The Devaluation of New Ideas

Over at The Ringer yesterday, Ben Lindbergh wrote a fantastic piece on what MLB teams are doing to protect their intellectual property in the wake of the Astros’ hacking scandal. But while Ryan Pollock tackled the question of how an organization might protect itself from malevolent outside intrusions, Lindbergh’s piece focused on what teams are doing about the inevitable transfer of their ideas that come from the relatively free movement of front office employees and the increasing availability of qualify data in the public sphere.

If you’ve been paying attention to the types of posts that have gone up on InstaGraphs over the winter, you’ve noticed all the job postings; MLB teams are greatly expanding their research and development departments, and because front office employees mostly don’t sign long-term contracts, a good number of these positions are filled by people who were already working for another club in some capacity. Interns move into analyst roles, analysts become managers, and managers can switch organizations to land director jobs. And this cross-pollination of employees means that ideas are difficult to keep internal, since you can’t force someone to unlearn the processes that were valued by their former employer.

And that’s just the issue teams face when one employee goes to work for one other organization. Team employees are not guaranteed to always stay within the circle of working for the organizations themselves, and sometimes, they move into public-facing roles. Lindbergh himself interned for the Yankees back in 2009, and his time in their baseball operations department informed his opinion on catcher framing, which he’s since written extensively about in the public arena.

Perhaps even more interestingly, Tom Tango joined MLBAM last year, and is now working on developing Statcast-related tools that will help the public better understand how to use tracking data for player evaluation. Tango spent a good chunk of the last decade working for the Blue Jays, Mariners, and Cubs, and while he’s not going to just come out and say “This is what the Cubs look for in a pitcher”, it’s a good bet that the processes he’s building are going to look reasonably similar to the ones that were being used internally by the front offices he worked for. And now, any team in baseball that knows how to use Baseball Savant will have access to those ideas, raising the baseline for the minimum level of understanding of how to use Statcast.

Quoting from Lindbergh’s piece:

As more and more Statcast data trickles out to the public, we’re approaching a point when the stat-savvy fan can form a nearly complete picture of a player’s performance on the field. Teams have already reached that point, but they also have a handicap that narrows the gap between public and private knowledge: They lack the public’s ability to crowdsource with a brain trust whose size is limited only by the moderate difficulty of communicating online. “Now more so than ever,” the former scouting exec says, “secrets are harder to keep secret from the public at large. An enterprising independent analyst is likely to come closer to reverse-engineering insight into a team’s roster-building process than many clubs would be comfortable admitting.”

McCracken adds, “I think a lot of folks would be surprised at how little ‘secret’ information there really is at any one team, and even further surprised at how little benefit that ‘secret’ information confers.” Mariners director of analytics Jesse Smith sees it the same way: “Hypothetically, by the time someone has taken a statistical method elsewhere, has been able to implement it and is in a position to use that information to influence the decision-making of other teams, we would probably be onto the next thing.”

Because ideas can move within organizations, or from behind the walls of a non-disclosure agreement into the public sphere, teams can’t rely on long-term sustained advantages from discovering a new idea or a new way of evaluating a player or skill. As Lindbergh said, in 2009, the Yankees may have beaten the league to quantifying the value of catcher framing, but by 2011, Mike Fast had proven the concept in public, and even after the Astros snapped up Fast for themselves, the advantage diminished quickly for the early adopters, since everyone started looking for catchers who could steal strikes, or at least not give them away.

And that’s why there was one particular line in Lindbergh’s piece that perhaps best encapsulates how teams are looking to get long-term advantages now.

“The real secret is in the discipline that it takes to implement strategy.” Another NL R&D director stresses, “The execution of the ideas is far more important than the ideas themselves, and so that tends to be the most difficult thing to reproduce in another organization.”

