Taking the Athletics’ Plan to the Mets

You get a little more time to read in the offseason. Yesterday, I was reading some of the entries to Amazin’ Avenue’s classic AAOP competition, in which readers submit their offseason plan. And then, when Farhan Zaidi was hired by the Dodgers, I watched this video of Zaidi in 2013 at the Sloan Analytics conference. Then some synapses fired: considering Sandy Alderson’s roots, and the current financial state of the Mets ownership, doesn’t it make sense for the Mets to act just a little bit like the Athletics?

What would that look like, this offseason?

For whatever reason, it looks like the Mets are done pretending that free agents are a big part of the offseason plan. Since they are going to act a little bit like a smaller market team, let’s look at the Athletics as a model and, in particular, use some of the hints we’ve seen from their leadership to guide our offseason plan for the Mets.

From Zaidi:

“One way is to add at the top of the roster with stars, which for us [in Oakland] just isn’t an affordable strategy. The other way is to manage from the bottom and take players who are liabilities – even small liabilities – and say what does it do to the collective team at the end of 162 games if we can shave some of this off the bottom in terms of productivity. Whether it’s a backup catcher, or a utility infielder or the ninth or 10th bullpen arm you have who will be up and down all year. Really optimizing those positions for us became an important part about building a competitive team.”

This is something Dave Cameron has written about before, that the Athletics have built success with impressive depth. And when your general manager says that no free agent that costs a pick is coming, then you really want to look at depth pieces.

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Of course, figuring out how to improve the team first requires projecting a roster. But we have the tools to do so at our disposal, and the projections to see where the weak links are. So let’s try to describe the team as it stands right now, with the extra up-and-down men included. Arbitration salaries come from MLBTradeRumors, and projected wins come from Steamer on this site.

P / Player Proj WAR $   P / Player Proj WAR $
C Travis d’Arnaud 2.8 0.5   SP Matt Harvey 2.9 0.5
C Anthony Recker 0.2 0.5   SP Jake deGrom 1.1 0.5
1B Lucas Duda 1.8 4.3   SP Zack Wheeler 1.3 0.5
2B Daniel Murphy 1.5 8.3   SP Jon Niese 0.9 7.1
SS Wilmer Flores 2.0 0.5   SP Bartolo Colon 0.9 11.0
3B David Wright 4.2 20.0   SP Dillon Gee 0.2 5.1
LF Matt den Dekker -0.1 0.5   SPRP Carlos Torres 0.1 0.5
CF Juan Lagares 2.9 0.5   RP Jenrry Mejia 0.3 3.1
RF Curtis Granderson 1.4 16.0   RP Bobby Parnell 0.1 3.7
OF Eric Young, JR 0.3 2.3   RP Jeurys Familia 0.1 0.5
OF Eric Campbell 0.0  0.5   RP Gonzalez Germen -0.2 0.5
INF Dilson Herrera 0.1 0.5   RP Josh Edgin -0.2 0.5
INF Ruben Tejada 0.6 1.7     7.5 33.5
  17.7 56.1        
U/D Cesar Puello       U/D Rafael Montero
U/D Matt Reynolds       U/D Vic Black
U/D Kirk Nieuwenhuis       U/D Noah Syndergaard

So right now, we’ve got a team projected for 73 wins that’ll cost $89.6 million. Considering they cut payroll down under ninety million last year, it’s a good bet that any moves they make will be salary neutral this year.

It’s tempting to look at the pitching side of the ledger, considering the low WAR totals, but that might be a miss because of a number that’s not listed there: age. If you take Bartolo Colon out of the pitching staff, you barely lose a win, and your average age is 27 years old. Most likely, Wheeler, Harvey, Montero and Syndergaard have better days in front of them. And personally, I’m convinced that we missed something on deGrom and that we shouldn’t project him so low in the future.

But, if you believe the projections, left field and the backup outfield positions are the problem. Perhaps the lefty reliever will be a problem, too. Let’s fix these cheaply.

