Mariners Trade for Mark Trumbo, Finally
Usually, around this time of year, there still isn’t really much of an active trade market. Not only are teams wrapping up the process of figuring out what they already have — front offices everywhere are dedicated to the draft. Meanwhile, in Seattle, Lloyd McClendon says he’s always being reminded by his analytics department that the team should be okay. And in Arizona, just the other day, Dave Stewart stood by Mark Trumbo, calling him one of the team’s biggest threats. Based on the circumstances, you wouldn’t expect trades, generally. And based on the words, you might’ve figured Trumbo would stay put, and the Mariners would stand pat.
That’s what you get for thinking things. Wednesday afternoon, the following trade was agreed to:
Mariners get:
- Mark Trumbo
- Vidal Nuno
Diamondbacks get:
Interestingly, while Arizona is getting the prospects and selling the main piece, they’re currently closer to a playoff spot than Seattle. But that’s kind of Seattle’s whole reason, and Arizona doesn’t fancy itself a real contender just yet. From the Diamondbacks’ perspective, this relieves a roster crunch, with Jake Lamb coming back and forcing Yasmany Tomas somewhere else. And from the Mariners’ perspective, Mark Trumbo feels like one of the most obvious acquisitions in years. He fits the mold, partially based in truth, of being a dinger machine who doesn’t really do anything else. But as easy and fun as it is to snark, that doesn’t make this a bad trade. And as much thump as Trumbo has, that doesn’t make this a big trade. It’s not actually of great significance, nor is it wildly lopsided.
I understand now that didn’t do a good job of selling the rest of this article. But, I mean, you’re a FanGraphs reader — you already know the perspective on Trumbo. Really strong! Nothing else. The power makes him a decent player, but the flaws keep him from being more than that, and none of the other pieces are shiny. Each could be a role player on a good team one day. You could say that of most professionals.
This might be the most helpful way to put it: I looked at the Mariners’ team projection before and after factoring in the deal. I know they’re just projections, and projections can miss some things, but I’ll take the projections over any individual’s gut feeling. The table shows how little this might matter over the rest of the year:
| Time | Win% | R/G | RA/G | Run Diff. |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Before | 0.531 | 4.29 | 4.01 | 31 |
| After | 0.536 | 4.35 | 4.02 | 36 |
Five runs. A total benefit of five runs, with Nuno getting scattered innings, and Trumbo getting time in four different places. That’s not blowing any socks off. But the benefit could be greater, and the benefit doesn’t need to be limited to just the rest of 2015.
Trumbo has another year of team control, and that’ll cost probably about $10 million. At the moment, he’s 29, and he’s most definitely right-handed. We can look at how the market rewarded right-handed hitters over the winter. Nelson Cruz got four years and $58 million, and the Mariners gave up a draft pick. Billy Butler got three years and $30 million. Michael Cuddyer got two years and $21 million, and the Mets gave up a draft pick. Michael Morse got two years and $16 million. Those obviously aren’t all the same player, but they’re versions of a profile, and you see the value. Considering Trumbo’s age, he’d get more on the market than he’ll be paid before he’s a free agent, so that’s the surplus value.
Despite what Jack Zduriencik says, Trumbo isn’t a good defensive outfielder. He has done well at first base, but first base in Seattle is mostly occupied. This gets into the flawed part of his game — defensively, he’s limited. But he does hit enough to make up for it, much of the time, so the Mariners are going to squeeze him in. I’d figure this spells the end of Rickie Weeks, who was supposed to do what Trumbo ought to do. Dustin Ackley will probably play less, and the same could be said for Justin Ruggiano. There’s not a clear, obvious lane for Trumbo, but he’ll get his time. And he is an overall improvement.
Think about his power for a moment. Trumbo’s power is of the big-boy variety. There are a few Cruz parallels. He’s topped out at a 117 mile-per-hour exit velocity. Based on average air-ball batted-ball velocity, Trumbo right now ranks at the 90th percentile, and many of the balls he hits tend to stay hit. A month ago, Tony wrote about the necessity of big power in Safeco Field, if you’re going to put the ball in the air. Trumbo has that power. He’s a righty bat who should be able to play in Safeco, and those aren’t very common.
