Spencer Torkelson and Edouard Julien Optioned to Triple-A

Baseball is big business and no team is infinitely patient with players who are struggling. While teams won’t generally describe it in such blunt terms, at the beginning of the season, every player has some unknown, invisible amount of leeway when it comes to poor performance. Established role players and fringe starters who just squeezed their way onto the big league roster in March may find themselves in the Pacific Coast or International League come late April or early May as they feel the heat of a poor start. As summer approaches, the names facing demotion become bigger, especially when those players are younger guys who still have minor league options remaining. On Sunday night, two of those bigger names ran out of rope, at least for now: Spencer Torkelson and Edouard Julien are headed to Triple-A to play for smaller crowds in smaller towns.
Before we examine what this pair of demotions means, I thought I’d put some numbers to the broader phenomena. I looked at the preseason ZiPS projections for players optioned during the season over the last 10 years. In nine of the 10 seasons, June was the month in which the players with the most combined projected WAR were sent to the minors. That holds true on a rate basis as well, with 0.75 projected WAR per June demoted player the highest monthly average. Naturally, demoted players tend to be worse performers than those who keep their jobs. To use last year as an example, of the 1,091 demotions, only 19 involved players projected for at least 2 WAR. Just one such player, Brayan Bello, was optioned in April, but starting on May 10 with Jose Miranda, bigger demotions started populating the list, with Miranda, David Villar, Oswald Peraza, Brandon Pfaadt, Alek Manoah, Josh Rojas, and Luis Urías all hitting the minors from mid-May through the end of June. Only four two-win players were demoted in July, with Manoah’s second demotion on August 11 the final one.
The usual pattern has held this year. Only a single player project for 2 WAR was optioned in April (Jackson Holliday), but in the last week, six other players — in chronological order, James Outman, Bryce Elder, Jack Suwinski, Reid Detmers, and now Torkelson and Julien — have joined the list.
Neither Torkelson nor Julien were fringe players with projections that looked too bullish – rather, they were two players who were expected to play key roles on playoff-relevant teams. Still, in my eyes, Torkelson’s demotion was easily the more justified of the two. Formerly a top prospect, the Tigers first baseman lost much of that sheen after a brutal 2022. Last season didn’t start much better, but his Statcast numbers were rock-solid and the team’s patience appeared to be paying off when he put up an .855 OPS with 16 homers in August and September, a performance more in line with those measures. Batting order doesn’t mean much in terms of how many runs a team will score, but where a player hits does reflect a team’s confidence in him, and Torkelson spent most of this April hitting second, third, or fourth in Detroit’s lineup. But he didn’t hit his first home run until the second week of May, and his line didn’t look that different from that rough 2022 season.
No player bombs a team single-handedly, but Detroit had genuine reason to hope that the offense was on the upswing, with Torkelson and Riley Greene better established, Colt Keith in the lineup, and veterans like Gio Urshela and Mark Canha there to keep the lows from getting too low. Detroit has hung around .500 despite the offense ranking 24th in baseball (95 wRC+) on the strength of their front-end pitching. While that be enough to keep a team competitive in the Central most years, the Guardians have won nearly two-thirds of their games, and both the Twins and (more surprisingly) the Royals have decent cushions on the Tigers. Sure, Detroit is lapping the White Sox, but that’s no more satisfying in 2024 than beating your five-year-old nephew at arm wrestling.
Unlike last year, there’s no happy underlying Statcast story that predicts a hot second half for Torkelson. A slugger with a hard-hit rate under 40% and a barrel rate under 5% can hardly be considered much of a slugger at all. How brutal are his overall Statcast numbers? Based on the Statcast data, ZiPS thinks that Torkelson should be hitting .203/.278/.292 this season, which is somehow even bleaker than his actual .201/.266/.330 line. Like every movie based on a video game in the 1990s, Torkelson has earned his awfulness on merit this year. It’s difficult to be a good power hitter if you can’t hit a fastball, and Tork’s hitting .179 and slugging .292 against the hard stuff. If the “what” is easy, the why is harder. Torkelson’s bat speed remains in the 80th percentile, while his plate discipline numbers are essentially unchanged. The seeds of his struggles might be found a little deeper: a significant drop in his sweet spot rate (six percentage points), leading to more sad popups and lazy flies.
