The Tigers Are Trapped

Last winter was the winter of Cole Hamels trade conversation. As it became more clear the Phillies were going to hold on for the time being, it became necessary to try to forecast the midseason trade market. Hamels was obviously going to be out there. And then people wondered about Johnny Cueto. On the one hand, it made sense, with Cueto due to become a free agent, and the Reds seemingly not very good. But the Reds also wanted to win — everyone wants to win — and in the middle of May, the Reds were caught in that in-between position, with as many wins as losses. That’s not a good place to find yourself, when you’re on the verge of having to rebuild. Since then, though, the Reds have lost 60% of their games, so they’ve at least gotten clarity. These Reds ought to sell. While nobody likes losing, at least losing has made the Reds’ decision easier.

Where the Reds know what they ought to do, though, the situation has grown increasingly complicated in Detroit. Many have been predicting the Tigers’ coming demise for a while, and though that might be overstated, it’s not an organization on the upswing. It’s more of a win-now ballclub, but it’s a win-now ballclub with about as many losses as wins, and a few days ago Miguel Cabrera went and hurt himself. For the next six weeks — roughly half of the remainder — Miguel Cabrera will be replaced by not Miguel Cabrera, and that’s a huge void for a team that’s been struggling for a month and a half. The Tigers, I’m sure, would love to know how to proceed. Unfortunately, nothing about this is simple. The Tigers are navigating a ridge while they’re fully exposed.

Consider that, on May 22, the Tigers were 26-17. Consider that, since then, the Tigers have had the worst record in the American League. And consider that, the other day, Cabrera went down with a bad calf strain. Do you buy, do you sell, or do you do nothing? It seems like a tough choice, but it appears Tigers fans themselves have been heavily influenced by recent events:

tigers-buyers-sellers

The majority of those voters say “sell”, and while the samples are technically limited here, these sorts of polls tend to even out fast. Most of those who vote vote to sell. They don’t think this team is going to do anything, and David Price is about to become a free agent. Ditto Yoenis Cespedes. Why not cash those guys in? It could help the future that at present seems somewhat bleak. In fact, the Tigers could even try to get out ahead of the market, and pull a premium. The team could stand to re-stock its system.

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The problems are obvious, though. Of late, the Tigers haven’t been about selling. And even now, the team’s still barely above .500, and there are pieces in place. The Tigers are a game and a half out of a playoff position. It’s not like Cabrera is going to be lost forever. There’s a strong argument to be made that, if anything, this roster should be solidified. Who’s really buying the Twins? Are other contenders not every bit as flawed?

The most important recent information is the loss of Cabrera. Assuming Cabrera returns on schedule, and assuming he’s okay at that point, the projections say his absence would cost the Tigers about a win and a half. As a consequence, the Tigers project out as about a .500 team. Their playoff odds are just 27%, and think about that win and a half. We have the Tigers projected to finish at 81.3 wins. The Orioles, 82.8. The Blue Jays, 83.4. Add Cabrera and the Tigers close that gap. Another contender might make a trade-deadline splash. Cabrera’s injury is essentially the opposite. It robs the Tigers of one of the game’s best players, and that’s obviously a blow, if short of crippling.

There’s some consolation, however, beyond just the idea of Cabrera returning in August. Over the last five years, when Cabrera has started, the Tigers have won 56% of their games. When Cabrera hasn’t started, the Tigers have won 59% of their games. It’s a tremendously small sample, but it’s at least evidence that the Tigers don’t fall apart when Cabrera is missing. And you can look at the timing, here. The team’s down one Cabrera, but Alex Avila was recently activated from the disabled list. Victor Martinez has hit a lot better since he came off the disabled list. And while Justin Verlander hasn’t looked good yet in his four starts, most of his stuff is there, so he could be crucial stretch-run rotation insurance.

As one important player goes away, other important players return, and the Tigers are projected to score 4.4 runs per game. The Tigers already have scored 4.4 runs per game. The offense shouldn’t fall apart, and the emergence of James McCann allows Avila to cover first base a lot of the time. McCann could stand to improve his receiving work, but his hitting has been better than expected, so the Tigers can’t complain. There’s still strength in the outfield corners. Martinez should look a lot more like himself.

