The Dodgers Should Use Yu Darvish Tonight

Tonight, the Astros try to become World Series champions, while the Dodgers attempt to give us one more day of baseball this year. The Astros plan seems pretty straightforward: Justin Verlander will pitch until he can’t anymore, and then, depending on the score, they’ll either go with Lance McCullers (if it’s close) or some combination of the few remaining relievers A.J. Hinch trusts (if it’s a blowout). The Dodgers don’t have Justin Verlander, though, so things are going to be a little more complicated for Dave Roberts.

Rich Hill is a quality pitcher, but so far, the usage plan for him this postseason has been obvious: twice through the line-up and then he comes out. That is almost certainly going to change tonight, as Roberts would either have to continue to wear out Brandon Morrow, Kenta Maeda, and Kenley Jansen — leaving them less effective for another must-win tomorrow — or get some innings from some of the bullpen guys he hasn’t trusted in this series.

But unfortunately for Roberts, the next arms down the depth chart are left-handers Tony Watson and Tony Cingrani. Having a couple of southpaws ready to replace the left-handed Rich Hill isn’t all that helpful, especially since the Astros’ top of the order are all right-handed. And the throw-day starter who is available to help out tonight is Alex Wood, also left-handed. Tonight, Roberts’ has all the fresh left-handers he needs, but he’s running low on right-handed pitchers he can use to go after George Springer, Alex Bregman, Jose Altuve, and Carlos Correa.

So, perhaps instead of holding Yu Darvish to start Game 7 tomorrow, the Dodgers should take a page out of A.J. Hinch’s playbook and try to tandem-start tonight’s game, with Darvish ready to replace Hill for the second half of the game.

The best case scenario for the Dodgers tonight is to win without having to use any of Maeda, Morrow, or Jansen in relief. With two days off, those three could form a devastating late-game combination again in Game 7 tomorrow, and when you add in Clayton Kershaw’s expected availability for some relief work in Game 7, the Dodgers probably wouldn’t ask Darvish to go particularly deep tomorrow. And if he’s only going to throw three or four innings in the next two games, they would probably be more helpful tonight, when the fresh arms are all left-handed. And the most likely way Roberts could avoid using his big three relievers tonight would be to have a right-handed arm on the mound he trusts, and looking at the options, Darvish is the only one who fits the bill.

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Let’s map this a little bit, knowing Roberts has to plan on getting 54 outs in the next two days in some fashion. Things don’t usually go according to plan, but if you tandem-start Hill and Darvish tonight, the 54-out blueprint could look something like this.

A Best-Case Pitching Plan
Game Pitcher Expected Batters Faced Outs Due Up When Pulled
6 RIch Hill 20 15 Jose Altuve
6 Yu Darvish 18 12 End of Game
7 Kenta Maeda 9 6 George Springer
7 Brandon Morrow 4 3 Yulieski Gurriel
7 Tony Watson 5 3 George Springer
7 Clayton Kershaw 9 6 George Springer
7 Kenley Jansen 7 6 Josh Reddick
7 Tony Cingrani 2 2 George Springer

Under this plan, Hill and Darvish would handle all of Game 6, saving the right-handed relievers for tomorrow, when they’d have an extra day of rest. In order to get those guys an extra day, Darvish would have to pitch on three days rest instead of his regular four, but given that he faced just 12 batters and threw only 49 pitches in his start on Friday night, we probably shouldn’t expect the same level of short-rest penalty to apply using him today as if he was held until tomorrow. Essentially, the idea is that Darvish would be helped less by being held until tomorrow than the three right-handed relievers, who have been worked significantly harder of late.

And then, with Kershaw available to help get some outs tomorrow, the Dodgers don’t really need a traditional Game 7 starter. Maeda has plenty of experience starting games, so he could be first up in a line of arms, attacking the team’s right-handers right off the bat. And then you could basically just play the matchups, using Morrow, Kershaw, and Jansen to go after the Springer-to-Correa portion of the line-up every time they come up, and then stealing some outs with Watson and Cingrani when it gets to the bottom of the order. Cingrani is listed last there, as he would be the de facto closer if Jansen ran out of gas after facing the Astros best hitters and they just needed to steal a few outs to close out the game, but you could swap him out for Alex Wood if you want, or just decide to live or die with Jansen on the mound.

