Some Musings on Letting Lester Hit

Last night, the Red Sox won 3-1, and are headed back to Boston with two shots to win one game. They are now the heavy favorites to end the season as the World Series champs, thanks in large part to Jon Lester outdueling Adam Wainwright for the second time in this series. The Wainwright/Lester match-ups, on paper, favored St. Louis, but Boston was able to beat the Cardinals best pitcher because Jon Lester threw two brilliant outings in this series. But, for some people, the thing that they’ll remember most about last night’s game isn’t Jon Lester’s pitching, but instead, Jon Lester’s hitting.

Or, at least, Jon Lester being sent to the batter’s box with a bat in his hand; I don’t know that you can call what he does up there “hitting”. In his career, including the postseason, Jon Lester — career AL pitcher — has walked up to the plate 43 times, and in those 43 opportunities, he has made 43 outs. Back in 2009, he drew a walk, the only time he’s ever reached base successfully, but he made up for it in 2012 by hitting into a double play, bringing his totals of PAs and outs back into equalization. 21 of his 43 plate appearances have ended with a strikeout. He is, maybe, the closest thing baseball has to an automatic out.

And yet, with runners at second and third, in the 7th inning of a one run game, Jon Lester was allowed to hit. With Mike Napoli sitting on the bench. With Adam Wainwright tiring on the mound. The Red Sox had a chance to turn a close game into a pretty sure victory, but passed on the opportunity for a big inning in favor of keeping Lester in the game for a couple more innings. And that decision is essentially a microcosm of how baseball is managed.

I don’t want this post to be too mathy, because this decision wasn’t really based on running the probabilities. But, briefly, we can lay out what the math says about these trade-offs, so we can understand what the Red Sox were giving up by not letting Napoli pinch-hit.

From last night’s play log, we can see that the run expectancy when Lester came to the plate was 1.34 runs. That would be what you’d expect with a Major League hitter at the plate, anyway. With Lester hitting, that number is much lower. It’s not zero, because if he strikes out or otherwise avoids a double play, Jacoby Ellsbury would hit with runners still in scoring position, and even if Lester can’t hit, there’s always some chance of an error or something wacky happening that allows him to reach base through an unexpected turn of events.

We know that the RE of Ellsbury hitting after Lester made the out was 0.57 runs, and since the out wasn’t a guaranteed outcome, the actual RE of having Lester hit in that situation would be higher than that. Maybe it’s even as high as 1.00, once you account for the fact that maybe he could have gotten down a squeeze bunt or something; he does have 5 sac bunts in his career. But, again, we’re talking about a guy who has never gotten a hit in the big leagues, and most of his at-bats end with a strikeout or a groundout. The odds of a positive event occurring with Lester at the plate were very, very low.

Alternatively, Mike Napoli is a pretty terrific hitter. Even with the pinch-hitting penalty, you’d expect him to perform above the level of an average hitter in that situation, so the run expectancy with Napoli hitting is probably in the range of 1.40 to 1.50 runs, depending on how much of a penalty you want to add for Napoli having sat on the bench up to that point. The actual numbers aren’t that important, as any reasonable calculation is going to result in a massive difference in expected offense with Napoli hitting instead of Lester.

You Aren't a FanGraphs Member
It looks like you aren't yet a FanGraphs Member (or aren't logged in). We aren't mad, just disappointed. We get it. You want to read this article. But before we let you get back to it, we'd like to point out a few of the good reasons why you should become a Member. 1. Ad Free viewing! We won't bug you with this ad, or any other. 2. Unlimited articles! Non-Members only get to read 10 free articles a month. Members never get cut off. 3. Dark mode and Classic mode! 4. Custom player page dashboards! Choose the player cards you want, in the order you want them. 5. One-click data exports! Export our projections and leaderboards for your personal projects. 6. Remove the photos on the home page! (Honestly, this doesn't sound so great to us, but some people wanted it, and we like to give our Members what they want.) 7. Even more Steamer projections! We have handedness, percentile, and context neutral projections available for Members only. 8. Get FanGraphs Walk-Off, a customized year end review! Find out exactly how you used FanGraphs this year, and how that compares to other Members. Don't be a victim of FOMO. 9. A weekly mailbag column, exclusively for Members. 10. Help support FanGraphs and our entire staff! Our Members provide us with critical resources to improve the site and deliver new features! We hope you'll consider a Membership today, for yourself or as a gift! And we realize this has been an awfully long sales pitch, so we've also removed all the other ads in this article. We didn't want to overdo it. In case you didn't read all that, here's the short version. Membership includes:
✓Ad-free browsing
✓Unlimited FanGraphs & RotoGraphs articles
✓Historical & platoon projections
✓Leaderboard & player-page stat heatmaps
✓One-click data exports
✓Customizable player-page dashboards
✓Dark & Classic site modes
✓Weekly Members-only mailbag
✓FanGraphs Walk-Off, your year in review
✓Optional homepage photo removal
✓Gift articles to non-Members
✓Full postseason coverage

Just for sake of argument, let’s assume that there’s a 0.4 run difference between having Napoli hit and having Ellsbury hit. How much worse would you think the relievers being asked to get the next six outs would have to be from Lester just to even that decision out?

Let’s use some names to make this more clear. Over his career, Clayton Kershaw has allowed 2.82 runs per nine innings pitched. He’s the best starting pitcher in baseball, and on average, he’s allowed 0.63 runs for every six outs he’s gotten. Let’s say the Red Sox would have given the ball to Brandon Workman and asked him to get two innings, because they don’t trust Craig Breslow right now and because Junichi Tazawa died in between innings or something. And we’re going to ignore the fact that Workman’s peripherals were actually decent, and that he worked as a starter during the regular season which would underrate his performance as a reliever, so we’ll use his 4.97 RA per 9 as the basis for his expected performance.

With those poor assumptions about Brandon Workman’s abilities skewing his value downwards, he would be expected to allow 1.10 runs per six outs. The difference between Workman’s regular season RA9 and Kershaw’s career RA9 is 0.47 runs per six outs, or almost exactly the same difference as we would estimate the gap was in letting Lester hit versus having Napoli hit.

In other words, to justify the decision from an empirical standpoint, you’d have to believe that Lester was capable of throwing the next two innings like the best starter alive — and ignore the fact that he was going through the order a third time — and that Farrell would turn to a roughly replacement level reliever to get six outs without going to Tazawa or Uehara if Workman started struggling.

These are not reasonable assumptions. Lester isn’t Kershaw, and Workman isn’t a true talent 5.00 RA9 guy, especially coming out of the bullpen. And Farrell wouldn’t turn to Workman for six outs without going to Tazawa or Ueahara, both of whom are pretty excellent relievers and would immediately skew the results back towards pinch hitting. But these are the assumptions we’d have to make in order to make this a math-neutral decision.

So, yeah, this wasn’t about playing the probabilities. This was part of the manifestation of baseball’s emphasis — really, this happens in every sport — on lead preservation. This decision is not that much different than the way that the evolution of the closer has taken place over the last 30 years.

