I Know When Ryan Pepiot Is Going To Get Traded

In January 2011, the Rays traded a good young starting pitcher who was about to get into his expensive pre-free agency years. They received a five-player package that included another good young starting pitcher, who himself went on to pitch well for the Rays for several years. In 2018, they traded that pitcher for a package that included another young starting pitcher, who gave the Rays several good seasons of service. And last week, they traded him for a package that included another promising young pitcher.
It’ll probably be a minute before 26-year-old Ryan Pepiot is ready to buy a house. Interest rates being what they are, even the major league minimum salary doesn’t go as far as it used to anymore. It’s just as well, because he should rent until sometime in late 2026, I suspect.
See, this started as a joke about how the Rays always trade their good young players before they hit free agency. Turns out the Rays are so systematic about this sort of thing that they defy parody.
Since 2006, Andrew Friedman’s first full season as GM, 15 pre-free agency Rays starters have had seasons of 110 innings or more with an ERA- of 90 or better. Three of those — Shane McClanahan, Drew Rasmussen, and Jeffrey Springs — are still with the team, and incidentally are currently recovering from long-term injuries. The other 12 had fascinatingly similar departures. Here they are in no particular order:
| Player | Fate | Tean Control Left |
|---|---|---|
| Alex Cobb | Free Agent | None |
| David Price | Traded | 1 1/2 Years |
| Chris Archer | Traded | 3 1/2 Years |
| James Shields | Traded | 2 Years |
| Scott Kazmir | Traded | 2 1/2 Years |
| Jeremy Hellickson | Traded | 2 Years |
| Matt Garza | Traded | 3 Years |
| Tyler Glasnow | Traded | 1 Year |
| Blake Snell | Traded | 3 Years |
| Jake Odorizzi | Traded | 2 Years |
| Matt Moore | Traded | 3 1/2 Years |
| Yonny Chirinos | Waivers | 1 1/2 Years |
So, yeah, it doesn’t just seem like the Rays trade every good pitcher they develop right as they get expensive. The Rays trade almost literally every good pitcher they develop right as they get expensive.
Here, I’ll reserve judgment both empirical and normative. (For the former, I recommend this 2021 Rob Arthur story from Baseball Prospectus, which puts Miller’s Law of Rays Transactions to the test.) Certainly I have opinions on whether it’s smart and/or righteous to run a ballclub this way, but that’s not really the point. The point is that this is what the Rays do, with alarming consistency.
Of the 12 starting pitchers on this list, 10 departed the team via trade. Of those 10, eight had between two and three and a half seasons of team control left. Just because I was curious, I looked up Victor Zambrano; he had approximately three and a half seasons of team control when the then-Devil Rays traded him to the Mets. The Zambrano trade was a Chuck LaMar special (though Friedman was in the Tampa Bay front office by then), and Zambrano doesn’t meet the quality criteria for this list either, but I know you were thinking about it, too.
Four pitchers weren’t shipped off with between two and three and a half years of team control left: Price, Chirinos, Cobb, and Glasnow. Price lasted half a season past the prime trade window, then fetched an enormous haul anyway, because he was David Jetpacking Price and the normal rules of Rays attrition didn’t apply to him. The other three all had, or were recovering from, Tommy John surgery within the prime trade window. Cobb got hurt at the start of his free agency-minus-three season in 2015, returned to action at the very end of 2016, and got shelled. He was great in his walk year, but by that point it was too late for the Rays to trade him. Glasnow got traded with one year of team control left after missing half of 2021 and almost all of 2022 recovering from UCL reconstruction. And Chirinos got hurt in 2020 and was just never the same.
Chirinos probably doesn’t belong on a list with Snell and Price; his career parallels Jeff Niemann’s more closely. Niemann had one good season followed by two decent ones, but because he pitched at Rice in the mid-2000s, the connective tissue in his throwing arm had been reduced to barbacoa by the time the Rays even got their hands on him. He threw his last pitch in the majors before he turned 30.
