Noah Syndergaard Is Aroldis Chapman Now
Aroldis Chapman was supposed to be a starter. Maybe supposed is a strong word, but when he debuted in professional baseball as a 22-year-old out of Cuba in Triple-A, he did so as a starting pitcher, and if not for injuries to then-Reds closer Ryan Madson and a handful of other Cincinnati relief pitchers, the club seemed prepared to have Chapman open the 2012 season in the starting rotation.
But those injuries happened, and Chapman instead returned to the bullpen, where he’d pitched for the previous season and a half. He returned to the bullpen, he was handed the keys to the ninth inning, and he hasn’t given them back since. Watching Chapman on the baseball field in the ninth inning has been a treat all these years, but it’s always felt like something of a missed opportunity. Sure, we see the 104 mph fastball and the strikeout rates over 50%, but it’s almost felt like cheating, in a sense. It’s all still remarkable, yeah, but this is a guy who could start, throwing just one inning at a time.
Don’t we all want to see what he could do if he came out in the first and pitched as deep as he could every game? Aren’t we curious how much of the stuff would carry over during the transition? Wouldn’t it be fun if Chapman didn’t lose anything, and routinely threw six or seven innings with the same caliber stuff he throws in the ninth? At some point over the last couple years, we’ve all accepted the fact that we’d probably never get to see it in action, Aroldis Chapman the starter.
And then Noah Syndergaard made his first start of the 2016 season.
I presume you’ve heard tell of Syndergaard’s season debut against the Royals. I presume, at the very least, that you’ve seen a couple .gifs or memes. He got 16 swings and misses in six innings against the best contact team in baseball; only once all last year did the Royals exceed that number. Syndergaard’s numbers were great, and the Mets won, but something bigger than that happened. I don’t think much more than this needs to be said: Syndergaard threw 25 sinkers, and those 25 sinkers averaged 98.5 mph, per Brooks Baseball. Sinkers.
Do you even know what a sinker at 99 looks like? If you’ve ever seen Kelvin Herrera pitch, then yeah, I guess you do, but do you even know what a sinker at 99 looks like from a guy who’s already thrown 75 pitches? I didn’t, either. It looks like this:
The 10 hardest sinkers in baseball last year, on average, were these:
- Kelvin Herrera, 98.4
- Jumbo Diaz, 98.0
- Jeurys Familia, 97.8
- Noah Syndergaard, 97.7
- Jake Diekman, 97.6
- Zach Britton, 97.1
- Blake Treinen, 97.1
- Tommy Hunter, 97.0
- Hector Rondon, 96.9
- Trevor Gott, 96.7
One thing you might notice about that group is that there’s nine relief pitchers. There should be 10 relief pitchers, because relief pitchers who throw an inning at a time and can always pitch with maximum intent should always inhabit the top spots on a velocity leaderboard. Except, Noah Syndergaard went and got in the way.
Already, Syndergaard was one of baseball’s hardest throwers. He entered the league that way. He entered the league a hard-thrower, and a good pitcher, and a young pitcher, and we wondered where he might go from there. A logical line of thinking is that Syndergaard might improve his command. He might learn how to sequence his pitches better. He might focus on improving an offspeed pitch. And while all of that might also be true, the most obvious step forward that Syndergaard appears to have taken is that he’s throwing even harder. He went and added a full tick to a sinker that was already the fourth-hardest sinker in baseball. It didn’t seem possible that he was doing what he was doing last year. How do you describe the improbability of something when impossible no longer cuts it?
Let’s say everyone who pitched last year carries over their 2015 velocity, and Syndergaard maintains last night’s velocity. His sinker would be the hardest-thrown sinker in baseball, relievers included. His slider would be the hardest-thrown slider in baseball, relievers included. His changeup would be the hardest-thrown changeup in baseball, relievers included.
We haven’t even gotten to the craziest part of the night. A moment of silence, for Kendrys Morales:
Those were Syndergaard’s final three pitches of the night. Those were sliders, at 95, 93, and 93. Those were sliders that Morales swung at and missed, not because he chased, like most batters do when they swing and miss at a slider, but because he couldn’t catch up to them. Noah Syndergaard is throwing sliders past people.