The power’ll be good, when it shows up. The defensive ratings will be negative. The OBP will be somewhere around .300. Trumbo could be a starter next year, or he could get traded again. Given his age, he should be fairly reliable. It’s easy to focus on the downsides, but the elite power really does make up for many concerns.
Vidal Nuno is a depth add. He won’t get discussed very much, because attention will go to Trumbo’s power and Vlad Guerrero’s nephew. His fastball tops out around 90 miles per hour, and he’s almost 28, so he isn’t an impact asset. At the same time, this is the underrated part of the trade. The Mariners have had an inconsistent bullpen, and with James Paxton and Hisashi Iwakuma hurt, the rotation depth has disappeared. Nuno, this year, has 19 strikeouts in 14.1 innings, and he maintained good ratios in Triple-A. He’s under team control for a while and he’s a strike-thrower, and the dinger problem could be relieved by Safeco’s environment. Nuno could be a capable starter. Teams spend millions on guys not much better than him.
Flipping it over, Dominic Leone is sort of the piece that replaces Nuno. The Mariners got an older potential starter; the Diamondbacks got a younger potential late-inning reliever. Leone’s stock is down — everyone Arizona’s getting has seen their stock go down — but a season ago, Leone flashed good stuff and promising results. He can throw a hard fastball and while he hasn’t yet figured out left-handed hitters, he has time to do that. If he does do that, he could close. Otherwise, he’ll need to be more carefully spotted, but he’s a tweak away from being able to help again. He’s too young to have had it disappear.
Welington Castillo is just a replacement for Tuffy Gosewisch. Sort of. Arizona also acquired Jarrod Saltalamacchia, and he’s in the process of learning all the pitchers, and they’ll be new to Castillo, too. So it isn’t clear who’ll end up playing more often, but Castillo probably has the better defensive reputation. With Castillo and Saltalamacchia, Arizona will have two guys who’ve handled big workloads in the past.
The prospects are the bigger gets. At least, one of them — that being Gabriel Guerrero. As you can imagine, he’s got tools, and he’s 21 years old. In spring training, he generated some buzz after doing this to a real pitcher:
Kiley ranked Guerrero eighth in the Mariners’ system. Problem is, in his first exposure to Double-A, he’s been lousy, with a sub-.600 OPS. Doesn’t mean it’s the end of the road, for someone with so much talent and so much youth, but Guerrero would be considered a lot less interesting if his name were Martinez, and he’s an obvious longshot. He wasn’t one of Kiley’s top-200 prospects, and his stock has lowered.
Finally, Jack Reinheimer, who’s nearly 23. Kiley ranked him 19th in the Mariners’ system, and he of course also wasn’t a top-200 prospect. He’s a shortstop who might not stay there, and he’s light on power, but he might be one of those fairly safe under-the-radar guys, who stays as a shortstop through pure determination. He probably won’t have a big-league career that takes him off the bench, but a young shortstop is a young shortstop.
Relative to a few months ago, Trumbo’s stock is up. Nuno’s is either up, or it’s stayed the same. Leone’s is down. Castillo’s is down. Guerrero’s is down. Reinheimer’s is down. The optimist would say the Diamondbacks are buying low, but it does feel like a bit of a light return. Trumbo’s a marketable piece, even with his limitations. But there are two things: one, the Diamondbacks were running out of time to clear room, and two, ultimately, this is what the market offered. A Mark Trumbo trade isn’t a blockbuster trade, not within the industry. It’s a trade of a guy who hits right-handed dingers. Maybe, one day, Gabby Guerrero will be hitting right-handed dingers. Maybe he’ll hit more of them.
Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.
Where and how much will Trumbo play this year?
Wow, watching that clip of Guerrero, he looks and has the same mannerisms I remember from Vlad.
I am pleasantly shocked the D Backs are trying to get younger. Not going to catch the Dodgers or Giants this year.
“Based on average air-ball batted-ball velocity, Trumbo right now ranks at the 90th percentile, and many of the balls he hits tend to stay hit.”
Because it’s fun to read Jeff Sullivan articles and then parrot back your favorite phrases.
I liked:
“and he’s most definitely right-handed”
A really weird phrase– maybe for a switch hitter who is significantly worse from the left side?
it was in a different article, maybe about Tulo, but the line was
‘yep, my bat still swings’
in reference to between pitch sequence for batters
Why would he be less interesting if his name were Martinez?
I can’t tell if this is internet snark or not but he’s Vladdy’s nephew.
