Jonathan Lucroy’s Mysterious Decline
At a table in the center of the visiting clubhouse last week, in the depths of Cleveland’s Progressive Field, Jonathan Lucroy was seated holding his catcher’s glove in his left hand and a flat-head screwdriver in his right. He used the tool to loosen and tighten different laces in the glove. He spent perhaps 20 minutes on glove maintenance that day — a day on which, incidentally, he wouldn’t appear in the starting lineup.
There’s been some focus on Lucroy’s glove recently. Lucroy’s glove, his receiving skills, were once the game’s best. What’s happened to Lucroy’s framing in recent years, however, is something of a mystery.
There have been some stunning declines in baseball over the last few seasons. There was Andrew McCutchen’s age-29 drop-off, unprecedented in its depth for a star-level player, and his cold start to the current season. There’s Jake Arrieta’s decline from Cy Young winner in 2015 to middling starting pitcher since the second half of last season.
Perhaps less apparent, less publicized as these — but still as significant — is what has happened to Lucroy’s framing numbers.
Lucroy was once an elite-level framer. According to the metrics at Baseball Prospectus, Lucroy rated as the game’s No. 1 framer in 2011 (43.5 framing runs). He ranked No. 2 in 2012 (24.4), No. 1 again in 2013 (29.0), and No. 6 in 2014 (14.9). Then a curious downturn began. Lucroy was worth just 1.1 framing runs in 2015 and 4.0 last season. Not bad, but hardly at the same level as in previous year. And that trend hasn’t stopped or slowed or reversed this season. Rather, it has accelerated downward.
This is the third straight season in which Lucroy’s framing has been well below the elite level; now, it has fallen to well below average. In fact, Lucroy is rated as the worst receiver in the game this season. Out of the 81 catchers graded in framing by Baseball Prospectus, Lucroy ranks 81st — yes, last — with -13.3 runs above average to date.
Framing has generally thought to age well as a skill. It’s tied to technique and knowledge more than athleticism, though that plays a role, too. Good framers tend to stay good framers late in their careers. Jeff Sullivan examined Lucroy’s framing decline last season.
Wrote Sullivan:
“Players who look like good framers tend to continue to look like good framers. … It’s against this backdrop the Lucroy decline is stunning.”
And the decline is only increasing in its depth.
Back in May, Ben Lindbergh published an excellent deep dive on the subject for The Ringer. Lindbergh found that Lucroy’s framing decline is mostly tied to the lower third of the strike zone. And in examining data from Baseball Savant’s “detailed” strike zone, the lower portion of the zone appears to be at issue. I examined the 50-50 area — that is, the point at which 50% of pitches are called strikes, another 50% called balls — at the bottom of the zone and examined how Lucroy compared to his peers this season.
In that region, the league has received 11,808 called strikes and 14,562 balls this season, a 44.8% called-strike rate. In that same area, Lucroy has received 213 strikes compared to 391 balls, good for only a 35.2% strike rate.
So what’s going on here?
I approached Lucroy last week to ask him what was behind his struggles. I was curious if Lucroy thought there was something physical or mechanical impacting his receiving.
“Not that I know of,” Lucroy said. “I know what you are getting at. I know my numbers are going down, but when you are trying to quantify that, you are not going to be able to.”
What struck me from the Lindbergh piece was the COMMANDf/x data, which found Lucroy’s average glove height at pitch release has increased in height from 17.8 inches in 2011 (30th in MLB) to 19.3 inches in 2015 (27th) and 21.5 inches last season (25th). When I was covering the Pirates as a newspaperman, when Lucroy was at the peak of his framing powers, then-Pirates catcher Russell Martin gushed over Lucroy. It was an artist appreciating another artist. He said no one captured and presented the lower strike better than Lucroy. He praised Lucroy’s unusual ability to sit deeply in a crouch, seemingly scrapping the ground with his backside. These days, though, Lucroy does not seem to be getting as low in his stance, whether by design or ability. And there seems to be a correlation.

