Mariners Replace Good Closer with Good Closer
The Mariners lost Tom Wilhelmsen last year, not to injury, but to whatever it is that capriciously claims the effectiveness of relievers with otherwise quality stuff. In stepped Danny Farquhar, one of two guys the Mariners got for Ichiro in a deal interpreted as nothing other than a dump and a favor. At the time, the Mariners said they liked Farquhar’s new cutter he’d shown in the minors. He proved to be, you could say, up to the task. There were 125 relievers last year who threw at least 50 innings. Farquhar ranked sixth in strikeout rate, between Kenley Jansen and Trevor Rosenthal. He ranked fourth in FIP-, between Mark Melancon and Craig Kimbrel. He ranked sixth in xFIP-, between Aroldis Chapman and Rosenthal. As closer he had a 2.38 ERA. In no time, Farquhar established himself as perhaps one of the better relievers in the major leagues.
On Thursday the Mariners replaced Farquhar with free-agent Fernando Rodney. It had been rumored for months that the Mariners were interested in a veteran closer, and they got the last good one for two years and $14 million, with another possible million in incentives. The Orioles were a possibility, but it seems they’ll stay internal. For the Mariners, on the surface, it’s a strange move. Below the surface, it’s a perfectly reasonable move, that fits within the current market.
The first thing to understand is that Rodney doesn’t really actually “replace” Farquhar — he just moves him up an inning. Closers, on average, throw the highest-leverage innings, but setup guys have their own high-leverage innings, and each bullpen needs several effective arms over the course of six or seven months. Farquhar’s still there, he still projects just the same, he helps as insurance, and down the road he could be cheaper as a result of not racking up saves in 2014.
This was a bullpen in considerable need. Maybe not of a closer, but of help. Outside of Farquhar and Charlie Furbush, the Mariners had a bunch of question marks, made worse by Stephen Pryor coming off an unusual surgery. No one has any idea what to expect from Wilhelmsen, and Yoervis Medina is not unlike Rodney on his worse days. The goal for any contender ought to be to improve, and the Mariners intend to contend, and Rodney makes them an incrementally more talented team. For the sake of reference, adding Rodney to the depth chart increased the Mariners’ bullpen WAR by about 0.9. It’s pretty easy to see this as the Mariners paying about market rate for about another win.
This deal has the terms everyone basically should have been expecting. Some other free-agent contracts:
- Joe Nathan, two years, $20 million
- Joaquin Benoit, two years, $15.5 million
- Grant Balfour, two years, $12 million
- Edward Mujica, two years, $9.5 million
And Balfour originally signed for two years and $15 million before the Orioles called things off after looking at the results of his physical. Rodney’s getting paid about what he should get paid, and while he obviously runs into trouble every so often with walks, there’s more to the story and he projects well, even at 37.
No one will ever be able to forget what Fernando Rodney once was. Even three years ago, he was a disaster with the Angels, ending up with more walks than strikeouts. The next year he went to Tampa Bay and set a new ERA record, in the good way. Last year’s numbers were worse, but they were still good, with a 75 FIP- and a 79 xFIP-. A few factors are correlated with Rodney’s improvement with the Rays. His fastball velocity picked up. His changeup frequency picked up. He pitched a lot to Jose Molina. He shifted over on the mound. Two years in a row, Rodney allowed contact rates of about 70%, and while he’s never been easy to hit, there aren’t clear signs of aging.
Maybe you raise your eyebrows over the Molina bit. Throwing to Molina, Rodney wound up with 28 walks and 81 strikeouts. Throwing to Jose Lobaton and Chris Gimenez, he wound up with 23 walks and 77 strikeouts. With the Rays, Rodney had far greater success than ever before getting pitches in the zone called strikes, so maybe there was a framing benefit, but it doesn’t seem to have been enormous, and Mike Zunino’s early indicators are positive.
The Mariners are in a weird position, where they want to go for it, but they’re not a leading title contender, and there’s not a lot to spend on. Rodney isn’t a splash, but he ought to be a modest improvement, at a corresponding cost that makes this move neither outstandingly good nor regrettably bad. Just looking at the depth charts, there’s a good chance Rodney is a bigger improvement than Nelson Cruz would be, and Cruz would presumably cost more money along with a draft pick. That’s also another move the Mariners are thinking about making, so it’s not like they opted for Rodney instead, but consider this when Cruz’s signing somewhere draws headlines. Cruz seems like an impact player, but Rodney’s impact, at least in Seattle, might be greater.
