Sunday Notes: Vizquel, Lindor, Shipley, Ryan, Mussina, more
Omar Vizquel will be on Hall of Fame ballots for the first time in 2018. In all likelihood, he’ll still be there when I become eligible to vote a few years later (This is my sixth year in the BBWAA, so I have four to go). The defensive whiz will receive some support, but his odds of reaching the 75% mark aren’t great. There’s a pretty decent chance he’ll eventually end up an Eras Committee candidate.
The arguments against Vizquel are valid. His .688 OPS and 82 adjusted OPS are clearly inferior, and he was an All-Star just three times in 24 seasons. His 42.6 WAR pales in comparison to Alan Trammell’s 63.7, and the Tigers’ great was (inexplicably) snubbed by the BBWAA.
I plan to vote for Vizquel.
In some respects, he is the shortstop version of Tim Raines. Much as the latter was overshadowed by Rickey Henderson, Vizquel was overshadowed by Ozzie Smith. Were it not for The Wizard, Vizquel would have been regarded by many as the best defensive shortstop of his generation. As it is, he’s among the best ever.
Vizquel played 2,709 games at shortstop, the most all-time. He turned more double plays than anyone at that position, and he has the fifth-most assists. He was charged with 183 errors in 11, 961 chances. (Ozzie Smith had 281 errors in 12,905 chances.)
With the bat, Vizquel logged 2,877 hits, which is sixth-most among shortstops, and 42nd overall. His 2,968 games played (at any position) are more than all but 11 players in history.
Will Vizquel be one of the 10 most-deserving candidates when I have the honor of filling out my first ballot? Some of that depends on what happens in the next few years, but I expect that he will. Despite lackluster numbers in some meaningful offensive categories, Vizquel was an elite defensive shortstop for a very long time.
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Sticking with the Hall of Fame, it can be easier to compare players whose careers were of similar duration. You still need to account for eras and environment, but you’re spared from having to weigh 12 seasons of accomplishment (someone like Kirby Puckett) versus 23 seasons (Carl Yastrzemski).
With that in mind, let’s look at Juan Marichal, who threw 3,507 innings, and Mike Mussina, who threw 3,562-and-two-thirds innings.
Marichal was selected to the Hall of Fame in 1983, in his third year on the ballot. The San Francisco Giants legend finished his career with a record of 243-142, and 2,303 strikeouts.
Mussina, who is on the ballot for the fourth time (he received 43% of the vote last year) finished with a record of 270-153, and 2,813 strikeouts.
Each had an adjusted ERA of 123, while Mussina owns a huge edge in WAR, 82.2 to 61.2.
Is Marichal a worthy Hall of Famer? Without a doubt. Mussina? Do the math.
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Dave Wallace — we heard from him on his future plans a few days ago — knows Francisco Lindor well. The 37-year-old former catcher began managing in the Cleveland Indians system in 2011, which was Lindor’s draft year. They were together in all of 2012, most of 2013, and roughly half of 2014. Along the way, Wallace had to temper the promising young shortstop’s ambitious goals.
“Frankie had this inner belief, and this confidence, that he could play at the next level,” said Wallace. “This was from low-A to high-A, from high-A to Double-A, and from there to Triple-A. We saw how advanced he was, but we also saw some developmental things, where we didn’t want to move him as quickly as he would have liked.”
Physical tools were never an issue.
“It was more the mindset,” explained Wallace. “It was the daily preparation and the mental effort that it takes to play a full major-league season. I think there were times he got bored in the minor leagues. He didn’t feel as challenged as he likes to be.
“He kind of interpreted not getting promoted as him not doing something that we wanted to see, or that maybe we were holding him back for contract reasons. That just wasn’t the case. It was about the process, and trusting that process. It was about the experiences our staff, and the front office, had with the timelines of a player’s development. We talked about that.”
Wallace was impressed with the way Lindor handled those conversations. As much as he wanted to accelerate his progress, the precocious shortstop was mature enough to accept the reasoning.
“A lot of times, guys will hold grudges against organizations because their timelines don’t match up,” said Wallace. “Frankie wasn’t that way. He views himself as part of a team, part of the organization.”
