Jacob deGrom, Cooperstown, and the Abstraction of Greatness

Jerome Miron-Imagn Images

I’m a big believer in the value of WAR as a statistic. Like any summary stat, WAR is notably imperfect, with its nods to pragmatism, compromises made on philosophical grounds, and the necessary inclusion of many components that are just damn difficult to quantify even if we have a basis to think they’re important. Still, like all good models, even if WAR isn’t right, it can be useful. It gives us a broad estimate of a player’s overall contribution to winning baseball games, and almost certainly provides a far better conception of which individual actions lead to wins than generally existed, say, 50 years ago. But when we’re talking about whether a player is a Hall of Famer, a more malleable concept than what wins the most games, is WAR the right measure to look at? When I think about this question, four people instantly come to mind: Jacob deGrom, Miguel Cabrera, Jack Morris, and Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart.

Since FanGraphs is a website dedicated to baseball, we’ll start by talking about Mozart. Even people who don’t really listen to classical music, and thus couldn’t tell Gustav Mahler from Rick Mahler, would almost certainly count Mozart among the greatest composers of all time. Why? Well, the first part is obvious: because of his body of work as a whole. But what aspects of that work make him great? I’d submit that it’s the quality of his best compositions, rather than the massive volume of work he produced, that pushes him ahead of his peers.

Mozart is a legend because of his greatest works, such as his last three symphonies, his late 1780s/early 1790s run of operas, and the latter half of his piano concertos — and I could go on! But he also wrote a lot of stuff that just isn’t that good. He was a musical prodigy, but almost all of his early work is interesting because he was very young when he wrote it, not because of its own merits. Composers have always had to pay the bills, and Mozart wrote a huge amount of what was more or less intended to be pleasant background music, no more compelling than the peppy ukulele and xylophone music that seemed to be in every Kickstarter video in 2017. If the hundreds of examples of such work were to simply blink out of existence because someone got a hold of the Infinity Gauntlet, it would change nothing about Mozart’s greatness. Those compositions had value to Mozart in that they enabled him to write the good stuff that is worth remembering, but he’s great because of his peak.

That brings me to Miguel Cabrera. Pretty much every baseball fan was excited to see him reach the undeniably cool career milestones of 3,000 hits and 500 home runs, including me. Cabrera was an all-time great, but I’d argue that his greatness had almost nothing to do with getting 3,000 hits or 500 homers. Indeed, much of what made Cabrera special was accomplished before the 2017 season, a point at which he had yet to reach either milestone. Cabrera was basically just as amazing with “only” 2,000 hits and 400 homers, and the final runs to the 3,000 and 500 marks were a slog, coming when he wasn’t even an average major leaguer anymore.

The same thing applies to Jack Morris, albeit in reverse. He had a long, long career, and almost made the Hall of Fame via the BBWAA ballot, ultimately being inducted by the Eras Committee. But aside from his spectacular performance in Game 7 of the 1991 World Series, Morris was never really a pitcher who dominated opposing teams; he finished with a 3.90 career ERA in an era when a 4.10 ERA would have been league average. Using Baseball Reference’s WAR (you’ll see why in a minute), Morris ranks 149th all-time among pitchers. But using wins above average, or WAA (FanGraphs doesn’t publish WAA, hence the use of Baseball Reference, and Baseball Reference WAR), he ranks just 398th, behind pitchers such as Jarrod Washburn, Danny Duffy, and Mike Clevinger. Paul Skenes already has more career WAA than Morris. WAR exists because we all accept that average players are pretty valuable to teams, and even below-average players can help push a team toward their ultimate goal. In an exercise such as determining who gets to punch his ticket to Cooperstown, however, I don’t think that mediocrity has much value. Washing your hands after going to the bathroom or touching raw chicken is basic hygiene, but I don’t think it should count toward your Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine.

Naturally, I was going to get to deGrom, since his name is in the title of this piece. One reason I find his Hall of Fame case interesting is that it will tell us a lot about how our thinking on what makes a great pitcher has evolved. I wrote about this last year, in a different context. deGrom is nearing 100 wins (he currently has 96), and given his age (he’ll turn 38 in June) and long injury history, he isn’t likely to finish that far above the century mark. And I suspect that there will be some voters who won’t vote for him because of that.

