Let’s Freak Out About Vladimir Guerrero, Jr.

Big expectations — and building anticipation — can bring out the need for immediate results. Vladimir Guerrero, Jr. had humongous expectations given his lineage, his prospect status, and the utter destruction he wrought on minor league pitching. His name made him known earlier than other prospects without Hall of Fame fathers, but his play declared him ready for the majors last year, with some desiring a May call-up and the player’s union mentioning him by name last September when he remained in the minors. Through 10 games, Vladimir Guerrero, Jr. has not produced, but then, even super-duper prospects who are almost completely unlikely to bust sometimes don’t hit well for 10 games.

Given the expectations, it’s easy to call a .162/.244/.189 slash line with a 23 wRC+ disappointing. It is disappointing. Just like the 29 wRC+ Paul Goldschmidt has put up over the last 14 days. Or the 35 wRC+ from Corey Seager during the same time period. Mitch Haniger’s wRC+ over the last two weeks is a measly 49. Ronald Acuña Jr.’s is barely better at 51, with Jose Altuve just ahead at 56. It’s possible the latter numbers have escaped your attention. It’s okay to have missed them or to even have known about them and ignored them because we know they aren’t an accurate representation of the talent level these players possess. But when a player comes up from the minors for the first time and doesn’t break out immediately, second thoughts can creep into the backs of our minds about can’t-miss prospects who missed.

If you want to worry, here’s some ammunition. Since 1995, there have been 19 position players who were ranked first or second by Baseball America coming into the season when they made their debut. Of those 19 players, Vladimir Guerrero, Jr.’s 23 wRC+ over his first 41 plate appearances is only better than Alex Gordon’s. Here are those 19 players’ numbers with their names omitted for the time being.

Top Prospect Debuts Over Their First 40 PA
PA HR BB% K% BABIP AVG OBP SLG wRC+
41 3 17.1% 7.3% .481 .485 .585 .848 271
40 4 7.5% 27.5% .318 .297 .350 .757 180
44 3 13.6% 29.5% .409 .316 .409 .632 179
41 2 7.3% 19.5% .393 .342 .390 .632 172
41 2 12.2% 12.2% .345 .343 .415 .629 166
42 0 19.0% 21.4% .458 .333 .476 .455 165
42 2 2.4% 14.3% .406 .385 .405 .615 163
44 1 4.5% 22.7% .452 .357 .386 .548 144
43 3 14.0% 34.9% .316 .243 .349 .568 125
42 0 14.3% 9.5% .290 .265 .381 .441 125
43 2 14.0% 18.6% .259 .243 .349 .459 119
42 0 0.0% 26.0% .500 .359 .366 .462 118
40 2 10.0% 30.0% .273 .222 .300 .444 100
40 0 2.5% 22.5% .333 .256 .275 .359 59
42 1 7.1% 21.4% .207 .179 .238 .308 52
45 0 4.4% 35.6% .296 .186 .222 .256 25
44 2 9.1% 15.9% .097 .125 .205 .300 23
41 0 9.8% 26.8% .231 .162 .244 .189 23
40 1 0.0% 35.0% .193 .111 .200 .194 4

The number of players above might appear low given that there have been 25 prospect lists with 50 players ranked first or second; even taking away the pitchers, there have been a lot more than 19 top position player prospects over the years. But about half of the potential players were eliminated because teams gave those players a taste of the majors in the year before they were ranked first or second. What should stand out is that most players who have been rated as one of the very best prospects in the game do really well in their first 10 games or so. Their median wRC+ is 125 with an average of 116; 13 of the 19 players hit at an average level or above.

So what does it all mean? Nothing. Here are those players’ performances over their net 600 plate appearances after their first 40 in the big leagues.

