Mariners Kick Off Offseason with an Accusation
The Seattle Mariners’ offseason hasn’t gotten off to an ideal start. Despite a 2018 campaign that saw the team win 89 games and compete for a Wild Card spot most of the year, the club appears likely to blow up its roster, having begun the process already with a trade of starting catcher Mike Zunino to Tampa Bay. That was followed by word that Seattle planned to move ace James Paxton, who still has two years of team control left.
While bad news for the team’s short-term prospects, such deals are at least designed to maximize the long-term health of the organization. Another recent development, however, would seem to have little in the way of silver linings. As Ryan Divish reported on Monday, the team suddenly finds itself in the throes of a messy public parting of the ways with ex-employee Dr. Lorena Martin.
The Mariners decided to terminate the contract of Dr. Lorena Martin, who was hired to be the team's high performance director last offseason. Martin has commented on the situation on her instagram account. https://t.co/jiobGbkbXt
— Ryan Divish (@RyanDivish) November 12, 2018
You may recall that Dr. Martin was hired a little over a year ago as the team’s first “director of high performance,” a position crafted to use analytics and medicine to keep players healthy. At the time, Mariners general manager Jerry Dipoto issued a glowing review of his new hire, as passed along by the Seattle Times.
Martin, who was the director of sports performance analytics for the Los Angeles Lakers, will oversee the organization’s medical, strength and conditioning, nutrition and mental-skills departments.
“We have spent nearly a year working on creating this position and structure as well as identifying the best person for this role,” Mariners general manager Jerry Dipoto said. “Lorena’s background, skill set and previous experience make her a perfect match for what we envisioned.”
Despite the somewhat florid title, Dr. Martin’s role with the Mariners was fairly groundbreaking.
With the Mariners, she was put in charge of all aspects of physical and mental training for the team’s players, incorporating data from various trainers, coaches and physicians to improve performance.
“My passion for statistics derived from my desire to just want to answer a simple question: ‘What are the variables that professional athletes must have in order to become a world class athlete in their sport?’” Martin told GeekWire. “I found that I could answer my questions through research, measurement, statistics, and analytics.”
In June 2018, the Mariners were still lauding Martin and the job she was doing. In July, TJ Cotterill wrote a profile of Martin for the News-Tribune, noting that Martin had reduced the Mariners’ injuries by 50%. She received praise from Felix Hernandez, who told Cotterill that “[s]he’s made a huge impact.”
But the honeymoon didn’t last. Though Martin was signed to a three-year contract, the Mariners terminated her employment in early October. Ryan Divish relays for the Seattle Times that the Mariners didn’t believe she was as successful at changing the organization’s culture as the club originally anticipated she would be.
Martin’s presence with the major-league team wasn’t as visible as first expected. Dipoto gave her oversight over all aspects of the training and conditioning programs for the entire organization. It was was a massive undertaking.
Also, some players were slow to embrace a new style of thinking about their health, conditioning, nutrition and recovery… there were rumblings that she would have her role reduced with the big-league team and that she would instead work out of the team’s complex in Arizona, focusing more on the minor-league staff in 2019.
But on Monday, Martin posted on Instagram a different explanation for her termination.
In other words, Dr. Martin is not only alleging senior leadership used racist language but is heavily implying that she and others were terminated for reporting such language. If true, that would violate both Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as well as Washington’s state-level Human Rights Act. And while we don’t have enough facts to know whether Martin would have standing to file suit for a racist remark if it wasn’t directed at her, terminating her for reporting that conduct is almost certainly unlawful.
The Mariners issued a categorical denial that any such racist conduct occurred.
Here is the #Mariners statement in response to Dr. Lorena Martin's claims: pic.twitter.com/dUhPBJ0Kat
— Tim Booth (@ByTimBooth) November 13, 2018
Martin responded to the Mariners’ statement by confirming that she had, in fact, reported racist incidents to Mariners management.