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However, imagine that rather than being injured, deGrom was instead just a not-very-good pitcher for 1,000 to 1,500 additional innings. To get a composite for this, I took every starting pitcher since 1980 with between 1,000 and 1,500 innings pitched and an ERA- between 105 and 115, meaning that the group is consistently below average, but safely above replacement level. That gave me 51 pitchers, who averaged a 69-79 record in 211 starts over 1,233 2/3 innings, with an ERA of 4.59 and an ERA- of 109 (ERA+ of 92). Using ZiPS to project the rest of deGrom’s career, let’s look at where the computer expects the right-hander to finish, and how things would look if we grafted those not-very-good numbers onto his:

ZiPS Projection – Jacob deGrom
Player W L ERA G GS IP H ER HR BB SO ERA+ WAR
deGrom, Projected 122 86 2.82 319 319 1930.7 1514 604 205 447 2248 152 51.8
deGrom, with Grafted Mediocrity 181 165 3.51 531 531 3164.3 2821 1233 356 882 3073 122 64.3

The win-loss record isn’t impressive, but I strongly suspect that the second line — 64 WAR, approaching 200 wins, and more than 3,000 strikeouts — taken together with deGrom’s highlights would get more Hall of Fame support, both from voters and the general public. That baffles me, however; it’s sort of like looking at deGrom’s impressive contributions and thinking “OK, that’s great, but I think he’d have a better case if he had pitched some more like Jeremy Bonderman or Phil Hughes for a time.”

I am already on record as saying that when I consider awards votes, I tend to place a greater emphasis on being better than average than I do being better than replacement level. But we don’t really have a JAWS equivalent that attempts to weigh peak and career excellence relative to average performance rather than replacement level performance. One important reason that JAWS has had an effect on Hall of Fame voting and our perception of players and their Hall of Fame suitability is that the data both exists and is easy to find. So let’s construct just such a number, and see what it tells us about players that is different from JAWS.

As I mentioned, FanGraphs doesn’t have an easy-to-use WAA measure available, so for our purposes here, I’m making a rough measure of 2.0 WAR per 200 innings pitched or 650 plate appearances. Using FanGraphs WAR since 1901 — I want to avoid the messiness of 19th-century baseball for this exercise — I ran JAWS for every player. I then calculated an AltJAWS, using my constructed FanGraphs WAA.

Below are the top 50 hitters and pitchers by both JAWS and AltJAWS, and how they compare. I’ll note in advance since I’m starting with 1901, poor Cy Young takes a bit of a hit here:

Top 50 Pitchers, JAWS (FG WAR)
# Player WAR7 WAR JAWS AltJAWS Rank Diff
1 Roger Clemens 60.69 133.69 97.19 1 0
2 Walter Johnson 59.06 116.42 87.74 5 -3
3 Randy Johnson 64.25 110.45 87.35 2 1
4 Greg Maddux 53.45 116.66 85.06 3 1
5 Bert Blyleven 52.12 102.91 77.52 6 -1
6 Nolan Ryan Jr. 45.67 106.75 76.21 10 -4
7 Grover Alexander 52.49 95.74 74.11 20 -13
8 Steve Carlton 51.08 96.45 73.76 14 -6
9 Gaylord Perry 46.33 100.06 73.20 18 -9
10 Christy Mathewson 53.67 90.14 71.90 17 -7
11 Tom Seaver 51.34 92.37 71.86 13 -2
12 Pedro Martinez 56.16 84.44 70.30 4 8
13 Lefty Grove 49.35 87.37 68.36 11 2
14 Bob Gibson 51.59 82.26 66.92 15 -1
15 Justin Verlander 47.60 84.32 65.96 9 6
16 Fergie Jenkins 51.07 80.07 65.57 23 -7
17 Curt Schilling 49.87 79.83 64.85 8 9
18 Clayton Kershaw 48.02 79.05 63.54 7 11
19 Kevin Brown 49.31 76.55 62.93 12 7
20 Don Sutton 38.91 85.50 62.20 34 -14
21 Mike Mussina 41.58 81.22 61.40 19 2
22 John Smoltz 41.84 79.48 60.66 21 1
23 Phil Niekro 42.23 78.09 60.16 55 -32
24 Robin Roberts 44.04 74.64 59.34 42 -18
25 Max Scherzer 44.02 73.52 58.77 16 9
26 Tommy John 33.72 79.36 56.54 44 -18
27 Roy Halladay 47.30 65.39 56.35 22 5
28 Warren Spahn 38.10 74.46 56.28 77 -49
29 Cy Young 49.07 62.67 55.87 32 -3
30 Jim Bunning 44.28 66.92 55.60 36 -6
31 Jim Kaat 38.64 70.90 54.77 57 -26
32 Hal Newhouser 47.28 59.68 53.48 26 6
33 CC Sabathia 40.01 66.52 53.27 31 2
34 Mickey Lolich 41.02 64.58 52.80 46 -12
35 Rick Reuschel 36.95 68.22 52.58 37 -2
36 Zack Greinke 38.36 66.64 52.50 28 8
37 Juan Marichal 43.81 61.16 52.48 45 -8
38 Andy Pettitte 36.44 68.16 52.30 27 11
39 Eddie Plank 36.34 67.83 52.08 85 -46
40 Sandy Koufax 49.00 54.54 51.77 25 15
41 Bob Feller 41.97 61.42 51.70 61 -20
42 Dazzy Vance 43.22 60.14 51.68 33 9
43 Rube Waddell 47.50 54.69 51.10 35 8
44 Tom Glavine 33.26 66.73 49.99 76 -32
45 Dwight Gooden 43.26 56.72 49.99 29 16
46 Don Drysdale 40.55 59.35 49.95 54 -8
47 Bob Friend 38.31 61.14 49.72 58 -11
48 Eppa Rixey 34.50 64.75 49.62 111 -63
49 Chris Sale 40.96 57.59 49.27 24 25
50 Jerry Koosman 34.52 62.62 48.57 65 -15