There’s little question that a relief ace can make a larger impact by coming in to a tie game, where the game could be lost on one swing, than he could in getting three outs to protect a three run lead. Nearly any reliever in baseball can usually protect a three run lead with one inning to go. Yet, because that setting is defined as a “save situation”, teams employ their best relievers to protect leads that would almost always stand up anyways. It’s not a decision that works from a probabilistic model, but instead, one that is built around avoiding as many memorable collapses as possible.

It’s risk aversion, essentially. There was absolutely a risk involved in lifting Lester after having just thrown 69 pitches and replacing him with a series of less trusted right-handed relievers. If Napoli had failed to produce, the Sox would have likely have had to throw a series of right-handers at a line-up that is much better against right-handed pitching — since Breslow has pitched himself out of the Circle of Trust — and would have set up Matt Adams to be able to get the platoon advantage when he pinch hit. Betting on Napoli comes with downside, especially because his most likely outcome at the plate is making an out and the move not producing any positive results.

But it shouldn’t be enough to just say that a move is “too risky” without weighing the offsetting benefit of taking that risk. Even if you think the cost of removing Lester and replacing him with relievers (seen to be inferior) is extremely high, the benefit of having Napoli hit with two men on base is also extremely high. Mediocre relievers protect three run leads at a higher rate than good starters protect one run leads. The value of adding on, in that situation, was remarkably high.

That isn’t how sports teams are managed when they have a late lead, however. In football, teams with the lead often still punt on 4th-and-short, when going for the first down would allow them to retain possession and run valuable time off the clock. They trust their defense to hold, even when the alternative would be to not have to trust their defense to begin with. In basketball, players protecting a late lead often will pass up a chance at a guaranteed two points for the right to dribble around for an extra second or two and then have to earn those free throws at the line, even though raising the scoring margin would make it much less likely that the opposing team could close the gap in the remaining time.

This isn’t a John Farrell is stupid thing. This is how sports teams operate when protecting a lead. It’s why we have the modern day closer, even though it not an optimal usage pattern for a team’s best relief pitcher.

From a probabilistic mentality, these decisions are kind of nuts. Increasing your lead is just as valuable, if not more valuable, than maximizing the skill of your defenders in protecting the lead, but that isn’t how teams operate. When they have a lead to protect, they get defensive, and cost/benefit analysis becomes simply a cost analysis, with the benefit of being aggressive in expanding a lead taking a back seat to maximizing run prevention.

I don’t know that we’re going to see changes to these mentalities any time soon, because in reality, these strategies work more often than they don’t. Jon Lester held the lead, and the Red Sox won, so besides the segment of seamheads who really enjoy discussing the theory of baseball, this isn’t even an issue to be discussed. Had Lester blown the lead, well, Farrell trusted his ace, and you can’t blame him for that, right?

I think this is one of those inefficiencies that we’re probably just going to have to accept as part of baseball, at least for this generation. Pinch hitting Napoli for Lester almost certainly would have increased the Red Sox chances of winning the game, but it’s the kind of move that simply isn’t part of the sport’s culture, or any sport’s culture, at this point in time.





Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.

120 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Mark Armour
12 years ago

Runners were on 2nd and 3rd when Lester batted, right?

Julian
12 years ago
Reply to  Mark Armour

Yes. At least practically eliminates the potential for a DP.

jesse
12 years ago

You nailed it on the risk aversion, but this isn’t just how teams are managed its how humans are hard wired to think about everything so I don’t think it will ever change until we get robot managers, and I for one and excited to see the first robot manager/ robot ump arguemnet.

Anon21Member since 2018
12 years ago
Reply to  jesse

If they’re perfectly rational, they would simply exchange data about the play and either the manager would be satisfied or the ump would immediately reverse the call. Not all that fun for the viewing audience.

Scott J Marcus
12 years ago
Reply to  Anon21

You’ve got to program in the best and worst characteristics of both, and then randomly have each adopt a persona. Angel Hernandez against Lou Pinella on one play, and then Jim Joyce against Terry Francona for the next. Mix it up a little!

Gabes
12 years ago
Reply to  Anon21

Obviously the robot umps will programmed with the personality of Bender from Futurama to facilitate this.

MGL
12 years ago
Reply to  jesse

You are right, but there are some small percentage of human beings who do not think like that (they are able to overcome that hard wiring OR they are not as hard wired as the rest of humanity). Those human beings can be employed by teams to advise managers. That has happened already and will continue to happen.

To say that this won’t happen because human beings are hard wired to think and behave like that (which they are in general sense) is like saying that nothing spectacular can be accomplished in science or medicine because the average human being is lazy and not that smart.

Patrick
12 years ago
Reply to  jesse

For what it’s worth I played against Lester in high school — and while he lived at 90-92 mph (which was ironically about how many scouts came to watch him) he also dropped bombs at the plate, and made many diving catches in centerfield. Dude is an athlete but hitting at the professional level is another beast.

I vividly remember Pat Gillick (then with the Mariners) in crocodile skin boots. Good times.

JP
12 years ago

How do you square the serious analysis going on in front offices with this kind of managing? Why has culture changed dramatically in one area, but not the other?

George
12 years ago
Reply to  JP

That’s likely because professional athletes, barring the rare Brandon McCarthy or Shane Battier, don’t usually respect analytics, and so they are much less likely to respect an analytics-proficient manager who wasn’t a former ballplayer. Many GMs and owners believe that the leadership aspect of coaching is much more significant than the decision making, and so they tend to hire former players that their teams respect. Even Daryl Morey, one of the pioneers of analytics in the NBA, has been quoted as preferring a head coach with great leadership skills over all else, and that’s even with NBA head coaches having a much more significant decision making impact on games than MLB managers.

Richie
12 years ago
Reply to  George

This especially applies in those rare situations where the workers are clearly more important than the boss. Whatever deeply felt prejudices they have, you just can’t go against those.

Matthew TobinMember since 2016
12 years ago
Reply to  George

I feel that is because they are uneducated on the issue and think they magic.

I bet if you explain BABIP to hitters, they would like it. It makes sense.
If you explained wOBA, hitters would agree a double is not twice as valuable a single and probably like it.
If you explain FIP to a Mariners pitcher, they would probably agree their terrible defense hurts them.
UZR isn’t perfect, but if you explained how it was calculated, players would understand it tries to reward skills.

The reason we like sabermetrics and statistics is because you understand them. You see how they are calculated and it begins to all come together and make sense. The “Ah, this is much better moment”. If you don’t understand something, you are likely to reject it.

Mr. X
12 years ago
Reply to  Matthew Tobin

I don’t think Jered Weaver would be too happy if you explained to him that his 2.77 ERA since 2011 is actually a 3.54 FIP. Some athletes could care less about advanced metrics, and they have that right.

MGL
12 years ago
Reply to  George

That is correct. But, that does not preclude an organization from hiring a manager who is an ex-player, a great leader, motivator and teacher, who is also open minded enough to want to able be able to learn from the analysts, and put that knowledge to work on the field.

It will take some work from a front office and the manager to figure out how to do that and how not to piss off the players, but it can and will be done. It will be a lot easier once the McCarthy’s are the ex-players who are in the manager pools.