There was a breach of contract on the Mariners behalf – and I had reported many other discriminatory incidences to HR and other Mariners staff members throughout the season. And yes Leonardo Santiago and Jose Valdez, DR trainers were let go and not given new contracts. #truth
— Lorena Martin (@LMHighPerform) November 13, 2018
Of note in Martin’s tweet here is that she provides actual names of trainers she says the Mariners terminated for reporting discriminatory statements. The Mariners, for their part, didn’t deny firing any trainers for that purpose — they denied firing any trainers at all.
So who’s right? We know that Martin didn’t pull the names out of a hat. The team’s categorical denials leave them very little wiggle room should new details emerge. Santiago, for example, was confirmed as working for the Mariners as an athletic coordinator before the 2017 season. I wasn’t able to find any public confirmation that either Santiago or Valdez were terminated, but it should also be noted that neither is listed on the team’s staff directory or coaching roster (though Dr. Martin is still listed). Martin explained her delay in coming forward as the result of ongoing negotiations.
They wanted to negotiate to keep me quiet.
— Lorena Martin (@LMHighPerform) November 12, 2018
Ryan Divish confirmed at least that such negotiations were occurring, writing that “[s]ources indicated that the Mariners are trying to avoid paying the remaining two years on Martin’s three-year contract for various reasons and that she has hired an attorney.” At the same time, Divish noted that Martin’s contract likely contained an arbitration clause, which would preclude either side from bringing a lawsuit and require both parties to present their claims to an arbitrator.
So why did the Mariners terminate Martin? At this point, we have the team saying it was poor performance and Martin saying it was retaliation for reporting racist comments. It’s also worth noting that the team, including Dipoto, has previously taken a hard line against racist comments, most notably suspending catcher Steve Clevenger without pay for tweets he made regarding Black Lives Matter. The details of this incident are still emerging. Dr. Martin went on the record with the Tacoma News Tribune Monday evening to further detail her allegations; the Mariners once again issued a categorical denial, calling Dr. Martin’s claims “fabricated,” including “her statements about reports to Human Resources and specific allegations about people named in the story.” We simply don’t have enough information at this point to conclusively determine what happened, but either way, this will be a cloud hanging over the Mariners’ already challenging offseason until we have greater clarity.
Sheryl Ring is a litigation attorney and General Counsel at Open Communities, a non-profit legal aid agency in the Chicago suburbs. You can reach her on twitter at @Ring_Sheryl. The opinions expressed here are solely the author's. This post is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended as legal advice.
Small point – the Mariners denied terminating the contracts of any trainers “this offseason”.
That distinction, which isn’t one that Dr. Martin made, seemed to draw a strange line, considering the trainers could have easily been let go during the season, or, as is reported, not had their contracts renewed, which Ryan Divish reported as “akin to being fired.”
Link to that article here: https://t.co/0AJq0xNMVa
there is also a difference between being fired, and simply not having your contract renewed
There’s a difference, but they may amount to the same thing if contracts are customarily renewed. And obviously it would be reprehensible not to renew someone’s contract because that person has complained about organizational racism.
yes of course. the difference says nothing about the motivations.
Is it reprehensible if there’s no organizational racism? The accusation is just an accusation at this point.
I’m a bit surprised at the strength with which the Mariners issued their statements. Usually, an organization would use some generic ‘we didn’t do it, but are looking into it, investigation etc.’
I don’t know what that means, just didn’t expect a non-traditional statement.
If steroid denials are any precedent, it means they’re guilty.
Because people only deny things if they’re guilty.
i wasn’t referring to all denials, and neither was the post above mine. that post commented on the “strength” of the m’s denial. i’ll never forget palmeiro’s denial in front of congress and how people i know gave it more credit because of how forceful it was, only to have his reputation blown up by a failed test a year later.
All the same, it’s tough to extrapolate any sort of likely guilt or innocence in this instance based on N=1.
Re: Palmeiro – Given what we found out later about Tejada, can we still assume Palmeiro was lying about Tejada injecting him?
#6 org
You don’t deserve those downvotes. That was genuinely funny.
*munches popcorn* I’m just here for the comments
If racist leadership in a MLB team means they cannot make the playoffs, how does Lorena Martin explain Marge Schott’s Reds winning the 1990 World Series?
I didn’t know about Marge Schott until now.
