Rockies and Arenado Approach the Summit of a Long-Term Deal

Nolan Arenado has ranked among the game’s elite third basemen for the past four seasons, and he’s already made headlines this winter. Last week, he and the Rockies averted an arbitration hearing when he agreed to a $26 million salary for 2019, a record for an arbitration-eligible player. Now, there’s optimism in Denver that the team could reach a longer-term deal that would keep Arenado in purple. It’s a move that not only would be in character for a franchise that has made a concerted attempt to keep its iconic players, but could also impact this winter’s frigid free agent market.

Arenado, who will turn 28 on April 16, is coming off a .297/.374/.561 showing with 38 homers, a 132 wRC+, and 5.7 WAR in 2018. He led the NL in home runs for the third year out of the past four, and while that feat owes much to Coors Field (he has an 87-71 home/road home run split in that span), improved plate discipline has helped him increase both his wRC+ and WAR every year since his 2013 rookie season. Last year’s incremental steps forward owe much to Arenado’s career-best 10.8% walk rate, more than double his 2013-15 mark (5.0%); that increase has keyed a 52-point rise in on-base percentage from his first three years (.318) to his last three (.370).

And then there’s the leather. Arenado has won a Gold Glove in each of his six seasons, and has won the Platinum Glove as the NL’s top overall defender, in each of the past two years; he also took home the Fielding Bible Award as the majors’ top third baseman annually from 2015-17. While UZR doesn’t value his defense nearly as highly as DRS (career totals of 37.6 and 109, respectively), the two marks converged last year (5.8 and 5, respectively). Beyond the numbers, his highlight clips are appointment viewing. Here is the MLB Network compilation of his dives, spins, barehanded grabs, and seemingly impossible throws that accompanied Arenado’s 2018 award wins:

And here’s perhaps his most famous play, his April 14, 2015 over-the-shoulder-and-over-the-tarp-roll catch of a foul ball:

This is an excellent, entertaining player, a franchise cornerstone who has helped take the Rockies to back-to-back playoff appearances for the first time in club history.

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After making $17.75 million last year as part of a two-year, $29.5 million extension signed in January 2017, Arenado sought $30 million in arbitration, with the Rockies countering at $24 million. Even if he’d lost a hearing, he would have surpassed Josh Donaldson’s $23 million salary from last year with the highest one-year salary for an arbitration-eligible player. According to The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal, Arenado and the Rockies settled at $26 million after a face-to-face meeting:

Since then, Monfort has publicly expressed hope for the possibility of a long-term deal. On Monday, he told the Denver Post’s Patrick Saunders, “I’m optimistic that we are close enough that something will come about. It’s in Nolan’s hands, but my last impression with him is that this is something he wants to do.” While stressing that there was no timetable to complete a longer deal, Monfort added, “[W]hat I took out of [the meeting] was a good, sincere [attitude] of, ‘Let’s get this behind us, then let’s go on to the next step and see if we can work something out there.'”

Per to Saunders, Arenado recently said, “I think the future is much brighter in Colorado than it’s been in the past. That excites me and makes me very aware of what’s going on here.” Indeed, an impressive nucleus of young, affordable starting pitching (Kyle Freeland, Jon Gray, German Marquez, Tyler Anderson, and Antonio Senzatela) and the development of shortstop Trevor Story have been key elements of the Rockies’ recent success; that core is under club control through 2021 and ’22. What’s more, the team’s TV revenue situation is better than has been previously reported; the Rockies are making $40 million per year now, not $20 million, which was tied for last among the 29 US teams in Craig Edwards’ 2016 roundup. The team’s current deal runs through 2020, and negotiations for a new one are expected to get underway this summer.

With such a revenue stream, Monfort seems to feel that the Rockies can support a payroll that includes a major commitment to Arenado on a long-term deal. While Cot’s Contracts projects the team to set a franchise record with an Opening Day payroll just over $143 million — up from around $137 million in 2018 (14th in the majors) and $127.8 million in 2017 (15th) — the Rockies have only $40 million committed for 2021, and $23 million for ’22, though of course, the salary increases of their many arb-eligible players will increase those figures.