And so the AL West has gotten all the more tight. The Mariners didn’t need a closer, but they did need better arms, and if they aren’t quite finished spending, that division could turn into a four-team race. Or, you know, maybe not. All we have now are probabilities. No one cares about probabilities when the games are being played, but then, when the games are being played, there are games, and that’s nice, so probabilities just have to get us to that point. It’s not really that much further.
Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.
oh god why can’t it be any closer. thank god they put spring training, what would normally be stupid and meaningless, when we are at our most desperate for anything resembling baseball, transforming it into the most exciting thing ever.
This deal is just MEH. His 1.2 WAR was solid last year but entering Age 37 season it wouldn’t surprise me if Rodney immediately became a replacement player. Time will tell.
That can be said for basically every possible player ever, so excellent insight I guess.
Every player signed is 37?
No, but any player can become replacement level at any time for a number of different reasons.
This deal is just MEH. His 6.0 WAR was solid last year but entering Age season it wouldn’t surprise me if Cano immediately became a replacement player. Time will tell.
I’m surprised fangraphs readers would give Bill S. a +11 on that. Late career aging curves are smooth for large groups, not for individuals. Individuals might look like this: 34 good, 35 almost as good, 36 almost as good, 37 sucks. It is plausible that 37 is the age Rodney falls; that is not the case for Cano.
Dear Bjoak,
Please shape your hand as if preparing to karate chop someone.
Now take that hand and pass it over your head, from front to back.
Also, verbalize the sound I make while traveling above.
Regards,
Low Flying Airplane
Yeah, I guess reading it over he’s pointing out how ridiculous the idea that everyone is equally as likely to fall apart is.
Initially, I thought he was using the language of the original post to say you can stick anyone in that sentence and it sounds stupid.
You CAN stick anyone in that sentence, and it DOES sound stupid.
Park Chan ho’s Beard – please give me your email address so we can chat privately.
that’s ok
Very well, we’ll do this here.
Duck!!! Whooooooosh
That’s your shtick? ok
what would expect low flying airplane’s shtick to be?
yeah I am going to have to ahead and disagree
good signing, obvious need filled
Was closer an obvious need?
No, but bullpen depth was
Bullpen overall was.
Even if Rodney ends up as an 8th inning setup guy for 3/4 of his contract, he still makes the BP better, which was very much needed.
Concur that the need was bullpen depth rather than “closer”. Rodney isn’t replacing Farquhar in a vacuum. He’s replacing the worst player in that pen and — in the (insert arbitrary number here) percent scenario, simply slotting everyone else down
I suspect WAR undervalues closers in a big way. I have seen bad closers cost a team more than 5 wins in a year. That’s pretty rare since most of the time bad closers get moved elsewhere before they get a chance to lose that many games.
Relief pitchers play in a very small and skewed sample size, so it stands to reason that WAR has difficulty being a good indicator.
All the snarky comments make no sense. Median WAR projections aren’t the end all to player projection. But this is FG and this is what we got. Next up someone will wonder if they’re gonna include SDs (the comical assumption) on projections.
fine deal but terrible use of resources. Closers cost more just because they are “closers” and they already had a good one. Honestly Jack has to be the worst GM in baseball.
If a win’s going for about $6 million, and if Rodney’s averaging $7 million…
Yea it’s bad. I was trying to be agreeable as much one can agree with jack’s stupidity. Fangraphs should have an Opposite Day where he is the Managing Editor.
Bullpens are a VERY overlooked group in terms of their value to a team. And for good reason with some teams, as a good bullpen has its greatest value on a team that is otherwise ready to compete (good rotation and offense). With a team that is not otherwise ready to compete, relievers/closers are quite realistically wasted money, if they employ expensive ones.
BUT, the fact of the matter is that the difference between the best and worst bullpens in usually about 20-25 losses. In other words, a bad bullpen can lose you up to 20-25 more games than the best bullpen, any given year. That’s a hell of a LOT of games!!! While the WAR for the best/worst bullpens in terms of losses doesn’t have a high statistical correlation, last year we had a difference of 26 extra losses attributed to the best/worst pens, yet only a difference of 13 WAR from the best/worst pens in terms of WAR. Again, there is almost no loss/WAR correlation, yet almost two losses for every WAR lost.
And I’m focusing on recorded losses because that is the exact purpose of a good bullpen: keep a lead, prevent a loss… which are recorded if they happen.
Anyway, solid/good/great BP arms are a very valuable asset in terms of putting a W on the board.
Also, there’s a lot of (good/great) young talent that should see some maturation, and therefore progress in the stat lines, and “trickle down” into the wins column.