Lucky you.
I remember Marge Schott but hadn’t thought of her since she died, at least. Sigh, I’m beginning to forget the days when expressing sympathy for nazis, ya know, carried consequences.
Marge didn’t express “sympathies for Nazis.” She made a comment often made by German-Americans of her era: “Everything you read, when he came in he was good. They built tremendous highways and got all the factories going. He went nuts, he went berserk. I think his own generals tried to kill him, didn’t they? Everybody knows he was good at the beginning but he just went too far.”
And, yes, as a boy and young man I heard her German-American contemporaries say the same thing: that what Hitler (not “the Nazis”; Hitler) got done at the beginning of his rule was fine, but that starting WW2 and the Holocaust were insane. I have read enough German history to know better – Hitler was evil and warped from the get-go – but this is what her German-American contemporaries believed and this is what they commonly said. It’s not hate speech; pretty far from it (“he went nuts”), in fact. She was simply stating what she believed based on what she’d been told. There is a huge, gaping chasm between what she said and sympathizing with Nazis.
Bill James wrote a wonderful essay about this, concluding that baseball’s decision to punish her for voicing unpopular opinions while exercising her right to free speech was far worse than anything that she had ever actually said.
I was but a wee lad when Marge Schott started saying things, so my knowledge of this is entirely limited to her Wikipedia page. It sounds like the controversies surrounding her included a lot more than just her views on the evolution of the Nazi party.
“It sounds like the controversies surrounding her included a lot more than just her views on the evolution of the Nazi party.”
She had a lot of controversies in her life, but she was a product of her time and upbringing at a time when the world was changing, and she acted like it. If you take a hard look at Steinbrenner, or Selig, or even the Wilpons today, she doesn’t look all that bad in comparison.
And she never discussed the Nazi Party. Just Hitler. And I have twenty bucks that says the question was a total setup.
OK, but Hitler and the Nazi party are synonymous. Hitler had been the leader of the Nazi party for over ten years when he assumed power. When she says “They built tremendous highways and got all the factories going” she’s talking about the Nazis. I don’t find her opinions on that particularly offensive, but when combined with owning Nazi paraphernalia and allegedly making derogatory comments about Jewish people and black people, I can understand how it wasn’t viewed favorably.
M’s could be technically correct in saying that they did not terminate any trainers in the off season; notice that Dr. Martin originally says they are “firing innocent trainers,” before following up with “DR trainers were let go and not given new contracts.” So could just be that the trainers’ contracts expired after the season and not renewed.
Between the issues with the Dodgers this offseason, Bill James’ continued and prideful ignorance (which I observe as representative of the “old guard” mentality of long-term front office members) , and now this – it’s becoming hard to really ever want to work for these organizations.
While we don’t know much, I tend to believe that someone as widely respected as Dr. Martin – a hire from outside the baseball circle and as both a woman and a POC, wouldn’t have gone on the tangent she did if this wasn’t true. I find it odd and suspicious someone who came in with her fanfare was discarded without announcement back in October. None of this seems right, and again, I tend to take her for her word.
The most pertinent voices today to discuss the culture in baseball are ones who haven’t been born and raised in this industry, and ones who aren’t of the privileged and wealthy white male demographic that makes up the majority of jobs in baseball. I’ve never heard a bad word about Dr. Martin from players or those who have worked with her in other professions.
It’s not a good look for the Mariners – and just when I think MLB is working towards eliminating is toxicity and wants to diversify their front offices, these reports continuously come out and make me lose hope. And the masses, blinded in ignorance, won’t bat an eye because she’s a woman.
Why should being a woman or POC give anybody more or less credibility here? The charge should live or die based purely on the facts and I don’t see how the validity of the claim is enhanced by race or gender.
I never indicated she had more credibility – but her voice matters more to be indicative of the culture of baseball front offices. Front offices are generally comprised of straight, white, cis men from wealthy backgrounds. The less diversity, the less backlash to blatant ignorance towards less privileged groups.
It’s odd to me that she was fired without any announcement. Her interview on The News Tribune – where she clarified, notes incidences towards her that were clearly misogynistic. What she said about how front offices view Latin players is not out of line from my experience conversing with players and reading other reports.