1) Trade Eric Young, Jr. for anything you can get.
Age says that the 29-year-old is not likely to get better, and his career defensive stats suggest that more time in the field is only going to expose his problems further. He doesn’t walk, he doesn’t have any power, his glove isn’t great… You might be able to sell a team on a switch-hitting backup outfielder with speed, though. Maybe a team like the Angels, who just lost J.B. Shuck to the waiver wire. If nobody wants him in November, don’t tender him a contract. This will net the Mets 2.3 million dollars in savings while only costing them a third of a win.

2) Invite Corey Hart, Ryan Ludwick, and Jonny Gomes to camp. Offer any of them $3m if you like them better than the rest (and they take it).
These three guys are all coming off of sub-replacement seasons and are in their mid-thirties, so it’s plausible that they’ll have to come to camp without major league deals. The Mets, like last year’s Orioles, can offer them more playing time and a chance to resurrect their careers for one more pay day. Only Hart is projected to be better than Young, but they do address one concern that could make the rest of this team better: they have right-handed power. Between the winner of this scrum and Campbell, the team might be able to squeeze more than two wins out of first base and left field, where the lefty starters have demonstrated platoon weaknesses. Righty Cesar Puello represents the backup plan, and his righty bat and toolsy skillset makes Young as expendable as the presence of these righty power bats does.

3) Invite Phil Coke, Joe Beimel, Scott Downs, and Josh Outman to camp.
Randy Choate has signed three major league contracts for less than $1 million each. He’s pitched to a 2.55 FIP against lefties and has never been below replacement. This isn’t saying that Josh Edgin is bad, it’s saying that as it’s currently projected, you might be able to squeeze as much as a half win out of this transaction. If one of the lefties comes to camp and impresses, you can easily send Edgin. If Edgin and one of these guys impresses, make room for both. Play the up and down game with a lefty reliever. Make the most out of your roster slots.

4) Offer Bobby Parnell a two-year, $5m contract.
He’s slated to get almost four million this year, but had surgery in April last season and is no lock to make the Opening Day roster. Offer him security in 2016 in exchange for $1.2 million this year, and he may bite.

If everything goes right with these moves, you might squeak the two extra wins out of your roster that Zaidi references when he says that a sabermetrically-inclined front office can get to 75 wins without too much of a problem. You’d also net a couple million in savings, which might come in handy in phase two.

A second aspect of the Athletics philosophy concerns controlling assets. Seemingly every winter, he trades away a player that is approaching free agency for a few players that are further away. If you look at 2016, you’ll see the Mets have been working with this procedure for a while — only Bobby Parnell, Bartolo Colon, and Daniel Murphy are set to become free agents at the end of the season. One is injured, one is over forty, and the other will be shopped all winter long. Ok, they’ll shop the pitcher too.

5) Offer the Red Sox Bartolo Colon and Daniel Murphy for Shane Victorino or prospects you like. Offer the Dodgers Bartolo Colon for Andre Ethier and $34m. If these fail, offer Colon to anyone that will take the money on his contract for any prospects whatsoever.
The Colon/Murphy package only offers about five million dollars in projected surplus value, so it’s not going to net a Jason Heyward or Justin Upton or even a Yoenis Cespedes, probably. And though Victorino doesn’t fit the years of control aspect, he would be a two-win player signed for less than $15m next year, and he would fit the team’s needs. The team would save six million dollars too. They may have to add money to get prospects, but if they could save six-to-seven million off of the Bartolo Colon contract alone, we’d have close to $10 million to spend. Ethier is left-handed but probably more of a bat than den Dekker, and with $34m shaved off the $64m owed to him over the next three years, he’d be a better fit than Colon on this year’s team. Because if you split 200 innings between Noah Syndergaard and Rafael Montero, you’d get about a win (with upside). If all you get is a prospect and cost savings —

5b) Sign Nori Aoki for one year, $8m or two years, $16m.
Since you can get Colon’s production for $10m less from players under team control, use that free agency money to try and improve your biggest weakness: left field. By pushing den Dekker to a backup defensive outfielder, and inputting a corner outfielder that is projected for almost average work — do a simple MARCEL on Aoki and you get 1.5 wins, which is just below average but much better than the below replacement projection in LF currently — you’ll make the biggest splash the least amount of money. Dave Cameron already pointed out that Aoki is not that different from Nick Markakis, Aoki only made $1.5 million last year, and the world series wasn’t always so kind to his reputation. A few misplayed balls and some recency bias may make him seem like a worse defender than he is. Other names that could be signed here include Michael Morse (who might only give you half win) and the 39-year-old Torii Hunter, so this would be the best free agent fit.

