Previewing the MVP Races

As we head into mid-August, there are roughly 50 games left for each team on the schedule, and we’re reaching the point of the season where we can begin to cull the list of potential candidates for the three major awards. So, today, let’s take a look at the legitimate MVP candidates in both leagues, and handicap how this might play out over the next six weeks.


American League MVP
Favorite: Mike Trout
Challenger: Josh Donaldson
Darkhorse: David Price

Trout is the best player in baseball, having another remarkable season that would likely go down as the best year of most any other player’s career. And a month ago, it seemed like he was going to run away with his second straight MVP award, with the Angels in a strong playoff position while the Yankees and Royals looked like potential division winners without a prime candidate for MVP. But since the All-Star break, Josh Donaldson has turned this thing into a race.

In 22 second-half games, Donaldson has hit .313/.420/.771, good for a 220 wRC+ and +2.0 WAR. Relative to that scorching pace, Trout’s 169 wRC+/+1.1 WAR performance — which would still project out to about an +8 WAR season over a full year — is downright slacking. And, not coincidentally, the Blue Jays have been on fire, winning 11 of 12 and giving themselves a strong chance to pass the Yankees and win the AL East.

So, now, Trout isn’t running away with this anymore, especially because the Blue Jays are now more likely to make the postseason than the Angels are. The voters have shown that they will still significantly downgrade a candidate for his team missing the playoffs, so while the Angels should be able to hang on to a Wild Card spot if they don’t win the AL West, this fight may come down to which team plays better over the remaining 50 games.

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But there is a wrinkle here for Donaldson; if the Blue Jays surge continues, he may end up losing some of his base to David Price, especially if the Blue Jays just sneak into the playoffs by a game or two. At the time of the Price acquisition, the Jays were 52-51; they’re 10-1 since they added Price, and that kind of line of demarcation makes for a very easy narrative. While most voters are still going to prefer the position player to the pitcher when given a choice, I could see Price siphoning off some of Donaldson’s support based on the idea that the team didn’t really kick it into high gear until Price joined the roster.

And if the Angels miss the playoffs entirely, Price might actually have a shot at winning this thing, especially if Donaldson cools off down the stretch, or Price throws some particularly dominating outings that stick in voter’s memories. Remember, CC Sabathia finished 6th in the NL MVP voting in 2008 despite spending the first half of the year pitching in the American League; his 17 starts for the Brewers were so good that a large number of voters were willing to overlook the fact that he only threw 130 innings in the NL that year.

Price’s first two starts in Toronto have been spectacular, and if he finishes with 10 more high-level outings for the Blue Jays, there may very well be a swell of support to give the award to Price for changing the direction of Toronto’s season. If the Angels miss the playoffs, and voters are essentially left picking between a pair of Blue Jays, enough might take Price to make it interesting.

Realistically, though, it’s probably going to be Trout or Donaldson. Nelson Cruz has big offensive numbers but plays on a losing team, so he’s out. Mark Teixeira and Alex Rodriguez are both hitting well for the Yankees, but neither are hitting as well as Trout or Donaldson and they offer less defensive value than either, and let’s be honest, the BBWAA would probably just disband before giving Alex Rodriguez the MVP award. Manny Machado is a good mid-ballot option, but it’s hard to see too many people making a case for him in the top spot, given that he’s basically having a slightly worse year than Donaldson on a worse team.

So it’s the Angels CF vs the Blue Jays 3B, with the Blue Jays new rent-an-ace hanging around as the possible spoiler. Trout still looks like the favorite, since he doesn’t have a teammate threatening to take some of his support, but if Donaldson keeps hitting and the Blue Jays keep winning, this could end up being a very close contest.


National League League MVP
Favorite: Bryce Harper
Challenger: Buster Posey
Darkhorse: Anthony Rizzo

This race looks a little bit easier to nail down; if the Nationals make the playoffs, Harper will likely win the MVP, assuming he has a reasonably productive finish to the season. Guys who hit .333/.460/.650 on playoff teams are tough to beat, and even if Harper’s wRC+ finishes in the 190 range instead of his current 202, he’s going to be the easiest pick for a lot of voters.

But if the Nationals swoon continues, Buster Posey is a not-terrible alternative. His +5.2 WAR makes it look like there’s a huge gap between Harper (who is at +6.9) and himself, but Posey deserves additional credit for his framing abilities, which aren’t captured in WAR yet. StatCorner gives Posey credit for 15 runs saved through framing, while Baseball Prospectus has him at 12 runs saved, so either way, you’re looking at adding over a win to his total if you give him full credit for the framing estimates. And at that point, Harper’s lead isn’t insurmountable.

But realistically, voters probably aren’t going to make that calculation. If the Nationals miss the playoffs, Posey is the best alternative to Harper for voters who require their candidate to come from a postseason qualifier, but barring a huge finish to the year, that’s probably his only realistic path forward. While he’s keeping up with Harper in batting average and RBIs, he’s not going to match Harper’s power numbers, and it’s unlikely that the BBWAA starts holding defense in high enough regard to pick Posey over Harper if both the Giants and Nationals make the playoffs. So it probably comes down to the team performance from the Nationals or Giants over the last two months of the season, with Harper likely to win as long as Washington doesn’t fall apart down the stretch.

