The Orioles and Nationals Are Suing Each Other. Again.

The best rivalry in baseball right now might not be the Yankees versus the Red Sox, or the Dodgers against the Giants. Instead, it might be the one between the Orioles and the Nationals, a feud that has landed in multiple courtrooms and has been literally litigated almost non-stop for over seven years.

The dispute arises from the teams’ joint ownership of the Mid-Atlantic Sports Network (MASN), though it also seems to have been fueled by what appears to be genuine antipathy from Orioles’ owner Peter Angelos for his team’s southern rival. Back in 2004, when the Montreal Expos were about to move to the District of Columbia, Angelos “went on Baltimore radio station WBAL-AM and pronounced that ‘there are no real baseball fans in D.C.'” Angelos was later the sole dissenting vote against the Nationals’ move, and given territorial rights disputes, having the Orioles on board became a matter of some necessity. So the two teams “worked out a deal whereby the Orioles would hold a majority partnership profit interest in MASN and get to telecast Nationals games at a substantial discount from 2005 to 2011. After that, MASN would be obligated to pay the Nationals ‘fair market value.'”

How Orioles-friendly was that deal?

When MASN was created to broadcast Orioles and Nationals games in the regional territory that once solely belonged to the Orioles, the Orioles owned 90 percent of the network and the Nationals’ stake would increase by 1 percent each year until 2032, when it reached 33 percent.

Despite the deal, which the Sports Business Daily called “one of the most lopsided deals in sports TV history,” Angelos still voted against the Expos’ move to Washington, D.C. And since that deal was struck, the Orioles have resisted MASN’s obligation to pay the Nationals anything close to “fair market value” as required by the contract for Washington’s broadcast rights. Remember, the Orioles still own better than 70% of the network, so they control how much the network pays.

But at issue since litigation began in 2014, amid the boom of television rights fees, was how much MASN would pay the Nationals (and the Orioles, as well) for their broadcast rights each year.

The formula the Orioles and MASN used dictated that the Nationals would get approximately $40 million per season for the five-year period beginning in 2012. But the Nationals sought more than double that.

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On the one hand, the Nationals have a legitimate grievance here. The Orioles want MASN to pay the Nationals on the same level as the Cincinnati Reds or Atlanta Braves. Yes, the Nationals should be earning more than that, but they want to be paid on a similar rate to the Mariners or Red Sox. So, in that sense, Washington might be overstating its case. In other words, the Orioles were trying to lowball their beltway rivals on what “fair market value” was for broadcasting the contests of the erstwhile Expos, while the Nationals were basically trying to get out from under the agreement entirely and act as if they were the region’s sole team. Per the agreement, the teams went to arbitration.

An MLB arbitration panel, called the Revenue Sharing Definitions Committee (RSDC), convened in 2014 and ruled the Nationals should get approximately $60 million per year from MASN.

The arbitrators thought that the Nationals should be earning annual television revenue somewhere in between the two teams’ figures, on par with the Phillies or Astros. The Orioles and MASN, however, simply ignored the arbitrators’ decision.

The broadcaster refused to pay, though, leading the Nationals to send notice of default, and MLB commissioner Bud Selig to threaten to ‘impose the strongest sanctions available’ if the parties went to court. Despite the warnings, the teams and their broadcasters filed papers in New York state court. The MLB was one of the named respondents. The court action came after the Orioles told MLB they would be seeking no less than $800 million in lost asset value, according to a letter obtained by The Hollywood Reporter.

Ordinarily, this would have gone nowhere. Under Article VI of the MLB Constitution, teams are prohibited from suing each other, and any disputes between them have to go through MLB’s arbitration process. But there was a problem: MLB’s arbitration process, in this case, had a slight wrinkle.

Remember Proskauer Rose? We talked about them before as the law firm that represents MLB in big legal fights. Proskauer Rose represented the Nationals in that arbitration – and that led the Birds to cry foul (pun intended):

But the Orioles challenged the [arbitration] ruling [in court] on the grounds that . . . the Nationals’ legal counsel at the time, Proskauer Rose, had represented both MLB and the clubs on the three-owner panel in other matters.

The Orioles went so far as to call this proof of “corruption” and “fraud,” and compared the league to organized crime. The court wasn’t impressed with the hyperbole, but did find that Proskauer Rose couldn’t represent both the Nationals and MLB without a conflict of interest, and the Judge hearing the case vacated the arbitration award.