And that’s about it. We’ve kept the payroll under $90 million, added some wins, worked around the edges, and traded some tradeable assets that aren’t under team control for much longer. If a team values Jon Niese despite the fact that he doesn’t really represent much surplus value on his contract, perhaps he goes instead of Colon, and perhaps the left field solution is more exciting and younger.

But we pushed this roster to 78 wins – 79 if you give the up/down guys a win — with reasonable versions of the moves listed above:

P / Player Proj WAR $   P / Player Proj WAR $
C Travis d’Arnaud 2.8 0.5   SP Matt Harvey 2.9 0.5
C Anthony Recker 0.2 0.5   SP Jake deGrom 1.1 0.5
1B Lucas Duda 1.8 4.3   SP Zack Wheeler 1.3 0.5
2B Daniel Murphy 1.5 8.3   SP Jon Niese 0.9 7.1
SS Wilmer Flores 2.0 0.5   SP Noah Syndergaard 1.0 0.5
3B David Wright 4.2 20   SP Dillon Gee 0.2 5.1
LF Nori Aoki 1.5 7.5   SPRP Rafael Montero 0.3 0.5
CF Juan Lagares 2.9 0.5   RP Jenrry Mejia 0.3 3.1
RF Curtis Granderson 1.4 16   RP Bobby Parnell 0.1 3.7
OF Matt den Dekker -0.1 0.5   RP Jeurys Familia 0.1 0.5
OF Corey Hart 1.0 3   RP Carlos Torres 0.1 0.5
INF Dilson Herrera 0.1 0.5   RP Joe Beimel 0.3 0.7
INF Ruben Tejada 0.6 1.7     9.1 22.1
  21 63.8        
U/D Cesar Puello       U/D Rafael Montero    
U/D Matt Reynolds       U/D Vic Black    
U/D Kirk Nieuwenhuis       U/D Josh Edgin    
        U/D Gabriel Ynoa    

Given that the Mets took the conservative plan with Matt Harvey and he won’t pitch competitively until more than 12 months after his surgery — those that take more time generally do better upon return — you could push Harvey’s projection without a complaint from me. Given the amount of development that changed deGrom substantially, and his age, you could push his projection to league average or beyond as well. With this sort of roster — and really, the left fielder can be anyone depending on how the league’s GMs evaluate Niese and Gee — it begins to look like a .500 team.

And though building a five hundred team doesn’t seem that exciting, it’s within earshot of 88 wins, and that can buy you the lottery ticket that is a wild card bid. As Dave Cameron pointed out earlier this offseason, mediocre is a lot sexier these days. In this case, it’s mediocre with an asterisk — a young pitching staff with good stuff, a good framing catcher with some offensive upside, a young cheap bullpen, a few minor league pieces that could work out, and three million dollars that could be used for to pay a deadline acquisition if the cookies crumble the right way.

Rinse, repeat, and work the edges again for the 2016 season — your roster will mostly be the same, and maybe a better year bought you some flexibility or new, interesting minor leaguers. It’s not like Brandon Nimmo is chopped liver.





With a phone full of pictures of pitchers' fingers, strange beers, and his two toddler sons, Eno Sarris can be found at the ballpark or a brewery most days. Read him here, writing about the A's or Giants at The Athletic, or about beer at October. Follow him on Twitter @enosarris if you can handle the sandwiches and inanity.