Perhaps more interesting is what the dynamic might look like if the Nationals do collapse, and the Giants also fail to capture a postseason berth; in this scenario, you’d have the Dodgers, Cardinals, Pirates, Cubs, and Mets as the five playoff teams, and voters looking to pick one candidate out of a non-obvious field from that group. The Dodgers could put forth Zack Greinke, especially if he has an ERA that starts with a 1, but Greinke doesn’t have eye-popping strikeout totals, and it’s tough to vote for a pitcher as league MVP when his own rotation includes Clayton Kershaw. They could also push forward Adrian Gonzalez, but with so many other good players on the roster and a record that might be viewed as a disappointment, I don’t know how much support he’ll get, since he’d have to be a narrative candidate.

The Mets also don’t really have a traditional option, with Curtis Granderson leading their position players in WAR, and Lucas Duda not really hitting well enough as a first baseman to be a serious contender. The Cardinals are winning because a bunch of guys are having good years rather than any one player having a great year, so they don’t have anyone with MVP-type numbers, either traditional or sabermetric.

So that leaves the Cubs and Pirates, and most likely, Anthony Rizzo and Andrew McCutchen. Besides Harper, they’ve been the best hitters in the NL that are likely playoff bound — sorry, Paul Goldschmidt, but your teammates aren’t good enough for you to get real support from the voters — and both would make solid options in a year where Harper and Posey weren’t doing what they’re doing. Both have similar offensive lines, so McCutchen has an advantage as a center fielder, but his early-season knee problems have limited him more to production at the plate than his previous all-around contributions. Toss in the fact that Rizzo leads NL batters in WPA — not that voters will care about that specifically, but he’s gotten some big hits in important situations, which they’ll remember — and the bonus he’ll get for the Cubs success, and I’d bet Rizzo would slightly outpoll McCutchen at the moment.

But the scenario where both the Nationals and Giants miss the playoffs is pretty unlikely, and so, it’s probably going to come down to Harper and Posey. The gap isn’t as large as it looked like it would be after Harper’s amazing start to the year, but he’s still the clear favorite, with Posey’s case mostly resting on the Nationals potential inability to win the NL East. If they hold off the Mets, though, Harper’s very likely the pick.





Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.

138 Comments
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Pale Hose
11 years ago

Based on nothing I do think this is the kind of year that the BBWAA would give Harper MVP regardless of the Nationals making the playoffs.

durn
11 years ago
Reply to  Pale Hose

I agree, he could get elective back surgery today, sidelining him for the rest of the year, causing the Nationals to have a losing record the rest of the way and he’d still win the MVP. They are so ready for him to win MVP.

triple-A city
11 years ago
Reply to  durn

I think that while you’re right they’re ready to have Harper specifically as MVP, they’re much *much* more ready to have both Trout and Harper as MVPs, and crown the East-West Young Faces of Baseball for the next million years. I feel like either of them getting serious consideration helps they other out.
Not that either of them needs any help.
It’s nice when the best narrative actually matches the best players.

TKDC
11 years ago
Reply to  Pale Hose

I disagree. I think maybe if the Nats weren’t supposed to be good, but if they miss the playoffs that will be a huge disappointment.

Also, if you use BR WAR Grienke is a lot closer to Harper (7.2 v. 6.6; the 6.6 assumes that BR WAR lists pitching WAR separate from pitcher’s offensive WAR, which I’m not absolutely positive is true, but Grienke has added .4 WAR as a hitter this year).

I’m also not really sure the “bigger star on the same team” thing is real. Didn’t Jeff Kent win the award while on Barry Bonds’ team? Pedroia won while Ortiz was the bigger star.

If the Nats miss the playoffs people are going to be talking about the Dodgers as odds on favorites to at least make the World Series. If Grienke is good the rest of the way, I’d say he has a good shot.

Samuel
11 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

Kent had a 334/424/596 line over 159 games.
Bonds was at 306/440/688 over 143 games.
Kent had 107 more PA.
Bonds also already had 3 MVPs.
Also everybody hated Bonds.

James
11 years ago
Reply to  Samuel

Yep, that was more about every hating bonds.

TKDC
11 years ago
Reply to  Samuel

But they didn’t hate him enough to not vote him MVL the next 4 years. I guess “hate” gives you a 1-2 WAR penalty, but if you are 2001-04 Bonds you can overcome that?

Still, that’s not my point. My point is that I don’t think the whole “having Kershaw on the same staff” is going to hurt Grienke if his ERA is a run lower than Kershaws and of course having the winz is helpful, too. Lots of guys that you might call the second banana on their team have won the MVP award in the last 20 years.

pitnick
11 years ago
Reply to  Samuel

Maybe most importantly, Kent had more RBI.

Price?
11 years ago

Jays are 11-0 with Tulo in the starting lineup, which is an even easier narrative.