Now, plans like this only work if everyone is good, and that’s unlikely to happen. If Hill struggles, you’d have to go to a traditional reliever today, most likely, since you’ll want Darvish starting a new inning with the bases empty. So you probably have to have a guy like Ross Stripling warming while Hill goes through the top couple of hitters in the Astros line-up a third time, and hope that pair can get you through five innings so that Darvish could start the sixth.

But under this kind of plan, the Dodgers have a shot at getting 54 outs primarily from the pitchers Roberts has shown he trusts, and do so without putting the best relievers on the mound in both games, when fatigue becomes an issue. If they hold Darvish for tomorrow’s start, then they almost certainly would have to use their high-leverage relief trio tonight, which means tomorrow would have to be the Darvish/Kershaw show, with whichever reliever doesn’t get pushed too hard tonight trying to pitch yet again.

The other option is probably just hoping Rich Hill can give you seven innings, and then you save Maeda for tomorrow, and go Darvish/Kershaw/Maeda/whatever is left of Jansen. But Hill hasn’t gone seven innings in a month, and the Astros offense is a terrible match-up for a tiring left-handed starter. So while it’s easy to say that Roberts should just go old school and tell his starter to get him to pitch like its 1984, that’s just playing with fire.

Instead, if the Dodgers tandem-start tonight’s game, they could go full rested bullpen tomorrow, and make the Astros beat their best right-handed pitchers, rather than getting a chance to tee off on a tiring southpaw tonight. It’s probably not going to happen — Darvish has never pitched in relief, which I’ve entirely ignored, but Roberts can’t afford to — but if they’re going to win both of the next two games, this might give them their best shot.





Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.

53 Comments
Oldest
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bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
8 years ago

I knew it was too much to expect for Dave to include Yuli Gurriel on his list of good RH hitters for the Astros. Just kidding.

FrodoBeck
8 years ago

I’ve been wracking my brain all day trying to figure out how Roberts is going to get through 27 outs tonight. This seems like the best way, but also unlikely.

I’ll be a little baffled if the plan ends up being “hey let’s hope Hill can get us 6 great innings”. If he’s anything but incredibly effective the series might be over.

LloydMember since 2018
8 years ago

Dave, your table has only 53 outs! What are you trying to tell us?? I know the series has been crazy but are the Astros going to be the first squad to walk it off as the away team??

I can’t wait for gametime.

bawfuls
8 years ago

This makes no sense whatsoever. What happens if Darvish doesn’t have it tonight? Now you’ve gotta go to the pen anyway, and have also burned the starter for tomorrow.

abney_mi
8 years ago
Reply to  bawfuls

If he doesn’t have it, I’m guessing the Astros are winning the World Series tonight and you dont have to worry about the bullpen

ghostelephant
8 years ago
Reply to  bawfuls

Why is that any worse than either of the following situations:

a) the Dodgers win tonight without Darvish, but he starts tomorrow and doesn’t have it, or

b) Darvish doesn’t pitch tonight, and the Dodgers lose because their relievers are exhausted?

stever20Member since 2017
8 years ago

1 problem in the chart. Hill was on in game 2, but stil only got thru 18 batters and 12 outs. So already was +6 in terms of BF to outs. So to think that he’ll go thru 20 batters and 15 outs is very optimistic. So that means either you are counting on Stripling to get thru the 5th inning and the heart of the lineup or counting on Hill to get thru it. Neither one a great scenario.

Also if the game is close, this is a NL game. Meaning there is the pitcher batting quesion. Darvish pitching 4 innings means he’s batting at least once, if not twice. If it’s a close game, that’s not going to fly.

dannm
8 years ago
Reply to  stever20

Darvish already showed what he can do against Carl Edwards Jr – annoy the pitcher and hope for a walk.