64 Comments
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jcutiger
11 years ago

As a Mets fan, this article has made me depressed. We’re on the cusp of something good, but not being able to add to the payroll is going hold us back.

tz
11 years ago
Reply to  jcutiger

As a Red Sox fan, I get worried when we throw $70 million at an unproven outfielder for an already crowded outfield, and I get even more worried about spending nine figures on a long-term contract for a decent but not HOF level starting pitcher.

In other words, it’s not a bad time to be looking at payroll limitations, cause the inflation this year looks awful. Best for the Mets to develop prospects and try to lock some of them up like the Braves have done.

jcutiger
11 years ago
Reply to  tz

Do we have money to lock up any of our young players? Doubtful. We probably can’t take on a contract reasonable contract like Cargo’s or him JUpton’s.

Mookie Wilson
11 years ago
Reply to  jcutiger

The Mets just spent about $95 million on offseason contracts last year, and the previous offseason retained their homegrown star for a nine-figure contract.

Why am I supposed to believe they’re penniless and all their stars are going to walk, again?

Maniel Durphy
11 years ago
Reply to  jcutiger

I’d say it’s just depressing that avenues for improvement are perceived to be this pathetic. In year 5 of the Alderson FO and we’re supposed to advocate for C & D level FAs, and trading for salary dump players or players coming off of surgeries..? good lord.

jcutiger
11 years ago
Reply to  Maniel Durphy

You stated the reason for my depression better. I hope for some out of the box thinking (Puig?) from the FO, but not counting on it.

Za
11 years ago
Reply to  jcutiger

I guess you missed the whole point of the article, then.

walt526
11 years ago

Why not look to move Gee? In your proposed roster, they have 6 SP plus Montero. Gee isn’t much of an asset, but some team might be willing to give up something of modest value for a proven replacement-level pitcher making <$5M.

Brian Commer
11 years ago

Not a bad plan, but it sort of spins the team’s wheels, no? And, if the Mets could sign Aoki for 2/16, why wouldn’t the Royals resign him? Or, so other team. At that price, just about anyone can afford him.

I don’t see how trading Murphy in a Victorino deal helps the team. They virtually are the same hitter, except Victorino is another year removed from his prime, and Murphy is still in his. And, where would the Red Sox play Murphy? He doesn’t have a position with that team.

Why would Parnell sign for 2/5, when he’s guaranteed nearly 4 for 2016? Subtract agent fees and taxes, and the difference in money probably isn’t significant enough to sway him, particularly if he believes he’s healthy. 2 for 6 or 7 might do it, but would the Mets want to take that risk? He’s 33 and coming off a terrible year, so there would be some risk for the Mets, but it’s reasonable to hope he has another good season or two in him.

However, he has three years remaining on his deal at $17 mil per. rading Colon for him reduces some of the cost for this year, and the Dodgers will need a replacement for Josh Beckett, so there is a fit. But, how much more of Ethier’s contract will the Dodgers eat.

Because here is the elephant in the room: The Wilpons, according to a recent SI report, have 1/2 billion dollars in notes due next year.

One-half billion. It sounds like they will be scrambling financially for some time to come. They might not have the resources of even the As.

Andre Ethier? Excellent suggestion. He’s almost certainly available, and the Dodgers probably would give him away in a salary dump.

vivalajeter
11 years ago
Reply to  Brian Commer

Regarding Murphy, I would assume he’d play 3B for the Red Sox.

Brian Commer
11 years ago

Correction. This comment: He’s 33 and coming off a terrible year, so there would be some risk for the Mets, but it’s reasonable to hope he has another good season or two in him.

…belong at the end of my assessment of a deal for Ethier. Clearly, I wasn’t referring to the younger Bobby Parnell.

Brian Commer
11 years ago

Wow, that whole section got scrambled, so I’ll reinsert the entire section in its intended order:

Andre Ethier? Excellent suggestion. He’s almost certainly available, and the Dodgers probably would give him away in a salary dump.

He’s 33 and coming off a terrible year, so there would be some risk for the Mets, but it’s reasonable to hope he has another good season or two in him.