DodgersKingsoftheGalaxy
12 years ago
Reply to  George

And everyone loves to go on about how that’s important, i want to see a guy who is big on analytics but whatever in the clubhouse

Will
12 years ago

What about factoring in the belief that Lester, with only 69 pitches, was the best option to face the middle of the order due up in the next inning? Also, what about Napoli’s propensity for striking out, especially against righties? And then there’s the issue of David Ortiz. If you keep Napoli in the game, you lose Ortiz’ next at bat. If you leave Ortiz in, you lose Napoli as a defensive replacement who won’t leave a hole in the middle of the order.

There are so many specific variables to consider, using the general math does the decision a disservice. Context is so important, and the failure to recognize that also creates a mentality with limitations.

George
12 years ago
Reply to  Dave Cameron

What pitcher, specifically, would have been the best option in the bottom of the 7th to face Holliday, Beltran, and Molina if it is not Lester?

B N
12 years ago
Reply to  Dave Cameron

Agreed. Leaving Lester in was a terrible move. I cringed. I hoped that they would pull him even in the middle of the at-bat. To be honest, the run expectancy of playoff games are lower than typical games.

Runners at 2B and 3B with one out is one of the best situations you can hope for. Boston does not have a bad bullpen. We can basically say that Lester had about a 0.050 chance of getting any scoring done in his at bat. Napoli (or even Carp) raises that to over 0.300. Easily worth more than half a run.

Lester went an extra 1.67 innings after staying in. Even if we assume the difference in ERA was 3 whole runs, that’s only 0.56 expected runs lost from benching him. By leaving Lester in, he basically said: “I expect your ERA to be 3 runs better than whoever I could put in for 2 innings.” It’s just crazy.

Will
12 years ago
Reply to  Dave Cameron

Lester being a very good starting pitcher who was throwing well and had a low pitch count is much more important than the hand with which he throws. Besides, Beltran and Holliday did much worse against lefties this year, and Lester was almost equally stingy to both sides.

Napoli’s K rate matters because not getting a run and losing Lester is very costly. Wainwright would not have been an ideal match-up for Napoli, so you can’t just gloss over the risk of the strikeout.

It’s very easy to understand Farrell’s decision if you think Napoli is a high probability K candidate, and you really like the way he was throwing. After all, you WILL win if you don’t give up another run. Farrell needed a bridge to get to his good relievers, and he determined that Lester was the best option. That’s not a decision that can be made with run expectancy tables.

Richie
12 years ago
Reply to  Will

I sympathize with your objections, but of course it’s a decision that can be made with run expectancy tables.

Will
12 years ago
Reply to  Will

And it can also be made by an informed observer who has more information than the RE tables. The only reason to rely on the RE tables is because you do not trust observation. That’s a fair position, but I want my manager to make decisions based on raw data.

Using absurdity to prove a point comes in handy here: Let’s assume Lester was a robot throwing 200mph who couldn’t hit a lick (and Ross was somehow able to catch him). Would you still PH because the RE tables say so? Or would you factor in your special knowledge about the quality of the pitcher? Well, you may disagree with his assessment, but that’s what Farrell did last night.

NS
12 years ago
Reply to  Will

“The only reason to rely on the RE tables is because you do not trust observation.”

You are just making this up. These two things are very obviously complementary; it’s a question of which one is weighted more heavily and why.

Are you going to share the secret knowledge of the “informed observer”? It seems like a term designed to conceal [a lack of] information rather than reveal it.

Andrew
12 years ago
Reply to  Will

Arguing that Win Expectancy does not consider context is an exercise in reduction to absurdity.

Anon21Member since 2018
12 years ago
Reply to  Will

“Lester being a very good starting pitcher who was throwing well and had a low pitch count is much more important than the hand with which he throws.”

Incorrect; starting pitching performance to any time in in a given game does not predict starting pitcher performance after that time.

Ruki Motomiya
12 years ago
Reply to  Will

Interested in an article on that, Anon21. I imagine it stops predicting it after a certain point (due to factors such as tiring), but not overall.

Win Expectancy that does not consider context is good to have, but you need to consider context when applying it to a game-by-game basis, due to the fact that the context is 100% certainly part of that game (The runners on 2nd and 3rd aren’t going to magically disappear!).

Izzy
12 years ago
Reply to  Dave Cameron

If Farrell was really concerned about taking Ortiz out of the game or Napoli’s strikeout rate, Carp was also on the bench.

Izzy
12 years ago
Reply to  Dave Cameron

Why not just let Carp hit? Then Napoli can come in for Ortiz later. Carp is a very bad fielder but he swung the bat terrifically this year.

Steven
12 years ago
Reply to  Will

He did factor in the belief that Lester was the best option (in fact he assumed he was the best option in all of baseball) and the fact that Napoli may strike out (only .4 runs higher than Lesteris incredibly low) and he still showed the need for a PH.

He did not factor in losing Napoli as a defensive replacement, fair, but I think that is minor compared to the benefits. Furthermore, he also did not factor in that Lester is probably not available for Game 7 now when he would of been able to throw 30ish pitches in relief.

In conclusion, it was really dumb to let Lester hit.

Mr Punch
12 years ago
Reply to  Steven

Of course, it’s true that Lester was the best option in all of baseball. He’s the best in October – better than Wainwright, better than the Cy Young winners. Hard to give that up, especially as Tazawa’s been shaky.

Lester wasn’t going to be used in Game 7 after 60+ pitches.

yf223
12 years ago
Reply to  Steven

Throwing 91 pitches instead of 69 is not going to make Lester unavailable for Game 7. Game 5 was Monday, Game 7 would be Thursday. That’s the same timeframe for Lackey coming in for an inning in Game 4. There’s no question Lester will still be available.

Jason B
12 years ago
Reply to  yf223

Absolutely right, Lester would be available. In game 7 it’s all hands on deck, do whatever you’re asked for as long/short a time as you’re asked to do it.

Best not to save him for game 8, in other words. Those very rarely happen.

payroll
12 years ago
Reply to  Will

“If you keep Napoli in the game, you lose Ortiz’ next at bat. If you leave Ortiz in, you lose Napoli as a defensive replacement who won’t leave a hole in the middle of the order.”

Seriously?

On your toes: when was the last game decided by a critial misplay by the 1b?

Now think when was the last time a game was won by a PHer?

As far as decisions go this should be an easy one.

Will
12 years ago
Reply to  payroll

Game 3 of the World Series was impacted by Ortiz’ inability to field a throw that Napoli probably would have handled. We aren’t talking about an experienced first baseman. Ortiz is a liability on the field, so having someone to replace him is not an insignificant consideration.

wily mo
12 years ago
Reply to  Will

that isn’t really true, if it’s the play i’m thinking of – carpenter? his foot was already on the bag anyway before ortiz failed to handle the throw

NS
12 years ago
Reply to  payroll

“On your toes: when was the last game decided by a critial misplay by the 1b?”

…Is there any Red Sox fan that *can’t* tell you about Bill Buckner?

This is not a serious response; I just found your specific challenge funny in this context.