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If these players’ first 40 plate appearances had any bearing on their next 600 plate appearances, it doesn’t really show up here. In their first 40 plate appearances, the top eight players averaged a 111 wRC+, while the bottom seven players averaged a 110 wRC+. The top half produced three below-average hitters; the bottom half produced four while also producing the best player in the bunch. Maybe the next 600 plate appearances aren’t enough, though. Here are the career numbers compared to the first 40 plate appearances, keeping in mind there are a few players without lengthy careers shown.

Again, a scatter plot devoid of meaning. Two of the top-five career wRC+ figures, and two of the top-three with at least three years in the majors, came from the bottom four debuts. Conversely, of the eight best debuts, only three found themselves in the top-eight for career numbers and none were the three-best starts.

We’ve compared these players’ debuts to their next 600 plate appearances as well as career numbers, but now let’s compare their first 600 plate appearances after their first 40 to their career numbers.

There is a pretty clear relationship here, as the we can see a diagonal line moving upward from left to right. How a player performed in his next 600 plate appearances after his first 40 did a pretty good job of forecasting his career. Now you might be saying that it’s not really fair to look at the debut and compare it to the career, and then compare a full seasons worth of plate appearances to career numbers. Of course the relationship is going to be better; it is a lot more playing time. If you were to say that, I’d think you were getting the point I’m trying to make.

Here are the relevant numbers for all the players above, as well as both Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Fernando Tatis Jr.

Top Prospect Debuts
Player Year AGE PA BB% K% BABIP AVG OBP SLG wRC+ Next 600 wRC+ Career wRC+
Jay Bruce 2008 21 41 17.1% 7.3% .481 .485 .585 .848 271 88 107
Andruw Jones 1996 19 40 7.5% 27.5% .318 .297 .350 .757 180 81 111
Jason Heyward 2010 20 44 13.6% 29.5% .409 .316 .409 .632 179 133 108
Ronald Acuña, Jr. 2018 20 41 7.3% 19.5% .393 .342 .390 .632 172 136 138
Joe Mauer 2004 21 41 12.2% 12.2% .345 .343 .415 .629 166 116 122
Kris Bryant 2015 23 42 19.0% 21.4% .458 .333 .476 .455 165 132 140
Delmon Young 2006 20 42 2.4% 14.3% .406 .385 .405 .615 163 93 96
BJ Upton 2004 19 44 4.5% 22.7% .452 .357 .386 .548 144 110 98
Bryce Harper 2012 19 42 14.3% 9.5% .290 .265 .381 .441 125 128 139
Pat Burrell 2000 23 43 14.0% 34.9% .316 .243 .349 .568 125 108 117
Evan Longoria 2008 22 43 14.0% 18.6% .259 .243 .349 .459 119 146 120
Rocco Baldelli 2003 21 42 0.0% 26.0% .500 .359 .366 .462 118 95 98
Fernando Tatis Jr. 2019 20 40 10.0% 30.0% .273 .222 .300 .444 100
Matt Wieters 2009 23 40 2.5% 22.5% .333 .256 .275 .359 59 87 93
Mike Trout 2011 19 42 7.1% 21.4% .207 .179 .238 .308 52 160 172
Byron Buxton 2015 21 45 4.4% 35.6% .296 .186 .222 .256 25 72 78
Mark Teixeira 2003 23 44 9.1% 15.9% .097 .125 .205 .300 23 113 127
Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 2019 20 41 9.8% 26.8% .231 .162 .244 .189 23
Alex Gordon 2007 23 40 0.0% 35.0% .193 .111 .200 .194 4 95 105
Prospects Ranked first or second by Baseball America headed into the season when they made their debut.

Nearly all the players above have had at least good careers, with some considerably better than that. It might be slightly disheartening to see some top prospects who didn’t quite pan out the way they were expected to, but for the most part, these players have done quite well. Acuna, Bryant, and Buxton still have a ways to go in their careers and Buxton still has a lot of time to improve his numbers, but it should be comforting to know that Mark Teixieira and Mike Trout started their careers in similar fashion to Vlad Jr. and turned out just fine.

