The Blue Jays’ Upcoming Quandary
It’s early. Like, early early. The Cincinnati Reds and Arizona Diamondbacks are tied for the best record in the National League. The Angels’ best hitter has been Yunel Escobar, not Mike Trout. Mike Leake has been among the most dominant starting pitchers in baseball. Because most teams have played eight or nine games, the standings and the leaderboards look weird. They’ll look more normal in the not-too-distant future.
But for all the wisdom that’s contained within calls not to overreact to early-season performance, the reality is that games in April count, too, and if a team digs a deep enough hole, it stops being early pretty quickly. The Blue Jays, who lost again last night to fall to 1-7, aren’t quite there yet, but they’ve certainly cleared a path towards a potentially very difficult set of decisions this summer.
Coming into the year, our forecasts had the Blue Jays projected for 86 wins, and had them solidly as the fourth-best team in the American League. Not a for-sure contender, but the safest bet among the Wild Card contenders. Our staff saw it similarly, with 33 of 54 writers putting them in the postseason.
A week and a half into the season, our forecasts now expect the Blue Jays to finish 81-81. Here’s how their daily playoff odds have moved since Opening Day.

From 52% to 26% in a eight games isn’t easy to pull off, but the Jays combined a lot of losses with occupying the perfect spot on the expected win curve where each additional loss moves the needle the most. We now have the Jays projected to finish the year with the seventh-best record in the AL, and only a half-game ahead of the team with the 10th-best projected record.
Even if you’re not adjusting their expected future winning percentage down in a massive way based on what has happened so far — and we’re not, as our rest-of-season projection has them playing like an 84-win team over the next 154 games — the early struggles have just made the task more difficult. If you think you have to win 90 games to grab a Wild Card spot, the Blue Jays now have to win 89 out of their remaining 154, which translates to a .578 winning percentage over the rest of the season. The Cubs and Dodgers are the only two teams we have forecast to play at that level. The Blue Jays are not the Cubs or the Dodgers.
And the problem with lousy starts for teams like the Blue Jays is that they don’t really have 154 games to make up all this ground. They really only have about 100 games to put themselves back into a strong playoff position, because come July, they’ll have to make a real buy-or-sell decision. Given this roster, holding everyone together and hoping things work out probably can’t be an option.
Jose Bautista is 36. J.A. Happ, Russell Martin, and Kendrys Morales are 34. Marco Estrada and Francisco Liriano are 33. Troy Tulowitzki is 32, and Josh Donaldson is 31. There are a few good young pitchers whom the team can see as their long-term core, but mostly, this team is old. If the Blue Jays aren’t sure they can make a run at a playoff spot this year, it’s incumbent upon the front office to try and turn some of these veterans with short-term value into younger pieces who could help the team in 2018 and beyond, because if they don’t add some more young talent to the mix, they’re in for some lean years in the future.
But the team is struggling right now because those veterans aren’t performing. Bautista and Martin have one extra-base hit apiece. Tulo has four extra-base hits, but only one single and two walks. Donaldson (199) and Morales (109) are the only two hitters on the team with a wRC+ over 100, and since Morales’s personal scoring position is halfway down the third-base line, his hits don’t lead to runs as often as wRC+ would suggest. The offense, as a whole, has a 58 wRC+; for comparison, Rey Ordonez has a career 54 wRC+.
The old pitchers aren’t helping out much, either. Between them, Estrada, Happ, and Liriano have given up 19 runs in 22 innings pitched. Basically every key veteran on this team, with the exception of Donaldson, has been a disaster so far.
If the Jays are going to get back into the race, it’s going to be because the old guys start playing like we expected them to play. These are some good hitters here — or at least some not-bad hitters — who are performing horribly, and that won’t last for much longer. But unless the team turns around quickly and dramatically, the Blue Jays are likely going to be faced with a tough fork in the road this summer.