“Here, there are objective facts that are unquestionably inconsistent with impartiality,” writes [Judge Lawrence] Marks. “Had MLB, the arbitrators, the Nationals and/or Proskauer taken some reasonable step to address petitioners’ concerns about the Nationals’ choice of counsel in the arbitration — or indeed any step at all — the Court might well have been compelled to uphold the arbitral award under the FAA [Federal Arbitration Act]. But MASN and the Orioles have established that their well-documented concerns fell on entirely deaf ears. Under the circumstances, the Court concludes that this complete inaction objectively demonstrates an utter lack of concern for fairness of the proceeding that is ‘so inconsistent with basic principles of justice’ that the award must be vacated.”

On this, Judge Marks was almost certainly right on the law; Proskauer should never have represented the Nationals in the arbitration, and the Nationals almost certainly knew that. So even though the final decision of the arbitrators was likely legally correct, Judge Marks had no choice but to send the case back to MLB’s arbitration panel to do it all over again, at which point everyone – the Orioles, Nationals, and MLB – appealed.

The Nationals appealed because they lost. The Orioles appealed because they wanted Judge Marks to decide the case, rather than MLB arbitrators, irrespective of what the MLB Constitution said. MLB appealed to protect the sanctity of their arbitration process, as they don’t want the precedent of their arbitrations being set aside in court proceedings. (The appeals were heard in late 2015.) And in the meantime, the Nationals wanted the Orioles to do what Judge Marks said and go back to MLB arbitration to do it all again.

Again, the Orioles said no. So the Nationals filed a motion to force their beltway rivals back into arbitration, and said that the cost of the dispute, and the lack of fees being paid by MASN, was impeding their ability to pursue free agents:

MASN’s underpayment of rights fees has already required the Nationals to fund payroll and other expenses from its own reserves, and further delay could require the Nationals to seek new financing,” says the team’s memorandum. “This is not only burdensome in its own right, but it places the Nationals at a competitive disadvantage to other baseball clubs, which typically receive fair market value from their regional sports networks for their telecast rights. Without this added income, the Nationals are handicapped in their ability to invest in efforts to improve the team. For instance, without this added and steady income, the Nationals cannot bring full economic confidence to investments in multi-year player contracts to keep up with the fierce competition for top players — especially when such control over finances is in the hands of a neighboring club.”

This may have been overstated; after all, according to Forbes, the Nationals generate $336 million in annual revenue even with their rivals paying them a relative pittance in broadcast fees. At this point, the Orioles finally began making settlement offers. But because hyperbole is the name of the game in this mid-Atlantic monstrosity, the Nationals rejected those offers – even when the Orioles offered to settle the dispute for the amount of the Nationals’ earlier demands. As a result, the teams had a second arbitration in Atlanta earlier this year.

But before that decision could be rendered, the Orioles took the Nationals and MLB to court again. This time, it was over a dividend that the Orioles had directed MASN to not distribute. You see, the Orioles, based on the pending litigation, decided to withhold dividends in the event the network was directed to pay back monies to the Nationals. But the Nationals wanted that money now, and wanted another arbitrator to decide it. The Orioles didn’t want this new issue decided by that same MLB arbitration panel that had ruled against them before, so they sought an order allowing them to arbitrate the dispute in a different venue.

According to reports from the Hollywood Reporter and The Washington Post, the Orioles cited a $25 million loan MLB made to the Nationals earlier this decade as the reason the latest dispute needs to be seen by an independent arbiter.

Justice Barry R. Ostrager wrote in his decision that “it would be illogical to allow MLB — a potentially interested party — to determine whether MLB itself had a financial interest in one of the parties to the dispute at the relevant time.”

It would seem that the Orioles’ lawyers have a much better batting average than their first basemen. And yes, this is now the second time the Orioles have gone around the clause in the MLB Constitution that says that teams aren’t allowed to sue each other or the league. 

What’s next? Probably more litigation. The dividend dispute will be heard before the American Arbitration Association. Any decision by MLB’s arbitration panel will almost certainly be appealed. And the MASN dispute has grown so heated that whispers have begun that Angelos would rather move the team than lose the fight, though it is unclear how credible those whispers are. Portland has been mentioned among several cities as a potential destination, along with – ironically enough – Montreal.





