Pondering a Possible Pete Alonso Trade

Wendell Cruz-USA TODAY Sports

The idea of the Mets trading Pete Alonso would have seemed positively preposterous six months ago. Coming off a 101-win season, the Mets committed to a half-billion dollars in new contracts over the winter, entering the season with the most expensive team in history. But rather than battle the Braves for NL East supremacy, they’ve instead been fighting to stay ahead of the Nationals for fourth place, a mêlée they’re currently losing. The Mets have already traded off some of their veterans, including both Justin Verlander and Max Scherzer, so the idea of parting with Alonso doesn’t seem quite as farfetched as it once did.

There have been some sports radio rumblings about Alonso-related clubhouse issues, but I tend to not take those things too seriously. And even if I did, it’s not a surprising development in the context of a wreck of a season; unless you’re the late 1970s Yankees, winning tends to make people get along better. What I do take seriously are the reports from Ken Rosenthal at The Athletic. No deal was close, but the Mets reportedly talked to at least the Brewers and Cubs around the trade deadline, getting to the point where the players to be sent to New York were discussed.

The facts on the ground, divorced from any specific rumors, also make such a trade plausible this winter. Players a year from free agency are frequently discussed in trades, and while there’s no reason to think the Mets are going to tear the team down to a small, long-term core, a 75-win season — and that’s only if the Mets play decent baseball in September — makes some kind of short-term retool quite possible. In that case, trading the unsigned Alonso for players who can contribute past 2024 is an idea with considerable merit.

When contemplating a trade, the first question is: What kind of player is Alonso likely to be in 2024? The first baseman is having a weird season, with a Mendoza-line BABIP (.205), but he’s still hitting for power. I’m not actually worried about the BABIP — a number that low is almost never a real long-term characteristic for a position player with even the teensiest amount of competence at the plate. After all, pitchers across the majors since 2018 combined for a .239 BABIP with the bases empty. What does cause me a bit of concern is that Alonso has been a lot more passive at the plate and his contact rate has still gone down, even with stingier pitch selection. But hey, there’s a projection system on my computer, so I might as well ask it:

ZiPS Projection – Pete Alonso
Year BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB OPS+ DR WAR
2024 .250 .342 .503 555 84 139 24 1 38 113 64 128 4 133 -1 3.7
2025 .246 .338 .486 541 79 133 23 1 35 106 63 124 4 127 -1 3.2
2026 .242 .335 .471 524 75 127 22 1 32 99 61 120 3 123 -1 2.7
2027 .241 .332 .459 503 70 121 21 1 29 90 58 116 3 119 -2 2.4
2028 .235 .327 .438 473 63 111 19 1 25 79 54 111 2 112 -2 1.7
2029 .229 .321 .412 437 54 100 18 1 20 68 49 105 2 104 -2 1.1
2030 .224 .316 .401 392 47 88 16 1 17 59 44 95 2 99 -2 0.7

If Alonso were a free agent this offseason, ZiPS would suggest a six-year, $130 million offer. While that pales in comparison to some of the biggest contracts of last winter, those were mainly given to shortstops and to last year’s AL MVP, Aaron Judge. It’s a bit less than what either Matt Olson or Freddie Freeman received, but both had better projections when they signed than Alonso does now. Alonso isn’t a free agent, of course, and ZiPS would knock another $8 million-$10 million off that deal because of the season of arbitration remaining. I honestly don’t expect Alonso to seriously entertain a six-year, $120 million offer. This question isn’t just theoretical; per MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand, the Mets have at least discussed a contract extension with Alonso recently:

“The Mets made an offer that, while it certainly wasn’t insulting, wasn’t one good enough to convince Alonso to forego free agency,” said a source with knowledge of the talks. “But the offseason is a long one. There’s no urgency to get something done right now.”

If you assume that Alonso’s next team will get $11 million plus some hard-to-quantify amount of value from having the first shot at extending Alonso or netting a possible qualifying offer compensation pick, that would put the return for Alonso somewhere in the range of a 50 FV prospect. Just to provide some context of what a 50 FV means, the current 50s on the Cubs and Brewers, two teams that have reportedly talked with the Mets, are James Triantos, Sal Frelick, Kevin Alcántara, Ben Brown, and Jordan Wicks. That’s not to say that all or any of these players would be offered in an Alonso trade, only that this is the level of prospect the Mets could expect under these assumptions.

