Nick Madrigal Is Good. Can He Be Great?

Let me get this out of the way: Nick Madrigal is really good at baseball. Or at least, he’s really good at one aspect of it, and that aspect is one of the most important ones. Madrigal’s bat control is borderline otherworldly. Per FanGraphs’ measurements, Madrigal entered Sunday’s contest with a 100% in-zone contact rate. 100%! That’s zero swings and misses in the zone. Nearly 20 games into the season, that’s a remarkable achievement. Arguably more impressive is his 90.2% contact rate out of the zone. When he chases, he still hits the ball. Currently, only 31 qualified hitters have a higher in-zone contact rate than Madrigal has when leaving it. In terms of putting the bat on the baseball, Madrigal is a pure 80. It’s an amazing ability, and it’s one reason that, barring injury, it’s easy to see him hitting .300 or better for the next decade or more.

The question is how valuable can Madrigal be beyond his remarkable ability to make contact. He’s the ultimate “empty average” guy due to an aggressive approach and a complete lack of power. Entering Sunday’s game, Madrigal is a .327 hitter in his young, 47-game career. He has a .757 OPS to go along with that. Again good, but not as good as you’d expect from someone challenging for a batting title. ZIPS sees the weird combination of plusses and minuses and has Madrigal peaking at 2.3 WAR with a 101 OPS+. In order to go from good to really good, Madrigal is going to have to either walk more or hit balls harder, and he has a harder path than most in terms of making either happen.

Scouts call players like Madrigal “early action” players. Swing at a lot of pitches, make a ton of contact. That’s Madrigal in a nutshell. He’s not going to walk, and he’s not going to strike out. In fact, he’s going to do those two things less often than anyone in the game. We’re all familiar with walk and strikeout percentages, but what happens when we combine them? Let’s call it Early Action Percentage:

2021 Early Action Leaders
Player Team Early Action %
Nick Madrigal CHW 8.8%
Kevin Newman PIT 9.8%
David Fletcher LAA 13.8%
Whit Merrifield KCR 15.3%
Jeff McNeil NYM 16.7%
Tommy Edman STL 16.7%
Albert Pujols LAA 17.0%
Miguel Rojas MIA 17.4%
Nicky Lopez KCR 18.3%
Raimel Tapia COL 18.6%

Not only is Madrigal your Early Action leader, he dwarfs much of the competition with an EA% less than half that of those in the bottom part the top 10. So can he walk more? “Maybe” is the best answer, but it’s going to be a real challenge. Teaching plate discipline has been one of player development’s greatest challenges for decades. Numerous methods have been implemented in an attempt to improve a player’s pitch-tracking ability, but none have gotten consistent results. Success stories are few and far between, and have yet to provide any sort of a road map for future work in the area.

Further complicating matters is Madrigal’s unique ability to make contact. Step one in teaching plate disciple is trying to get players to only swing at pitches they can hit, but Madrigal does that now. The problem is he can hit everything. Next, you try to get players to only swing at pitches they can drive. There’s just one problem with that when it comes to Madrigal: he doesn’t drive anything.

Here’s Madrigal ripping a 97 mph fastball from Shohei Ohtani right back up the box for a hard single:

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That’s a nice piece of hitting. Good wood on it, some might say. With a 104 mph exit velocity, it’s also Madrigal’s hardest hit ball going for a knock all year. For reference, 43 different players got a base hit with an exit velocity over 104 mph on Saturday alone, including two (Carlos Correa and Corey Seager) who did it twice on the day.

Now let’s look at Madrigal’s first triple of the year, which was also the first of his career:

Fantastic. Nathan Eovaldi didn’t get a 97 mph heater to the outer edge as much as he’d have liked, and Madrigal ripped it into the corner, using his plus speed to take three bases. It’s wonderful, but it’s also Madrigal’s hardest hit ball in the air all year, with an exit velocity of 98 mph. Madrigal doesn’t have power. Scouts should use the entirety of the 20-80 scale, but they’re reticent to drop a 20 on anything — it’s just too harsh. Still, look at this spray chart of Madrigal’s hits in 2021.

If that’s not 20 power, what is?

It’s going to be a challenge to get Madrigal to walk more, and there’s little indication of power, or of more coming. But let’s experiment with potential improvements anyway and see what it takes for Madrigal to take the next step forward.

From 2018-20, 28 second baseman accumulated 1,000 or more plate appearances. Madrigal’s career OPS of .757 is firmly above average. But what would it take to be very good, or even great? Among those 28 second basemen, the 10th best OPS is .792. Let’s call a top 10 placement very good. The fifth best is .834. Let’s call that great. Now, let’s try to get Madrigal to those levels.

