The Mets Haven’t Done Enough
Over the 50-plus years since their inception, the Mets organization has established a tradition of drama. When they win, they seem to win big. When they lose, they self-immolate in spectacular fashion. If I were to tell you a team were Metsing themselves, you’d probably know what I mean. There are likely many reasons for this — the local media, the size of the market, the team itself — but it seems true, nevertheless.
Despite their penchant for theatrics, the Mets have made the playoffs in each of the last two seasons. They’ve done it despite an avalanche of injuries and all sorts of extracurricular nonsense. They went all the way to Game Five of the World Series in 2015, and had the bad luck of running into the buzzsaw of Madison Bumgarner’s left arm in the 2016 Wild Card game.
They’re by no means done, of course. The Mets still have a dynamic young rotation, and they still have Yoenis Cespedes. That’s a great place to start when building a contender. They’ve also got good secondary players in guys like Asdrubal Cabrera, Lucas Duda, and Neil Walker, and a young bat with a bright future in Michael Conforto. Grizzled veteran? Have some Curtis Granderson. Local hero who’s also a capable utility bat, and can crush lefty pitching? Everybody loves Wilmer Flores. If you believe in miracles, they may even have David Wright (remember him?) back for a game or two. The Mets can play ball.
And yet, they still have so much work to do. The Mets are still on track to go into 2017 with real uncertainty behind home plate and a bullpen that leaves much to be desired — especially once you consider that they’ll probably be without Jeurys Familia for a month or so due to a likely domestic-violence suspension. Jay Bruce still doesn’t really fit onto the roster, especially since the re-signing of Cespedes and the need for Conforto to get consistent plate appearances, and the fact that the National League has yet to adopt the designated hitter.
There are still weeks to go before spring training gets into swing, and there are still plenty of free agents out there. A large number of them are relievers, and good ones at that. The Mets have time to make themselves better and ready for a true contention run. We’ll see if they do that.
We’ve not yet been blessed with Dan Szymborski’s ZiPS projections for the kings of Queens, nor for that matter have we asked Kevin James for his feelings on the subject. In lieu of these, we’ll turn to our Depth Charts assessment of the Mets, and to their official depth chart. Because there are so many balls in the air with their position players (the health of Wright, whether or not Jay Bruce will be on the team, etc.), let’s focus on the bullpen for now. It’s pretty good at the top! Familia, Addison Reed and Hansel Robles can hold their own. It gets fuzzy after that.
The official Mets chart lists Josh Edgin, Josh Smoker, Erik Goeddel, and Sean Gilmartin. The Mets can do better.
Edgin, a LOOGY, had a rocky return from Tommy John, while Goeddel has been volatile when he’s been in the big leagues. Gilmartin has shown he can be a fine long man. It’s Smoker who’s the interesting one. The lefty throws gas (around 95 mph) and has posted big strikeout numbers at every stop. His entry into the big leagues was rocky at times, especially in the home-run department, but he has promise.
Given the injury concerns with nearly every Mets starter (You get a bone chip! You get a bone chip! You get thoracic outlet syndrome! You get Tommy John!), it would behoove the Mets to beef up their middle relief corps. If New York has to dip into their depth beyond Robert Gsellman and Seth Lugo, it’s likely that they won’t be getting too many innings from those replacement starters.
This brings us to Oakland. The A’s have brought Santiago Casilla back to what’s left of the Oakland Coliseum; in doing so, they’ve strengthened what’s already a pretty strong bullpen. Oakland had the eighth-best bullpen by FIP in 2016, and included talented arms like Sean Doolittle, Ryan Madson, Liam Hendriks, and rookie Ryan Dull. With the addition of Casilla, the A’s may be willing to move one of the veteran relievers. Doolittle and Madson may be out of the Mets’ payroll range unless they move Bruce, so Hendriks seems to be the match here.
Hendriks, a righty, posted roughly the same strikeout rate as Goeddel, but has historically been much better about limiting walks and home runs.
| Player | K/9 | BB/9 | HR/9 |
|---|---|---|---|
| Lian Hendriks | 9.88 | 1.74 | 0.63 |
| Erik Goeddel | 9.13 | 3.00 | 0.78 |
He’s also been the 14th-most valuable reliever in the game since the start of the 2015 season. He represents a significant potential upgrade over Goeddel, and an important late-inning arm that the Mets would be able to rely on during Familia’s suspension. Hendriks has three years of control left before he hits free agency, so he won’t come overly cheap in terms of a trade package. The Mets have minor-league talent, though, and they shouldn’t be afraid to use it as currency to contend. There’s also a scenario that involves moving Bruce in the deal while eating some of his salary, since Oakland is going to deploy a combination of Mark Canha and Matt Joyce in right field, but that assumes that Oakland would even be interested in Bruce in the first place.
