So You Want to Trade for Shohei Ohtani

Gary A. Vasquez-USA TODAY Sports

With the August 1 trade deadline fast approaching, the question on every baseball fan’s mind is: Will the Los Angeles Angels trade Shohei Ohtani?

Or at least, it was the question on every fan’s mind. On Wednesday evening, Sports Illustrated’s Tom Verducci reported that the 52-49 Angels have pulled Ohtani off the trade market.

What this piece presupposes is: What if they hadn’t?

We compiled this whole thing before Verducci’s report (and the Angels’ subsequent trade for Lucas Giolito), and we’re going to run it as a thought exercise because we aren’t about to let Arte Moreno ruin our fun. That Ohtani is reportedly no longer available perhaps suggests that the real offers Perry Minasian and Co. received were underwhelming. So what would it take to pry Ohtani loose?

Others have taken that question for a spin, and now it’s our turn. Eleven members of the FanGraphs staff agreed to act as the GMs of opposing clubs and put their best proposal forward in an effort to land the two-way star. You’ll find those offers below. Teams are listed in descending order of their FanGraphs playoff odds. Prospect-eligible players have their Future Value grades noted in parentheses; you can find full scouting reports and tool grades for prospects and recent graduates on The Board.

And now, to the offers!

Los Angeles Dodgers
Angels Receive: C Diego Cartaya (55 FV), 2B Michael Busch (50 FV), SP Gavin Stone (50 FV), SP Nick Frasso (40+ FV), OF Jonny Deluca (40 FV)
Dodgers Receive: DH/SP Shohei Ohtani

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Probably the last thing Arte Moreno wants to do is trade Shohei Ohtani to the team next door, but if he were willing to, I’d like to think this package from the Dodgers might look acceptable.

I used the 2021 Max Scherzer/Trea Turner blockbuster as a template, though in this case the All-Star hitter and All-Star pitcher being acquired are one and the same. In that deal, the Dodgers sent the Nationals starting pitcher Josiah Gray (55 FV), catcher Keibert Ruiz (55 FV), starting pitcher Gerardo Carrillo (40 FV) and outfielder Donovan Casey (not ranked) — and in that case they got an extra year of control (that of Turner) for the package. Here, with the competition so heavy, I’m going to have to include more talent and concede that extra club control while hoping that I at least get the inside track on retaining Ohtani once he hits free agency.

With All-Star catcher Will Smith in place and still with two years of club control, and with Dalton Rushing at High-A and likely to crack the Top 100 Prospects list next year, I’m headlining my package with Cartaya, a 21-year-old catcher who placed 28th on the Top 100 list this spring but who admittedly is having a rough first taste of Double-A. From the team’s wealth of pitching prospects, I’m tabbing Stone, who has scuffled in his three starts for the Dodgers this year but looks like a mid-rotation starter in the making, and Frasso, who was acquired in the Mitch White trade last summer and currently boasts a 32% strikeout rate at Double-A. I’m not opposed to swapping either of these pitchers out for Ryan Pepiot, Michael Grove, or even Emmet Sheehan, all of whom have more major league experience but probably lower ceilings.

I’m also including Busch and Deluca. Busch is a hitter with no clear defensive position (he can spot at second base); if this deal goes through, the Angels will have the DH slot open. Deluca is a fifth outfielder and depth piece, somebody with a big league future but not an overwhelming one. – Jay Jaffe

Tampa Bay Rays
Angels Receive: SP Taj Bradley, 1B Kyle Manzardo (50 FV), SP/RP Ian Seymour (40+ FV)
Rays Receive: DH/SP Shohei Ohtani, RP Carlos Estévez, and C Gustavo Campero (HM)

In this league, teams are often wary of the risk associated with trading potential long-term pieces for a rental. However, much like the Diamondbacks, Orioles, and Reds, the Tampa Bay Rays have plenty of prospect depth and young big leaguers to pull from. And while it sounds like Yandy Díaz will be able to avoid an IL stint for his recent groin injury, it isn’t totally clear when the team’s most productive hitter will be able to rejoin a lineup that is trying to reclaim its spot atop the AL East. That, plus a pitching staff thinned by injuries, makes it clear that reinforcements are in order and should be pursued aggressively. Thus, the Rays should propose the following deal: Taj Bradley, Kyle Manzardo, and Ian Seymour for Shohei Ohtani, Carlos Estévez, and Gustavo Campero.

Bradley is an obvious headliner for an organization that will need pitching following Ohtani’s departure. The Rays right-hander can be inserted near the top of the Angels rotation, and any deal between these two teams would most likely have to include him. From Tampa’s perspective, a rotation of Ohtani, Shane McClanahan, Tyler Glasnow, and Zach Eflin (Eflin left Wednesday’s start with left knee discomfort, though his initial MRI results were encouraging) would be the best in the American League and would provide sufficient justification for trading away a talented, controllable pitcher such as Bradley. Eflin’s injury hurts, but a playoff top three of Ohtani, McClanahan, and Glasnow is tempting. Manzardo is directly blocked in the majors by the likes of Díaz and the combination of Luke Raley and Harold Ramírez. He’s an upper minors first baseman and is expendable in the short-term. You build up prospect depth for moves like this. Lastly, Seymour is facing a 40-man roster crunch coming off Tommy John surgery but has potentially electric stuff. He’d have more of an opportunity to stretch out as a starter in an organization like the Angels.