If the old guys don’t turn things around enough, and the Jays are clearly out of the race by July, the decision would theoretically be easy: move short-term for long-term and prioritize the future. But in this scenario, the very players the team would likely be hoping to trade for value would be the guys who hadn’t performed well enough to keep them in the race. If the Jays are clearly dead and buried by July, it’s very unlikely that Bautista is hitting bombs, Tulo and Martin have bounced back, and Estrada, Happ, and Sanchez are throwing well enough to look like someone worth starting in October.
If most or all of those things happened, the Blue Jays would likely still be contenders themselves. But even that outcome doesn’t lead to an easy call. Let’s say the Jays play like we thought they’d play before the season started over the 98 games they have left in April, May, June, and July, winning 53% of their games before they had to make buy-or-sell decisions. That would put them at 52-46 over that stretch, and would give them a July 31st record of 53-53.
How much incentive would there be for the Jays to add to a .500 roster, with the most likely good outcome placing them in another winner-take-all Wild Card game, a contest that would be a coin flip at best, just to reach the division series? If you’re sitting at .500 on July 31st, it’s difficult to justify giving up significant future value for the hope of making your team better when you’re playing to get into a single game.
And hanging over all this is the Josh Donaldson factor. Donaldson remains an elite player, one of the very best performers in baseball, but he’s a free agent after 2018. If the team sells this summer, getting him to sign a long-term extension is probably out the window, as he’s unlikely going to want to end his career on a team that may need to shift towards a rebuild as soon as next year. And if you don’t think you can keep Donaldson past next year, then perhaps they shouldn’t keep him past July.
Because if this team isn’t good enough to win this year, it’s hard to see how they’d be good enough to win next year, when Martin and Tulowitzki are a year older, and Estrada, Liriano, and Bautista (if he opts out) hit free agency. There isn’t a clear wave of young talent coming to make up for the declining veterans, and with Donaldson due a monster raise in his final arbitration year, plus the necessity of arbitration raises for Roberto Osuna and Marcus Stroman, some of the $50 million or so coming off the books will have to be spent on the guys they already have. And even if the freed-up money gave them $40 million or so to spend next winter, I don’t know how you get a right fielder, a left fielder, a first baseman, two starting pitchers, and some bullpen depth for $40 million anymore.
So, from here, the Jays look like they’ll probably travel one of three paths.
1. Win a lot of games in a hurry, making this entire discussion moot, and making it clear that they’re contenders in 2017, incentivizing the front office to upgrade this roster and try and make a run this year.
2. Continue to struggle, fall way out of the race, and make it clear that it’s time for a rebuild, at which point the team probably has to confront the reality of potentially trading Josh Donaldson, since the aging veterans who helped them collapse likely won’t have a ton of trade value.
3. Meander to a .500-ish record at the deadline, leaving the team to risk pushing in to try and upgrade an okay-but-not-great roster to make a Wild Card game, to keep some decent trade chips past the deadline and potentially let them walk with minimal compensation if they leave as free agents, or to proactively sell while they still can, which could mean alienating fans who think there one more postseason run left in this roster.
Scenario 1 is clearly the most preferable. Win and these problems go away. But they’ll need to win a lot, and soon, to make that happen. In either Scenario 2 or 3, the Jays could be looking at a step back in 2018, which then puts pressure on the organization to make a decision on Josh Donaldson. If they’re convinced he’s not going to re-sign in Toronto, keeping him past this deadline could cost them a significantly valuable piece in trade, as teams will pay a lot more to get two postseason runs with Donaldson as opposed to just one. And if you’re trading Donaldson, you’re trading every veteran you get an offer on, because this team isn’t any good without their franchise third baseman.
It’s April 13. The Blue Jays don’t have to make any of these decisions right now. They have a few months to let the players dictate the path the organization will take. But by digging an early hole, the Blue Jays have set themselves up for a potential midseason fire sale. They still have plenty of time to turn things around, but if they’re limping into July as a .500 team, they’ll have to at least consider whether their window has already closed.
Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.
This makes me sad.
Not me.
Sincerely O’s fan.
Well played sir
The saving grace might be their elite starting pitching. As a group it might be best in baseball?