On the Astros side, I’d expect Hinch to ride Verlander as much as possible, figuring that Hinch believes 3TTO penalty Verlander is just as trusted/effective as any of his relievers at this point. So long as the game is close, I can see Verlander going to 120+ pitches. Not because it’s the optimal usage, but rather to give as much of the pen 2 days off and deprive the Dodgers of an extra opportunity to see those arms.

stever20Member since 2017
8 years ago
Reply to  dannm

LOL about Darvish. The absolute funniest thing I’ve seen this postsesaon for sure…

Totally agree with you on Verlander. I just wonder if it’s a 3-1 game in the 8th with Astros up and Verlander at 120 if we see McCullers in to close the game. With Astros having then Morton available to start game 7 concievably with Peacock available as a tandem. Or do we see Morton closing tonight and then the McCullers/Peacock tandem tomorrow.

Max Power
8 years ago
Reply to  stever20

Rich Hill’s gonna get 3 drag bunt singles.

stever20Member since 2017
8 years ago
Reply to  Max Power

it would be appropriate in this postseason. We’ve seen nearly everything else.

OddBall Herrera
8 years ago

In other news – Brandon McCarthy has apparently been abducted by aliens.

I brought this up on the bullpenning article, why are we all acting like he doesn’t exist? He ended the season with a comparable ERA and FIP to Darvish, yet we’re doing a deep dive into multi-game exhausted bullpen strategy and he’s not even mentioned as an aside.

ShowTime98
8 years ago

McCarthy is risky but i would still use him over Darvish tonight. Dodgers need to save Yu for game 7.

stever20Member since 2017
8 years ago

I have no idea why he’s on the roster. I mean he’s now worked 7 innings since July 20 and given up 6 runs in those 7 innings. His roster inclusion is one of the bigger questions to me of everything LA did.

ghostelephant
8 years ago
Reply to  stever20

I think they wanted a long-relief guy to eat some innings in case the game got out of hand, and McCarthy (as a righty) matched up better against the (predominantly-righty) Astros’ batters than Ryu (a lefty) did.

goyo70
8 years ago

Problem is McCarthy threw six innings in Sept/October and wasn’t very sharp in his previous playoff outing. I’d use him, but on a short leash with Darvish ready to step in. The trouble with Darvish is that he uses the slider a ton (858 in 2017, vs 192 curves). The slider and curve are his best out pitches (.172 and .145 BA against, respectively). The 4seam, sinker, and cutter get hit harder. When he throws them, his change and split-finger (together ~2% of all pitches thrown) have been effective. It would be ballsy, but I’d show the slider off the plate and throw FA, SI, CU, FS.

OddBall Herrera
8 years ago
Reply to  goyo70

Yep – when Hill gets in trouble, use one of your rested guys (Cingrani, Wilson) to clean up the inning, then turn it over to McCarthy on an extremely short leash. I don’t see the benefit of just assuming outright McCarthy is going to be useless and burning Darvish for potential game 7 usage.

medler312Member since 2016
8 years ago

Hill…over/under 4 innings?

I say the guy isn’t getting out of the 3rd inning.

Or…Verlander and Hill have an epic pitching duel throwing the whole series on its ear again.

Dodgers win 2-1 on a 9th inning single, SAC bunt, a simple 4-3 put out, and a perfectly executed 2 out suicide squeeze called by no one in particular…maybe it’s Culberson losing sight of the situation he was in, bunts and…baseball is weird as hell.

Dave TMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  medler312

If Hill doesn’t make it out of the 3rd inning in this game, then the Astros are almost for sure scoring more than 1 run.