The Tigers will give Torkelson every chance to show he can still be a big part of the team’s plans, but he’ll do so as a Mud Hen for now. The updated ZiPS projections show Torkelson losing about 0.7 WAR a year since the start of 2024:
| Year | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | SB | OPS+ | DR | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2025 | .236 | .315 | .444 | 576 | 86 | 136 | 34 | 1 | 28 | 84 | 61 | 151 | 2 | 110 | -2 | 2.0 |
| 2026 | .238 | .318 | .446 | 576 | 87 | 137 | 34 | 1 | 28 | 86 | 63 | 147 | 2 | 112 | -2 | 2.1 |
| 2027 | .243 | .324 | .454 | 573 | 88 | 139 | 35 | 1 | 28 | 86 | 64 | 143 | 2 | 116 | -2 | 2.4 |
| 2028 | .241 | .324 | .449 | 564 | 86 | 136 | 34 | 1 | 27 | 84 | 64 | 139 | 2 | 114 | -3 | 2.2 |
| 2029 | .241 | .325 | .446 | 551 | 84 | 133 | 33 | 1 | 26 | 81 | 63 | 135 | 2 | 114 | -3 | 2.1 |
That’s a drop-off from a projected 124 OPS+ in 2025 to a 110. While he still forecasts to be a real major leaguer again, there’s little margin for error, and stardom feels a lot more elusive than it did just two months ago.
We now come to the Edouard Julien portion of the proceedings, and I’m far more grumbly here than I was about Torkelson. And I’m not just saying that because my colleague Davy Andrews’ little Julien earworm is the third-most listened to baseball-related song in my music library, behind Belle and Sebastian’s Piazza, New York Catcher and Jonathan Coulton’s Kenesaw Mountain Landis. At .207/.309/.367, Julien certainly isn’t matching his .263/.381/.459 line from last year, but then, nobody projected him to match his rookie line. With the drop-off on offense, that line amounts to a 99 wRC+, quite respectable for a second baseman. Among the 27 players this year to get 100 PA while playing second base, Julien is right in the middle of the pack in terms of WAR, at 13th of the 27. He’s also improved defensively at second, with a +4 OAA there through two months.
Unlike Torkelson, ZiPS sees Julien’s Statcast data implying better results than his actual line so far, with a zOPS of .717 compared to his actual .676. His defensive improvement — ZiPS was very skeptical about him at second — actually balances out the slight decline in his offensive outlook, and as a result, he’s still projected for the same 2025 WAR as he was back in March:
| Year | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | SB | OPS+ | DR | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2025 | .234 | .353 | .382 | 482 | 71 | 113 | 24 | 1 | 15 | 65 | 84 | 174 | 10 | 106 | 0 | 3.3 |
| 2026 | .234 | .353 | .387 | 491 | 73 | 115 | 25 | 1 | 16 | 67 | 86 | 172 | 10 | 107 | 0 | 3.5 |
| 2027 | .233 | .353 | .385 | 493 | 73 | 115 | 25 | 1 | 16 | 67 | 87 | 169 | 9 | 107 | 0 | 3.5 |
| 2028 | .229 | .350 | .380 | 489 | 72 | 112 | 24 | 1 | 16 | 65 | 87 | 166 | 8 | 105 | -1 | 3.3 |
| 2029 | .227 | .346 | .374 | 481 | 69 | 109 | 24 | 1 | 15 | 63 | 84 | 162 | 7 | 103 | -1 | 3.0 |
No, Julien isn’t likely to ever hit for a high batting average, but this is a league hitting .240, not the .270 league of the late 90s. That’s a very good projection and a player you want in the lineup, not riding buses to medium-sized cities in June.
In other words, Julien wasn’t demoted for being one of the worst players in baseball this year, but for merely being a league-average second baseman. Julien has struggled lately, but “previous month” is an extremely poor projection system. And yes, the returning Royce Lewis plays the infield and the team’s role players are largely veterans without options remaining. But I don’t find that to be a compelling argument for demoting Julien, and it’s extremely conservative behavior for a team looking up at two teams in the divisional standings. If you’re unimpressed by Julien’s 99 wRC+ this year, well, the team’s current starting first baseman, Carlos Santana, has hit worse than that for going on five years, with a wRC+ of 94 since the start of 2020. Santana is also 38 and has next to no defensive value. Kyle Farmer’s been struggling to keep his OPS above .500, and Manuel Margot has hit .209/.274/.264 coming off an uninspiring role last year as a spare outfielder. None of these players are part of Minnesota’s future, and they haven’t done much for the present, either.