Adding Ohtani the pitcher would extend an already good rotation, but the big premium here is at the plate. In the last two months, the Rays’ have run a 99 team wRC+, and the lineup suddenly looks closer to average than elite. Ohtani would help bolster an offense that has struggled against right-handed pitching – he boasts a 195 wRC+ and 27 home runs against right-handers, though he’s not exactly shabby against southpaws. In addition to Ohtani, Estévez would bolster a bullpen that has lost countless relievers to significant arm injuries. He’s under team control through 2024, and unlike other Rays relievers, he isn’t even a project. Lastly, Campero is a late-blooming catching prospect who could provide offensive impact at what might be the only weak position in the organization. Despite Edgar Quero being traded to the White Sox and opening up a promotion, he is still blocked by Logan O’Hoppe. – Esteban Rivera

Baltimore Orioles
Angels Receive: INF Joey Ortiz (50 FV), OF Colton Cowser (45 FV), SP/RP DL Hall (45 FV)
Orioles Receive: DH/SP Shohei Ohtani

More than just about any other team, the Orioles are in an enviable position when it comes to the Ohtani talks, able to trade what amounts to expendable, close-to-the-majors talent — and they don’t even have to touch Jackson Holliday.

This isn’t to disparage Ortiz (the 51st-best prospect in baseball), Cowser (the Orioles’ no. 6 prospect, who dominated Triple-A before his call-up), or Hall (the team’s no. 9 prospect), all of whom have what it takes to contribute at the major league level. Rather, the three are replaceable on the big league roster.

Ortiz was the best-ranked of the three prospects midseason, but he can’t consistently earn playing time on a roster that’s got Gunnar Henderson, Jordan Westburg, Ramón Urías, Adam Frazier and Jorge Mateo covering second, third, and short — Ortiz has just 34 big league plate appearances despite a 141 wRC+ in Triple-A.

Cowser is currently on the big league roster, though he’s off to a slow start with a 45 wRC+ in 42 PA. Of course, the Orioles wouldn’t trade him because of that, but his opportunities will probably dwindle when Cedric Mullins is back from the IL, and Heston Kjerstad (regarded as the better prospect and also capable of playing first base) is also knocking on the door.

Hall is the only pitcher in the proposed deal and also the biggest unknown; he’s been down in Sarasota working on regaining his velocity and just pitched for the first time at any level since June 14 in a game on Monday. But his strikeout stuff has been tantalizing when in the majors; he’s struck out more than a third of the opponents he’s faced in his 16.2 big league innings.

Ultimately, the always-straddling-the-line Angels would find themselves with three players they could have in the majors immediately or at least imminently. Ortiz could take over at second base for the struggling Luis Rengifo right away, and Cowser could take an outfield spot and a few half-days in the Ohtani-less DH spot. Even with his velocity in peak form, Hall carries significant relief risk, but he could shore up a bullpen corps that has Carlos Estévez, Matt Moore, Jacob Webb, and José Soriano as its only really trusted options.

And, of course, Ohtani would give a boost to an Orioles lineup that’s solid (11th in the majors in OPS) but lacks a truly terrifying bat, and bolster a middling rotation (15th in the majors in ERA) that’s currently relying on a breakout from Grayson Rodriguez as its best hope for a step forward. The O’s could easily accommodate the kind of six-man rotation that Ohtani’s been accustomed to, particularly with Rodriguez’s innings being monitored anyway. – Jon Becker

Texas Rangers
Angels Receive: CF Evan Carter (50 FV), 2B Justin Foscue (50 FV), SP Jack Leiter (50 FV), RP Kumar Rocker (40+ FV), LF Dustin Harris (40+ FV)
Rangers Receive: DH/SP Shohei Ohtani

I’m really hitting the gas here because I think Texas is the place where a two-month audition would be most meaningful to a club’s chances of signing Ohtani this offseason. Take him to a Cowboys game, romance him with what Texas has to offer at the cost of a slightly longer plane ride home, and remind him about the income tax rates in the Lone Star State relative to California.

I’m okay with coughing up Carter here because it looks like Leody Taveras has actually arrived. I’m personally kind of lukewarm on Carter (more on that here), but based on the types of players the Angels tend to acquire, I bet they’re not. The internet hype around Carter makes the optics of this deal with him at the center pretty attractive for the Halos.

Ditto for Leiter and Rocker, two marquee names Arte Moreno already knows. Leiter will probably be a solid big league starter, but I don’t think the Rangers would feel burned in a serious way by moving him within the division. Rocker I had evaluated as a reliever before his recent injury, and he seems fine to give up as a sweetener for the most talented player on the planet (he was the last guy I added to this offer).

