Padres Acquire Musgrove To Further Bolster Pitching

On (day of week), the Padres acquired (talented pitcher) from the (spendthrift team) in exchange for a seeming pittance, including (name of decent but not overwhelming Padres prospect). Now, surely, AJ Preller is done. Or is he?

Oh, hello there! Sorry about that. That’s actually the Mad Libs-esque form that I normally use to cover Padres pitching transactions. Today, I’ve got some details for you. It’s Joe Musgrove heading to the best weather in baseball, Hudson Head and Endy Rodriguez highlighting the group headed out (in a three-team trade involving the Pirates and Mets), and Andrew Friedman gently whispering words of affirmation to himself: “We’ll still win the long game, we’ll still win the long game, the Dodger Way can’t be beat.”

Musgrove isn’t an ace, at least not in the way that new teammates Yu Darvish and Blake Snell are. He would have been Pittsburgh’s number one starter this year, which isn’t the same thing. In San Diego, he’ll slot in as the Padres fourth starter. Let the words of Anakin Skywalker speak for the rest of the NL West: “This is outrageous! It’s unfair!”

Seriously, take a look at our Depth Charts predictions for the Padre rotation:

Padres Rotation (proj. 2021)
Pitcher IP ERA FIP WAR
Yu Darvish 184 3.52 3.56 4.0
Blake Snell 166 3.45 3.56 3.5
Dinelson Lamet 150 3.61 3.60 3.1
Joe Musgrove 171 4.11 4.01 3.2
Chris Paddack 103 3.96 4.05 1.6
MacKenzie Gore 84 4.22 4.39 1.1

There simply aren’t other teams throwing out pitchers like Musgrove after a whopping three other pitchers. We think that the Padres, Yankees, and Mets will accrue roughly equal value from starting pitchers next year, but the New York teams are doing it with Gerrit Cole and Jacob deGrom, the consensus best two pitchers in the game. Yu Darvish is nice, but not that nice. The Padres are building their own Death Star rotation, and they’re doing it with volume.

Two years ago, Musgrove didn’t seem likely to become such a lucrative trade chip. He was just okay on the Astros before they shipped him off to Pennsylvania, and his first start in black and gold was delayed nearly two months by injury. He was quietly effective upon his return to the rotation, though, and built on that season with a strong 2019.

You Aren't a FanGraphs Member
It looks like you aren't yet a FanGraphs Member (or aren't logged in). We aren't mad, just disappointed.
We get it. You want to read this article. But before we let you get back to it, we'd like to point out a few of the good reasons why you should become a Member.
1. Ad Free viewing! We won't bug you with this ad, or any other.
2. Unlimited articles! Non-Members only get to read 10 free articles a month. Members never get cut off.
3. Dark mode and Classic mode!
4. Custom player page dashboards! Choose the player cards you want, in the order you want them.
5. One-click data exports! Export our projections and leaderboards for your personal projects.
6. Remove the photos on the home page! (Honestly, this doesn't sound so great to us, but some people wanted it, and we like to give our Members what they want.)
7. Even more Steamer projections! We have handedness, percentile, and context neutral projections available for Members only.
8. Get FanGraphs Walk-Off, a customized year end review! Find out exactly how you used FanGraphs this year, and how that compares to other Members. Don't be a victim of FOMO.
9. A weekly mailbag column, exclusively for Members.
10. Help support FanGraphs and our entire staff! Our Members provide us with critical resources to improve the site and deliver new features!
We hope you'll consider a Membership today, for yourself or as a gift! And we realize this has been an awfully long sales pitch, so we've also removed all the other ads in this article. We didn't want to overdo it.

What does Musgrove do well? When he’s right, two things in particular: he throws hard and embarrasses hitters with a huge, two-plane curveball. Batters swung and missed at nearly 20% of his curves, and if you care about how often they made contact when they swung, it looks even better:

Best Curveball Whiff/Swing%, 2020
Pitcher Whiff/Swing%
Blake Snell 61.8%
James Karinchak 56.3%
Joe Musgrove 53.2%
Tyler Glasnow 52.8%
Shane Bieber 51.5%
Drew Smyly 50.0%
Gerrit Cole 48.6%
Pierce Johnson 48.1%
Griffin Canning 47.1%
Robbie Ray 47.0%

That curve is my favorite Musgrove pitch, but his slider is nearly as effective; batters came up empty on 50.6% of their swings against it. With two knockout secondary offerings, Musgrove made an obvious adjustment in 2020: he threw his fastball less and both breaking balls more. In fact, he threw his curveball 20% of the time after never previously using it even 10% of the time.