PITCHf/x called the first one at 95 a fastball, and you can’t blame it. It’s not used to sliders at 95. But looking at the movement with both my eyes and in the data, I’m fairly certain it was a slider, too, and after the game, David Wright confirmed:
“I looked up on the scoreboard and see 94, 95. I go ask [catcher] Travis d’Arnaud what those pitches were, and he’s talking about sliders. That’s unheard of.”
He’s absolutely right. It is unheard of. Even Chapman’s slider averages 88. Last year, Syndergaard’s own slider averaged 88. Now, it’s sitting 92, and somehow touching 95. Syndergaard has taken things to a new level.
Eno talked to a bunch of Met pitchers last July about the slider taught to them by pitching coach Dan Warthen. At the time, Syndergaard was just fiddling around with it. By the time the playoffs rolled around, Syndergaard was flashing it as a weapon. Yesterday, it was his second-most thrown pitch, and it was coming in four miles per hour faster than we last saw it. Think of how ridiculous that sounds, especially given our subject. Syndergaard used the slider for eight swinging strikes yesterday. Syndergaard used the slider for eight swinging strikes all of last year. The movement is different, too, with less vertical drop now than last season, and maybe a bit more cut. It looks less like a curveball, and more like its own pitch. One that nobody else in baseball can throw.
Look at the last .gif of the Morales at-bat, the 93 mph slider that got Syndergaard out of a bases-loaded jam. It’s not a particularly well-located pitch, and it’s got less movement than the first two. Morales swung through it anyway. Even Syndergaard stands to benefit from more velocity. It makes the hitter more uncomfortable. It gives the pitcher more room for error. Syndergaard throws that same 0-2 slider at 88, like last year, and maybe it gets crushed, and we’ve got a whole different game. But Syndergaard didn’t throw it 88. He threw it 93, like he threw the rest of his sliders, and they were untouchable.
It took a couple years to get used to Aroldis Chapman doing what he does. It was such a jarring shock to the system. Then, more and more relievers started touching 100, and it took some time to get used to that, too. Now, the starters are catching up. One, in particular, moreso than the rest. It shouldn’t be possible for a pitcher to throw like Aroldis Chapman for six innings or more. Looks like we might have to get used to that, too.
August used to cover the Indians for MLB and ohio.com, but now he's here and thinks writing these in the third person is weird. So you can reach me on Twitter @AugustFG_ or e-mail at august.fagerstrom@fangraphs.com.
As baseball fans, regardless of religious beliefs, we need to collectively pray for Syndergaard’s continued good health. We may be witnessing the beginning of one of the greatest careers in the history of the game, on the order of Mr. Trout in Anaheim. Or LA. Or wherever we’re supposed to say they play.
Amen.
It’s funny that you say that, because, speaking as a lifelong Met fan, this is wonderful and almost surreal to watch, but the neurotic, ‘we can’t have nice things’ part of me is waiting for his right arm to fall off.
I am right where you are. Always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Life of a Mets fan!
Not this Mets fan. 😉
So, like Clayton Kershaw?
Sure, if that’s how you want to frame it. Aren’t you glad we’ve gotten Clayton Kershaw? At this point in his career, as fans of baseball in general, we should have been hoping for the same thing as we hope for Syndergaard now.
I am glad that we have Kershaw. And it is exciting to watch a player like Thor and wonder about his potential. As a baseball fan, I want to see exciting players have great careers and reach their potential. This is true for Thor even though I am a phillies fan. A high 90s sinker from a starter is crazy stuff. So is a low to mid 90s slider that somehow seems more slider-y than cutter-y. Still, is his upside more than Harvey’s was a few years’ back? What about Strasburg? Fernandez? DeGrom? I’m just a bit hesitant to anoint someone as the next pitching Mike Trout (the next Kershaw). I do join your prayer for health.
That’s a good question actually. How many pitchers around today might we say have Clayton Kershaw upside, and how many have better-than-Kershaw upside? In this case, I am defining upside as “at least a 5% chance of reaching it.”