Wat
Or the 16th best…
Maybe you meant “elite” compared to the general population? Which would be correct!
No, I think he meant the best in Canada.
Even if they outperfom their predictions, they’re still /maybe/ #5.
Agree with everything you said, Dave. Been a rough first week of baseball for this Jays fan.
The timing for such an article seems perfect. Get those hits from the charmin-esque portions of the Jays fan populous.
the Jays fan anthopopulous
Why wait till July to make moves? They can decide to add right now to improve their chances. Maybe Jose Abreu, Khris Davis or Chris Carter are available? David Robertson? That would add a win or two over Justin Smoak or Ezekiel Carrera. They can always sell in July.
How? It’s not like they have much in their farm system to trade, they are middle of the road at best right now.
Why not just add Free Agents like Pagan and Morneau. They’re likely upgrades over Smoak and Carrera too, but they wouldn’t cost prospects.
If you’re going to add Zombie Angel Pagan or the corpse of Justin Morneau, you may as well wait for Pompey to come off the DL and put him in LF, and call up Rowdy Tellez.
Huh, Zombie Angel. That’s a pretty cool baseball nickname.
Feels like a very similar article could be written about the 2-8 Mariners, with the added caveat that one of their best expected performers (Cano) is nearly untradeable and they have one young-ish star position player (Seager) who’s locked up for awhile.
Stay tuned!
Why not the Orioles and Rays as well? They’re projected at 81-81 too. What does the current record have to do with strategy for the future?
Because the Jays have already dug themselves a deep hole. If the O’s and Rays play to a .500 record, the Jays won’t catch them. And if they don’t make the playoffs, they’re better off rebuilding rather than holding onto their core for the sake of finishing 5 back as opposed to 15 back. They’re trending in the wrong direction, but it’s early, so the Jays do have time to turn it around.
Orioles are projected to win 83, Rays 82, Jays 81.
Jays are the oldest and projected the worst. I believe they also have a higher proportion of aging stars on near-expired contracts. The Machado situation is analogous to the Donaldson situation, but the rest isn’t.
Just for the record, Morales scored ALL THE WAY FROM FIRST BASE on a Tulo double the other day.
He did, and we’re proud of him. Don’t get too used to the idea though.
Pretty decent young, cost controlled core at key positions already in place (SP1, SP2, CL, 2B, CF). Moreover, some very underrated prospects who are closer than they are far (Tellez 1b, Urena SS, SRF SP, Gurriel Jr. OF/SS/3B/2B, Alford CF, Pompey CF). I’m not sure I subscribe to the “There isn’t a clear wave of young talent coming to make up for the declining veterans” narrative.
If you describe the bulk of your team’s top prospects as underrated, it’s more likely that you’re overrating them.
If Rowdy Tellez was a YankeeRed Sox prospect, he’d be a consensus top 100 prospect in baseball (not a top 50 prospect, not the best prospect in baseball, just a top 100 prospect). That’s what I mean by “underrated.” That’s not overrating, that’s realism.
Here come the down votes!
So they are all underrated because 1 of the 6 guys you mentioned might be a back end top 100 prospect if he was in another teams farm system? And you are claiming that as realism?
longenhagen says
Tellez gets beat by velocity, up. His hands go back high and, sometimes, late, making it hard for him to catch fastballs and make meaningful contact or sometimes any at all.
In the Fall League, when Tellez would find himself in fastball counts, his hands quieted down and everything would trigger earlier, giving him a chance to get his bat in the zone on time. Some scouts might say Tellez is “cheating on the fastball”, making a predetermined guess about what’s headed his way and adjusting his swing accordingly, something that’s difficult to sustain in the big leagues, where a higher concentration of pitchers can throw whatever pitch they want, whenever they want. Others would just say Tellez is “smart” for letting the situation dictate his behavior at the plate.