In the Summertime
11 years ago
Reply to  Price?

Especially since Tulo has played more than 2 games. The team record isn’t going to be contributed to a guy who plays every fifth game.

Bryce's Clutchness
11 years ago
Reply to  Price?

I think another easy narrative is Bryce’s work in high leverage situations this year: 88 wRC+

If you curl up into a ball in your team’s most important moments, should you be the MVP?

Jayson Stark
11 years ago

David Price for MVP based upon a half-season of performance? Sorry Dave, that’s just crazy.

psualum
11 years ago
Reply to  Jayson Stark

I like that your web link goes to a 2003 MVP race article. The internet is a great place

Pale Hose
11 years ago
Reply to  Jayson Stark

Theoretically there is nothing wrong with using Tigers stats too.

Hammer
11 years ago
Reply to  Jayson Stark

Well, I mean, his first half wasn’t so bad either..

Mark Prior
11 years ago
Reply to  Jayson Stark

This makes me depressed.

Zen Madman
11 years ago

“If they hold off the Mets, though, Harper’s very likely the pick.”

To pick a nit, the Nats now have to overtake the Mets to reach the playoffs. As a picker of nits, I am legally obligated to point this out.

Compton
11 years ago
Reply to  Zen Madman

I don’t mean to say this is specifically what he meant, but I’m thinking since the Nationals are still projected to win the division, them holding off the Mets would be accurate.

http://www.fangraphs.com/coolstandings.aspx#NLE

Florida ron
11 years ago
Reply to  Compton

Lol as though the projection system is the actual reality.

Compton
11 years ago
Reply to  Florida ron

ROFL but aren’t the projections the best representation of future reality that we have? We don’t assume that whichever team leads a division on a given date is necessarily the favorite. Thankfully, we have tools to help us analyze who the favorite is.

Famous Mortimer
11 years ago
Reply to  Florida ron

As this article is about reality – a reality where the Mets are leading, and the Nats would have to pass them to win the division – then quoting projections as if they’re more important than what is actually happening is sort of silly.

triple-A city
11 years ago
Reply to  Florida ron

There’s certainly no arguing with real-life current win-loss records, you can’t unplay games, but when we’re discussing hypothetical end of year scenarios with a third of the season left to go, it isn’t unreasonable to consider both record and projections together.

Compton
11 years ago
Reply to  Florida ron

@Famous Mort. Did you read the article? It wasn’t about if the season ended today, who would be MVP. It was about how the MVP races are likely shape up by the end of the season.

First paragraph: “So, today, let’s take a look at the legitimate MVP candidates in both leagues, and handicap how this might play out over the next six weeks.”

The operative word here is handicap. In order to handicap, we must consider what is likely/ unlikely to happen. To do this, we can either be completely subjective about it, or we can utilize the tools that we have in place.

“Silly” Ok…

Another Nit to Pick
11 years ago

The Nats playoff odds are at 60% and Giants are at 20%. That gives about a 1 in 3 chance that neither makes the playoffs. Not that unlikely.

Los
11 years ago

Those events are not independent.

Avattoir
11 years ago
Reply to  Los

Technically so, that’s true; but in Reality World, the Nats best, close to only, chance is to win the NLE, while the Giants easy sched starting the first week in September – lots dying AZ, dead Rocks, and fading Padres, and most of the rest being head-to-head against LAD, who the Giants have owned this season – means SF has at least as good a look at either of two routes to the post-season festivities.

But of course you and anyone else is free to write off the Giants. After all, look at what they did last season, with a team almost as weak as the dependency you’re raising.

triple-A city
11 years ago
Reply to  Avattoir

#OddYear

Sam
11 years ago

Two Dave Cameron articles in two days making heavy use of pitch framing?

Are you coming round Dave?

Compton
11 years ago
Reply to  Sam

Wasn’t DC the only voter to have Lucroy 2nd last year? I’ve always seen Dave as an advocate for the merits of pitch framing, not sure what your comment is based on.

Grant
11 years ago

You changed your tune very quickly, Dave. Just a week ago you told me that Mike Trout was the MVP and there were no other options.

Grant
11 years ago
Reply to  Grant

Just to note, the guy with the Goldy comment below is a different person.

Schide
11 years ago
Reply to  Grant

I’m guessing he still thinks that personally, but since the article is about who he thinks the voters might choose, there are definitely other considerations.

Grant
11 years ago
Reply to  Schide

I guess I just can’t understand his thought process when the two are in a virtual tie for WAR and Donaldson has as many ‘MVP intangibles’ as we have seen in recent history (if you put any stock into those).

highrent
11 years ago
Reply to  Grant

Its based on the logic that this is pretty much been seen as Trout’s level and its taken a tremendous surge since the All Star break to get to this point. Trout could hit wRC+ 169 for the rest of the year, its not impossible for him considering he sports a career wRC+. Its much riskier gamble to bet that Donaldson continues to improve on his torrid pace and continues to match Trout. Donaldson’s numbers are based heavily only a HR/FB which is almost double his career rate. Chances are that regresses a little and Donaldson falls behind Trout. So yeah its pretty likely its still Trout from a metrics standpoint.