If you are still looking at the list and trying to parse and make meaning of these early numbers from Guerrero, I will grant you that there was some relationship between walk rate and the next 600 wRC+, as well as the career numbers. If you are trying to spot a potential bust in this group after 40 plate appearances, which you shouldn’t do, you might look to walk rate. The table above is sortable. If you sort by walk rate, you will find six players with walk rates lower than 5%. Those six players also happen to be the bottom six players in terms of career wRC+. The walk rates of both Guerrero and Tatis are around 10%, well above that mark.

In sum, debuts come in all shapes and sizes and for players like Guerrero, how they perform in their first 10 games or so has little bearing on how they ultimately will do in their careers. Guerrero has hardly seen any pitches to hit in the last couple weeks, but he has yet to chase outside the zone at a high rate. He might not have a track record at the major league level to lean on, but he does have a track record, and it says he will hit. Panic if you must, but you are likely to look foolish very soon.





Craig Edwards can be found on twitter @craigjedwards.

58 Comments
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southie
7 years ago

Just popping in to give props for using humongous. Great word.

DoctorPayne
7 years ago

I’m not particularly worried about the results of his first 40 PAs, but I am worried about the approach he’s displayed so far. His at-bats have looked truly horrendous, and that’s backed up by the limited data we have about them (70%+ ground balls, ZERO barrels as per Statcast). Better days are ahead, but he has LOOKED really bad, which to me is a lot more worrying than an ugly small-sample wRC+.

Chaise Kahlenbeck
7 years ago
Reply to  DoctorPayne

I think the 70% ground ball rate gives reason for optimism. He’s still hitting the ball decently hard, but his average launch angle is -6.5 degrees (!!!). His minor league ground ball rates have consistently hovered around 40%ish and he’s the type of hitter that will adjust.

It’s just not likely that this continues with everything we know about him.

Drew FairserviceMember since 2016
7 years ago
Reply to  DoctorPayne

I’m surprised to see someone say his at bats have looked horrendous, because I don’t see it that way at all. He takes a lot of tough pitches, seems to have a solid plan at the plate.

The numbers you support with are more outcomes than process. I think his at bats *look* fine, and the results will improve as he gets himself into more hitters counts.

BlueJaysBlackboard
7 years ago
Reply to  DoctorPayne

Really? Zero barrels? Can’t be bothered to go look it up, but I was at his debut, and the one we all thought he lined over the wall looked an awful lot like a barrel! Not doubting it’s officially zero, but that ONE ball at least was a laser, if not technically a barrel.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
7 years ago

Also, he’s 20.

There’s a lot for Blue Jays fans to be anxious about, given how much of their hopes are wrapped up in Guerrero. But this is probably the one thing Blue Jays fans shouldn’t be worried about.

Worry about the front office’s tendency to trade guys when they no longer have value, or for low-ceiling MLB types, or how bad Grichuk’s extension is going to look, or whether Aaron Sanchez will ever return to being good, or whether Bo Bichette will deliver…don’t worry about this.

EasyenoughMember since 2016
7 years ago

What a crazy discontinuity between a walk rate of 4.5% and 7.1%! I expected something much more linear.

dukewinslowMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  Easyenough

It sort of suggests a hidden moderator. Like that 4.5% captures something we aren’t observing.

dl80Member since 2020
7 years ago

Interestingly, only 3 guys on those lists are should-be or will-be Hall of Famers: Trout, Jones, Mauer.

Three more had good to very good careers, but clearly below HOF level: Teixeira, Gordon, Longoria.

Two more had decent careers but were never true stars for very long: Burrell and Upton.

Two never really put it together: Delmon and Rocco (I also think Buxton will go here when he’s done).

And 3 more came out like gangbusters and flamed out to being almost useless within 5-6 years: Wieters, Bruce, Heyward.

Several others have a chance at maybe someday making the Hall: Bryant, Harper.