Zen Madman
12 years ago
Reply to  NS

I thought that’s where he was going with it until I got to the end. Also, most of the games in this series have been heavily affected by defensive misplays.

Ruki Motomiya
12 years ago
Reply to  payroll

I know that it has both been brought up already AND is incredibly old, but Bill Buckner really needs to be mentioned (again), given the Red Sox and 1B defensive replacements and all.

Steven
12 years ago

Interesting how the two worst managerial moves of the series have come from the Farrell even though Matheny has been horrible.

Nate
12 years ago

RIP Tazawa.

nada
12 years ago

Because front office types aren’t making managerial decisions, ex-professional ballplayers are. And if the front office types start getting too much into the manager’s business, there are cultural problems because those two positions have historically been separate and non-overlapping (the “If I buy the groceries, I get to cook the dinner” argument in the NFL seems not to have permeated into MLB).

Why have they been separate historically? Perhaps because of scouting? I think in the NFL and NBA, for instance, it doesn’t take as much scouting to figure out who good players will be, because the physical demands are so obvious: you must be this big to play offensive tackle, you must be this tall to play center in the NBA, etc. And what’s more, every additional pound or inch typically grants you an advantage. Whereas MLB drafting and signing relies upon extensive video review of players to determine their mechanics and so forth. There’s not an exact cutoff in terms of height or weight for most positions, whereas there are quite severe limitations for the NFL (no 200 lb. offensive linemen nowadays, period). Just a theory.

nada
12 years ago
Reply to  nada

doh, that was supposed to be in response to JP’s comment above.

Richie
12 years ago
Reply to  nada

Baseball was anti-educational for the longest time. James wrote about this back in the 80s. That’s now changing, pretty rapidly matter of fact. But the cultural effects of all those decades are still in place.

Ruki Motomiya
12 years ago
Reply to  nada

I still wish that GMs and Managers could be the same person.

Jerry Jones
12 years ago
Reply to  Ruki Motomiya

ME TOO!!

Dan Jaffe
12 years ago

Although some of your assumptions were charitable to the let-Lester-hit side, one was not: Lester was much BETTER than Kershaw. Not that Lester is generally better than Kershaw, but that Lester-last-night was better than average-Kershaw. By almost all accounts, he was in a zone, pitching a phenomenal game—and his pitch count was only 69. My gut, non-mathematical sense was that bringing in Napoli at that point would certainly increase the RE, but the most likely outcome was that Napoli would have made an out (both because any batter is likely to make an out on almost any PA and because Napoli has not been having a great postseason). OTOH, taking out Lester would have carried far greater risks that a reliever would just blow the lead. Simply put, I’d rather have Lester pitch the 7th and maybe 8th, leading into Uehara, with a 1.57 run lead than take my chances on Tazawa (assuming he’s still alive) & possibly whomever might follow him before Uehara with a 2.40 run lead. I guess you can call that risk aversion.

I’d like to dig into the statistics more, because it wouldn’t be the first time that my gut instinct is off, but I was strongly rooting for Farrell to let Lester bat.

Catoblepas
12 years ago
Reply to  Dan Jaffe

I agree, in that I think Lester had pitched quite well up to that point, and that makes the decision closer. But (as MGL pointed out in his somewhat-more-mathy-and-also-angry blog post) aptitude the first two times through the order doesn’t actually correlate to pitching well the third time through. Past performance in a game is a rather poor predictor of future performance, which means that even though Lester is dealing, you can’t 100% assume he will continue to.

Brian
12 years ago
Reply to  Catoblepas

I agree, Catoblepas. MGL has done excellent work showing that a good pitcher pitching a good game (even a great pitcher pitching a great game) is a minor concern next to the major concern of facing the lineup the third time around.

But even observationally I’m not sure I would say Lester was Kershaw Plus – i.e., unhittable – last night. I personally didn’t think he was as sharp as he was in Game 1, and seemed to benefit from an unusual number of line drives right at people (including 2 bullets from Molina that were outs) and fluky plays (i.e., the shot up the middle from Robinson that happened to deflect right to Pedroia, the bad call that took a walk away from Carpenter, etc.). The Cards’ BABIP against Lester on the night was .176, which supports the notion that there was a little luck involved for Lester’s line. (And please don’t overreact to this comment – I still think he pitched great. I just don’t think he was anything better than Kershaw on an average day, and very likely worse.)

Side note: the Red Sox hit a staggering .474 last night on balls in play. Some of this was legit (ropes from Pedroia, Ross, and an out that Drew absolutely crushed), but there were a large number of dinkers and rollers in there too. In other words, I think Wainwright pitched better than his line indicates (just like Game 1) and Lester a tad worse, but Lester was obviously the better pitcher.

SKob
12 years ago
Reply to  Catoblepas

Even though I cringed watching Lester approach the plate in that situation, I’m amazed that people are really arguing there was a better choice. Can we please remember that Lester had faced the same team in game 1 and that he was legitimately 5-6 times through the order and STILL dominating! Thinking the Cards would find a way to hit him consistently after 5 at-bats each is ridiculous! Pointing to the mathematical analysis on run expectancy doesn’t matter when you are winning and need to hold the lead. Concern with scoring runs is secondary to preventing them when you are winning. Relief pitchers blow leads, the numbers do not always hold true, but you have a pitcher who has been able to get through 13+ innings giving up just 1 run – he is your best option to hold the lead! The overanalysis of a really simple decision is mind-boggling! While an article like this is interesting, the comments are truly concerning. I’m not even sure half of the commenters actually watch baseball outside of a live scoring update fantasy page! It’s just weird to think people have watched all these games and really think Lester should have been replaced there… because the Red Sox needed a 3 run homer to go up by 4 to win… obviously!

Charlie
12 years ago

Honestly, which move was worse: Batting SHANE ROBINSON second or letting Lester hit?

Both are bad. So bad.

payroll
12 years ago

“well, Farrell trusted his ace, and you can’t blame him for that, right?”

Right. Until post-game reporters start asking questions like this (Why did you let Lester hit?), especially when the team has won, this won’t change.

OTOH if he pulls his starter and the bullpen implodes, and they lose, there will be all sorts of questions asked.

NS
12 years ago
Reply to  payroll

“[he] trusted his ace, and you can’t blame him for that, right?”

Right!

– Grady Little

Joebrady
12 years ago

The problem is that you treating events as though they are straightlined.

For example, Papi has an OPS of .733 against lefties this year. Middlebrooks has a .782 against lefties this year. So next time they bring in a lefty, should we use MB as a PH?

If the model can’t factor in that WMB is 1-12 in the ALCS and WS, and that Papi is completely locked in, then the model is compromised. There absolutely has to be some accommodation to how a player is currently performing. Events which rely on human factors are not independent. I like to play poker. I’ve had periods when my focus is completely locked in. I have other periods where my focus varies. Over the long run, my expectancy is the same. On any given day, the variance is huge.