In short, there are three ways for a young Rays pitcher to avoid that rigidly scheduled bus out of town: Injury, ineffectiveness, or being David Price. Pepiot certainly hopes to fall into bucket no. 3. We’ll see; in 42 innings in 2023, he posted a 2.14 ERA and 3.1% walk rate. But that low ERA probably got flattened by a LOB% of 99.2. I only bring that last number up because it is so ludicrous; I have never seen a strand rate like that, even in a sample of more than 40 innings.
But let’s say Pepiot turns out to be great in Tampa Bay. Couldn’t he sign an extension? After all, the Rays love nothing more than a pre-arbitration extension. Nope. Just as the Rays traded pitchers who were going year-by-year through arbitration, like Glasnow and Snell, they also traded pitchers who had signed long-term contract extensions, like Archer, Shields, and Moore. Kazmir got traded half a season into a three-year contract, the poor guy. There’s no room for sentimentality in Florida. That’s how you get eaten by manatees.
Tracing Pepiot back to Garza, through Glasnow and Archer, it really hits home that every time the Rays do this, it’s like Mardi Gras for people who enjoy trade tree-type analysis. (“Analysis” here being a euphemism for “nostalgia.”) Not that there’s anything wrong with that; I once watched an entire 41-minute YouTube video on the wide-ranging implications of the 1992 Eric Lindros trade.
| Year | Trade |
|---|---|
| 1998 | Yankees trade Chuck Knoblauch to Minnesota for Brian Buchanan, Danny Mota, Eric Milton, and Cristian Guzmán |
| 2002 | Twins trade Buchanan to San Diego for Jason Bartlett |
| 2007 | Twins trade Bartlett, Matt Garza, and Eddie Morlan to the Rays for Brendan Harris, Jason Pridie, and Delmon Young |
| 2011 | Rays trade Garza, Fernando Perez, and Zac Rosscup to the Cubs for Hak-Ju Lee, Chris Archer, Robinson Chirinos, Sam Fuld, and Brandon Guyer |
| 2018 | Rays trade Archer to Pittsburgh for Tyler Glasnow, Austin Meadows, and Shane Baz |
| 2023 | Rays trade Glasnow and Manuel Margot to the Dodgers for Ryan Pepiot and Jonny Deluca |
And this isn’t the half of it. The Rays make lots of trades, including lots of big trades and trades involving major leaguers going both ways. As a result, these networks extend even further than you might think. Meadows got flipped for Isaac Paredes; Margot was traded for Craig Kimbrel and Emilio Pagán in separate deals; you could go through the ensuing trade that sent Garza from Chicago to Texas and within a couple links come all the way back around to the Scott Kazmir trade. I tried to see if I could connect every player on the list into the same trade tree, but unfortunately, in addition to the players the Rays have never traded in or out, the Snell deal is a dead end.
After a while, something else becomes clear. To borrow a conclusion from the Rob Arthur article: In the early 2010s, the Rays were genuinely getting one over on their trade partners. And occasionally, they’d do it again as the decade wore on; the second Chris Archer trade was just as much of a heist as the first. But the Rays aren’t trading a red paper clip for a house. Increasingly, they’re trading a red paper clip for a newer, cheaper red paper clip and repeating the process for… well, about 20 years so far. And counting.
Michael is a writer at FanGraphs. Previously, he was a staff writer at The Ringer and D1Baseball, and his work has appeared at Grantland, Baseball Prospectus, The Atlantic, ESPN.com, and various ill-remembered Phillies blogs. Follow him on Twitter, if you must, @MichaelBaumann.
This is confusing to me, weren’t both Glasnow and Snell both traded while specifically NOT going year by year through arbitration? Snell had that 5yr 50 million extension he signed after winning Cy in 2018, and Glasnow was on that 2 yr extension with the $25 million locked in for 2024.
Yep, bizarre oversight that undermines the entire premise..
It’s 1000 words to say “Rays trade players a lot.”
I’m fairly sympathetic to the premise of this article but it does seem a bit of an odd way to frame it.
Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story
Spoken like a guy who threw a no hitter on Sept 3 2001
Baumann never argued that the Rays only trade players prior to their Arb-3 year. The article is very specific about saying they trade young pitchers before they get expensive.
