Let’s Talk About the Jays’ Promising Projection

The 2017 season was a disheartening one for the Blue Jays. After back-to-back trips to the ALCS in 2015-16 — their first two postseason appearances since 1993 — they faceplanted out of the gate, losing 11 of their first 13 games. They never reached .500, going an improbable, Sisyphean 0-8 in games that would have evened their record. Amid injuries to Josh Donaldson, Russell Martin, Aaron Sanchez, Troy Tulowitzki and others, not to mention the collapse of Jose Bautista, they finished fourth in the AL East with a 76-86 record, their worst showing since 2013. This winter, they stayed out of the deep end of the free-agent pool, making a few low-cost additions plus a handful of trades that hardly qualified as blockbusters. Yet as of Opening Day, they were projected for 84 wins, the league’s fifth-highest total. What in the name of Cito Gaston is going on?

To these eyes, the Blue Jays’ projection is like the flip side of the Brewers’ one that raised my eyebrows a few weeks ago. Recall that the Brew Crew quickly turned around from their rebuilding effort and won 86 games last year while remaining in the NL Wild Card hunt until the season’s final weekend. They added Lorenzo Cain and Christian Yelich over the winter, and didn’t lose anyone of importance save August acquisition Neil Walker, yet their projection called for just 78 wins.

As for the Blue Jays, when one considers that they had the majors’ oldest lineup (weighted average age of 30.9 years according to Baseball-Reference), and that even with the jettisoning of Bautista, all of this year’s projected regulars save two are on the wrong side of 30, it’s at least worth wondering why our projection system (which is driven by Steamer and ZiPS but with manual judgment in terms of distributing playing time) is so keen on them.

As I did for the Brewers, here’s a position-by-position comparison between our Depth Charts (as of March 29, Opening Day) and last year’s splits. All rankings are AL-only:

Blue Jays, 2017 vs. 2018
Position 2017 WAR AL Rk 2018 WAR AL Rk Dif
C 0.3 15 2.7 4 2.4
1B 3.1 6 2.3 5 -0.8
2B 0.3 12 2.4 8 2.1
SS -0.4 15 2.2 9 2.6
3B 4.9 1 6.2 1 1.3
LF 0.3 13 1.5 8 1.2
CF 2.0 10 2.9 6 0.9
RF 0.2 14 1.9 6 1.7
DH -0.6 7 0.9 10 1.5
SP 10.7 7 13.4 6 2.7
RP 5.8 5 3.3 7 -2.5
Total 26.6 39.7 13.1
2017 data is actual splits by position, 2018 is depth chart estimates as of March 29.

The first thing to note is how distressingly godawful the Jays were at so many positions last year. In terms of WAR, they ranked among the league’s bottom four teams at five positions, including dead last at catcher and shortstop, and received 0.5 WAR or less from six different positions including DH, with a net of 0.1 WAR for those half-dozen spots. Only at first base (Justin Smoak) and third base (Donaldson) did they receive significantly above-average work; in the latter case, that was despite the majors’ top third baseman playing just 104 games at the position due to a calf strain. Thankfully, they also received above-average production from their pitching staff, without which they might have been relegated to the independent Canadian-American League.

Even with their relatively modest offseason, the Blue Jays are projected to improve by at least two wins in four spots, by at least 1.5 wins in two others, and by 0.9 to 1.3 wins in three others. They’re projected to fall back only in two areas, albeit with both remaining in the middle of the AL pack.

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As our staff has gone in depth at each of these positions within our positional power rankings, I will be a bit more brief in running through the biggest changes, positive and negative.