Grant
11 years ago

The winning team thing is just crap. Goldy should hands down win NL MVP at this time, easily, not even a contest. Right now he is having the best season of all hitters in baseball.

Name PA HR R RBI SB AVG OBP
Bryce Harper 446 29 77 69 4 0.333 0.46
Mike Trout 466 33 78 69 10 0.304 0.397
Josh Donaldson 494 31 82 83 4 0.297 0.365
Manny Machado 483 24 71 57 15 0.301 0.366
Paul Goldschmidt 487 22 71 81 19 0.338 0.451

Goldy’s homers are down, but he still can go 30/30 on the year with league leading RBI’s.

durn
11 years ago
Reply to  Grant

No he’s not, Bryce Harper has a higher OPS, WRC+, WOBA, walk rate, more home runs.

The only advantage Goldschmidt has is .005 points of batting average and .3% less strikeouts.

chaz
11 years ago
Reply to  durn

15 extra stolen bases is worth something (not that I disagree with your assessment).

chuckb
11 years ago
Reply to  durn

I was going to say that it’s really not worth your time to argue with a guy who’s using batting average and RBI as the basis of his argument but then decided that that’s exactly what the Comments section of Fangraphs should be about.

Thank you for doing our job.

cornflake5000
11 years ago
Reply to  Grant

You know this is FanGraphs and not ESPN, right? Not really the best place to base your argument on RBI… (and what’s with using an apostrophe to pluralize RBI?)

Dusty Baker
11 years ago
Reply to  cornflake5000

The apostrophe is a possessive apostrophe. Those RBI’s BELONG to him.

Grammar these days!

Grammar teacher
11 years ago
Reply to  Dusty Baker

Runs Batted In’s?

cornflake5000
11 years ago
Reply to  Dusty Baker

Yeah Dusty, that’s not quite the way it works…

Torgen
11 years ago
Reply to  Dusty Baker

The apostrophe represents the contraction of the letters “un atted n”.

Jones
11 years ago
Reply to  Dusty Baker

The possessive apostrophe is applied to the possessor, not the thing that’s possessed.

For example:

“Goldschmidt has 81 RBIs.” not “Goldschmidt has 81 RBI’s.”

For possession, it’s:

“Goldschmidt’s RBIs lead the NL.”

Goldy Harper
11 years ago
Reply to  Grant

My OBP’s is 46

Brian
11 years ago

It’s a shame that they don’t just vote for the best player. Goldy should be right up there with Bryce.

Garold
11 years ago
Reply to  Brian

Except he’s not. His wRC+ is 172 and Harper is 202. That’s an insane amount to be leading the 2nd best hitter in the league by. Plus Goldy is a 1B so his defensive contributions are pretty negative.

If everyone was just voting for the best player, Harper would win this year in an unanimous vote.

Brian
11 years ago
Reply to  Garold

Should have clarified, wasn’t saying he should win it, just that he should be at worst a darkhorse.

durn
11 years ago
Reply to  Brian

Yeah, believe me I get it Brian. I am a Phillies fan and wish I could delude myself into thinking that Harper was being overrated this year but he’s really not. The fact that we’re 2/3 of the way through the season and he still is TWICE AS GOOD A HITTER as the average player is unreal.

durn
11 years ago
Reply to  durn

You could give a team 4 outs and have Carlos Gomez bat twice in a row and it still probably wouldn’t be as good as having Harper bat in a traditional setting.

Anon21
11 years ago
Reply to  durn

Very, very wrong. I’m not sure what wRC+ would be the equivalent of giving a team a fourth out, but it’s probably higher than any player has ever achieved in a full season.

triple-A city
11 years ago
Reply to  durn

Wow Anon what a rabbit hole you’ve uncovered. I tried to actually imagine what would go in to calculating that and there are just so many factors! Does it mean the batter is an automatic baserunner (in that he never, ever makes an out) so that his OBP is 1.000? Can we use that to establish a sort of baseline WRC+ for the “fourth out” concept, if we assume his OPB is normalized to some historical ratio of hits to walks, and just assume every hit is a single? Do we mix in XBH at all? Is this a possible hypothetical to follow? Does anyone have Jeff Sullivan’s cell number? I have a favor to ask of him

francis
11 years ago
Reply to  Brian

As much as I like Goldy, any player that makes Yunel Escobar a .300 hitter by hitting in front of him is pretty amazing.

Now Goldy over Rizzo is a different story …

And good job putting Posey where he is. Vastly underrated.

Brian
11 years ago
Reply to  Brian

Guys, I never said he deserved it over Bryce. He at least deserves darkhorse status. Second in the NL in WAR, wRC+, wOBA, OBP, 1st in AVG, and 15 more steals than Bryce. Not sure what’s so crazy about thinking he should finish 2nd.