The fact is that you or I can’t prove these claims based on fact – nobody was there besides the present parties. However, to disregard what she’s saying is ignorant and enables the toxic culture in baseball to remain what it is. If we don’t listen to those in front offices from backgrounds that are already discriminated against, then no progress will be made. It’s sad I even have to or feel the need to justify this – but alas.
Looking at her Twitter avatar, she’s no POC.
She’s of a Latin background. A POC is anyone who is non-white
Not trying to be pedantic, but you can be a white Hispanic (e.g. Charlie Sheen) and, on her Instagram page she identifies as Cuban and Spanish (meaning from Spain). Not that it means she can’t identify as a POC or isn’t one, but the legacy of the Spanish colonial caste system, combined with American conceptions of race, makes it pretty muddy.
The general note of importance to me is she isn’t exclusively a white, cis, straight male. She is not a traditional hire – all it takes is a LinkedIn browse to see who works in baseball operations departments. She is A) Female and B) Non-white (or predominantly white, if that matters).
My point is, because of where she comes from, I tend to find it important how front office members not of the traditional archetype view the baseball culture. An all white, predominantly male front office generally isn’t going to air these grievances. That’s my point.
Sure, I agree. Just sharing some general knowledge I thought was relevant.
Never hurts to know. More knowledge the better…not the common consensus in the comments today based on what’s getting downvoted. Alas, friend.
Hispanic is considered white now, at least according to censuses.
Latin background has nothing to do with skin color. The Infanta of Spain is Latin and I would hesitate to call her a PoC.
“While we don’t know much, I tend to believe that someone as widely respected as Dr. Martin – a hire from outside the baseball circle and as both a woman and a POC, wouldn’t have gone on the tangent she did if this wasn’t true.”
I think if I have learned anything over my lifespan, people will lie for all sorts of reasons, including highly educated people, highly respected people, and people of all races and ethnicities. I have also learned that some well-respected people are, frankly, nuts and/or complete jerks, and I have learned that otherwise perfectly reasonable people do stupid things when they are angry. So, to summarize, I do not find this train of thought to be at all convincing.
I will await actual corroborated evidence as opposed to (ugh) Twitter posts and press releases.
Look no further than your local university if you want to find nuts and/or complete jerks.
Lack of humility, not lack of education, is the biggest contributing factor to jerkiness.
I thought making blanket assumptions about groups of people was part of jerkiness. Like, you know, implying that every university is filled with nuts and jerks.
1. I will never make the claim that I’m not a jerk. In fact, I make it a point to be horrible to people whenever I can get away with it.
2. Good luck finding a university anywhere in the world that does not have its fair share of nuts and jerks.
The part about “filled with” is just you putting words in my mouth, although if it gets down to that, I’m actually comfortable saying that, yes, every university is in fact filled with nuts and jerks. The academic rat race will do that to you, and I won’t even get into the scum that populate every university’s administrative and clerical departments. They are enclosed shell-like environments in which people can get away with a lot of things, and there will always be people who abuse this.
Man you must have had a terrible experience at college. Maybe its because you are proud to be jerky? People tend to be jerks to people who are jerks to them.
Just making statements of fact. Maybe facts make you uncomfortable?
Here’s a simple fact for you: in today’s society, schools are among the few places where things such as an explicit structure of hierarchy, submission to authority and restriction of freedom are both maintained and cherished. And when people are given a great deal of power over others, some of them will always abuse them. Colleges are no exception, except you also have a group of people who just gained a degree of newfound freedom and abuse it in their own way.
It sounds like you are saying there are nuts and jerks everywhere, which is true. Following that, it’s only logical that colleges and universities would have nuts and jerks, just like anywhere else. Not sure why you feel compelled to single out schools though.
Authoritarian politicians are en vogue right now. They’re especially popular among voters who didn’t attend college, so I don’t think this is something unique to colleges and universities.
I didn’t find college to encourage submission to authority more than anywhere else. Unlike high school, attending class is purely optional. Sure, your professors tell you what to do, but so does your boss.