It also takes Tellez’s bat a while to get into the hitting zone and, while he has shown some feel for making opposite-field contact when his barrel doesn’t arrive in time to pull the ball, he hits the ball on the ground quite a bit. MLBfarm has his 2016 fly-ball rate at 29% (league average is 35%) and, while there are exceptions (Paul Goldschmidt and Corey Seager are both down there) the 28-30% fly-ball range isn’t exactly full of players who hit for the kind of power needed to profile at first base.
and yet he started off his season with two dingers off 94mph fastballs in Buffalo April weather – one to left centre, the other a laser to RF.
Centre? What’s that? Speak ‘Murican please.
jk 🙂
When you can only name two position players as being young and cost-controlled, and one of them has been injury prone (Travis) and the other a below-average hitter (wRC+ of 84), that probable shouldn’t be a source of optimism.
Sure, Pillar is a brilliant fielder in center field, Travis would be a strong 2B if he can stay healthy and Stroman and Sanchez hold promise for the top of the rotation, but that side of the scale is awfully light compared to the side weighted down by players who are either more than halfway to collecting social security or who will be soon lost to free agency.
As for prospects, there’s a reason Dalton Pompey is doing a three-peat in AAA (he doesn’t hit well enough for a corner OF), Gurriel Jr.’s bat is iffy and he’s completely untested in the minor leagues, Alford’s contact skills are sub-optimal and he is most useful in CF where he would be blocked by Pillar. The only prospect you mentioned who I would consider underrated is Tellez, whom I think had made enough adjustments at the plate to become a good-hitting 1B. Along with Urena, they all project to becoming perhaps average MLB position players, and the only prospect who stands out with a higher ceiling, Guerrero Jr., is only 18.
“Along with Urena, they all project to becoming perhaps average MLB position players.”
With the caveat that more than half of all prospects are going to struggle to reach their ceiling, if not bust entirely. If you’ve got 5 prospects you think could potentially become an average MLB position player you’ve probably got one or two. This is a weak system at the upper levels…there is little help coming soon.
I wonder if the Blue Jays will be able to look at this from a purely rational baseball perspective. They led the AL in attendance last season after spending much of the 00s with really moribund numbers (bottoming out in 2010 with less than half of 2016’s attendance).
I imagine the temptation to fool themselves and try to make “one last run” with this core in 2018 would be really strong versus just tearing down at the 2017 trade deadline. It’s always tough to order a teardown of a recently competitive team but it’s gotta be especially hard when the team is riding a high tide of fan enthusiasm.
My guess is that they hired Shapiro because they’re looking at this from the rational perspective you describe. He doesn’t seem like the kind of guy you get if you want to trade for vets and load up, much more the oversee a rebuild type.
The quandary is far bigger than people might realize…I am good friends with a person that works in the Leafs front office. The Leafs, as the crown jewel in the Rogers sports empire, have been putting pressure on Rogers to relocate the Jays to a new stadium somewhere else in the GTA. The Leafs currently share an arena with the Raptors and they are desperate, now that they look set to be among the best teams in the NHL, to once again have a dedicated arena. And where do they want it? Skydome’s current location. They want it demolished and a new Maple Leaf Gardens built in its place. The Raptors, another Rogers owned team, would also love to have the ACC (the current home of the Leafs) all to themselves.
A Jays team set for long rebuild will have practically zero leverage with Rogers to stop the Leafs getting their way. The Leafs will argue that the Jays can go homeless for a season or two, playing “homegames” in Montreal, Detroit, Seattle, Milwaukee, and Tampa Bay while their new stadium is constructed.
LOL. Do you work for the Toronto Sun?
This might not be the dumbest comment I’ve read on FG in 2017, but I did have to think about it for a minute.
No, I’m pretty sure it’s the dumbest.
you guys are crazy, this comment is awesome.
this is the weirdest conspiracy theory about Rogers i’ve heard yet.
Points awarded for creativity, but total nonsense.
This is weird, and that’s not even taking into account that the Jays (current start to the season notwithstanding) are probably Toronto’s top performing Big 4 sports team.
For those not so familiar with Rogers and its primary business, which is gauging people paying for cable, Internet and phone service, it took Rogers three years, dozens of visits and multiple construction efforts to successfully repair a single cable line for a single block of customers in my home community. Perhaps the small arm of Rogers that is sports thinks more strategically, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
“It’s April 13.”