Lorenzo Cain
11 years ago

No respect…

TR
11 years ago
Reply to  Lorenzo Cain

Lol

BurleighGrimes
11 years ago
Reply to  TR

What are you LOLing at, Cain is having an awesome year on the best team in the AL. He is surely gonna garner more votes than Manny Machado, who was namechecked in this article.

Cain is good but
11 years ago
Reply to  BurleighGrimes

He’s got like 9 homers, hitting just a tick above .300, great defense, 15 or so SBs…I love Lorenzo Cain but he’s not MVP. He should be happy with some down ballot votes.

LOLexplainer
11 years ago
Reply to  BurleighGrimes

Machado got name checked cause he’s been the best position player in the Al not named Trout or Donaldson. Cain is nearly two wins off the pace of Donaldson. He does not belong in the discussion.

senor_mike
11 years ago
Reply to  BurleighGrimes

Forget Machado, what about Rizzo?

– Cain is ahead of Rizzo by 0.4 WAR
– The gap between Cain and Trout (1.7) or Donaldson (1.4) is smaller than that between Rizzo and Harper (2.5)
– Cain is clearly the best player for a team that is a near lock for getting into the playoffs

For good measure he is also 0.7 WAR ahead of Price right now.

While I agree Cain is no MVP, his lack of inclusion in the article vs. other names mentioned is very questionable.

My echo and bunnymen
11 years ago
Reply to  BurleighGrimes

Rizzo plays in the NL, who gives a crap?

TR
11 years ago
Reply to  BurleighGrimes

If you think Cain is a legit candidate, I assume you also think Kipnis and JD Martinez are as well?

pitnick
11 years ago
Reply to  BurleighGrimes

12 home runs, not 9, and “just a tick above .300” is now .317. He’ll get some serious top-of-the-ballot votes if he keeps playing like this.

Jeremy
11 years ago
Reply to  BurleighGrimes

The fact is that Machado gets a mention here and Cain is right behind him in WAR. Cain is top 5 in AL MVP race for sure.

Ebenezer
11 years ago
Reply to  TR

If you’re using fWAR, then the position player first tier consists of Trout (6.5) and Donaldson (6.2). Second tier is Machado (5.4) and Cain (4.8), with Kipnis (5.0) and JD Martinez (4.6) having good years on non-playoff contenders.

If you’re using rWAR, Trout (7.1) is the first tier, with Donaldson (6.2), Cain (5.9), and Machado (5.8) the second. Kipnis and Martinez (and Cruz, for that matter) are below 5.0.

Given that Kansas City is a near lock to win their division, Cain deserves to be mentioned for MVP, even if he isn’t the favorite. And there’s still nearly a third of the regular season left, so while I’m guessing Trout or Donaldson will win, if Cain is hot the rest of the season, he may be right there.

Florida ron
11 years ago

If it is the best player award, Harper and goldschmidt qualify.
If things ended today, who has really been most valuable to their teams? The choice then is Rizzo or McCutcheon who have had profound affect on the culture of their teams and teammates.

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago
Reply to  Florida ron

Bryce Harper is the only reason the Nats are in the playoff race right now in this nightmare season.

Max Scherzer
11 years ago

C’mon man.

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago
Reply to  Max Scherzer

You’ve been great!

But the Nats problem has been their 96 wRC+, not their 96 ERA- and 89 FIP-.

KenHarrelson
11 years ago
Reply to  Florida ron

So if Rizzo or McCutcheon were let go tomorrow, would their teammates go right back to staying out all night, not taking care of their bodies, not running out grounders, and generally playing the game the wrong way?

Or was their Culture Boost a permanent +1 WAR to everyone in the organization the day they joined the team?

CM52
11 years ago
Reply to  KenHarrelson

Are you both going to just keep calling him McCutcheon?

KenHarrelson
11 years ago
Reply to  CM52

We’re talking about the Cub’s player and the 2014 landmark Supreme Court case on campaign financing, right?

Malcolm Jamal-Hegyes
11 years ago
Reply to  CM52

It’s MacCutcheon.

Jones
11 years ago
Reply to  Florida ron

In Chicago, I would attribute any changes in culture to Joe Maddon. In Pittsburgh, I would attribute a positive culture to playing .570 ball over the last three years under Clint Hurdle.

Regardless, an MVP vote should not be informed by a player’s perceived influence on culture.

Matt
11 years ago

Price strikes me as a really long shot to take home the MVP.

In the first place, the narrative of him being central to a TOR turnaround seems harder to make when he’s contributing just 1/5 games. As someone noted upthread, Tulo’s a much easier player to pin that on than a guy who has helped TOR win just 2 games in this recent streak, and by year end will be involved in 12/53 TOR games. That’s not really a commentary on value so much as narrative; it doesn’t quite stick in the same way.