This is where it seems the current advantage really lies. As Travis Sawchik outlined in his book Big Data Baseball, the Pirates didn’t necessarily have any brilliant new ideas that helped turn their franchise around, as plenty of other teams were aggressively shifting their defenders or looking for harmony between their pitchers and their defenders. But what they did, perhaps better than anyone during the last few years, was get information from the office to the field, and get buy-in from players that doing things differently was going to make them more likely to win.

At this point, it seems the value is less in the quality or proprietary nature of a team’s ideas, and more in the vehicles that move those ideas around. Teams are now spending more resources on people who can help bridge the gap between the front office and the coaching staff or the players themselves. With guys like Brian Bannister making an impact by helping the Rich Hills of the baseball world become something more than what they were thought to be, the value won’t be in having someone in the organization who advocates for a plan as simple as “throw more curveballs”, but will be in having someone with enough credibility that the players will actually throw more curveballs.

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This doesn’t mean that new ideas have no value, of course, but it does seem like MLB is well past the time when a team can simply figure out what the next undervalued statistic is and turn that into a winning roster. With a very short shelf life on actual proprietary ideas, the new way to beat your opponents may be about better implementing well-accepted concepts in a way that actually makes a difference on the field. It’s no longer just about finding new ideas and then exploiting those ideas for maximum gain, but in figuring out how to deploy ideas that might make a small difference on a wide scale.

After all, as Travis wrote yesterday, the idea of the ideal swing plane being an uppercut isn’t really a new idea anymore, but teams who end up with a Josh Donaldson or a Justin Turner — a player whose value was dramatically altered by a data-driven change in their process — can get a lot of value out of the implementation of that idea. It isn’t a secret, but there are still huge differences in how well even stale ideas get put into practice, and that seems to be the way that the best teams in baseball are currently separating themselves from the rest of the pack.

So, when someone inevitably asks what the next market inefficiency is in baseball, I’ll probably shorten my answer to “communication”. With ideas themselves no longer conveying huge advantages, it’s the ability to turn even somewhat obvious beliefs into actual action that can give an organization a legitimate, sustainable edge.





Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.

46 Comments
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Baltar
9 years ago

Yep, you’re right. For example, it will be a long time before scouts stop undervaluing pitchers who don’t have a great fastball or pitchers who are not tall.
The one market inefficiency I see is that catchers are still undervalued, even since the discovery of the value of framing. They are, after all, one half of the partners in the process of pitching.

aweb
9 years ago
Reply to  Baltar

But good framing could rapidly become like NHL goaltending, or NFL placekicking. There will be more players available with the skill than jobs to put them in, and only the very excellent player will be worth extra. And only rarely will a player slip through who is actually terrible at framing. The skill won’t be undervalued, exactly, but it will be taught and selected for long before most players reach MLB. The first teams to figure out how to teach it and apply it will be at an advantage (already have been, I suppose), but much like analytic guys move around all the time, minor and major league coaches are pretty fluid jobs too.

Aaron Judge's Gavel
9 years ago
Reply to  aweb

Jeff talked about that here: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-beginning-of-the-end-for-pitch-framing/
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-ongoing-rise-of-the-pitch-framing-floor/

Basically standard deviation of framing has decreased to its lowest point since it became a thing. And to your point, now that teams are aware of framing value and can measure it, someone like a Ryan Doumit might not ever even make it to the show (at least as a catcher). At the same time, a Jose Molina type isn’t as valuable anymore since the baseline is higher, and he can’t provide enough value with just his framing given his bat is basically replacement level or below.

Baltar
9 years ago
Reply to  aweb

All of the replies to my comment have been good, but I failed to communicate correctly. Catchers have value beyond the statistics that we currently have including framing. The next great inefficiency to be quantified is that value.

Ryan DCMember since 2016
9 years ago
Reply to  Baltar

You mean in terms of calling a game?

Baltar
9 years ago
Reply to  Ryan DC

That’s part of it.

Famous Mortimer
9 years ago
Reply to  Baltar

What skills are they?

Baltar
9 years ago

Other than pitch-calling, here are some that I have in mind, but I’m sure I don’t know them all: setting the target, fielding throws from the infielders and outfielders, tagging, advising the pitcher if he is doing something wrong, helping with the pitchers mental and emotional state, et. al.