Have Him Hit More

Nobody is going to be surprised if Madrigal hits .333 at some point, but at his current walk and power rates, that alone isn’t going to get him to our very good or great levels:

Adding Hits
Madrigal Additions AB H 2B 3B HR BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS
Actual Career 168 55 6 2 0 8 9 .327 .370 .387 .757
Hits to .792 +3 1B 168 58 6 2 0 8 9 .345 .387 .405 .792
Hits to .834 +5 1B, + 1 2B 168 61 7 2 0 8 9 .363 .403 .429 .832

As you can see, giving him three more hits puts him in the top 10 with an OPS of exactly .792. But a .345 batting average is a heavy ask unless you are Tony Gwynn; Madrigal is really good, he’s not Tony Gwynn. And to get to great, Madrigal needs to be peak Gwynn. Just slapping a few balls around is not a realistic path for Madrigal becoming a top 10 second baseman. He’s going to have to add a secondary skill.

Have Him Walk More

There are probably some realistic advances he could make in terms of plate discipline but without any increases in the slugging department, Madrigal can’t just improve his walk rate; he’d need to become a very patient hitter.

Adding Walks
Madrigal Additions AB H 2B 3B HR BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS
Actual Career 168 55 6 2 0 8 9 .327 .370 .387 .757
BB to 792 +11 BB 168 55 6 2 0 19 9 .327 .406 .387 .793
BB to 834 +25 BB 168 55 6 2 0 33 9 .327 .447 .387 .834

That’s not just asking for a few improvements in strike-zone discipline; that’s asking for a walk rate to nearly double, which is just flat out unrealistic. To get into the top five, he suddenly needs to channel Kevin Youkilis.

Add a Little Pop

A few extra base hits is the best way to move the OPS needle . . .

Adding Power
Madrigal Additions AB H 2B 3B HR BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS
Actual Career 168 55 6 2 0 8 9 .327 .370 .387 .757
Power to 792 +2 HR 168 55 9 2 1 8 9 .327 .370 .423 .793
Power to 834 +4 2B + 3 HR 168 55 10 2 3 8 9 .327 .370 .464 .834

The move to .792 feels possible. Three more doubles and wrapping one around the pole gets him there. Getting into the top 10 feels like a bigger challenge. Madrigal is just 24 years old and it’s not unreasonable to see him developing 30 power down the road, but considering that spray chart and his current exit velocities, him becoming a double-digit home run threat would take an exceptionally unexpected change in skills.

Putting It All Together

Instead of getting him to greatly increase his production in one area, some minor improvements across multiple channels seems like a more realistic approach to getting Madrigal to star-level production. For the sake of this exercise, I focused on secondary skills, as despite the impressive talent on display, I have trouble asking anyone to get more than one hit for every three at-bats.

The Combo Platter
Madrigal Additions AB H 2B 3B HR BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS
Actual Career 168 55 6 2 0 8 9 .327 .370 .387 .757
Combo to 792 +1 HR +5 BB 168 55 6 2 1 13 9 .327 .387 .405 .792
Combo to 834 +2 2B +2 HR + 5BB 168 56 8 2 2 13 9 .333 .392 .440 .833

To get him into the top 10, Madrigal just needs to go deep once every six weeks. He doesn’t need to become a walker per se, but being at least a threat to walk would help. This formula to getting to a .792 OPS makes Madrigal a top 10 offensive performer for his position. To get him to true star level would take a an unrealistic amount of power, crazy as it sounds to call a home run rate around 1.0% unrealistic. But it shows that even when hitting for a top-of-the-scale average, it’s hard to be a star without doing something, anything else to complement that eye-popping average.

Nick Madrigal is good, and he’s likely to be good for a very long time. But any route to greatness is a tougher road than for most. The path to power is a difficult one, and the path to walks depends on telling a player with phenomenal contact ability to lay off pitches he can actually hit. Good players are tough to find, and the White Sox found one in Madrigal when they made him the fourth overall pick in the 2018 draft. But finding greatness in a unique skillset presents an equally unique and significant challenge.





Kevin Goldstein is a National Writer at FanGraphs.

100 Comments
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ianhamm
5 years ago

Good read. Very informative

hombremomento
5 years ago

You look at Madrigal, and he’s obviously a great baseball player. Lots of contact, lots of speed, and very good defense- you make him closer to league average in power and OBP, you’ve got a 3-tool player who’s gonna benefit you on every part of the game

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  hombremomento

Madrigal passes the eye test, but good luck trying to prove that his baserunning and defense are above average. OAA thinks he’s average on defense (and other, less reliable defensive metrics hate him) and he gets caught stealing about as often as he steals a base.

He’s a one-tool player, maybe a one-half-tool player if you think it’s just the bat control and not the full hit tool that makes him special. But that tool is pretty amazing.

MikeSMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

He has 60 speed and 60 fielding grades, but so far he ahs been poor defensively and on the base paths. Those aren’t really skills you expect to improve dramatically with experience, but it’s important to remember that he has played 48 major league ball games. Maybe he just needs to adjust to the speed of the Major Leagues because otherwise, those are pretty big misses on scouting and those things should be easier to scout than hitting.

I’m disappointed in those aspects of his game so far, but it is really weird that the talent that would mature and translate to MLB fastest is his bat-to-ball skills. You would think hitting major league pitching would be harder to adjust to than fielding and throwing major league ground balls.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  MikeS

Looking at that information, I would take the opposite lesson of out of this. I think this just means he hasn’t peaked yet in terms of his bat-to-ball skills and that he’s gonna hit .400 someday.

hombremomento
5 years ago
Reply to  MikeS

Yeah I wouldn’t expect him to come out the gates as any elite defender, absolutely a disappointing start that if he DOES overcome, he’ll prove to be relatively valuable

jacob2Member since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  MikeS

Almost all the issues in those two facets have come from mental mistakes which are definitely fixable, at least potentially. The scouts told us not to expect him to make those kinds of mistakes, so for now I’m optimistic that he’ll clean it up. I don’t think he’s going to be a basestealer, though.

Michael E Haddad
5 years ago
Reply to  jacob2

I was going to post the same point. I think he is trying to hard and maybe some nerves. Second base is NOT MLB in the NFL, the game isn’t that much faster that you forget how to field or run the bases. He’s still a rookie, technically. I bet you he is a plus defender/baserunner before too long even though the only elite skill he may ever have is BA.

marcotomas
5 years ago
Reply to  MikeS

Why not? I’ve always thought fielding and baserunning are exactly the kind of skills that do improve with experience? In other words, the talent is there, he just needs to make better decisions and be more consistent. That comes with experience.

burning_phoneix
5 years ago
Reply to  MikeS

The only reason he’s been poor defensively is because of some early season errors. He’s been highly regarded for his glove ever since college and within the minor leagues. He hasn’t been hiding at an alternate site, if he was booting routine plays all the time in the minors it would have been reported on.

jacob2Member since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I’d exercise some more patience on the defense. I’m not saying it’s definitely a plus, but for the most part the only defects I’ve seen are simple mistakes that were not projected by scouts. Maybe he keeps making those mistakes and he’s just not as good as advertised or maybe he cleans it up and turns out pretty good.

evo34Member since 2023
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I suspect the first 50 games of defensive data are virtually meaningless in predicting a player’s career defensive value. So that remains to be seen. More concerning is his baserunning, which almost always peaks at the start of a career. I’m rooting for him to become a plus defender and average hitter, but the chance of flaming out into a utility guy is real.

Dmjn53
5 years ago
Reply to  hombremomento

Well that’s kind of the point of the article. It’s not easy to get him to league average power or a league average walk rate

casey jMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

51 BBs in 628 ABs in the minor leagues
58 BBs in 612 Abs in the NCAA

Those results look like a player with plenty enough batting eye to get into hitters counts, and get on base. I don’t see getting to an average walk rate as being unforeseeable at all.

grandbranyanMember since 2017
5 years ago

Madrigal is fascinating, but I’m not sure he’s even good yet.

0.4 fWAR / 0.7 bWAR in 181 PAs so far prorates out to like 1.5 to 2.5 wins over a full season depending on which WAR you prefer & how many PAs you consider a full season.

I probably would have gone with “Nick Madrigal Is Cromulent. Can He Embiggen His Production?” instead.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  grandbranyan

I think UZR and DRS might be a bit too harsh on Madrigal’s defense–OAA doesn’t think he’s necessarily plus there this year but also doesn’t see him as a liability.

2 wins is good anyway, as far as I’m concerned.

PC1970Member since 2024
5 years ago
Reply to  grandbranyan

What’s interesting is a lot of the low WAR is due to defense/baserunning. fWAR views him as well below average defensively…& in baserunning, too. In both 2020 & 2021/

mikecws91
5 years ago
Reply to  grandbranyan

His defense and baserunning are also supposed to be strengths, but they’ve both been surprisingly poor in the majors so far. If he can shore those up and keep hitting like this, I think he’s a 3 WAR player, although his ceiling isn’t much higher than that.

Michael E Haddad
5 years ago
Reply to  grandbranyan

This past week he entered into good territory for the first time. He’s settled in on D and hitting the ball harder than I’ve ever seen him hit. Best bet is it’s a trend. check back in a month to see if I was right.

NATS FanMember since 2018
5 years ago

Very cool

PC1970Member since 2024
5 years ago

Very interesting article.