Past that, two SPs have won the MVP in the past 20 years, and one of them (2014 Kershaw) was 1.5 WAR better than the small cluster of realistic positional options — a pretty easy choice. Only 2011 Verlander had comparable WAR to positional options (8.4 for Verlander v. 8.1 for Ellsbury and Bautista) and still pulled it out, and that was a weird year: five positional players received first place votes (more than any other year going back to 2004) and critical mass behind any one of them would have toppled Verlander. SPs win when they’re substantially better than positional players, and when they’re comparable but there’s no easy consensus. But it’s hard to see Price beating the best player of a generation and a positional teammate in a three-man race with both substantially beating him in WAR. Obviously “pace” is different from year-end stats, and anything can happen over the remaining months, but Price isn’t even projected to have as much WAR by year-end as Trout/Donaldson have today.

Shirtless George Brett
11 years ago

I know its by no means scientific but as a Royals fan watching the Royal/Jays series it was terrifying whenever Dondaldson came to bat. He seems to always get a huge hit for the Jays. Although to be fair the Jays whole line up is pretty terrifying. As an opposing fan you are legit scared that they are going to hit a HR every almost every single AB.

I really hope they don’t make the playoffs because they are going to suck to play.

Homer Heaven
11 years ago

Seriously, it seems like every Blue Jay boxscore I check shows a HR for Bautista and Donaldson with a Tulo or Encarnacion HR sprinkled in.

francis
11 years ago

I think having Bats & EE behind you makes you a little more frightening. Otherwise, he’d just be walking a third of the time.

KCExile
11 years ago
Reply to  francis

Especially at the Rogers Centre. So many bandbox stadiums in the AL East.

RichW
11 years ago
Reply to  KCExile

So a level playing field makes it OK, right?

Zen Madman
11 years ago
Reply to  KCExile

Houston has the only unlevel playing field I can think of.

Jim
11 years ago

AL: 1) Trout 2) Donaldson 3) Teixeira 4) Machado 5) Cruz

The Royals success like the Cardinals is more of a collective team effort to where I don’t see any one player making the top 5. I also don’t believe pitchers who play in 20% of the games should warrant MVP consideration. That’s what the Cy Young is for.

NL: 1) Harper 2) Goldschmift 3) Posey 4) McCutcheon 5) Rizzo

There’s a good chance if Nats and Giants falter that top 3 candidates all miss playoffs. It could be interesting in NL this year. In my opinion Harper and Goldschmidt are clearly two best players in NL. Although both teams would miss playoffs if season ended today tell me what would Nats and Dbacks records be without these two? Doesn’t the answer define “valuable?”

Lorenzo Cain
11 years ago
Reply to  Jim

I have a higher WAR than Teixeira and Cruz…

chuckb
11 years ago
Reply to  Lorenzo Cain

I’m sorry to report, Lorenzo, but most MVP voters couldn’t care less about WAR. They’re not going to vote for a guy who gets most of his WAR from defense and baserunning, no matter how great it is, instead of a guy who gets most of his WAR from hittin’ dingers. They’re just not.

You’re having a great season but you have about as much chance to win the MVP as Matt Cain does. Please don’t shoot the messenger. I still love you.

francis
11 years ago
Reply to  Jim

Machado > Tex. 3B D and speed > 1B D and no speed.

Jones
11 years ago
Reply to  Jim

I drafted Goldschmift and McCutcheon, and my fantasy team is in last place. Those guys suck!!!

Johan Santa
11 years ago
Reply to  Jones

Just like the guys who drafted me!!

Famous Mortimer
11 years ago
Reply to  Jim

That isn’t what the Cy Young is for. Batters have the Hank Aaron award. The MVP is not “most valuable batter”.

Famous Mortimer
11 years ago

Plus, a pitcher won MVP as recently as last year. I’m sorry reality doesn’t match your beliefs.

jose
11 years ago

Trout and Harper MVPs, wont be the last time.

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago
Reply to  jose

MANTLE AND MAYS!

pitnick
11 years ago

RODGERS AND HART!

Ace Ventura
11 years ago
Reply to  pitnick

FINKEL AND EINHORN!

Kyle
11 years ago

Billy Beane da real MVP

Tyler
11 years ago
Reply to  Kyle

Billy Beane might be the MVP for the Jays by giving them Donaldson.

Jacob DeGrom
11 years ago

If the Mets win the division, why only look at hitters for an MVP candidate? Especially when everyone knows the Mets are winning with pitching? If Price and Greinke are in the mix, why not the Mets best starter?

francis
11 years ago
Reply to  Jacob DeGrom

For one, the Dodgers best starter is having a better year than the Mets best starter. So even if you went pitcher, LA or Greinke would really need to fall apart.

durn
11 years ago
Reply to  francis

I still feel like Kershaw is the king on that team.

francis
11 years ago
Reply to  durn

Yeah, but there’s no award for that.

durn
11 years ago
Reply to  durn

Good point. Since he probably won’t win the Cy Young this year they should just give him an award for doubling his HR/FB and still being the most dominant pitcher in the game.

Roy in Omaha
11 years ago

The only AL players with higher WAR’s than Lorenzo Cain’s are Trout and Donaldson. ’nuff said. Price, unless he wins out in spectacular fashion, isn’t even a factor in this race.