Lindor had a classic good-bye line when he was promoted from a Wallace-led team for the final time.
“He said, ‘See you later, Wally; I’m going on to bigger and better things,’” remembered Wallace “And rightfully so. I’m fortunate to have played a small role in his development. It’s a blast to watch him now.”
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A couple of Nolan Ryan factoids, which would read as unbelievable if they weren’t about Nolan Ryan:
A total of 489 players had at least one plate appearance against Ryan without recording a hit. Gates Brown, with 31, had the most. He went 0 for 24 with seven walks against Ryan.
On June 14, 1974, Ryan had 19 strikeouts and 10 walks over 13 innings in a game against the Red Sox. Ryan reportedly threw 235 pitches. Four days later, he threw six shutout innings against the Yankees.
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The short-season Northwest League has a new logo. It might be the best in all of minor league baseball.
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My August 14 Notes column included two paragraphs on Arizona Diamondbacks right-hander Braden Shipley. The 24-year-old rookie told me he’s learned that curling his toes helps him take velocity off his changeup. That trick is only part of his ongoing efforts to improve his pitch-ability.
“I’m not so much of a power pitcher anymore,” said Shipley, who the D-Backs selected 15th overall in the 2013 draft. “I’m able to run it up there 94-95 when I want to, but I heavily rely on sinking the ball, and using my offspeed. I’m not out there trying to throw everything hard like I used to. I still have a four-seam, but I’m more sinker-changeup-curveball now.”
Shipley called his sinker his “bread and butter,” adding that he throws it with an atypical grip.
“I actually don’t throw it off of any seams,” explained Shipley. “I throw a no-seam. Some people think it’s weird, but it’s worked for me. It feels comfortable in my hand.”
The University of Nevada product had mixed results in his first big-league season. Called up from Triple-A Reno in late July, Shipley had a 5.27 ERA over 70 innings of work.
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On Friday, the Arizona Republic’s Nick Piecoro Tweeted that the Diamondbacks have been in contact with free-agent catcher Jeff Mathis (who, per reports, subsequently signed a two-year deal),. That prompted a lot of responses on his feed, a majority of which were negative.
I understand the reaction — fans want sexy acquisitions, and Mathis is anything but. That doesn’t mean he’s unappealing to a pitching staff. Veteran catchers who provide leadership and quality defense can be invaluable to a pitching staff. David Ross, in Chicago, is a good example. Mathis will be 34 in March, and he’s reaching the point of his career where a Grandpa Matty nickname might be apropos.
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Not sure I buy the chagrin over Javier Vazquez not being on the Hall of Fame ballot. He had a good career, but he’s clearly not worthy of a plaque in Cooperstown. Every year, a scribe or two tosses a bone to a player of a this ilk, and he’s criticized for doing so. Nothing against Vazquez, but the fewer non-deserving players on the ballot, the better.
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Baseball America recently named Art Charles their 2016 Independent League Player of the Year. Playing for the New Jersey Jackals, Charles led the Can-Am League in batting average (.352), home runs (29), and OPS (1.160). He spent 2015 in Double-A with the Phillies before being released prior to this season. The Reds inked the 26-year-old first baseman to a minor-league deal in October.
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Not included in my recent interview with Bud Black were this thoughts on pitchers relying heavily on one specific breaking pitch. When I asked him about it, the Colorado Rockies — and former San Diego Padres — skipper sounded amenable to the idea.
“I think there’s something to that,” said Black. “We lived it a little bit in San Diego with Tyson Ross and as many sliders as he threw. He was effective with a mix of fastballs and sliders, with heavy use of his slider. I saw it with Luke Gregerson in San Diego as well.”
Breaking pitches move differently in Colorado than they do at sea level, but Colorado’s new manager didn’t sound overly concerned.
“Huston Street has been with the Rockies and the Padres, and he threw the same number of sliders in Coors as he did at Petco,” said Black. “You don’t need to throw more fastballs at Coors. It’s just a matter of consisting spinning the ball.”