In marked contrast to the White Sox, whose history under Jerry Reinsdorf I examined on Monday, the Rockies haven’t shied away from sizable long-term commitments. Granted, Monfort and his brother Charlie were merely minority partners until December 2005, when they bought out Jerry McMorris, the team’s principal owner since 1993 (before that, oy, there’s a story). During the McMorris era, the Rockies signed free agents Larry Walker (six years, $75 million in April 1995), Mike Hampton (eight years, $121 million in December 2000), and Denny Neagle (five years, $51 million, also in December 2000) — of which only the first deal went well, the last two disastrously — and extended franchise icon Todd Helton (nine years, $141.5 million, covering 2003-11). The Monforts were the principal owners when the Rockies extended Troy Tulowitzki (10 years, $157.75 million deal in 2010), as well as Charlie Blackmon (six years, $108 million last April), and when they added free agents Ian Desmond (five years, $70 million in December 2016) and Wade Davis (three years, $52 million in December 2017). In terms of guaranteed money, all of those deals besides those of Neagle and Davis exceed the largest guaranteed contract ever signed by the White Sox, Jose Abreu’s six-year, $68 million pact from October 2013.

Whether on the watch of McMorris or the Monforts, not all of the Rockies’ big contracts have unfolded for the better. Some of that has to do with the particularities of playing at altitude — pitches don’t break as much, and athletes’ bodies don’t hold up as well — and some of it has to do with flawed evaluations of the players in question. At a time when so many teams are wringing their hands about spending money, it’s still noteworthy that the Rockies have stepped up to keep their top players. Extending Arenado, and assuming the risks that come with it, would be more in keeping with their style than (to return to my previous example) the White Sox signing Bryce Harper or Manny Machado.

Of course, Arenado has to agree to a deal for this all to come to fruition, and it’s a bit ominous to think of how the relatively grim landscapes of the past two winters might be helping to fulfill the vision that the owners colluded in the mid-1980s to make happen: star players staying with their teams instead of testing the market and creating bidding wars. Still, free agency isn’t an obligation that every star has to fulfill; the combination of comfort and a record-setting salary in a competitive situation isn’t something to be taken lightly.

On that note, if an Arenado extension is completed before Machado signs, it would likely set a new baseline for third basemen (by topping Alex Rodriguez‘s $27.5 million average annual value) and perhaps for all position players (by topping Miguel Cabrera’s $31 million AAV). That, as Rosenthal pointed out, will make it harder for any team in pursuit of Harper or Machado to argue that those younger, higher-profile players should be paid less money.

After the past two winters of slow (or even negative) growth, it’s difficult to put too much faith in long-term estimates, but using the FanGraphs Contract estimation tool with very conservative parameters — $8.0 million per WAR, and just 3% average annual inflation, as opposed to $9 million or more and 5% — suggests a valuation approach $300 million:

Nolan Arenado’s Contract Estimate — 8 yr / $293.9 M
Year Age WAR $/WAR Est. Contract
2019 28 5.2 $8.0 M $41.6 M
2020 29 5.2 $8.2 M $42.8 M
2021 30 5.2 $8.5 M $44.1 M
2022 31 4.7 $8.7 M $41.1 M
2023 32 4.2 $9.0 M $37.8 M
2024 33 3.7 $9.0 M $33.3 M
2025 34 3.2 $9.0 M $28.8 M
2026 35 2.7 $9.0 M $24.3 M
Totals 34.1 $293.9 M

Assumptions

Value: $8M/WAR with 3.0% inflation (for first 5 years)
Aging Curve: +0.25 WAR/yr (18-24), 0 WAR/yr (25-30),-0.5 WAR/yr (31-37),-0.75 WAR/yr (> 37)

Dialing the inflation back even further, to 1%, yields a $279.7 million valuation, and cutting the dollars per WAR figure to a retrograde $7.0 million with that minimal inflation in place still yields $244.7 million. In other words, even using extremely modest assumptions, an eight-year deal for Arenado (presumably incorporating this year’s salary) should bypass Cabrera’s eight-year, $248 million extension.

Another byproduct of an Arenado extension might be a change in the Yankees’ current approach. Circa late November, Rosenthal suggested that their lukewarm pursuits of Harper and Machado — due to a logjam of outfielders in the former case and the infamous “Johnny Hustle” comments in the latter — was because they were more interested in pursuing Arenado (who’s about 18 months older than Harper and 15 months older than Machado) once he reached free agency. In January, SNY.tv’s Andy Martino wrote that Yankees might be working on an even more immediate timeline, “[P]eople briefed on the Yankees thinking say that GM Brian Cashman — who did not respond to a request for comment — has internally discussed the possibility of trying to trade for Arenado either now or during the season. One source said that the teams have likely talked already, but neither Cashman nor Rockies GM Jeff Bridich have confirmed this.”

In theory, if Arenado does cement his desire to stay in Denver long-term, the Yankees could circle back to Machado, whose list of suitors for a long-term deal appear to consist of the White Sox, Padres, Phillies, and a conspicuous lack of other teams. Then again, if Cashman and company have shied away this long, one expects they’ll concoct some other rationale for bypassing Machado and Harper. And it is worth noting that the possibility of signing Harper and Machado was offered as a potential rationale for not signing free agents last winter. While his resume is certainly impressive, it will be interesting to see if Arenado can avoid a similar fate. There’s always another young buck coming, after all, and Mike Trout is only under club control through 2020.