Is OPS the right tool to use? Most people on this site probably know the issues with just adding together OBP, which can max at 1.000 & slg %, which can max at 4.000… esp when OBP is more important than slg % & should likely be weighted more.

I’d guess that OPS is a little unfair to Madrigal due to that. I’d love to see wRC+ & how far he is away from the same standards using that.

Mahoney
5 years ago

Also, OPS translates nicely to a “report card” grade for hitting. Madrigal’s hitting is about a “C” grade at .757, becomes a “C+” at .792, and is a solid “B” at .834. And second basemen with hitting grades of “B” are super valuable if their defense and speed are at least on par with their peers.

PC1970Member since 2024
5 years ago

Understood..wRC would definitely require way more work & a much harder explanation.

burning_phoneix
5 years ago

I would think fangraphs would be a website where I could come for more advanced baseball analysis than just OPS. By this logic FG should stop publishing articles referring to WAR because that takes to long to explain. wRC+ is listed on every player’s fangraph’s page and I can easily rank all positions by wRC+.

Nick Madrigal is currently 7th among all 2Bs in wRC+

Jonathan Vander LugtMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

I take your point, but IIRC, OPS and wRC+ are very very very correlated. Probably enough that it doesn’t take away from the gist of this post

texag
5 years ago

Second basemen with at least 150 ABs the past two years, Madrigal ranks 17th in OPS. Using that same criteria, he is tied for 10th in wRC+. I think the point being made is valid that for a guy who is as contact oriented as Madrigal is, using OBP and slugging as a metric is probably less viable than wRC+. I get that it’s easier to do the math in an article format but based on wRC+, Madrigal is already in the “very good” category which makes part of this article irrelevant.

Bartolo Cologne
5 years ago

Thanks for the fascinating read. I thought that the Early Action chart was cool. I also guessed that Fletcher, Merrifield, and McNeil would all be on it before looking, but it really highlights what a unicorn Madrigal is.

I see two big issues for Madrigal with regards to trying to improve walks and power. The first, of course, is that adjustments are never made in a vacuum, and trying for more patience or greater power will almost certainly result in less contact overall, which currently drives the value he does provide. For the purposes of the article, Kevin focuses on what he’d need to add in these departments to improve, but in real life, he probably couldn’t add those things without them detracting from his base game, pushing the goalposts further away.

The second is that, with a player who has 20-grade power, if he becomes more patient, I’m not sure it will result in pitchers walking him more. Right now, they will pitch him out of the zone because he will swing at it. But if he stops swinging at it while still not improving his power, there isn’t any risk to pitching in the zone. In most ABs, a pitcher would happily risk a single for a good shot at an out.

casey jMember since 2019
5 years ago

Good thoughts, but I think that if a player is GREAT at hitting with two strikes, being more elective will just have him hitting more often with a 3-2 count, rather than a 1-2 count. This will result in a better pitch to hit, better results, and more walks (if the pitcher just misses 3-2).

Also, if he gets ahead 3-1 more he can take a bigger rip on that pitch, and if he fouls it back, he can still hit 3-2. I see less of a downside for him being selective than for other players. Other player do not want to get to 2-strikes, he does, relatively speaking.

marcotomas
5 years ago

Well said. Every adjustment has a trade off and it’s not clear that increasing his walk RATE would actually increase his overall OBP in a meaningful way, given those trade offs. Seeing how easily he makes contact, I feel like he’d just end up giving up singles/doubles to get more walks, and go from .327/.370 to something like .315/.375.

carterMember since 2020
5 years ago

I realize it doesn’t go any lower than 20, but I have a hard time picturing him wrapping one around the foul pole even 2x in a season. He just doesn’t hit the ball that far. And even his doubles are usually balls that are in front of the outfielders rolling foul.

soundwaveshelloMember since 2020
5 years ago

I wonder how the Sox feel about sending him more. In 2019, Madrigal stole 35 bases while being thrown out 13 times, good for a 72.9% success rate. He’s got the speed.

If he can carry anything close to that success rate over to the major league level, that’s a viable second tool for him. It wouldn’t show up in OPS neatly, but that would move his speed adjusted slugging percentage up significantly.

MikeSMember since 2020
5 years ago

If he hits 9th and has some combo of Anderson, Moncada, Abreu, Robert and (eventually) Jimenez coming up, they aren’t going to want to risk giving away many outs when all those guys can score him from first. Although Moncada’s iso is currently lower than Madrigal’s.

Dmjn53
5 years ago

72% isn’t particularly good. One could argue that’s not even breaking even

jacob2Member since 2020
5 years ago

TBH at least with the way the game is played now, he may be better off not trying to steal and just building his baserunning value by using his speed to take extra bases judiciously. Most of his problems on the basepaths have been misguided attempts to take extra bases.