Catcher

In his age-34 season, Martin matched the previous year’s wRC+ (an even 100) despite a modest .221/.343/.388 line. However, his 91 games represented a career low, as he served stints on the disabled list for nerve irritation in his shoulder as well as an oblique strain. He started just 78 times behind the dish and another nine at third base in Donaldson’s absence. While his body of work was worth 1.8 WAR, his backups (mainly Luke Maile, Miguel Montero, and Raffy Lopez, with a bit of Jarrod Saltalamacchia, and Mike Ohlman thrown in) netted a combined -1.5 WAR, primarily by “hitting” a combined .155/.216/.267. Come back, J.P. Arencibia, all is forgiven!

Martin is expected to provide similar offense and defense over a larger swath of playing time in 2018. His projected 447 PA is 22% more than last year, but down about 17% relative to 2016, a fairly age-appropriate adjustment for a player who’s been durable enough to qualify for the batting title (502 PA) six times in 12 major-league seasons. Maile, their top backup, and the rest of the backstop bunch is projected to be merely replacement level, which would be a vast improvement over last year’s gaping vortex of suck.

Second base

For the third year out of four, Devon Travis was the Blue Jays’ Opening Day second baseman, and this time, hopefully the outcome will be different. In his previous three years, Travis has averaged just 71 games due to injuries, most notably a left shoulder problem that required 2015 surgery and a bone bruise in his right knee that ended his 2017 season. The now-27-year-old has been productive when he’s played; his 5.3 career WAR in 880 PA prorates to 3.6 WAR in 600 PA. His projection, for 413 PA, is less sanguine (1.5 WAR), but that’s still more than one win better than the team’s output at the keystone in 2017.

What’s more, the Jays have upgraded their insurance policy by acquiring versatile switch-hitter Yangervis Solarte from the Padres. While the knock on Solarte during his years in the minors pertained to his glove, he’s demonstrated enough competence at second base, shortstop, and third base to come within a few runs of average at each. He projects to provide 1.0 WAR in 300 PA spread across those three positions, including 0.6 WAR at second, which would be a substantial upgrade on last year’s -0.3 WAR provided by Darwin Barney and Ryan Goins.

Shortstop

As Solarte is to Travis, ex-Cardinal Aledmys Diaz is to Tulowitzki, a stronger insurance policy than Barney, Goins, and Richard Urena were able to provide in 2017 (net -0.4 WAR as shortstops). The difference is that Diaz has already been pressed into service, as Tulowitzki began the year on the 60-day DL and, on Monday, underwent surgery to remove bone spurs in both heels.

Limited to 66 games last year by a hamstring strain and an ankle sprain, Tulo was merely replacement level himself due to a 78 wRC+. He’s projected for 341 PA, about 30% above last year’s total, and a modest 1.5 WAR, with Diaz and Solarte adding another 0.7 WAR in 283 PA here. That’s with Diaz projected for just an 85 wRC+; he hit .300/.369/.510 for a sizzling 133 wRC+ as a rookie (and NL All-Star) in 2016 before slipping to .259/.290/.392 (78 wRC+) last year. If he can recapture some of that old mojo, he could further the Jays’ gains here, even if the man they intended to hold the position for remains on the sidelines, as he has all too often in his 13-year career.

Rotation

Marcus Stroman, J.A. Happ, and Marco Estrada combined for 532.1 innings and a very solid 8.9 WAR last year, and together, they’re projected to occupy a similar footprint with similar production (8.1 WAR) in 2018. Meanwhile, the rest of the cast, which combined for just 1.8 WAR out of the rotation (1.1 by holdover sixth starter Joe Biagini, who is being stretch out at Triple-A Buffalo) is expected to more than double that value.

Aaron Sanchez, who produced 3.8 WAR while leading the AL with a 3.00 ERA in 192 innings in 2016, was limited to eight starts totaling 36 innings last year due to a maddening middle-finger blister problem that sent him to the DL four times. He’s projected for just 137 innings and 2.1 WAR in 2018, but that’s 2.1 more than last year’s goose egg. The other big addition is 31-year-old lefty Jaime Garcia, who split 2017 between the Braves, Twins, and Yankees, compiling a 4.41 ERA, 4.25 FIP, and 2.1 WAR in 157 innings. He was Toronto’s biggest free-agent addition, signing a one-year $10 million deal that includes a $2 million buyout on a $10 million club option for next year; he could also earn another $2 million in incentives.