Not only was Musgrove lethal when batters swung, he was effective at inducing those swings. When he threw a breaking ball outside of the strike zone, batters swung more than a third of the time (36.7%), in the top quarter of all starters. Simply put, throwing junk more often unlocked a new and previously unseen level of swing-and-miss filth.

One downside: by throwing more secondary pitches, Musgrove ended up in longer counts, which pushed his walk rate upward. He ended up in 3-1 counts against 8% of the batters he faced and 3-2 counts against 13%, both career highs. In total, his walk rate bloomed to 9.6% from a previously stingy 5.4%.

You can walk more batters if you strike more out, and Musgrove was on the right side of that tradeoff last year. His 33.1% strikeout rate was a career high by a mile and a top 10 rate in the game among pitchers who threw at least 30 innings. Topping Cole, Darvish, and Max Scherzer in strikeout rate after years living around league average is a good way to turn heads, even if you walk a few extra batters in the bargain.

Of course, Musgrove did all of this in eight starts, an even more abbreviated season than most pitchers threw. Our projections are skeptical that he’ll maintain the huge strikeout rate increase. Even if you disregard the results from 2020, though, the process still looks good: more of his good pitches, fewer of his bad ones, and a velocity increase when he returned from his early-season Injured List stint.

In addition to his burgeoning game, Musgrove comes at a bargain rate. He already agreed to a $4.45 million salary with the Pirates for this year, and he’ll undergo arbitration again next offseason. That’s two seasons of excellent pitching at journeyman rates, something every team in baseball would love to have, even if Musgrove doesn’t quite reach our lofty projections.

To pry two years worth of Musgrove goodness out of Pittsburgh, San Diego is sending a veritable potpourri of prospects back. In what’s becoming a pattern for them, however, they’re dealing in quantity rather than high-end quality, sending five players out but keeping the upper echelon of the farm system intact.

Hudson Head, the alliteratively named centerpiece of the deal, was a third-round draft pick with a first-round signing bonus in 2019. He fits a mold shared by many recent Padres draft picks — interesting high school prospects whose stock soared in the year they were drafted. Despite limited looks against high-level pitching, he impressed in the AZL in 2019, hitting .283/.383/.417 against tough competition.

Lead prospect analyst Eric Longenhagen saw Head in fall instructs this year, and the whole package didn’t work quite as well. He struggled tracking pitches and catching up to fastballs, leading to an ugly time at the plate. Longenhagen notes that Head has added a toe tap since being drafted, but that his struggles appear more layoff-related than mechanical.

If you’re willing to throw out a rough stretch of at-bats, there’s a lot to like about Head. He’s fast enough to handle center and is a great athlete — one of the reasons he was a late riser in the draft is because he split time between baseball and football. He’s also ambidextrous, which probably helps somewhere. He’s the headliner for Pittsburgh, and Eric thinks he still profiles as an old-school leadoff hitter, though with elevated risk given his 2020 struggles.

David Bednar is a strange duck, a relief-only prospect with three solid pitches. He sits in the mid-90s with a 12-6 curveball, a classic profile, but Longenhagen notes that his best pitch is now a splitter that rumors say he learned from Padres advisor Hideo Nomo. While his ceiling isn’t high, teams are always in need of players with Bednar’s rough profile; simply put, there are a lot of outs to get in a big league season, and relievers like Bednar need to get some of them.

Omar Cruz, another piece of the trade, is a 22-year-old lefty who spent 2019 in A ball. His strikeout numbers surpass his raw stuff; when Eric saw him late in 2020, he was sitting around 90-91. He’s theoretically a future starter, but really only commands two pitches; the fastball, which has good movement to offset his velocity shortcomings, and a plus changeup. Eric sees him as an Honorable Mention on the Pirates’ forthcoming list.

