The Team That Will Run the Winter

The offseason is upon us. Free agency officially begins tomorrow, as the five day exclusive window ends, and teams and agents are free to begin officially negotiating with anyone they choose. But as we’ve seen in past years, the start of the free agent period doesn’t really set off a signing frenzy; the baseball free agent market moves pretty slowly for most players.

And that’s because teams generally want to kick a bunch of tires before committing to one path, and that tire-kicking includes exploring the trade market, figuring out who is buying and who is selling. The last few years, the league has seen a drastic shortage of sellers, as teams within spitting distance of .500 decided to fancy themselves as contenders thanks to the addition of the second Wild Card and the financial incentives related to making a deep postseason run. The reality of 22 or 23 teams trying to add talent while only six or seven teams were looking to unload veterans made for a challenging trade environment, and resulted in a bunch of teams deciding that free agency was the way to go last year.

This year, though, the free agent market stinks. There just isn’t the kind of impact talent out there that teams are used to being able to throw money at, so the trade market is likely to be even more active than usual. And yet, we might be in a similar position in regards to the ratio of buyers and sellers.

In the AL, the Twins and A’s look like the only AL teams who would likely admit that they’re in the midst of a rebuilding effort. The NL has a few more teams openly looking long-term, but the Braves aren’t going to be selling big leaguers right as they move into their new ballpark, and the Padres and Phillies don’t have a lot left to sell at this point. Once again, it looks like there are going to be a lot more teams looking to add than subtract this winter.

That puts teams on the bubble in an interesting position. While no one wants to tear down a potential contender, this is a great market to be shopping premium talent, given the lack of quality free agents and the shortage of sellers with desirable players to move. Without alternatives to compete against, sellers with elite players to move could ask for absurd returns, and might actually get them from desperate buyers who are focused solely on the short-term upgrade. And that set of circumstances puts the White Sox in a particularly great position to make sure the Hot Stove Season runs through the south side of Chicago.

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The White Sox were one of the bubble teams who went the other way last year, acquiring Todd Frazier and Brett Lawrie to try and upgrade their infield in an attempt to win while Chris Sale and Jose Abreu were still in their primes. It didn’t work, as the team limped to a 78-84 record, and now have even more evidence that they just don’t quite have enough talent to make a run with this team as assembled. Trying one more time to bolster the secondary players on the team, in a weak free agent market, seems like it’s more likely to fail than succeed. This time, Rick Hahn should probably take the opportunity to be the auctioneer with some one-of-a-kind pieces to sell.

Obviously, Chris Sale is the first name everyone thinks of when they think about the White Sox blowing it up. But the reality is that the team could do much more than just make a blockbuster deal for their #1 starter.

Jose Quintana is also better than any other pitcher on either the free agent or trade market, and is under club control through 2020 at bargain prices. Abreu has lost some value by going the wrong way offensively the last few years, but he finished the second half on a big upswing, and remains vastly underpriced relative to what it will cost to sign an inferior player like Mark Trumbo. Todd Frazier remains a solid player, and though he won’t bring back a premium return with just one year left before he hits free agency, he might command nearly as much in return in this weak market for bats as he cost the White Sox last year.

And then there’s the bullpen. The price of relievers went through the roof last winter, and after what we just saw in the postseason, the price of bullpen arms is probably going up again. This is one area where there are free agent options, but there are going to be teams who want to upgrade their relief corps without committing five or six years to a guy like Aroldis Chapman or Kenley Jansen. And the White Sox have two guys who would work as quality alternatives to the big ticket closers.

David Robertson is the name-value guy, and has been one of the best closers in baseball for a while now. His command went the wrong way last year, but the stuff is still there, and with just 2/$25M left on his deal, he now costs about as much as a decent setup man. But the real chip in the White Sox bullpen isn’t Robertson; it’s Nate Jones.

The fireballing setup guy was quietly one of the best relievers in the game last year, harnessing his velocity and turning himself into a dominant right-hander. And because the White Sox signed him to a cheap long-term deal a year ago, when he was just fresh off returning from Tommy John surgery, he’s one of the most cost effective relievers in baseball for the next few years. Jones is set to make $1.9 million next year, $4 million in 2018, then had options for $4.6 and $5.2 million in 2019 and 2020; assuming those are picked up, any team acquiring Jones would owe him a total of $15.7 million over the next four years. That’s less than what one year of a guy like Jansen or Chapman will cost.

Jones could easily be this year’s Ken Giles, the target of a team that wants a flame-throwing relief ace for multiple years but doesn’t want to get into a free agent bidding war. And there are a number of teams in baseball that will prefer to convert their minor leaguers into guys like Jones rather than throwing money at trying to buy wins in this free agent class.