Michael E Haddad
5 years ago

For better or probably worse, Larussa is sending Yerwin with Vaughn at the plate, stealing and it’s suboptimal value will be with us all year. Tony doesn’t beleive in analytics and it sucks but as a WS fan I’ve decided to look past it so it doesn’t ruin my enjoyment. Simply put, the WS will lead the majors in Stolen base attempts and Madrigal will be a big part of it.

We ran ourselves out of big innings this weekend and it’s just getting started.

carterMember since 2020
5 years ago

72.9 % in the minor leagues is very bad. Maybe if he could do that at the MLB level, but tons of guys run in the minors then cannot run at the mlb level. He is a hustler, 27.8 sprint speed is solid as his home to first at 4.31 from the right side. His speed is more quickness however, as he has yet to have a bolt. With that said peak speed has little correlation to stolen bases, it is more about acceleration.

southsiders
5 years ago

I agree. Stealing 2nd often at more than an 80% clip could really add to his value and help make up for a lack of SLG

proiste
5 years ago

As an enthusiastic Ben Revere fan, I’m excited that Madrigal has accepted the mantle.

Will his batting average be higher than his wOBA? Can he have the lowest wRC+ ever while batting over .330? How many seasons will it take him to hit a homer? There’s no shortage of fun questions to ask!

Mahoney
5 years ago
Reply to  proiste

So glad you brought up Revere and the batting average > wOBA. Madrigal’s the current best bet to make that happen.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago

I have a dream that Nick Madrigal swings more and walks less, entering that .345-.363 BA zone. This very specific dream has him whacking about 200 hits a year for 15 years and then Jay Jaffe has to write about his hall of fame case as he closes in on 3,000 hits with only 12 home runs.

To do this, he probably needs to average one hit per every three plate appearances in his early career–that gives him a bit of wiggle room for injuries and things tailing off later on. So far this year he’s squeezing out 28%, but last year he was at 32%. Upping the number of hits he gets in the scenario mentioned here would more or less get him there, too. But even then , we’re talking about him taking until age 39 at that pace to get to 3,000 hits.

Bartolo Cologne
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Alright, I see you making the aggressive prediction for 9 career inside the park home runs. Very bold.

PC1970Member since 2024
5 years ago

and the other 3 off of or just inside the Pesky Pole in Fenway!

D-WizMember since 2019
5 years ago

He only has 46 plate appearances this year so I’m guessing he didn’t qualify based on whatever cutoff was used, but so far Willians Astudillo has an Early Action % of 4.3%!!!

Pwn Shop
5 years ago
Reply to  D-Wiz

Thanks for this I was wondering why he wasn’t on that leaderboard! Viva La Tortuga!

carterMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  D-Wiz

Astudillo is interesting, and I bet we write an article about him later on this year. While his approach is still “swing” he is certainly swinging harder and elevating the ball a lot better than he did early in his career. Hell he falls down to a knee on about half his swings. I think there is a lot more power in the bat than people initially thought.

BryzMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  carter

It’s just a shame that he’s popping up so frequently (currently 23.1% of his fly balls).

FrodoBeck
5 years ago

I think one thing to consider is that trying to get more power out of him will definitely result in a lesser BA on the front end. It’s the same question you have to ask about anybody: is it worth it to try to sell out for more power for this guy? If Madrigal starts swinging harder and whiffing more, do the power gains offset the loss in BA? (I use BA bc for him OBP basically *is* his BA).

So when we up his power in this article, but keep his BA the same, it doesn’t seem like a realistic end result. But maybe that was just the purpose of the article and I’m trying to do too much.

PC1970Member since 2024
5 years ago
Reply to  FrodoBeck

No doubt. Sort of reminds me of Bill James commentary on old Royals speedster Willie Wilson. He wasn’t satisfied hitting .330 with 1-2 HR, so after a couple of years, he sold out for power & ended up hitting .270 with 5 HR & a bunch of F9’s for his troubles.

Kevin was just trying to demonstrate how hard it would be for Madrigal to improve to very good based on his skill set, but, yeah, he would likely lose some BA, possibly a significant amount if he sold out for more power.

joe_schlabotnik
5 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

or foolish baseball’s video on ichiro actively deciding to forgo power

jacob2Member since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  FrodoBeck

I think the core question is whether he actually gets more power from an adjustment to his approach or does he just hit the ball equally hard but with more whiffs and more fly balls. Since he doesn’t hit fly balls hard enough to get homers very often, it could backfire big time. On the other hand, if he has a “power swing” that would let him make harder contact, maybe it could work. But if I was the Sox I would probably just let him be what he wants to be.

Michael
5 years ago

Appreciated the deep dive!