Charlie
12 years ago
Reply to  Joebrady

Very much in the same way we evaluate RBIs, runs, etc., OPS needs to be taken in context and how the specific OPS number of .782 came to be. LB/GB/FB splits, discipline peripherals, BBIP distance, etc (many more factors) need to be considered instead of simply using OPS to drive a decision like replacing Papi with WMB.

Variance in baseball is huge, but we attempt to limit the variance as much as possible. OPS doesn’t do that.

Jacks
12 years ago
Reply to  Charlie

Yes, that’s a big problem with the current state of SABR research … the statistical categories used to measure events are crazy blunt and imprecise. Take BABIP for instance. It doesn’t account for how hard the ball is hit, where it is hit, the quality of the pitcher or pitch etc. There’s a ton of contextual factors that are simply left out. It galls me when SABR guys don’t countenance the imprecision of their tools and the innate fallibility of their forecasting models.

Current popular public domain SABR categories are useful, but only up to a certain point. They need a ton of refinement … and I bet the private, heavily funded and closely guarded SABR research done by teams is light years ahead of what we see here on fangraphs etc.

NS
12 years ago
Reply to  Jacks

Tampa, for example, has been ahead of that curve for a few years now evaluating both hitters and pitchers by velocity off the bat among other things.

Charlie
12 years ago
Reply to  Jacks

Very true. We, as fans, have a general idea when we use tools like BABIP, spray charts, etc. But, much more to be done. It’s all very general.

Joebrady
12 years ago
Reply to  Jacks

Very few numbers in our lives are meant to be used in isolation. My next step after BABIP is to look at LD%, then K/W, o-swing, etc.

Justin
12 years ago
Reply to  Joebrady

“There absolutely has to be some accommodation to how a player is currently performing.”

“On any given day, the variance is huge.”

You’ve managed to contradict yourself in the same paragraph. How a player has been performing lately is subject to huge fluctuations thanks to the huge variance, which makes it a very poor predictor of future performance.

Ruki Motomiya
12 years ago
Reply to  Justin

It’s not a contradiction when taken in context with the rest of his comment: He is saying that when compared to the long wrong, there is a huge variance on any given day, and says that he feels some accomodation for current performance needs to be taken into descisions.

While I dunno how much I agree with that, the bits about focus are almost certainly true from a psychological standpoint, but it is pretty much impossible to measure the results.

Brandon
12 years ago
Reply to  Ruki Motomiya

It’s not impossible at all, actually. The research has been done. Tango did a study on this, and there’s no such thing as being “locked in”.

What does exist is “thinking you’re locked in because you’ve been hitting well recently”, what doesn’t exist is “you think you’re locked in because of how you’ve been hitting recently, so you will continue hitting well into the future”.

Luke
12 years ago
Reply to  Ruki Motomiya

Brandon, does Tango claim to prove that being “locked in” does not exist? I’m not sure how that could be proven. A more plausible claim would be, “we have not found any evidence that being ‘locked in’ exists.”

Brandon
12 years ago
Reply to  Ruki Motomiya

True, that would be the more scientific (and correct) way of phrasing.

I suppose the best thing to say is that being ‘locked in’ is possible, but we have no way of really telling if a pitcher is ‘locked in’ or if it’s just random variation, but most likely it’s just random variation.

Joebrady
12 years ago
Reply to  Justin

Then ask yourself, why do so many people suggest walking Papi every time up during the series? Why do slumping players get a day off to ‘clear their head’? Why would Workman, with a 4.97 and a 1.416 Whip, and a .751 OPSa, get into G6 ahead of Breslow, with a 1.81, a 1.123, and a .635?

Or when assessing stats, why do some statisticians use a 3/2/1 weighting over the past three years? They do so because the think the most recent year is the most relevant year. Why wouldn’t you use the most recent data?

And just from an experience basis, I’ve been in slumps, and I have been in hot streaks. There are times the ball looks like a golf ball, and times that it looks like a basketball.

And things like that often derive from form issues. I was in a slump because I wasn’t keeping my plant foot still enough. Sometimes a pitcher is going bad because he doesn’t have the right release point, or he is tipping pitches somehow.

In any case, I am still not pulling Lester in that situation. He is pitching right up to Uehara time, imho.

Norm
12 years ago
Reply to  Joebrady

I would think that if you’re sitting at the final table of the World Series of Poker that your focus would be there 100%.

Jason B
12 years ago
Reply to  Norm

One would think, but there have been plenty of “Oh I thought I had a spade! Oops I don’t have a flush.” or “I miscounted your stack/my stack, whoops!” or “Oh wait, I have T8 not 98, I guess I don’t have a straight.” type moments. Losing focus happens a lot, particularly in multi-day tournaments with 10-14 hour days.

Will
12 years ago

That’s exactly my point about context. The numbers tell you what generally happens, but they include the whole spectrum of scenarios. Last night, John Farrell wasn’t be theoretical; he was making practical decisions based on his observations. Based on his decisions, Farrell seemed to be saying: I know Lester will get me close to Uehara, and that’s more important than the advantage of batting Napoli over Lester. And, he was right. Now, the run expectancy table will say good decision, bad process, but I think the informed opinion of the manager is a significant mitigating factor.

Jason B
12 years ago
Reply to  Will

“he was making practical decisions based on his observations”

That’s where people go astray a lot; we place a *lot* of emphasis on anecdotes, particularly recent ones, and place *way* too much weight on them, rather than relying on a more robust data set.

Of course, we’ve all heard these types of things and often do it ourselves. “I’m always playing in these lucky socks, I went 3-for-4 and we’ve won four in a row!” or “You should stand on your head for five minutes then sleep in a cold room with no socks, it cleared up Aunt Mabel’s lupus!”

Joebrady
12 years ago
Reply to  Jason B

It depends on the rationale behind the decision. A PH pulling one around the foul pole is pretty much a non-factor.

Using Doubront instead of Breslow, because Doubront is pitching much better, is a no-brainer to me. Breslow walked 6 in his last 3.2 innings. I’m not bringing him in in G6 or G7 hoping today is the day he snaps out of his slump.

If this is April 30, assuming full health, I’ll bring him in his regular rotation, assuming he will EVENTUALLY return to form. With the WSC on the line, I am not bringing in someone that cannot throw a strike, no matter how good he looked earlier in the year.

George
12 years ago

I agree wholeheartedly that this was another manifestation of risk aversion. However, I think just as importantly, its people’s inability to properly understand the volatility of baseball events and thus the danger of accepting small sample size results as predictive. Dave has shown the chart with pitchers’ performances each time through the batting order so many times, but many people seem to believe that a certain pitcher pitching very well on a specific day disqualifies him from the effects shown by the chart even though the data for pitchers’ 3rd time through the order is already self-selecting. Now, I’m not going to argue that Tazawa was necessarily a better option than Lester, but I also don’t believe Lester was clearly better. Furthermore, yes the Cardinals’ right-handed hitters and Beltran have been mediocre/worse against left-handed pitchers this year, but outside of Holliday (who has almost no platoon split), they’ve all been much better against left-handed pitchers in their careers.

Yirmiyahu
12 years ago

Am I the only one who wanted to know who Lester walked against? Turns out he had a walk and a SF in the same game: 6/27/2010. He had a game-tying sac fly in the 2nd against Lincecum and then a walk in the 6th inning against Guillermo Mota.