Here are pitchers who I think probably have a real upside to be better than Kershaw is right now:
-Thor
-Jose Fernandez
-Sale
-Giolito (may have the stuff to do it but less than a 5% chance of making it happen)
I mean, anyone else? Even that might be too generous, because honestly, Maddux, Johnson, and Pedro are the only pitchers I would definitely say have pitched at a distinctly higher level than Kershaw is right now.
I know it’s a few years off, but what about Espinoza?
I would add deGrom. Not sure I agree with the “distinctly higher level” comment for any of the three all-time greats you named. But, if you think that Johnson, Maddux and Pedro’s peak was truly inarguably better than Kershaw’s, I think you should probably include Koufax in that list.
@Ghostofmeek
deGrom I think has a small shot at Kershaw-upside, but I can’t imagine him possibly being *better* than Kershaw is now.
* Johnson – Arguable, but he twice had a FIP- in the mid-40’s, and I give him more credit for durability because he pitched in the 2000’s
* Pedro – his 1999-2000 was, IMO, the best any pitcher has ever pitched, so, yeah.
* Maddux – I give him full credit for those incredible ERA’s during 1994-1995, and for averaging 8 IP a start, I don’t think Kershaw has ever pitched at that level.
* Koufax – Kershaw has twice topped his career-best ERA- and twice blown away his career-best FIP-. Koufax’s main advantage comes from counting stats, and that comes from pitching in 60’s when pitchers threw forever. I consider Kershaw now, in terms of effectiveness, a little better than Koufax was.
@Bip
I think I agree with all of this, especially if the conversation is just about peak. (Which it probably should be since we don’t know Kershaw’s longevity). Also, just checked Johnson’s career out again and my goodness those 4 straight (deserved) Cys from ages 35-38 where his lowest SO total was 334
Ghostofmeek —
Last year’s Kershaw was pretty amazing. But 99-00 Pedro was putting up those numbers in a profoundly more favorable hitting environment. That’s probably the best two season run of the modern era, if not all time.
From 99-01, Randy Johnson *averaged* ~12 1/2 strikeouts per nine. And had achieved great control in the bargain. If it weren’t for Pedro, we’d be talking about *that* run as the greatest ever.
I could see Kershaw, with a long and durable career, displacing Maddux from his spot on the list. But that’s something that remains to be seen.
Not mentioned is Roger Clemens… I get it, but still…
@Devizier excluding Clemens wasn’t actually commentary, I actually just think that he never sustained a performance level better than Kershaw’s current level. The thing that makes Clemens so special is that he maintained that level for so freaking long. He basically pitched like an ace for 20 straight years.
I don’t really believe anyone has better-than-kershaw upside. He’s by farrrr the best pitcher the MLB has had since Martinez retired. Better-than-Kershaw would be an absolute generational talent.
Maybe these guys can put together a season that equals Kershaw’s best years, but in terms of the astounding combination of consistency, health, and dominance, I don’t think it’s really possible to have a better modern pitcher than Kershaw.
That said, of all the pitchers in the MLB right now, Syndegaard’s the only one of those guys I can see being on that level. No one else has the ridiculous, never-before-seen stuff, health, and youth. JoFer has his injury problems, Giolito is just not as good, Sale’s on the tail end of his prime. I wouldn’t be surprised for him to put together a Kershaw-like run of dominance. Anything more than that is wayy too unrealistic.
@duncanmorrow
I don’t know that I agree with this, but the rest of your comment I think is quite possibly true.
@Bip
Eh, he’s 27 and he hasn’t really put up a Kershaw season yet. He’s put up some real fuckin’ elite seasons, but he’s running out of time to be “better than Kershaw” and he hasn’t even been as good as Kershaw.
He’s like the love child of Jeff Weaver and Pedro Martinez!
Best slider ever?
I’m no expert, but Randy Johnson?
RJ’s slider caused a lot of good LH hitters to take a day off when facing him. It was terrifying the way it broke left to right.
Agreed, he is roughly 4,700 strikeouts away from being in that conversation.
Oh man. I’m fairly certain I recall a RH hitter or two that swung at RJ sliders that ended up hitting them.