The issue with the Tigers is it’s really easy to see the strengths, and it’s really easy to see the weaknesses. So it’s really easy to see the team making a run for the playoffs, and it’s really easy to see the team slipping well below .500. Our projections still like them more than the Twins and the Royals, but the Royals have a six-game edge. The better play might be for the wild card, but every team is a potential contender there. Right now, we have the Angels and Blue Jays winning the wild cards. The Jays are projected to finish two wins higher than the Tigers. The Jays are also likely to make a midseason upgrade. The Angels, perhaps less so. The Tigers are just barely behind, but they might not be able to do much, outside of add a reliever or two.

This is a bad place. The Tigers are a contender without being a strong one, and the years to come don’t look that sunny. There are pieces to sell, but nothing that could completely change the organization’s fortunes. The Tigers wouldn’t get much for Rajai Davis. The Tigers won’t be able to issue Yoenis Cespedes a qualifying offer, but he’s also just a decently good corner-outfield rental. And David Price would be a rental, and last year’s rental lefty fetched…Yoenis Cespedes. Good talent, but not blockbuster talent, and the Tigers would get compensation for losing Price as a free agent. The value of trading Price now is the difference between the trade-market return and the draft-pick return. And then you have to factor in the lost value down the stretch in 2015, since without Price the Tigers would about be giving up.

The Reds were trapped, until they lost enough to get clarity. The Tigers have lost, but to this point those losses have just dropped them into the same trap the Reds lost their way out of. The team’s good enough to try to improve, but it’s also weak enough to take apart, and the entire American League is at least on the periphery of the race. Given opposing potential routes, maybe the best way forward for now is to do nothing. Do nothing as a front office, and see what the team does. A cold spell makes the decision easier. A hot spell makes the decision easier. And as for alternating wins and losses? Then nothing’s easy. The Tigers aren’t in the worst position in baseball, but they are in perhaps the least clear.





Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.

114 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
8MileKyle
11 years ago

Kind of was in the sell boat until I really sat down and thought about it. The wild card right now is paramount for the Tigers, because this is their last year in which they have a shot at the playoffs. Next year, the pain begins. Might as well cash in all the chips. Do they have any movable parts? I don’t know. Their minors are pretty barren. Two of their minimum salary pieces; Greene and Castellanos, are damaged goods. But if you’re going to be pot committed, which they are, might as well try to increase the odds of being all in.

Ryan
11 years ago
Reply to  8MileKyle

We just need an SP, we would be within a half game of first if we had Scherzer. Simon, Greene, Verlander have all done bad while the rest of the team has done their job. It’s just, we have 3 guaranteed losses out of the 5 SP we have. Just do whatever it takes to sign Cueto and get that rotation we used to have. I’d take our old rotation over our new offense anyday. Let’s get Price, Cueto, and Sanchez

TWTW
11 years ago

If you nerds still want to be able to congregate here and talk spreadsheets, Id consider renaming this article before the PETA liberals move to shut down fangraphs.

Jackie T.
11 years ago
Reply to  TWTW

What?

RMD
11 years ago
Reply to  Jackie T.

#Trollin

Brett W
11 years ago
Reply to  TWTW

C’mon people, that was funny.

everdis0
11 years ago
Reply to  Brett W

The Red Sox are going to win it all this year, TWTW.

Matt
11 years ago
Reply to  Brett W

Even funnier since I first read that as “PECOTA liberals move to shut down fangraphs”

Paul G.
11 years ago
Reply to  TWTW

I give a down vote to whomever down voted this comment. Unless you thought it was a really bad joke, in which case you are excused.

I down vote bad jokes
11 years ago
Reply to  Paul G.

And so I down voted this one too.

Rekt
11 years ago
Reply to  TWTW

BOOM! This comment is hotter than Red Robin Jalepeno Coins.

Yosted
11 years ago

One thing that has to be considered is that their owner (Mike Ilitch) is 85 years old and has made it clear he wants to see a WS title. Not saying it is likely, but I don’t think he necessarily cares about ruining the team for 5 years if it means a little better of a chance at a ring.

milkmoney11
11 years ago
Reply to  Yosted

I’m pretty sure Ilitch doesn’t even know what state Detroit is in at this point.

Saga
11 years ago
Reply to  Yosted

As a Tigers fan, and an apparently a soulless one at that, I sorta hope Ilitch would just shuffle off and let the team get on with having a future.

Admiral Akbar
11 years ago

It’s always a trap.

cpjackson
11 years ago
Reply to  Admiral Akbar

The only remaining course of action, then, is to be Batman. Because always be Batman.