Drake Fellows — all kinds of players in this trade, like I said — was a sixth-round draft pick out of Vanderbilt in 2019. He has three plus pitches, but he also hit a remarkable 17 batters in his final year at Vandy, emblematic of his spotty command. Eric likes him as a developmental project because of his stuff, but his control simply isn’t there yet.

Joey Lucchesi has been progressively squeezed out of San Diego’s plans. Two years ago, he was an effective innings-eater on a team with a thin rotation. Since then, the team has acquired Mike Clevinger, Snell, Darvish, and Musgrove. Chris Paddack has solidified a spot in the rotation. Mackenzie Gore will likely be in the majors sooner rather than later. In other words, Lucchesi went from useful to surplus.

Surplus to the Padres, at least. Plenty of teams across baseball could use a fifth starter who looks like a roughly average player over his career, particularly given that he still has four years of suppressed salary in his future. Sure, his fastball hardly crests 90 miles an hour. Sure, his sinker/changeup pitch mix is out of favor these days. Still, take a quick look at who teams are using at the back of their rotations, and you can see Lucchesi’s appeal. Competence is valuable.

Given that the Pirates aren’t trying to win baseball games this year, they didn’t have much use for that competence. Instead, a third team got involved: Lucchesi is now a Met, and New York sent Endy Rodriguez to Pittsburgh in exchange. For a team looking to cobble together enough starters while they wait for Noah Syndergaard to return, Lucchesi is exactly what the doctor ordered. For the Pirates, a prospect who might be good long enough in the future that their rebuild could be finished is a more valuable prize.

Rodriguez is the second-best prospect the Pirates are receiving. He’s a switch-hitting catcher with good feel to hit, a rare combination. Despite that rare skillset, scouts are most excited about his defense. He’s solid across the board at catcher — receiving, moving laterally, and throwing — but he’s athletic enough that the Mets have given time at every position other than shortstop.

His profile likely needs a little more power at some point, but Eric sees a lot of upside there — he compares him (at similar developmental stages) to Rafael Marchan and Gabriel Moreno, both of whom are fringe top 100 prospects today even without great power. As an added bonus, Rodriguez’s Trackman data shows great bat-to-ball skills; despite his lack of top-end power, his 90 mph average exit velocity was excellent for a teenager. If he grows into a little more oomph, that skill will play up.

It feels vaguely lazy to call a trade a win-win — or in this case, a win-win-win. Someone usually hoodwinks someone at least a little bit, or pays up to fill a pressing need on their roster. In this case, however, no one gave up anything they couldn’t part with, and all three teams advanced their plans for 2021.

The Padres want to win the NL West, and adding Musgrove to an already formidable rotation maximizes their chances of doing so. The Pirates are doing no such thing; their 2021 plan involves a lot of losing at the major league level and a lot of hoping prospects pan out, and this deal got them roughly fair value for Musgrove (in this author’s opinion) in the form of interesting but far-off prospects. The Mets turned an interesting but uncertain chip into cost-controlled rotation help, something they need at the moment. From the lens of accomplishing each team’s 2021 goals, this trade has it all.





Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.

75 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
tomerafan
5 years ago

Hudson Head makes me think of the old TV sitcom “Herman’s Head,” which had an AWESOME cast. (Including Hank Azaria, for a baseball tie-in.)

Glad the Mets picked up Lucchesi, a low cost #4/5 with minor league options remaining. But man, do I wish they had the package to pick up Musgrove. I’m happy for him that he’s going home, but a rotation of DeGrom / Carrasco / Musgrove / Stroman would be unbelievable.

But I think that Lucchesi’s remaining two MiLB options were a big part of this deal for the Mets. Now they can shuttle Lucchesi and Peterson as needed, including if they wind up in the enviable situation of having everyone healthy when Thor returns. Being able to call up one of these two guys, as compared to the AAAA arms they’ve trotted out as replacement starters, is huge for depth.

viceroyMember since 2020
5 years ago

Great write up! Not seeing Musgrove’s name in the whiffs/swing table however

MustBunique
5 years ago

The rain forest?!?! That sounds wet. I’m Drake Fellows.