In Sale, Quintana, Abreu, Jones, and Robertson, the White Sox have five valuable trade chips, and that’s assuming they would prefer to keep Adam Eaton, who has turned himself into one of the best outfielders in baseball too. If they put Eaton on the blocks too, they’d have six of the most coveted players on the market, and would have something for almost literally every buyer out there.

Now, maybe the White Sox don’t want to blow things up to that degree, but the circumstances are in their favor if they want to run the winter. There aren’t many other teams capable of opening up shop in this way, and there won’t be another winter with this kind of dearth of quality free agents for a while. If Rick Hahn wants to, he can make himself a kingmaker this winter, and potentially set the White Sox up in a great position for the next decade.

The next few years will be rough if they do gut the roster like this, but with the ability to command premium returns this winter, the payoff could well be worth it. I know they’d rather win with Sale as a member of the franchise, but given what this winter’s landscape looks like, the White Sox should probably choose to be the team that takes advantage of a serious seller’s market.





Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.

46 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
MattabattacolaMember since 2026
9 years ago

So basically the most talented rebuild ever?

thraser11
9 years ago

This is the direction I want the team to go in, but knowing Jerry Reinsdorf, more half measures are on the way resulting in another 78-82 win season.

tfox1127Member since 2016
9 years ago

I’d like to see something that shows this works… obviously the Cubs have hit at a ridiculous rate with this group of young guys but that’s almost never the case.

Even if you just consider selling Sale, when has something like that actually setup a team for 10 years? CC? Greinke? Price? Lee? Can anybody name the pieces those guys brought back?

You have Sale for three more seasons and he’ll still be younger than Lester was when we was the big veteran presence added to the Cubs rotation.

mike sixelMember since 2016
9 years ago
Reply to  tfox1127

How do they get better, w/o making trades?

John WickMember since 2018
9 years ago
Reply to  tfox1127

Greinke brought the Royals their starting SS and CF and a prospect that was part of the deal that brought them James Shields. Worked out OK.

TKDCMember since 2016
9 years ago
Reply to  John Wick

Ya, but besides that one, name one other.

tramps like us
9 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

Francisco Liriano, Joe Nathan and Boof Bonser for (one season of) AJ Pierzinski

TKDCMember since 2016
9 years ago
Reply to  tramps like us

My comment was sarcastic. I guess it didn’t come through for ~61 percent of readers. My apologies.

Shirtless George Brett
9 years ago
Reply to  John Wick

To be fair, Alcides Escobar is not very good.

ottoneu
9 years ago
Reply to  tfox1127

Price was a weird deal for the Rays. They did a three team deal and got Adames, Smyly, and Nick Franklin back. If I recall correctly, most people were disappointed with the result of the trade, the Cubs seemingly got a heck of a lot better return with Russell in the Samardzija trade earlier in the month.

The CC trade was centered around Matt LaPorta (who was gonna be huge). The Brewers ended up sending the Indians Michael Brantley as a PTBNL as well.

Lee returned Carlos Carrasco for Cleveland.

Greinke got the Royals a haul that contributed greatly to their title. Cain, Escobar, and Odorizzi. And then he got dealt for Segura.

Three years of Sale is more valuable than any of those pitchers were when they got moved. I think the Sox would be wise to consider trading him for a pair of Red Sox prospects, or something along those lines. Elite talent can be had for pitchers right now.

Max Power
9 years ago
Reply to  tfox1127

CC and Lee brought back an MVP candidate a couple years ago in Brantley and a Cy Young contender in Carrasco. The Indians have had a winning season 4 years in a row, almost won the WS, and looked primed for at least another 3 years.

Lou BrownMember since 2017
9 years ago
Reply to  tfox1127

All those players were closer to free agency when they were traded. It’s not fair to compare the types of players you listed brought back with the types of players Sale could bring back.

2 guys were traded with 1+ years of control though, so we can look at their hauls.

Both times Price was traded have been beneficial to the teams sending him away. Toronto got Daniel Norris for 1 year of Price and he has a chance to be a stud. The prior year Detroit sent Tampa Drew Smyly who is a solid SP, and Willy Adams who is one of the best prospects in baseball.

The Royals got Lorenzo Cain from Milwaukee for 1.5 years of Greinke, and they also received Odorizzi whom they flipped to TB for Shields for 2 strong seasons.

We are actually in uncharted territory with Sale, because I can’t recall a player as good as he is with so much surplus value on his current deal being traded.