Acuna, Tatis, and Vlad Jr. are obviously too young to know anything about.

This obviously isn’t a representative sample, and almost all of these guys had useful, productive careers of some length (Baldelli was a fluke illness and Young was never as good as scouts thought he was).

So the top prospects are almost always going to be decent. At most, 6 of the 13 who we know enough about were stars or superstars. The rest were so-so or great for 5-6 years (the drafting team was happy!) and done.

I can’t decide if that’s a good ratio or not given the difficulty of scouting teenagers.

Kevin Grimes
7 years ago
Reply to  dl80

I came to say that I thought ‘almost useless’ after their first 5/6 years was pretty harsh for Wieters, Bruce, and Heyward… but looking at their WARs I guess I have to mostly agree. I might have gone with ‘merely adequate’ instead, but… quibbling. Heyward has been a fine lower-tier starter, Bruce had a good 2017 and nothing else, and Wieters undid his okay 2016 with his 2017.

carterMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  dl80

Also minor quibble, Buxton looks to be putting it together this year. He leads the entire MLB in % of hits that are XBH and is 2nd in the league in doubles in 34 less PA. He also has the largest change in fly ball percentage. Despite only 1 HR thus far, I’d feel like a few of those balls absolutely will start leaving the yard. His babip seems low for his speed, and he is buried in the 9 spot, but with as well as Twins hit that might not change. Regardless, after admitting they manipulated his service time last year, they aren’t giving up on him. I’d love to see him traded, but I still think with his defense he ends up with 20+ career WAR.

dl80Member since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  carter

I do think he could end up with 20 WAR, but over 12 or more years. That’s fine, but nothing special given his prospect lineage. Like opposite day Pat Burrell.

As I’ve been trumpeting for 3 years, Buxton’s problem is that he can’t hit righties. Every time he goes on one of these hot streaks, it’s just buoyed by him crushing lefties. That’s great, and “Lefty smasher + great defense” can be a starting quality player. Maybe even a little better. But not a star or much more than average.

His K:BB ratio against righties is a little improved this year, and the power against them is way up. So it basically comes down to whether you believe that to be the new normal. Even still, he’s just a 99 wRC+ against righties.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  dl80

If he’s an average hitter against righties, while crushing lefties, he’s a 4 win player with his defense and baserunning.

It’s not necessarily sexy…but it’s Shane Victorino.

FrancoeursteinMember since 2020
7 years ago

I think he’s a 4 win player with below average offense. If he’s average against righties and above average against lefties, he’d be closer to the 6 WAR territory

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  dl80

That’s not fair to Rocco. Dude’s body completely betrayed him.

Also…Harper’s well ahead of where Mauer was at the same age, and is only 20 fWAR behind him on his career.

Sonny LMember since 2017
7 years ago

Baldelli had 2.5 healthy years in the league and put up 8 WAR. Delmon had one season worth more than 1 WAR and finished his career in the red.

Hard to know how people respond to coaches but Buxton and Baldelli have remarkably similar profiles. Whether that helps Buxton find another gear is anyone’s guess.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  dl80

I wouldn’t call bruce useless, he had an injury riddled 2018 in which he was terrible but since 2011 he has hit 30+ homers in 5 seasons and he is quite likely to do that again this year (11 already).

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  Dominikk85

He’s cracked 1 WAR just once in the past 5 seasons, by both forms of WAR.

Fredchuckdave
7 years ago

Eloy’d

MikeSMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  Fredchuckdave

I’m much to busy freaking out about Eloy to freak about about Vlad.

It’s almost like hitting major league pitching is significantly harder than hitting minor league pitching!

Pousse-Pousse
7 years ago

I’ve looked over his numbers to find the discrepancies between his MLB and minors stints. The most glaring is his crazy high groundball rate in the majors (73%!) versus the minors. He’s also striking out more than twice as much compared to the minors. His BABIP is like 100 points lower than what he typically had in the minors, too.