Consider this still frame of Lucroy back in 2012:

He appears to be really, really low. He’s so low his butt appears to be nearly scraping the ground and his lower legs are jutting outwardly at an unusual angle from his knees. His feet are digging into the ground at 45-degree angles. His shoulders even seem to be unusually low, compressed nearer the ground. His eye level is below the belt of the 6-foot-2 Brandon Crawford.
Then consider a setup from a first-inning of a game in May, nearly five years to the date of the previous snap shot:

Lucroy doesn’t appear to be as low in his crouch. His eye level is above the belt of the 6-foot-2 Matt Joyce.
Consider this GIF from later in the same game back in May, from the eighth inning, when Lucroy resets his position rather demonstratively in the middle of the pitcher’s delivery. Is that discomfort?
When there’s a mysterious decline such as this, we often first think about the possible influence of injury, and Lucroy has had a number of injuries in recent years, including a hamstring issue in 2014 and then hamstring strain in the spring of 2015 that forced him to miss more than a month of time. It would be understandable if Lucroy, a free agent to be, did not want to disclose an injury-related reason behind his performance. Maybe there’s an undisclosed purpose for why he has raised his glove height. Maybe it’s difficult to maintain such flexibility later into a career.
I asked Rangers GM Jon Daniels if he had an explanation for Lucroy’s framing decline.
“I think whether it’s receiving, or offensive skill, what gets missed in evaluating players are the challenges that go along with changing teams, different life events, free-agent years that could affect guys,” Daniels said. “I do not know to what degree all that may have an effect. I don’t necessarily think his physical skills have diminished. It would not surprise me if you look up in two years and this was an abnormality, a blip on the radar screen.
“Our guys have looked at, talked about it [the framing decline], but there is nothing we can say we have our finger on as to when or why.”
Lucroy presented a theory to explain his glove’s decline: variables beyond his control.
“When you look at the best framers in the game, look at the pitchers they have,” Lucroy said. “When you look at my best years look at who I had on the staff… Look at all that stuff… You’re only as good as the pitches. Being able to hold the baseball, to have strong hands, it is important. But if they [pitchers] don’t know where it’s going…”
To emphasize the point before his locker, Lucroy reached across his body to grasp an imaginary, off-target pitch,
“I will guarantee you whoever catches Dallas Keuchel has the best framing numbers,” Lucroy said.
You can see the logic in Lucroy’s point: despite below-average velocity, Keuchel has flourished in the majors on the strength of elite command. But the numbers don’t support his hypothesis: Houston catchers actually rate as slightly below-average receivers this season.
Let’s consider his best years in Milwaukee. In 2011, the Brewers ranked second in the NL in pitching WAR (21.1) and had the second-fewest walks (2.75 per nine inning), but were 15th in zone percentage (47.4%). In 2012, Brewers’ ranked sixth in the NL in pitching WAR (17.9) in 2012 but ranked last in zone percentage (46.7%).
In 2011, for instance, Zack Greinke and pre-decline Yovani Gallardo were Brewers pitchers with command who could get a chase out of zone.
But even in 2013, after Greinke had departed Milwaukee, the Brewers again ranked last in zone percentage, had fallen to 11th in WAR (10.0), and Lucroy remained an elite framer.
The Brewers’ staffs of 2015 and 2016 were erratic. This season, the Rangers’ staff has the 11th-most walks issued in the game and ranks 15th in zone percentage (44.6%). Perhaps it’s plausible Lucroy was being affected by missed locations more, perhaps it’s possible that we need more context to evaluate his performance. Pitchers influence the framing ability of catchers. Some catchers have more opportunities to frame. But Baseball Prospectus’ framing metrics do consider and attempt to quantify and account for the quality of pitchers being received.
From the framing metric’s creators Harry Pavlidis and Dan Brooks:
The adjustments derived from the WOWY analysis reflect two aspects of our approach. First, pitchers who throw a pitch that may not fit the norm for a given pitch group may show some difference in the WOWY results (such as hard cutters in the slider/cutter group). Second, pitchers with better command of a pitch than their peers (or the unqualified respect of the umpire) will seem easier to frame.