George
12 years ago
Reply to  Yirmiyahu

As a Giants fan basing the following statements entirely off of anecdotal evidence, I’m not surprised it was Lincecum. He’s never had a great idea where the ball was going, and for a pitcher like Lester hitting with no intentions of swinging, Lincecum probably isn’t the worst matchup for him to face.

Klements Sausage
12 years ago
Reply to  George

The SF was off Lincecum, the walk off Mota.

Dan Jaffe
12 years ago
Reply to  Yirmiyahu

In the context of Lester’s hitting, you could say he was on fire that day!

Judy
12 years ago
Reply to  Dan Jaffe

Honestly, he crushed that sac fly to RF, might have been a HR in some parks, easily the closest he’s ever come to getting a hit.

HenduforKutch
12 years ago

I’m typically as pro-SABR as the next guy, and am dumbfounded at plenty of managerial moves. That said…

Does it account for the hitter’s K%? Particularly Napoli’s 35% K rate against RHP this year? Or his career 44% K rate as a pinch hitter?

Does the “3rd time through the order” chart differentiate between a pitcher going through the order a 3rd time while at 70-80 pitches vs. someone doing it at 100-110? Does it differentiate between a pitcher who dominated the first 2 trips vs. one who survived them?

I think if Napoli were the perfectly average hitter and Lester a perfectly average pitcher, RE and 3rd time charts should rule the day. But since neither of those is the case, especially with how Lester was pitching and the shakiness of the non-Uehara pen, they should be a part of the decision, not the sole arbiter of it.

RageAgainstTheNarrative
12 years ago
Reply to  HenduforKutch

Lester was basically starting the inning with 80+ pitches on his arm, as World Series pitches tend to be a lot more taxing on the arm.

I agree that context is needed just and you agree with SABR analysis. Given the baseline numbers however, the context would need to be utterly drastic in order to tip the balance in favor of leaving in Lester. In this case, there seems to be enough situation factors on either side of the debate. Lester is on fire; the guys in the bullpen have better averages to begin with. Napoli is iffy as a pinch hitter; Lester is almost literally an automatic out, oh and Napoli is a very good hitter to begin with.

The amount of context needed to wipe out a 0.4 run expectancy, let alone the 0.7 expectancy that is probably appropriate in this case, probably doesn’t not exist in any reasonable MLB situation. A high K rate isn’t close to enough justification.

Richard
12 years ago

“Lester was basically starting the inning with 80+ pitches on his arm, as World Series pitches tend to be a lot more taxing on the arm.”

Uh, what?!? And what evidence is that assertion backed up by?

Joebrady
12 years ago

“Lester was basically starting the inning with 80+ pitches on his arm, as World Series pitches tend to be a lot more taxing on the arm.”

Actually, the OPSa for 51-75 is higher than 76-100. So if you just want to use raw data, 76-100, assuming that you’ve already use him 51-75.

And 101-125, the OPSa goes way down. So if you used him for 76-100, the numbers mandate that you used him 101-125.

And those are AL #s. For Lester himself, his OPSa for 101-125, is by far his best. Do you want to guess why?

SUS
12 years ago

I wonder what the decision would have been had Boston been down 2-1 at that point with Lester pitching just as well, but finding himself behind due to a couple of unfortunate errors.

If we take it as a given that a run is a run is a run, then what’s the decision in that scenario?

George
12 years ago
Reply to  SUS

Except not all runs are created equal in terms of win expectancy. There are diminishing marginal returns for each run. In the actual scenario, the difference is between a 1 run lead and a 2 run/3 run lead. In your scenario, the difference is between a 1 run deficit and a tied game/1 run lead. There is much more to gain for Boston in your scenario for scoring a run.

Ruki Motomiya
12 years ago
Reply to  George

This.

Hoplite
12 years ago

Does anyone have the run expectancy for pitching to David Ortiz in the first inning with first base open vs. walking him?

Joebrady
12 years ago
Reply to  Hoplite

It depends on # of outs, but it -.39 with -0- outs I think.

AB
12 years ago

I’m not going to explicitly argue that it was the right move to leave Lester in, but for the context people are clamoring about, perhaps this merits consideration.

If you take Lester out and the score remains 2-1 (or even still goes to 3-1), you’re probably looking for 4 outs from some combination of relievers to get to Uehara. I don’t think Ferrell would have been justified had he turned it over to say Morales or Dempster (who would have to be reserved for any potential long innings needed should the game move into extra frames). You would also have to think that Doubront would be unavailable after throwing multiple innings the previous two nights. Given Breslow’s ineffectiveness, Ferrell would have been lambasted (and probably rightfully so) to go this route.

This would’ve left him with going with Tazawa and/or Workman (as suggested). I can entertain the idea that these guys might be yield a better net expected run differential, but one should at least consider the element of usage. Tazawa had been used in every game in the series thus far and putting him would’ve been pitching him on 3 straight days. What’s the performance curve like for relievers on a third straight day of usage? Has Tazawa ever pitched 3 straight days? In a long series like this, you also somewhat negate the advantage of unfamiliarity that comes with bringing in a reliever. Tazawa has already faced Jay (twice), Carpenter, Holliday (twice), Adams, Molina and Freese. In this situation, where Tazawa is more familiar to the hitters due up and being used on a third straight day, can you ascribe similar probabilities? I’m not so sure this can be disregarded from a manager’s thought process, because if you can’t rely on a similar level of performance, you’re placing a lot of risk in hoping Workman will come out and be effective.

The thing with relievers is that sometimes they’re just off. The good thing is that you can usually make a quick hook when this is the case. Going with a combination of Workman and a heavily used Tazawa as the plausible bridges to Uehara you are (a) subjecting yourself to an increased likelihood that Tazawa is off given frequent and repetitive use; and (b) leaving yourself with few options if Workman is off. With Lester you have an understood level of quality up to that point.

Cameron has aptly shown the performance curve of working through a lineup several times. But explicit in this argument is an interaction between the correlation of a high pitch count late in the game and increased familiarity. It is not clear which – the high pitch count or the 3rd time seeing somebody – has the greater impact since both a very highly correlated. Lester’s pitch count was still very low, so there should be a reduced chance that the third time through would weigh as heavily as his analysis suggests, unless the results are strongly due to familiarity and not to pitch count. If it is the former, you are opening yourself up to the argument that these relievers should show decaying effectiveness as the series progresses given that a batter has already seen this reliever in the series.

Brian
12 years ago
Reply to  AB

I think you’re a little blithe when you say “If you take Lester out and the score remains 2-1 (or even still goes to 3-1)…” That difference is HUGE. The demands on a reliever (or relievers) protecting a 1- or 2-run lead over 3 innings is basically the difference between needing a shutdown guy and merely a passable one.

That said, other people have mentioned Mike Napoli’s high K% rate, and Cards pitchers were bringing heat all night (14 K’s in all). I wonder if the win expectancy charts have been updated to account for the skyrocketing K% rates in general. I do know that getting that run home from third with fewer than 2 outs is becoming dicier and dicier with each passing year.