You buried the lead.
As in, lead actor? Or, like, lead paint?
Lead pipes.
Dave buried the pipe; good one Dave, you’re a legend Dave.
Is Vlad Guerrero Jr. off limits? By most accounts, the bat is elite, and some people think that he could be in the Bigs by age 20/21 (He *just* turned 18).
I doubt they move Vlad, his ceiling is too high and he’s already the darling of the Jay’s farm system.
I too am an O’s fan, and was wondering if it has struck anyone else as much as it has me that the AL East team that is waiting for the young guys to really pop is the Yankees while the teams that face VERY tough decisions over the next several years because of their very narrow contention window are the Blue Jays and Orioles.
How long has it been since that could have been said? Two decades isn’t enough. Three decades?
Early 90s. Blue Jays had just come off back-to-back WS titles and the O’s were in the prime Ripkin Years. Meanwhile, the aging Boggs/Mattingly Yankees were gazing hopefully towards the real but unproven potential of kids in Albany like Jeter and Petite (not to mention a failing starter named Mariano Rivera).
Dave, in the long run what do you reckon Alex Anthopoulos’ legacy will be?
Two straight ALCS appearances after a 21-year playoff drought should obviously be celebrated. Alas, here we are.
He’ll probably only get credit for one of those seasons/appearances — even though most of the 2016 team was still the one he built, he wasn’t in charge and that’s the way it goes.
The good news for the Blue Jays is that it’s currently hockey playoffs, so literally no one in Toronto is paying attention to their record. When the Leafs crash out of the playoffs in a week or two, as they inevitably will (and always do), Greater Toronto will look up from their beers and esquire, “How are the Jays doing?” If at that point the team has turned things around and is sitting .500-ish with some reasons for hope, all will be well and the fans will go to the park. (Meanwhile, the rest of Canada which is all Rogers’ “territory” has no option but to watch Jays games once hockey has ended.)
Woah hold on. This is a complete mischaracterization of Toronto sports fans. They won’t be looking up from their beer, they’ll have gotten a new one and then check out how the Blue Jays are doing.
I don’t get the analytical soundness of what Dave suggests in this column. Surely a 1-7 start is a nightmare, but ultimately the question is how good a team is over 162 games. The timing and sequencing of winning/losing streaks are not auto-correlated. It seems about as efficacious to me as making an election prediction based upon the first 2 week’s of polling following the end of the primaries. Within the context of 162 games, why is a 1-7 start more impactful than exiting the All Star break on a 1-7 road trip skid on the West Coast? Is the Reds’ 7-2 start somehow predictive of how they will perform over 162 games? Was the Phillies’ hot start last year? Taking any team’s extreme start, good or bad, and extrapolating into some fantasy world of analysis is good click bait but not sound analysis, IMO. The Jays are 4.5 games back of 1st place – repeat that sentence on July 15th and what would the context be for them “blowing up” the roster?
The first two weeks of polling don’t count for 5% of the final vote. The Jays talent was enough to put them in the thick of the playoff race before the season. Now, with a big hole dug, it might not be, not because the talent changed but because of the big hole. For a team already on the verge of needing a rebuild regardless of how this season went, that’s significant. The Jays had some hard choices to make, be it in May, July, or November. Every game lost makes the hole deeper, the playoffs less likely, and the time for those decisions sooner.
It’s not that it’s predictive, it’s that we have some outcomes decided and not enough information to adjust our predictions in a major fashion to arrive back at our initial value.
If we take a fair coin toss for 162 tosses, I would predict 81 heads and 81 tails. Given the 1 heads 7 tails start, I would still expect the remaining 154 to be 77-77, which would give us a 78-84 result after 162 tosses. I have no reason to expect it to get back to 81-81, but it could.