Jason B
11 years ago
Reply to  Roy in Omaha

So…he’s third at best by your own admission? Got it.

spudchukar
11 years ago

Matt Carpenter’s OPS is only 53 points below Posey. If he isn’t in the conversation, he is nearing it.

Truculent Baseball Whore
11 years ago
Reply to  spudchukar

So is Adam Lind’s, ermahgurd!

Majestic Owl
11 years ago

As the Brewers currently have the best record in baseball, I have no doubt that the voters will give consideration to some of their players even if they aren’t quite having the same year as Buster Posey. Yep, the Brewers have earned that. The first-place Brewers. The voters love the Brewers.

florida ron
11 years ago
Reply to  spudchukar

He is not in the top 3 in the National League even just using third basemen.

Brandon Crawford
11 years ago
Reply to  spudchukar

My WAR is higher than Carpenter’s, which is important considering I play the most important defensive position on the field.

“My WAR is higher than Carpenter’s AND Crawford’s.” – Joe Panik

“…” – A.J. Pollock

francis
11 years ago

Derek Jeter gets my vote. The true professional that he is, he took one for the team by retiring, and just look at the results. These are the intangibles that are of real value …

Max
11 years ago

I won’t argue that Harper is, at this point, the likely MVP in the NL. But this piece is way too dismissive of Goldschmidt. He does have a higher WAR than Posey at this point.

And can AJ Pollack at least get a brief mention?

Sean
11 years ago
Reply to  Max

It’s Dave Cameron. Goldschmidt is a Diamondback and therefore automatically disqualified from any praise from said author.

ben
11 years ago
Reply to  Sean

Wow. Read much? “Besides Harper, they’ve been the best hitters in the NL that are likely playoff bound — sorry, Paul Goldschmidt, but your teammates aren’t good enough for you to get real support from the voters”

highrent
11 years ago
Reply to  Max

Uh what part of pitch framing did people miss. Posey’s pitch framining very likely puts him over Goldschmidt. I love goldie and think the Diamondbacks get very little credit for what they have done. But sorry Posey is at this point better candidate and metric wise than Goldie.

Jones
11 years ago
Reply to  Max

It’s faulty reasoning, and it seems the author believes the voting populace is still under the assumption that top-ballot MVP candidates must be on winning teams.

(bear with me)…

The D’Backs are currently in third place at 55-56. In the NL last season, Stanton finished second in MVP voting on a 4th place team (77-85), and Lucroy finished fourth on a 3rd place team (82-80). In the AL, Brantley finished third on a 3rd place team (85-77), and Abreu finished fourth on a 4th place team (73-89).

pitnick
11 years ago
Reply to  Jones

So none of those guys won?

FladaYank
11 years ago

AL MVP, Steven Drew!!!! 🙂

Sean
11 years ago

Paul Goldschmidt finished 2nd in the NL MVP in 2013 despite the Diamondbacks 81-81 record. The Dbacks are close to the pace now.

He’s still not going to beat Harper unless something crazy happens between now and then. But to call Rizzo the darkhorse is pretty laughable.

It’s probably going to go Harper > Goldy > Posey, with Posey being undervalued by the BBWAA.

GDUBBS
11 years ago
Reply to  Sean

I could see Goldy getting second for sure, but I think Posey and the other playoff hitters have a better shot at winning. I see Goldy getting just a bunch of second and third place votes no matter what, but first place votes will always go to one of the playoff guys.

Sean
11 years ago
Reply to  GDUBBS

I pretty much wholly agree with this. I’m not trying to say Goldy is more valuable than Posey, but how the votes will be distributed.

Samuel
11 years ago

Posey at 1B – 2015
91 PA – .363/.429/.600
191 wRC+

Posey at 1B – Career
531 PA – .356/.414/.563
175 wRC+

Posey plays the physically and mentally most tasking position on the field (IMO) and plays it VERY well. He plays 1/2 his games in the lowest scoring environment in the league (albeit with a great lineup) and still puts up traditional MVP stats.

If Goldschmidt were to take up catching and be better at it than anyone else in the league then we can talk about him being as valuable. I just don’t see this one as close.

Samuel
11 years ago
Reply to  Samuel

Posey at Chase field, career
185 PA
.342/.411/.534

Goldschmidt at Chase field
1191 PA
.292/.399/.523

Sean
11 years ago
Reply to  Samuel

Goldschmidt at AT&T Park, career:
168 PA
.321/.423/.599

Posey at AT&T Park, career:
1363 PA
.292/.356/.448

Hey look, I can also play the arbitrary splits and/or small sample size game!

I’m not denying that Posey is the more “valuable” player, even if Goldy currently leads POsey in fWAR (see my “undervalued” statement above). However, that’s not how the voters typically see things. Goldy is having a far better season, offensively, than Posey (172 vs 154 wRC+) and will likely finish ahead of him in the voting, as a result.

Samuel
11 years ago
Reply to  Sean

I wonder what that line looks like without Tim Lincecum.

