting him 6th or 7th in that Nationals lineup that is so good and is on base a lot. Perez managed to be worthwhile despite a sub.300 OBP because he has great power for a catcher – put him where he can hit 3 run homers.

Certainly the Royals are a better trading partner for the Nationals than their primary barrier to advancing in the postseason in LA with Grandal. Its verrrry difficult for two teams that are trying to win in the same season to work out a trade where they both get better. I don’t think there’s a meaningful chance of Washington trading for Grandal.

oldmanduggan
8 years ago
Reply to  mikejunt

Duffy is 25th in fWAR amongst SPs over the past two years. That’s pretty firmly #2 territory.

oldmanduggan
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Merrifield should definitely be sold while his value is high.

LHPSU
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

“Maybe watchable at the end of the year” is pretty much the end of the world.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
8 years ago

well their last WS win was just 3 years ago.if you consider that statistically every Team wins a WS every 30 years that is not bad.

yeah they probably should have sold this Deadline but the Division was terrible and they were actually in the WC race at that time. thus I can see why they went in one last time.

now they do have to rebuild. the Situation isn’t great because they don’t have many trade Chips left but in a couple years the farm should be OK again if they do it right.

KindleT
8 years ago

Why are the Mets higher on “Top 5 players” than the Yankees?
For Mets- Caspedes, DeGrom, Thor, Dominic Smith, Rosario (?)
For NYY- Judge, Sanchez, Severino,Bird, Hicks

????

LHPSU
8 years ago
Reply to  KindleT

I forgot what Greg Bird’s batting line was this year, could you remind me?

MLBSwami
8 years ago
Reply to  LHPSU

Around the same as Dom Smith, but Bird was injured.

Whats Smith’s excuse?

Pirates HurdlesMember since 2024
8 years ago
Reply to  KindleT

Its Conforto and Flores not Smith/Rosario, Steamer isnt that concerned with the injury.

NYY is Tanaka and Gray over Bird/Hicks

bpd
8 years ago

Yankees have Severino, Sanchez, judge, gray, tanaka, Chapman, gregorious. As their top 7 probably. I’d probably still take that group considering it relies less on arms that either have recently or could soon explode.

jim fetterolf
8 years ago

Royals are in a challenging situation, which rests on Dayton Moore and his mistakes the last couple of years, but KC fans are unlikely to pay too much attention to projection systems. What is Steamer’s record the last several years with the Royals?

Royals look about ten wins worse than last year with equally bad health. Some average health might get them to 75+ wins, so won’t justify foolish FA signings. At trade deadline dumping Herrera, Duffy, maybe Merrifield and Perez is possible, which could turn them into a 65 win team.

oldmanduggan
8 years ago
Reply to  jim fetterolf

Just a handful of obstinate ones who don’t understand what projections are won’t pay attention, amigo. And it’s not just the past couple years of GMDM’s mistakes. It’s striking out in the draft/player development since 2009. The post-Ladnier drafts have been ABYSMAL.

jim fetterolf
8 years ago
Reply to  oldmanduggan

I understand projections just fine, merely noting that they haven’t been worth much with the Royals the last several years.

As for “striking out”, two pennants and a World Series victory look like at least an extra base hit. I’m thinking more in terms of GMDM abandoning the Process for questionable trades and FA signings. Do agree on draft and development, that seems a systemic problem for the team and Moore gets the ultimate blame for that, amigo.

KCDaveInLA
8 years ago

I am squarely in Team Rebuild. As much as I appreciate the Hos/Moose/Cain era, it’s not sustainable even if you could possibly retain all of the free agents. (Although I do wonder if Hosmer did truly figure things out and could be entering a monsterous prime?)

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  KCDaveInLA

When Hosmer hits line drives, he is good. When he doesn’t, he’s replacement level. It is just a lot easier to be great on a year to year basis when you bash 30+ homers a season than 20+ homers. Given that his agent is Boras, I am guessing that unless he winds up on a pillow deal, whoever signs Hosmer is not going to be happy with the value he provides.

Six Ten
8 years ago
Reply to  KCDaveInLA

So there are some changes in Hosmer’s batted ball numbers from 2017. His liner rate will probably regress without swing fixes; his GB/FB was actually higher than ever. One thing that went well was he pulled the ball less. His soft/med/hard contact rates got worse, but that could be because he intentionally conceded some power to stop rolling over so many pulled grounders.

While all that’s kind of interesting, all the margins are too small to draw any firm conclusions. But IF the changes are real, his launch angle probably needs less work than it seemed in the past. Instead of going from rolling over balls to elevating like we might have thought before, he just needs to get hard grounders up enough to more consistently turn them into liners. If those changes aren’t real, he’s going to be the same as he ever was.

Six Ten
8 years ago

There’s another statistic that isn’t present in this piece but is also relevant: WAR produced by players drafted since 2011. The Royals are second-last behind the Rays (improvement! woo!). So not only are the top 5, 6-10, and 11-20 players not good, to the extent there are any good ones they tend to be old. The majors are bare and the cupboard is bare and everything is bare and sometimes being bare is fun but this is not one of those times.

lesjcarter
8 years ago

I enjoyed the “Jorges Soler and Bonifacio” part.

hahigginsMember since 2018
8 years ago

OK but can you share the Cliff Lee Steamer projection??

JoserMember since 2021
8 years ago
Reply to  hahiggins

Still better than most of the Royals, apparently.

Kraken
8 years ago

My bad with Conforto