Top 50 Pitchers, AltJAWS (FG WAR)
# Player WAA7 WAA AltJAWS JAWS Rank Diff
1 Roger Clemens 42.80 84.56 63.68 1 0
2 Randy Johnson 46.92 69.14 58.03 3 -3
3 Greg Maddux 36.90 66.60 51.75 4 1
4 Pedro Martinez 42.05 56.20 49.13 12 1
5 Walter Johnson 34.54 57.31 45.92 2 -1
6 Bert Blyleven 31.75 53.25 42.50 5 -4
7 Clayton Kershaw 33.26 50.53 41.89 18 -13
8 Curt Schilling 33.72 47.24 40.48 17 -6
9 Justin Verlander 31.94 48.65 40.30 15 -9
10 Nolan Ryan Jr. 27.14 52.92 40.03 6 -7
11 Lefty Grove 29.94 47.98 38.96 13 -2
12 Kevin Brown 32.45 44.01 38.23 19 8
13 Tom Seaver 31.78 44.57 38.17 11 2
14 Steve Carlton 31.83 44.31 38.07 8 -1
15 Bob Gibson 31.68 43.44 37.56 14 6
16 Max Scherzer 29.41 43.92 36.67 25 -7
17 Christy Mathewson 30.56 42.70 36.63 10 9
18 Gaylord Perry 25.20 46.60 35.90 9 11
19 Mike Mussina 26.09 45.64 35.86 21 7
20 Grover Alexander 27.63 43.85 35.74 7 -14
21 John Smoltz 26.55 44.80 35.68 22 2
22 Roy Halladay 30.45 37.92 34.18 27 1
23 Fergie Jenkins 29.83 35.06 32.45 16 -32
24 Chris Sale 27.36 36.78 32.07 49 -18
25 Sandy Koufax 30.94 31.32 31.13 40 9
26 Hal Newhouser 27.65 29.78 28.72 32 -18
27 Andy Pettitte 22.02 35.03 28.52 38 5
28 Zack Greinke 23.40 32.77 28.08 36 -49
29 Dwight Gooden 27.32 28.74 28.03 45 -3
30 Jacob deGrom 24.90 31.04 27.97 88 -6
31 CC Sabathia 24.11 30.78 27.44 33 -26
32 Cy Young 25.21 29.56 27.39 29 6
33 Dazzy Vance 24.25 30.50 27.37 42 2
34 Don Sutton 21.70 32.72 27.21 20 -12
35 Rube Waddell 25.97 28.11 27.04 43 -2
36 Jim Bunning 24.59 29.33 26.96 30 8
37 Rick Reuschel 21.10 32.76 26.93 35 -8
38 Roy Oswalt 23.50 30.19 26.85 63 11
39 Cliff Lee 26.63 26.69 26.66 66 -46
40 Bret Saberhagen 22.17 29.64 25.90 55 15
41 Felix Hernandez 24.80 26.76 25.78 53 -20
42 Robin Roberts 21.98 27.78 24.88 24 9
43 Sam McDowell 26.03 23.63 24.83 57 8
44 Tommy John 17.10 32.29 24.70 26 -32
45 Juan Marichal 23.28 26.10 24.69 37 16
46 Mickey Lolich 20.72 28.23 24.48 34 -8
47 Johan Santana 22.78 25.35 24.06 90 -11
48 David Cone 21.01 27.03 24.02 56 -63
49 Gerrit Cole 21.64 26.38 24.01 95 25
50 Javier Vazquez 22.30 25.31 23.80 62 -15