Because universities and academic competition by their very nature are designed to stoke egos, more than any other place. I’ve seen too many people believing that their PhDs make them experts in everything, until they run into a brick wall in real life. While that can happen to anyone, people who are highly educated are far more likely to have an inflated belief in their knowledge of things outside their forte.
Because figures of authority in schools enjoy more power over other people than many other places, and like I said, power begets abuse. You only need to look back as far as last week to find a prime example at Maryland.
Because people who are safe, cozy and well-protected can often start to enjoy their position a little too much at the expense of others. You’ll find this in the private sector too, with long-tenured employees at corporations, but you are even more likely to get that at universities.
Because more than any other place, universities are filled with the age group that is most likely to have people who can’t understand that you shouldn’t drink and drive no matter how you try to hammer it into them, people who can’t understand that freedom also involves not infringing upon that of others, and people with too much sexual drive and too little awareness about keeping their dicks away from people who don’t want it.
You just highlighted both restriction of freedom and the acquisition of freedom as contributing factors to this problem.
Facts don’t make me uncomfortable. People claiming the things they say are facts when they’re just generalizations based on their own limited experience, that makes me uncomfortable. That’s why we have anti-vaxxers and climate change deniers.
Actually, the climate change deniers would be the ones trying to pretend that facts are just generalizations.
But hey, by all means, keep your rose-tinted glasses on if it helps you turn a blind eye to the things you don’t want to see.
Haha I love that you came back to edit your post to add the 2nd paragraph. Really galvanized your point:)
I’m sorry your college experience was so terrible, but please consider that it may have been atypical, and everything you’re describing happens everywhere in life. Demonizing academia with sweeping baseless generalizations feels like an attack on science and evidence-based decision making, which are constantly under assault these days with just the same fluff you’re spreading here.
But by all means, keep your fluff-colored glasses on, which keep you from seeing anything you don’t already know
“Bill James’ continued and prideful ignorance
That is the most untrue and most utterly ignorant statement I have ever read. You should be ashamed of yourself; without the knowledge that Bill developed there wouldn’t even be a FanGraphs.
Given how specific both the accusations and the Mariners’ denial are, this seems like a singularly uninteresting topic to speculate upon regardless of which side you support. At some point, someone has to bring up actual proof, at which point the other side’s story falls apart.
I hope the truth becomes clear and revealed soon. And I hope whichever side is lying here gets hammered for it. That the Mariners flat out deny the charges (and say they fired no trainers, much less for these reasons) should make it more likely one side is caught here.
If interested in this topic, whether specifically or generally, I recommend the reader to Isabelle Minasian’s post at Lookout Landing here:
https://www.lookoutlanding.com/2018/11/13/18091764/dr-martins-allegations-demonstrate-fundamental-problems-within-the-mariners-organization-baseball
and an interview with TJ Cotterill of the Tacoma News Tribune, linked in the Lookout article.
Of course I am bias since I am a lifetime M’s fan, but I do read a lot of content across the SB Nation MLB pages, and the editorial staff at Lookout Landing are, and have been, some of the best around. Regardless of your opinion on the Mariners, its worth appreciating Lookout Landing because they do have damn good writers.
If you read TheAthletic piece the Lakers were happy to see her leave. Kind of curious why that was left out of this post.
I think it’s fair use to include an excerpt (below).
[I also think it’s fair at this point to assume that some parts of FG are primarily interested in advancing an agenda, and are willing to ignore indications contrary to the narrative.]
“While the Mariners seemed to initially consider Martin’s addition a coup, multiple Lakers sources indicated some within the organization were relieved she found a position elsewhere despite having hired her barely a year earlier. Martin’s role was reduced in scope, and Lakers sources described her as difficult to work with, unable to accept criticism and eager to deflect blame.”
That’s interesting, and certainly relevant.
I think it’s a reach to say that FanGraphs not including it in this article is evidence of an agenda. I don’t have an Athletic subscription, but from what I can tell that article was published earlier today. This Fangraphs article was also published earlier today. It’s very likely this article was submitted to the editor before the Athletic article was even published.