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  Dave T

It ain’t necessarily so. A little Gershwin to say that the way Roberts has managed this series you don’t know what he might do if the Astros load the bases with one out in the second without scoring.

johnforthegiants
8 years ago

Agree 100%. The Dodger bullpen is exhausted and has been a train wreck. They desperately need another day off and this is the only way to do it. The concern about Darvish is that his terrible slider day was the result of the balls being used so he’ll be no better, but if that’s the case the Dodgers are doomed no matter how they do it.

stever20Member since 2017
8 years ago

the thing with the ball should be interesting to see tonight. It’s right now for instance 67 degrees in LA and only supposed to get to 69. Game time temp is forecast at 67. So it’ll be interesting to see if that’ll allow the pitchers who throw sliders a better shot.

frankenbop
8 years ago

Sounds like a great plan but only because it omits any discussion of the new anti-slider ball and Darvish’s inability to use it. Still, I’ll bet that Astros fans like it.

Joe Joe
8 years ago

This article reads like a “What would Hinch Do?”.

patagent
8 years ago

This was my exact thought after the last game. The bullpen arms desperately need some rest. Put a guy in who can go deeper into the game. I’ve cooled off on the idea a little bit because it seems like no one can throw sliders right now and Darvish is way more dependent on that pitch than Hill.

goyo70
8 years ago

To me, Wood and McCarthy are probably the key. Try to use Hill deeper into the game. Failing that, use McCarthy to get you to the 6th, and Darvish either 6-9 or as soon as McCarthy struggles. Start Wood game 7 until you hit trouble, then start throwing spaghetti. I would also give a serious rethink to how and when sliders are used if they’re not moving for Darvish, McCarthy, Kershaw, or Jansen. Barnes apparent insistence that Jansen throw then in game 5 (and Jansen’s unwillingness) seems like something they all need to agree upon from the outset.

Matt
8 years ago

You also have Wood available to pitch tomorrow’s game on short rest, so if they used Darvish today, I would suspect he would be in line to start the game. Assuming a relatively close Dodgers win today, this is how I would likely expect the pitchers to line up, obviously with a little variation due to effectiveness or pinch hitting:
Hill: 18 batters/4 innings
Darvish: 18 batters/4 innings
Jansen: 1 inning
Maybe using some of Cingrani/Watson/Stripling to get through part-innings if needed. Ideally avoid Jansen to give him another day off, but obviously if it’s a close game, you use him (unless if Darvish is on fire and pulls a McCullers/Peacock to end it).
Game 7:
Wood: 9 batters-18 batters (2-4 innings), depending on effectiveness
Maeda: 5-9 batters (whenever the 1-5 are up)
Kershaw: 9-15 batters (probably taking the 6-9 guys in the lineup, and then staying through them the next time they’re up
Morrow: 5 batters (1-5 up)
Watson/Cingrani: 4 batters (6-9 in the lineup)
With Jansen pitching 1+ whenever they get close to the end.

Of course, being an NL park you can’t always line things up – if Darvish has only gotten through 12 or 13 batters tonight and is expected to bat in a big spot, you might rather try for the offense to blow it open instead of keeping him around for another turn through the lineup. But if you want to give any of Maeda/Morrow/Jansen an extra day off today, you either need to hope that Stripling/Fields can pitch to the Astros big righties, or you need Darvish to go tonight.

johnforthegiants
8 years ago
Reply to  Matt

The Dodgers have already lost two games in this series when Jansen pitched more than 1 inning after having pitched the day before and didn’t do well. They should really try not to use him at all tonight if possible.

stever20Member since 2017
8 years ago

yeah, but if they’re up 1 after 8, they have to use him.

johnforthegiants
8 years ago
Reply to  stever20

And realistically, I can’t imagine Roberts not using him no matter how much they’re up by. If he didn’t learn after the experience of game 2 that it isn’t a good idea to have Jansen pitch multiple innings with no rest (and evidently he didn’t, because he got himself into the same mess in game 5 by having Jansen protect a 5 -run lead in game 4), I seriously doubt this most recent disaster will convince him either.