However, he has three years remaining on his deal at $17 mil per. rading Colon for him reduces some of the cost for this year, and the Dodgers will need a replacement for Josh Beckett, so there is a fit. But, how much more of Ethier’s contract will the Dodgers eat.

Because here is the elephant in the room: The Wilpons, according to a recent SI report, have 1/2 billion dollars in notes due next year.

One-half billion. It sounds like they will be scrambling financially for some time to come. They might not have the resources of even the As.

Sam
11 years ago
Reply to  Brian Commer

Where’s your proof that the Mets owe five hundred billion dollars to anybody? I can’t find this Sports Illustrated article anywhere.

vivalajeter
11 years ago
Reply to  Sam

I think I read that too. Maybe not half a billion bucks, but a lot of money nonetheless. It’s not really an elephant in the room though, since it’s not something that they’re actually going to pay in the near future. All they have to do is re-finance the debt.

Matt
11 years ago
Reply to  Sam

It’s been widely reported in a number of outlets. This is likely the article he referenced – this summer’s loan is regarding their stake in their RSN, which is the only profitable part of the franchise as of last offseason.

http://www.si.com/mlb/2014/09/18/bud-selig-jeff-wilpon-new-york-mets-lawsuit

Some Dude
11 years ago

As a Red Sox fan, I think it’s a fat chance we’d trade for a guy who effectively quit the team in 2008 for “personal reasons” during a playoff push (then lost in the ALCS in 7).

J Black
11 years ago

Don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining, Sandy! GO OUT AND GET ME A REAL SHORTSTOP AND A REAL LEFT FIELDER.

Za
11 years ago
Reply to  J Black

I think you mean right fielder. And I’m perfectly happy with Wilmer at SS.

Typical WFAN caller
11 years ago

Just offer the Rockies Granderson, Niese, Gee, Colon, Tejada, Den Dekker, and Eric Young for Tulo and Carlos Gonzalez plus half their salaries to keep the money down. I mean that’s half a roster we’re giving up, but you got to get bold to make these kinds of moves.

Mets Fan
11 years ago

I disagree, Niese and Gee are way too valuable to give up together. The Rockies should just trade Tulo and CarGo for salary relief since they’re always injured anyway.

Vlad
11 years ago

By juicing up Harvey/Wheeler/deGrom’s WAR projections, you’ve basically created a new win total to suit your narrative.

Without adding 2.7 wins from those 3, the Mets would be at 78 wins at the end of this article. One could easily downgrade players like Flores, Lagares, or even David Wright based off Steamer’s projections.

Which are typically garbage anyway.

Jason B
11 years ago
Reply to  Eno Sarris

I agree with the cruz of his point, though; it seems disingenuous to add wins for the second scenario (after trades n’ such) and not in the former scenario (looking at the current roster). Either used the juiced numbers in both scenarios or leave the Steamer projections as-is, I think is a fairer approach.

Otherwise, I can get any roster to 60 wins or 100 wins with some good ol’ fashioned Steamer juicing!

Brian
11 years ago

Great, thoughtful analysis, Eno. Not sure I can recall a year where I thought the projections were so collectively wrong about the Mets.

Duda at 1.8, Murph at 1.5, DeGrom at 1.1, Lagares at 2.9, Wheeler at 1.3?

That’s 8.6 total. Last year those five players combined for 14.4 WAR (Wheeler 1.8, Duda 3.0, Murphy 2.8, Lagaes 3.8, DeGrom 3.0.)

None of those guys are old or scream serious regression candidate outside of perhaps DeGrom, who may come back to earth. Duda is sustainable, Murphy has been doing that for years, Wheeler might improve, and Lagares ought to give back some on defense but the hitting is slowly improving.

I guess what I’m saying it, wtf? If those 5 players, who combined for 14.4 WAR last year, don’t put up a collective 11 WAR at least in 2015 (excepting injury), I’ll eat my hat. I understand regression, but for whatever reason, I’m seeing too much of it here.

vivalajeter
11 years ago
Reply to  Brian

Yeah, that looked off to me as well. Out of the 4 top SP’s, I would be surprised if *any* of those 4 had trouble surpassing that projection, short of a Spring Training TJ surgery. And aside from when he was first learning 2B, Murphy has been a consistent ~3 WAR player – not sure why that would drop in half next year.