“But Dan, they all have big contracts!” So? You have to pay them no matter what, so all that really matters is whether they help you win baseball games or not. Just because you paid $15 for the cheeseburger you fumbled into a muddy puddle on the street doesn’t mean you’re compelled to finish it. The Twins ought to prefer paying Santana $3.5 million to go fishing or play golf or hit cleanup for the Marlins, and the same goes for Farmer and Margot. Julien may not match his 2023 production, but he’s the player who gives the Twins the best chance of catching up to the Royals and Guardians, and he’ll be playing for the St. Paul Saints for at least the next week or two.
The AL Central race probably doesn’t hinge on whether or not Julien starts for a few weeks in June, but it’s an extremely disappointing decision. For now, Willi Castro will probably get the most starts at second, but it feels like with a bit more imagination, the Twins could have kept Julien, found playing time for both Castro and Miranda, and left the team with a lineup that had more upside.
Perhaps it’s June, not April, that is the cruelest month, at least in baseball.
Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.
Watching the Tigers offense these last several years has been an exercise in endless disappointment. Even some of my extended family who know nothing about WAR or Statcast and the like seem resigned to considering Tork a bust, which was not true at the end of last year at all.
If only we could graft 4 more arms to Skubal so he could make every pitching start.
So Tarikali Skubal?
I think we have to look at the coaching staff. The one thing I think we all could agree upon is that when the season started, Tork could hit a fastball. Suddenly, at the age of 24, he can’t?
If there is something off with his swing the major league hitting coach should be able to fix it. If the coach in Toledo is able to find the adjustments, then the coach at the top is the wrong guy.
Hey, at least Hinch isn’t hitting Baez in the middle of the line-up anymore, lol.
Pirates fans have been saying the same stuff about Henry Davis, Jack Suwinski and Oneil Cruz and the hitting coach.
Where is the poster now that posted awhile back that Carpenter, Torkelson, and Greene would combine to hit 150 HR this year?
I’m in on Julien long term still for the same reasons. Guys who can play a position like 2B adequately tend to get a lot of chances to work out their problems, so I think he’ll be back soon before long.
As for Torkelson, I’m surprised the projections still like him that much. If he’s not hitting for power there really isn’t a point in having Spencer Torkelson on your team. He’s only 24 but so is Justyn-Henry Malloy, and aside from pedigree they are looking kind of similar these days in terms of likelihood of making it.
Julien’s defense at 2B is really remarkably better than it was. I don’t know that his approach is really even the problem – usually taking borderline pitches is the right move, at least with less than two strikes. He’s just missing the ones he does swing at.
Julien seems to have an obvious point to work on, which is swing the bat for the love of Alanis Morissette. He leads the league in strikeouts looking with 34. 2nd place is Winker at 26 and 3rd is Elly at 25. No one else has more than 22. That’s crazy! Advanced statistical analysis tells me that not swinging at strikes when you have a two-strike count results in outs 100% of the time.
He’s also second to last qualified hitters in swing% and 5th in called strike%. But I’ll start with just not giving away outs without even making an attempt.
Thanks for answering the question before I asked it.
The Julien really seems odd at face value unless there was a specific thing to work out, or pitchers had identified a weakness that was being exploited over and over recently. Because the overall numbers are just fine.
It’s mostly just a roster crunch issue with Royce Lewis coming back. Miranda is hitting well, Larnach is hitting well,and they’re reluctant to cut Farmer or Margot (the obvious choices on performance). Julien just got the short end of the stick because he’s slumping and he’s got an option.
It’s not just a roster crunch. Julien has to realize he’s not Ted Williams and he’s not going to get a break on close pitches. So swing the bat with two strikes and a close pitch. Anything’s better than an endless number of called third strikes.
Yeah, he needs to adjust. But he’s still got a 99 wRC+. Farmer is at 54 and Margot is at 61. And of course Vazquez is at 5(!!!). Maybe he can get to negative?
I think it’s a roster crunch plus the coaching staff being annoyed with outs that seem way too passive. All else being equal, there’s a psychological bias against strikeouts (especially looking) even vs weak contact.
Why can’t they play Julien at 1B?
Any Fangraphs column that references Belle & Sebastian is a winner in my book.
Is it possible the Tigers are doing a little service time manipulation? Or sending Julian down to preserve on player they think they could swap for something?
Tork has been worth -.8 WAR this year. Service time has nothing to do with this decision. He *needs* to get sent down to at least clear his head; he looks absolutely miserable on the field and it is clear he needs a reset.
I hope it works for Tork but it is getting late early.