On the other hand, if Arenado and the Rockies don’t get a deal done, it will be very interesting to see how the summer plays out. With the Giants and Diamondbacks both rebuilding, and the Padres possibly looking to spend their way to an earlier competitive window by signing one of the big two free agents, the NL West probably won’t be the three-team race of yesteryear. A Rockies team that’s out of the playoff hunt could conceivably trade Arenado at the July 31 deadline — or even in August, given his huge salary — if he suggests he plans to move on next winter anyway. A Rockies team that’s still in the race for a Wild Card spot or even the NL West flag (something the Rockies have yet to win) as Arenado eyes the horizon would face quite a quandary.

In all of this, we have yet to hear Arenado definitively say that he wants to stick around, but that’s not uncommon. There’s no reason for him to surrender leverage until he’s secured what he wants, and besides, his real talking on that score will be done with a pen and a contract. Until then, this is all just cloud talk, though amid so much cynicism, it’s quaintly refreshing to hear a star and a team at least thinking aloud about sticking together.





Brooklyn-based Jay Jaffe is a senior writer for FanGraphs, the author of The Cooperstown Casebook (Thomas Dunne Books, 2017) and the creator of the JAWS (Jaffe WAR Score) metric for Hall of Fame analysis. He founded the Futility Infielder website (2001), was a columnist for Baseball Prospectus (2005-2012) and a contributing writer for Sports Illustrated (2012-2018). He has been a recurring guest on MLB Network and a member of the BBWAA since 2011, and a Hall of Fame voter since 2021. Follow him on BlueSky @jayjaffe.bsky.social.

84 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
descender
7 years ago

Does it actually make sense for the Rockies to extend him? They would be bidding against themselves and have to pay full price for his Coors field production. Surely a team outside of Coors would value him lower, making his FA market cheaper than the cost to extend him? It seems to me that they would capitalize on the most of his value by trading it this year.

CC AFCMember since 2016
7 years ago
Reply to  descender

I believe all teams are aware of how to adjust for park effects these days

descender
7 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

Right… so why would the Rockies pay full price for a player that other teams would pay less?

BobbyJohn69
7 years ago
Reply to  descender

He has a little more “value” to them as a home-grown superstar who is off to the sort of start that could easily land him in the HoF if he continues at even close to his current pace.

CC AFCMember since 2016
7 years ago
Reply to  descender

Huh? What I’m saying is the Rockies are equally aware of park adjustments, so they wouldn’t necessarily pay more without factoring it in themselves.

descender
7 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

They just gave him $26M in the last year of arbitration and you guys think that the Rockies are going to get a discount on their own player? I’ll take the down votes, I’m confident of how it will play out.

kbn
7 years ago
Reply to  descender

He’s worth well over $26M. You make it sound like they’re over-paying for his production.

Richard Bergstrom
7 years ago
Reply to  descender

It’s also important to note that he has stayed healthy and succeeded at Coors when other players who came over to the Rockies didn’t. That has value to the Rockies above other teams.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  descender

It obviously depends on the price. The Rockies paid what I would have expected the actual free agent price would have been for Blackmon. The team is supposed to get a slight discount, if not more, if you’re giving the contract now. If the Rockies hand Arenado a 10 year, $300M deal that starts after the current one then I would say it doesn’t make that much sense. They can probably wait until next offseason and offer that and it will probably be the high offer (not guaranteed, but it’s likely).

But if, say, you proposed an 8 year, $240M deal that started this upcoming year (giving a bump in this year’s salary, plus another 7 years on top of that) I would say it makes a ton of sense for the Rockies to do this. You keep a homegrown star, which one of those things that builds a lot of goodwill with the fans, and he’s likely to return good value on that contract. Whether Arenado would agree to such a contract is another question.

BobbyJohn69
7 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I’ve been thinking 8/240 for a while. Gives him another crack at a late-career contract and values him pretty fairly right now.

Cave Dameron
7 years ago

7 years / $175 million.

humanbeingbean
7 years ago
Reply to  Cave Dameron

He just agreed to $26 million for the year, so that’d be a pay cut.

Cave Dameron
7 years ago
Reply to  humanbeingbean

So he get’s more AAV in a 1 year contract in his prime than he would in a 7 year contract that would extend past his prime. Is that surprising to you?