Before you puke because this is too much to give up, remember that I’m essentially getting two players here. Texas doesn’t really have room for Justin Foscue on a star-studded big league infield, so he can go. Again, Foscue’s a good player, but he and Dustin Harris would both appeal to Anaheim’s statistical sensibilities in a way I’m eager to leverage because he’s superfluous to the Rangers for as long as the trio of Marcus Semien, Corey Seager, and Josh Jung is hitting. Aside from the rehabbing Rocker, this entire offer is composed of near-ready players who can help make Los Angeles’ rebuild go more quickly. Texas would have Earth’s hottest ticket for three months, with the hope that Shohei likes the way the wind blows through his hair in Arlington and signs up for more. – Eric Longenhagen

Toronto Blue Jays
Angels Receive: 1B Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
Blue Jays Receive: DH/SP Shohei Ohtani, OF Jo Adell

Would the Toronto Blue Jays be bold enough to trade one of their cornerstones — a player with two-plus years of team control remaining who was born in Canada, no less — for a rental plus a former top prospect who has thus far fallen short of his potential? Probably not, but the idea has more merit than you might think. If I were Toronto GM Ross Atkins, I might very well get Angels GM Perry Minasian on the horn and ask if he would consider dealing Shohei Ohtani and Jo Adell for Vladimir Guerrero Jr.

Far-fetched? Assuming Minasian picked up the phone, not necessarily. Here is why the Angels might agree to the trade:

First and foremost, it seems unlikely that the Anaheim-based club will be able to re-sign Ohtani this winter, which makes trading him a good idea. That said, while the yield from a deadline deal would provide more bang for the buck than draft-pick compensation, it’s not as though a Juan Soto-like package is in the offing. Not for a player about to become a free agent. For that reason, acquiring a 24-year-old All-Star who could immediately replace Ohtani in the middle of the lineup is safer than betting on prospects who may or make pan out. It would certainly be more palatable to the fanbase. Rather than jumpstart a rebuild, why not retool and continue to (or at least try to) contend?

Here is why Toronto might propose the trade:

The Blue Jays came into the season with high expectations, and this would be a win-now move that could propel them to the World Series. Not only would the lineup get stronger, the starting rotation would as well. Their postseason odds would go up meaningfully, and a one-two-punch of Ohtani and Kevin Gausman is something no team would want to face in October. The short-term gain is obvious.

As for the long-term, this would indeed be a risky move for the Jays. Even so, the potential upside goes beyond a short-term, flags-fly-forever World Series run. Toronto is a multi-cultural city that Ohtani could easily fall in love with over the coming months, greatly increasing the chances that he’d choose to call Ontario home for years to come. As for Vladdy Jr., his wRC+ has fallen in each of last three seasons, dropping from 166 to 132 to this year’s 121. As a first baseman, is his long-term value going to be worth what he’ll be paid in Canadian or American dollars? Adel would be the wild card in this deal. At worst, the Blue Jays would have a depth piece who is under team control for several more seasons as consolation should Ohtani sign elsewhere. At best, Adel becomes the player many once envisioned. It’s certainly possible. – David Laurila

Philadelphia Phillies
Angels Receive: SP Ranger Suárez, 2B Bryson Stott, SP Mick Abel (55 FV), CF Justin Crawford (45 FV), SP Griff McGarry (45 FV), 2B/SS William Bergolla (40+)
Phillies Receive: DH/SP Shohei Ohtani, 2B David Fletcher

The Phillies aren’t a favorite to land Ohtani, but after a couple of trades with the Angels at last year’s deadline that worked out well for both sides, maybe these two clubs can figure something out. After all, this is Dave Dombrowski we’re talking about. He pulled off the Miguel Cabrera trade. He pulled off the Chris Sale trade. He pulled off the Yoenis Cespedes trade – twice. Philadelphia might seem like a long shot for Ohtani, but no one is a long shot for Dombrowski.

The Phillies don’t have the big-name headliner the Angels are looking for – they aren’t selling low on Andrew Painter – but they can sweeten the deal with an extra top 100-type prospect. The Angels want two? The Phillies can give them three: Mick Abel, Griff McGarry, and Justin Crawford. That’s two starting pitchers who could join the rotation by 2024 or 2025 and a center fielder of the future. On top of that, if L.A. is nervous about a deal centered around young pitching, Philadelphia can throw in William Bergolla. He’s only 18, but the young shortstop has plate discipline and contact skills beyond his years.

The Angels could also use some big league talent, so the Phillies can entice them with Ranger Suárez and Bryson Stott. Suárez has a lower FIP than almost everyone in the Angels’ rotation (including Ohtani), and he’s under team control for two more years. Stott is another young, talented infielder to pair with Zach Neto, and he won’t reach free agency until 2029.

Finally, it’s time for the cherry on top. One of Dombrowski’s most valuable skills as an executive is convincing ownership to spend, so Philadelphia can definitely take on a bad contract. Anthony Rendon is a bit too much to ask, even for Dombrowski, but how about David Fletcher? You have to think Perry Minasian would love the chance to erase a mistake from early in his Angels’ tenure.

Altogether, Philadelphia is offering high-upside prospects, controllable big leaguers, and a bit of financial freedom. Other teams have the high-end prospects to beat this offer, but it’s the best the Phillies can do without throwing in the entire IronPigs roster, the rights to the Phanatic, and the clubhouse kitchen sink. It’s not Jackson Holliday, but it’s a whole lot better than a compensatory pick. – Leo Morgenstern

San Francisco Giants
Angels Receive: INF Casey Schmitt, SP Kyle Harrison (55 FV), 1B Victor Bericoto (40 FV)
Giants Receive: DH/SP Shohei Ohtani

If I’m the Giants, I’m still reeling from 2021’s early playoff exit after a 107-win season, 2022’s utterly underwhelming swoon, and this past offseason’s Aaron Judge and Carlos Correa near-misses. Given recent history, the front office must be especially hungry to make a deep postseason run, and with the Judge and Correa budget largely unspent, they might also be ready to open up the checkbook for Ohtani this winter. But why wait?