The Mets should also be looking to re-signing Jerry Blevins to upgrade over Edgin, if they can find the cash to do so. That doesn’t solve the catching situation, of course, but it’s unlikely that Mets can find a cheap and readily available plug-and-play backstop option. Not every team can be the Cubs. Not every team can have a perfect team with only the tiniest of holes on the roster.
The Mets can be a lot more prepared than they are, though. Their relief corps isn’t enough for a team that fancies itself a contender, especially not one with a rotation that could be getting even more familiar with the contents of Dr. Andrews’ office. The Mets could be good. They could be really good. But they still have work to do.
Nick is a columnist at FanGraphs, and has written previously for Baseball Prospectus and Beyond the Box Score. Yes, he hates your favorite team, just like Joe Buck. You can follow him on Twitter at @StelliniTweets, and can contact him at stellinin1 at gmail.
All discussion of the Mets seems moot if 5 of the 8 hitters in their opening day lineup and 4 of the 5 rotation arms are all on the DL by July. But I digress, I hope they’re healthy. They’re a lot of fun when they’re healthy.
Can’t this strain of logic be applied to all baseball teams? The Mets were annihilated by injuries yet still made the Wild Card last year. Same with the Dodgers, maybe even more so, and they won their division. I will totally agree with you they are quite fun to watch when healthy. Looking at this game in April 2016 (which I attended):
http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/11493214/v640597183/must-c-classic-mets-put-together-12run-3rd-inning
Well, it’s about time a national writer/publication has ventured into this space. Nickel and diming the last couple of bullpen spots or borrowing from their SP depth is going to cost them, and they shouldn’t be taking this window for granted.
Down vote for what?? LOL
And another example of why the up/down system is idiotic frankly. I know this is off topic, but objections should have to be spelled out.
Down votes reflect on the voter, nothing else. They are to be ignored in all cases.
“Down vote for what”?!
Did you say that in your Lil’ Jon voice?
I sure hope you did.
I definitely read it in that voice, I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who thought that
Couldn’t the lack of desire to spend on a back of bullpen and back of the rotation be because management feels dipping into FA for those positions is a very volatile risk that could hamstring a club that does not have unlimited funds?
Just guessing here, but I think Sandy is not liking the dollars that relievers like Casilla are getting this offseason. He’s playing the waiting game and hoping a guy like Salas or Joe Smith or Feliz is still out there and come in at a bargain. It’s a gamble, for sure. Could see him rolling the dice on a guy like Hunter or Hochevar as well. Thoracic Outlets for everyone!
playing in the ginormous market of NY and running the team like it’s in Tampa (sorry, tampa). their stud pitching is so damn cheap is the only reason why they ponied up the pennies for Cespedes. the payroll is an insult… the problem is the Wilpons. Sell the team to owners that aren’t (allegedly) Madoffian-broke and you’d have the Mets team Metsies fans deserve.
Isn’t this a little outdated? Their payroll was low over the last few years as they had a crappy team and it wasn’t worthwhile to add another $20MM for another couple wins. But Baseball Reference is projecting their payroll at about $150MM next year, which is, what, three times Tampa’s?
That will come down a little if they get rid of Bruce, but it’s not like they’re in the $80-90MM range these days.
My fellow Mets fans love to denigrate the Wilpons. Such treatment is earned when directed toward the idiot son Jeffey, but Fred the father is a dedicated baseball man and a true Mets fan. There is a segment of this (and likely all), fanbase which believes that all roster problems can be cured quickly and easily by writing checks. History has repeatedly proven otherwise, not the least in Queens.
Nope. It is currently $117m and might go up a little. It was $156m last season, $117m in 2015, $94m in 2014, $101m in 2013, $106m in 2012, etc.
The extra high payroll last year was likely from the extra money that came from the deep playoff run in 2015. This year’s is (so far) right back to where it was previously, unless you expect them to add $40 million somewhere before Opening Day.
They are currently ranked 13th in the league in payroll, were 13th in 2016, 20th in 2015, 21st in 2014, 16th in 2013, and 14th in 2012.
So they have consistently been in the middle or slightly above the middle of the league since at least 2012 (this is all according to Spotrac.com).