Travis LMember since 2016
7 years ago
Reply to  Cave Dameron

Except the one year deal was a compromise on his part while he’s owned by 1 team. Do you think the long terms discount outweighs the fact that a 30x larger market means much much higher bids?

descender
7 years ago
Reply to  humanbeingbean

@humanbeingbean Yeah that’s how long term contracts work. You don’t earn as much per year.

hcorry2001
7 years ago

Negotiating in good faith, i would offer 7 years/$210 million. That’s a fair offer.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  hcorry2001

Mine was similar: An 8-year, $240M contract that started in 2019, bumping up the salary for this year and with a 7/$210M in “new years” afterwards. Arenado get a bird in hand; the Rockies get a discount and to keep their homegrown star.

Travis LMember since 2016
7 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

It’s a small point, but why would the Rockies outnegotiate themselves after they already have 2019’s value signed?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  Travis L

Under this scenario, they’d only have to go for 7 years of new money instead of 8, and bumping up this year’s deal is a sweetener.

hcorry2001
7 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Only reason i went 7 years is to not go past the age 34 season

hcorry2001
7 years ago
Reply to  hcorry2001

After checking, he will be 35 at the end of the contract….that’s ok. 4 of the 7 years will be in his prime before i expect a downward curve in production.

BobbyJohn69
7 years ago

I am FAR more hopeful of this getting done than I have been for months. I honestly believe he sees a competitive group in Denver (which it is, and which he wants) and that is a huge thing to him.

That said, I would still trade him at some point during Spring Training if he isn’t inked to an extension.

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
7 years ago

87-71 is hardly an extreme home and road split. It gets more than a little boring, and very redundant, to hear the never ending complaints about statistics that hitters get ripped for because they play in Coors Field. Aaron Judge has hit 51 HR’s at Home and 28 on the road in the last two years. Didi Gregorius 2018 splits were 19-8 but while it is acknowledged that Yankee Stadium is a hitter’s park it is never mentioned in the same breath as Coors Field.

BobbyJohn69
7 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

Yeah, the LOLCOORS thing is old and WAY overblown.

There are more than enough examples of very good players enjoying success away from Coors after having played there that people should probably shelve that.

Jon
7 years ago
Reply to  BobbyJohn69

There are also a lot of players who had success in Coors who ranged from awful to mediocre once they left. There are very very few, I believe, who were as good or better outside of Coors than they were at Coors (which of course makes sense).

Psychic... Powerless...
7 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

Why so negative? Jay didn’t call Arenado’s split “extreme,” and he certainly didn’t “rip” Arenado or “complain” about it.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

The Rockies are convinced that the park adjustments in the public domain are not properly adjusting for offensive production in the humidor era. I am starting to come around to this line of thinking. It’s the weirdest park in MLB, even weirder than Fenway, because the outfield is so dang big.

This is where more granular batted-ball data, like Tony Blengino does, is truly invaluable. You can see how some hitters would get a much bigger boost in Coors than others. Someone pointed out to me once (most likely here) that Blackmon gets a lot of value from being able to whack balls into right field and get triples, something that he probably couldn’t do anywhere near as much as in other ballparks. But my understanding is that Arenado has a batted-ball profile that works in other stadiums too.

johansantana17Member since 2026
7 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

BP was aware of this issue in designing its new all-encompassing offensive metric, DRC+, and it penalizes Rockies hitters to a significantly lesser degree than wRC+ and OPS+.

More here: https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/46944/drc-updates-and-improvements/

sadtromboneMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  johansantana17

They might have wound up in the right place, but I am not sure they got there the right way. Part of why they penalize them less is because they don’t count triples as much! I really need someone to break down exactly what they did with DRC+ because right now it doesn’t make that much sense (and I have read their articles on it, it’s just very vague).

TheGarrettCooperFanClub
7 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

it really is such a tired and terrible take. also you need to remember that he also plays most of his road games in the NL west, home of other pitchers parks. most players are worse at home than on the road and colorado players get dinged for that much more than other players for no real reason

Jon
7 years ago

I believe his road OPS once you exclude LA, SD, and SF (and the latter two were actually above average in terms of runs scored last year) was something like .852. Very good yes, but if (and granted it’s a big if) teams knew that’s what his overall production level would be, would they pay $30M+ per season?

johansantana17Member since 2026
7 years ago
Reply to  Jon

A 27 year old projected for an .852 OPS and excellent 3B defense sounds pretty similar to another player for whom teams are answering the salary question right now.

Jon
7 years ago
Reply to  johansantana17

Fair, so I guess we’ll see. I’ll even say that Arenado’s age might offset Machado’s makeup issues, so it is a good comparison.

jdfree49
7 years ago
Reply to  Jon

Find me one MLB star who doesn’t have a significantly lower road OPS than home OPS.