From my point of view, trying to use this as evidence that Fangraphs is advancing an agenda really speaks more to the agenda of the readers making such comments.
Also interesting is that the Mariners don’t refer to her as Dr. Martin in their latest statement even though they did when they hired her. Is it possible she doesn’t really have a doctorate or is that just an oversight? It certainly seems intentional.
Haha, I suppose this is how conspiracy theories get started.
You are reading way too much into that detail.
Also left out of this post are reports that she was difficult to work with. Interestingly Sheryl quotes a positive comment from Felix Hernandez (who would appear to be Dr. Martin’s biggest failure this year, right?) when the greater context of that quote demonstrates they had a rocky relationship.
Facepalm.
You replied to a comment thread you clearly didn’t even read. Someone right above you posted the exact same thing about her being difficult to work with.
And what part of the “greater context” of that quote demonstrates they had a rocky relationship? I don’t see how any reasonable person could read that article and come away with that conclusion.
I really wish people would stop trying to inject facts and conspiracies where there aren’t any.
Um I replied to this comment: “If you read TheAthletic piece the Lakers were happy to see her leave. Kind of curious why that was left out of this post.” and highlighted another piece of context that was also omitted from this post. I reread the thread, searching this entire article and all comments, I don’t see anything else said about her working with Felix.
The greater context I’m referring to is Felix saying he’d try her approach once and if it doesn’t work never doing it again. I read an article about those two that unfortunately I can’t seem to find now that it’s been pushed down under all the recent news, talking about players resisting her approach and her not being easy to work with. Based on the results on the field, the “she’s made a huge impact” quote is probably the most meaningless thing that could be said.
Someone else already pointed out that there’s evidence she’s hard to work with. It’s the first post under the comment you replied to. They also implied the omission is evidence of an agenda on Fangraphs’ part. I pointed out that the two articles were published at roughly the same time. It’s relevant, but not reasonable to expect Frangraphs to include information that likely wasn’t available when the article was submitted to the editor.
There are lots of quotes from Felix praising her, and only one was included. The article says he gave her one day to earn her trust, and she did, so they started working together. If Felix was being as stubborn as you’re claiming, wouldn’t he be the one who was hard to work with? I just don’t see anywhere where he actually said that. I don’t think he would, either. I’ve heard a lot of Felix stories from people who’ve run into him in Seattle, and he sounds like an awesome dude.
On the field, Felix was not good. On the other hand, he started more games and pitched more innings than he has since 2015. From a health standpoint that’s a win, so the results are kind of a mixed bag.
I live in Washington. Being a Mariners fan is hard enough. I hope the allegations aren’t true. Based on the way they were presented, and the Mariners’ history of taking a proactive approach to diversity and inclusion, I’m inclined to believe the Mariners’ side here. I’m also a reasonable person, and will freely admit that I can’t say with any certainty what actually happened.
There are constant attempts by some readers of this site to claim an agenda on the part of Fangraphs. But the evidence used is often in the form of what we’re seeing here – Fangraphs didn’t include this piece of information, but they did include this piece of information, so clearly they’re biased and trying to advance an agenda. But when the piece of information they didn’t include likely wasn’t even available when the article was written, how is that any evidence at all? It’s insanity.
Baseball has taken years to figure out how to translate sabermetrics into a baseballspeak that players could relate to. This was a slow process which is now finally more successful than not. Changing lifestyles is a still longer bridge to cross one would think. It would be surprising were some ethnics more unable or unwilling to change than others for any reason, but is a thing racist if it is true? Or is it racist to notice a thing is true? The answer to both is yes in late America. A remark hurts in proportion to the degree of truth it contains. So let us howl.
I honestly can’t decide what you’re saying here, but the line of is it or isn’t it racist isn’t that complicated. If the sentence is “that guy is lazy as hell,” and he happens to be Latino, not racist. If it’s “All those Latinos are lazy as hell,” it’s racist as hell. And if it’s the former, but it’s said individually about every Latino player and almost no others, then it’s the former masquerading itself as the latter, and again, racist as hell.