Sheryl Ring is a litigation attorney and General Counsel at Open Communities, a non-profit legal aid agency in the Chicago suburbs. You can reach her on twitter at @Ring_Sheryl. The opinions expressed here are solely the author's. This post is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended as legal advice.

69 Comments
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CamdenWarehouseMember since 2018
7 years ago

Isn’t the formula used by the Orioles to determine the “fair market value” specified in the deal? Saying the Orioles are lowballing the Nationals, while true, is a bit misleading because they are using the method agreed to by all parties.

averagejoe15Member since 2018
7 years ago

“The formula the Orioles and MASN used dictated that the Nationals would get approximately $40 million per season for the five-year period beginning in 2012. But the Nationals sought more than double that.”

It’s not stated that the Nationals agreed to a formula or that such a formula was in the contact. If the formula used by the Orioles and MASN was specified and agreed to by all parties there wouldn’t be a controversy.

I do wonder what the actual language around “fair market value” was in the contract and why it wasn’t more specific. Maybe there was pressure to get a contract signed and the parties would deal with the “fair market value” issue at a later date.

Jetsy Extrano
7 years ago
Reply to  averagejoe15

This contract sounds from the summary — and the parties’ actions don’t contradict it — like a guaranteed lawsuit festival. I’m amazed MLB lets them get into such a mess.

JCCfromDCMember since 2016
7 years ago

No, it is not. As Judge Marks pointed out in his ruling, the so-called “Bortz Methodology” for computing FMV is not mentioned at all in the MASN agreement. The contract calls for fair market value but does not define how that value is to be determined. This misconception that the O’s are simply trying to apply an agreed upon method seems rampant among O’s fans; it is repeated to often that it has taken on a life of its own. In fact, the Orioles are trying to import their idea of FMV calculation to keep the rights fees (which are shared equally) artificially low so that MASN’s profits (which overwhelmingly go to the O’s) are as high as possible.

The flaw in the agreement that Angelos did not anticipate was the explosion of rights fees, which has defied all predictions of bursting.

CamdenWarehouseMember since 2018
7 years ago
Reply to  JCCfromDC

Obviously, I haven’t read the agreement, but it has been reported to be in there by the Sun “The agreement says the rights fees — which are to be equal for both clubs — should be reset every five years using a formula developed by Bortz Media & Sports Group, a Colorado consulting firm.” and alluded to in the WaPo “rights fees commensurate with the formula in the contract.”.

Can you link to the Marks ruling where he says the methodology is not in the agreement? I haven’t been able to find it.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-orioles-masn-0714-20120713-story.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/in-debate-over-masn-rights-mlb-rules-for-washington-nationals-but-fight-continues/2014/07/29/65a3af4e-1774-11e4-9e3b-7f2f110c6265_story.html

geneticlyperfct
7 years ago

Angelos claimed that the arbitrators exceeded the scope of their authority, largely because they did not rely on the “Bortz methodology” – in particular MASN’s interpretation of the Bortz Methodology. The court tossed this out in its entirety, pointing out that the MASN agreement does not specifically define the methodology to be used at all – and that the RSDC’s methodology was “reasonable on its face.” Reading between the lines a bit, to me the Judge seemed to go out of his way to praise the work of the panel without formally endorsing their award. At any rate, Angelos loses. This is actually a big deal, because the use of the “Bortz methodology” was THE lynchpin of Angelos’s low-balling of the rights fees.

Source: https://www.federalbaseball.com/2015/11/4/9672978/masn-decision-justice-delayed-not-justice-denied

CamdenWarehouseMember since 2018
7 years ago

Thanks! I hadn’t seen the full text of his opinion before. Certainly looks like the Orioles have little to stand on.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
7 years ago

This actually sounds like the worst rivalry in baseball right now, rather than the best. Reading all that made me want to throw up.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Also, FWIW, the NL Central is full of fun these days between the Cubs, Cards, and Brewers. I’d expect people following the NL East to say similar things about the teams over there too. These are way more fun than the simple 2-way rivalries we’re accustomed to.

LHPSU
7 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Why mention the 1st-place, 3rd-place and 4th-place team but not the 2nd-place one?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  Yirmiyahu

Yeah, that, but also last year, which was pretty fantastic.