Matt
8 years ago

He might learn from his mistakes and try not to use him if they’re up by 5+ (maybe 4+). A big reason he was used for that lead before was because they got all those runs in the same inning, so he was already warmed up. But anything within 3 runs and I’d be shocked if he doesn’t get some action in the game.

stever20Member since 2017
8 years ago
Reply to  Matt

the worst case scenario for the Dodgers tonight IMO in a win is that it’s a tie game and Jansen has to go like 2 innings to preserve the score. Which they absolutely have to do as you can’t win game 7 if you don’t get there.

johnforthegiants
8 years ago
Reply to  Matt

He made the mistake in game 2 and then used Jansen with a 5-run lead in game 4 to set up the same scenario and same disaster in game 5. This doesn’t look like someone who’s going to learn from his mistakes.

tadkumagai
8 years ago

actually, Darvish has experienced in relief when he was praying in WBC 2009. He fit in the role quite well so I think he can handle it when he is asked. However, he publically concerned the slicker ball in his bullpen session yesterday according to his twitter. he especially complained ineffectiveness of his slider with the new ball. also mentioned if his slider is off, he can’t go with other breaking balls either… That’s one thing we will see how it is going to effect on Dave Roberts’ decision.

stever20Member since 2017
8 years ago

I guess a question- do the Dodgers really want the sliders to be good tonight? Because if the sliders are back to normal, that’s going to make Verlander that much tougher. Making their margin for error that much smaller.

alpha309
8 years ago

Trying to plan this out, at this point just isn’t going to work out. The Dodgers need to win 2 games. They need to do whatever it takes to win those 2 games. They should simply say to all their players right now that it is all hands on deck, minus Kershaw tonight, and then hope for another all hands on deck tomorrow. They simply need to win, no matter the short term cost tonight, and if they win tonight they need to take the same view tomorrow.

If Hill is dealing and is unhittable through 5, I think you leave him in until he falters. At this point, I doubt even 2 days of rest is even enough of a break for some of these pitchers. Between the workload and the stress situations (which I think is much more important here) they just are not going to be recovered completely even for tomorrow.

Every option is sub optimal right now. Take the option that gives you the most backup plans.

EasyenoughMember since 2016
8 years ago

In the first few games, and with the ridiculous bunt, there’s been a fantasy on both sides that the game will be low-scoring. Once the expectation is for each side to hit 8+ runs, can’t you just plan on that? Let Hill go six innings and give up five runs…

johnforthegiants
8 years ago
Reply to  Easyenough

Verlander is starting for the Astros. It definitely isn’t a safe bet that the Dodgers will score 8 runs.

I’m not advocating any more bunts, though.

JasonMember since 2016
8 years ago

Typical Cameron article – title makes me say “lol what”, read and come out saying “well that makes perfect sense and they’re idiots if they don’t do it”. Good stuff, will be interesting to see what he does. That pen is so taxed you have to think any fresh arm would be better.

sphenreckson
8 years ago

My idea for the Dodgers is that they should instead use Morrow, Watson, Maeda, and Jansen. I’m probably crazy though.

juddfranklin
8 years ago

Instead Roberts throws all the guys you said he shouldn’t. It worked once. So we’ll see what happens tomorrow.

stever20Member since 2017
8 years ago
Reply to  juddfranklin

Yeah Morrow and Maeda both go 14 pitches and Jansen 19.

francis_soyer
8 years ago

Did I miss who would start this hypothetical game 7 ?

johnforthegiants
8 years ago
Reply to  francis_soyer

Well roberts did what roberts does and got past game 6 but at the cost of using his top 3 relievers yet again. The disasters so far (game 2 and game 5) occurred when there was no day off before (and jansen at least also rested in game 3) so tonight things look pretty desperate. I personally would start darvish, try to get some idea very fast if his slider is working. If so, give him a very long leash, even 6 or 7 innings. If not, get wood in there and hope he can get through the 6th or at least the 5th. Kershaw should be next, for 2 innings or longer if he looks good. Maybe use jansen and maeda for a batter or two. But roberts being roberts he’ll probably start darvish and pull him after 3 innings at the most, then either put kershaw out there until he drops or use him for 2 innings and then turn the game over to jansen/morrow/maeda, which will almost undoubtedly be a disaster. The dodgers are going to have to score a lot of runs to have a chance.

stever20Member since 2017
8 years ago

so I guess instead of tandem starting Hill and Darvish, they decided to tandem start Darvish and Kershaw. With Jansen having an inning probably. And Wood being another option as well. They have some options even w/o Maeda and Morrow.