Luke
12 years ago
Reply to  AB

Good points. Let’s not forget that Koji was being brought in for the 3rd night in a row as well. Counting on him with no good pitchers left in the bullpen for 5 outs is somewhat risky, too.

Luke
12 years ago

Isn’t it true that, once you have a 1 run lead, a run saved becomes worth more than a run scored? So, if we’re going to compare run expectancies, shouldn’t they be weighted accordingly?

The win expectancy of a road team with a 1 run lead at the end of the 7th is 75%. If the game is tied at that point, the win expectancy is 50%. So, allowing a run to score in the bottom of the 7th would decrease your chances of winning by 25 percentage points.

On the other hand, had the Red Sox ended the top of the 7th without scoring, with their 2-1 lead they would have had a 64% chance of winning. With 1 run and a 3-1 lead, they had an 81% chance of winning. So getting 1 additional run in that inning was worth 17 percentage points.

Basically what I’m saying is, instead of looking at run expectancies on either side and comparing them literally, shouldn’t we instead be looking at overall win probability? If you want to make the statistical case that Farrell was wrong, make the FULL statistical case.

Luke
12 years ago
Reply to  Luke

Oops. Literally = linearly.

No MVP for MCAB
12 years ago
Reply to  Luke

Does the 81% chance of winning account for only a 3-1 lead? What if the Sox went up 4-1, then what % would there be?

With 2 RISP and only 1 out, I think you have to look at going up 4-1 as a not-so-unlikely outcome.

Luke
12 years ago

It goes up to 89%. So scoring 2 runs in that situation is worth 25% relative to ending the inning scoring 0.

But that goes both ways. Removing Lester (assuming he’s the best option to pitch the 7th) also increases the chances that the Red Sox give up 2 runs. If the Red Sox give up 2 runs in the bottom of the 7th, those 2 runs have a win probability differential of a whopping 51% (i.e. Cards have 25% chance of winning if losing 2-1 after 7, and 76% chance of winning is leading 3-2 after 7).

No MVP for MCAB
12 years ago
Reply to  Luke

Thanks.

Luke
12 years ago
Reply to  Luke

BTW I just used the win probability calculator in the link below, with the run environment set at 4.00:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/other/wpa_inquirer.php?view=standard&runs=4&base=8&inning=15&outs=0&score=1

Tim
12 years ago

I’m pretty sure Lester/Napoli were not batting against an average pitcher, and the gap in run expectancy was smaller thereby.

GreggB
12 years ago

Another side consideration not yet mentioned: a one-run game in the seventh might easily end up extended into extra innings. Farrell’s decision left him with a far stronger team AFTER that half-inning closed in the seventh than he would have had if he had pulled Lester for Napoli. Because he let Lester hit, he still had his strongest bat on the bench, for possible use in the ninth, tenth or eleventh — at bats that would very likely be even higher leverage than the situation in the seventh. And more importantly, he would not have tapped into his strongest relievers until late in the eighth. If Farrell marginally reduced his chances of a nine-inning win, he dramatically improved his chances of an extra-inning victory.

No MVP for MCAB
12 years ago
Reply to  GreggB

You should not manage your roster to plan for a future that may or may not happen. You play to win now.

You should not decrease your chances of winning in the moment to increase your chances of winning in a hypothetical situation.

If the Red Sox are winning game 6 by a tight margin, they should use whatever it takes to preserve that lead. They shouldn’t hold back a pitcher for use in game 7 when that pitcher could be used now.

Joebrady
12 years ago

Ohhh, that’s very wrong. I know you don’t mean it this way, but the phrase “You should not decrease your chances of winning in the moment to increase your chances of winning in a hypothetical situation.” means you always use your best pitcher.

Using Uehara for 3 innings with a 6-0 lead, to increase your chances of winning in the moment, provides only a marginal benefit in the moment, and is a huge negative overall. This is always a case-by-case proposition.

John
12 years ago

“On your toes: when was the last game decided by a critical misplay by the 1b?”

Well, that would be 1986 World Series — October 25, 1986. Ask any Red Sox fan.

Jason B
12 years ago
Reply to  John

Except, obviously, that single play did NOT decide that game. Did we forget the sequence of events before and after?

Bryan
12 years ago

“From a probabilistic mentality, these decisions are kind of nuts.”

Is it nuts? I think current statistics in this area are too blunt to actually guide practical decision making. Maybe in 10 years or 20 years we’ll have enough data that is context specific enough to be useful. The fact the model has no way of factoring in things like Lestor’s pitch count, Lestor’s dominance, or Napoli’s K% means that its not up for the job. There are other contextual factors worth considering that are just “inconveniently” ignored because the tool isn’t advanced enough to incorporate them.

Matthew TobinMember since 2016
12 years ago

This was one of those situations where I understood the decision. I didn’t like it, but I understood the reasoning and it wasn’t TERRIBLE reasoning.

Like a teachers grading a test. If someone has the wrong answer that is decently close and you can see there thought process and understand why they were off, you’ll probably give them partial credit.

However Farrell would have gotten an F on hitting Workman. Everything else could be right, but that was so wrong, it doesn’t matter. I see no rhyme or reason for that.

Dan
12 years ago

The job of a manager is to not get fired so that they continue to have a job and keep getting paid. If their team loses because they made decisions in line with traditional thinking and what everyone else would’ve done, nobody blames the manager and they don’t get fired. If they make a ballsy, albeit correct, decision and their team loses anyway, “everybody” blames the manager and he might get fired.

Look at all the heat Belichick took for going for it on 4th down against the Colts a few years ago and he has as much coaching cred as any coach in any sport.

Ruki Motomiya
12 years ago
Reply to  Dan

Going for it on 4th down was the wrong move, even if it worked, but your point is still valid.

Jason B
12 years ago
Reply to  Ruki Motomiya

False.

pft
12 years ago

There is always an element of uncertainty when you go to anyone in the pen not named Koji. Farrell was pretty sure he could hold onto a 2 run lead with a Lester who was cruising and Kojo to close it out. Lesters subsequent leg cramp made it a bit more interesting.

There was no guarantee Napoli would have done more than Lester given his K rate.

It really came down to Farrell not really being comfortable with his bullpen to get the 5 outs needed to get to Koji. Breslow has been awful and Tazawa is good but never pitched 3 games in consecutive days in the regular season coming off TJ surgery, and the Cardinals are a much worse hitting team against LHP’ers like Lester is.

Ivan Grushenko
12 years ago
Reply to  pft

The score was 2-1 when Lester batted. He had a 1 run lead, not two. Farrell was obviously still confident but perhaps should not have been.