If the front office trusted Steamer, I think the suggestions might make sense. But I doubt they’d trust these projections – and they certainly won’t believe that their bullpen, which was fine once they went to the young guys, will be replacement level.

(And on a side note – if we did have complete faith in Steamer, then it wouldn’t really make sense to go after Gomes (0.0 WAR) or Ludwick (-0.2 WAR).

senor_mike
11 years ago
Reply to  Brian

I don’t understand the fWAR formula inside and out, but it always struck me as very strange that 2014 Mets pitching staff was last in the NL in fWAR (7.0), but 7th in both FIP (3.75) and xFIP (3.70). Nothing really jumps out in the rest of their peripherals or runs allowed totals either.

Something doesn’t smell right here (insert joke about Flushing Queens).

Matt
11 years ago
Reply to  senor_mike

The Mets’ pitching got seriously dinged in WAR calculations because of park adjustments and run environment. Citi field being such a pitchers park means that their numbers aren’t as impressive, and since runs are down across the board, what would have been great 5 years ago is now just merely “good”. Or so Dave Cameron told me in a chat a few months back…

Brian
11 years ago
Reply to  Matt

> what would have been great 5 years ago is now just merely “good”.

Not relative to other teams though. That’s why the 7th in FIP doesn’t jive with the last in WAR.

Senor_Met
11 years ago
Reply to  senor_mike

I’ve always thought that the park adjustments seem particularly harsh to the Mets pitchers. There’s no way our bullpen should have been as poorly ranked as it was. Obviously, they weren’t great, with a 3.84 FIP (23rd) but to be the only team with a negative WAR? And -1.6?

Also, are we related?

senor_mike
11 years ago
Reply to  Senor_Met

Dad!!!! I miss you, those cigarettes better have been amazing.

Matt, thanks for the feedback. Ok that makes sense, but if true the implication here is that the Mets had the least productive/talented/whatever pitching staff in the whole of the NL. Watching the Met staff all season, and how they stacked up against a lot of their competition, I find that extremely hard to believe. If feels like maybe the Park factor-ing is overpowering the WAR formula.

Maniel Durphy
11 years ago

Seriously if this is how low the expectations are for this FO, then there is basically no way they can fail or disappoint some people. OMG, if adding a bunch of mid-30’s aged retreads is what this FO does this winter then the road to relevancy will have gone way off the tracks. But let’s make sure to top the WAR/$ and bases per out leader boards. (face palm)

Perpetually Cynical Mets Fan
11 years ago
Reply to  Maniel Durphy

When your team is owned by a family either so dumb, or so crooked, as to invest with Bernie Madoff, this is what you get.

cmg8462
11 years ago

Hi Eno, great article. I just wanted to get your thoughts on if Sandy & the FO could actually pull off any of the above or the likelihood.

I generally like what they have done from a strategic perspective but the A’s seem so much more aggressive in the trade market and building on the periphery.

Maniel Durphy
11 years ago
Reply to  Eno Sarris

you mean RF.

stevenam
11 years ago
Reply to  Maniel Durphy

Agreed, ‘Durph. Granderson is no RF.

Perpetually Cynical Mets Fan
11 years ago
Reply to  Eno Sarris

What would the Mets have to throw in beyond Niese to get Victorino?

David G
11 years ago

I’d be very surprised if it took more than Niese. And I’m not sure if I were Sandy I’d take it.

RSquared
11 years ago

Sox would probably swap Cespedes for Niese and Murphy. Fills two holes (SP and 3B). They can use Nava and Craig in LF.
As for Victorino, I’m waiting for the “begin baseball activities” and “ready for spring training” stories. More likely he goes to extended SP and 20 game rehab with a mid-May return. Two years of back and leg injuries at 34 will require a long recovery, particularly for his style, which will be diminished.