I’m fairly certain there were a few RH hit batters who should have been run up on strike three!
Watched a lot of his starts for the DBacks and he probably hit 2-3 RH hitters a year on the right foot on swings.
Oh, man. He’s a reliever, but once when Dellin Betances faced the Cubs in 2014, there was one lefty who swung at, and was hit by, a slider TWICE IN A ROW.
Mr. Snappy!
Didn’t Rob Dibble hit 98 with his slider?
No
I saw a lot of things from Thor yesterday. He’s fantastic, already one of the best in the game today.
What I didn’t see (on Tuesday or Sunday) was any kind of retaliation attempt that was foretold by Newsday and used by a handful of columnists to hammer the Royals as “what’s wrong with baseball.”
Sometimes the media can be awful. Both the Mets and Royals were saying that there would be no retaliation, but beat writers were still obsessed with commenting on it. I get they want to generate stories, but they were directly contradicted by the best sources available. That’s just shitty journalism.
Desperate attempt to concoct a narrative beyond the box score. My favorite team got beat by an awesome pitcher with a ridiculous slider (which I vote we call “Mjolnir”) who answered by simply being better – respect! I’ll gladly take that as the narrative.
of all the jays prospects that AA traded away, Thor is literally the only one I care about. He was my favorite prospect when we traded him, and I love seeing him dominate even more than I hoped he would.
But I guess now we’re going to see other pitchers trying out the Dan Warthen Slider, no? Maybe we can try to guess which other loose armed flamethrowers could successfully add this pitch to their arsenal.
Maybe Noah can teach his old fellow flamethrowing teammate Aaron Sanchez to throw it? I can dream at least.
which other pitchers might be able to take advantage of this?
I feel bad for you and the other Jays fans for losing Thor. At least you got some semblance of value for him, unlike when my Red Sox gave away Bagwell.
here’s the thing: the red sox are a club that can and will buy their way out of these situations. the jays aren’t.
I’d argue that the Jays have more money than the Red Sox, certainly the owners are richer. They just aren’t willing to spend the same due to corporate ownership.
what “situation”?
Yeah, they got Dickey. For Syndergaard and D’arnaud. Sigh. It’d be different if they’d won something with Dickey while Syndergaard was working his way through the minors, but they didn’t.
No Josh thole love?
Those are incredible pitches, but I would not call it a slider, it has grip+fingers spin and not too much of wrist action which makes it more of a cutter like Arrieta’s but harder.
The last pitch, with the 0-2 count you can tell Morales is looking offspeed and could not catch up to the cutter (which didn’t move much since it was thrown outside)
Cutters, sliders, and curves are all sometimes just arbitrary points on a spectrum. IMO his “slider” is somewhere between a cutter and a slider and his “curve” is somewhere between a curve and a slider. A lot of it comes down to vertical movement. A true cutter may have almost as much rise as a four-seamer, while the Platonic curveball probably drops as much as the fastball rises, with a slider right in between. His curve is within the low end of the slider range, and his cutter is more like the high end of the slider range as well.
My favorite thing to do when looking at a pitcher doing something unusual is to check the movement, which, in my observation, can have an independent effect on effectiveness as great as velocity.
1. His sinker doesn’t seem to “sink” at all. It’s rise, at least yesterday, was the same as his four-seam, at over 9 inches. This is consistent with what it looks like in the gif, which doesn’t look like a sinking fastball to me. It had around 5 more inches of tail than the four-seam, making it seem more like a regular two-seamer which might not, under other circumstances, be labeled as a sinker.
2. His changeup had about 4 inches less rise and 7 inches more tail than his four-seamer, and was as fast as another pitcher’s sinker at about 90. However, since that is a big velocity difference for him, those are definitely changeups.
3. The slider has even less rise than the change, 6 less than the fastball. Considering he throws it even harder than the change and yet gets an even bigger movement differential, this could be a great pitch. It’s almost more like a cutter, not just because of its absolute speed, but because…
4. His curveball actually barely drops at all, -0.6 last year and 1.1 yesterday, which is similar to what a lot of other pitchers get on their slider. If he threw 92 an this curve came in at 77, I might be less enthused about it, but at 81, serving as a change of pace for 98, I think it will do.