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In 1976, the Tigers took Alan Trammell with the 26th pick of that year’s amateur draft. With the 27th pick, Atlanta selected Dom Chiti, a left-handed pitcher who topped out in A ball after hurting his arm. Chiti is returning to the Braves as their director of pitching, following three years as the bullpen coach in Baltimore. It will be his third tenure with his original organization. He was a special assistant to former Braves’ GM Frank Wren prior to joining the Orioles.
His father, former big-league backstop Harry Chiti, is famous for once being traded for himself. Dom told the story in a Sunday Notes column two years ago.
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LINKS YOU’LL LIKE
How did raising the fences impact home run production at Coors Field in 2016? Thomas Harding has a detailed answer at MLB.com.
According to MLB.com’s Jeffrey Flanagan, Royals bench coach Don Wakamatsu is very curious about StatCast.
At CBS Sports, R.J. Anderson opined that Jonathan Judge could be the new Nate Silver.
According to Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times, the new CBA “didn’t do much of anything to help” the Rays.
Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports has details on the new CBA, which, according to a high-ranking official, is “just the setup for war in 2021.”
RANDOM FACTS AND STATS
Over the last four seasons, no pitcher with at least 250 innings has a lower ERA than Mark Melancon’s 1.80 mark.
Will Clark went 12 for 36 with six home runs against Nolan Ryan. Albert Belle went 18 for 46 with six home runs against Mike Mussina.
Matt Williams went 2 for 30 against Jim Deshaies. Both hits were home runs, and they came in back-to-back at bats on the same day. Williams was a rookie shortstop at the time. It was the first of 31 multi-homer games he would have in his career.
In 1983, Red Sox outfielder Tony Armas had 36 home runs and a .707 OPS. Wade Boggs had five home runs and a .931 OPS.
This past season, Houston’s Jose Altuve led all players with 216 hits. He struck out 70 times. In 1897, Baltimore’s Wee Willie Keeler led all players with 239 hits. He struck out five times.
Fifteen pitchers threw 200-or-more innings this year. In 1916, a year where there were just 16 teams — 44 pitchers threw 200-or-more innings.
Gavvy Cravath — the deadball era’s premier power hitter — led the National League in home runs six times between 1913-1919. Philadelphia’s Baker Bowl was a big reason. At home, Cravath slashed .313/.407/.580, with 86 home runs. On the road, he slashed .273/.363/.410, with 20 home runs.
David Laurila grew up in Michigan's Upper Peninsula and now writes about baseball from his home in Cambridge, Mass. He authored the Prospectus Q&A series at Baseball Prospectus from December 2006-May 2011 before being claimed off waivers by FanGraphs. He can be followed on Twitter @DavidLaurilaQA.
I know it has been said before, but this column really is one of the highlights of my week.
Harry Chiti wasn’t an outfielder. He was a catcher, one of those fringe guys who hung around for parts of 10 seasons. My dad remembers him having hecklers galore at Wrigley Field. I remember him a little as a Tiger and an Original Met. One season, it seemed like I got his baseball card in every pack.
I got Jerry Lumpe in all my packs.
To clarify, the Northwoods League is a summer collegiate league and is not affiliated with the minor leagues.
There’s a major difference between Vizquel and Raines. Viqzuel is a good player, but not a HoF calibre guy. Vizquel rarely topped 3.5 WAR, whereas Smith was routinely 4-6 WAR. Smith had 10 seasons of 4-6 WAR, Vizquel had 1. There isn’t a legitimate argument for Vizquel beyond “I liked watching him play”. He’s a compiler, not a top tier guy.
Hall of pretty good, not Hall of Fame. And he shouldn’t be compared in the “overshadowed” sense, as Raines at least had 65+ WAR.
Your vote, you do what you want with it, but I couldn’t agree with putting him in. And if he got in, I’d be even more upset that Lofton or Edmonds didn’t get in.