Munchkin
11 years ago

If the Mets were to copy the Athletics, I would expect:
1)A lot of roster turnover (2B,SS,LF, all the bench, half the pen, 3 SP sold, bunch of ST invites, minor league FA, maybe even d’Arnaud traded).
2)A lot of mid level TRAIDs (no prospects for star, but solid ML for C+/B- prospects type trading, both ways)
3)Platoon galore
4)Hitters with flyball tendencies/lowball hitters
5)A lot of phone calls to the Phillies-type of organization, not as much to Friedman
6)75 more moneyball jokes (73 recycled, 2 new ones)

Patrick_Green
11 years ago

Interesting plan, Eno. But in your proposed Daniel Murphy/Bartolo Colon for Shane Victorino trade, one has to be cognizant of the fact that Boston has no room for Murphy to play unless they convert him to third base, a position he has logged just 361 innings in his career. Granted, putting Murphy anywhere in the field is no picnic, and really they would be acquiring him predominately for his slightly above-average offense and terrific base running.

Brian
11 years ago

I would like to see the Mets trade with the Twins for a couple of minor league catchers (since the Twins think Kurt Suzuki is their catcher for the future): Josmil Pinto: Plenty of power and can draw walks.
Mitch Garver: Another power bat who could eventually move to first base.

vivalajeter
11 years ago
Reply to  Brian

Are you suggesting that the Mets should be looking to trade for a catcher, even though their current catcher is a recent top prospect who seemed to finally break through last year, and one of their current top prospects is also a catcher? That doesn’t make sense to me. They have enough holes to fill, where it wouldn’t make sense to augment an organizational strength.

Matthew TobinMember since 2016
11 years ago

The sad thing is now is the time for the Mets to spend money. The Yankees are in a terrible place and if the Mets spent a little, they could make some fans in New York.

rusty
11 years ago
Reply to  Matthew Tobin

No one outside of New York cares about this.

vivalajeter
11 years ago
Reply to  rusty

You realize this article is about the Mets, right?

Mr Punch
11 years ago

The proposed Red Sox trade makes no sense at all for Boston, as several have noted. (1) The Sox don’t want Colon (again) – personal issues aside, they have plenty of not-very-good starters. (2) Murphy, as a 2B-OF, is possibly the most useless player imaginable for them. (3) They may well be eager to move Victorino, but they’re not going to do it while taking on a lot of additional salary.

Eno Sarris
11 years ago
Reply to  Mr Punch

a) I proposed other deals so it’s really not that big a deal.
2) Murphy is a better fit at third base, where he spent most of his minor league career, and the Red Sox could use a third baseman perhaps.
iii) Even if the Mets swallow six million plus Victorino, Victorino would be a better fit for them. And I don’t think $6m in additional salary is a lot for Boston.

Steve
11 years ago

If the Mets are going to trade Murphy for an outfielder, why not Gerardo Parra? Or throw in big prospects and reel in Alex Gordon?

vivalajeter
11 years ago
Reply to  Steve

I like Parra as a bounceback candidate, but he was pretty bad last year. And in his one exceptional year (2013) was due to defensive value that was completely out of line with the rest of his career. I don’t think there’s enough upside there, as a below-average hitter with potentially solid defense.

His reasonable upside seems to be somewhere in the 3 WAR range, which is a level that Murphy has been at for most of the last 4 years.

Noah Baron
11 years ago

There is one key difference between the A’s and the Mets: The Mets have a huge market and the A’s don’t. The Mets should start making a profit in 2015 with their low payroll and young talent. Once the Mets start winning games, the revenue will skyrocket and the Mets will once again have money to spend on free agents.

I also would not put very much stock into Steamer Projections. If you use somewhat more advanced statistics, like Tango’s Batted Ball FIP, and regress pop up and line drive rates, you get a much better picture of pitching than any of the projection systems out there. I’d expect huge years out of Harvey, Wheeler, and deGrom, and am not at all worried about Steamer’s ridiculously pessimistic projections for the Mets’ big 3. I also expect Syndergaard to be a 3+ WAR pitcher upon arrival.