I think tonight we see only Darvish, Kershaw, Wood, and Jansen pitch. Hill maybe.

johnforthegiants
8 years ago
Reply to  stever20

The problem with this plan is that neither of their tandem starters is likely to do well–darvish was horrendous in his last start and may be bothered by the ball, while kershaw was bad in his last start and has only 2 days rest–plus they’ve wiped out their bullpen. I seriously think giving the ball to wood and seeing how long he can go might be the best strategy but i know there’s no way roberts is going to do that. In the back of my mind i can imagine kershaw producing a brilliant long outing and proving for posterity that he can come up big in the biggest game possible, but as someone who has believed for a long time that his postseason problems have been the result of inadequate rest, this looks extremely unlikely to me.

stever20Member since 2017
8 years ago

The thing is, I think if Darvish were going to be bad, in some ways this scenario would be better. He’s got 2 guys in Wood and Kershaw who will be able to cover a lot longer.

Also regarding Kershaw- his stats on fewer than 4 days rest would really surprise you in playoff career. How about a 2.67 ERA in 33.2 IP. Looking at his log on BR for postseason- his problems have always been the outing or 2 after the short rest outing…..

2 examples-
2013- starts game 1 of the LDS, then game 4 on 3 days rest. 6 innings 0 er. Then starts game 2 of LCS on normal rest. 0 er in 6 innings. Next start though is game 6 on normal rest- 7 er in 4 innings.
2016- starts game 1 of the LDS, then game 4 on 3 days rest. Here he did have his worst short start of his career- 5 er in 6.2 innings. But he had 2 er in 6 innings before giving up 3 in 7th. He then had his appearance in game 5 with 7 pitches. Game 2 of the LCS on normal rest- he gave up 0 er in 7 innings. His next start though- he gave up 4 er in 5 ip.

so I actually think he might not be as bad as you think. It always seems to catch up with him a time or 2 down the line. Well this time, there is nothing down the line.

johnforthegiants
8 years ago
Reply to  stever20

In principle what you write in the first paragraph is right, but in practice i can’t imagine roberts using wood for more than a few batters under any circumstances. That just isn’t how he operates. Regarding kershaw, he’s such a great pitcher that it’s hard (for me at least) not to base my feeling about how he’ll do on some kind of narrative. Either he’s mediocre in the postseason because he has general trouble when he’s tired or he just chokes. Either way he doesn’t do well tonight, maybe not terrible but not very good or very long. Do you have the feeling he’s going to redeem himself tonight? I just can see it.

stever20Member since 2017
8 years ago

I think the juices get flowing for Kershaw and he does really well….

my thought on how Roberts should play it. Use Darvish and Wood to get thru like around 5 innings. Then bring in Kershaw. 4 innings- or until he gets in trouble in the 9th inning- then Jansen. Today would have been his normal throw day anyways.

I avoid Marrow and Maeda at all costs tonight. And Jansen if at all possible.

johnforthegiants
8 years ago
Reply to  stever20

I more or less agree about what roberts should do but i seriously doubt that’s what he’ll do. I think he’ll pull darvish at the first possible excuse and then ride kershaw, morrow, maeda, and jansen the rest of the way. He doesn’t learn from his mistakes.

stever20Member since 2017
8 years ago

yeah. and I think Morrow, Maeda kill him.

johnforthegiants
8 years ago

He’s only going to use wood if it’s involved with some bizarre double or triple switch which he thinks makes him look clever.

MuadDib
8 years ago

,