So, he’s striking out more, and when he does hit the ball it’s typically on the ground to a defender.

Let’s break down the two issues more. As for strikeouts, his swinging strike rate (9.0%) is not bad–50th compared to qualified hitters. There’s no minor league comparison for these stats, but he’s not swinging and missing to a terrible degree. He’d be 41st in O-Swing% (25.2%), so he’s not swinging at too many balls outside of the zone. A problem is that he’s not making much contact with the balls outside the zone (O-Contact = 61.8%), ranking 93rd among qualified hitters. One of the craziest stats that may help explain his issues to-date is that he is getting fewer pitches in the zone that almost any qualified hitter (37.3%). Only Willson Contreras, Javier Baez, Nelson Cruz, and Eddie Rosario are seeing fewer pitches in the zone than Vladito (and Vlad’s walk rate is actually better than all but Contreras). Also pretty notable is that he is hitting 90.6% of (the few) balls that are in the zone, which would put him second (!) in the majors among qualified hitters. The strikeouts seem to be a exclusively a function of him swinging at pitches out of the zone–he’s not swinging at a horrible number of these pitches, but it seems he should be swinging even less.

As for the balls he does hit, he is hitting them kinda hard. If he qualified, he’d rank 23rd in the majors for lowest soft contact rate (11.5%), but he’d be only 60th in hard contact rate (42.3%). He’s probably getting a little unlucky, but he could be hitting the ball harder and in the air more.

It seems to me that the issue with Vladito is that he’s maybe too eager to make a splash and MLB pitchers are exploiting that by not giving him anything to hit. He’s smacking everything that’s in the zone, but those pitches are few and far between. And he’s getting a little unlucky on the balls he is hitting. He probably just needs to settle down, be more patient, and take more pitches.

IsBrittonInYet
7 years ago
Reply to  Pousse-Pousse

This is really good. Additionally, as @james_in_to said on twitter, there have been 1516 player seasons in the past 3 yrs where a player has seen at least 150 pitches. Of these, Vlad jr ranks 1516th in the percentage of pitches seen over the heart of the plate (14.3%) according to baseball savant. He’s played a game since but this is still wild. And as someone who’s watched most of his PAs, he’s just getting pitched super tough with pitchers painting their spots against him. This doesn’t tend to be a point that’s generally made in regards to short slumps, but maybe sometimes players just get unlucky and they have a week of two of near-perfect pitching to deal with.

carterMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  IsBrittonInYet

Great comment. When you combine that with a guy obviously pressing you can be quite concerned.

beasterMember since 2018
7 years ago
Reply to  IsBrittonInYet

I came to say exactly this! Also, it seems like the pitchers are getting the borderline strikes. Vladdy takes a pitch low and away that looks just off the plate both ways for a called first strike, then is forced to extend his strike zone and strikes out swinging on a pitch in a similar location but further off the plate. The stats don’t back it up but his eye looks legit to me.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  Pousse-Pousse

I agree. He always was a bit of a ground ball hitter at high 40s during most of his milb career but he shouldn’t be that extreme long term.

dl80Member since 2020
7 years ago

So many owners and GMs are going to point to these first 40 plate appearances as evidence the next time they want to keep a sure thing down to manipulate service time. I can practically feel their joy from here.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
7 years ago

Btw I like to look at K-bb and not just walk rate to spot bust potential.

Low BB isn’t ideal but with some pop and good contact at can work (daniel murphy, jose altuve).

When it becomes dangerous is a low walk rate paired with an elevated k rate.

This is why vlad is so safe. He currently whiffs a lot in mlb and some K gain in mlb is normal but he still has a history of a 1 to 1 b to bb rate, so even if his milb 10% walks 10% ks becomes 8% walks and 14% Ks that still plays great with his power. He likely just needs to adjust to mlb pitching quality which can take a few weeks or months.