I certainly understand your points in regards to basic probabilities, but Dave also projects a lot of “analysis” to rationalize the points he attempts to make. The reality is a 162 game season is not the same as coin flips – it is far more complex with a ton of independent and co-dependent variables. To take a small sample size of 8 games and extrapolate that into some sort of 162 game season is silly. Why not do that for the Cubs last season when they had 2 similar periods of poor performance? As I already stated, why not extrapolate the Reds into being a contender based on 9 games? The timing and sequencing of winning/losing streaks for teams is impossible predict, but they are inherent. Selecting some arbitrary sample or endpoint and then extrapolating “if they play .578 from here” blah blah blah is just poor analysis, IMO. There was a similar conversation about the Jays last season and in 2015 as they were 4-7 games under .500 as late as early June and then caught fire. Dave basically apologizes throughout the column for doing what he couldn’t resist – which is tantamount to Page Six analysis.
“Even if you’re not adjusting their expected future winning percentage down in a massive way based on what has happened so far — and we’re not, as our rest-of-season projection has them playing like an 84-win team over the next 154 games — the early struggles have just made the task more difficult.”
He’s really not doing what you keep saying he’s doing. He acknowledges that the terrible start for many of their players can’t last long. The fact remains that making it out of the hole they’re digging is increasingly unlikely. Betting on another 2015 would be foolish.
“Taking any team’s extreme start, good or bad, and extrapolating”
He’s not extrapolating from the at all: if he were, he’d be predicting a 20-142 season.
“The Jays are 4.5 games back of 1st place – repeat that sentence on July 15th”
If they’re 4.5 games back July 1st, then they will have played comparatively better than projected, so of course their situation would have improved.
I don’t see enough trade value here to kickstart a rebuild on-the-fly. (As in, return enough talent near-MLB-ready to deliver during the timeframe that they retain their existing young pitchers). It seems like if the fire sale scenario plays out, Stroman or Estrada might even be in play, no?
there are tons of pieces to facilitate a rebuild if need be. virtually nobody is tied to long term contracts.
any prospective playoff team in baseball would take a bat like Jose Bautista, even in reduced form. same for Morales. a contender with catching problems like Cleveland would take Russell Martin in a heartbeat. a swiss army knife like Steve Pearce fits on any good team. Estrada, Happ, Liriano could bolster just about any starting staff. there are crap-tons of move-able, attractive pieces on this team.
and obviously they could unload their resident MVP for a boatload.
If any team actually wanted Morales, they could have signed him months ago.
If any team wants a catcher hitting nearly 0.00000, no longer able to effectively hold runners, and making $20 million, then I’m certain they’d be calling the Jays but something tells me the phone is still on the hook.
What kind of return does Donaldson command if they do trade him in July? Are there any good comps from recent years?
The Tulowitzki trade comes to mind as a decent comp. The return there was Jeff Hoffman, Miguel Castro, and Jesus Tinoco. But Donaldson seems better than Tulowitzki was in July 2015 and that return seemed a little light to some people at the time. I would expect a slightly better package than that if Toronto were to trade Donaldson in July.
Donaldson comes without Tulo’s health risk though. i would think they’d get two top 100 prospects for JD (probably one in the top 50) plus an interesting lottery ticket or two.
Sadly, Donaldson doesn’t come with Tulo’s health risk – he comes with his own, hah.
That being said, he’s younger, has been better consistently, and is under control for a year after this and likely to sign an extension if the team that acquired him was a contender. He’s seriously good, and if he were on the market, he’d be the best player available by a fair margin. I feel like Shatkins are capable of getting value for their best asset.
Read this just after the Mariners piece. I think the big difference between them and the Mariners is that the Mariners don’t have an obvious trade candidate like Donaldson (Felix and Cano have no-trade clauses, Seager is signed long-term on a great contract, Paxton still has team control). The Mariners probably can’t make it worth it to sell, but the Jays could get a real haul for Donaldson. At some point, it might be worth it to get some extensions hammered out for the arbitration guys, see if they can get the Mets or Indians or someone else to sell the farm for Donaldson, and target 2019/2020 as a return to contention instead.
Looks like the Jays and Cards have much to ponder,should regression continue.Rough year for songbirds!