The WOWY analysis created adjustments ranging from +/- .1 called strikes per opportunity and from +/- .01 runs per opportunity. The largest gross beneficiary of easy-to-frame pitchers was—Yadier Molina. The perennial gold glove winner started the analysis with 127 runs added before giving 60 back to his pitchers. This reflects the command contributions of teammates of the class of Chris Carpenter and Adam Wainwright and is no knock on Molina.
Lucroy has had the sixth-most framing chances in the sport (7,593) according to BP. Texas ranks 15th in pitches in the 50-50, borderline bottom section of the detailed zone at Baseball Savant and ranked fourth last season.
Could it be something else? Could a shrinking lower part of the strike zone be hurting Lucroy disproportionately?
“MLB wants more offense, right?” Lucroy said.
That seems plausible, but it would seem to be a more likely culprit if Lucroy were not raising his glove level. And of all pitches thrown this season, 3.1% have been called strikes in that lower 50-50 area compared to 2.9% in 2015.
There’s also this: perhaps umpires have consciously or subconsciously created a bias against Lucroy since he was one of the framers almost universally praised when the merits of pitch framing were widely publicized in the early 2010s. Perhaps he’s a victim of his own early success.
Lucroy did not rule out subconscious bias but declined to talk about umpiring in detail.
When I was still with the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Randy Marsh, the director of MLB umpires, told me he does not share framing metrics of catchers with umpires, and he does not ask them to study individual catchers.
Interestingly, Yadier Molina, who also had a long reputation as an excellent framer, has seen his numbers decline since 2014, and ranks 27th with 0.6 framing runs this season. Buster Posey has declined to 35th (0.1) after ranking first last season (26.5 runs). Madison Bumgarner can’t be that valuable, can he? So there might be some credit to the idea of a catcher’s reputation preceding him.
That said, other elite receivers like Yasmani Grandal and Russell Martin continue to receive well, according to numbers.
Lucroy’s receiving slump doesn’t seem to be some sort of random variance. It seems very real. The Rangers are reportedly interested in moving Lucroy and are surely regretting the deal that sent Lewis Brinson and Luis Ortiz to Milwaukee for Lucroy prior to last summer’s trade deadline.
Sources: #Rangers open to moving Lucroy, going with Chirinos & Brett Nicholas, who currently is at AAA. Lucroy free agent at end of season.
— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) July 2, 2017
#Rangers need bullpen help. Highly unlikely to make Lucroy qualifying offer. Chirinos under club control through 2019.
— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) July 2, 2017
It seems fair to wonder where his value is without framing. It’s fair to wonder what his market will be this offseason. It’s fair to wonder if the magic of his glove will ever return.
A Cleveland native, FanGraphs writer Travis Sawchik is the author of the New York Times bestselling book, Big Data Baseball. He also contributes to The Athletic Cleveland, and has written for the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, among other outlets. Follow him on Twitter @Travis_Sawchik.
I also wonder if his reputation as a good framer hurts him. Maybe umpires are less likely to believe a borderline strike because Lucroy has a reputation of “tricking” the umpires.
Why would umpires gang up on Lucroy, but let other noted framers continue to be successful?
“There’s also this: perhaps umpires have consciously or subconsciously created a bias against Lucroy since he was one of the framers almost universally praised when the merits of pitch framing were widely publicized in the early 2010s. Perhaps he’s a victim of his own early success.”
I doubt that a lot. Umpires are just reacting, I don’t think there is any time to consider external factors. Wouldn’t this just happen to every elite catcher?
“perhaps umpires have consciously or subconsciously created a bias”
The operative word is subconsciously. That implies they are not taking time to consider external factors.
The operative word could also be “or” depending on your reading comprehension. Wouldn’t this effect be universal if it were true?
Not a good look for Lucroy. Both the numbers and the quotes.
Right, didn’t Montero just get demoted and traded for saying something pretty similar?
Yes, exactly..
sometimes, Being silent is better than good excuses.
the catcher who receives balls from Darvish and Hamels ,though Hamels is not a guy who we used to know anymore, doesn’t deserve to take any excuse on pitcher’s command.