It is incredibly hard to follow this meandering comment. If I follow correctly, then, yes, it is racist to ascribe personality characteristics to someone based solely on their race/national origin. Happy to help.
What do you think of rounders’ comment, Jay Peterman?
“Well that certainly was a lot of words.”
Thanks Mr. Peterman!
As far as front offices go; you’re talking about a front office that pretty much single-handedly created the current emphasis on the Director of High Performance. They’re already trying to figure out what the next under-valued corporate title is, and how to create it.
Mariners keep marinersing
Downvoting good comments because you , personally, consider them “incorrect” makes you a…
*drumroll*
… petty bitch.
That’s your rationalization for all the down-votes you’ve accumulated over the years? LOL. And maybe check the name-calling and hostility at the door next time.
This guys still here? Thought he’d have been banned months ago for his trolling and racist/discriminatory takes.
Jokes on you! Fangraphs don’t ban anyone!
nah bro, we’re downvoting you because it’s you
Except a good comment wasn’t being down-voted…
They aren’t downvoting good comments.
I don’t understand why she says the Mariners were trying to negotiate with her to not have to pay the rest of her contract in order to keep her quiet. It seems like if you wanted to keep her quiet you would agree to pay her the rest of her contract, not try to void it, right?
Hoo boy, that’s an ugly parting. I should just note that it’s entirely possible that they weren’t happy with Martin’s performance in that role and also that DiPoto, Servais, and McKay made those horrible comments.
Apparently MLB is also investigating. I suspect that we’ll know more later.
Based on the articles in the News Tribune and the Athletic plus Ryan Divish and Jason Churchill’s comments on Twitter I *think* that she is a little crazy/very difficult to work with AND Dipoto/Servais/McKay said some really stupid stuff.
Some of the racism/sexism comments are hard to contrast with them trading for Carlos Ruiz, promoting Manny Acta, having a team led by Latin American players, hiring female scouts, etc. But the specific details she provides paint an awful picture. Unless she is flat out lying and making stuff up, I hope Dipoto, Servais, and McKay all lose their jobs (Mather too although not for this incident).
Hopefully one side can provide some proof of their stories soon.
maybe i’m lacking reading comprehension, but she never said that she was let go for reporting the alleged issues, does she? she does say that with regards to the trainers, but not herself.
Well, it’s one of those, isn’t it? A sues B, B counter-sues (replace “sue” with #tweets against, if you want to be modern.) But, as always from the outside, it’s who you choose to believe in these matters,
“I found that I could answer my questions through research, measurement, statistics, and analytics.”
A noble, if somewhat arrogant, belief, Ms Martin. Apparently the inevitable lawsuit farrago is going to be about … something else, orthogonal to your findings. Now, it could very well be that you found right, real right … or on the other hand, perhaps the Mariners are dispensing with your services because, well, you weren’t up to the analytics.
Claiming that you are up with the stattos is all very well, but by definition you have to live with the outcomes. Which in the specific case of Ms Martin and the Mariners (small sample, I know) have not thus far been all that encouraging.
*Dr. Martin
As heinous as Dr. Martin’s allegations are, how childish and unprofessional is it to make them on social media?
It cheapens the accusation, and deigitmizes the seriousness of what she’s alleging. Maybe I’m od fashioned, but if her accusations are true there’s a proper format to make them public. And it’s not instagram
And what, pray tell, is said proper format? News happens on social media these days. No sense fighting it, it’s just the way it is. If she had a press conference with a lawyer, people would be complaining about grandstanding, too. No real good way to do it to please everyone, I guess is what I’m saying.
How about filing a lawsuit for wrongful termination and/or violation of the Civil Rights Act?
Seems like she’s probably on the way to doing that (or settling before filing). Sounds like your suggestion is that she not talk about it publicly except in court? Then she gets accused of accepting money for not on publicly addressing racism. Similar criticism that has been leveled against non-disclosure agreements in sexual harassment cases. No option is immune from criticism.
Zimmer you’re being preposterous. A press conference would be seen as grandstanding? Ridiculous.
The interview and article in TNT is how you go public in a professional and civil way. No need to blast an instagram post providing no proof (even though you claim to have some) where you badmouth the team’s performance (unrelated to her grievance). That’s what Trumple would do.