Penelope
12 years ago

But it worked out? To explain what transpired as “the wrong decision” is at the least empirically false. It might have been unadvisable, but to state it was an objectively “wrong” decision ignores that it successfully achieved the ends of the game. Had it been wrong, the Sox would have lost. Maybe the Sox would have scored more runs, but to those who point that direction, I say that those (potential) runs were worthless. What happened proves that the numbers are not always right. Moreover, the urgent desire to chalk this up as more “blind squirrels with nuts” is to ignore two things: (1) that, however minor, the effect actual people playing this game will always have on the predictive ability of any available metrics renders those metrics flawed; and (2) the desire to explain away statistically “poor” decisions that actually succeed is a detriment to the game. Insinuating that Farrell’s decision was “lucky” injects two fault lines into the statistical foundation upon which the “insinuator” relies. First, it ignores the fact that the stats failed, and therefore, are not infallible. Second, it fails to recognize that what makes a good skip is the ability to make a decision that counters “what the numbers say” with success. Otherwise, how we measure success becomes divorced altogether from how the game measures success. And that makes our measure irrelevant.

Brandon
12 years ago
Reply to  Penelope

You’re saying that we should measure success with a sample size of one.

Which, yeah, no.

One of the major ideas of sabremetrics is using as much data as we can (which often means we have to average and regress things) so that we are most aware of the likelihood of different events. That’s exactly what we do, so that we don’t just become reactionary to anecdotal events.

Penelope
12 years ago
Reply to  Brandon

No. I’m saying you can’t deny that the result in this particular case was a successful one. And it was accomplished with a decision that, sabremetrically speaking, was flawed. I totally agree that acting with knowledge of the likelihood of potential outcomes is critical to giving a team its best chance to win, and that data makes that possible. I just wonder if Farrell damn well knew exactly what was at stake SABR-wise when he made his decision. And that if he did, it might should be called “good coaching.” Certainly you are not suggesting that assessing the quality of a skip’s performance only requires a review of whether each decision he makes is the sabremetrically appropriate one?

Jason B
12 years ago
Reply to  Penelope

“I just wonder if Farrell damn well knew exactly what was at stake SABR-wise when he made his decision. And that if he did, it might should be called “good coaching.””

So just to be clear–if a manager makes a decision that goes against empirical evidence and it works, we should chalk that up to good coaching? Is that always true, or case-by-case?

Started David Ortiz at SS and let Lester hit cleanup, but hey we won–good coaching!

PackBob
12 years ago

This not only illustrates the probabilistic reluctance of managers, but also the idea that adhering to probabilities to produce the best result is not necessarily the best choice. There is a reason that small sample size makes a difference. Small sample sizes get skewed by unmeasured effects. The same thing happens in reverse when trying to apply probabilities based on many samples to one instance. There are other factors at play besides what was measured to arrive at the probabilities.

The function of statistical analysis is to arrive at explanations arising from trends. The beauty of statistical analysis is to recognize that in a single sample, anything can happen within the bounds of possibility, and probably will.

Brandon
12 years ago
Reply to  PackBob

The problem with these unmeasured effects is that there are a lot of people out there who think that they can measure them, or that they can ‘diagnose the intangibles’ or whatever., when they really have no idea.

Diagnosing intangibles is really hard. You’re likely to be wrong most of the time (even if anecdotal results make you feel as if you aren’t), and so using a probabilistic method is almost always the way to go.

Joebrady
12 years ago
Reply to  PackBob

I’m a numbers guy, but I think way too many people are ignoring material short-term swings. Take the most obvious case-the pitcher lost the strike zone.

It’s the second inning, and the pitcher has walked five in a row, on 20 pitches. Is anyone seriously going to keep him in the game, just because his full-year ERA is 3.50? It is almost impossible to keep him in the game, because you think he will return to form.

Or in your roto league. It is 8/31. Would anyone trade Goldsmith for Hamilton, simply because Hamilton use to have better stats? At some point, you have to throw out older stats for more recent stats.

Though it is a thin line.

odbsol
12 years ago

“How much worse would you think the relievers being asked to get the next six outs would have to be from Lester just to even that decision out?”

Boston still had 9 outs to get unless the assumption is that Lester would only be looking at 6 outs with Uehara getting the last 3. It was the top of the 7th when he batted.

Reade King
12 years ago
Reply to  odbsol

I’m pretty comfortable believing that was the implicit assumption there.

Reade King
12 years ago

There are far too many variables that aren’t addressed by a purely probabilistic approach to the situation for any manager to be comfortable using said approach in the 7th inning of a 1-run game in the 5th game of the World series with the series tied 2-2!

1) RE is based on the average runs scored over many years, even though strikeout rates are steadily rising recently. (i.e., RE might need to be re-run over fewer years to get a more accurate read on current RE).

2)The opposing pitcher is one of the best in the game, not average at all. Has RE been run against just the best pitchers in the game? Of course not, because how would one determine which games to ignore? Clearly it will prove to be the case, however, that overall RE is lower when the hitters are facing more elite opposition. Since Lester’s batting history essentially makes HIS particular chance in the situation essentially 0.0% NO MATTER WHO he is facing, the loss in RE produced by batting him is clearly lower than it would be facing an average pitcher.

3) The crux of mgl’s argument (rant, actually, no matter how statistically sound it is, it is also over the top) is that the penalty for a pitcher facing batters the third time through the order outweighs any consideration of how well a pitcher has pitched so far in a game; yet he himself has said that he hasn’t yet tried to compare the penalty for a pitcher who has thrown an unusually low number of pitches to that point. 69 pitches over 20 batters puts Lester on target for a complete game at about 90 pitches. So, unusually low.

4) As many close observers of the game have noted, the choice essentially was between weakening both the bullpen and the bench in case the game did get tied later on vs. the not-extremely-good chance that either Napoli or Carp might produce an additional run. RE does not look at the context; but the context exists.

rockymountainhigh
12 years ago

I would have squeezed, presuming Lester has any ability to get down a bunt. You increase the chance of a productive at bat and reduce the possibility of a dp. If you don’t get the run home, you’ve still got the man on third for Ellsbury. It’s true that Farrell would have been criticized for letting Lester hit if the lead hadn’t held up, but he would have been absolutely destroyed if he pulled Lester for an unproductive AB and the lead hadn’t held up.

Steve B
12 years ago

The math for pulling Lester is pretty strong and difficult to argue against, but I’m a little disappointed that it hasn’t been discussed how much we can attribute this “third time through the order” drop in SP performance to players’ getting familiar with a pitcher, and how much is has to do with fatigue.

My guess is that it has A LOT more to do with fatigue than it does with hitters’ seeing a pitcher for the third time. Hitters make adjustments in-game, yes, but so do pitchers. Also, we’ve seen that hitters don’t have a historical advantage the second time a pitcher faces them in a series, so why should we assume that it makes a massive difference by itself within a game?

Clearly, pitchers fare worse the third time through the order, but I think that has a lot more to do with high pitch counts than anything else. Unfortunately, I don’t have the tools to analyze this properly. I’d be interested to see what the drop off in pitcher production is the third time through the order in cases where the starter has only thrown 70 pitches.

Again, I think it’s really hard to justify keeping Lester in the game. But at the same time, I think that the “third time through the order” needs to be analyzed further before we can reliably apply it to this specific situation.

Joebrady
12 years ago
Reply to  Steve B

There is more to it than that. If this was strictly linear, then there is no chance that pitches 101-125 would produce a better OPSa than pitches 51-75.