Mahoney
5 years ago

If Madrigal keeps on having an ISO more than 2x Joey Gallo’s, that should do the trick. 🙂

Jonathan Vander LugtMember since 2016
5 years ago

Cool read Kevin. One question:

Can you fill in the blank? Should Madrigal stay exactly the same and be a .750 OPS or 2.5 WAR hitter for the duration of his service time (12ish WAR), that will result in a __th-percentile outcome for a #4 overall pick.

TieranMember since 2023
5 years ago

Madrigal just has to maximize his BABIP by going oppo a lot and hitting a ton of line drives- both things he’s always done at a high rate in the minors. That’s his pathway to stardom. It’s not an easy one but it’s the most direct one when he has zero power and its likely impossible for him to walk much when he only hits singles.

Dmjn53
5 years ago
Reply to  Tieran

I don’t think that’s a viable pathway to stardom though. Maybe that gets him to something like a .330/.390/.420 line, which is very good but also nowhere near what could be reasonably considered a star

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

That line looks very good when the game has a .232/.310/.390 this year.

TheGarrettCooperFanClub
5 years ago

Quality post, thanks KG.

Art Fay
5 years ago

Isn’t it possible that the whole concept of evaluating Madrigal with OPS is wrong? While I think he ends up slugging way more doubles and triples than most think, power just isn’t his game.

Not sure where to start, but how good is a #9 hitter that hits .330-.350 with an OBP close to .400 and NEVER strikes out?

Without looking, that has to be the best #9 hitter of all time, no?

burning_phoneix
5 years ago
Reply to  Art Fay

It is wrong. Madrigal’s wRC+ is 124 currently which makes this entire article kinda moot.

sullivank124Member since 2017
5 years ago

Great stuff. I’m surprised you didn’t mention the indirect increase to slugging if you steal a base, effectively turning singles into doubles.

Can you calculate a hypothetical OPS if say Madrigal steals 30% of the time he is on-base at different levels of successful conversion rates?

Granted Madrigal is not as efficient as he should be right now but that typically improves with experience and that is something that is definitely in his tool set. He’s not a burner but he possesses good acceleration and is a smart player with the capability of learning to get great jumps.

sullivank124Member since 2017
5 years ago
Reply to  sullivank124

i.e. at what BA, what percent of steal attempt, and what steal conversion rate do you need to reach that OPS benchmark?

casey jMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  sullivank124

Slugging is a way to measure a players ability to clear other batters off of the bases, as well as drive himself in with a home run. A steal doesn’t increase slugging n that way. Its an increase in secondary offense, its something, but a real double can score three runners if the bases are loaded.

sullivank124Member since 2017
5 years ago
Reply to  casey j

That’s a valid point but I think it’s dual: it’s both a measure to get RBIs and a measure of a player’s ability to put themselves in scoring position.

casey jMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  sullivank124

In a way that’s true but the inclusion of homers makes clearing the bases its primary use. It would be interesting if you were officially credited with a double if a player swiped second though. Now THAT might increase steals lol

Tim MurphyMember since 2017
5 years ago

I’d like to see him develop with the glove. Yolmer Sanchez was a 2WAR player with next to no hitting ability. Current Madrigal + a solid glove at 2nd makes for a really good ballplayer even without elite offense.

sadmanMember since 2020
5 years ago

I like Nick Madrigal and I like Kevin Goldstein, so this article is a win-win for me.

casey jMember since 2019
5 years ago

When Tony Gwynn was 23, he hit .309 .355 .372. I ca n imagine a similar article being written about him. haha.

Also, I would not describe a young player who makes a lot of contact showing an increase in power from ages 24-28+ as being “unprecedented”, Id describe it as entirely routine and predictable.

Also, Madrigal had a 29 ISO last year, and its 107 so far this year. He’s fine.

Also, Madrigal is slugging .415 and his average is .308. I think his other pathway to a higher slugging is MORE SINGLES. He can really really hit the ball.

mhartzell415Member since 2025
5 years ago

Not mentioned here is that it’s tough to walk more when pitchers are pounding the zone against you. Madrigal’s 46.6% zone-rate this season is 12th-highest amongst 168 qualified hitters. And I don’t see that changing given his lack of power.

casey jMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  mhartzell415

It will change. He is a dangerous hitter, late in a game with runners on base. Pitchers will catch on, and Madrigals eye is actually pretty decent. Id say walks going up is more likely than not.

51 BBs in 628 ABs ion the minors
58 BBs in 612 ABs in NCAA play

He’ll take a walk if you pitch around him, and yes there will be reason to do so.

marcotomas
5 years ago

Without a doubt the last option is the most likely. And it really isn’t THAT absurd to think he could pop off a few HRs and end up with 5-7 by year’s end. Keep in mind, in the heat of June/July/August, you could hit a ping pong ball out of that ball park. If Leury Garcia can 9 HRs in a utility role, Madrigal should be able to hit 7 playing 2B everyday.

