Jered Weaver and the Giant Red Flag

Last night, Jered Weaver took the hill for his second start of the season. It didn’t go very well, as he gave up five runs in five innings and walked twice as many guys as he struck out. But, the game was in Texas and the wind was blowing out, so there were some environmental factors in play, and Weaver’s hardly the only ace who got lit up yesterday. It was a day when David Price, Stephen Strasburg, R.A. Dickey, Johnny Cueto, Chris Sale, Justin Verlander, Matt Cain, Cole Hamels, and Yu Darvish also pitched, and yet the league average ERA for the day was 5.11. A lot of good pitchers got torched yesterday.

But, Weaver’s story is different. Good pitchers are going to have bad starts, and it’s usually not a reason for concern. Weaver’s performance, though, should be cause for alarm in Anaheim, because… well, here’s a graph.

WeaverVelo

Last night, Jered Weaver’s fastball sat at 85 MPH, the slowest average velocity he’s had during the PITCHF/x era. In fact, since the start of 2008, Weaver has only had an average fastball velocity below 86.0 mph three times; his final start of 2012 and his first two starts of 2013.

In those three starts, here is Weaver’s total line: 12 IP, 11 H, 8 BB, 7 K, 2 HR. In those starts, he’s posted a 6.00 ERA/6.25 FIP, and simply hasn’t looked like the Jered Weaver of old. Or, even the Jered Weaver of late last summer.

Last April, Weaver was sitting 88-92, and even throughout the summer, he was regularly topping 90 mph with his fastball. He wasn’t throwing as hard as he did back in 2008 or 2010, when his average fastball topped 90, but he was throwing hard enough to pound the zone and get his usual array of harmless fly balls. He spent a few weeks on the disabled list in June because of a back problem, but even after coming off the DL, he looked just fine for several weeks. But then came the dingers.

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Weaver’s career HR/FB rate is 7.8%, which has allowed him to get away with pitching up in the zone, because all those fly balls that didn’t leave the yard fell comfortably into his outfielder’s gloves. Starting in July, however, the ball stopped staying in the yard. After throwing eight shutout innings against the Orioles on July 7th, Weaver had only allowed five home runs in his first 14 starts, and he hadn’t allowed a home run in any of his previous four outings, spanning a total of 27 2/3 innings.

July 15th, the Yankees hit three long balls off of him, the start of a three month problem with the long ball. Over his final 15 starts, he allowed 15 home runs, and during that stretch, his fastball went from 88 mph down to 86 mph. Continuing the trend out to last night, he’s now lost three miles-per-hour off his fastball over his last 17 outings, and he’s allowed 1.49 HR/9 over 102 innings during that span.

From his MLB debut until July 14th, 2012, he had a career HR/9 of 0.92. His HR rate in his last 17 starts is 61% higher than his career HR rate up to that point.

Interestingly, Weaver left last night’s game with an elbow problem, but it was a strain of his non-throwing arm after falling while trying to avoid a comebacker. The Angels say he’s questionable to make his next start, and it’s possible that he could end up on the DL because of the issue. But, given what Weaver has done over the last few months, and where his fastball has been headed, the more long term concern still has to be the health of his right arm.

Velocity isn’t everything, and velocity loss is not always a sure sign of injury. But, as Bill Petti has noted with his excellent series of articles on the subject over the last year, sudden drops in velocity can be the sign of larger problems. At a minimum, it appears that Weaver’s slower fastball is dampening his ability to give up non-homer fly balls, which has always been his biggest asset. Even if the decreasing fastball speed isn’t pointing towards a more significant health issue, a homer-prone Weaver simply isn’t going to be as effective as he used to be.

The Angels rotation entered the year with significant question marks at the back end, but given Weaver’s performance in his first two starts — coupled with his second half numbers in 2012 — the front of their rotation may be an even bigger concern now. They’ve spent a lot of money building a dynamic offense that is going to score a lot of runs, but they’re going to have to keep opponents off the scoreboard in order to get that line-up into the playoffs. If Weaver either needs an extended break to build his arm strength back up, or if he’s simply not going to able to get his fastball back to where it used to be, then the Angels lack of pitching depth could become a significant problem.





Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.

32 Comments
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Northhampstonstead
13 years ago

I would appreciate follow up reports a few weeks or months after this type of article. For instance, last week we were talking about CC’s drop in velocity. While he had a good line yesterday, his velocity still looked to be down.