Top 50 Hitters, JAWS (FG WAR)
# Player WAR7 WAR JAWS AltJAWS Rank Diff
1 Babe Ruth 89.28 163.30 126.29 1 0
2 Barry Bonds 77.18 164.45 120.81 2 0
3 Willie Mays 70.55 149.80 110.17 3 0
4 Ty Cobb 69.17 149.08 109.12 4 0
5 Rogers Hornsby 75.46 129.14 102.30 5 0
6 Ted Williams 72.42 129.77 101.09 6 0
7 Hank Aaron 56.41 136.31 96.36 11 -4
8 Tristram Speaker 61.36 130.20 95.78 9 -1
9 Stan Musial 64.25 126.37 95.31 10 -1
10 Honus Wagner 68.57 120.29 94.43 7 3
11 Lou Gehrig 69.68 115.92 92.80 8 3
12 Eddie Collins Sr. 62.74 120.14 91.44 13 -1
13 Alex Rodriguez 64.46 113.55 89.01 14 -1
14 Mickey Mantle 65.46 112.29 88.87 12 2
15 Mike Schmidt 59.07 106.52 82.79 15 0
16 Mel Ott 54.40 110.12 82.26 17 -1
17 Jimmie Foxx 61.82 101.40 81.61 16 1
18 Rickey Henderson 56.22 106.34 81.28 20 -2
19 Joe Morgan 58.50 98.83 78.66 19 0
20 Frank Robinson 50.77 103.96 77.37 22 -2
21 Eddie Mathews 55.26 96.11 75.68 21 0
22 Mike Trout 63.50 87.16 75.33 18 4
23 Albert Pujols 57.91 89.89 73.90 26 -3
24 Carl Yastrzemski 51.74 94.83 73.28 29 -5
25 Cal Ripken Jr. 53.18 92.51 72.84 27 -2
26 Wade Boggs 56.14 88.34 72.24 25 1
27 Nap Lajoie 57.98 84.45 71.21 23 4
28 Joe DiMaggio 54.36 82.65 68.50 24 4
29 Al Kaline 46.68 88.94 67.81 30 -1
30 George Brett 50.75 84.62 67.68 32 -2
31 Chipper Jones Jr. 46.78 84.62 65.70 34 -3
32 Ken Griffey Jr. 52.85 77.71 65.28 37 -5
33 Jeff Bagwell 49.48 80.21 64.85 31 2
34 Charlie Gehringer 49.36 78.62 63.99 38 -4
35 Roberto Clemente 47.11 80.64 63.87 35 0
36 Adrian Beltre 43.86 83.51 63.69 47 -11
37 Brooks Robinson 45.05 80.16 62.61 51 -14
38 Ron Santo 52.74 70.94 61.84 40 -2
39 Pete Rose 43.38 80.16 61.77 114 -75
40 Arky Vaughan 50.20 72.38 61.29 33 7
41 Johnny Bench 47.36 74.82 61.09 36 5
42 Frankie Frisch 46.90 74.76 60.83 45 -3
43 Paul Waner 44.42 74.82 59.62 66 -23
44 Frank Thomas 46.80 72.06 59.43 56 -12
45 Aaron Judge 56.50 61.56 59.03 28 17
46 Reggie Jackson 43.87 72.75 58.31 75 -29
47 Rod Carew 44.25 72.32 58.29 70 -23
48 Luke Appling 43.56 72.58 58.07 69 -21
49 Gary Carter 46.27 69.40 57.83 52 -3
50 Al Simmons 45.99 69.41 57.70 59 -9