NATS FanMember since 2018
5 years ago

good analysis. I hope these guys payoff for the Pirates cause they have a lot of losses ahead of them for a while.

Trotter76Member since 2018
5 years ago
Reply to  NATS Fan

You know who I feel bad for? Ke’Bryan Hayes. Imagine being one of the top rookies in baseball and you come up just in time for a tear down… from an already bad team! We’ll see if he can keep his focus and effort honed while losing 70% of the time.

willl
5 years ago
Reply to  Trotter76

Don’t lose too much sleep. They’ll trade him too in a year or two.

And probably when his value is at its lowest

bglick4
5 years ago

Nice trade by the Padres. I guess this the best the Pirates were likely to get. Also, Drake Fellows should totally be pitching for the Long Island Ducks in a few years. This trade makes that more likely. I, for one, want to see Drake Fellows and Kevin Quackenbush in the same rotation. Maybe pull Brandon Duckworth out of retirement too.

ScoreboardMember since 2016
5 years ago

I haven’t even finished this article, but I jumped to the comments to just say that I truly appreciate your writing style Ben and you are one of the central reasons I continue to come to FanGraphs.

FrancoeursteinMember since 2025
5 years ago
Reply to  Scoreboard

Agreed!

BelavonMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  Scoreboard

Amen! That intro is gold. Read and shared it multiple times.

techzero
5 years ago
Reply to  Scoreboard

And we miss him back at VEB.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago

At first when I heard about this, I thought “this cannot be the Padres’ best use of resources” but then I looked at who they were shipping out and changed my mind. Hudson Head is a good prospect who has a chance to be very good, but when you’re talking about sending him out for a #3 starter you don’t say “we can’t give up this raw toolsy guy who hasn’t played above rookie ball for a #3 starter, because he’d be your #4 starter.” No, you just do it. I kind of feel the same way about Lucchesi–you don’t say “we can’t give up this catcher who hasn’t played above rookie ball for a #4 starter, he’d be our #5 starter.” I like Rodriguez a lot, but when this is all you’re giving up, you should just do it.

dvmin98
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Best part is Musgrove may likely be our #5 next season if/when Clev comes back. Nasty

FrancoeursteinMember since 2025
5 years ago
Reply to  dvmin98

Most guys don’t return from TJ within 12 months anymore, and his operation was during the postseason I believe.

NYYfaninLAAlandMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Francoeurstein

I’m sure he meant 2022

dvmin98
5 years ago
Reply to  Francoeurstein

Was talking about ’22

Uncle SpikeMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  dvmin98

Ok, unpopular opinion time but, barring injuries, I think it’s just as likely he’s the #7 starter going into next year. Personally, I would take Paddack and Gore’s upside over him. I still like the trade as you can never have too much pitching and I’m sure they’ll find ways to get everyone innings but to me he’s not the sure fire #4 starter in this team.

Cave Dameron
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

“Hudson Head is a good prospect who has a chance to be very good, but when you’re talking about sending him out for a #3 starter you don’t say “we can’t give up this raw toolsy guy who hasn’t played above rookie ball for a #3 starter”

Ironically this statement can be applied to the Tatis Jr. – James Shields trade. Shields was a mid-rotation starter and was traded for a toolsy Tatis who hadn’t played above rookie ball.

HoplarskoMember since 2017
5 years ago
Reply to  Cave Dameron

Tatis hadn’t even played Rookie ball.

Twitchy
5 years ago
Reply to  Cave Dameron

James Shields wasn’t really a mid rotation guy when he was traded though. He had 0.8 war in 200 innings in the previous season and the season he was traded was on pace for 1.5 WAR.

bglick4
5 years ago
Reply to  Cave Dameron

True, (well I guess. Shields wasn’t really a mid rotation guy at the time). But, this standard could also be applied to a thousand other trades where the prospect didn’t pan out. It a good moved based on the available data. That will remain true even if Head turns into Pedro.