I 100% agree with your point, but the point the writer was making wasn’t about comparing the quality of the two players. Rather, it was about comparing how they shared the fact that they were overshadowed by “the best ever ___”, while they were the second best. I don’t think it’s unfair to argue Vizquel as the second best defensive SS, and if Ozzie never played he might have been the best. In which case, it would be much easier to let him in the hall as the best defensive SS ever, much like Ozzie’s HOF case. The point was that his defense merits the HOF, the reason we don’t look at it that way is because of Ozzie playing at the same time, and not the actual ability of Vizquel. Basically- without Ozzie- Vizquel probably gets in as the best defensive SS of all time much like Raines would have gotten in (at least quicker) as the best leadoff hitter of all time had Henderson not played or played in a different era.
I understood his point, but just because he’s the best defensive SS doesn’t mean he’s good enough to be in the Hall of Fame. While he’s an elite fielder, he gave away so many runs with his bat that he didn’t provide as much value as a lesser fielder who was a superior hitter.
I think that’s poor logic, that if he was the best fielder we should let him in the hall for that reason.
Totally agree. His peak offense was better before he hung around forever(87 wRC+ until he turned 39), but still not very good. I don’t think his defense makes up enough for his offense to make him a Hall of Famer. I’m not 100% sold on Smith, either, for that matter.
Peak Ozzie was an average or better hitter from 1984-1992, but that ignores 6 bad offensive seasons before then (two of which were legitimately awful) and the bad seasons at the end.
The Raines/Rickey thing just doesn’t work for me. I don’t think Omar was overshadowed by Ozzie, nor was he the 2nd-best defensive SS of all time.
Omar and Ozzie overlapped by 6 years as regulars, 1989-94. (Ozzie was a bench player his last 2 years.) Their primes barely touched; Ozzie was already 34 when Omar broke in at age 22.
And I don’t see how Ozzie kept Omar from getting deserved recognition. Omar won his first Gold Glove in his 5th year — the year after he first led his league in TZR and fielding %, and the only year he led in DPs. That’s a perfectly normal pattern for Gold Glove voting, which tends to lag a bit behind performance.
Omar won 9 straight Gold Gloves, and 2 more later on (age 38-39). Whatever recognition was due him for defense, he got it. Considering that he led his league in TZR just 3 times, DPs once, and never in range factor per game or total assists, we might guess he got more than his due.
And since we know that Gold Gloves aren’t a reliable proof of excellence, what’s the evidence that Omar is the 2nd-best glove SS of all time? He’s #1 in games there, but 5th in TZR (Ozzie, Belanger, Ripken, Aparicio). He’s #72 in range factor per 9 innings, though cross-era comparisons aren’t quite fair in that stat. He is #1 in DPs, but as mentioned, he led his league once there, and was never even 2nd otherwise — isn’t that what they call a “compiler”?
As for the eye test, of the guys I saw play, I’ll take Belanger (I’m that old) and Ripken over Omar.
I agree with this but dang did “I love watching him play”. During those rough 2006-2008 Giants seasons one of my absolute favorite thing about going to games was seeing Viz take infield between innings. His grace was hypnotic.
I’m admittedly a big hall guy, but I don’t have a problem with “compiling” being a legitimate path to the hall, and I don’t see it as the pejorative that it’s often used as.
Even though I’m an Orioles fan, it doesn’t offend me that Mike Mussina is not in the Hall of Fame. I recognize from an accumulated numbers standpoint that he should definitely be in, but it’s harder to appreciate steady value over a very long period than someone with a truly elite peak. To indulge a really bad analogy, I’m guessing that a lot more people own landscapes of mountains than mesas. Mussina’s value derives from being very good but not elite for a long period of time. There’s no question that he was incredibly valuable to the Orioles and Yankees, but I can understand why voters have difficulty seeing him in the same class as Pedro and Maddux.
Actually, voters don’t seem to be too keen on starting pitchers in general, especially before the last couple of years. Between 2000 and 2013, Bert Blyleven was the only major league starting pitcher to get in. Mussina’s case will probably play out a lot like his, with increasing vote totals over time before eventual inclusion.
Mussina had 7 years in a row of 5-7 WAR. That’s a pretty fantastic peak. He hit 5-7 WAR in 8 out of 9 years in a row, with the lone other year being 4.5. He also led the AL in WAR during one of those seasons, and should have won at least 1 Cy Young.