Top 50 Hitters, AltJAWS (FG WAR)
# Player WAA7 WAA AltJAWS JAWS Rank Diff
1 Babe Ruth 74.83 131.88 103.36 1 0
2 Barry Bonds 63.79 125.66 94.73 2 0
3 Willie Mays 56.16 111.21 83.69 3 0
4 Ty Cobb 55.30 108.86 82.08 4 0
5 Rogers Hornsby 61.14 99.99 80.56 5 0
6 Ted Williams 58.65 99.64 79.14 6 0
7 Honus Wagner 55.72 90.62 73.17 10 3
8 Lou Gehrig 54.55 86.20 70.37 11 3
9 Tristram Speaker 47.28 93.31 70.30 8 -1
10 Stan Musial 49.36 87.25 68.31 9 -1
11 Hank Aaron 41.95 93.42 67.68 7 -4
12 Mickey Mantle 51.58 81.80 66.69 14 2
13 Eddie Collins Sr. 48.32 83.11 65.71 12 -1
14 Alex Rodriguez 49.20 75.99 62.60 13 -1
15 Mike Schmidt 45.25 75.56 60.40 15 0
16 Jimmie Foxx 47.80 71.65 59.72 17 1
17 Mel Ott 40.06 75.24 57.65 16 -1
18 Mike Trout 49.25 65.00 57.12 22 4
19 Joe Morgan 44.65 63.97 54.31 19 0
20 Rickey Henderson 42.50 65.27 53.89 18 -2
21 Eddie Mathews 41.13 65.03 53.08 21 0
22 Frank Robinson 36.74 67.83 52.29 20 -2
23 Nap Lajoie 44.88 59.04 51.96 27 4
24 Joe DiMaggio 40.77 59.04 49.91 28 4
25 Wade Boggs 41.05 55.29 48.17 26 1
26 Albert Pujols 43.36 49.76 46.56 23 -3
27 Cal Ripken Jr. 37.82 52.87 45.34 25 -2
28 Aaron Judge 43.13 46.17 44.65 45 17
29 Carl Yastrzemski 37.14 51.78 44.46 24 -5
30 Al Kaline 33.26 53.26 43.26 29 -1
31 Jeff Bagwell 35.23 51.19 43.21 33 2
32 George Brett 36.78 48.85 42.81 30 -2
33 Arky Vaughan 36.21 48.62 42.42 40 7
34 Chipper Jones Jr. 32.63 51.96 42.30 31 -3
35 Roberto Clemente 33.80 49.22 41.51 35 0
36 Johnny Bench 34.02 48.14 41.08 41 5
37 Ken Griffey Jr. 38.97 42.93 40.95 32 -5
38 Charlie Gehringer 34.53 47.12 40.82 34 -4
39 Joe Jackson 37.53 42.93 40.23 62 23
40 Ron Santo 37.92 42.02 39.97 38 -2
41 Johnny Mize 33.22 45.45 39.34 51 10
42 Hank Greenberg 36.28 41.88 39.08 65 23
43 Lou Boudreau 35.40 42.76 39.08 55 12
44 Jackie Robinson 35.22 41.61 38.41 78 34
45 Frankie Frisch 32.94 43.68 38.31 42 -3
46 Oscar Charleston 34.06 42.52 38.29 140 94
47 Adrian Beltre 30.25 46.19 38.22 36 -11
48 Buster Posey 35.16 40.60 37.88 92 44
49 Willie Wells 33.10 42.57 37.84 136 87
50 Scott Rolen 31.23 43.66 37.45 52 2

The natural result of using wins above average is to place a greater emphasis on a player’s peak years, so the guys who get big bumps in altJAWS include Sandy Koufax (40 to 25), Johan Santana (90 to 47), Aaron Judge (45 to 28), and Buster Posey (92 to 48).

Now, is this solution better than what we already have? I can’t really answer that question, as the meaning of the Hall of Fame, even with statistics playing a large part, remains a philosophical exercise. Voters obviously consider more than a player’s statistics, advanced or otherwise. But I do think that Jacob deGrom is a great pitcher who deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, even if he falls short of the innings and win totals we’re used to. You might not be sold. And it’s OK if we disagree.





Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.

19 Comments
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mountmMember since 2020
57 minutes ago

Great article Dan and I am largely in agreement that WAA is the metric of choice when it comes to evaluating Hall of Fame worthiness. If an easy-to-use WAA measure were available on the site I would use it A LOT (David Appelman are you listening?)

I’m a little confused by the Diffs in the second table, they don’t seem to match the values for pitchers in the first table the way that hitters do. Did something get mangled in site rendering or am I just misunderstanding?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
39 minutes ago
Reply to  mountm

I strongly agree with this:

If an easy-to-use WAA measure were available on the site I would use it A LOT (David Appelman are you listening?)

This is absolutely the sort of thing FG should have easily available.

shandykoufaxMember since 2024
35 minutes ago
Reply to  mountm

It’s a difficult stat to calculate, at least if you aren’t from Cleveland:

https://www.sportico.com/business/media/2025/cleveland-cavaliers-the-diff-graphic-meaning-1234829141/