It was misleading to list Goldschmidts numbers at Chase I wasn’t trying to make a point there. My opinion is that Posey and Goldschmidt are equal offensively but Posey sacrifices that some of that in order to be a more valuable player and it doesn’t seem like he’s getting credit for it.

ElJimador
11 years ago
Reply to  Samuel

Posey hits better as a 1B mostly due to platoon advantage (because the vast majority of his starts there are vs. LHP and Posey kills lefties). Your point about AT&T is a better one however it should be noted that Goldschmidt has been a better hitter than Posey on the road as well. (Goldschmidt away .416 wOBA / 169 wRC+ vs. Posey away .398 wOBA / 156 wRC+).

I’m a Giants fan myself and I don’t mind admitting that Goldschmidt has been the better offensive player so far (even taking into account park effects, etc). He’s just a great player who deserves to be in the MVP discussion as much as anyone.

Samuel
11 years ago
Reply to  ElJimador

I’m on my phone but this year I can see he’s got 11 1b starts vs both LH and RHPs.

I can see that Goldschmidt has had the better year at the plate but my argument is 22 extra points of wRC+ is nowhere near the value Posey provides at catcher. Also I think that if Posey were to play 1B full time he would have Goldschmidt numbers.

Tootu
11 years ago

Al mvp: trout
Nl mvp: DeGrom
Al cy: price
Nl cy:DeGrom
Roy: Correa and Bryant

Matt Duffy quoting Lee Corso
11 years ago
Reply to  Tootu

“Not so fast, my friend.”

francis
11 years ago

The guy who gets no mention that ought to is Prince Fielder. I don’t really see much of a difference between the 2014 Rangers and the 2015 Rangers other than him.

I’d put him below Trout and Donaldson, but certainly ahead of Price.

chuckb
11 years ago
Reply to  francis

The other way in which the 2014 Rangers are like the 2015 Rangers is that neither one will make the playoffs.

Cool Lester Smooth
11 years ago

Yeah, I just can’t see a defensive guy like Donaldson beating out a more traditional slugger like Mike Trout with these writers.

KCExile
11 years ago

Have you seen Donaldson’s batting line? Have you seen Mike Trout play defense?

jimmer
11 years ago

Donaldson was my preseason pick for AL MVP, and I’m still liking it.

chuckb
11 years ago

Too many people here are just not grasping that this article is about who WILL win the MVP, not who SHOULD win the MVP. The overwhelming majority of the BBVA couldn’t possibly care less about WAR. It doesn’t matter what Cain ‘s WAR is, or what Goldschmidt’s WAR is, or who has 0.3 more WAR than David Price. None of that is relevant to this article. Statements like those would be relevant to a “Who SHOULD win the MVP article,” but that’s not this one.

Cain and Goldschmidt have no chance to win the MVP, and it’s not because Dave hates your team. Cain doesn’t hit homers and, as Dave pointed out in the article, “Goldschmidt’steammates aren’t good enough for you to get real support from the voters.” They’re not going to win. It’s conceivable, though doubtful, that Goldschmidt could finish 2nd if the Giants don’t make the playoffs. These statements are not slights toward your favorite teams or favorite players, so stop acting like petulant 5 year olds. They are comments reflecting the manner in which the BBWAA vote.

Mike Trout lost the MVP just a couple of years ago when he was pretty obviously the best player in baseball, simply because his team didn’t make the playoffs and Cabrera’s did. And the Angels actually won more games that season than the Tigers did.

In many respects, Cain and Goldschmidt have legitimate arguments for being among the best 3 or so players in their respective leagues this season. They do not, however, have any chance to win their league’s MVP. Sorry. It sucks, but that’s the way it is.

pitnick
11 years ago
Reply to  chuckb

Ichiro won in 2001 with 8 home runs. Pedroia won in 2008 with 17. McCutchen won in 2013 with 21.

Cain has 12 so far. I very much doubt he’ll win, but I wouldn’t be shocked to see him get a few first place votes if he keeps up his current pace.

Lorenzo Cain
11 years ago
Reply to  pitnick

My name should have at least been in this article. I’m better than half the AL candidates mentioned. Granted it’s a two man race at this point between Trout and Donaldson, but Nelson Cruz? Seriously? On a losing team? For shame Cameron, for shame…

D.K. WillardsonMember since 2020
11 years ago

If Nats falter down the stretch, Harper will take a huge hit w/ him getting tossed from games. Not MVP behavior in BBWA eyes. If they make it, he’s probably a lock.

If Angels don’t make it and/or Astros pull away, due to the huge upside surprise this year, I think Kueckel gets some consideration – they don’t make it without him.

Paul Goldschmift
11 years ago

Keuckel lol.

Phantom Stranger
11 years ago

Unless Harper does something like win the triple crown, voters will look elsewhere if the hyped Nats miss the playoffs. He’s the best player in the league but even recent history indicates many voters prefer a player that led their team into contention for the World Series.

Andrew McCutchen says
11 years ago

I really wish everyone would stop referring to some guy named McCutcheon. His stats are clearly inferior to mine. Same thing for that guy named Truncheon.