Though Garcia has endured just about every major arm surgery known to man, his 127-inning projection is probably underselling him, as he’s averaged 25 more than that over the past three years. Again, though, his projected 1.4 WAR would be a boost over what the likes of Brett Anderson, Mike Bolsinger, Francisco Liriano, et al. provided.

Right field

The Bautista era did not end well. After signing a one-year deal that paid $18 million for 2017, with a $17 million mutual option and $500,000 buyout for 2018, and a vesting option for 2019, the 36-year-old slugger slumped to a sub-replacement level season, hitting .203/.308/.366 with 23 homers but just an 80 wRC+ and -0.5 WAR. Turning down their end of the option was a no-brainer for the Blue Jays, and in January, they traded pitchers Dominic Leone and Conner Greene to St. Louis for Randal Grichuk, who had fallen out of favor in St. Louis to the point that he was demoted to Triple-A for the second year in a row.

The 26-year-old Grichuk has tremendous power, but also very little command of the strike zone. Last year, he homered 22 times in 442 PA, albeit with strikeout and walk rates of 30.1% and 5.9%, respectively. His .285 OBP was the NL’s fourth-lowest mark among players with at least 400 PA — and it was hardly a fluke, given his .289 the year before, and .296 for his career. But for as hacktastic as he is, he’s also an above-average defender, with a UZR/150 of 3.5 in center field (where he has the most innings) and even higher in left and right. Even if he doesn’t improve his approach at the plate, he’ll be a significant upgrade on end-stage Bautista. He’s forecast for 1.9 WAR overall, including 1.6 WAR in right field — again, that’s a two-win upgrade overall.

Bullpen

This is the one area where the Blue Jays are expected to take a significant step back, mainly because they lost two of their three most valuable relievers, trading Leone (70.1 IP, 2.94 FIP, 1.5 WAR) and Joe Smith (to Cleveland on July 31, after he delivered 1.0 WAR). Much of the drop is a bet on substantial regression from closer Roberto Osuna, from 3.0 WAR to 1.6. In his age-22 season, Osuna struck out 83 and walked just nine in 64 innings en route to a 1.74 FIP, the third-best mark among relievers with at least 50 innings behind Kenley Jansen and Craig Kimbrel. He owns a 2.68 FIP through 209.2 career innings but is projected to regress to 3.12 in 2018, because that’s what projections do. It’s not worth worrying about.

Elsewhere, Danny Barnes, Aaron Loup, and Ryan Tepera have all returned, while John Axford, Seung Hwan Oh, and the well-traveled Tyler Clippard have joined via some free-agent bargain hunting; they’re guaranteed $5 million between them. Oh can earn another $1.5 million with incentives and can vest a $2.5 million club option for 2019 with 70 appearances. He’s begun the year in a setup role, and while he is forecast for just 0.3 WAR, the 35-year-old righty is just one year removed from a 2.13 FIP, 2.6 WAR debut with the Cardinals. If he can recover the delivery that made him so dominant in 2016, he could be a real asset.

***

Those are the big changes. I’ll assume you don’t need me to walk you through the more-or-less offsetting ups and downs of Smoak and center fielder Kevin Pillar, and for now, I’ll take the Blue Jays at their word that Donaldson’s Opening Day throwing woes are the result of a dead arm — muscle fatigue — and not a larger structural issue that could send all of Canada into a funk. Elsewhere, the addition of 37-year-old Curtis Granderson (signed to a one-year, $5 million-plus-incentives deal) to a platoon with Steve Pearce is a relatively low-wattage one, but even the Grandyman’s 0.8 WAR projection is 1.3 wins beyond what the departed Ezequiel Carrera gave them. Granderson still has the power, patience, and defensive ability to be a two-win regular, so it wouldn’t be a surprise if he steals time from Grichuk, as well.