They had a good one but no bridge to the closer. You need to get outs in the 7th and 8th in these days of 6 inning starts. Having 2 guys that can close is also great insurance. The 2013 Red Sox had 3 closer capable pitchers, maybe 4 if you include Tazawa, and the first 2 went down with injuries. Never undervalue depth in the pen.
I would think Mariner fans should be getting a bit excited about the team. Need one more big bat and they could be in the thick of things for a WC spot
I think your comment is true if you are already a contender. The Mariners do not seem so close to contention to me that they need to have multiple closer options like the Red Sox did last year.
Perhaps I am wrong and they are at a point on the win curve where adding 1 WAR (and potentially more value than that due to higher leverage apperances) makes sense? How many wins do the Mariners project for?
Just one person’s guess, but I would guess they may be in the 80-82 range on many projections? If things go well they could be on the fringes of contention at 87-89, if poorly then they could drop back into the 74-76 range.
(Which can be said for many teams that would project around .500)
The Mariners will surprise a lot of people next year. The obvious additions of Cano and Hart (and Logan Morrison) aside, most people are overlooking the change in their rotation from Saunders, Harang and Bonderman, to Taijuan Walker and James Paxton. Yes, they are unproven starters, and Walker is very young, but there’s no way Walker and Paxton combine to be nearly as bad as those three combined. And I’m one of the few that is very high on the potential of Paxton next year. The second half of last year (minors included) yielded a pitcher who had a statistically significant reduction in his walks, which was the biggest knock on him. It was only four starts in the majors, but in that short time (the end of the season, nonetheless), he had the highest velocity FB of any LHP in the majors… for all starters all season with at least 10 IP. Yes, he could disappoint me, and I’m very aware of that. But he has many indicators that say he will be a stud. In 2014.
This is true, but not only in free agency. It also is true in arbitration. Jeff brought this up, and it’s the first thing I thought of when I saw this deal. The arbitrators go by old school stats (so for relievers, that means saves) and young closers may be the players under club control with the least value in wins/$.
If Rodney racks up saves, he doesn’t get more expensive. But if Farquhar does, he could get 8 figures a year in arbitration. Now I’m not sure, if Jack Z did this on purpose. But if you’re going to have two relief aces, one who was obtained as a free agent for a high seven figure amount, and the other who is young and home grown, it makes sense to use the veteran as the closer and the young fella for high leverage situations before the 9th.
There is a third option of not having a closer.
I don’t know that all of the decisions are Jack Zd.’s, just bear that in mind. Howie the Lincoln is very much an over the shoulder presence. With the Seattle Seahawks the toast of the town, I don’t doubt that Lincoln wants more than ever to have name players off of whose images to leverage his marketing crap.
This is 2008 all over again. ‘Names,’ veterans, bad defense, ‘going for it,’ prospects sidelined, mostly dumb use of money, trades that needed to happen (Smoak, probably a 2nd baseman moved) not done, major area of need (OF) not really addressed even though bodies are thrown out there. I was more positive on this offseason before Rodney was signed. If Nelson Cruz is acquired, I’m pretty much turned off. I don’t expect a roster of mercenaries and failed prospects blocking the guys with real talent and moxie to perform well, but it’s a classic Lincoln construct. Jose Vidro and Carlos Silva didn’t work out so well. Rodney’s better than thame but Cruz would be worse; outcome about the same: sloppy second-place pretensions.
Crack is bad
This allows them to keep Farquhar cheaper for longer and it means that they can push the whole chain back one inning.
And in terms of pushing the chain back, since one reliever is losing a job, how much better is Rodney than the guy pushed out of the pen? For the Mariners that is likewise an important analysis.
If anything they should still probably sign another reliever.
And see if Kendrys wants to play there for peanuts now that they have Cano and Rodney.
I’m not even a Mariners fan.
Yes, Morales would be a great move for them. Another player in the cluster of 1B/DH types.
Sarcasm noted, but signing Morales loses a draft pick for another team, so he may very well get desperate if every other team balks at signing him. He may come “cheap” on a one year contract, and there’s no question the guy has more talent than most of the other 1B/DH types already on the team. He may bring value if we get him back at the right price. But yeah, it would be quite the cluster-fuck at 1B/DH.
Not a bad signing at all. The needed bullpen depth. This noise about Nelson Cruz is stupid. They already got plenty of Cruz types on the roster. Being from Maine I’ve been a Sox Fan since baseball entered my consciousness in the mid eighties. I’m rooting for this Mariners team though. I’m of the mindset they should keep, Miller, Franklin and Ackley as the at bats will come somehow. Play Miller at Short for now and tell Franklin he is going to have to go the “Ben Zobrist.” route. I like their young core as much as anyone’s in baseball……KEEP THEM
Sorry, but telling Franklin to go the “Ben Zobrist” route is like telling Smoak to go the “Joey Votto” route. If it were that simple, every team would have a Zobrist. Instead it seems like one comes down the pike every generation (McDougald, Phillips, Zobrist).