But this article kind of misses a big point: the White Sox don’t need Madrigal to be a “great” hitter in that lineup. Above average will do just fine for now. And as his defense becomes more consistent, he could be a reliable 3-win player for much of his career (with a potential ASG somewhere in there if he can hot early and hit .360 into July). He’s basically the high-floor, low-ceiling guy everyone expected him to be.

casey jMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  marcotomas

I do not see the low-ceiling part, especially after what he has showed already. I’ve seen superstars not hit in their first 48 games in the show, lots of them.

marcotomas
5 years ago
Reply to  casey j

I guess, it’s low in the “relative” sense. And it’s not that it’s impossible for him to develop into a star, it’s just hard to imagine him developing into anything more than a 3-4 win player, given the extreme lack of power. Even peak Andrelton Simmons, who played an otherworldly shortstop (some consider him the best of all time) capped out at about 5 wins while posting solid offensive numbers (106 wRC+) and a BA around .300. I guess my point is: defense and contact skills, even when elite, can only take you so far.

casey jMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  marcotomas

I feel ya. I heard this about Ozzie Albies though, I swear I did. “He will; never develop power”. Hitters usually, predictably, do. And shit, I’ll take 5 WAR. He could also be the next Ichiro, by the way. . .the outlier, great great hitter at hitting singles. Ichiro had several seasons around 5 WAR, and his career high in homers was 13, averaging about 7 a year. Madrigals main challenges there will be tightening up his defense and baserunning game, which I think will with experience.

rhdx
5 years ago

Great article. I do think it is fair to believe that Madrigal can get a little bit better at everything over the next year and that the path to 792 isn’t that onerous. I agree that it will be really hard to go much past that though. Given that he still had high grades on baserunning and defense, I think his path to ‘really good’ is clear.

Soxfan2
5 years ago

I made a bet with my buddy that madrigal would hit over 1.5 homeruns this year. I am genuinely curious if he will do it. My friend doesn’t read Fangraphs and doesn’t know about the projection systems. Steamer has him in for 5 (!) homers and Zips has him in for 3. The BAT is projecting 0.

How many homers do you all think he will end with this year?

dl80Member since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Soxfan2

1

rhdx
5 years ago
Reply to  dl80

1.4

casey jMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  Soxfan2

I think he’ll slug a few as the as the summer goes on. I’ll go with 7

Michael E Haddad
5 years ago

I just signed up so I could support the cause. It’s amazing how many WS fans make fun of him and bash on what you left out, his highly touted D/baserunning has been really bad so far. My belief is he ends up being really good all around player that has even more value in what’s becoming a 3 true outcome game.

I’m not sure he averages a HR a year even though I think he will hit a decent amount of doubles/triples. I don’t think he’s hit the warning track on a fly yet but this weekend he not only smashed a game winning double over a drawn in outfield, but lined some hits which isn’t a regular thing. In other words, right after you wrote this he did the type of things that raise his ceiling.

Jason BMember since 2017
5 years ago

By the way – when I saw this article listed on the main page and it had 70 comments, my immediate thought was “oh good lord what political quagmire has someone stepped into…”

And I am so pleased to report that (thus far) the answer is “none”! Just fun baseball talk of Ben Revere, speed scores, 3000 hits, and Willie Wilson.

I don’t begrudge anyone their platform to speak about whatever is on their mind (except maybe that FELONY FRAUD guy from a couple years back, remember him?) but it’s so fun to have real meaningful (and yet also totally meaningless) baseball to sit back, enjoy, and discuss with like-minded baseball nerds into the dog days of summer…

LenFuegoMember since 2025
5 years ago

So if Astudillo sent away to Acme for some Leg Muscle Vitamins, a la Wile E. Coyote, he would be Madrigal?

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
5 years ago

When league average hitting drops from .252 in the last full season, 2019, to .232 this year all of a sudden .333 looks a lot better. OBP this year is a pathetic .310 and I have yet to see a walk score a man from 2nd or move a man from 1st to 3rd. When hits disappear, every hit becomes far more valuable than a walk.

rubesandbabes
5 years ago

Kinda ‘hard’ to read a story centered around a guy’s bat control.

I like Madrigal because his name reminds me of Nick Nightingale – a character from a movie I can’t quite remember.

Gooo Baseball!

thecoracleMember since 2020
5 years ago

Can you say more about what teams have tried when it comes to teaching plate discipline? Maybe a future article topic?

Keith Olson
5 years ago

I really liked this article – it’s quite thought provoking and might be a great feature to apply this concept to other players as well.