HowBoutDemOsMember since 2019
7 years ago

“It would seem that the Orioles’ lawyers have a much better batting average than their first basemen.”

Damn.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

I would hope so. The best hitters of the post-war era haven’t cleared 40%, but the lawyers of the post-war era with the highest winning percentage are probably much, much higher than that.

That said, comparing the O’s lawyers to the team’s winning percentage is probably fairer, and equally flattering to the lawyers.

baltic wolfMember since 2016
7 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

He is warming up. Chris Davis finally got a home run yesterday. All Star Game next? 🙂

JoserMember since 2021
7 years ago
Reply to  baltic wolf

Who else would be the Oriole’s required representative player? I mean, how many teams have a player who so well represents the fortunes of the team?

lostatlimboMember since 2017
7 years ago

If you would have told me that a series on legal red tape in baseball would become on of my favorite series on fangraphs, I would have thought you were crazy, but you manage to make this whole topic fascinating. Kudos.

Fun-Hating DorkMember since 2019
7 years ago

This feels like what happens when one of the teams is owned by a lawyer-by-trade.

fjtorres
7 years ago

Time for MLB to force Angelos out.
This is worse than the mess was in LA.

The fans deserve better.

drewsylvaniaMember since 2019🏆 MVP
7 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

Had the same thought. What can MLB legally do to start this process?

fjtorres
7 years ago
Reply to  drewsylvania

Best interests clause?
Start with running the team into the ground with policies limiting the team’s talent acquisition, add unwillingness to get along with the neighbors…

drewsylvaniaMember since 2019🏆 MVP
7 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

Given how crappy the O’s have been recently, I wonder if MLB is already doing that.

…never mind, it’s Angelos.

tb.25
7 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

Force Angelos out? Yea, he’s mucking this up, but the Nationals have been MLB’s baby since Selig birthed them into his city of choice. MLB’s hand in all of this is why the Orioles keep pushing – MLB shouldn’t have any sort of favoritism, but they do.

drewsylvaniaMember since 2019🏆 MVP
7 years ago
Reply to  tb.25

Angelos being out would probably do both MLB and the Orioles a favor.

fjtorres
7 years ago
Reply to  tb.25

You do know why DC was Selig’s “city of choice”, right?
Look at #1 Capitol Street, Washington, DC. 20215

Juneyellescobar
7 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

I couldn’t come up with anything from google- what’s there?

fjtorres
7 years ago

Six hundred politicians angling for free tickets who might strip away the antitrust exemption.

baltic wolfMember since 2016
7 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

It appears his sons are doing a better job, as the hiring of Elias suggests.
Death—everybody’s last visitor—will take care of the rest.

baltic wolfMember since 2016
7 years ago

I can’t see why the Nationals should get paid like Houston and Philadelphia (even though I’m no fan of old man Angelos).
Here’s a link to the populations of the major cities in the U.S. : https://www.moving.com/tips/the-top-10-largest-us-cities-by-population/‘
Houston and Philadelphia are the fourth and fifth most populous cities in the U.S. Washington D.C. does have extensive suburbs (I live near there) but it ranks as no. 22 in terms of population. Houston and Philly have suburbs as well.
It’s a mess and my many Nats-following friends insist the Orioles are trying to cheat the Nats.
I remind them that with these antiquated territorial rights, Angelos and the Orioles could’ve blocked the Nats from moving to D.C.
Look what happened in the S.F. Bay area. The Giants wouldn’t allow the A’s to encroach on their territory when it involved San Jose. But they were willing to allow the A’s to remain in the less affluent city of Oakland (only four miles away by bridge).

srpst23Member since 2025
7 years ago
Reply to  baltic wolf

Well the US dept of OMB defines Metropolitan Statistical Areas (MSAs) that generally are comprised of the urban/suburban area of a city. It lists Houston at #5 (6.9 million), DC at #6 (6.2 million), and Philly at #8 (6.1 million). Based on size alone, I’d say the Nat’s have an argument. Also, how the Marlins have been run is as disgrace, since #7 is Miami (6.15 Million). That they think of themselves as a small market team is laughable.

Fearandloathing
7 years ago
Reply to  srpst23

Exactly. The DC Metro area is one of the largest in the country, it is certainly comparable to Philly and Houston. Strict height caps, a strong historical designation policy, and a long period favoring suburban development over metro development make the argument about city size fairly misleading.

fjtorres
7 years ago

The DC metro area isn’t the “classic” central city surrounded by suburbs but more of a collection of small cities whose suburbs practically overlap.