The Rays replaced 4 years of team control on Snell (and added a 5th) and while they replaced the last two Arb years for Glasnow.
Your comment does not contradict anything in the piece above.
…
This is totally contradicted, and beyond that, sure the Rays (try to) trade pitchers before they break or get pricier. But the whole bit about “don’t buy” is just weird because almost no players spend their entire careers with one team?
To say nothing of the potential ROI on selling your place when you move. Actually, real estate investments are probably the fate for all the money Stu Sternberg doesn’t spend on player salaries.
Agreed. I would have been more interested in a breakdown of how the Rays structure these deals with what appears to be clear intention of moving the guys.
Focusing on that aspect instead, it makes for good discussion about how they’ll manage their roster and what moves they might make in the future:
And then we also get the fun of trying to apply the above to predicting how they manage arbitration in a couple of excellent pitchers as they come back from TJS:
Top teams in winning% since 2006 (payroll rank)
1. Dodgers 57.9% (2nd)
2. Yankees 57.2% (1st)
3. Cardinals 54.1% (10th)
4. Red Sox 53.9% (3rd)
5. Braves 53.1% (16th)
6. Rays 53.0% (30th)
7. Guardians 51.8% (26th)
8. Brewers 51.7% (23rd)
9. Angels 51.6% (5th)
10. Phillies 50.9% (6th)
In case you are wondering, Mets are 4th in payroll since 2006, but that is partly an artifact of the recent Cohen-aided splurge counting more than teams spending lavishly 15 years ago.
Off topic a bit, but this reminded me that Jerry Dipoto said the Mariners goal was to win 54% going forward. It was indisputably a stupid thing to say to the fans, but perhaps not a bad goal in the real world.
I mean I think it is an accurate long term goal because a high-80s win team will usually be in the hunt for a playoff spot and when it exceeds expectations can win its division
However, right now the Mariners are in a division with 2 teams better than them, and that makes people think it means se ttling for .540 every season. Getting to .540 on average is incredibly difficult – it is the sign of a very strong organization.
Unfortunately theres a certain desperation about online Mariners fans. For some reason i see a really disproportionate number of them on Twitter, and that the Mariners are not Dodgers-level all-in on the fact that they have a reasonably contending roster given their long playoff drought makes them absolutely wild.
I think it’s a little unfair to Ms fans to say they’re upset the team’s not “Dodgers-level all-in.” The current Mariner FO’s record for a free agent contract to a position player is $7 million to AJ Pollock. The Ms aren’t even Diamondbacks or Royals-level all in despite having graduated their first superstar-level position player since 1996. I think some frustration is justified.
Among the many legitimate grievances M’s fan have is that they need to hit their top percentile outcomes just to make it to 54%, and they’ve relied on good luck and pitcher health so far just to remain above the waterline.
In a season in which the AL West is more winnable than ever and in which they have young talent, to see them pulling back and emulating Baltimore is a sad sight indeed. Ms and Orioles fans deserve better than to see their favorite players wearing other teams’ jerseys in the postseason
What if you make the cutoff 2008?
One man’s “just as they’re getting expensive” is everyone else’s “right when they are running out of team control.” How this is framed says a lot about an author and whatever axe they might have to grind. As long as teams aren’t giving up much for rental players, and as long as pitchers can lose all trade value overnight, expect them to be moved a couple of seasons before hitting free agency. I would like to find the team that uses the same rotation year in and year out. Articles like this seem to think that is the norm.
Thanks for posting this article. Good work.
But in the Pepiot Trade Tree, you’ve got the Twins and Yankees mixed up. The Twins traded Knoblauch to the Yankees for Buchanan, Milton, Guzman and Mota.
Seconded. Twins fans threw hot dogs at Knoblauch at the Dome after he left the Twins, not before he joined them (and we still have a limit to the number of Dollar Dogs we can purchase at one time because of it).
I’m not seeing the “increasingly” here at all. What is the evidence for this? Indeed less than a paragraph separates this from a casual-aside mention of Austin Meadows being “flipped” into Isaac Paredes, something most of us would probably not, at this point, call an obviously paperclip-for-paperclip level of value symmetry.