All of this, and we haven’t even mentioned his bat… Surely an odd, sudden, and step decline.
He has had two monster years and all mediocrity in between. This should not be all that unexpected based on his career. Both of his big years have come in good ballparks – which can help transform mediocre into above average – which is elite for a catcher… Catching just takes such a physical toll on the body that I don’t think anyone should ever expect consistency from a catcher. This is when we should all appreciate Buster Posey or even what Mike Piazza was.
on the one hand you say he had “monster” years offensively and all mediocrity in between and say it shouldn’t be “unexpected” but at the same time use this argument as a knock against the framing numbers as you say “the primary symptom of a sick metric when people bounce from extreme to extreme”
I didn’t edit my post, I just wrote it. I could have used more consistent terms, but I didn’t. You are correct, especially if you want to pick two or three words out of the post. Monster for a C is .280 BA and 18 HR, which is well within the realm of possibility for any everyday player in a good environment.
I think your point would be more valid if I was using a metric to say that Lucroy was a monster, which I didn’t. The bar for offensive production out of a catcher has literally nothing to do with catcher framing numbers.
His .280, 18 HR season was his 4th best offensive season.
Lucroy’s wRC+ vs catchers starting in 2011
11 – 92 v 92
12 – 135 v 95
13 – 116 v 92
14 – 133 v 93
15 – 94 v 85
16 – 123 v 87
17 – 75 v 89
Being a catcher is hard on your body. It makes sense that at least for some catchers, it would be hard to stay that low as you get older.
The strike zone mostly expanded down below the knees during the last years. Lucroy used to be exceptional at getting the low strike, but always rated rather badly on high pitches.
There are only so many runs to frame when a pitch just below the knees gets called a strike 80% of the time instead of 30%. With the high heat returning it seems like his problems are two-fold: not being exceptional on the lower end anymore while having trouble covering the upper part of the strike zone where more pitches are being thrown these days.
Seems like a similar deep dive into Molina and especially Posey’s declines might produce helpful comparisons and shed light on assume of your theories.
Or maybe framing numbers are a lot more noise than they had originally thought?
This.
Very well written piece. Thanks Travis.
I would lean toward injury given the overall drop in production, and the migration away from that painful looking receiver’s stance. Would really like to see a further analysis of the stances from the other declining receivers you’ve noted, and compared to the ones whose skills have remained intact.
In a world of questionable metrics, catcher defense has to be the worst. Guys like Derek Norris go from bottom of the barrel to elite in a year. That is the primary symptom of a sick metric when people bounce from extreme to extreme. The metric attempts to measure a skill – skills shouldn’t change that much or that frequently… unless you are measuring the wrong things. Rather than blame Lucroy, blame the metric. Just because people want to measure it, doesn’t mean that we have the tools or methodology to do it. I have spent years as a catching instructor and I don’t have any illusion that a machine will ever be able to evaluate catching outside of pop times, raw numbers and rates.
you are nitpicking and if you had invested the time to read about all of the great pieces that are publicly available you’d have known that the year-to-year correlation is actually pretty strong.
Lucroy, Posey, Molina, Norris, etc. Maybe it is time to change the narrative, and give pitchers a lot more credit for framing?
So Grandal continues to be an elite framer. Grandal also has the greatest pitcher of our era, and an excellent staff all around. The only person who really gives STRONG credence to the argument is Martin. Can’t he just be an outlier?
Well Tyler Flowers is the best at framing by far this season according to baseball prospectus… the braves pitching staff ranks 26th in WAR
Yet he was merely above average last year.
nope. 6th best in the league seems better than merely above average.
I would venture a knuckleballer gets well above average framing numbers, just because the ball is coming in so slow and moving so much.