OtterMember since 2016
9 years ago
Reply to  Lou Brown

Yeah, I’m not sure they could get both Benintendi and Moncada for Sale, but we’re talking something nuts like that imo.

jimbo22s
9 years ago
Reply to  tfox1127

The Indians received Brantly from MIL for CC and Carrasco from PHI for Lee.

tfox1127Member since 2016
9 years ago
Reply to  tfox1127

OK so a couple of these teams got a valuable piece or two back but I still don’t see any as valueable as three years of Sale… even if you hit on one of the four that you get for him (which seems to be a fair expectation?) three busts and a Cy Young candidate gets you right back to where you started

Max Power
9 years ago
Reply to  tfox1127

A Cy Young candidate 5 years later on a team with (hopefully) multiple top draft picks and prospects from other trades that panned out is more valuable than a Cy Young candidate on a 78-win team.

output gap
9 years ago
Reply to  tfox1127

Right back where the White Sox stand is unable to compete effectively despite one of the best cores in the game. So yeah, unless JR opens up the payroll spigots, Sale will net the Sox plenty of single game ticket sales and no playoff appearances, and a QO draft pick (if they still exist).

The problem with the White Sox is they cannot fill positions with replacement level players. Every year, there are negative war black holes all over the lineup. It should be easier to get 0-1 war per spot but they have shown no ability to do it. They chase LaRoche and Shields and other declining vets at middle market prices and then those guys fall off a cliff, and the WS budget is filled out and they can’t fill those spots with real production.

lesmashMember since 2017
9 years ago
Reply to  tfox1127

“Even if you just consider selling Sale, when has something like that actually setup a team for 10 years?”

Bartolo Colon from the Indians to the Expos for Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips and Grady Sizemore.

tfox1127Member since 2016
9 years ago
Reply to  lesmash

Sorry I’m not trying to make it sound like it can’t happen. I’d like to know how often it does. Even the fact that you had to go back that far to find an example might be part of the point.

It seems like the most probable case of trading this group of talented 25-30 years old is having a similarly talented group of 23-28 year old 5 years from now… worst case is a bunch of busts.

I’d rather see them try to win with this solid core than trade them for a chance of one 5 years from now.

JediHoyer
9 years ago
Reply to  tfox1127

You can actually do both… For example…

Sale + Robertson + 5 mil for blackmon, parra’ s bad contract, rodgers, freeland. Cut parra, Blackmon in center, rodgers is a top 5 prospect in baseball, and freeland is ml ready back end starter with mid rotation ceiling.

Abreu +3 mil/ year for duda and dom smith. Duda at first, add a prospect in 50-75 range.

Todd frazier + a few mil to the Dodgers for Willie calhoun and a low uside guy like trevor oaks. Saladino plays 3rd.

Or frazier for puig and an arm.

Just an example of a few trades where you give up the quality contracts you have for shorter contracts plus prospects, while actually keeping payroll roughly the same. It gives the teams in playoff contention higher floors and the same payroll flexibility, while the Sox get more future upside and can remain competitive.

output gap
9 years ago
Reply to  tfox1127

White Sox pro scouting has not shown any ability at all to fill out their roster. They’ve spent heavily in trades and dollars to patch holes since the winter of 2014 and it’s net them some atrocious outcomes:

Free agency:
Rollins (0.0 war), Melky (1.2 over 2 seasons), LaRoche (-1.4), Jackson (-0.1), Navarro (-0.2), cost ~$65 million, output -0.5 war

Trades: Shields (-1.4), Samardzija (2.6 + comp pick), cost: Semien (4.3 war + control period), Phegley (2.1 plus control period), Bassitt (1.4 + control period) and $25 million for Shields.

Why would this offseason, with more buyers and less talent supply, end up any different?

stuck in a slump
9 years ago
Reply to  tfox1127

CC netted the Tribe Brantley, who has provided four years of above average offense until his shoulder injury, we’ll have to see how that plays out. Lee got the Tribe Carrasco, who has been ace like lately. If both of these guys get and stay healthy, they could really be major reasons for continued deep postseason runs for the Indians. In both cases, the prospects they received back for their stud, soon-to-be free agent pitchers who weren’t going to re-sign with the team hit 25% of the time. So in these deals, it took a bit of time for them to really work out, but the timing was nearly perfect and the results of just two of the eight players from both deals make it completely worth while.

Shirtless George Brett
9 years ago
Reply to  tfox1127

Are you forgetting the original Lee trade? AKA: The worst trade ever?

To Expos:

Bartolo Colon
Tim Drew

To Cleveland:

Cliff Lee
Grady Sizemore
Brandon Phillips
Lee Stevens

Cleveland is still seeing returns off that trade to this day.