I don’t follow the Mets very closely, so I am only familiar with what Thor has done in the majors. When I look at him, everything about him screams ace to me. He sits at 96, one of (if not the) hardest thrower in baseball. He’s got 3 pitches, now 4 with the slider. He seems to be able to command all of them. And yet if we go back only a year ago to the top 200 prospects on Fangraphs, Kiley McDaniel wrote this:
“Syndergaard was just starting to grow into his 6-foot-6, 240 lb. frame when the Blue Jays took him in the 2010 sandwich round as a late pop-up arm off many teams’ radars, due to a velocity spike before the draft. He has shot through the minors, reaching Triple-A by 21 while growing a few inches, putting on lots of strength, developing his command and having his stuff explode. He was dealt in a package with Travis d’Arnaud from Toronto in the R.A. Dickey trade in December of 2012. He now sits 93-97 with heavy life and hits 98 mph with a curveball that is mostly above average, but still varies outing to outing. Syndergaard also has been more open to using his changeup than Matt Harvey and Zack Wheeler at the same stage, with the pitch flashing above average pretty consistently already. Syndergaard’s weakness is a lack of a consistent plus secondary pitch, but he does everything well and will get a big league look in 2015 with a good chance to reach his mid-rotation potential.”
Now I’m not faulting Kiley here – I think he is/was fantastic. Prospect valuation is an inexact science, and he wasn’t the only one the say Syndergaard will be good-not-great. But my question is, what changed? What did Thor do differently in the majors, that he didn’t do in the minors? The slider is one, but he didn’t really have it last year and he was still dominant. Did the curve go from being fringe to plus? Changeup? When a guy turns into a legit #1 (which I think he is), I’d love to see some type of postmortem done.
What all the Mets young starters are doing differently is throwing a 90 mph slider. Matz may be next.
But the thing is, Thor wasn’t really throwing the slider last year. And yet he was still able to pitch to the tune of 3.25 FIP over 150 IP with a 5.35 K/BB. If those numbers aren’t that of a #1, then they’re damn close. My guess is maybe the curve? Did it go from a 50-55 grade pitch, as it says on his page, to a 60-65 grade pitch? Maybe he’s showing better command than he did in the minors? I can’t really say, and these are questions that can’t really be answered with numbers available to me.
The curve still isn’t what makes him special, it’s just a fourth or fifth pitch that he mixes in. It’s the Warthen slider and improvements to velocity and command and movement on his fastball(s).
There are a few things. First, even with that, he was still rated one of the best pitching prospects in baseball. You’ll just see very few actual “#1 upside” tags given to anyone in the minors. It’s just the nature of that type of forecasting, the error bars are high enough that it’s just not meaningful to talk in those terms.
With Syndergaard specifically, he was primarily a two pitch pitcher even early last year, and had some bumps in the road when he first came up. He wasn’t getting many swings and misses despite the plus fastball-curve combo through his first ~5 starts.
There were a number of things things he did between this report and the end of last year that really changed his profile, roughly in order:
1. He added velocity. He went from 93-97 to 96-100. That’s a big difference. This jump happened mostly last year–he came up hitting 99 and 100 with some regularity. Even then the fastball was pretty straight though, which still held back his profile. There was some “Eovaldi” type concern, that even though he could pound the zone, he wasn’t deceptive and it there was still some question as to whether he could consistently command pitches within the zone.
2. Started throwing a two seam fastball. He did this mostly in the majors and had almost no trouble figuring it out, and it doesn’t even seem to cost him velocity. This was the big thing that helped him develop more consistency in the last few months of the season. He throws both two and four seamers now and as true distinct pitches.
3. Learned the slider. He did this late last year, and while it helped and looked like a big league pitch very quickly, it wasn’t really what we were seeing yesterday.