No I genuinely didn’t know, and thanks.
Usually helps if you read the article…
He won’t get discussed very much, because attention will go to Trumbo’s power and Vlad Guerrero’s nephew.
Oh look! ANOTHER prioritized Mariners article from Sullivan. Yawn.
I know, right? Why didn’t he cover one of the eight other trades that happened yest-oh.
You suck, dude.
Thanks, Captain Obvious!
TLR and Stewart are clearly insane and this is the worst run franchise in eternity.
Yeah, can’t be too happy about this deal if I were a DBs fan. Way more a quantity over quality swap if I were being objective here. If that were the way I was going, I’d have thought they’d be able to slip Hill into a deal like that. Whatever you think about Trumbo he has value at just $6M this year and a final Arb yr in ’16 plus likely to return a pick after that assuming all goes well.
I was trying to be absurd. I think this is a nice deal for the Backs. There was nothing at Catcher after Tuffy went down and I’m betting they sold Trumbo at his peak and bought those MiLBers at a bottom. Despite what the writers here at Fangraphs say, TLR and Stewart are doing an incredibly quick rebuild of that franchise. I think they will make big strides forward next year. That staff is coming together and there is still a hell of a lot of pop in that lineup.
Welp, I never said anything about the job being done by TLR/DS overall. I think they’ve done a spotty job TBH. Some things ok, others pretty questionable. I haven’t trashed them like some here have tho.
I was trying to judge this deal on its own merits, not in context of other things they’ve done.
What quality do you refer to?
I wonder how long Dave Cameron can keep hating on the Dbacks/TLR/DS even though they keep doing a lot of right things for the franchise.
Shouldn’t be too difficult considering he traded a player with actual value for almost nothing useful in return.
Thing is for the Dbacks Trumbo had little value. He was the odd man out and everyone knew it. In this context the Dbacks got a good amount back and saved a good amount of salary. Trumbo’s replacement will provide similar if not better value and we get some pieces on top of that.
Whether he had value to *you* isn’t the important question in determining the quality of the return you get.
Let’s say Chris Sale suddenly has no value to the White Sox, because reasons. They trade him for Stephen Drew. Is this a decent trade, since Sale had no value to the Sox?
Agreed.
Guys who hit home runs, but are slow, play lousy defense and have a low batting are over-valued and over-paid.
Trumbo is of no real value. The Mariners will realize this by the end of the season.
Home runs have a way of clouding people’s judgement. It certainly did in Kevin Tower’s case when he traded away a top prototypical lead-off hitter (Adam Eaton), and a starting pitcher, just to get Trumbo. That was way too much, and subsequently Kevin Towers was fired a few months later.
The D-Backs have outfielders waiting in line who hit better and play better defense. The D-Backs will improve simply because they are doing addition by subtraction.
The fact that they picked up a competent major league catcher they desperately needed and got a good prospect in Guererro,
The D-Backs also followed their pattern they have been doing of acquiring hard throwing pitchers whose stock is down when they got Leone. If they keep doing this, one or two of these guys are going to pan out, and the D-Backs will look like they got a steal.
It was a low risk trade for the D-Backs with potential of high reward if one of these young guys pans out.
Chris Sale no longer needed?
If Chris Sale was no longer needed by the White Sox, then they would have the best pitching rotation in the history of the baseball. If that were true. They could trade Sale for my late grandmother and still win the World Series…
Let’s see, the Dbacks acquired:’
– A catcher with 2.4 and 3.1 fWAR the past 2 full seasons, whom has 2.5 years of control left and fills the Dbacks biggest hole
– A young reliever with plus stuff
– A high upside prospect
– A middle infielder minor league fielder with fringe utility player upside
Fun fact: Castillo has more career fWAR (6.3 to 5.5) and identical bWAR (7.1) than Trumbo despite half the plate appearances.
But you’re right, nothing useful in return.
The TLR/DS are making terrible decisions storyline has finally started to lose momentum around here. It is about damn time as well. Their re-tooling on the fly is going better than I thought possible…
I think it has to do with TLRs trolling of SABR guys and his consistent and powerful criticism of certain specific uses of data (WAR etc) and his utter lack of respect for MONEYBALL.