Whatever; Zobrist was coming off a not so good 2008 at age 27 when he started “Zobristing” at 28. We never would have saw that had the Rays not moved him off short and all around the field. My point was not that Nick Franklin is going to be worth 6 WAR on the cheap. It was that trading him does not make much sense unless they get a haul for him…..which they will not. Players get injured and Brad Miller only has a half ear under his belt. As far as Smoak, Franklin might be the better hitter and !B/DH option at this point. Ditto for Logan Morrison, Jesus Montero etc.
Worth 6 WAR on the cheap!
*Chortle*
Position changes didn’t make Ben Zobrist good, he was a mediocre player until he figured it out later than most, and when he did he became so good he was able to play all over the field. His SS defense was adequate and his bat would have made him a stud as a full time shortstop.
I’m a Franklin fan, but he, like Zobrist, needs to take a step forward. He doesn’t have the bat for anything other than middle infield yet. He’s so young it looked to me like he was very likely to turn into a solid second baseman pretty quickly. And I love Cano too, but the idea of spending $240m to replace a super cheap guy likely trending up to 2-3 WAR with a guy trending down from 6-7 WAR seems foolish. But if they can find Nick full time playing time elsewhere where he can be a plus asset, or flip him for good value, I’ll see the wisdom in the Cano deal.
half an ear under his belt! gross!
Valuearb, while I agree, there was also the very real situation of Seattle not being attractive to most FAs. They needed to sign a guy like Cano to open the door for other FAs to start considering us as a landing spot. We had to overpay a little in order to do this, but at least we’re overpaying for a guy like Cano in order to do this, versus a guy like Nelson Cruz. And yes, we may sign Cruz, but not for nearly as long, or as much, and not with the same kind of affect on FAs.
This type of signing makes me nuts… Rodney’s projecting 22.62 earned next year, Farquhar 22.12.Rodney has produced 6.1WAR/571.1IP~0.01 WAR/IP, Farquhar 1.9/55.1~0.034 WAR/IP, thats almost the same as Craig Kimbrel in his rookie campaign! The bullpen doesn’t need more depth, it needs to be managed better. We should have utlilized our $7mm/yr in the starting rotation, allowing us lower LI situations in the third inning when Joe Saunders/Kameron Loe/Hector Noesi/Aaron Harang/Brandon Mauer/Jeremy Bonderman reached his pitch limit. If/When we sign Nelson Cruz, I’m moving to Oakland…
There’s one very big problem with your analysis of Rodney vs Farquhar: Rodney isn’t replacing Farquhar. He’s replacing the worst pitcher in the pen and then everyone else gets moved around.
Your comparison is similar to comparing a #1 SP acquisition to the team’s previous #1. If the Mariners were to magically, miraculously acquire Clayton Kershaw, would it be appropriate to compare his potential performance to Felix and lament on how it’s only a marginal improvement? No, it wouldn’t — there’s more than 1 SP on a team. Just as there’s more than 1 RP
How is Farquhar’s name pronounced? I keep mentally saying “Farkwar” but that seems wrong to me…
That’s correct, like the movie “Shrek”.
Far-ku-har
This gives the Mariners an expectionally deep bullpen.
Farquhar- 1.9 WAR
Rodney- 1.3 WAR
Wilhelmsen- 1.4 WAR
Furbush – 1.1 WAR
I’m not sure why you need more WAR out the bullpen instead of signing say…Chris Capuano.
Or trading a spare DH for say…Michael Pineda.
Sorry.
They can’t all pitch enough to get those kind of WAR numbers, but it is a strong bullpen.
Wilhelmson’s should read .3, not 1.4…
Unless you’re just trying to pick the peak #’s from each reliever, which is really unrealistic.
Its unrealistic to pick the WAR from any given year… players almost never reproduce the previous season statistically. But they can come close to their best, if not surpass it. or they could have their worst season yet. Yay for averages!!!
the rationale of the rodney signing has significant parallels to the oakland trade for jim johnson. at least part of the logic being that the acquisition suppresses the cost of a better, younger incumbent reliever (vis-a-vis ryan cook and farquhar). the saves metric completely distort the arbitration process from a player’s true ability and value. i have to believe, and hope, this loophole in arbitraton gets closed in short order.