But those assumptions might not be 100% correct. Alonso’s WAR projection isn’t an overwhelming one, but right now it’s also the third-best in ZiPS for the 2024 season among first basemen. The top two are the aforementioned Freeman and Olson, and they’re both in the category of unobtainium for teams wanting to upgrade at first base:

ZiPS Projections – 2024 First Basemen by WAR

If your team absolutely needs a first baseman, you probably can’t get one better than Alonso this winter. While that’s certainly not enough to spark a serious discussion for prospects like Jackson Chourio at the negotiating table — if Chourio had actually been offered, Alonso would currently be wearing a cap with the best logo in baseball history on it — it’s likely enough to net another lower-level prospect or two if the Mets find just the right buyer.

Trading Pete Alonso previously seemed unthinkable, but coming off an infinite tire fire of a year, the one thing the Mets actually can’t afford is a verboten idea. Sure, this could all be a moot point in a month if the Mets and Alonso agree to a mutually beneficial contract extension, but failing that, the team should take the idea of trading their first baseman very seriously this offseason.





Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.

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mikejuntMember
1 year ago

I fundamentally agree with this but I expect the comments to be kind of deranged to judge by the response every time a NY-based writer has floated this idea on Twitter. Man, people think Pete Alonso is a lot better than he actually is.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  mikejunt

It’s hard to give up top prospects for a year of any player. Unless the player is Mookie Betts- or Francisco Lindor-caliber, which Alonso certainly is not.

But he is still the player with the 21st-best wRC+ among qualified hitters this year. The only player with a higher one who is a free agent this winter is Cody Bellinger (although I expect some team will talk themselves into signing Jorge Soler instead of trading for Alonso). So I do think they can expect an FV50 prospect, approximately.

mikejuntMember
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I wanted to edit it but FG has been annoying about editing lately, but truly Alonso reminds me a lot of Ryan Howard – he has exactly one skill, and it’s hitting for power – and I would not expect him to age gracefully.

SyndergaardengnomesMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  mikejunt

Ryan Howard was significantly worse defensively, and on the basepaths compared to Alonso at the same ages. Howard was a DH in the wrong league, and it ate into a decent amount of his overall value.

Despite baseball-reference saying there’s only a 5 lb. difference between the two, I’d judge Howard’s listed weight of 250 to be about as accurate as Trump’s 215 lbs.

I’m not saying Alonso will age gracefully, necessarily, but he’s starting at a higher athletic baseline compared to Howard, that’s for certain.

A Salty ScientistMember since 2024
1 year ago

And Howard was still a very good hitter from ages 29-31. I would at least expect Alonso to remain a lineup anchor during those same prime years.

Jason BMember since 2017
1 year ago

He will be a lineup anchor (in the positive sense) before he inevitably becomes a lineup anchor (in the other sense)

fjtorres
1 year ago

The problem is he hits FA at 30.

mikejuntMember
1 year ago

Ryan Howard was also a much better hitter than Pete Alonso!

Carson Kahla
1 year ago
Reply to  mikejunt

Except he wasn’t. Howard had only 2 years with a higher wrc+ than Pete’s career line

68FCMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  mikejunt

Of Alonso’s top comps through age 27 on b-ref, only Delgado had a qualifying season after age 34. Almost all players with Alonso’s profile fall off a cliff in their early 30s.

SyndergaardengnomesMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  68FC

Are we ignoring Matt Olson at #2 and Shohei Ohtani at #3 because they don’t fit your narrative? Delgado at #6 who was still a great hitter at 37…

Also a couple guys in Mo Vaughn and Cecil Fielder who ate themselves out of the league, which I don’t think Alonso will do.

While Alonso very well might age poorly, cherry picking data, and ignoring the ones who don’t fit does not help the argument.

68FCMember since 2020
1 year ago

Have either Olson or Ohtani produced in their 30s? They are both 29, every single hitter on that list was producing at a high level at age 29. I think we can reasonably exclude Olson, Ohtani, and Josh Bell from the sample since we don’t know how they will age yet.