Max Power
9 years ago

Cleveland had a population boom about a year after the arrival of Grady Sizemore.

JJWattsArmBrace
9 years ago

This is what I cannot, for the life of me, fathom: Why would the Sox only trade one of Quintana or Sale? Keeping one to win 4 or 5 extra games for your 70 win team accomplishes nothing (if anything, it hurts you), and neither will be under contract when the prospects whichever one is traded for are major league ready. Every person I see talking about the White Sox acts as if it’s either/or or neither. The only logical paths are to trade BOTH or neither.

I get it, blah blah blah, the other Chicago team won the World Series so we just can’t tank yadda yadda yadda. Bull. The White Sox best case scenario is being a real contender in two years, and that would require a substantial payroll increase, which obviously hasn’t been realistic in the past, and is unlikely to be realistic in the future. Even if, somehow, they managed to put together a real playoff roster in 2 years, their window would be short with Quintana and Sale two years closer to free agency. I see no other path other than a complete rebuild.

Dooduh
9 years ago

Because it depends what the return would be. And we’ve seen teams make the post-season w/o multiple ace SPers. It’s one of the common modern fallacies of the game that you need several aces to make a run. That just isn’t so.

Say the Astro offer Musgrove, AJ Reed, Laureano, and Teoscar for Quintana… Those are ML-ready players…

j6takish
9 years ago

The white sox of the past few years have been beyond frustrating to me. They had the hard part down, a young cheap cost controlled core of sale, Q, eaton, rodon and Abreu. The team just never put any effort into acquiring any players to fill out the roster around them. I know there’s some hindsight bias here and we can never know for sure, maybe the sox *DID* offer contracts and were turned down. Just last year, dexter fowler, asdrubal Cabrera, Denard span, and Howie Kendrick all languished in free agency and ended up signing fair contracts. Mark Trumbo, Ben revere (twice), Carlos ruiz (twice), Danny Valencia (twice) were all available for a next to nothing in trades and the team did nothing.

I don’t trust the white sox to seize the opportunity to sell, they had chances to win the past few years and chose to do nothing

j6takish
9 years ago
Reply to  j6takish

Yunnel Escobar was available for basically free as well

ZonkMember since 2016
9 years ago

The amazing thing is that despite having all that value you listed, they are still miles away from contending. Just goes to show how much trash is in the remainder of the roster. Rodon and Anderson are building blocks, literally everyone else is overpaid, or stinks. Or both.

OtterMember since 2016
9 years ago
Reply to  Zonk

I wouldn’t say miles… they can pretty easily upgrade DH and catcher; they’ll have to move some prospects for a centerfielder (unless they take a flyer on Carlos Gomez). But this requires them spending money. If the Shields contract wasn’t on the books, maybe they could make this work. But I’m not sure where they’re going to find a cheapish 2 WAR centerfielder. They also need a 5th starter, but they might be able to do that on the cheap.

JediHoyer
9 years ago

What’s even better is they aren’t a small market team and could theoretically eat some money. Eating half the money on sale, quintana, frazier, Cabrera, robertson, and abreu is roughly ~40 mil. Factor in losing 20 mil in revenue from putting a bad product on the field would still leave 20 million to spend on the I.f.a. market. So they could get big league ready pieces and spend money to create a second wave of prospects that would be roughly 3-5 years behind the first group.

But, but, but, kenny Williams.

JediHoyer
9 years ago
Reply to  JediHoyer

Obviously I meant 40 mil in cost savings, and apparently left out the eating money to increase prospect return portion.

Abreu to the Mets for duda and dom smith is interesting to me.

kricket755
9 years ago

Well, TFOX, in regards to finding a deal of an ace that worked recently, the Royals did have ’14 and ’15 as world series runner up/champ after dealing Greinke for Cain, Escobar, Odorizzi, and Jeffress. They had Cain (4.8 war in ’14, 6.4 war in ’15) and Escobar (3.2 war in ’14, 1.4 war in ’15) as cheap, effective starters. They also used Odorizzi as the 2nd most valuable trade chip in the deal they brought them James Shields (3.2 war in ’14) and Wade Davis (3.1 war in ’14, 2.0 war in’15). I think that is the blueprint for using an ace to propel a rebuild.

kricket755
9 years ago

Sorry. A few people beat me to the punch on this.

lesmashMember since 2017
9 years ago

Dave – is there any possibility to see a follow-up article suggesting good trade partners and the types of players and/or prospects the White Sox might get in return? I would like to see what an industry expert thinks is a good return on these players.

Thank you for considering this idea.