I’m not advocating for any particular method of making your allegation known. I’m just saying that someone is always going to criticize whatever method you choose, so I don’t find any one method, in and of itself, to “cheapen” or “delegitimize” the accusations as stated in the post I was replying to.
“How about filing a lawsuit for wrongful termination and/or violation of the Civil Rights Act?”
That requires proof. Complaining on Instagram does not.
She even had hastags
Also in the instagram post the derogatory comments about the team’s performance. There’s nothing professional about the way she did this.
This one doesn’t pass the smell-test.
It’s impossible for an outsider to know the truth or who’s right or wrong, but the story is a little fishy.
At one time, the Mariners are fairly bragging about hiring the first woman, a Latina, to have a front office role like Director of High Performance (sidebar: George Carlin was there first) and give her a big scope, but less than a year later, the same people became biased against women and racist against Spanish speaking people? That could happen, but it’s odd. It could be just as simple as the Mariners were excited to hire her, perhaps in part because of her personal characteristics, and then later decided she was overwhelmed by the job or better at self-promotion than she was at driving improvement in others.
Her description of her post-doctoral work is also odd, as she seems to imply that it resulted in additional degrees, which is a stretch. Although her post-doctoral work sounds relevant, it’s just that – work – and not another educational achievement. It doesn’t seem like falsifying a resume, but her characterization is embellishment.
Now, the Mariners FO could be rotten, as Dr. Martin characterizes them to be, and no one should be surprised if it’s shown that they did behave like cavemen, but it’s equally plausible that they just made a mistake in hiring.
1.) Without another person’s corroboration, I find it difficult to believe that Jerry DiPoto feels that people from the Dominican Republic are inferior. Not only did he inherit Robinson Cano and Nelson Cruz, but he also aggressively traded FOR Jean Segura and Alex Colome, and he signed Juan Nicasio to a very substantial contract.
2.) As regards Dr. Martin’s performance, all I can say is that I attended 80 games this year at Safeco and must say that many players, by the end of the season, certainly looked like they were enjoying their meals and stuffing it in at the buffet tables.
3.) Also, as regards the executives’ attitudes towards Dominican players, the Mariners were in the “vanguard” of establishing their own Dominican Academy and training center which not only was for the purpose of developing baseball skills, but also geared to help Dominican players succeed at all aspects of playing in organized baseball (diet, health, language, PR etc.) This facility was so well regarded that several other teams have used it and others are first catching up to this kind of support for various mid-America and South American sources of potential talent.
I agree with your comment, but I am curious: why didn’t you attend the 81th game?
Because there’s no such thing as the 81th, duh
You’re right and I upvoted you! English 101, I wrote the comment in a rush and didn’t think about it, even though it’s not my first language that’s not an excuse and a terrible mistake!
Wow. The Mariners front office has bad people or Doc Martin lied? Or somewhere in between? In most scenarios, I can’t imagine Dr. Martin will be bringing her talents to another sports franchise. You get to use the nuclear option once, and if you want another job, you’d better have proved it in court.
She can prove it in court and I imagine that few if any professional sports teams would be interested in her. Nuclear option indeed.
I really hope she has hard evidence, because this could be all sorts of sour grapes.
well she likely just set women in mlb front office positions back about 10 years. Its never about performance if boss disagrees with then its gotta be that theyre racist.lol so sad what she’s doing to that org. Well it looks like her boss made the right choice and now entire world can see why.
Either DiPoto or Martin is a legitimately nuts. There is no middle ground on this one.
Her claim that no DiPoto-led team has ever made the playoffs is interesting, given that the Angels won the AL West in 2014.
Manny Acta, the Mariner’s bench coach (who is from the Dominican Republic) basically demolished all of Martin’s allegations:
“I haven’t heard any negative comments about minorities. Look at our clubhouse. The proof is there. In the three years I’ve been there, all the way from Mr. Stanton to the batboys, I’ve never heard anyone treat any of our guys different.”
Hell hath no fury and all that, but Acta has made the truth pretty clear.