The overarching point is that, while the Blue Jays have brought back a very similar, and relatively old, cast of characters, they’re a deeper team than they were before, one better able to handle the outages from Tulowitzki and Travis and whoever else — not Dodgers deep, but then, who is? Between that and a promising rotation, it’s not hard to see them challenging for a Wild Card spot even with the Red Sox and Yankees looking quite strong. And hey, if things don’t pan out, top prospects Bo Bichette and Vlad Guerrero Jr. are right around the corner.





Brooklyn-based Jay Jaffe is a senior writer for FanGraphs, the author of The Cooperstown Casebook (Thomas Dunne Books, 2017) and the creator of the JAWS (Jaffe WAR Score) metric for Hall of Fame analysis. He founded the Futility Infielder website (2001), was a columnist for Baseball Prospectus (2005-2012) and a contributing writer for Sports Illustrated (2012-2018). He has been a recurring guest on MLB Network and a member of the BBWAA since 2011, and a Hall of Fame voter since 2021. Follow him on BlueSky @jayjaffe.bsky.social.

38 Comments
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Kibber
8 years ago

thank you for the post
now we just need you folks to pay attention to the Raptors too

southie
8 years ago
Reply to  Kibber

Ugh. See

Maggie25
8 years ago
Reply to  Kibber

Baseball writers don’t write nearly enough about basketball teams, it’s true.

Jetsy Extrano
8 years ago
Reply to  Maggie25

Which staff member could make #NotBaseballGraphs work… Jeff? Roger Cormier?

southie
8 years ago

This is way too sensible for an article about the Blue Jays

IMW
8 years ago
Reply to  southie

What does this mean?

phealy48
8 years ago
Reply to  IMW

Exactly.

IMW
8 years ago
Reply to  phealy48

*nods sagely*

MoonrakerMember since 2025
8 years ago
Reply to  southie

You’re used to reading Sportsnet?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago

I don’t think anyone disagrees that the team is likely to perform better than last year, when they were 76-86. It’s just that when you have a team where you are projected to be average at every position except third base (where you are great) and DH (where you are a black hole) it’s hard to say you’re that much better than average. That, and who knows if Tulo is even going to play this year, let alone be good.

The best thing they have going for them is that it’s hard to see any other team emerging as a strong favorite for the 2nd wild card spot, although I’m partial to the Angels making it for irrational reasons.

Damaso
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I dunno. “average at every position but elite at one” seems like a recipe for being solidly above average to me.

RotoholicMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Above average at C, 1B, CF, RF, SP and 3B. And Donaldson is the top 3B in the league so merely saying “above average” is understating the value, there. Also, boiling down starting pitching to just one position understates the fact that it contributes about 1/3 of the team’s total WAR. They’re “only” 6th which sounds like it’s barely better than average, but it’s 2 WAR above the league median, which is significant. It’s the difference between having Aaron Sanchez in your rotation vs Taylor Guerrieri.

They’re projected to be barely over .500 this year, it’s not like anybody’s saying they’re gonna win the division. How is it hard to believe they can win 86 games?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  Rotoholic

It isn’t hard to believe that. It’s just unlikely that’s the mean projection.

Gonna go ahead and show you the ranks of each position here:
SP: #14
RP: #14
RF: #15
CF: #12
LF: #15
3B: #1
SS: #14
2B: #14
1B: #10
C: #11
DH: #9 (of 15 in AL)

So no, I wouldn’t call SP and RP and RF (or SS and 2B and LF) “above average” except very narrowly. The multiplier effect you note is true, but not relevant here.

The shortstop was replacement level last year and just had surgeries on both feet, so who knows when he’s coming back, so I think it’s fair to question that one. And they play in the AL East.

I don’t think 86-76 is an unreasonable outcome, but if we’re picking a team to underperform the projection that’s the one I go with.

RotoholicMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Why are you comparing them to the NL?? All the data we need here is in the post itself, compared to the teams they’re actually competing against for a playoff spot. I showed they’re 2 WAR above league average for the rotation. Call it significant, call it narrow, call it whatever you want. But it’s still 2 WAR. It would seem that you’re trying to muddy the waters, here.

As for SS, sure. Tulo probably won’t be back by the AS break. He’s only projected for half a season, anyway, and if Diaz has to stay at SS for an additional month the downgrade is negligible. They don’t even lose much in terms of utility infielder since Solarte can back up all 4 IF spots, and his bat is every bit as good as Diaz’s.

I think the people that are so skeptical of the Jays’ projection don’t have a grasp of how important depth is. The Jays have 6 competent infielders this year, 4 of which can play middle infield at a league-average level. Last year they had 4 competent infielders, 2 of which could play MI. So when injuries happen, they have 2 league-average backups now compared to 0 last year. They have arguably 6 OF’s that can play OF at a league average level with the addition of Grichuk, Granderson, and the emergence of Teoscar and Alford. 4 fairly big additions for OF and all they lost out there was a sub-replacement level Bautista. All of these little 1-2 WAR improvements add up significantly.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  Rotoholic

Because if you keep shrinking the denominator in an ordered rank variable, the results become less meaningful. Ordered rank variables themselves are already throwing away a lot of information from the WAR projections, although they are easier to work with conceptually.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Blue Jays win 86 games. I also wouldn’t be surprised to see the Angels win 86 games. I would, however, be very surprised to see the Blue Jays win 90, whereas I could definitely see that happening with the Angels.

RotoholicMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Yeah it’s almost like instead of a ranked list of the AL teams (or MLB teams, which is apparently better when determining who will win the AL playoff spots), we should get an estimate of the total production including offense, defense, and pitching. Some kind of all-in-one stat. We could take that all-in-one stat and take a weighted average based on projected playing time according to a depth chart. Then, we could look historically at how each team would fare against all of their actual opponents in the schedule based on their runs scored/allowed, to get a rough projection for a win total. Then, if a team was projected for say, 86 wins after doing all that, it’d be safe to say they’re likely solidly above average. Hmmmm. I wonder what kind of website might have that kind of information readily available.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  Rotoholic

Yeah, we should look at WAR instead.

https://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=Team

And on that list, the Blue Jays are 6th, leaving them juuuust shy of a playoff spot.

And that’s if you actually buy the individual projections, and it’s fair to be skeptical of a large number of those projections.

Add in the tough AL East schedule, and there seems to be a lot more downside here than upside.

RotoholicMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Yeah, 6th in the AL. Out of 15 teams. Equivalent to 86 wins. That’s taking into account their exact schedule and strength of opponents. And you’re arguing that “it’s hard to say you’re that much better than average”. As evidence for this, you provide a series of MLB-wide positional rankings and say they’re too close to average at most positions to be above-average.

Damaso
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

using the actual ranks: https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/2018-positional-power-rankings-summary/

#1 3B (+3.5 over median)
#9 C (+0.4)
#11 SS (+0.5)
#11 2B (+0.3)
#12 CF (+0.6)
#13 SP (+1.1)
#13 1B (+0.2)
#13 RF (+0.0)
#15 LF (+0.1)
#9 DH (-0.1)
#18 RP (-0.2)

So the most important slot (SP – which is probably equal to a good 6 or 7 of the other slots put together) is solidly above average. Another slot is way above average. all the others are pretty much bang on average (and if those remaining slots lean either way on the whole, they lean above average, not below).

Twitchy
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Honestly, I’d bet on the Jays beating the projections if anything. Tulo’s projection is junk but the Jays could really hit the over on several guys. Estrada/Sanchez would be prime candidates to do better than projected so long as they’re healthy. Smoak has looked excellent so far, and I’m sure the projections were conservative but he’s another guy who could beat the projections by a bit. His second half was slowed down by injuries, not regression. They Jays have the potential to be an above average rotation with plus defence and average regulars at most spots in the lineup.