They aren’t being run like Tampa, but they are being run like the Royals, who have been very close to their rankings in each of the years I listed. That’s a problem if I’m a Mets fan. As of last May, it was reported that the Mets still owed $58m to the Madoff recovery funds, to be paid in equal payments in the summer of 2016 and 2017: http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/119190/wilpons-madoff-settlement-down-to-58-3m-as-payment-looms
As of 2015, the Wilpons owed $850m in new loans that they had to take out after the Madoff funds went bust: http://www.amazinavenue.com/2015/3/30/8288295/new-york-mets-wilpon-madoff
I don’t know what their interest rate on those debt payments are, but they go out to 2045: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/10/postworld-series-are-the-mets-still-broke.html
I’m estimating that they are essentially out about $60m per year on those debt payments, not counting the remaining $29m payment they need to make this summer to the Madoff recovery fund. So they may be better off next year, but not nearly as good as they would be if they didn’t have 28 years of debt payments still.
Their payroll may well be capped at $160m in today’s dollars for the life of the loans.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYM/2016-payroll-salaries.shtml
it’s not at 117. not sure where you get 117 from. you’re not counting any of the arbitration dollars. the link doesn’t have today’s agreements (reed, familia, tda…) but 2017 payroll will probably sit in the 145-150 range before any other trades/signings.
Ah, forgot about arbitration. That’s from spotrac, which I trust.
Regardless of the total, it is 13th in the league and will presumably still be around there after all teams have their arbitration cases. They aren’t going to suddenly jump to 5th when all the other teams are also going to have arbitration.
And that leaves them right in the middle of the league again. That’s not good enough. They are absolutely hamstrung by the Madoff issue, still. Feel free to reread the links above.
Cots has them at 110 right now with 7 players still left to go to Arbitration. (MLBTR Estimates)
Addison Reed – $10.6MM
Matt Harvey – $5.2MM
Jeurys Familia – $8.7MM
Josh Edgin – $800K
Travis d’Arnaud – $1.7MM
Wilmer Flores – $1.9MM
Jacob deGrom – $4.5MM
Seems like they are going to be well above 117 Mil.
But not well above 13th in the league in payroll after all teams go through arbitration. That’s the point, where they sit relative to the league, not the objective number. They are being run like a mid-level market (not like Tampa but also not like Boston).
So the Mets have not done enough because they need a back of the bullpen arm and a #8 starter?
I get that there are many that think the Mets could be doing more, but IDK. I do not see the stress. Blevens, who many want to resign, was a trade the day before the season started 2 years ago and was considered a throwaway. Lugo and Gsellman were not even in the conversation at the beginning of last year. If they are relying on their #8 starter for anything more than a spot start then lots of things have gone wrong injury wise yet again.
Catcher is a big ??? but we are still looking at a player who has a TON of potential and is still relatively young. Would trading valuable farm pieces for a replacement been a good move? IDK. I do not think most of the Catchers on the market this year represent that large of an upgrade.
The Mets need to stay healthy. They are a bit more of a high risk high reward team then most, but with the way the team is built there is not much that can be done about that.
As for the payroll, I will only be mad if the team is forced to trade or not sign all their young pitching in the next couple of years because of budget issues. I think the fact that these guys are going to all be getting massive raises the next couple of years is what is keeping the Mets a bit gunshy in giving out large FA contracts.
Maybe he had a TON of potential 4 yrs ago. Now TDA has maybe a shred of hope left that he can still be an average ML backstop. His bat has regressed dramatically bc he’s too stubborn to shorten his swing and he’s a lousy catcher. The Mets have ranked at or near the bottom in fWar behind the plate the past 5 yrs. Is that not enough to claim they are ripe for an upgrade there?
And as far as the pen, they are top heavy. Familia (when he comes back), Reed and Robles are strong top 3. After that, it’s pray for rain… at least to the extent that they are unproven. And the point is that they have built around the rotation, so you would think that they would try to protect the SPers with more depth in the pen, let alone that pen depth is a proven formula to succeed.
It doesn’t make sense why they would go this far only to ignore the bullpen. I understand that there may not have been good opportunities to supplement the Catching depth, but they certainly could add to the pen.
And Robles is hiding an immense reverse split. He’s at .176/.259/.318 against lefties but .246/.325/.434 against righties in his career.
I guess that could be a fluke, but he’s run a wOBA that is 70 points lower against lefties in both 2015 and 2016. That’s ok if opposing managers don’t wise up and start pinch hitting with righties against him, but with such pronounced splits, he’s not a great setup guy. He really struggles against all righties.