Tatis on the other hand has a higher bust potential with his almost 20% k-bb rate in the high minors. I still think he will be fine because of the position and power but the chance to become a true elite hitter with both 30+ homers and a 300+ BA is much higher with a single digit K-BB.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  Dominikk85

If you look at guys like trout, bregman, jose Ramirez, votto they all have low single digit K-BB rates. To be fair guys like yelich and JDM hat double digit K-BB rates but they are also not as consistent as the prior guys. And only two guys in the top20 in wRC+ had a 15+ k-bb rate

Tea_Wreck
7 years ago

Was anyone looking at Altuve on the tanking Astros and worried he wasn’t hitting up to expectations? I don’t think BP considered Altuve one of the top 5 Astros players under 26 until he’d been a 2x All-star.

RonnieDobbs
7 years ago

Service time manipulation!

evo34Member since 2023
7 years ago

Very interesting how well the first ~600 MLB PA have predicted top prospects’ careers recently. I wouldn’t have guess such a tight relationship. Basically, if a stud prospect has a very bad first full season, it is definitely time to panic.

SucramRenrutMember since 2017
7 years ago

Anecdotally it looks like umps are certainly not doing him any favors. I have seen a lot of bad called strikes that put him behind in the count. I think he is being just a bit too tentative and the ball is getting a little too deep on him leading to well struck ground balls.

Huron
7 years ago

I bet a friend of mine $10,000, indexed to inflation, that Vlad’s total career fWAR will be less than 20. So far, I’m feeling pretty good. Pretty good.

BenjaminMember since 2019
7 years ago
Reply to  Huron

Weird flex, but you definitely have a gambling problem.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  Huron

This is a good way to lose friends and/or money.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Really, it’s a perfect lose-lose situation.

Michaer
7 years ago
Reply to  Huron

I bet a friend $10,000, indexed to inflation, that you did not make this bet with anyone.

dl80Member since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  Michaer

I bet a friend $10,000, not indexed to inflation, that there will be robot umps by 2200.

Huron
7 years ago
Reply to  Michaer

I’ll be happy to provide you with proof.

John Autin
7 years ago

Tacking on a few bad starts who turned out okay …

Ray Fosse (a #7 overall draft pick) thru age 22 had a 22 OPS+ in 142 PAs. The next year, an All-Star with MVP votes.

Amos Otis thru age 22 had a 31 OPS+ in 168 PAs. Then he got traded (d’oh!), and was an instant All-Star.

Ben Zobrist thru age 26(!) ran a 33 OPS+ in 303 PAs. Two years later, All-Star & WAR leader.

Kelly Gruber (a #10 pick) thru age 24 had a 41 OPS+ in 181 PAs. Took a couple years, but he became an All-Star and MVP candidate.

Joe Rudi flat flopped his first 3 trials, with a 44 OPS+ in 372 PAs (!!) thru age 22. All-Star the next year, twice an MVP runner-up.

Phil Nevin (#1) had a disastrous rookie year, 44 OPS+ in 179 PAs. Took a while, but he figured it out.

Robin Ventura had a bad cup o’ joe, then that famous 0-for-40-some early in his rookie year, giving him a .143 BA and 1 HR through his first 134 career PAs. Topped 5 WAR the next 3 years.

Tris Speaker thru age 20 had a 64 OPS+ in 146 PAs. His HOF self appeared the next year.

dl80Member since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Phil’s son looks pretty good with the Rockies, too (up and down this year, but still only 21).

bjoakMember since 2020
7 years ago

The problem is that the media (and Fangraphs is not innocent in this) told everyone to just wait to see the fireworks. I believe it was this very site that said, “No one thinks he won’t hit” with regards to him not being brought up. Now maybe the intent was over a career or whatever but it sure sounded like right now. It was irresponsible. Everyone slumps as noted in this article and highly touted rookies don’t always start rocketing grand slams in every at bat.