Dmjn53
5 years ago
Reply to  bglick4

Pedro who?

mattMember since 2023
5 years ago
Reply to  Cave Dameron

Shields was not a mid rotation starter at time of the trade

Shalesh
5 years ago

Padres do it again! Get a 3-win starter under control for 2 years for less than what the Mets gave for 1.5 years of Marcus Stroman in 2019. Hunter Head is an FV45 and Endy Rodriguez an FV40, and Bednar and Cruz seem like FV35+. I know prospect valuation is in flux now with essentially a lost 2020, but Head doesn’t seem to be in Simeon Woods-Richardson’s league and Rodriguez doesn’t seem as good as the high-floor Anthony Kay.

Seems strange that no other teams wanted to beat this package. The Diamondbacks, for example. gave a lot more for 2 years of Starling Marte a year ago.

SyndergaardengnomesMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Shalesh

Marcus Stroman has had A LOT more ML success than Joe Musgrove has. Hardly an apples to apples comparison.

Also, you pay a premium at the trade deadline, that’s life…

Shalesh
5 years ago

Fair enough, Stroman and Marte were more 3.5-4 win-players whereas Musgrove is more of a 3-win player. I still think this is light. And people thought the Mets got a great deal on Stroman at the time, whereas I thought the Blue Jays got a pretty good get in SWR.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  Shalesh

I think this may be a situation where Fangraphs likes Musgrove quite a bit more than the industry consensus,for better or worse.

Groundout
5 years ago
Reply to  Shalesh

Agree that it seems like the cost should have been higher. A version of this trade would make sense for any team that would benefit from being aggressive but seems to have limited cash … and that’s a lot of teams right now. Maybe the Yankees or Nats could have done this instead of Kluber/Lester? The Twins, as their cheap Odorizzi replacement? The good half of the AL West? The Cardinals?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Groundout

The Nationals are basically out of prospects. The Yankees, though, have a ton of prospects that are a long way away from the majors and are going to need Rule 5 protection. I think the Angels should have been in on him too.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago

I’m not so sure how I feel about the Pirates’ return. Unlike all the other trades this winter where people have been screaming about “how could this deal happen?!” and I didn’t agree, this one I think was light. The two top prospects are definitely Head and Rodriguez, who have not played above rookie ball and have a lot of development left to go. Probable #3 starters who will cost less than $15M across two years should probably return more than an FV45 and FV40+. Maybe the league isn’t that high on him but his stuff is good, so there’s not a lot of reason to think he can’t do it except he’s been a bit injury-prone.

The other thing about those two prospects being young and far away…so are Omar Cruz and Fellows. They are very clearly settling into a long, long rebuild, now that Oneil Cruz’s career is in legal limbo. Meanwhile, the rest of their top prospects have not played above A+, and a lot of them haven’t even gotten above A- (Priester, Malone, Peguero, Thomas). And that’s just the top prospects. At some point in the not so distant future, this team is going to have a Rule 5 crunch. This puts a lot of pressure on Swaggerty, Oliva, Oneil Cruz, Castro, and Bolton to claim a roster spot by some point in 2021 or 2022. Probably not an issue for Oneil Cruz, Oliva, and Bolton, all of whom could debut in 2021, but might be an issue for Swaggerty and Castro.

dozingoffdadMember since 2021
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Is Oneil Cruz still dealing with legal trouble? I thought local authorities had decided to treat it as an accident and that it was possible Cruz wasn’t drinking. I’m suspicious of how they came to that conclusion, but at this point Cruz’s real problem seems to be that he’s struck out a ton in the DR of late.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  dozingoffdad

I haven’t been able to find any information about it since he was arrested–whether they dropped the charges or not. Obviously, if he’s out of legal limbo they’re hoping he is ready at some point in 2021, and if not definitely by 2022.

Matan KronfeldMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I wrote a seperate comment on this topic, saying that hudson head is probably valued way too low as a 45 fv, being that he got a 3m bonus and is essentially a first rounder, which is worth 15-20m. Changes the valuation signifiacntly.

Max Power
5 years ago
Reply to  Matan Kronfeld

Mid-1st round picks, which is where 3m falls, are usually 45 FVs.