Dave TMember since 2025
9 years ago
Reply to  lesmash

He wrote such a post back in July before the trade deadline – http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/finding-a-fair-price-for-chris-sale/

Graves
9 years ago

The title is a misnomer, it should read “The Team that could run the Winter.” It has been 8 years since the ChiSox made the Post Season. They continue to refuse to make the hard decision to blow it up. The Cubs made that decision just a few years ago and their fans survived. It feels like the only way they blow it up is if they first blow up their front office.

Thanks

Kevin Bannon
9 years ago
Reply to  Graves

The problem with the Cubs / White Sox comparison is that the Cubs invested a ton in infrastructure and player development while they were blowing it up. Yes, they got some young talent while this was happening, but they also built the structures and processes needed to nurture that talent.

The White Sox have not and will not invest in scouting and development to the extent they need to. If they trade these pitchers for prospects, most likely those prospects will bust because the Sox simply can’t develop them.

Bronnt
9 years ago

The Braves are kind of in denial about where they are. A lot of their general positioning implies that they believe they can contend this season. Otherwise, Julio Teheran could be an interesting trade chip, and even more marginal pieces like Nick Markakis, Tyler Flowers, and Jace Peterson could end up being moved.

JediHoyer
9 years ago
Reply to  Bronnt

I actually think the braves would be in on quintana! I don’t think they should, but I could very easily see them being somewhat shortsighted. Inciarte, allard, and demeritte for Quintana and frazier.

deb81162
9 years ago

The CHW 1st need to get rid of Kenny Williams and Rick Hahn before trying to trade anyone. The history of these 2 are horrible.

Psychic... Powerless...
9 years ago
Reply to  deb81162

IMO, the biggest problem is Jerry Reinsdorf. His payrolls are typically in the top half, but he goes cheap when it comes to management — all his GM and manager openings go to either internal candidates, former members of the organization (like Ventura), or first-time GMs/managers. How about conducting a legitimate search for the most qualified candidate?

ADeletedAccount32765893427
9 years ago

I’m going crazy? Todd Frazier just played the last season of his 2yr/12mil contract right? Unless you’re suggesting that teams would pay prospects to have him on the roster through the winter???

/s

I think the elephant in the room is: Do the White Sox really have the player development/scouting personnel needed to handle a rebuild like this? The club seems to have something of a problem getting non-pitchers through their system. Maybe they really aught to stick to buying veterans that they can project easier? Might be better than letting their current people try to pick prospects..

JediHoyer
9 years ago

Ok, crazy, he’s going in to his final year of arb, projected for 13 mil and change.

They did get abreu and eaton right on the position side thru trade and I.f.a. tim Anderson looks like an above average player. Collins hit pretty well post draft. Like all organizations they aren’t perfect. They have been really bad at buying veterans imo. Shields, cabrera, frazier, navaro, laroche, Lawrie. Those five names have provided like 2 war off the top of my head for something like 60 mil so far and cost some prospects on top.

Brian Parsons
9 years ago

I have to agree, AdamWest. The last couple of years, the Sox have seemed to turn a bit of a corner in drafting, it’s the developing of players that has me worried. Tim Anderson is the first position player to do well with the Sox since Beckham’s rookie year. Will Chris Getz help in the player development area? Does this team have people in place that can not only choose the right players to trade for and develop them into quality major leaguers. It’s time we find out. Going into next year with another half hearted attempt at a rebuild on the heels of a Cubs title will make for a very quiet G Rate Field next year.

unc@dukeMember since 2022
9 years ago

Its hard to think that a team with the 6 of the top 10 (or so) trade options would be in a position to be selling.

I agree with the premise of the article, but I think something should be said for how there are very few dominant teams in the AL currently. You have the Red Sox, and most likely the Yankees will be stronger next year. If the Indians return all of their injured assets, then it would look pretty tough, but the Tigers, Royals and Twins don’t strike me as teams ready to take over the Central. I think the White Sox are in a tough position this offseason, but could be justified in going for it one more year.

EarlWeaver
9 years ago

As a White Sox supporter, I am not a season ticket holder and get to few games each year, so if they blew this up I wouldn’t be inclined to be offended. I’d be willing to wait a few years for them to get good enough to compete for the Central again. They have to decide if they are closer to a World Series with Chris Sale or if they would be able to position themselves for one later if they moved him.

The method they have used to this point may not be wrong, but it hasn’t worked. If they are self auditing like a good front office should, they’d know they need to try something different. To this point, their pro and amateur scouting leaves a lot to be desired. James Shields, case and point. They got stuck holding the bag there when everyone knew his performance was declining. They either didn’t have the information or had it and chose to ignore it.