He’s a victim of the idea that W/L record actually mattered. Had he had the same career now, he’d be appreciated a hell of a lot more.
And yes, there’s more to it than WAR, but Mussina had a pretty amazing peak.
Moose also won 20 his last year. How many compilers go out like that?
Mussina’s best season does not rank among the best 100 pitching WAR seasons since 1969. It’s also worth analyzing the nature of that WAR. Clayton Kershaw just posted a 6.5 WAR season by being ridiculously dominant over 149 innings whereas Mussina’s 5-7 WAR seasons were a result of pitching a high volume of innings at a high quality but clearly not dominant level. It’s not the W/L record that has kept him out of the Hall, it’s that he was never considered “dominant” and was never viewed as the best pitcher in his league.
Many current HOF pitchers would be kicked out by your standard of “was never viewed as the best pitcher in his league.”
There are 50 HOF starting pitchers who debuted since 1901. Let’s sort them by number of 7-WAR seasons:
— 25 had 3 or more 7-WAR seasons
— 6 had exactly 2 such years (same as Mussina).
— 10 had 1 such year.
— 9 had no such years.
So, 19 HOF starters had fewer 7-WAR years than Mussina.
How many of them were ever viewed as the best in their league? I don’t mean viewed as having had the best season, or winning a CYA / MVP; I mean, at any given time, would most reasonable folks have taken him #1 in a draft of all league pitchers? These are my opinions:
First, those with one 7-WAR year:
— Dizzy: Yes.
— Drysdale: Yes, very briefly.
— Catfish: Probably.
— Wynn: Maybe.
— Grimes: Maybe.
— Smoltz: No. Any reasonable person would prefer Maddux during Smoltz’s prime years.
— Glavine: No. Maddux again.
— Lyons: No.
— Joss: No.
— Pennock: No.
Those with no 7-WAR year:
— Ford: Yes.
— Lemon: No. Never close to an MVP, never led in pitcher WAR, and there was always a Feller or a Ford viewed as better.
— Rixey: No. He tied for the WAR lead in 1925, but Dazzy Vance and Dolf Luque were more respected; both got MVP votes that year, but not Rixey.
— Marquard: No. Anyone would have preferred Matty or Ol’ Pete during Marquard’s prime.
— Sutton: No.
— Ruffing: No.
— Haines: No.
— Hoyt: No.
— Bender: No.
So I’ve got 13 modern HOF starters with *both* fewer 7-WAR years than Mussina, *and* an unequivocal “No” to the question of “were they ever thought best in their league?”
Do you want to boot at least a quarter of all modern HOF starting pitchers? Or would you disagree with my “yes/no” assessments?
Mussina had zero 7 WAR seasons, not two: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=837&position=P And to be clear, I am not saying that Mussina doesn’t belong in the Hall of Fame. What I am saying is that I understand why voters haven’t put him in yet, and that I don’t find their reasoning to be egregious.
Ah, you meant Fangraphs WAR. I’m a B-R guy — I believe in crediting pitchers for what happened, not what *should* have happened. 🙂
Mussina’s real issue was pitching in the AL East when other teams were dominant at the height of the steroid era. Consider – Mussina pitched 18 seasons, 1991-2008, and a team from Mussina’s division won the World Series a whopping EIGHT times in those 18 seasons. Toronto in 1992/1993, New York in 1996, 1998/1999/2000 and Boston in 2004/2007. The idea that Mussina wasn’t elite is preposterous. Even the outdated BBWAA of the 1990s and 2000s agreed Mussina was elite – he was top-6 in the Cy Young voting nine times in his career. He finished 2, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6 and 6. In pitcher bWAR he’s 24th all-time. In pitcher fWAR he’s I believe 20th (maybe 17th, I get his and Schilling’s ranking mixed up) all-time. Strikeouts? 19th all-time. Wins, if you like that? 33rd all-time. JAWS using bWAR? 28th all-time, and that incorporates a seven-year peak.
BB-ref’s other unscientific methods place Mussina in a nice light too; he’s above your typical HoFer in their HOF Monitor, Gray Ink & HOF Standards tests, too, though those are becoming more and more outdated and aren’t extremely indicative of actual baseball talent, or even the current electorate.