Edit: Oh saw the other post, nvm

Dominikk85Member since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Matan Kronfeld

Usually the top 10-12 or so draft picks are 50s and mid first till Late first are 45s and early second 40+.

Obviously performance can change that quickly and since head did well in rookie ball it probably would be appropriate to bump him up half a grade

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago

Pirates could be interesting (although not good), now that I think of it. Rotation could have Brault, Keller, Brubaker, Crowe, and Bolton. Lineup would have Hayes, Moran, Reynolds, Oliva, Stallings, and maybe Oneil Cruz, maybe someone like Cole Tucker. It won’t be a good team overall, but you could reasonably imagine some building blocks in that group.

D-WizMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Yeah, for as much (totally fair) criticism the Pirates front office has endured in recent years, they have managed to accrue quite a few interesting players and if you squint I think you can just barely make out the bones a of a contending team in a few years. Obviously it’s impossible to know how all of these guys will fare, but hopefully at least a handful pan out!

motleycrue84Member since 2024
5 years ago

It was revealing that the Pirates preferred Endy Rodriguez to Lucchesi.

You can’t just say “the Pirates are rebuilding and Lucchesi doesn’t fit their timeline” as he’s still pre-arb, cheap, and they could have either immediately flipped him for a different prospect or used him as a starter to reestablish value and then traded him.

Either the Pirates are high on Rodriguez or think Lucchesi is a multiple inning reliever, not a starter.

D-WizMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  motleycrue84

True, but Lucchesi also helps them get wins *in 2021*, which is probably the opposite of what they want… So flipping him for a prospect immediately makes a lot of sense when put into the context of their rebuilding timeline, and Rodriguez seems about right value-wise to get for Lucchesi.

motleycrue84Member since 2024
5 years ago
Reply to  D-Wiz

Is this @ 45 FV?

My point being:
Is Rodriguez one of the top 10-15 C prospects in the league?

If so, a 45-grade top C prospect and Hudson Head + add-ons is a healthy return for Musgrove. Just as Lucchesi and Hudson Head + add-ons would have been a healthy return for Musgrove.

It all depends on your assessment of Rodriguez (and to a lesser degree, Lucchesi)

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  motleycrue84

I think Lucchesi is basically a 2-win starter–so a #4, maybe a borderline #4/#5. So either Eric is too low on Rodriguez (possible, Rodriguez has some big upside as a potential plus defensive catcher who can hit) or the Pirates just don’t buy him in that category.

But I think the Mets did well.

jrothMember since 2026
5 years ago
Reply to  motleycrue84

Pirates are *desperately* short on catching while having a boatload of pitching at suitable ages for respectability (if not contention) in ’23. Rodriguez seems like a guy with a floor as a second division starter, which is a lot more valuable/scarce IMO than a #4 SP, especially once you factor in timelines.

mattMember since 2023
5 years ago
Reply to  jroth

Rodriguez’s floor is a non mlb guy. He’s far from a sure thing big leaguer

carterMember since 2020
5 years ago

All these moves makes me think that Lamets injury is more serious than was let on.

JoserMember since 2021
5 years ago
Reply to  carter

Maybe. Or maybe they just looked up I-5 and saw the benefits of having huge depth in pitching. Because whether it’s Lamet or somebody else, pitchers get hurt. They always get hurt. But if you have reserves to draw on, the team itself doesn’t get hurt as much as the individual pitchers do. And as the Dodgers have demonstrated, having excess pitching has other benefits in terms of workload even if the IL rules have changed to make the phantom injury AAA shuttle dance a little harder to execute. There may be less-quantifiable psychological benefits too, whether it’s nobody thinking they have to be The Guy who has to be perfect to carry the team or just having more grips and pitching styles hanging around to learn from.

carterMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Joser

That could be it also. Lamet concerns me. I wonder if someone like Paddack who basically has 2 pitches gets turned into closer/setup

TerryMc
5 years ago
Reply to  Joser

I recall Dave Cameron when questioned what he learned that he didn’t know before after he had been with the Padres for a couple of months was that 100% of pitchers are injured in some way 100% of the time and it is just a question of how much they can put up with to make their next start (or some reasonable facsimile to that).

carterMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  TerryMc

That makes sense. Turns out now they are leaning towards a 6 man rotation, which is a bit surprising, but Darvish did say he preferred it too, so who knows. I’d have to imagine Snell would be pissed after finally getting out from under Tampa control, to then jump into a 6 man, ha.

synco
5 years ago
Reply to  carter

I don’t know much about Lamet’s injury, but this trade seems to me like the Padres are (smartly) being, well, smart about the guys they have/acquired. Darvish is not going to give you a full, healthy, effective season. Snell is pretty likely in the same boat. If I could bet on a single pitcher in all of baseball to regress this year (regardless of injury) it would be Lamet. Paddack has HR issues. Taken together, it’s likely that a few of these guys will be good this year and a few will not. The note about intentionally seeking out volume in the article seems apt – you want as many of these dudes around as possible to see which are going to shake out.

Matan KronfeldMember since 2020
5 years ago

I think a huge problem in FG prospect coverage is evident from this trade. Hudson Head was a third rounder given a 3m bonus, which means that the padres valued him as a mid first rounder. mid first rounders are valued at nearly 20m once you add back the signing bonus. Yet eric only gives out 50 fv grades to around 8 prospects which means he values a mid-first rounder as a 45 fv, which is only worth 6m. So getting back to hudson head, he “should” be valued at around 15-20m (he performed well in limited action) but eric had already slapped a 45 fv on him, which is only 6m. This obviously changes the valuation of the trade significantly and is to me a big whole in FG prospect coverage.

NYYfaninLAAlandMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Matan Kronfeld

But rank ordering based on bonus may also be an issue.

Prep prospects will often command more $ to talk out of a college commit, but they’re also farther away and perhaps higher risk than a comparably priced college guy. Eric does seem to factor distance from majors / risk into his valuation equation. Simply ranking guys based on draft bonus also presupposes teams don’t make evaluation mistakes or players don’t sometimes stall or bust.

Matan KronfeldMember since 2020
5 years ago

Even If I grant you all of that, Eric still only gives out 7 or 8 50 FV or higher grades to draft prospects, which is inconsistent with the value found by craig edwards when valuing draft picks. So obviously it’s not just a hudson head thing. Also, after teams doing years of work on draft models, I doubt that high school guys are getting much more bonus then they should other wise a team would just overslot a bunch of college guys and come out ahead. That kind of strat may have worked years ago, but the market has become more efficent.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Matan Kronfeld

I think the 45 from Eric was an upgrade because he performed well in limited action. Remember, a lot of these evaluations come not from him but from sources, too, so he’s triangulating.

Matan KronfeldMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Right, the issue for me is the prior FV for draft prospects, in this case Hudson Head. Obviously, grading prospects is subjective, but if the valuation you are giving to draft prospects of a certain tier (in this case mid to late first rounders) is inconsistnet with the objective experimental values found for prospects of those tiers,maybe the priors should be adjusted generally to fit the objective data.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Matan Kronfeld

Could also the 6 mil for a 45 be low?

Matan KronfeldMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Dominikk85

That value of 6m for a 45 FV hitter is taken from Craig Edwards’s research. I do think that more draft prospects should be 50 fv to make up for the difference

JoserMember since 2021
5 years ago

I do appreciate that Joey Lunchbox is going to the Big Apple, but we need another trade someday so that Hudson Head can ply his trade somewhere near the mouth of the Hudson.

dl80Member since 2026
5 years ago

To the Giants, Dbacks, and Rockies: “You are in this division, but we do not grant you the title of Contender.”

nray13
5 years ago

Good god we are gonna be disgusting

fjtorres
5 years ago
Reply to  nray13

Disgusting bad or disgusting good? Pirates, Pads, or Mets? 😉

David Klein
5 years ago

Was hoping the Mets would have gotten Musgrove all offseason but it wasn’t to be at least they got a very good number two starter in Carrasco— and a top four of the rotation of deGrom/Syndergaard/Carrasco/Stroman if or when Thor returns is pretty great. Lucchesi is excellent depth and could be a solid back end guy with four years of control and has minor league options. Remember David Peterson threw 49 innings last year and topped out 120 innings in the minors so Lucchesi will be needed even if or when Syndergaard returns. It will be good to see Lucchesi makes starts instead of holding your nose and seeing Gsellman and Corey Oswalt types making starts.

scrap1ron
5 years ago

Apparently the Padres aren’t too confident that Lamet can handle a full workload and stay healthy so they’re loading up on pitching. Good move.