Chickensoup
9 years ago

I think the “buying in” process is really what turns teams to do well. Both the Cubs (though they had a lot more advantages in roster construction than most teams do) and Indians (who had a platoon advantage something like 70+% of the time) showed it. The Royals did 2 years in a row as well.

I think of it as roster construction with a theme, one that exploits some aspect of the game to your advantage. It’s really all you can do unless money isn’t a problem for the franchise. Cultivate a team first attitude, construct a roster of players with good makeup whenever possible, exploit something. It could be ye olde Moneyball OBP, defense, baserunning, groundball pitchers, flyball pitchers (park dependant) etc. To me it just makes sense for most teams to operate this way because you’re not asking too much from the players, players can do the aspects they do well potentially better, and it’s just cheaper

jrubyMember since 2026
9 years ago
Reply to  Chickensoup

I agree with this, but would clarify one thing: while a number of managers are really good at getting players to “buy into the system,” some of those managers are the sort of old-school, go-with-your-gut, to-hell-with-them-stats-nerds type managers (cough Dusty Baker cough), and thus give away any advantage they might have gained in terms of team construction/chemistry by making bad in-game decisions. It’s the ones who appear to do both things well – your Maddons and Franconas – who see the repeated, sustained success.

evo34Member since 2023
9 years ago
Reply to  Chickensoup

Yeah, it must be tough to “buy in” to a $180M payroll.

Zach
9 years ago
Reply to  Chickensoup

Your second point made me think of the Mariners’ offseason. 2011 (full-time Brendan Ryan sums up the season pretty well) sticks out in my mind as a cautionary tale of going too far towards a roster “theme”. Of course, there were other problems with that team, but it seems like DiPoto has sought out a defensive, athletic team again. I guess we will see if this one turns out better than 67 wins.

lesmashMember since 2017
9 years ago

Combining this with what we know to be true about how pitchers fare worse the 3rd time through the order, it seems to me that the race is now about which organization(s) can successfully get their personnel (i.e. execs and coaches and players) to buy into the most optimal way to use their entire team’s pitching staff to maximize wins. It has to be about putting the team first, with individual stats taking a backseat. This is tough since traditional stats help players earn better contracts, etc., and that is why this race will be such a challenge: getting people to buy in when it hurts their own wallet is no easy feat.

rbemont
9 years ago
Reply to  lesmash

… and when managers do things differently, and they don’t work out (good process, poor results) … the manager loses their job and “everyone” knows what an idiot they are.

If, however, all managers typically manage the same … then they aren’t to blame/praise for what the results are.

There is more risk than reward in doing things differently, in terms of managerial decisions.

bananas
9 years ago
Reply to  rbemont

Nobody gets fired for choosing IBM.

MattabattacolaMember since 2026
9 years ago
Reply to  lesmash

If teams were to implement this strategy their counting stats may decrease, but most likely their rate stats would see improvement. Eliminating that 3rd time through, while decreasing IP and strike out total, would probably improve ERA, WHIP even K/9 as they wouldn’t have those less effective innings in their totals. This might even help pitchers get paid more!

MattabattacolaMember since 2026
9 years ago
Reply to  Mattabattacola

I forgot to mention ERA is traditional so it’s not like their value will be hidden deep in other statistics

evo34Member since 2023
9 years ago
Reply to  Mattabattacola

Not to mention massive increases in RP injury rates!

evo34Member since 2023
9 years ago
Reply to  lesmash

There’s a reason teams don’t use 5 pitchers per game until the post-season…

Richie
9 years ago

Success in life has always been about implementation rather than creation. Making the New Thing actually work, rather than thinking it up before anyone else does.