To get the Angels interested, let’s start with Kyle Harrison. The left-hander breezed through the lower minors and debuted with Triple-A Sacramento this spring at the age of 21, which is more than six years younger than the average pitcher at that level. He’s experienced some growing pains this year in the hitter-friendly Pacific Coast League, but it’s really the first resistance he’s encountered in his young career. The Angels are already short on arms before dealing Ohtani, so a high-ceiling, near-ready pitching prospect could be a welcome centerpiece, as much as it would pain the Giants.

It’s too bad catching isn’t a big need for the Angels. The Giants seem inclined to hang on to switch-hitting rookie catcher Patrick Bailey, but Joey Bart or Blake Sabol could have been of interest if it weren’t for Matt Thaiss and Logan O’Hoppe.

Where the Giants can address another need is in the infield. There isn’t much in the way of infield depth behind 22-year-old Zach Neto. The Giants, meanwhile, are getting career-best years (or close to it) from Thairo Estrada, Wilmer Flores, LaMonte Wade Jr., and J.D. Davis, and have all but Davis under team control through at least 2025. Casey Schmitt – a versatile defender with some pop who debuted at the age of 24 in May – fits this deal well.

Power-hitting 21-year-old first baseman/corner outfielder Victor Bericoto, who just got the call to Double-A Richmond, rounds out the deal, giving the Angels another player with pretty clear potential to make a big league impact.

Three top-25 prospects is a scary haul to give up for two months of any player, especially with Harrison involved. But offer much less and Farhan Zaidi can expect to be outbid. If they’re able to keep Ohtani in San Francisco long-term, the cost to get him in the door will be soon forgotten. – Chris Gilligan

Arizona Diamondbacks
Angels Receive: SS Geraldo Perdomo, CF Druw Jones (50 FV)
Diamondbacks Receive: DH/SP Shohei Ohtani

I was assigned Kim Ng of the Marlins in the Effectively Wild version of this exercise. (It went very badly, thanks for asking.) So I called shotgun on Arizona for the reboot before the podcast went live. I figured the Diamondbacks were an ideal trade partner: They have needs at both DH and in the rotation, and their playoff fate is very much up in the air, so Ohtani could make as big a difference there as anywhere. The D-backs play in a park where Ohtani could put up truly hilarious offensive numbers, and they’re a fairly big-market team (even if they don’t always spend that way) with an up-and-coming core that could benefit from the additional shine. Plus, this would be a perfect time to cash in on Druw Jones, who’s one of the few prospects with enough star power for the Angels to sell to the public as an appropriate return. At the same time, he’s not too good to be untouchable from Arizona’s perspective. Jones is currently on the shelf with a hamstring injury, and questions are starting to pop up about whether he’ll reach the lofty ceiling that was projected for him out of the draft. Maybe he’ll straighten things out and get back on track, but the Diamondbacks could opt to move him rather than risk him losing “half the return of a blockbuster trade” value.

Then I listened to the podcast and Ginny Searle, playing Diamondbacks GM Mike Hazen, nailed it. The final offer: Jones, Brandon Pfaadt, Drey Jameson, and Yu-Min Lin. I think that’s the perfect pitch, from Arizona’s perspective, and sure enough it won the whole thing. Now I not only have to land Ohtani for my beloved Snakes, I have to do it through different means.

So I’m going to start with Jones and add Geraldo Perdomo. You want pizzazz? How about one of the biggest stars in the minor leagues, the no. 2 overall pick a year ago? And on top of that, how about a 23-year-old shortstop who’s under team control through 2027, has a .389 OBP, and made the All-Star team this very year? If Ohtani is A-Rod, this is your Alfonso Soriano. Plus, it bears repeating, Druw Jones. Does that leave a gaping hole in my own infield? Yes. But if I have Ohtani I can figure it out later. – Michael Baumann

New York Yankees
Angels Receive: INF Oswald Peraza, SP Clarke Schmidt, OF Jasson Domínguez (50 FV), RP Chase Hampton (35+ FV)
Yankees Receive: DH/SP Shohei Ohtani

The Yankees haven’t shown nearly as much faith in Oswald Peraza as they have in Anthony Volpe, often passing over the former for veterans. Why is anyone’s guess, but Peraza would be extremely appealing to the Angels. His burgeoning 60-grade defense could slot in nicely next to Zach Neto up the middle for years to come. He’s no slouch with the bat, either: In 645 Triple-A plate appearances, he’s slashed .260/.337/.463 for a 106 wRC+, in line with his 108 mark in 118 major league PAs thus far.

High-floor, big league-ready talent? Check. Near-ready high-ceiling prospect? Jasson Domínguez fits the bill. The switch-hitting outfielder, already in Double-A at just 20 years old, has tremendous pop and speed despite some swing-and-miss to his game. If he doesn’t stick in center, it could spell trouble for his overall value. But the upside is power rarely seen at a premium up-the-middle spot, and Domínguez’s physicality just might be what it takes to unseat Mike Trout in center as the latter begins to decline defensively.

Another high-ceiling play is right-hander Chase Hampton, who we had as the Yankees’ 33rd-ranked prospect coming into this season after glimpsing a velo increase and a new cutter/slider in spring training. He’s taken his new tools and run with them, earning a promotion to Double-A after his first 47 pro innings came with a 40.5% strikeout rate in High-A.