I don’t think WAR can be used in any way as a proxy for “easiness to frame.” I remember when Cleveland had Justin Masterson and Roberto Hernandez, I was curious if you had swapped a good framing catcher if there would’ve been improvement, because both of those guys, sinkerballers who would didn’t seem to even throw to a general side of the plate, seemed to be impossible to frame. How do you frame a 95 mph sinker that the pitcher and catcher don’t know where it’s going except hopefully somewhere near the plate and not bouncing in the dirt? Someone on that staff like Josh Tomlin though would’ve been easier to frame. That doesn’t mean that Josh Tomlin was anywhere near as good as Masterson at his best.
I don’t doubt that there are better pitch framers in general among catchers, but I think there are also particular pitchers who will benefit from the framing skills more than others. And likely catchers are better at framing some types of pitches and not others so a guy who’s good with one staff might not be good with all pitching staffs
To me the metric seems simple enough. Strikes that called balls are bad. Balls that are called strikes are good. To me there’s nothing wrong with this in terms of being a metric.
You can argue that catchers don’t really have the ability to control this and therefore it’s not Lucroy’s fault he has looked bad now when he has looked better earlier. Perhaps that’s true. But if that’s teh case you should just argue there’s no such thing as pitch framing and that all catchers are mostly equally good but they look better or worse simply due to luck. Similar to babip for example.
The biggest problem is that this is 100% based on third-parties – umpires and hitters. This is about umpires doing their job inaccurately and none of that matters if the batter swings at the close pitch.
Right. The problem is that people are assuming that the metric is all driven by catcher skill, when they have no basis for this belief.
RonnieDobbs:
From the piece above:
“ According to the metrics at Baseball Prospectus, Lucroy rated as the game’s No. 1 framer in 2011 (43.5 framing runs). He ranked No. 2 in 2012 (24.4), No. 1 again in 2013 (29.0), and No. 6 in 2014 (14.9).”
And even though AC_Butcha_AC is getting downvoted for some reason, his comment about the year to year correlation being strong is accurate whereas your claim about it being a metric with dramatic swings is not true historically. I imagine that your “years as a catching instructor” motivate you to downplay the significance of these figures.
What history? A few years? I can’t imagine how bad the data is going back a few years. I honestly don’t get what you are saying outside of the rankings that you cited. Derek Norris is a true historic example… or Lucroy for that matter. I am sure there are lots more. One thing that people don’t seem to want to acknowledge is that a single counter-example disproves a theory. I get that this isn’t a theory, but the logic still applies. Pointing out problems is how you make progress. Any metric is going to consistently float the top C to the top – you could use innings caught and Yadi and Posey are at the top of that list as well. Sure there would be some garbage in there, but that is the case with this metric as well. It is a crude metric, not worthless but crude.
No, you’re the one singling out isolated examples and pretending that they represent the whole. As I said, it’s most likely because as a former catching instructor you feel defensive about metrics being used to assess catching performance. Research has consistently confirmed that pitch framing has a strong year to year correlation, although Jeff Sullivan noted that the correlation isn’t as strong as it used to be. Please read this also: http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/SSAC15-RP-Finalist-Who-is-responsible-for-a-called-strike.pdf
Nice n=1 story, jbolick…
I opened this expecting to see a post on his offense.
As a Rangers fan, I wish you were catching for Keuchel right now too, Jon.
The part where Lucroy is talking about Keuchel and says that he probably has the best framing, the author of this article just cops out and says that Astros catchers are below average framing. Those numbers are for catching an entire staff of pitchers. Lucroy has a point- what are Keuchel’s numbers for extra strikes? Other pitchers with good command?
Frankly I’m surprised that after all this time we’re still saying that it’s the catcher who is getting these strikes. I view framing like a caught stealing- it’s mostly the pitcher. Pitcher has good command = extra strikes. Poor command = lost strikes. Add in a good dose of umpires being inconstant. I mean, why did we decide the catcher is the person of value in this equation and not the pitcher and umpire? To me that’s like giving the caught stealing percentage to the infielder receiving the catcher’s throw on stolen bases.
Strikeouts and other effects of bonus strikes are already attributed to the pitcher.
BTW, do read the reference to “with or without you” analysis. These framing numbers do try to account for pitcher.