I think OP probably meant the Twins, not the Tigers.
Twins are very adverse to losing an asset, even if it’s a failing veteran one. Sunk cost fallacy for sure. It’s somewhat understandable after the debacle of 2022 where they simply didn’t have enough functional outfielders and their lack of depth ruined the season. But at a certain point bad depth becomes less useful than no depth, and the Twins still have guys in the minors that can be contributors, at least at the level of Farmer or Margot. (the Vazquez issue is tougher, because that involves eating the 2025 and ownership has put a payroll limit on that makes that much dead money very painful) Julien should be fine, but getting the Twins to cut bait sooner with underperforming veterans is going to be harder.
As a Twins fan, I would have liked to see a Margot DFA instead of a Julien demotion, but I can see the argument for what they did: If Julien can break his slump (42 wRC+ over 95 PAs) faster and more decisively in AAA than he would in MLB, then the benefit of that after he comes back could outweigh the benefit of removing a worse player from the roster now.
The argument for demoting Julien is that with Willi Castro, Jose Miranda, and (eventually) Royce Lewis around he wasn’t going to get everyday playing time in MLB and he will figure it out faster if he’s playing every day in the minors. I don’t really buy this because Castro is being used in a super-utility role and Lewis isn’t back yet, but whenever Lewis comes back I see the logic.
Tangential question – when did “utility” get replaced by “super utility” or is there some difference? Perhaps utility used to connote a glove first player, maybe with a little speed, but from Zobrist onwards we now imagine different archetypes, and those are “super”?
I think to me it’s more about whether the said player can play both infield and outfield. Castro is doing both, Zobrist did both. So that makes them “super”
Eh, I wouldn’t have called Brock Holt a “Super Utility” guy, even during his heyday.
For me, the difference is more along the lines of that between a backup and a 6th man.
IIRC Holt mostly didn’t play everyday because he was injured.
Double checked, and you’re right for his first couple years with the Sox.
He did average fewer than 4 PA/Game and ~80 games a year for his last six years, but 2023 IKF is a better shout as a modern successor to Jerry Hairston Jr…a fun, useful player whom no one would ever mistake for Ben Zobrist.
I’d say a “Super-Utility” guy is an everyday player who does so across multiple positions – Zobrist is obviously the prototype, but it would also apply to guys like DJ LeMahieu, Jeff McNeil, Whit Merrifield, Brendan Donovan, etc.
That’s in contrast to a “true” utility player like Cavan Biggio or a 4th OF like Manny Margot, who’d be expected to get ~300 PA a year.
I like this definition better than the one I gave above.
Lewis is back today, it’s 100% why they made this move — someone needed off the active roster with him coming back.
I get arguments for and against not DFA’ing one of the underperforming vets, and the end of the day I am fine with what the Twins are doing here. I see it as a chance to buy some time for Farmer to see if he can start performing. (I don’t think Margot is going anywhere — he’s been fine the last couple weeks and they need him given all of their lefty OFs)
Yeah, this is the path of least commitment. They kind of need both Margot and Santana as right handed bats.
Farmer is the guy who’s surplus, but they’re attached to his leadership or something (he does seem like a good dude – give him a coaching role).
They have a bunch of 3B options (Lewis, Miranda, Castro) a bunch of 2B options (Julien, Castro, Austin Martin, Lewis could probably play there), enough SS (Correa, Castro, Lewis could probably play there for awhile). I suppose they could also cut Santana and use Miranda more as a RH 1B – he started 70 games there in 2022.
Chances are someone else gets hurt in a week or two and Julien will be right back up. I just hope it isn’t Lewis again.
Lewis is in todays lineup
Santana is obvious DFA candidate as Dan pointed out.
Whatever confidence and pure hitting stroke Torkelson had at Arizona State is completely gone. The Tigers can live with a lousy fielding first baseman who hits .240 with 30 homers and 90 RBI. But Torkelson has been missing middle-middle fastballs since spring training. Of all the 1-1 busts he seemed the least likely, but now there’s growing concern that unless he gets a reset in Toledo, he’s never going to be a long-term solution. And those ZiPS projections are underwhelming to say the least.
Change of scenery candidate.
At 24 he might still figure it out in a year or two.
But that would require different voices with a different message.
Man, the top of that 2020 draft is looking pretty rough these days.
I agree the Twins should have cut a vet. Having said that, Julien’s excessive patient approach and the fact he can’t hit anything other than a fastball sent him packing. He needs to work on those two things.