It’s not like he bombed in the playoffs either, lowering his ERA to 3.42 in October over 140 IP with more K than innings, something he didn’t do in the regular season.
He’s not Pedro, he’s not Maddux, or Randy Johnson or Clemens, but he’s sure as heck in the same class as Smoltz or Glavine or anyone else from his era. He’s a WAAAAAAAAAAAAY better pitcher than Jack Morris, who actually had a higher raw ERA, fewer wins, fewer K despite not pitching in the AL East in the steroid era.
Totally agree. Mussina is in that 2nd tier of Hall of Fame pitchers for me. Well behind the R.Johnson//W. Johnson/Pedro/Maddux/Clemens/Grove/Matthewson type elites and toward the bottom of the Alexander/Gibson/Koufax group. Solidly top 30 pitcher of all time, in my mind. I’d put Schilling in that same group.
I’m confused as to why you think those numbers mean he was elite rather than suggesting the opposite. He was never considered the best pitcher in his league, and only once was he considered among the three best pitchers in his league. He was usually in that 4th to 6th range, which is very good but not elite.
Mussina was better than Glavine, but are you telling me that you have no doubt that Glavine was a Hall of Fame pitcher? I think Glavine only made it because of his association with Maddux. As for Smoltz, his best season was significantly superior to any of Mussina’s and their career WAR is just about equal despite Smoltz spending four seasons as a reliever. Mussina was very good for a long period of time, but voters have been lukewarm because he never had that singularly dominant season.
As a Giants fan, I loved Vizquel. He just didn’t hit enough to be in the HOF. Raines brought a complete game. Mazeroski is a better comp. But Omar wasn’t as good as Maz.
The inclusion of Ozzie Smith in the league raises the bar slightly when calculating Vizquel’s WAR, correct? I’m curious if you replaced Ozzie with league average SS production would that move the needle at all? Doubt that it would, but I’m curious.
Not saying I’m pro or con HOF voting for Vizquel or Mussina, but…
I’m not sure that comparing either to the best ever at their position or even the best of their contemporaries is exactly the fairest way to judge their HOF merits.
Wouldn’t a comparison to the existing HOF players at their position be a bit more reasonable? Say you look at the median (or average) performance of the players inducted at their position and see how they rate against that historical yardstick.
There is still going to be room for a judgment call but if the player is above the HOF standard for their position you wouldn’t be lowering the bar for admission and if he is below you either make a non-performance based case based on historical or off-the-field reasons, or you vote against.
A test like that takes you away from “the best pitcher of the decade” or “he was no Chipper Jones” arguments and puts the player within the context of the Hall Roster.
Just my $0.02.
No, because the “if one, then the other” argument only compounds other bad picks.
I think the key is “median (or average)” in fj’s comment, which I happen to agree with. In other words, if you vote in guys who would be average or above average members of the Hall, you can’t dilute.
Although comparisons to the worst Hall of Famers is always fun just to point out the absurdity.
‘See you later, Wally; I’m going on to bigger and better things,’ — Lindor’s goodbye sure sounds like it was supposed to be a parting burn on his old team and its manager.
All depends on exactly how he said it. Wallace’s earlier comments make believe that wasn’t the case.
On the HoF stuff: If you get your ballot in 2021, it’s very likely that that ballot will have Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Curt Schilling, Mike Mussina, Jeff Kent, Gary Sheffield, Billy Wagner, Scott Rolen, Andruw Jones, Manny Ramirez, Todd Helton, Andy Pettitte, maybe Bobby Abreu, likely Vizquel, and the first-timers of that season – Hudson, Buehrle, Hunter, A-Ram, none of whom have a compelling Hall case. If Roy Halladay doesn’t get in quickly, you’ll have him, too. I really don’t think Vizquel is among the top ten names on that ballot, and I’m probably being optimistic here. I’m assuming that Sosa falls off, Hoffman gets in, Vlad gets in, I-Rod gets in, Chipper gets in, Thome gets in, Johan falls off, Berkman falls off, Oswalt falls off, Mariano gets in and Jeter gets in, not all of which is a lock to happen. I think Vizquel is less deserving than almost every name above – all of them except the new-in-2021 quartet, and maybe the quintet of Berkman, Oswalt, Johan, Abreu and Pettitte. IMO, Helton, Mussina, Schilling, Halladay, Clemens, Bonds, Manny, Rolen, Andruw Jones, Sheffield, Kent, Wagner is twelve clearly superior players.