It seems like this kind of actually non-obvious thesis about the relative success of the Rays’ approach over time would’ve been a much more interesting point to try to demonstrate than whatever this column’s thesis is (which as best I understand it is “How about those Rays, folks? They sure make a lot of trades, am I right?”).
I believe his referring specifically to their pitcher trades not their hitter trades.
The thesis is, “The Rays are evil for not running higher payrolls, but they are successful at what they do, so I’m just going to point out how often they trade players and pretend that this is a neutral piece”
Monday’s. They’re not for everybody.
Apostrophes. They’re not appropriate in this usage.
Apropos of the “joke” framing: I’m not sure there’s a time when it actually makes sense to say any active major-league ballplayer “should” buy a house in the city where he plays, given that almost none of them can be anything like sure he’s going to be living in the same place ca. five years from now. (At least if the “should” question goes by this kind of commonplace rule of thumb meant for normal middle-class people, like it does in the article — probably there is a level of wealth where the “should” is ultimately based more on convenience or comfort than whether you’ll come out a few thousand bucks ahead over the long term.)
Many players don’t really want to live year-round in the city where they play anyhow, but even if they did very few have any kind of certainty about where they’ll be working in the near future, between trades, shuttling back and forth to the minors, spring training, and so on. In one of the documentaries about his magical Cy Young year, I can’t remember which one, R.A. Dickey’s wife showed that, over the course of his career, she had developed a system where she could pack their entire house and life into a set of big plastic storage containers within a day if he was traded.
Eh. I think “any” is stretching it, but certainly for like pre-arb guys or end-of-the-roster types? Yeah, don’t buy.
Yeah, this whole pretense is obviously “stretching it” — these middle-class rules of thumb don’t really apply at all to almost anyone who’s earning above MLB minimum salary or playing for more than a year or two, so most of them can just do whatever they want. Even Ryan Pepiot can obviously buy a reasonably nice house in Tampa tomorrow if he wants to, based on future earnings, and just keep it as an investment or an off-season residence if/when he gets traded. But if they did have to follow normal-people rules, none of these guys should buy houses.
“But that low ERA probably got flattened by a LOB% of 99.2.”
Probably?
Dodgers pitchers have a tendency to run higher LOB% than you would expect for some reason or other, but not like THAT.
I’m wondering how many of you out there are in (knowledgeable) on the ‘red paper clip’ back-story/allegory buying process.
Especially since its basically a bunch of nonsense
I always wondered how all those people get eaten by manatees in Florida.
There’s one element that’s missing here: for the first time ever, when Pepiot just starts making big money, they’ll be walking into a NEW stadium which is expected to alter their economics significantly. When that happens, you can expect more spending on pitching overall. Also another caveat is the pending status of Wander Franco. Rays will have the opportunity to redirect that $ to other players.
“the connective tissue in his throwing arm had been reduced to barbacoa” Thank you; this definitely made me laugh out loud *chef’s kiss*
lol didn’t make it far until the next one. You are a wizard with words. “There’s no room for sentimentality in Florida. That’s how you get eaten by manatees.”
Not a very fair article. Of those 15 players, 7 were extended. So while they were traded, free agency was a long way off for several of them.
He specifically discusses that in the article, and he puts all of the years of control left in the table. You can quibble with the points being made, but please at least read the content.
Man, that 2007 trade was already ridiculous when it happened, and it only became crazier with the benefit of hindsight.
More Ray’s pitchers should try being David Price. It’s surprising that only David Price has opted to do that.
Yeah that is what the rays do, keep guys through minimum years and maybe an arb year and then trade for new prospects, graduate them and repeat.
That’s a very simple approach but it only works because their scouting and development is so good that their pipeline never stops.
Interestingly their drafts haven’t been all that great (only snell and lowe look like good first round picks since 2010 -not judging drafts since 2021 yet) but their pro scouting and development is so good that they still developed great teams on a budget.
How are you separating the “good at drafting” from the “good at developing”?