That’s a very good combination. Toss in the fact they’ve got several prospects with upside who are close and can make an impact, and it wouldn’t shock me if the Jays were a team that beat projections, as opposed to underachieved.

They’ve got a very difficult schedule. To me that’s the biggest strike against them. But I’d bet on the individual players beating their projections in a fair number of cases.

Damaso
8 years ago
Reply to  Twitchy

Good point about the sked, but at the same time I have a feeling that if any projections are overheated right now, it’s the yanks and red sox projections.

HughesMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

They’re well above median by being median or above in all but two places. That doesn’t make them a powerhouse.

Ie: Your DH blackhole is projecting 0.4 wins behind median. The unremarkable 1B papers over that difference. The median AL team has a weakness at DH. That’s not even stealing points from our great 3B.

Angels are definitely the main competition, but I wouldn’t write off the twins entirely given that the Royals, WSox and Tigers are going to be BAD. I think the Jays have as much opportunity for upside as the Angels.

Keyser Soze
8 years ago
Reply to  Hughes

The Royals are likely going to be bad, and the Tigers as well. Don’t sleep on the White Sox though, I think people might be surprised by them this season. They aren’t going to make the playoffs yet but I’m not sure they are just going to be a mere speed bump for the contenders either. Especially a fringe contender like the Twins.

As for the Jays I suspect their division will be easier than people believe. It is early but the Orioles are looking like they will trend towards the lower end of their error bar. If so they will most likely sell anything of value at mid-season, starting with Machado. Not sure what else would be of interest to other teams – Schoop, possibly Jones, one or two bullpen pieces. Maybe Cobb or Cashner depending on performance.

The Rays have already been wrecked by injuries in their one area of strength, starting pitching – and that was a man short to start with. Their lineup and bullpen would have been challenged anyway and won’t likely be enough to compensate for the missing starters as well.

That’s two out of the four competitors in the AL East that are already looking soft. The Yankees and Red Sox are heavily favoured but the Sox already have starting pitching concerns and it remains to be seen whether there is much more thump in the lineup than we saw last year. The Yankees have a tremendous lineup but are really counting on their starting pitching to make it through the whole season healthy. Do you want to take that bet?

The early advantage people are giving the Twins in the wildcard race due to their division may not turn out to be a significant factor in the end.

FrancoLuvHateMets
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Angel fans wish they had average production everywhere except Trout for the last 4 years.

dylanf
8 years ago

after all the talk that their infield defence would have to be solid due to having extreme ground ball pitchers like Stroman and Garcia, on the first day of the season their third baseman’s arm doesn’t work, the shortstop needs surgery on both feet and the second baseman is only allowed to play 2/3 of the games in an attempt to keep him healthy for once.

HughesMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  dylanf

Yes and there was anticipation of that fact in the construction of this year’s team. Gloves should be similar, while their bats should be better.

Barney/Goins/Urena were all shaded to the negative side of average last year.

Damaso
8 years ago

Yeah I think it’s a good idea to go along with the projections this year over the consensus gut feelings this year.

As you pointed out, the Jays hilariously (and literally) got replacement level production from 6 out of 9 positions. And 2 of the remaining 3 non-replacement slots were well under expectations to boot. And then on top of that lost arguably their best pitcher for the entire season to blisters.

The only things that went right for them were Smoak and the bullpen. (and really, the projections for the bullpen this year are probably too low – lots of quality depth all with recent plus performance stretching all the way down into AAA).

It really was a legit disaster year last year.

The roster would likely have been better this year just from a dead cat bounce, but then the FO went out and actually added some quality players to the lineup – a bunch of guys with legit 2-3+ war recent seasons. I was hoping from more from the offseason but these were all significant upgrades nonetheless.