Rounding out the deal is Clarke Schmidt. After posting a 6.00 ERA through his first 10 starts this year, the former first-rounder has refined his new cutter and come into his own; over his last 10 starts, he’s pitched to an even 3.00 ERA. While his FIP hasn’t changed much, the recent success is due to a newfound ability to limit hard contact: his barrel rate has shrunk 3.8 percentage points and his hard-hit rate has dropped 6.5. The cutter is especially improved — it’s averaging 1.2 extra inches of cut and 1.3 of drop since his 10th start.

If the Yankees make the out-of-favor Peraza the headliner, they could easily shift DJ LeMahieu over to third, where for the time being, he could approximate the youngster’s value. Ohtani, meanwhile, could slot right into Schmidt’s spot, and they could even go to a six-man rotation — as the Angels have — upon Nestor Cortes‘ return. As for Ohtani’s spot in the lineup, Giancarlo Stanton will have to spend more time in right field in order to free up the DH spot. But Big G hasn’t been a huge negative in the field; on a per-inning basis, he’s placed 341st out of 444 fielders with at least 100 innings under their belts in fielding run value. Plus, since joining the Yankees, he’s hit six points of wRC+ better when he’s been in the field. This deal — and its ripple effects — should ensure the Bombers another playoff spot. – Alex Eisert

Cincinnati Reds
Angels Receive: SP Brandon Williamson, SP Lyon Richardson (45+ FV), 2B Edwin Arroyo (45 FV), 1B Christian Encarnacion-Strand (45 FV)
Reds Receive: DH/SP Shohei Ohtani

What would it take for the Reds to make a play for Shohei Ohtani? When Effectively Wild played the Ohtani trade game last week, that was the question I tried to answer, assuming the role of Nick Krall to Ben’s Perry Minasian.

My proposal, which ultimately didn’t win out, was Christian Encarnacion-Strand, Edwin Arroyo, Brandon Williamson, and Lyon Richardson for Ohtani. Benasian turned it down, but I wanted to take another crack at making an argument for my offer.

I think this type of offer is realistically the best the Reds would do in this situation. It would be absolutely shocking to see Elly De La Cruz or Matt McLain move in a trade, so I can’t just throw one of them in to land Ohtani. Whether it’s justified or not, the Reds simply aren’t going to spend much money under the current ownership regime, so there’s no chance of Ohtani being extended. They’re also not going to trade away too much talent that they’ll have to replace later.

Encarnacion-Strand is still looking for a final defensive home, but the power is real and while ZiPS isn’t quite sold on him overall, especially as a starting third baseman, it sees him as having some .500 slugging percentage seasons in the majors. He’s also in the big leagues, and even if he turns out not to be the highest upside offensive player offered for Ohtani, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s the safest bat we would see in an offer. I think this is important to the Angels; whether or not Ohtani’s gone for good, I don’t think this is a team with the stomach for a full rebuild. Williamson and Richardson fit along these lines. Neither has a super high ceiling, but both have a pretty high floor, as well as the ability to contribute quickly to a retooled Angels team.

Arroyo, on the other hand, does have a decent ceiling and was on our preseason Top 100, though his FV has slipped since then. His inclusion ensures the Angels get significant value for an Ohtani rental. The team is very short on middle infield prospects now that Zach Neto has graduated from eligibility, and there’s a long-term hole that Arroyo could fill here.

Is it enough? I’m not sure, but either way, I’m not going to try to do a bad Nick Krall impression again anytime soon. – Dan Szymborski

Seattle Mariners
Angels Receive: SP Bryce Miller, SP Emerson Hancock (45 FV), CF Jonatan Clase (45 FV), 2B Michael Arroyo (40+ FV)
Mariners Receive: DH/SP Shohei Ohtani

The Mariners will almost certainly be in the running to sign Ohtani this offseason once he hits free agency. The chants of “Come to Seattle” that rained down during the All-Star game made the fans’ hopes quite clear, and the Mariners would be remiss if they didn’t make a competitive offer for the generational talent this winter. But what about the 2023 season? The M’s have hovered around .500 for nearly the entire year, never creeping more than three games over that mark or falling more than five games below it. That has put them on the AL playoff bubble, though the strength of their pitching staff indicates they’ve underperformed a bit. Pushing all their chips in for a remote shot at a repeat postseason appearance would be a pretty big risk, though for Ohtani, it might be worth it.

The Mariners send: RHP Bryce Miller, RHP Emerson Hancock, CF Jonatan Clase, 2B Michael Arroyo.

Any trade package from the Mariners needs to start with one of their young starting pitchers. The Angels have struggled to develop impact talent on the mound and the Mariners are swimming in young pitchers with plenty of team control. Logan Gilbert and George Kirby are probably off the table, so the M’s offer would be centered around one of Bryce Miller or Bryan Woo. I like Woo a little better than Miller because his secondary pitches seem a little more developed, but Miller has the best graded pitch between the two of them in his fastball.

Emerson Hancock has been a little inconsistent at Double-A Arkansas this year, but he’s a nearly big league-ready starter with a deep repertoire and enough prospect shine to be a nice complement to Miller. He’d be ready to contribute to the Angels rotation as soon as September. Clase has the big athletic tools that the Angels have so often coveted in prospects and he had a phenomenal start to the season in High-A Everett, posting a 197 wRC+ in 21 games there. He’s come back down to earth after getting promoted to Double-A, though his combination of power and speed should be enticing for the Angels.