A few thoughts:
– I wonder if too many teams let the perfect be the enemy of the good when they approach player development. it seems like having a relatively low risk floor of good is incredibly valuable.
– I’d be interested in looking at Madrigal’s batted ball results for different exit velo stratas. i watch almost all the Sox games and see his ABs a lot. It seems like his results are actually worse when he hits the ball harder especially on hits in the air because they carry further and become flyball outs. I’ve never looked at numbers on this, so it may be just anecdotal and I am totally wrong. The triple is a good example because he got lucky with the vector on that – if it’s hit a few feet away from the line its an easy out and that happens to him a lot on some of his harder shots.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Keith Olson

Yeah his high liners that are hit a bit harder are often caught because the outfielders are playing him so shallow so a 200 foot, 15 degree liner hit at 95 mph that usually is a hit is often an out for him because they only stand like 220 ft deep.

peterj
5 years ago
Reply to  Dominikk85

He has not hit a ball between 10 degrees and 16 degrees so far this year. If he would change his approach from hitting his +95 exit velocity balls in the 0 to 9 LA bracket to the 10 to 16 LA bracket it would dramatically increase his productivity. No need to change his swing plane which might increase Ks, just lay of the low out of zone breaking balls.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  peterj

He hit some at 14, 15 and 16 this year but there is a gap between 10 and 14.

brood550
5 years ago

Madrigal is so much fun to watch battling pitchers. Nothing better than watching a “Pesky” hitter.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
5 years ago

Apart from the lack of power the real issue is that madrigal has been a below average baserunner (-5 runs on fg bsr rating) and defender (-4.3 uzr 150 for his career so far).

The plate discipline is fine (about average chase rate) and his lack of walks more a result of pitchers not respecting his power (who cares if he walks or hits a single so you can just throw down the pipe if you fall behind).

obviously the lack of power has been a disappointment so far (was never a power hitter but scouts expected a 10-12 bomb player and not a der Gordon type of power guy who hits 3 bombs a year) but even that version could be a 3.5 war player if he has the advertised plus baserunning and defense but that just wasn’t there yet.

I wonder how correctable that is. His baserunning I think Will be fine, he ran into some dumb outs by being over agressive but his arm looks really weak. Hopefully that can be improved because if he is a 300/350/400 hitter that is not terrible but if it comes with negative defense that is not good.

casey jMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  Dominikk85

When he bats, are there NEVER runners on second base or third base? If a player is one of the most likely to get a knock, there are certainly going to be times you would pitch him carefully. Also there have been quite a few players who have drawn walks and didn.t have pop. I think walks will become a bigger part of his game

Dominikk85Member since 2020
5 years ago

BTW I’m still amazed how little power he has. Eric thought he would eventually grow into 15+ Homer power and while I thought this was optimistic I would have thought it would be 10 at least.

Last year there were reports he gained 15 pounds of muscle but it didn’t help either.

It also isn’t just something correctable like bat path (albeit his launch angle is low too) but his exit velos are actually in the dee Gordon territory which is pretty bad.

Last year statcast had one at 112 but looking at the video that must have been a miss read (was like a 2 hop grounder).

I looked at his mechanics and he has an extremely stiff spine in his load, his hand and hip load are totally not connected.

I compared him to David Wright and you see that madrigals upper body doesn’t move at all while Wright twists his spine like a a snake.

Not saying that is great to do it as extreme as Wright who had to quit due to a spine injury but madrigal gets nothing out of his upper body there.
https://twitter.com/dominikkeul/status/1380564451292762121?s=19

casey jMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  Dominikk85

Like Ichiro? Leave his swing be lol. He’s also played 48 games. Take a look sometime at the list of big league stars and superstars who stunk in their first 48 games. I’m very encouraged he’s done this well with the level of pitching arms in the bigs today.

jjkim83
5 years ago

Could Madrigal with more discipline be… Luis Arraez?

chisoxmatt
5 years ago

This is a great article, thank you. But #2 hitters dont need power( although it could be a plus.) Id be happy with .330 average, tons of contact and 40 doubles, 20 plus sb,hitting #2 for the Sox for the years to come.

Dave from DCMember since 2018
5 years ago

Is it just me, or did Renfroe take a really weird angle on that triple? He ran parallel to the rolling ball for a while….

Joey CaltrainMember since 2019
5 years ago

How about defense and baserunning? Those are his strong secondary skills to go with the bat. An Arenado-level defender who put up even an empty .327 batting average and stole a fair number of bases would be a star, right?

chisoxmatt
5 years ago

If Madrigal does indeed triple his walks and gain power we are looking at Joe Morgan. With his batting eye and bat control it is possible.

Dave from DCMember since 2018
5 years ago
Reply to  chisoxmatt

I get supporting your guy, but the whole point of this article is that significant improvements in power or walk rate are unlikely. 40 doubles? Doubtful.