Northhampstonstead
13 years ago

I just discovered that FG has automatically generated velocity graphs for each player. Most others may already know this, but for those who don’t, here’s a link for CC: http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=404&position=P&pitch=FA

chuckb
13 years ago

Wow! They have heat maps and game graphs, too! Where was I when this was announced? Was it announced? This is fantastic! Thanks for pointing it out!

Ryan
13 years ago
Reply to  chuckb

I think they refrain from announcing some of these things just to give us unexpected joy in our lives. It’s the baseball version of finding $20 in your pocket.

jim
13 years ago

you guys must be new here

Rob
13 years ago

Verlander’s velocity was way down too. He sat 90-92 vs Yankees and it didn’t increase throughout game. Something to watch.

Eric Cioe
13 years ago
Reply to  Rob

He broke 95 a few times. Velocity not down a ton compared to last season’s first two starts. But yeah, I’m watching it too.

Huisj
13 years ago
Reply to  Eric Cioe

The fastball velocity plot for Verlander is amazing. The lower end is so consistently right around 91-92 it’s like someone was drawing it with a ruler. It’s like he knows exactly how to throw at that speed as his baseline low-end fastball and cranks it up from there as needed.

Jason H.
13 years ago

I think this article could be written for a lot of pitchers. For example:

Verlander: http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=8700&position=P&pitch=FA

David Price: http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=3184&position=P&pitch=FA

Max Scherzer: http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=3137&position=P&pitch=FA

…plus, after suggesting that Darvish now throws harder (despite a distribution pretty much overlapping his career), Darvish is back to his old self: http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=13074&position=P&pitch=FA

philosofool
13 years ago
Reply to  Jason H.

I don’t see any 3.5 mph velocity drops among those three, and all are still comfortably in the low 90s.

philosofool
13 years ago
Reply to  philosofool

Wait, Verlander’s is almost 3.5 down. Sorry.

Still, that might do more to indict Verlander than to save Weaver.

Jason H.
13 years ago
Reply to  philosofool

Why does the drop have to be 3.5 mph? And what does the actual speed have to do with the change? We couldn’t have Weaver both have a velocity drop and still pitch in the low 90’s, since he started in the low 90’s. Similarly, if you average around or slightly over 95 in 2012, then don’t even touch your average in two starts (Price), it might be noteworthy.

…personally, I think the most likely explanation for all of these is that they are just statistical outliers, and that there will be regression with more data. But I don’t think the examples I am pointing out are much different than the Weaver case (or Sabathia).

Dave k
13 years ago
Reply to  Jason H.

This article isn’t about two games. It’s about an overall downward trend over the past couple seasons. Do you not see it and how Weaver’s chart looks different than the other three you pulled? At the very least it is something to keep an eye on.

ineedanap
13 years ago
Reply to  Jason H.

Sabathia, Johnson, Halladay, etc, etc

wiggly
13 years ago

Great article: I love pieces like this that zero in to look at one player. Super interesting information. Thanks!

Basmati
13 years ago

I was panicking a bit until Jason H pointed out other examples. Felix Hernandez is another. Is there a tweak to the radar guns this year? Is this a natural effect for a pitcher of Weaver’s age and innings pitched?

I hope so, our rotation is pretty thin even with Weaver pitching like a Cy Young contender…

momomoses7Member since 2024
13 years ago
Reply to  Basmati

These charts use Pitch F/X data so I assume it wouldn’t be due to a radar gun shift

RainmakerMember since 2016
13 years ago

While obviously 85MPH isn’t going to get it done, Weaver has never been a guy that depends on velocity. You cloud the story by listing his velocity in ranges — over his career his average fastball velocity is at 89.4 MPH and was at 88.7 in 2009 and 88.0 in 2012. Weaver’s success is based on his deceptive delivery; he steps toward the RH batter’s box, than throws across his body, effectively hiding the hiding his release point from the hitter.

I’m not saying it doesn’t matter, but it surely isn’t predictive to say there is “red flag”. Weaver had his worst statistical season the same year he had his highest FB velocity in 2008, and had the most wins last season when he had his lowest average velocity.

If you’re willing to trade away Weaver, I’d gladly take him off your hands…you can have Chris Davis.