We need to start comparing apples to apples, here.

dl80Member since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

Great point. Judge is absolutely a product of Yankee Stadium and it is almost never mentioned.

He’s at .322/.444/.693 (196 wRC+) at home and .226/.350/.443 (114 wRC+) away for his career.

martyvan90Member since 2017
7 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

Actually Fenway (second best hitter’s park per a 2016 ESPN analysis) is more of a “hitter’s park” than Yankee Stadium. Yankee Stadium has the second highest home run favorability ranking for left handed batters (and is high for HRs overall) but ranks among the lowest for extra base hits. Perhaps that makes your point that there are a lot of misconceptions regarding ballparks. How parks are favorable and unfavorable for hitters and pitchers are not straightforward and provide a lot of data for teams to design teams and adjust in game strategy.

Jon
7 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

How about a 1.032 vs .832 OPS split? At home he’s Mike Trout, on the road he’s not quite Jose Abreu. Seems somewhat extreme to me.

Also , the reason Yankee Stadium isn’t mentioned in the same breath as Coors is because it’s not nearly as much as a hitter’s park. You’re only looking at home runs, which Coors actually doesn’t increase as much (even though it did last year). Coors consistently (like just about every year) increases overall offense (i.e. runs) the most.

BobbyJohn69
7 years ago
Reply to  Jon

So how do you explain Judge’s 1.137 / .793 OPS split in that same department?

Seems like LOLYANKEESTADIUM ought to become a thing.

Jon
7 years ago
Reply to  BobbyJohn69

I can’t, but it’s not really relevant.

The Yankees as a whole have had an OPS of 787 at home. and .730 on the road since 2015 and .

The Rockies are at .860 (home). vs .680 (away).

You can’t even compare the two parks, and using the outlier (Judge) as evidence that Yankee Stadium is as much a hitter’s park as Coors couldn’t be more a more incorrect methodology.

mockcarrMember since 2016
7 years ago

Well, if Machado and Harper don’t get their 30m per year, why should Arenado expect to do so?

PC1970Member since 2024
7 years ago
Reply to  mockcarr

Because he’s a better player? Seriously, his bWAR is 8 more than Harper the last 4 years (which includes Harper’s 2015 10 WAR year). He is about 3 WAR over Machado in that time. However, he doesn’t have Machado’s baggage (comments Jay mentioned, injury history) & as a career long Rocky (Rockie?) he brings Colorado some extra goodwill for locking him up.

mockcarrMember since 2016
7 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

That’s debatable. There’s 1 WAR difference between he and Machado the last three years, Machado is younger and just played SS really well for the Dodgers. Just imagine what Manny could do if he hustled! Arenado could end up competing with Rendon and Donaldson for $$$ that teams are no longer spending. Conditions could actually be worse, it’s not like many free agents not named Corbin probably feel satisfied.

averagejoe15Member since 2018
7 years ago
Reply to  mockcarr

Arenado may also be undervalued by WAR since park adjustments are likely overly negative for Coors in the humidor era as others have mentioned.

tung_twista
7 years ago
Reply to  averagejoe15

Except most park factors take the past 3~5 years into account and humidor has been around since 2002.

averagejoe15Member since 2018
7 years ago
Reply to  tung_twista

You’re right that the humidor effect itself would be folded into park adjustments by now. I was thinking more of the inverse Coors effect people talk about. But looking at some of the studies on that there isn’t really compelling evidence one way or the other.

Brewtown_Kev
7 years ago
Reply to  mockcarr

“Just imagine what Manny could do if he hustled!”

Ah, but that’s the rub, isn’t it? This has been said about a lot of guys, and rarely, if ever, have those guys actually started hustling, especially *after* signing the big contract.

Plus, he played SS *decently* (not “really well”) for the Dodgers for part of a season, after playing SS *poorly* for the Orioles for the first half-plus of the same season.

Jay Dee
7 years ago
Reply to  mockcarr

Pretty hard to imagine when said guy walks out singles off the wall the first chance he gets in the Ws in a walk year none the less- Not the type of guy i want to go all in on

tung_twista
7 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

FWIW Steamer projects Machado at 5.1, Harper at 4.9 and Arenado at 4.8.
Machado and Harper are one year younger than Arenado which matters in long term contracts.