The projections seem very fair to me.

Then again, Smoak and Osuna don’t seem to want to regress this year, as projected.

Damaso
8 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

And I gotta say I’m a bit surprsied at the fangraphs’ writers general takes on the Jays this year – when they seem to be following the “deep depth” model that fangraphs’ writers have always previously favored over a stars’n’scrubs model.

HughesMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

It doesn’t look like there’s many stars’n’scrubs teams. The top teams are stars and solid players. I guess the Mets and Angels fall into stars and scrubs? Meanwhile Jays and Cardinals are kind of star and solid.

Damaso
8 years ago
Reply to  Hughes

I think even the Yanks and sox are looking a little bit star’n’scrubby to me, though the late Walker signing helped the yanks there. Even as projected, but especially if you think that the projections are a bit rosy for their bottom of the roster slots.

RotoholicMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  Damaso

Who are the scrubs on the Yankees? Drury, maybe? And even he was worth 1.2 WAR last year. They’re loaded top to bottom. Same with the Red Sox, with the exception of their bullpen beyond Kimbrel.

Damaso
8 years ago
Reply to  Rotoholic

well, the yanks plugged one of their scrub holes with Walker late, but still, over the previous 2yrs their starting 1B has put up -0.4war, and their starting 3B has put up 0.9war.

The Sox are starting the year with velazquez and johnson in their starting rotation, their bullpen is almost all question marks, and we’re not sure if they have legit mlb starters at 1B, 3B, or C.

bjsguess
8 years ago
Reply to  Hughes

I think the Angels WERE a stars and scrubs model. You saw that addressed (to an extent) with Cozart, Kinsler, and Upton. Really only weaknesses around the diamond is DH/1B and there is only so much they can do there with Pujols. Those three changes replaced Espinosa, Escobar, and Maybin. Huge upgrades without adding a true super-star.

CheeseballMember since 2016
8 years ago

I see it as a similar situation to the Giants. Old team, some good players who underperformed last year, hoping for better health and luck this year.

I believe I read that the crowd underrates old players and overrates young players? That bias plus bad memories of last year make it hard to swallow the Giants or Jays as good teams.

Twitchy
8 years ago
Reply to  Cheeseball

The big difference here is the Jays have several prospects who can make an impact at various spots that are close to the majors, and that the Jays have quality depth in the minors in case of injuries or underperformance. So the Jays are in a much more favourable position than the Giants.

dbminnMember since 2026
8 years ago

Well explained, Jay. I still think the projection leans more upside than baseline.

Several players are coming off injuries. Solarte and Pillar are expected to bounce back from poor seasons. An argument can be made that any one of these players will reach their 2018 projection. The odds of all of them improving/staying healthy seems unlikely.

The bullpen has no depth. Osuna is excellent and Tepera could be good. Maybe Oh can return to his previous self – maybe. That’s not enough pitching to cover high-leverage games.

I wouldn’t be shocked if the Jays win 86 but I wouldn’t bet on it. I’d set the bar at 82.

Stevil
8 years ago

For what it’s worth, PECOTA has the Blue Jays pegged for 80-82.

The Steamer projection for Morales isn’t very pretty. While the bullpen is getting plenty of attention as an area of concern, DH is an area they could really use an upgrade.

Shattenjager
8 years ago

I’m 32. I know it’s not true, but it feels to me like Russell Martin came up about when I was in middle school. He just feels like he’s been around so long!

Momus
8 years ago
Reply to  Shattenjager

I still remember him as the catcher who nearly lead his team in stolen bases back with the Dodgers at the start of his career.

tippie
8 years ago

Shapiro and Atkins made really good incremental roster improvements while protecting against injury, and setting themselves up for a sell-off in July if needed (Oh, Clippard, Axford, Granderson). Gibbons has never had so many lineup choices and he’s doing a good job with moving fielders around.