This is largely the problem, I agree. They are contenders who have some pretty obvious places that they could upgrade that aren’t going to cost a huge amount and they aren’t doing it despite the fact that they are in what is likely a decently short window due to the fact that pitchers explode on the reg
They have a short window? They have the pitching rotation locked in for 3-5 years! They have their middle of the order bat locked in for years. They have a couple good young players that should grow with the team and lots of money coming off the books over the next few seasons many of which could be replaced by quality prospects.
Other then just assuming building a team around young pitching is not a good strategy, why would you assume they have a short window?
Short or not short, their window is open now. Most teams in their situation push their chips into the pot. For example, they could certainly trade a prospect to add a RPer… something they did during the ’15 season. Their system has probably never been this full of good prospects.
Alderson seems to be much more willing to roll with who he has and tinker at the deadline if they are in contention. Thing is that buyers tend to overpay then. It would be easier to address the problem now with the benefit of time, rather than be up against a deadline and overpay during the season.
They can be locked up all they want. It doesn’t help much when you’re paying them to not pitch.
I don’t think building around a young pitching staff is all that smart because they are so volatile, but in this instance it’s more how many of these specific mets pitchers already have injuries/concerns.
Having 1 hitter locked up and some decent players also doesn’t make a good line up.
d’Arnaud hit .268/.340/.485 as recently as 2015, so I guess the calendar turned 2019 while I wasn’t paying attention.
“And as far as the pen, they are top heavy. Familia (when he comes back), Reed and Robles are strong top 3. After that, it’s pray for rain…”
Umm, that’s practically every bullpen in baseball. How many bullpens are 4+ shutdown relievers deep?
Um, check around baseball. It’s not the norm anymore for contending teams.
Regardless of what the perception is around baseball, adding depth to the pen seems like low hanging fruit. Why go this far only to stop a few steps before the finish line?
perfect use of an “Oprah” reference. Well done!
I’m from Philly, so I’m the antithesis of a Mets fan. Nevertheless, I don’t see any big problem with how the Mets are handling this off-season.
Their lineup is respectable, with upside… and some redundancy (a good thing).
The bullpen is top heavy, but workable.
It all comes down to the starting pitching. If the Mets SPs are healthy, they’re gonna be fine.
And if the SPs are healthy in the playoffs, they’re gonna be serious trouble.
I don’t know what this means: “When they win, they seem to win big. When they lose, they self-immolate in spectacular fashion.” Are we talking about games, or seasons? Chokes in the stretch or October? Clubhouse strife causing underperformance? Or what, exactly?
Perhaps the author was alluding to this: With 2 WS titles, 5 pennants and 8 LCS trips, the Mets have had more ultimate success since 1962 than their .481 W% suggests. Of the other 9 teams between .470 and .490 in that time, none has as many pennants, and just one has as many titles or LCS trips:
— Astros .489, no titles, 1 pennant, 4 LCS
— Cleveland, .489, no titles, 3 pennants, 5 LCS
— D’backs .488, 1 title, 1 pennant, 2 LCS (since ’98)
— Nationals .485, no titles or pennants, 1 LCS (since ’69)
— Royals .485, 2 titles, 4 pennants, 8 LCS (since ’69)
— Cubs .482, 1 title, 1 pennant, 4 LCS
— METS .481, 2 titles, 5 pennants, 8 LCS
— Rangers .481, no titles, 2 pennants, 2 LCS
— Brewers .477, no titles, 1 pennant, 2 LCS (since ’69)
— Mariners .470, no titles or pennants, 3 LCS (since ’77)
If you give the Mets a 4-year grace period from expansion, they’re at .495 since ’66. Ten teams are within +/- .007 of that. None has more titles or pennants, and their average is 1.2 titles and 2.3 pennants.
I think it basically means “In conclusion, the Mets are a land of contrasts” i.e. it’s totally vacuous throat-clearing but I very much enjoyed this attempt to evaluate it quantitatively anyhow.
[Insert name of team here] hasn’t shored up the back end up the bullpen yet? In JANUARY? Oh no
You mentioned the insanity that the Mets organization can sometimes be but forgot to mention Mejia, who went from solid bullpen piece to suspended to suspended to banned for life in only 10 months.
Conspicuously disappointing article, especially considering FanGraphs’ high standards. Nick, you mention Oakland’s #8 ranking for bullpen FIP last season but neglected to mention that the Mets finished tied for 2nd in that stat, or that their pen finished 6th in ERA and 2nd in reliever WAR. The Mets are in an odd position because they are talented and have depth but face high injury risk.The title is misleading; in the article, you’re basically writing that the Mets haven’t done enough because they should have traded for a medium-leverage reliever and lack depth beyond their first 8 or 9 starting pitchers. Come on, now.