Finally, with Cole Young looking like he’s on the fast track through the Mariners system and Colt Emerson and Tai Peete getting drafted this year, it seems like Michael Arroyo is getting buried on Seattle’s middle infield depth chart. That shouldn’t affect the way the Angels value him, and he has the potential to become the second-best prospect in this deal, though he’s still a little raw around the edges. He’s currently posting a 116 wRC+ as an 18-year-old at Single-A Modesto. – Jake Mailhot





51 Comments
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RedsManRickMember since 2020
3 years ago

Dan, do you think including India instead of CES would up the perceived value?

TribeToTheEndMember since 2016
3 years ago

Some of these offers seem very heavy – if I’m the Angels and get that Dodgers offer I’m accepting immediately, even after the Giolito trade.

Last edited 3 years ago by TribeToTheEnd
sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  TribeToTheEnd

That Dodgers deal is something like the 5th best offer. Using those FV grades, yeah, it’s a haul. But Cartaya and Busch are overrated, and have been for a while.

TribeToTheEndMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Fair, mostly chose that one because it was first chronologically and I was shocked when I read it. There are multiple others I think are easy yes’es for the Angels.

johndarc
3 years ago
Reply to  TribeToTheEnd

But Arte Moreno is an idiot so he’d take a worse deal if it was from somebody not the Dodgers. This guy nixed the Joc Pederson trade because it took too long.

Anon21Member since 2018
3 years ago

I’m a little amused that the Braves, who could certainly use Ohtani since they have a terrible DH and a missing back half of the rotation, aren’t even considered. Their offers would either be like “12 bad prospects” or “1 star who is controlled at a huge bargain until 2030,” so I agree with the implicit conclusion that there’s no fit.

Last edited 3 years ago by Anon21
Dmjn53
3 years ago
Reply to  Anon21

the Braves also “need” Ohtani less than other contenders given that they’re the only team that’s essentially clinched their division and a 1st round bye already.

Anon21Member since 2018
3 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

Right, the main value is as a postseason boost. Which is presumably significant, but since the postseason is such a crapshoot anyway, all the more reason they wouldn’t be in on him.

Dmjn53
3 years ago
Reply to  Anon21

the postseason boost is not insignificant, but to your point it’s turning a $5 scratch off ticket into a $10

This could also go into a larger conversation about how the expanded playoff format disincentives already good teams from improving

Last edited 3 years ago by Dmjn53
HappyFunBallMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  Anon21

Yeah I dunno. Lining up Ohtani after Strider in that rotation really takes the pressure off of having to rely on Charlie Morton to still have it or Bryce Elder’s recent likeness to a large orange squash. It also makes their batting older nigh invulnerable.

Baseball still happens, but that would be ridiculous.

raregokusMember since 2022
3 years ago
Reply to  HappyFunBall

They also have Max Fried coming back soon.

JEdwardMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  Anon21

The Braves have a couple really good prospects, even if the farm as a whole is bad. Expect to see several more on top 100 lists next year.

Anon21Member since 2018
3 years ago
Reply to  JEdward

Yeah, I exaggerated for humorous effect. “Two decent prospects and ten bad ones” is probably more accurate.

wokegraphs
3 years ago

I think Ohtani gets a bit overrated on the pitching side. He’s put up a similar season to (has a better ERA than and a worse FIP than) Mitch Keller but Keller goes every 5 days and doesn’t require a 6 man rotation. Takes like [Gausman and] Ohtani “something no team would want to face in the playoffs” just seem hyperbolic if you swap in Keller. This is no commentary on the bat. It’s a top 2 bat in the league.

Rex Manning DayMember since 2022
3 years ago
Reply to  wokegraphs

Sure, but Ohtani’s track record before this season is just a bit better than Keller’s. Since 2021, Ohtani has the 3rd best K/9 (Keller’s #53), 8th best ERA (Keller’s #75), 12th best FIP (Keller’s #49), and 11th best WAR (Keller’s #55, with a bit more than 1/2 Ohtani’s mark) in the league. Heck, Ohtani’s even pitched more innings than Keller in that timeframe.

Put another way, since 2021:
Ohtani: 70 starts, 408 IP, 11.54 K/9, 2.98 ERA, 3.27 FIP, 10.3 WAR
Scherzer: 71 starts, 425 IP, 11.07 K/9, 2.81 ERA, 3.28 FIP, 10.5 WAR

Keller’s having a perfectly normal season, while Ohtani is having a down year from Basically Max Scherzer levels. So I don’t think it’s entirely unreasonable to consider the latter a significantly more imposing addition to the top of a rotation.

As for the 6-man rotation thing, Keller’s only started 2 more games than Ohtani this year, and pitched only 17 more innings. Last year, Keller started 1 more game but pitched fewer innings, while in 2021, Ohtani pitched 30 more innings in the same number of starts. Ohtani might not rack up workhorse-level innings, but if anything, pitchers like Keller just demonstrate how Ohtani’s workload isn’t all that different than guys who “go every 5 days.”

wokegraphs
3 years ago

Fair response. Just commenting that the acquiring team is only getting Ohtani as he’s pitching this year and only for a few months. They’re getting the bat, too, though! And, as you’ve noted, he *has* pitched better in the past so maybe they’ll get some of that, too.