I think it would be smart for the Mets to trade some combination of Niese, Murphy, Plawecki, Matz, and Conforto for a Heyward/ Cargo type talent.

Noah Baron
11 years ago
Reply to  Noah Baron

At Shortstop, I’d probably invest in a short term contract for Stephen Drew to platoon with Tejada while keeping my ears open on Tulowitzki.

vivalajeter
11 years ago
Reply to  Noah Baron

Do you think Tejada’s a better bat than Flores? There’s not much data, but the defensive metrics indicated that Flores was at least able to hold his own in the field last year, and he has much more hitting upside than Tejada. He should also be a couple million dollars cheaper.

If they go with Tejada, I don’t really see much upside other than decent defense and a few walks. If they go with Flores, he might fall flat on his face in the field, but the upside is that he continues to hold his own defensively and he hits much better than the average SS. In that case, they’d have a decent SS making little money for the next few years.

jon
11 years ago

Why did den Dekker and D. Herrera add 0.5 WAR each in the new scenerio Mets as well? I think the cheapest solution of all is just to ask everyone on the roster to gain a 1/2 win because they should be better then their projection and then all of a sudden you’re really cooking!!

Noah Baron
11 years ago
Reply to  Eno Sarris

It’s better if you just use intuitive projections than Steamer anyway. I don’t think anyone expects Wheeler and deGrom to post 1 WAR seasons in 2015.

Shankbone
11 years ago

You’re not going to get 3, much less 6 big league vets into a camp for an audition. Nice thought though. You have to romance 1 of each, and take your chances. I’d go with Gomes and Coke!

Mets are going to have to trade one of their young pitchers for something. Its hard to see what they really need though. I think just signing Aoki and leaving everything else alone until the trade deadline might be best. No team is going to give you much for Murphy. Its best to keep him and ride the hand out. Or go big and trade a pitcher to the Red Sox for Cespedes. But they won’t want Colon. No way, no how. Or Murphy. And the Mets don’t really want Victorino.

Josh
11 years ago
Reply to  Eno Sarris

Eno, I thought you did a great job on this article. It’s clear you put time and thought into it.

Gaz
11 years ago

If the Mets have no money as they claim, they should pack it up and become the astros or the cubs. tank, use their 1st round picks on high ceiling hitters and fully rebuild. Going the route of the As would require shrewdness that their front office just does not have. Instead they have become the Rockies, and the Phillies. Any type of change to the As or the Cubs model would have to begin with an overhaul from the top down. Im looking at you Wilpons. Now that Bud isnt there to protect his pals, it would be nice for Manfred to step in so that first shoe can drop.

vivalajeter
11 years ago
Reply to  Gaz

That doesn’t really make sense. If they took the Astros’ approach and got some elite first rounders, by the time they developed, the Mets’ young pitchers would either be gone, or at the very least they’d be expensive. Their best bet is to hope their young pitching pans out while they’re still cheap. If that happens, they won’t need the greatest offense. And given their market, it would really just require one playoff season to get the fans to show up to the park again. Once that happens, the budget will rise.

As for the Phillies, that’s pretty silly. Part of the Phillies’ problem is they have a bad farm system, and part is that they have some bad contracts. There’s really nothing they can do. In the Mets’ case, they have plenty of assets to trade if they wanted to start from scratch.

Gaz
11 years ago
Reply to  vivalajeter

point taken. i was saying that like the rocks and the phils they have become content signing the marlon byrds, morneaus, and cuddyers of the world. grandy and colon fit that mold. you have to be sharp to win with a low payroll and they havent proven that. If they refuse to rebuild, then now is the time to get a tulo, castro or the like for ss. deal some of that young pitching, get out from under colon. deal murphy. shake things up. or continue to accept mediocrity. rumors had them on cuddyer which baffles me. if he somehow rejects the QO i can see them chasing him. If not theyre still plenty of 35 yr old out there for the taking as they operate with seemingly no plan.