Please note: TLR is as much about data and analysis as anyone in baseball. He just really really likes to troll people he thinks d oa bad job at the analysis part. If you think TLR is not as up to speed on the raw data as anyone in baseball you just do not understand what he is all about. Similarly, Duncan is not interested in FIP etc. At the same time he is more obsessed with the raw data of pitching and how that can be applied to making pitchers better than anyone else.
The Mariners are usually good at pitching and now they are not bad at hitting dingers, it’s just that they are bad at about everything else. I would have enjoyed playing poker with Jack Z.
DBacks probably shot a toe or two off of Trumbo’s value by letting Hale platoon him. He’s about 60 plate appearances lite from an everyday guy which with Trumbo’s HR rates would have put him around 12 homers (ie. 36 HR pace) to go with his best bavg since his first 2 big seasons with LAA and a significantly improving K rate. That’s what the M’s really bought but some of that value is being overlooked because it was hidden by his reduced playing time.
It was a solid deal for the M’s but I think the DBacks would’ve gotten a bit more of a sure thing prospect with a “36hr pace” Trumbo. In their defense the trade opens the door to have both Lamb and Yasmany in the lineup everyday which is going to be a huge boost. They’ll be fun to watch. Somebody just needs to put a leash on Hale’s overusing Peralta at the expense of either of those two or Pollock.
When I read this, I like the signing more Fly balls between 97.5-100 MPH; .701 AVG-2.368 SLG in Coors, .360 AVG-1.124 SLG in Safeco. While clearly the average field isnt Coors, a guy with high exit velocity such as Trumbo will likely see less of a decline in numbers at Safeco, ala Cruz. Where as Safeco really seems to hurt guys such as Austin Jackson.
I bet Trumbo sees more time at 1B than OF. He’s a better defensive 1B by UZR and DRS than Morrison and has a career WRC+ platoon split of 126/102. Morrison (a lefty) has career splits of 98/112 so a Morrison/Trumbo platoon at 1B nets the team a 1B with a career wRC+ of ~117.
Smith and Cruz are better outfielders than Trumbo as well so when he’s not playing 1B, the M’s would be better served with him at DH. In the depth charts, I’d move Trumbo’s 142 PAs in RF & LF and give them to Smith and Cruz while decreasing both their PAs at DH.
Yes. Trumbo is not an OF. He is a much better 1b. And the platoon is the thing…
Trumbo will do what Weeks was supposed to do??? Huh? Writers on this site tend to think themselves stupid.
I didn’t really understand that part either.
I’m pretty sure he means Trumbo will hit well from the right side and provide poor defense, which is what Weeks was supposed to do. (Weeks has only provided the poor defense to date.)
Mark Trumbo, backup center fielder!
He can back up 3B while he’s at it
I wonder if Guerrero can pitch
Trumbo will still probably hit around 30 HRs. Is that such a bad thing?
How many PAs is that gonna take him?
Jeff: about the 4.06 runs allowed per game. How many innings or time does this projection see Rickie Weeks or Trumbo in LF? regardless of what one thinks of Ruggiano, after they DFA’d him today (instead of Rickie Weeks) the only other of capable of playing CF on the current roster is Dustin Ackley.
Jack Z and Lloyd better buy Jaboo a lot of rum and pray Austin Jackson doesn’t get hurt.
Hey if things don’t go well record wise, maybe Jack can take this team on a barnstorming tour and clean up in the summer softball tournaments.
Unfortunately Without the DH in softball, Jack and Lloyd can’t put their 5 DH’s on the field at once. At least Michael Pineda will have to pitch underhanded and Jesus Montero won’t have to rely on Jack Z’s head scout and can grab his own ice cream sundaes between innings.
Agree w/ folks (who are actually following AZ Dbacks baseball closely) that this is a reasonable/good trade for the Dbacks. Trading Trumbo for Eaton was a bad move when Towers did a couple of seasons ago and trading Trumbo for something now makes a lot of sense. We had to play him for him to have any trade value, but playing hurt us in multiple positions (OF & 3b). Tomas & Lamb are both showing themselves (in addition to Peralta in the OF) as legit major leaguers and will now get to play. They are also more about AZ’s future (2017 & beyond) than Trumbo was ever going to be.
Waiting until you get the (over)value for Trumbo & letting the current position logjam stand in the way of the future would have been something Towers/Gibson would have done, but now the Dbacks are making decisive moves to make themselves better now and in the future.