I can’t understand why so many people in the comments section are suggesting this because that really doesn’t make any sense at all. Framing is focused on outcomes, not inputs. Try to think of every single pitch through in major league baseball that ends up at a specific X, Y coordinate. We’re looking at all pitches that ended up in the same location, then measuring how many of those were recorded as strikes versus how many were recorded as balls. It’s certainly reasonable to say that a pitcher with good command would hit X, Y more often than a pitcher with poor command, but that’s not relevant to what percentage of the pitches that end up at X, Y are recorded as strikes.
The primary determinant in whether or not the umpire calls a pitch at X, Y a strike or a ball is his perception of its location in relation to the strike zone. The size and positioning of the batter certainly affect that given that they affect the location of the strike zone. Framing also affects that, as a glove moving downward to secure a low pitch creates a perception that the pitch is lower than one in the exact same location that was received without the glove moving at all. It’s the catcher’s positioning and the movement of his body that have the largest impact on framing. The author even included images demonstrating that Lucroy is noticeably higher in his set now than he was during his years as a superior framer, so I cannot understand why people like you insist on pretending that catcher’s don’t have much to do with it and that it’s somehow attributable to the pitcher, especially since other analyses have long since disproved that framing has much to do with the pitcher.
The biggest influence on glove position and movement is whether or not the pitcher misses his mark and by how much. The pitcher’s command is a huge influence on framing – which is something pitchf/x cannot track. So not only does Prospectus’ numbers ignore something I view as vitally important to the equation, they’re also basically ignoring the umpire as well. I just cannot take their numbers seriously.
You’ll never get me to believe that the catcher is the primary person of influence in this equation. Can he influence a called strike? Sure. But he can only present a target to the pitcher and then catch the ball where it is thrown. Blaming the catcher because he has to move his glove to catch a pitch that his pitcher threw in the wrong spot? It just doesn’t make logical sense. Some influence does belong to the catcher, but he is not the primary one at fault here.
At least Baseball Info Solutions has commandf/x and can correct for this in their framing numbers. So I’ll give DRS some weight when it comes to framing. But it’s very difficult to take Prospectus’ numbers seriously.
No, the biggest influence by far is where the catcher sets up. If the glove begins outside of the strike zone and doesn’t move at all, meaning that the pitcher perfectly hit his mark, that is not going to be called a strike.
If you’re admitting that you will never be swayed regardless of what anyone says or how much data is provided to prove you wrong, then this really isn’t a discussion is it?
jdBolick it is about WHEN the pitcher hits x,y and it is called a ball because he misses his target, and his reputation for doing so. There was an article on here, I cannot find it off hand but it showed how many strikes Chapman gets called balls. The reason is that he misses the glove by a lot frequently, and the catcher cannot catch it without stabbing at it…those are never called strikes. There are a lot of variables. The biggest I would say is how much the pitcher misses the target by. But throwing harder works against getting pitches framed, because those pitchers are harder to frame, etc.
Pitchers with good command get more calls – that is just how it works. As Duran says below, you can’t frame something that you have to reach for either. Some pitches are more framable as well – good luck framing a slow curve-ball or a splitter. Some pitches are swing and miss offerings and some are meant to paint the corners. The pitch mix is another variable that the catcher can’t control. Hell, an umpire with allergies would be an influence…
Catchers have a lot to do with it, but to not acknowledge all of the variables is naive.
Research has consistently shown that catchers have far more to do with it than the pitchers do, despite you and others stubbornly insisting otherwise. Please read this: http://grantland.com/features/studying-art-pitch-framing-catchers-such-francisco-cervelli-chris-stewart-jose-molina-others/
What research was presented in that article? It was just Lindbergh promoting pitch framing for the 20th time that season — as if no one had ever considered the concept before. It was all he could talk about back then.
Show me some current research that proves catcher framing is a very stable skill while properly controlling for the pitcher.
http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/SSAC15-RP-Finalist-Who-is-responsible-for-a-called-strike.pdf
I’m an Indians fan and I’m so happy Mejia remained an Indian. Imagine this guy on the Indians now and Roberto Perez is better than him? Thanks for nixing the trade Rangers catcher.