Not having a dedicated closer is a far better idea than pissing money away. Maybe move to using your best reliever in the highest leverage spots?
Now there’s a novel idea! You might think 1 out of 30 MLB managers might have thought of that.
Not sure what you’re implying, but closer by committee has been around almost as long as the specialization. Maybe hiring a more competent manager would be a better allocation of resources than spending the money to depress arb awards?
There are a ton of ways to attack this problem rather than hiring a closer at a market rate when your team is bad and full of holes. (Though this does address their shitty bullpen somewhat.)
RE: “pissing money away”
Rodney was worth 1.3 fWAR in 2013 and 2.3 in 2012. His Steamer and Oliver projections have him at .7 and .8, respectively. Given the going rate for $/WAR at around $6M on the whole and much, much, MUCH higher for RP and Closers, I can’t help but wonder how $7M for his recent and projected performance is financially unsound. In fact, it seems like a damn good investment to me. Risky (as all pitchers and especially RP are), but it’s about as good a risk as you can take on an arm.
A lot of response to this signing is of the “since it’s the Mariners it must be dumb” variety. If the A’s or Rays had done it, praise would be showered down upon them for “deepening” their bullpen.
In fact there was a recent article on why the “smart” teams are signing relievers.
A’s, Rays and….Mariners?
“A lot of response to this signing is of the “since it’s the Mariners it must be dumb” variety.”
I have seen very little of this. Defensive guy is defensive.
Until the Mariners prove they’re a contender, they’re wasting money. At least that’s what most people will say/think. I see major improvements in the works for the team in many facets of their team, and I’m one of the few that believe they will surprise many people, and either contend or come close to it. In that respect, I don’t think money spent on good BP help is wasted this off-season. They are signing and promoting talent better than the previous players at said positions, as well as expecting (for good reason) maturation from previously promoted players. They are quite likely the new Pirates, or the new Rays from a few years back. Tell those teams not to invest in a solid bullpen……
but to whatever it is that capriciously claims the effectiveness of relievers with otherwise quality stuff.
And there’s the reason for the signing.
This seems like a really good deal to me. At 7 mil for 2 years its not a pricey deal at all, and strengthens the team in the later innings. Lets face it..its not like Rodney is moving Mo Rivera to the 8th inning here folks. Considering Boone Logan got more guarenteed than Rodney did, its a good value.
Its $14mm for 2yrs and leauge min. for the same production is good value, which we already have…
The best think you could do for the starting staff right now wasn’t to add a good reliever. It was to add an outfielder who can catch the ball, and hit/stay healthy enough to justify a spot in the line-up.
That said, this wasn’t a bad signing, I don’t think.
If ZiPS is to be believed the M’s biggest need was cromulent back-end starting pitchers, and not relievers nor outfielders. Hopefully they’ll go after the aforementioned Capuano, or if they’re determined to forfeit a draft pick, then Jimenez.
It embiggens my heart to heart you talk that way.
First, ZiPS is a joke in my book, and I’m sorry to those who disagree. But the Mariners are currently looking at a rotation of Felix, Iwakuma, Paxton and Walker, who all have #1/#2 upside, plus another one of Scott Baker, Erasmo Ramirez, and Brandon Maurer, most likely. Four studs does not equate to a “need” of a guy like Capuano, or Garza or Jiminez… or Tanaka or Price. The reason they had rumored interest in a pitcher like these was not “need”, but desire. And it was desire predicated on the belief of contention. Why? A contended needs a three man rotation for the playoffs. Walker and Paxton are too young, inexperienced, and ultimately shouldn’t be expected to throw that many innings in 2014, so a veteran would be the “need” if a playoff run was going to be taken seriously.
My first thought on seeing that the Mariners signed Rodney was, “There they go again–overpaying.”
That is still what I think.
If teams had no starters and 20 closers they’d win every day.
Good luck on that if you’re planning on having them all only go one inning.
9 closers one day, 9 closers the next. everyone gets one day of rest and you still have two extra closers for extra innings/match ups.
… and five batters?
that is correct. one of which hits home runs.
all you need is one guy to hit home runs and 20 closers. one catcher. two infielders. two outfielders. provided, of course, one of them hits all the home runs. seriously, i wrote an algorithm. the team with 20 closers always wins.
Wait…one catcher, two infielders, two outfielders and a guy who hits HRs? That’s only 6 position players, 5 if one hits the home runs…so are you just going to put out closers on the field or what?
You could, but you really don’t need more than four guys out there when your pitching’s this good.
The sarcasm is dually noted… 🙂
this is gibberish
My algorithm is flawless, Mr. Beard.