The day’s Pomposity Quota now having been filled, The End.

evo34Member since 2023
9 years ago
Reply to  Richie

I agree, but tell this to US Patent Office…

OkraMember since 2016
9 years ago

This is the exact reason why I don’t think anyone is anxious to hack into another team’s database as Correa did. Yet the general consensus seems to be that the penalty was too soft and therefore it is bound to happen again. It’s a risk/reward proposition and the potential reward for hacking another team’s database just isn’t that great. Want to look at their draft board? Who’s to say their scouts are better than yours. Find out they value (insert skill here) 10% more than you? Not very ground breaking. You would be better off using the $2M the Cardinals were fined to hire lots of really smart people (who are likely from other teams) to do this work yourself. And not risk 4yrs in jail.

bananas
9 years ago
Reply to  Okra

The value to an organization is small, but the marginal value to an individual is higher. Imagine if you could take every idea you had for your company and validate it using a competitor’s really smart analysts. You’d come out looking a lot better because you would be able to filter your own ideas.

bleh
9 years ago
Reply to  Okra

It’s not an either/or when looking at someone else’s scouting info. It’s just more data. Maybe they dug up some info your scouts didn’t that would be useful. Also it’s like seeing your opponent’s hand in poker. Of course it will be helpful. If they have a guy you like listed really low on their board, that might make you realize you can get away with drafting him a little later.

And I really doubt there are baseball executives out there weighing the pros and cons of hacking into other teams’ databases and this one realization that new ideas lose value is what is deterring them from doing it.

Jetsy Extrano
9 years ago
Reply to  bleh

If you want to hold off and draft a guy a round later than you’d be willing to, you’d better hack everybody’s draft board, not just one.

JUICEMANE
9 years ago

Westside guy
9 years ago

“Tango spent a good chunk of the last decade working for the Blue Jays, Mariners, and Cubs, and while he’s not going to just come out and say “This is what the Cubs look for in a pitcher”, it’s a good bet that the processes he’s building are going to look reasonably similar to the ones that were being used internally by the front offices he worked for.”

Since he worked for the Mariners early in the Jack Z era – has Tango ever shown an odd penchant for low-OBP, strikeout-prone, right handed power hitters with no other discernible baseball skills?

evo34Member since 2023
9 years ago
Reply to  Westside guy

Loudest laugh of the month…so far.

evo34Member since 2023
9 years ago
Reply to  Westside guy

I would love to see an independent evaluation of Tango’s WAR for the last 10 years. Over/under = -0.5.

channelclemente
9 years ago

So are you framing a case for player and others to sign NDAs in protection of what might be called a trade secret. Violating that legal device has a potential of criminal penalties. IMO, if you contribute it to The Game, it’s the property of The Game.

witesoxfan
9 years ago

How do you justify what is and is not a trade secret?

channelclemente
9 years ago
Reply to  witesoxfan

It’s key to your competitive advantage. Beyond that demonstration/declaration, you develop the established legal framework to protect it. Often an NDA with key holders of the trade secret is then used to seal the deal. If you feel the secret has been violated you sue and ask for civil or criminal redress.

Matt Malkus
9 years ago

This is a similar concept to diminishing returns in economics – the big, easy gains, the low hanging fruit, are taken early on. As time passes, and competition catches up or resources are exhausted, it costs more per unit of whatever you’re making (wins in this case). That continues until some large shock hits the system: A new source of a natural resource is discovered, or a new source of data is tapped into, or some external force acts on the system.

Baseball has become so data rich so quickly that it’s hard to imagine what a “shock” looks like, but all 32 teams should probably be looking for it.

Matt Malkus
9 years ago
Reply to  Matt Malkus

30 teams* before I get downvoted a ton – long day and all

evo34Member since 2023
9 years ago
Reply to  Matt Malkus

Eh. That’s what lazy people think. That all the “good” ideas are already out there. Efficient Market Hypothesis, etc. If it was accurate, we’d still be living in caves.

Famous Mortimer
9 years ago
Reply to  Matt Malkus

32? Oh,dammit, beaten to it (by you, no less).

signedepsteinsmother
9 years ago

Sounds crazy enough to work, Dave.