(this article covers the progress he made through last year, which is basically what we have to this point http://mets.locals.baseballprospectus.com/2016/03/29/a-mightier-thor-noah-syndergaard-improved-pitches-warthen-slider/)
4. Slider showed off the charts velocity, which happened yesterday.
5. Commanded his changeup. This, again, was pretty new yesterday. He seemed to throw his changeup and slider even more than his curve, and he was spotting the changeup, which was something he’d never really consistently shown even within a start (mostly because he just didn’t throw it that much and mostly threw fastballs, curves, and late last year, sliders).
Having a 1.8 BB/9 or something stupid like that helps immensely. Thor was part of a rotation that walked fewer batters than any in league. That’s a good way to pump up your numbers.
Yeah, Matz is throwing it too, now: http://www.faketeams.com/2015/9/29/9412983/a-look-at-steven-matzs-new-pitch-the-devastating-warthen-slider
Kiley McDaniel’s whiffed a few times on Mets pitchers, for whatever reason. Maybe the pitcher development system has just extracted more performance from latent potential than expected. He called Matz a #4, maybe #3, with a 55 fastball – a projection Matz has already gone past. Syndergaard’s gained velocity, harnessed two well above average breaking pitches (curve+slider), switched from a 4-seamer to a 2-seamer as his primary fastball early in 2015, and is getting more comfortable with his changeup.
The other main improvement vs 2014 has been his composure on the mound. In 2014, the year many expected Syndergaard to debut, Viola and Backman, his pitching coach and manager in AAA, noted shortcomings in mental toughness. As a result, his Major League debut was pushed back to the following season. 2015 is when he learned to work through those tough innings without losing it. It showed in the playoffs, and he shined yesterday – striking out the side after a leadoff triple and maintaining composure after a couple of defensive miscues to keep KC off the board.
Matz has a total of 36 MLB innings.
You have described approach changes that could have had any impact on a forecaster’s evaluation.
Yeah I was going to say the same thing about matz, his xfip was in line with a 3rd starters in his 36 innings. He was basically Jason hammell with a better strand rate. He wasn’t even very good in the playoffs, so it’s certainly to early to annoying him anything.
keith law started the underrating of thor long ago, and it stuck, despite his demolition of every level at a very young age.
noah’s weaknesses were highly exaggerated – having inconsistent secondary offerings is something that was true of much more highly rated prospects with much less impressive primary tools and production than thor always had.
Kiley McD crapped on our pitchers pretty regularly. I’m not surprised he whiffed, giving Thor a “mid-rotation” ceiling when anybody and their mom could tell you a guy who manbeast throwing and commanding 98 has a higher ceiling than “mid-rotation”. How many mid-rotation guys in baseball throw 98 with exceptional command?
There’s no edit button, but I’m sure you can figure out what I meant
I never got the impression that Kiley knew what he was talking about, tbh. Kid sure worked his butt off, though.
I have seen very very few prospect analysts throw “ace-upside” labels on anyone. There are a whole lot of pitching prospects who throw gas, and anyone who can sit at 95 can probably be an ace if everything goes right. Any prospector who dreams of ace-performance on all of these guys is going to get run out of town for crying wolf before long.
I mean, guys, calm down, Syndergaard was always one of the absolute top pitching prospects, and now he’s coming up and performing. What are you complaining about?
Everyone, always, thinks their favorite team’s top prospect is underrated. It’s either pure homerism or a misunderstanding about how conservative the scouting world is about tagging prospects as future superstars.
So we should expect all pitchers to keep improving velo? He went from 93-97 to 96-100 which improves his fastball grade, then he goes and adds a whole new above average pitch, of course the report changes. You can’t project adding velocity to a guy sitting 93-97 already, and you can’t predict them just picking up a pitch they have never thrown before and taking to it. If any pitcher adds a plus pitch out of nowhere it will improve their fv grade.
He said frontline potential. That is certainly better than mid rotation upside.
I remember reading somewhere that he had ace potential. I drafted him in spring of 2014 in a Strat League because of that. It was probably before Kiley was here. I’m actually pretty sure it was KLaw… either that or Jason Parks… but I do remember reading good things.
Is it possible that Kiley meant mid-rotation on the future Mets more than mid-rotation for an average team? In that last top 200, he put Syndergaard as a FV 60 which wouldn’t be your typical mid-rotation pitcher.