Steve Staude
13 years ago
Reply to  Rainmaker

Weaver also has the greatest fastball “rise” (FA-Z) of any pitcher in the PitchF/X era: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=12&season=2013&month=0&season1=2007&ind=0&team=0&rost=1&age=0&filter=&players=0 That’s a big reason why he induces as many popups as he does and therefore holds one of the lowest BABIPs of any starter (0.274).

I’d expect his K% and maybe HR/FB rates to suffer with a decreased velocity, however.

CircleChange11
13 years ago
Reply to  Rainmaker

Weaver’s success is based on his deceptive delivery; he steps toward the RH batter’s box, than throws across his body, effectively hiding the hiding his release point from the hitter.

In combination with arm angle and good control and command as well.

He’s one of the rarish guys that can step across his body (informal term) and still throw a lot of strikes and be repeatable with it.

JW is also throwing a greater % of FT’s (2-seamers) and FC’s (cutters), which are thrown at slightly lower velocities than 4-seamers … so that could account for some of the reduced velocity as well. He’s also pitching more IP/season as compared to the past, so he * could be pacing himself* a little more.

His K/9 numbers are the concern, which could correlate with velocity. But, we’d also need to know whether he’s intentionally throwing with lower velocity at times hoping to get GB’s or more contact, or whether he’s no longer able to throw the ball by batters like he once did.

spored to tears
13 years ago
Reply to  Rainmaker

well, we certainly know who throws harder …

joser
13 years ago

It’s early in the season; it’s not unusual for pitchers to be throwing with a little less velocity in April. What makes Weaver notable is the lower velocity at the end of last season. Just as hitters that seem to take off in September deserve extra attention when it carries over to April, we may want to be extra worried about pitchers whose problems seem to span the end of one season and the beginning of the next. Certainly something that deserves more investigation, anyway.

swainzy
13 years ago

The breaking pitch he dominated with in spring training was not what he showed in that Cubs start. I don’t know if he didn’t have a feel for it or if he couldn’t find a good release point, but as you can see in the highlights from a spring training start against the Mets, the pitch normally has a lot more vertical depth to it.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=25759987&topic_id=26663334&c_id=atl

swainzy
13 years ago
Reply to  swainzy

That’s embarrassing. Wrong article.

commenter #1
13 years ago

weaver’s velocity has declined ever since 2010, and he’s 30. after a stint on the DL last year, and complaining of “total body fatigue” after his final start, i’ve seen him as a collapse risk for quite a while. angel stadium may hide some of it, but it’s only a matter of time

CozarMember since 2020
13 years ago

The announcers during the game mentioned how Weaver went from throwing a 4SFB to a 2SFB to a no-seam FB (which he learned from Scott Shields). Increased reliance on a slower pitch with more movement would explain some of the velocity drop without concerns that it is a loss of power.

B N
13 years ago

I just saw this Fangraphs article cited by ESPN during Baseball Tonight, in the form of “According to Fangraphs…”. Better watch what you say, fellows. You’re on TV! 😉

ineedanap
13 years ago

“”Weaver, who threw three innings in the Angels’ 12-6 victory over Team Italy on Wednesday, said that the team’s training staff has helped work his pitching shoulder back into shape. Weaver is back to throwing at three-quarters — his natural arm slot — after coming over the top for two years.”

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130306&content_id=42367958&notebook_id=42376062&vkey=notebook_ana&c_id=ana

ineedanap
13 years ago

I don’t know about his last start in 2012, or how much this would effect FB velocity, but Weaver was having control problems with his fastballs during his last two starts. Maybe the control issues were affecting his velocity, or maybe his velocity was affecting his control.

ineedanap
13 years ago

“From his MLB debut until July 14th, 2012, he had a career HR/9 of 0.92. His HR rate in his last 17 starts is 61% higher than his career HR rate up to that point.”

Do we “know” that a loss in FB velocity results in an increase in HR rate? Are there other examples of similar pitchers that have a similar increase in HR with a loss in FB velocity?

Steve Staude
13 years ago
Reply to  ineedanap

I don’t know about on an individual pitcher basis, but there is a weak connection between high fastball velocity and lower HR/FB overall (about a -0.1 correlation). I think it makes the most sense in the context of fast pitches being harder to pull (and pulled pitches being likelier to turn into HRs): http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/an-unsolicited-follow-up-study-of-pull/

The connection between velocity and K%, however, is fairly strong: http://www.fangraphs.com/community/index.php/proejcting-babip-using-batted-ball-data