Fearandloathing
7 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

Seems like a good way of putting it. On the other hand, it is may be the most transient city in the country; tons of transplants and large segments of the workforce made up of g-4 visas and the like.

JohnThackerMember since 2020
7 years ago

It’s also not clear whether the MSA is the correct metric to use for TV rights fandom. The Nationals, Orioles, and MASN notoriously claim most of NC as Nats and O’s territory for blackouts (it’s mostly Braves fans along with the inevitable Yankees and Red Sox fans you get everywhere, though the Nats may well be able to make fans), but there’s at least some truth that people outside the base MSA can be fans, particularly if there’s no intervening team. You’d want to use one of those complicated fandom maps and surveys for a start.

OTOH, when it comes to paid attendance numbers, MSA isn’t quite right either, because there’s a limit to how frequently people are going to travel to a decent selection of 81 home games a year. The Census definition of “urban area” probably is closer to the right metric for that. That’s why NC doesn’t have a team– the Charlotte MSA is about the same in population as St. Louis and Baltimore, but the Charlotte urban area lags far, far behind St. Louis and Baltimore. (Cleveland is the reverse; the MSA is pretty low but the urban area punches a bit above its weight.) (The NC state population is top 10, so a NFL team with only 8 home games is easy to sustain.)

Still no excuse for Miami.

srpst23Member since 2025
7 years ago
Reply to  JohnThacker

I wasn’t necessarily saying that MSA is the best metric to use, just that the DC area is most certainly comparable to Philly/Houston in raw population. Also this argument seems to be about the MASN TV revenue owed the Nats, and I do think that using the MSA is a pretty good proxy for TV rights (since strict TV markets are in household numbers, not straight population). Although DC is also the #6 TV market (Philly #4, Houston #7) according to the always accurate Wikipedia.

JohnThackerMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  srpst23

Oh, it is comparable in population, but MSA for TV rights isn’t quite right. In the particular case, the Orioles have a much better percentage of fans in the DC MSA (all on the MD side) than the Nats do of the Baltimore MSA, and have a greater percentage of the DC MSA than any other team has of the Philly area– again outside the Yankees, who have fans everywhere and thus can get at least some YES money everywhere. It does wax and wane depending on the fortunes of each team.

So a strict comparison to the two largest one market MSAs isn’t quite right, the DC MSA is a one-and-a-half team market. The Astros have some similar problems as the Nats– the Rangers draw much better outside Dallas than the Astros do outside Houston, and the Rangers fandom in the Houston MSA is much larger than the Astros fandom in the Dallas MSA, as each team lives up to its “Texas” vs “Houston” moniker.

baltic wolfMember since 2016
7 years ago

No it doesn’t. Anybody who lives in the D.C. area knows the boundaries between Baltimore and Washington, D.C. are blurred.
How many residents of Annapolis or Columbia work in either city?
Northern Virginia doesn’t count except to make D.C. feel larger. You cannot move in traffic anywhere in the suburbs on a normal work day.
And unlike so many other major cities, D.C. is full of transplants and transients who come to work for a few years and then return to their hometowns.

JCCfromDCMember since 2016
7 years ago
Reply to  baltic wolf

That (DC is a predominately transient population) is largely a myth. Based on census data, DC is actually fairly normal in terms of population stability, and is in fact less transient than cities like Boston or San Francisco. https://www.gwhatchet.com/2016/01/13/we-need-to-stop-calling-d-c-a-transient-city/

Fearandloathing
7 years ago
Reply to  JCCfromDC

That article is specifically addressing short term transience, which shoots down the idea that D.C. changes significantly during administration changes. It doesn’t. There is significantly more evidence that people not from D.C. originally move here and stay long term, attracted to government work, NGOs, etc. D.C. has boasted the highest move-in rates of any city in the US for the last two years, over cities like Dallas, Atlanta, LA, and NY.

See, e.g., https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/12/11/is-your-city-among-top-moving-destinations/?utm_term=.99769676179c

Census data prior to 2016 indicated that net migration was relatively stable, even with high move-in rates. People born in and around the District don’t always want to work in the same niche economies that draw many people here in the first place.