PC1970Member since 2024
7 years ago
Reply to  tung_twista

Fair point. However:

– Arenado brings extra value to Colorado as the “face” of the franchise. Not sure how to value that, but, it’s clear that teams DO value it.
– No history of severe knee injuries.
– No history of “not hustling” with stupid commentary. Maybe it’s nothing, but, when you’re guaranteeing $200+M that’s something you look at.
– No history of boorish behavior. Ties into the “face” of the franchise stuff. Arenado is overall a much more likeable player.
– Projections are probably within the error margin. If you believe that to be the case, you sign the player you know, that is more likeable, that you trust will not take the $$ & flake out or say/do something embarrassing.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  mockcarr

So far, we have been hearing that teams are willing to offer Machado/Harper AAV’s in that range. They just don’t want to go 9 or 10 years.

BobbyJohn69
7 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Yep. It’s the total years, not the AAV.

AMC522
7 years ago

Jay, thanks for the article. Quick question regarding the contract estimates: Do you think each Win that a player is projected to produce is valued the same way by teams, or should we be focusing on the value produced over the league average for that position? For example, Mike Moustakas is a pretty good proxy for a league average 3rd baseman (about 2 WAR per year), and last year (age 29 season) he signed for 1 yr at $6.5mm. So is $6.5mm perhaps a better estimate for the first 2 WAR that Arenado is projected to produce, while the 3 WAR above that is what the Rockies would be willing to pay the big bucks for? Put another way, should a contract estimate value Wins in a purely linear way, or should it account for some Win hurdle that a player needs to clear? Thanks.

dl80Member since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  AMC522

This is a good point, and I think it reflects the reality of things. Say $2m for the first win, $6m for the first 2, etc.

averagejoe15Member since 2018
7 years ago
Reply to  AMC522

I think on deals of the same length that could be true. But some of the WAR premium for higher profile free agents is paid for in contract length. Arenado is going to get something like 7+ years to Moose’s 2. Also some teams are simply willing to pay more money for wins on the free agent market than others so it’s not easy to place a definitive dollar amount on WAR that applies to the entire market.

averagejoe15Member since 2018
7 years ago
Reply to  averagejoe15

*Moose’s 1

johansantana17Member since 2026
7 years ago
Reply to  AMC522

The focus should be on the value produced over a team’s internal alternatives.

Kevbot034
7 years ago

I’m confused how wRC is calculated. Last year was Arenado’s best season, at 132. But in 17, his OBP, SLUG, ISO power and wOBA were all higher, as well as his baserunning value. His wRC was 129. I know the difference in is small, but why is it there at all? Does the standard of 100 wRC change in its scale each year as well? I’m sorry, I just don’t get it despite having read the calculation multiple times lol. Can someone help?!?

tb.25
7 years ago
Reply to  Kevbot034

In short, yes. wRC+ does have a slightly different “base” each year.

In long: wRC+ comes from wRC, and wRC is partially derived from wOBA. Within the wOBA calculation is a “wOBA scale.” That scale is unique to each season, varying in value to equate league-average wOBA with league-average OBP.

Kevbot034
7 years ago
Reply to  tb.25

So you can be personally better with a lower wRC, but if the league was stronger, it might not show. Do I have that right?

dl80Member since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  Kevbot034

And if you decrease a little and the league decreases a lot (which is what happened), you come out looking better by comparison.

Regression is Mean
7 years ago

I do agree with some commenters that the ZIPS forecast is likely based on having 50% of his playing time in Coors Field and that non-Rockies teams will likely have to regress at least a little those type of projections, regardless of the park adjustments inherent to those calculations. There is a lot to the Coors effect more than just the actual stadium (the lingering impacts it may have in away parks clouds the issue) and most players are better home vs. road, but his away wRC+ being only 108 for his career does lead me to think that he is of a higher value to the Rockies than other clubs, which may explain his relative openness to not testing the FA market (in addition to seeing the plights of Harper and Machado).

averagejoe15Member since 2018
7 years ago

Wasn’t there an article discussing how hitting away from Coors is more difficult for hitters since the ball tends to break more dramatically than they are used to? You would think a hitter of Arenado’s caliber would almost benefit playing full-time away from Coors where the ball will move more uniformly game to game versus playing half his games in Coors and half outside, with dramatically different pitch movements. Unless we are to believe Arenado’s hitting skills are predicated on ability to only hit flat pitches.

Regression is Mean
7 years ago
Reply to  averagejoe15

Yes, this was my point that there is a lot into park effects that go beyond just the impact of Coors’ crazy outfield and different atmosphere. But, and I see I am being down-voted so I guess maybe I am off base, my point was more that I think using Jay’s basic ZIPS forecast is likely to be slightly more regressed / modified by teams than a typical case.

Jon
7 years ago
Reply to  averagejoe15

“Unless we are to believe Arenado’s hitting skills are predicated on ability to only hit flat pitches.”