On Mussina, I feel he’s a clear-cut top-30 pitcher ever, and a definite HoFer. I won’t count the pre-1900 pitchers, but from 1900 on, you’ve got Walter J, Mathewson, Grove, Alexander, Plank, Feller, Roberts, Gibson, Marichal, Schilling, Brown, Pedro, Randy Johnson, Clemens, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Niekro, Perry, Ryan, Sutton, Blyleven, Seaver, Carlton, Drysdale, Koufax, Spahn, Cy Young, Jenkins, Hubbell, Ford, Halladay and probably some I’m forgetting, and Mussina fits in well in the back-end of this group of clear-cut HoF pitchers. He’s top-20 all-time in fWAR among pitchers. Top-20.
Javier Vazquez’ omission is really only egregrious when guys like Arthur Rhodes, Freddy Sanchez and Matt Stairs make the ballot. Vazquez got a second-place CY vote, has 50+ fWAR, and ranks 30th all-time in strikeouts as a pitcher. Can you imagine if the guy ranked 30th all-time in HR – currently a tie between Stargell and Musial – didn’t make the ballot? I feel like Vazquez’ omission would be analogous to Paul Konerko or Adam Dunn not making the Hall of Fame ballot, which I can’t imagine ever happening under the current system, even if they’re clearly non-HoF players.
Posada will likely still be on the ballot as well (roughly comparable to Vizquel).
Otherwise, I agree with your comment. Vizquel is basically like Dave Concepcion – a solid complimentary player on some great teams, but not one of the main drivers of his team’s success.
Omar Vizquel played with such smooth and uncanny ability, the closest comparison I can think of is Bobby Orr of the late 60’s Boston Bruins. As measured by statistics, perhaps there is an argument he does not make the cut, but from the standpoint of baseball as sport and entertainment, virtually every discussion of who is the greatest defender of all time – at the most critical position on the diamond – concludes Omar Vizquel is No. 1.
Ozzie Smith would still win that argument, and I have enjoyed Andrelton more in that regard than Vizquel as well (though, obviously Andrelton’s run will have to go for many more years.
The Javier Vazquez thing bugs me. It seems like a good chunk (maybe 10%) of the voters either don’t take it seriously, or are just unabashed homers. In either case, they make lousy voters for the HOF because they dilute the vote by purposefully ignoring deserving great players and then justifying it with logic like “other people will vote for him”.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/bill-madden-not-vote-mike-piazza-article-1.2067912
For those that doubt my 10% estimate in the 2016 voting, please note that Eckstein, Garret Anderson, Jason Kendall, Jim Edmonds, Garciaparra, and Mike Sweeney all got votes. So people that SUPPOSEDLY take HOF voting seriously cast votes for players that rate from quite good to WTF!?!
https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=F2E5D8FC5199DFAF!7156&ithint=file%2cxlsx&app=Excel&authkey=!AC7uZHAmcVGWgwE
Since when did voting for Jim Edmonds rate as a “homer” pick? 65fWAR, 60bWAR makes him entirely reasonable to consider.
Fantastic defender in in an up the middle position. Nearly 400 HR’s, 8 seasons of 5+ fWAR. The guy was really, really good. Not saying that he’s a slam dunk for the HoF but he deserves significant consideration.
He had a good career, but he’s clearly not worthy of a plaque in Cooperstown. Every year, a scribe or two tosses a bone to a player of a this ilk, and he’s criticized for doing so. Nothing against Vizquel, but the fewer non-deserving players on the ballot, the better.
If WAR is the standard, then Javier Vasquez should absolutely be on the ballot, even if there’s no real chance he gets in.
This column is an absolute gem! Thanks, as always!