As it relates to baseball, and purely from my own experience dealing with parents and their kids in the District, I’ve noticed that many of the kids take their parents football allegiances but are more open to Washington’s baseball and hockey scene. Long term I wonder if the numbers will bear that out.

Llewdor
7 years ago
Reply to  baltic wolf

Selig basically paid Angelos not to block the move. Under the terms of that deal, the Orioles’ franchise value was given a guaranteed floor, as was their annual revenue. So Angelos was free to make no effort to run his business in an effective way, and instead just cut expenses, and MLB would simply pay him to do so.

DuffMember since 2020
7 years ago

Really cool article – didn’t know anything about it. Super interesting

Dominikk85Member since 2020
7 years ago

Why did mlb even give the owners territorial rights? Imo mlb should not have given the owners that privilege, for example the giants are blocking a can Jose team which would make more sense than an Oakland or Tampa team.

The NY and Chicago owners also have to deal with two teams. Of course not any market can carry two teams but that decision should be on mlb and not a single team. Can’t tell me mlb wouldn’t have found an owner who wouldn’t have done it without territorial rights.

HappyFunBallMember since 2019
7 years ago
Reply to  Dominikk85

Because MLB _is_ the owners, is why, and the owners all want defense against exactly what happened when the Expos moved to Washington. The relocation cost the Orioles millions of fans, and undoubtedly has negatively affected the valuation of the BAL franchise to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. I’m of the opinion that Angelos is in the wrong here, but one can certainly understand why he’s fighting tooth and nail.

fjtorres
7 years ago
Reply to  HappyFunBall

True.
But…
Strictly speaking the Orioles themselves are “intruders” who moved into Washington Senators territory, forcing them out to Minnesota. A second Senators team was forced out to Texas. And in the following years Angelos’ O’s did little to appeal to DC fans.
The money the Nationals are making in DC is money Angelos never really tried to make.
I lived in the DC area a few years after the now-Rangers left, when the old stadium was still usable and the O’s message to DC baseball fans was “drive to Baltimore”.

JLanDC
7 years ago
Reply to  HappyFunBall

The MASN Agreement achieved multiple goals, one of which was to guarantee the Orioles franchise re-sale value. I wish I could tell you what that guarantee entailed but that section of the Agreement is redacted in my copy. But it’s there because the heading is listed in the ToC.

Llewdor
7 years ago
Reply to  JLanDC

I remember that value being reported at the time. Or at least credibly estimated based on other franchise values.

I suspect that analysis was at Baseball Prospectus.

Richie
7 years ago

If you read the ‘Whispers’ linked article, the (local) writer makes clear he feels the Orioles are pretty much no threat to actually leave.

Idle Hands
7 years ago

Glad to see this article, there has been next to zero reporting on this by the Nats beat reporters or the Washington Post. It’s frankly embarrassing. So much disinformation out there and halftruths.

rsvp_nj
7 years ago

ah, despite all of this, I still blame Jeffrey Lorie.

RPDCMember since 2018
7 years ago

“$336M in annual revenue” doesn’t sound that great when you think about all of the operating costs that are on top of a $200M payroll.

Will H.
7 years ago
Reply to  RPDC

The team they own is worth 1.8 billion (as per Forbes), so whatever they still bring in after other operating costs seems like a pretty good dividend…

bethastew
7 years ago

GASP! SHERYLLLL “It would seem that the Orioles’ lawyers have a much better batting average than their first basemen.”

smb11488Member since 2018
7 years ago

The Orioles leaving Baltimore and Camden Yards sitting empty would be a travesty that I hope isn’t a realistic outcome

fjtorres
7 years ago
Reply to  smb11488

Camden Yards wouldn’t be empty for long.
I rather suspect the A’s and Rays would lay claim to the facilities in record time…

Llewdor
7 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

The Nationals would have to approve that move, I suspect.

timprov
7 years ago
Reply to  Llewdor

The Nationals have the right to prevent moving Camden Yards to Tampa?

RoyalsFan#14321
7 years ago

What a complete clusterfuck.

jdbolickMember since 2016
7 years ago

It still blows my mind that MLB was allowed to strongarm the Nationals into existence despite clearly encroaching upon the Orioles’ territory. People complain about Angelos but the reality is that since 2005 Baltimore has not drawn more than 2,624,740 in attendance during a season despite three playoff appearances during that time. In the decade prior to the Nationals’ arrival, Baltimore bested that mark nine times and surpassed three million in attendance for seven of those years.