Curacao LL
7 years ago

“In sum, debuts come in all shapes and sizes and for players like Guerrero…”

That’s what concerns me. His shape and size does not bode well medium-term.

feslenraster
7 years ago

Tommy LA Stella stole his mojo? How do you explain his success?

Great analysis and it’s way too early to panic.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
7 years ago

Is it safe to say that he’s the closest thing we’ve had to a can’t-miss offensive prospect since…Jesus Montero?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
7 years ago

I don’t really think of Montero in the same category as Vlad was–he was more in the same category as Eloy Jimenez. Everyone was pretty sure he would rake, but I don’t think anyone would have called him “can’t miss.”

I think Vlad is probably the closest thing we have to a can’t miss offensive prospect since Bryce Harper, and before that you probably have to go back to A-Rod. Beyond that, I’d guess Pat Burrell and the Upton brothers were the “next most hyped” as guaranteed offensive forces. Mauer belongs somewhere in there too. There were some questions about Delmon Young’s attitude, so I’m not sure he was seen as “can’t miss,” but I wouldn’t blame anyone who put him on that list as well.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I’m talking pre-2010, 169 wRC+ with 11.7 K% as a 19 year old between A+/AA, #4 prospect in baseball with no position, Montero.

BA said “Montero hasn’t delivered completely on his raw power, but he’s close to projecting as an 80 hitter with 80 power on the 20-80 scouting scale,” and they called him the “best hitter in the minors,” with Stanton and Heyward the only two players ahead of him on the list.

HughesMember since 2016
7 years ago

There’s some good reason that 40 PA doesn’t map very well, but the 600 seems to look a lot better. Digging up something that might have been missed/overlooked/forgotten, jump to the bottom for the gist of where I’m going: https://library.fangraphs.com/principles/sample-size/

I’m also taking with a grain of salt that they might have longer lead times with start of career.

At 41 PA, we’re over half way one of the stats, and the only stat I’m starting to get concerned about, K% where he is at 26.8%. Having seen several of these plate appearances, he’s not offering at lots of balls along the edge of the zone. The eye-test is being confirmed by a low z-swing%, but I don’t know enough about the approach.

Sometimes he’s been robbed by the on-screen strike zone graphic. Sometimes he’s fallen victim to being lured after some repeat offerings that break hard. Considering his ~13% high over the other levels, I’m going to give this a fair bit more rope.

Antonio BananasMember since 2016
7 years ago

can we freak out that he probably weighs 270?

Knoblaublah
7 years ago

Willie Mays’ first ten games: .139/.239/.333.

Knoblaublah
7 years ago
Reply to  Knoblaublah

Mickey Mantle’s first ten games: .211/.268/.289.

Knoblaublah
7 years ago

Conjecture/question: of everyone on the list, did Vlad, Jr. and Gordon have the worst sets of hitters as teammates and does that matter?

HughesMember since 2016
7 years ago
Reply to  Knoblaublah

A good question. And follow up, is there and how big are teammate effects on wRC+?

Knoblaublah
7 years ago
Reply to  Hughes

Or at least on rookies. I believe that previous studies have shown that who surrounds a hitter in the order may not matter, but it seems possible that even the most talented and confident rookie could be affected by being surrounded by good or not-good hitters.

Baseball Analyzed
7 years ago

It’s not a big enough sample size to call Vlad a bust. He clearly has the talent to be an all-star. He also has hit poorly in all of his games in the Majors.

carterMember since 2020
7 years ago

I know it sounds crazy, but how much rope does he have? Like, there is no way they let him hit this poorly through 100 at bats, right?

Hurtlocker
7 years ago

I was surprised that a 20 y/o looked kind of Pudgy and out of shape. That body shape doesn’t bode well for his future.

John Autin
7 years ago

To comments on Vladito’s weight — Prince Fielder’s listed 275 pounds on a 5-11 frame didn’t keep him from having a terrific prime. Maybe the weight contributed to his sudden fall, but most prospects would gladly take Fielder’s career.