There are a handful of guys with the profile who have aged well (Delgado, David Ortiz, Willie McCovey, Lee May). But most don’t, even Frank Thomas saw a 43 point drop in his wRC+ in his 30s. The comps of Alonso’s comps (Ryan Howard, Justin Morneau, Nate Colbert, Carlos Pena, Prince Fielder, Adam Dunn) tend to follow a similar pattern. Many of those players saw their career cut short by injuries, but those seem to be a fairly common occurrence among these larger players. Playing baseball at 240+ lbs puts a lot of strain on the human body.

carterMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I was looking at wRC+ yesterday, and Ozuna and Jp Crawford are inside the top 20 and Alonso is not. Those were not names I expected to see there before the season began.

PhilMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  carter

And Isaac Paredes too (10th highest wRC+ of a qualified hitter) – putting up a nice 4 win season (below replacement with the Tigers, over 6fWAR in under 850PA with the Rays – Austin Meadows has, of course, been below replacement in his two seasons with the Rays).

So, in a couple of years, GMs, when the Rays want to trade Paredes away, find out who they want from your team – that is the player who is going to put up a 4 win season!

fjtorres
1 year ago
Reply to  Phil

Better yet, don’t trade with the Rays. 😁

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  carter

And I would guess that will be reversed next year, but I am definitely noticing that recency bias is not consistent across teams so it is hard to predict how teams will interpret it.

4onejrMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  mikejunt

I expect the comments to be kind of deranged to judge by the response every time a NY-based writer has floated this idea on Twitter.

Seems like that’s the penalty for being merely an all-star caliber player in a market like New York 😂 – Everyone thinks you’re Mike Trout

Mike NMN
1 year ago
Reply to  4onejr

The Yankees have one exceptional player, when healthy, and that’s Judge. They have one exceptional pitcher in Cole. Everything beyond that ranges from useful but not standout, to “maybe if everything breaks his way”, and OMG, that’s what you are putting out on the field? Excruciating to watch

PhilMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  4onejr

And yet I have seen comments from Mets fans who think Lindor is a massive disappointment, e.g. his bat (a 119wRC+ this season) isn’t very good.

Overrate the pretty good guys and blame the future HoFers for the teams struggles – though I imagine lots of fanbases have similar idiosyncrasies.

David KleinMember since 2024
1 year ago
Reply to  Phil

I listen to the Mike Francesa podcast for laughs and he said Alonso should ask for the contract Lindor got lmao.

richielampsMember since 2022
1 year ago
Reply to  Phil

I like WAR but the gap between the value Alonso provides and Lindor provides is misrepresented in this case (namely the untrustworthiness of defensive WAR and the extremely unlucky BABIP season Alonso has had, which WAR does not account for).

The most important part of baseball is hitting, and Pete Alonso has a top 10 xwOBA in the entire league. We also know most of Lindor’s value comes from his defense, which any smart person will tell you is very poorly quantified by current statistics.

I’m not saying Alonso is worth a Lindor contract, because he’s not; but people just looking at WAR and making these types of proclamations is dumb. Lindor is having a very good year. WAR overrates the value of his defense tremendously – he’s a great defender, but the idea that he’s having an MVP type season is laughable. Every other player in that discussion is a great hitter – Lindor isn’t. And his defense isn’t otherworldly enough to account for that discrepancy.

mookie28Member since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  richielamps

I posted something far less eloquent but trying to make the same point on the Lindor article the other day.

Dooduh
1 year ago
Reply to  richielamps

Lindor is not worth Lindor’s contract.

v2miccaMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  richielamps

I mean, we can definitely quibble over the degree to which WAR values defensive metrics. But, I don’t think there is anything fundamentally controversial in acknowledging that a player capably of fielding a far more demanding position at a high level will inherently be more valuable than a player who can only field a less demanding position at an average level.
Secondly, while fWAR is likely more predictive than many traditional counting stats, it is still fundamentally a results driven metric. So of course its not going to value a player with an impressive xwOBA if that doesn’t actually translate into on field production. Alonso’s low BABIP on the season may be a fluke, but it is an actual result and if you are measuring the Value a player provided you go by the actual results, not the expected ones.