Dan FlahertyMember
9 years ago

Seems to me a good market inefficiency to exploit would be to make use of the very undervalued sluggers, at least for the near future

I am the Rockies fan
9 years ago
Reply to  Dan Flaherty

I agree the one dimensional sluggers are a little undervalued, but I disagree with the idea of very. Teams often emulate what worked for the teams that have been recently successful, and whether it’s the Cubs or Royals that teams are looking too, there is an increased focus on defense, or at least a player with more value than just one skill.

Benches are too small for position players to hide this type of player on the roster, and most teams are refusing the high salaries these players have commanded in the past before sabermetrics helped slap some value (or lack of) on that type of player.

Personally I think the market for them will recover a little, but it wil likely never return to what it once was. The game just requires another MLB level skill, whether OBP or average to plus D, in addition to the power in order to be considered a real valuable contributor to the team, especially considering the power spike of last year.

evo34Member since 2023
9 years ago

“As Lindbergh said, in 2009, the Yankees may have beaten the league to quantifying the value of catcher framing, but by 2011, Mike Fast had proven the concept in public, and even after the Astros snapped up Fast for themselves, the advantage diminished quickly for the early adopters, since everyone started looking for catchers who could steal strikes, or at least not give them away. ”

Source?

evo34Member since 2023
9 years ago

“New” ideas are not the ideas being beaten into the ground by BP and FG this season. [I’m reasonably sure that fading “framing” skill has edge at this point]. The most creative sources of edge come from professional gamblers, whose day-to-day livelihoods depend on accuracy and innovation. They also happen to be the most secretive of creatures, so don’t expect a press conference announcing what major inefficiencies have been uncovered in the off-season.

As a rule of thumb, FG/BP writers are 2-3 years behind bettors; GMs, however, are rapidly catching up.

Famous Mortimer
9 years ago
Reply to  evo34

Didn’t Malcolm Gladwell do a thing about sport gamblers? Not sure they uncovered anything other than “spend a lot of money and be prepared for a very small return”.

AJS
9 years ago

I think what this doesn’t account for is that some of the existing ideas might simply be “wrong”. I’m thinking here of the 57/43 WAR split between hitters and pitchers, or the value of positional adjustments — that sort of thing. (See this article by Dave for an example: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/a-discussion-about-improving-war/)

If a team can come up with a new way to tackle those questions, and so has different player valuations than the rest of the league, it could be a competitive advantage. They’re not new ideas, per se, just different ways to think about old ones — and that can still have a lot of value.

And because these tweaks would be fundamentally “differences of interpretation” rather than a new metric — other teams might not catch on or be willing to adopt. So a team that adjusts correctly could maintain an advantage.

Roger McDowell Hot Foot
9 years ago
Reply to  AJS

Yeah, this is certainly possible (likely, even) — it’s just difficult to see how an adjustment to a putatively more correct model would translate to a large fundamental difference in a front office’s actions. Presumably the point here is that whatever “wrong” ideas are still widely believed are different from the true, “right” player valuations (etc) by a small enough margin these days that the kind of approach that Moneyball once described isn’t really a viable strategy anymore. Maybe at most the situation we’re in now is that the “right” team makes one good yes/no decision on a free agent or a trade every year or two, on margin, that they might not have made otherwise; it’s going to be very hard to clearly differentiate that from a “wrong” team that stochastically happened to guess “right” in that case, even for that front office itself. We’re talking about relatively smaller differences now than we used to be, is the thesis here (if you buy it).

Roger McDowell Hot Foot
9 years ago

And I guess I should say, I’m not sure I really buy that thesis either — we’ve seen enough front offices make decisions that are “irrational” or “wrong” by our shared FanGraphs-esque standards, just in the last couple of years, that I’m not clear that all the teams in MLB are really acting on the models just because they all have someone on staff whose job modelling notionally is. But I guess the thesis is that the ideas themselves — the knowledge, rather than the action — aren’t a competitive advantage anymore even if actually acting correctly on them still is.