Rex Manning DayMember since 2022
3 years ago
Reply to  wokegraphs

Yeah fair. Trading for Down-Year-Scherzer is nice, but even that should probably take a backseat to trading for Nearly-2022-Judge.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago

I think the reason why this is impossible to figure out is that the Angels have to receive so much more than any team is willing to give up to make it worth the PR hit. This is a case where the public view of this deal is going to be radically different than the baseball implications of it.

So I don’t think some of these packages would ever get proposed. But if I am the Angels in this scenario, I am telling everyone but the Rays, Phillies, and Rangers to go home. Those are realistically more than any team would offer–I think the Rangers would do this deal with Luisangel Acuna in place of Carter–but I think I could get the Rays to throw in more depth if they’re willing to part with Bradley. Bradley, Carter, and Abel are the best players here, and these orgs have a lot of other guys they can include (and in two proposals, did include).

rickdugo3000
3 years ago

Red Sox? Verdugo + Yorke (50fv) + Bleis (55fv) + other shit?

mike sixelMember since 2016
3 years ago

We’re just assuming MN is too lame to even participate in a fake trade….sigh.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  mike sixel

The Twins are in a weird place because they have three guys who can pitch in the playoffs (maybe 4 if they think Maeda is back, which I’m a little skeptical of) and a whole bunch of people who should be DHing that are blocked by Buxton’s presence there. Unfortunately, nobody is trading a good defensive second baseman so they can move Julien to a place where he’ll do less damage defensively (he’s obviously not coming out of the lineup). Maybe they could trade for Candelario or something.

mike sixelMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Lewis will eventually be back at 3B, and Julien is the 2B long term, even if it hurts to watch him out there at times. Buxton is clearly the issue here, as Lee should be the 3B or 2B going forward, and Julien the DH……A lot of 24 and beyond is confusing if Lewis doesn’t move to the OF and Buxton can only DH…..

OddBall Herrera
3 years ago
Reply to  mike sixel

Why trade the farm for an opportunity to be swept out or the playoffs? It’s the Minnesota tradition after all (lifelong Twins fan saying it)

Last edited 3 years ago by OddBall Herrera
mike sixelMember since 2016
3 years ago

It’s a fake trade idea…..nothing more or less. I’m not suggesting doing anything here, just as it is very unlikely any of the other teams would do these deals. It’s a thought exercise.

Mean Mr. Mustard
3 years ago

Hey, you never know. 1987 and 1991 weren’t….oh, they were that long ago.

OddBall Herrera
3 years ago

Haha, yeah. Every time I think about MN sports I think “Well at least I have memories of the Twins winning it all when I was a kid”

And then sadly it occurs to me how long ago “when I was a kid” has become

achidesterMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  mike sixel

they were part of the exercise on the podcast. The offer was Brooks Lee, Alex Kiriloff and “pick 10 prospects outside of Minnesota’s org top 30”. Ben Clemens as Perry Minasian (rightfully) acknowledged that he needs more top-end talent to sell to his boss and the public, even if Lee + those 10 prospects would represent a huge overhaul of a bad farm system.

surfdoc37
3 years ago

Don’t know about baselining off of the Scherzer/Turner deal when most agree the Dodgers made out like bandits in that one.

HappyFunBallMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  surfdoc37

Sure, Ruiz and Gray have underwhelmed to date but that doesn’t invalidate their value at the time of the deal. Also, there’s still years and years for them to improve, while Max and Trea are no longer on the LAD roster.

johndarc
3 years ago
Reply to  HappyFunBall

Yeah it was WSH getting rid of guys who 100% aren’t part of the next good Nationals team for guys who might be.Even if it doesn’t work out, you take that chance rather than get nothing for them.

Spitball McPhee
3 years ago

The only trades I would consider as the Angels would be the Jays and Phillies.

OddBall Herrera
3 years ago

If everyone is offering what is proposed here, the Giants get laughed out of the room. Not even close to the same level as the other teams.

I also don’t think AZ’s deal would get it done. Injury risk and god awful K rate…as a GM I would be afraid of Jones as a centerpiece, the red flags are so glaring, that is the kind of move that gets you fired if it doesn’t work

Love the ballsy move from Toronto. I would do that in a second if I were either team

Last edited 3 years ago by OddBall Herrera
johndarc
3 years ago

Man, this site is really milking the “But what if Ohtani trade?” content this week, first with Effectively Wild doing the fake voice mails and now this. I mean, I get it, you need content for the content mill, and it’s fun, if ultimately meaningless now that the Angels are going for it.

achidesterMember since 2020
3 years ago

the EW trade pod was fantastic, one of my all-time favorites from them.