Do you have a reason to think otherwise?

averagejoe15Member since 2018
7 years ago
Reply to  Jon

Nolan wRC+ 2013-2018 Away
68
99
119
116
126
104
Nolan wRC+ 2013-2018 Home
85
123
123
136
133
161
He’s been above league average away from Coors in the past while having to adjust to better breaking stuff. His recent numbers away from home are good enough that I don’t think it gives one reason to believe that Nolan wouldn’t be a similar hitter in a different park if he faced better breaking stuff more consistently.
That said wish I could figure out how to quickly do home-away splits by pitch type to try and make a better case.

TheGarrettCooperFanClub
7 years ago

I find it hard to believe that the Rockies will let the best player in franchise history walk for nothing. I think they will “overpay” him to keep him off the free market if they have to. They will try their hardest at the least.

BobbyJohn69
7 years ago

I don’t think they will have to “overpay”, to be honest. From reading Monfort’s comments it really sounds like both sides are close to landing on the same valuation, which means they are also likely close to a true market value.

TheGarrettCooperFanClub
7 years ago
Reply to  BobbyJohn69

“overpay” meaning probably close to or breaking a record and fans reacting like “lol they paid this much for a product of coors” but in actuality meaning getting underpaid for the player that he actually is. it will be a friendly salary on that basis

sadtromboneMember since 2020
7 years ago

I was thinking about Jay’s comment about the Yankees and Arenado. I think there are reasons why teams might want to prefer Arenado to Machado, because Arenado is a whole lot less likely to mail it in after getting a big contract (I’m not saying Machado will, but Arenado seems like he’d be more likely to keep grinding).

But since Machado is younger and otherwise a similar player, the idea that you would wait another year when you have a guy right now who you could sign for similar money is kind of silly. There’s no guarantee you’re winning the bidding for Arenado, or Arenado could tear his ACL, or Arenado could sign a long-term deal, or…the list keeps going. Waiting is not something you should do if you actually think you need a 3rd baseman. If you need a 3rd baseman, the guy you want is already here. Signing Machado now gets you more age-20 years of control, both because of this year and because he’s a full year younger.

carterMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I know pure speculation isn’t what we are supposed to do here, but I just can’t shake the idea that teams are reluctant to give Machado a long term commitment for that reason. Maybe there is other information that we aren’t aware of, like how people who don’t hustle age poorly, etc. I find myself thinking whoever signs Machado is going to regret it, where as I don’t feel that with either of the other two. Harper wasn’t playing hard in the outfield last year, but you can guarantee that was because of this upcoming contract, and I’d expect his future defensive metrics to take a slight positive step to nearly average to average.

PC1970Member since 2024
7 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I agree with this & carter’s comment. One thing that stands out about Arenado is his work ethic. He made himself into a GG 3B after many thought he couldn’t cut it in the minors. He has improved his plate discipline. He is the type of player that seems to be always working to get better. Maybe Machado is too, but, I don’t get the sense that is the case. Add in the hustling comments, some boorish behavior & I could see preferring to spend $250M elsewhere.

GTOBalance
7 years ago

Increased his WAR every single year is quite interesting, I wonder how often this actually happens to HoF caliber players? Harper this year is of course all over the place, and Machado himself has had a couple marginal seasons since his first 5 WAR one.

BallparkFanMember since 2016
7 years ago

I’m quite sure Arenado has more ‘face of the franchise’ marketing value to the Rockies than any other player in team history.

In addition to his on field performance and what seems like once-a-game highlight reel plays in the field, he is a much more frequent and enthusiastic interviewee than Todd Helton, Larry Walker, or Troy Tulowitzki ever were.

He is a joy to watch on a day in day out basis. That has economic value not measured by WAR.

johansantana17Member since 2026
7 years ago
Reply to  BallparkFan

He’s also extremely popular with female fans.

Jon
7 years ago

I’m not at all saying he’s not a good player, and I know that WAR takes into account where he plays, but how sure are we about how he’ll produce outside of Coors?

Very very few players were as good or better (on, say, a raw OPS basis) after leaving Coors, and many were worse (some significantly so).

His road OPS this year was something like .770, and while I don’t think he’d be anywhere near as bad as that, do we really think that teams are going to be in a hurry to offer a $30M+ AAV on a very long term contract in order to find out?

Even if we took a number which I have seen casually mentioned as a reasonable expectation (.850, which is his non-LA,SD,SF road OPS), and he was guaranteed to hit that, would teams pay, say $250M over 8 years for that?

bombguy85
7 years ago
Reply to  Jon

When you’re talking Coors and other parks stats after leaving Colorado it would be helpful to use park adjusted stats instead of OPS (since you said on a raw OPS basis). If Coors inflates offense than OPS will therefore be inflated, best to use something like wRC+ or OPS+.