I suspect there is a regression model to be built for “extra strikes called”, in which catcher framing ability is a big independent variable but other factors (like pitchers who throw “frameable” pitches) are also in there.
How many “frameable” pitches a pitcher throws would only be relevant to how many opportunities a catcher has to demonstrate framing ability. No catcher gets penalized for receiving a higher than normal percentage of pitches that don’t get called strikes regardless of who is behind the plate. Framing metrics compare rate performance of catchers on pitches that are sometimes called strikes and sometimes called balls. Imagine that two pitches pass through the exact same path and end up in the exact same location along the lower portion of the strike zone. One was caught by a catcher whose glove moved sharply downward when receiving it while another was caught by a catcher whose glove moved slightly upward. Which pitch do you believe will be called a strike more often?
When I looked at his batting numbers (especially the lost slugging) and the pics of his catching posture the thought that came to mind was: stiff back.
If he has a bad back, that’s not something he’s going to admit to in a contract year. But it’s also not something he can change.
Debating pitcher effects on framing while he is a noticeably different catcher is kinda like overlooking the obvious.
He would likely get a bigger contract if he was on the DL most the season, because at least then they could guess what he can do when he is healthy. Now that he is playing every game, he is killing what he can expect to recieve.
I also see stiff ankles in the more recent pics. His old stance: he kept his knees wider with all his weight on his ankles, allowing him to get low. Now, his toes are forward, limiting the space he can drop his butt between his feet. My guess is that tight hamstrings are affecting other joints. Catching and goaltending (hockey) are not good on the body.
Tony Pena was the master of getting low and used all sorts of creative set-ups.
Maybe the style of pitchers also affect catching framing. In those early Milwaukee days, Lucroy’s battery mates included Gallardo, Estrada, Fiers, and Peralta who are very “over the top” guys. In Texas, he has Darvish, Hamels, and Perez, who I would not classify as “over the top”.
Great piece, Travis. Really enjoyed it.
It sounds like you’re right on the money with that crouching theory, and I imagine that such an extreme crouch would be something that Lucroy would have had to abandon as he got older.
Perhaps it’s just a special extreme case with Lucroy’s technique, or maybe catcher framing goes into decline more than we thought. After all, only now are we actually getting significant data from declining catchers that were analyzed back in their primes since we first started measuring catcher framing not that many years ago.
Benny Santiago used to catch sitting on the ground, one leg underneath and one stretched out towards 1B. He had enough arm to throw runners out at a high rate and he was agile enough to pop up and catch popups. It was less stress on the knees.
As he got older he did it less and less until he stopped.
The arm was still strong but the back…
Catcher careers typically end relatively early. Fisk and Rodriguez being notable exceptions.
The Lucroy trade to Cleveland fell through because Cleveland would not guarantee he would be the primary catcher. Apparently their plan for him was 1b/Dh the way Santana and victor Martinez went as catching started to wear them down.
An absolutely beautifully written article.Great read! Lucroy will most likely regress back to the mean. I would have expected him to be back in the top 5 of pitch framers before having read this article,not anymore.
Great, thoughtful article. I’m assuming the elevated stance changes in the picture are representative of most others you looked at this year and not just a one game blip? Going that low can’t be easy on the body, and I’d have to think discomfort and/or nagging injuries are a more likely cause of these changes than ump bias (even though its clearly a route worth considering, or a factor in play).
Like others above, I don’t like him throwing his current pitching staff under the bus; even if it were true it looks bad – and clearly indicates that he’s frustrated. He could’ve framed it as a “control” versus “stuff” thing and said much the same.
Nice article, but could you post pearson’s r for glove height/framing runs from 2012- on?
“It would be understandable if Lucroy, a free agent to be, did not want to disclose an injury-related reason behind his performance.”
That’s not understandable. If teams knew you were doing poorly due to a injury, they’d be willing to a. Hence on you. If you were doing poorly and everyone thinks you’re old and washed up then that’s going to be worst for you once on the market.