Adam SMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  v2micca

Yeh, the problem isn’t WAR but baseball fans. We fundamentally don’t understand how much more valuable an adequate defensive SS (and Lindor is better than that) is than a good defensive 1B.

PhilMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  richielamps

WAR does weight offense more the defense (and funnily enough Lindor has more offensive runs than defensive runs this year – for his career, he’s been worth 125 offensive runs and 150 defensive runs – he is not Ozzie Smith, he is a genuinely good hitter).

Top offensive runs this year: Ohtani, S, 59.7 (Betts, Acuña, Freeman all above 55)

Top defensive runs this year: Bailey, P, 22.0 – but he’s a catcher and is getting a lot of credit for good framing – most the top defensive runs are catchers as they can influence every pitch.

So top defensive runs, non-catcher this year: Doyle, B, 15.8.

I don’t think Lindor is going to get any top 3 NL MVP votes – because WAR is saying while his defense is great – and better than the guys who are going to get lots of MVP votes – it still leaves him as comfortably less valuable than Betts, Acuña, Freeman.

v2miccaMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  Phil

Exactly. I was comparing Lindor and Alonso’s stat lines from this year and I have to say, considering that to this point Alonso has only be about a 10 percent better hitter than Lindor, and the differences in their values on the basepaths, and the difference in the value of their positions and the level at which both field their respective positions, the 2.5 fWAR gap completely tracks to me.

fjtorres
1 year ago
Reply to  4onejr

Don’t they bother to look at Judge? He’s right there!

SyndergaardengnomesMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  mikejunt

Or, more likely, for a team that’s been around for over 5 decades, there is value in the idea of finally having a homegrown offensive player spend his entire career with the Mets, especially since we had to watch David Wright fall apart.

This is entertainment after all. I’m a lifelong Mets fan who knows exactly what Alonso’s value is, and I get disgusted at the idea of trading him for a 50 FV prospect.

Roger McDowell Hot Foot
1 year ago

Really can’t second this enough. There are obvious and legitimate reasons beyond $/WAR that fans care about players and want to keep watching them play for their teams. Pete is a perfect case in point, and this is still the case whatever deranged nonsense is being said about him by angry WFAN callers or Twitter randos.

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
1 year ago

I am often questioned for thinking that baseball is about players and not just a string of statistics. There are players who have become part of the fabric of a franchise and Pete Alonso has established a strong bond with the Mets and their fans. He is, much like Jose Abreu was with the White Sox, an integral part of what the Mets are and should be locked up for life by Steve Cohen

fjtorres
1 year ago

What about Alvarez?
He looks likr a posible Mets lifer.

sogoodlooking
1 year ago
Reply to  fjtorres

Alvarez after a brilliant start couldn’t hit ice in the Arctic. Since May 30 his line is .184/.266/.368 and his defense has holes all over the place. (.135/.244/.202. since July 20, fwiw.) He’s very far from a sure thing and the Mets are such a dim organization they couldn’t figure out to move Ronny Mauricio to a position he might actually play, or teach even one of Baty, Vientos, or Ronny to play a competent 3B (or anywhere else for that matter) despite having them for a combined 18 years. Alvy’s just on the wrong team for fixing, should he need fixing.

darren
1 year ago

Yes, that’s true, but you have to make some hard choices about which players you do this with. Look at the Red Sox. They knew they couldn’t keep all of their homegrown stars so they made the difficult decision to trade away Mookie Betts and let Xander Bogaerts walk. Yes, it was hard on the fans, and sure the team is much worse off for it, but… wait, what was I getting at?

hebrewMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  mikejunt

hey so “people think alonso is better than he is” is not the reason Mets fans don’t want to see him traded

Dmjn53
1 year ago
Reply to  hebrew

I mean that’s at least part of the reason, even if it’s not the main one.

The reality is the casual fan isn’t reading fangraphs, and looks Alonso’s sexy RBI totals and value him as one of the best players in the game. Pete Alonso is obviously very good, but Met fans overvaluing him is definitely part of the problem here

Pepper Martin
1 year ago
Reply to  mikejunt

As a Yankee fan I would give up any young player other than Volpe or Dominguez for Alonso.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  Pepper Martin

Which is inconveniently the only two players who would actually get him.