It’s a flawed comparison to Ohtani, but IMO Erik Karlsson represents a similarly-difficult player to trade for the NHL’s Sharks. He’s the highest-paid defenseman in the league, at 33 with a long injury history, and has 4 years left. He’s coming off an incredible season for an awful team. There’s a ton of risk to acquire him, and you have to offer quite a bit to convince the Sharks to sell.

steveo
3 years ago

Dodgers package might be the worst here. Cartaya has serious bust potential and hasn’t hit in AA. Busch is a DH who is old and has no track record of elite hitting outside of his second season in AAA. Stone looks like he might be a reliever. While someone like the Yankees are giving up their top 3 prospects in addition to a mid to back end starter with 4.5 years of control.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  steveo

Here’s how I would rank them:
1) Phillies (I’m pretty sure this is #1, this package is insane)
2) Rangers (mostly because I am high on Carter, I don’t love any of those other guys a lot but the depth is very nice)
3) Rays (Bradley is awesome and I believe in Manzardo, but I would need more depth to top the Rangers and a lot more to top the Philies)

And then there’s a pretty big gap…

4) Mariners (this is almost entirely due to Bryce Miller, the others are fine)
5) Yankees (similar package to the Mariners, with Schmidt instead of Miller. Miller is better, but Dominguez is more intriguing than anyone else the Mariners are offering)
6) Orioles (I like Ortiz and Cowser; Hall’s a reliever but could be a good one. But the M’s and Yankees packages have a better headliner and better depth)
7) Blue Jays (this one is not really like the others, but would also be the most defensible from a PR perspective)
8) Dodgers (you could put them higher because the depth is nice, but the guy I’m most excited about is Nick Frasso and he’s pitching three innings at a time in AA so there’s no headliner here)

And then there’s a pretty big gap…
9) D-Backs (Perdomo is not going to keep hitting like this and Druw Jones seems permanently hurt)
10) Giants (you have to really believe in Harrison, and I’ve been skeptical of his strike throwing for a while)
11) Reds (I think you could put them ahead of the D-Backs but those pitchers look like relievers to me and Arroyo’s hitting is down)

steveo
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

This is fair, but tbh I’m down on the Phillies’ guys. They’re highly touted, but not sure McGarry or Abel will ever throw enough strikes to be more than a #4 or #5 or a reliever. Those guys basically have zero track record of throwing enough strikes in the minors. Crawford I like, but he’s running an astronomical groundball rate, that I’m not sure he can correct. Seems like a major problem. Those groundballs get turned into outs at the MLB level. I do like Suarez and Stott though. It’s a lot of highly touted guys though, which is something I guess.

On the Rangers – I’m with you. I think Carter is going to be a star. Like Nimmo with better defense. Rays – Manzardo is what he is. He needs to hit a ton to be worth anything. Which he has up until he got to AAA. Jury is obviously still out. This is my rank:

1) Phillies – sheer number of guys, I don’t think they’re dealing the best prospect or anything
2) Rangers – Same reason you listed
3) Yankees – Dominguez, Peraza, and Hampton is a really nice package alone, probably 3 top 100 guys – then throw in a mid rotation to back end guy like Schmidt for 4.5 years and it’s a great package

Decent sized gap
4) Mariners – I like Miller a lot but the rest isn’t much more than depth
5) Rays – Bradley and Manzardo is solid, but Manzardo is a 1B who needs to hit.
6) Orioles – I like Cowser but lower on Ortiz

Decent Gap
The rest. I’m lower on a lot of the guys listed and I don’t think there’s anything too substantial. Vlad is overrated. Dodgers’ guys have some value but are grossly overrated I think.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  steveo

Stott’s a solid regular, which really elevates the Phils’ package for me.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago

So is Suarez.

wokegraphs
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I just want Pittsburgh to float Keller + Bednar for (injured) Painter and a few OF spects. Maybe they’d do it now that Ohtani is off the table.

steveo
3 years ago
Reply to  wokegraphs

Not sure why they’d trade for a guy who just had TJS and hasn’t pitched all year. He’ll be out all of next year.. They could just trade for someone healthy?

wokegraphs
3 years ago
Reply to  steveo

Because the injury is the only way the best pitching prospect in baseball gets traded but I could go either way on it.

Jasper FranciscoMember since 2017
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Agree with your top three. That Phillies offer is spicy! But regarding the TB offer, if I were the Angels, I’d prefer for a separate deal for Estévez.

Uncle SpikeMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  steveo

I think that’s a little harsh. I agree that most of the prospect proposed (Cartaya, Busch, and Stone) should have their FV downgraded but Frasso and Deluca should probably be rounded up. I’ve never understood the Busch grade. To me, he looks like an average offensive player with no defensive home. There’s not really a market for an average hitting DH. He’s a 40+ for me. I would grade the others as follows: Cartaya: 50, Stone: 45+, Frasso: 45+, Deluca: 45. All that being said, although there’s not a whole lot of star power, that’s some good depth.

Fredchuckdave
3 years ago

So we get this clearly irrelevant article but no article for the White Sox Angels trade?

treebeardedMember since 2019
3 years ago

I’m just here for the Royal Tenenbaums reference.

Jasper FranciscoMember since 2017
3 years ago
Reply to  treebearded

Hell of a damn comment. Wish it were mine.

treebeardedMember since 2019
3 years ago

I scanned the comments before posting and was surprised no one had mentioned it yet!

Curacao LL
3 years ago

The taxes situation probably takes Toronto off the table for any long term deal over $200MM.
Ohtani would be a rental only.

JEdwardMember since 2016
3 years ago

Wish there’d been a Braves one. Just so I could imagine Acuña and Ohtani back to back.

kid
3 years ago
Reply to  JEdward

We can dream on a lineup where Ozzie Albies – who is on-pace for 97 runs, 39 HR and 117 RBI – is generally considered to be the 6th best hitter on the team.