Example – Matt Holliday’s best 2 season in Colorado were 151 and 141 wRC+ in 2007 and 2008 respectively. His first 2 seasons with the Cardinals were 149 and 154 wRC+ in 2010 and 2011. His OPS those years?

2007 – 1.012
2008 – .947
2010 – .922
2011 – .912

Jon
7 years ago
Reply to  bombguy85

Totally agree. My reason for using raw OPS was just because it’s been implied that as a free agent, teams would be eager to pay him as if he was a “true” 1.000+ OPS hitter.

But looking at wRC+, there are a couple interesting things about Arenado:

1) from 2014 to 2017, his home/road splits were fairly similar. Home wRC+ by year:
2015 – 123
2016 – 136
2017 – 133

Road wRC+ by year:
2015 – 119
2016 – 116
2017 – 126

Still better at home (even once Coors is accounted for).

2) What happened in 2018? Home wRC+ = 161 , Road wRC+ = 104. That’s off the charts.

In any case, taking 4-year averages, he’s at 138 (home) and 116 (away). Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt and use his average wRC+ (127), is that really a $30M player, even given his defense?

johansantana17Member since 2026
7 years ago
Reply to  Jon

The reasons he is still better at home include but are not necessarily limited to:

(a) the Coors Field hangover effect,

(b) the fact that in general and all other things being equal, players perform slightly better at home than on the road.

“Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt and use his average wRC+ (127), is that really a $30M player, even given his defense?”

Maybe? We are finding that out right now with Machado (120 career wRC+, excellent 3B defense, 1.2 years younger than Arenado but with personality/maturity concerns that negate some or all of Machado’s advantage in youth).

oozyalbies1
7 years ago

“Then again, if Cashman and company have shied away this long, one expects they’ll concoct some other rationale for bypassing Machado and Harper.”

How about this concoction – they don’t have anywhere to play these guys?

IF is clogged. OF is clogged. DH is clogged.

They’re deep and versatile as is. Why exactly should they make the investment? To appease the media or MLBPA? To be the “same old” Yankees?

The only way that they could have a spot for Machado long-term, or even beyond July, is by moving Andujar to 1B (or another team), which I believe would be counter-productive. There is no reason to feel that he would be any more successful at 1B than he has been at 3B. We also are reacting to one season’s worth of defensive metrics on Andujar, which most who are familiar admit that they take three to normalize.

I’d prefer Harper > Machado, but I recognize that they unfortunately have no place to play him and have moved on. If they could move Stanton, that would be one thing. But, as is, signing him would mean that you’d either:

a) deploy a defensive OF of Judge, Stanton and Harper
b) DH either Harper or Stanton every day, and play the other in LF

They are obviously not interested in the former. Hicks is a solid defensive CF and finally broke out offensively (put aside that he’s a Cashman favorite). They also are evidently hesitant to deploying Stanton in LF or displacing Judge and putting him there. They want Stanton to be the regular DH, and otherwise use the spot for one of Andujar or Sanchez.

Let someone else pony up and sign these guys.

tung_twista
7 years ago
Reply to  oozyalbies1

“There is no reason to feel that [Andujar] would be any more successful at 1B than he has been at 3B”

His -25 DRS and -16 UZR (if they were close to his true talent level) suggest that he could be more valuable as a league average 1B than a league worst 3B.

oozyalbies1
7 years ago
Reply to  tung_twista

But, it’s a one year sample. For a rookie. And who’s to say that he wouldn’t be a league worst 1B? Signing Machado for 7+ years at $25mil+ AAV to displace an already poor defender, and rob him of his only plus tool, his arm, just doesn’t seem worth it to me.

Let them roll with Andujar, Torres and Didi, who I believe they are keen on resigning (assuming good health and performance when he returns from TJ), and Machado can sign with someone who..errr…I don’t know…actually needs him?

The GuruMember since 2026
7 years ago

hes going to get screwed. remember last year their were articles saying same thing about machado and harper cashing in. not happening. sad the direction mlb is trending.

Jon
7 years ago
Reply to  The Guru

If “screwed” means having to settle for something like $210M over 7 years instead of $250M over 8, then I wholeheartedly agree.

It’s beyond me why people see that guys who (at the risk of oversimplifying things) are somewhere around the 10th to 20th best players in the sport and are getting offers commensurate with that, and think they are getting screwed because they’re not getting the biggest contracts in MLB history.

Richard Bergstrom
7 years ago

Though the Rockies owners are considered “cheap” by the fanbase, they’ve always made sure there were popular players to root for. They’re great at building a brand, just not as smart on the baseball side of things.