Of the ~100 pitchers on that list only Urias [65], Giolito [65] and Rondon [65] were higher.
Kiley gave Syndergaard a 65 before 2014, which he labeled 2/3 with low #2 upside. I mean sure, we can say in hindsight that he underrated Thor but that misses the points that:
– How few starting pitching prospect got grades of 65 or greater from Kiley (at the time only Thor and Rondon got a 65 out of 13 teams…and looking further both Giolito and Urias received 65s as well)
– How much Syndergaard did genuinely improve last year
So basically, he viewed Syndergaard as one of the best pitching prospects in the game if you go by his FV scores, before witnessing any of the strides Syndergaard made in 2015.
I have little issue with underrating pitching prospects as a general practice, since being an ace at the MLB level always requires more than just stuff and MILB performance.
What changed? Mostly, the Warthen slider. Some other stuff too — he developed a good changeup and some variations added a little movement to the fastball — but the Warthen slider is the obvious answer.
The short answer is he has great command. He doesn’t walk people, and he doesn’t give up hard contact leading to a HR problem. Most young pitchers come up and either walk everyone and their mother (Wheeler, Harvey sort of) or just give up way too many HR. There’s also a “getting out of big spots” component that most young guys struggle with. Thor gave up a lead off triple yesterday to the same guy who opened up the world series against this same team with an inside the park home run. And how did he respond? He struck out the side. That’s something you might see from a 4th year ace, but it’s not something you see from the new kid on the block. Basically, Thor came up having already learned most of the stuff Harvey, deGrom, Wheeler, and every other young future-ace has to learn on the job. Most guys can’t do all this AND learn a brand new pitch (the Warthen Slider) that they have mastered in less than a year. It’s stupid. Most people just aren’t this good at learning new stuff.
A big part of the issue is that because of the environment of the PCL pitchers can’t really throw breaking balls and at the time Thor’s best pitch was his curve. You can’t really develop a slider or a curve there. If he’d played elsewhere I think the write up would have been different cause he had a nasty 12-6 curve when we got him and ditched it when he got to vegas.
Thanks for GIFfing the Morales at-bat. I was shaking my head in amazement to watch it — that 95mph slider was something new even from Syndergaard, as Gary Cohen and Ron Darling were quick to point out on the broadcast. Even as a Mets fan I was feeling a little bad for Morales after that AB, the pitch was positively unfair.
For those of you old enough to remember the April Fools’ article about a pitcher named Sidd Finch, a NY Mets prospect, it looks like Noah comes close to fitting that bill.
Nate Jones and Arquimedes Caminero threw 147 and 140 sinkers last year, at 97.9 and 97.3 respectively. I wish you’d set the threshold at 100 instead of 200 sinkers, mainly because I find Arquimedes Caminero and mentions of him entertaining.
Disclaimer: Mets fan
Thor’s caution sign last year was his tendency to give up the long ball (19HR in 150 Inn). When he was struggling a bit in August, he was giving up 1-2 HR per game. Several of them came with men on base, and thus he had and ERA near 5 for the month.
If he can keep a few of those in the park with sinkers and sliders mixed in with the 98mph fastballs, he will be in the CY conversation.
If you just look at one factor, it is pretty damning- here are all SPs, min 120 IP, 2011-2015 grouped by HR/9:
HR9 ERA- FIP-
1.39 115 115
1.10 104 105
0.95 97 97
0.79 93 93
0.58 83 82
Ignore everything else and maybe Syndergaards’ 88 ERA- and 84 FIP- look pretty suspect. Lets expand to HR9, BB9, SO9 and HARD% — here are the 10 most similar:
ERA- FIP- Season Name
88 84 2015 Noah Syndergaard
93 82 2015 Corey Kluber
85 80 2012 Cole Hamels
87 73 2013 Chris Sale
76 78 2014 Zack Greinke
96 94 2011 Yovani Gallardo
88 73 2015 Chris Sale
87 89 2015 Jacob deGrom
80 78 2012 Cliff Lee
81 79 2012 Roy Halladay
87 75 2012 Jake Peavy