SenorGato
5 years ago

Necessary trade for San Diego IMO. Darvish, Lamet, and Paddack all have TJs under their belt and are trying to make the leap from 60 to (hopefully) 162. Clevinger’s at two TJs. They need the balance and putting it all on Snell and prospects would have been foolhardy, even if both Snell and Gore have ferocious potential

Props to the Mets for picking up Luchessi

Rudy L
5 years ago

Spendthrift actually means “one who spends money in an extravagant, irresponsible way” (OED). I was surprised to learn this, too.

Willians Astu-stu-studilloMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Rudy L

You must have perused the dictionary if you know that.

Mean Mr. Mustard
5 years ago

…which is they cited OED (Oxford English Dictionary).

MatthewMember since 2019
5 years ago

My only complaint about this article is that it involved Joey Lucchesi but the word “Churve” was not mentioned once. Otherwise, 10/10, would read again.

sogoodlooking
5 years ago

The problem (well, after this morning’s news, a problem) for the Mets is that Lucchesi isn’t who they really needed. After the Lindor-Carrasco deal acc to fg they’ve upped their chances of making the postseason from about 45% to 75%, which sounds reasonable, but they haven’t done enough to improve their chances of going deep into the postseason once they get there. Neither Carrasco nor Stroman is likely to be strong well into October, and Syndergaard is a roll of the dice.

What they really needed, and still need, is someone like Bauer, who’s likely to still be healthy and pitching well after 200 innings and the LCS rolls around. Instead, all they’ve done is improved their chance with Lucchesi of getting a healthy Steven Matz, version 2018 or 2019.

That’s not who they needed.

tomerafan
5 years ago
Reply to  sogoodlooking

I’m pretty sure that getting Lucchesi isn’t the end of their offseason. They flipped a rookie ball prospect for a #4/5 that can eat innings at close to league minimum and has two MiLB options remaining. That’s a super important pick up for a team hoping to contend.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  sogoodlooking

I’m sorry, this is insane. Having someone who can let Carrasco or Stroman take a breather now and again will help those two get to the playoffs. And they have deGrom heading up the rotation. The only teams that need Bauer less are the Dodgers, Nationals, and Padres.

A centerfielder is a different story.

David Klein
5 years ago
Reply to  sogoodlooking

Why wouldn’t they be strong into October? Oh and compare and contrast Carrasco and Bauer numbers from 2014-2020

tomerafan
5 years ago
Reply to  David Klein

Glad I’m not the only one that doesn’t get all the Bauer-love. He’s a good pitcher who had a great 2020 after seemingly deciding to cheekily lean into the Sticky Stuff, which may not be a tool that continues to exist in its current form. Beyond that, he’s a solid #2/3 pitcher who would be a #4 starter on the Mets if Syndergaard returns to his 2018-2019 4-win form, and otherwise a #3 on the Mets behind deGrom and Cookie.

And that’s before even getting to his personality and wondering how he’ll get along with the NY media, and whether he can be a team player or not. Shoot, Mets fans were getting sick of Thor’s tweets… I can’t even imagine what they’d do with Bauer after a bad start or two. Mercurial athletes who aren’t as good as they believe themselves to be almost never, ever do well in New York, especially when there are huge fan expectations placed on them.

If Bauer gets 5/$150M, more power to him, but I hope the Mets stay far, far away.

fjtorres
5 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

High variance wild card.
Cleveland and Cinci could/needed to risk it.
Mets and Pads, no.
Angels do, though.
Maybe Texas.

carterMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

I get that a lot of people aren’t in on Bauer, or a fan. I do agree that NY media might be a bit of a negative for him..but I am also not certain on that. I’d be more concerned about how bad central bats were last year than him losing w.e it was that he had last year. He has had some brilliant stretches before too, and the most recent results are always going to be more important than the results from 2014.