JCCfromDCMember since 2016
7 years ago
Reply to  jdbolick

Some of that damage was done by the Nationals coming, but much of the damage was done by the O’s to themselves, managing to go from 1998 to 2012 without a single winning team. You could say that the Nats cost them ~20% of their fans, as they averaged around 2.6M from 2002-2005 (which includes the Nats’ inaugural season) to around 2.1M in 2006-7. They continued to decline in attendance after that, but that’s largely because they sucked and fans got sick of getting drowned out by Red Sox and Yankee fans. Those aren’t things that they can blame on the Nats.

JLanDC
7 years ago
Reply to  jdbolick

A careful look at the Orioles attendance records reveals that, yes, they did initially take a small hit but they quickly returned to their pre-Nationals levels and have shown no on-going attendance affect. You have to consider the performance of the team in this context, and they’ve generally stunk more than Angelos himself.

An argument can easily be made that fighting the Nationals has been more detrimental to attendance than the Nationals themselves. There’s no way to know for sure but many, many Nationals fans have said that they refuse to attend another Orioles game until Peter Angelos relinquishes ownership (ahem) one way or another. Had he embraced the Nationals, it’s easy to see how the two teams could have supported each other and cross-marketed to the benefit of each.

Dustin
7 years ago
Reply to  JLanDC

‘ There’s no way to know for sure but many, many Nationals fans have said that they refuse to attend another Orioles game until Peter Angelos relinquishes ownership (ahem) one way or another. ‘

I don’t think that this is as much about Angelos’ litigation against the Nationals, but more because of the fact that many local Nats fans are Nats fans *because* they used to be Orioles fans and grew weary of Angelos’ garbage over the years. There’s a large portion of long-time DC area Nats fans that used to be O’s fans, and used the Expos move to DC as a way of getting out of the hellish baseball relationship with Angelos. And so, I think there’s a lot of animosity built up over Angelos because these fans felt driven away from the team they grew up rooting for in the first place.

Bjd1207
7 years ago
Reply to  jdbolick

In order for market-size/attendance to be the problem, both teams would have to be struggling for attendance beyond that point. If there were not enough fans in the area to support both teams, we’d see it at both stadia. The fact that the Nationals attendance is great, while O’s continue to struggle, is evidence of a difference in product.

elke
7 years ago

And while all this is going on, the Lerners appear to be making a reasonable effort to win, with impressive payrolls, and the other guy apparently could not care less..

bohknowsbmore
7 years ago
Reply to  elke

TBF, their payroll was $160MM last season, good for #8 or so in baseball.

skipwhistle
7 years ago

The sooner the league takes the Orioles away from Angelos, the better for all concerned. They have ruined the Orioles as a team.

JLanDC
7 years ago
Reply to  skipwhistle

The irony is that the because of the skewed MASN Agreement, the Orioles have had MORE money since the Nationals came to town than they would have had otherwise. The annual profits from their ownership of MASN are reported to be in the neighborhood of $60M. This is money that didn’t exist for the Orioles without the Nationals. Have they been putting that back into their player payroll? I doubt it.

JLanDC
7 years ago

MLB may be on the verge of exerting its influence to force to Orioles into a resolution. Orioles owner Peter Angelos AKA “The Miser of Eutaw Street” is in his 90s and apparently has ceded day-to-day control of the team to his son John Angelos. Problem is, when the elder Angelos finally goes to a farm upstate, MLB will have to approve of the new owner and here we have our pressure point. I doubt if Manfred or the other MLB owners- who now have been sued and called criminals by Angelos multiple times– will approve of anyone named Angelos unless they resolve this on-going problem with the Nationals. MLB has already laid the groundwork for this.

Major League Baseball has reached out to the Baltimore Orioles ownership requesting a formal answer on who the current leadership consists of by June, according to multiple sources and first reported by The Baltimore Sun.

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/orioles/peter-angelos-failing-health-prompts-mlb-demand-ownership-answers-orioles

This is the hammer that Manfred will wield to smash the MASN Agreement.

ScottyBMember since 2017
7 years ago

THIS is the longest streak in baseball.

Llewdor
7 years ago

MLB brought this on themselves when they moved the Expos in the first place.

Bud Selig deserves this as his legacy.