DUTCH4007
11 years ago

I was on board with the Tigers selling (losing on purpose is marginally better then losing while trying to win) but the more I looked at it I do not see much hope in 2016-2018. I think this is the last time the Tigers have a realistic chance at a title. Throw caution to the wind try and pull something off with Price and Cespedes on the team. Let the rebuild start in the off season knowing it may take a little longer and hurt a little more because we they tried to pull off one last playoff run.

francis
11 years ago
Reply to  DUTCH4007

For Phillie fans, this article is an opportunity to experience time travel.

They may be able to squeeze out one run out of this team, but it’s not really likely. They need a lot of

Come November they should sell it all, starting with Price, Kinsler, Soria, Sanchez and V-Mart, and ending with Miggy.

There’s no need paying Miggy all of that money to be some kind of Kobe Bryant figure.

Or they can try to go the Yankee route and just cycle in 30 something free agents and international signings at top dollar for ten years. Trying to make a couple of tweaks to get them over the top is denying how far from the top they really are.

francis
11 years ago
Reply to  francis

* I was going to finish this sentence, but it actually reads better left blank:

“They need a lot of”

Lanidrac
11 years ago
Reply to  francis

Perhaps, but who would be in the market for a 1B who could afford to take on Miggy’s contract? If they’re going to wind up eating half the contract or so, they might as well just keep him as a marketable face of the franchise with one of the more palatable mega contracts out there.

francis
11 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

I think Baltimore could take a shot. They have a spot for him and probably some budget for it. And there’s always Preller …

But you may be right. Actually, I could see them letting Kinsler, Soria, and VMart go and still have a decent offense.

Sam
11 years ago
Reply to  francis

You do know that, come November, Price won’t be on the team anymore, so he can’t be traded. Who is taking the Kinsler or VMart contract? And sell Miggy? C’mon. Your idea is nonsense.

Ullu Ka Patta
11 years ago

Unfortunately there’s no halfway for the Tigers, because they have absolutely no one to step in and replace traded pieces, unless they get major league ready talent back in the deal. Some other teams (Cubs, Mets, Nationals) could both buy and sell thanks to their depth.

As a result, selling would look so bad that I doubt the Tigers will do it. They are on the fast track to Phillie-dom.

Mike Illitch
11 years ago

I will ride this team into the effing ground if it means I get a championship this year.

Illitch kids
11 years ago
Reply to  Mike Illitch

Dad, no! Stop!

Mike Illitch
11 years ago
Reply to  Illitch kids

Kids, I won’t be around for more than six months with the way I’m inhaling this cheap-ass pizza.

Dano
11 years ago
Reply to  Mike Illitch

Pizza Pizza!!

Greyson
11 years ago

One of the main problems is, what happens if the Tigers actually get to the playoffs? Right now their playoff rotation would be Price/Sanchez/Simon/Verlander. That isn’t great, and they don’t have the bullpen to band-aid the issue. I see the Tigers as being in the same boat the Brewers were in the season Prince left. Good enough to get in the playoffs, but not good enough to do anything there. Plus, what would they sell if they try to reload? Steven Moya is hitting .240 or so in AAA, Buck Farmer has been terrible in his stints in the majors, Devon Travis is struggling in single A, and Austin Kubitza has an ERA over 5 in AA. Kevin Ziomek 23 of 24 and is still in single A, and Beau Burrows can’t be traded–and those are their 6 of their top 7 prospects (!). [Not the most sophisticated stats, but all of them really have struggled.] Only Dixon Machado is valuable, but he needs to stay in case Castellanos never pans out. They would sell all of their decent prospects low. Reload with what, exactly? That’s why they need to sell. Price and Cespedes could fetch prospects that would be top 10 in the Tiger’s system (weak farm, not amazing prospects). Their most valuable piece is JD Martinez. I don’t know how high Dombrowski is on him, but 4 years of team control on a right fielder on pace to hit 30+ home runs for his second straight season would fetch by far the biggest return. Certainly not ideal, but if the Tigers think now is peak Martinez, this would be the perfect time to sell him.

TWTW
11 years ago
Reply to  Greyson

spoken like someone who only looks at spraycharts instead of watching the games.

Devon Travis plays for the Blue Jays. Perhaps you mean Derek Hill? Not that the average basement-dweller on this site deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Ben
11 years ago
Reply to  TWTW

What exactly is your problem?

TWTW
11 years ago
Reply to  Ben

several divorces, crippling gambling debt, alcoholism, high cholesterol, outdated political beliefs and math illiteracy.

TWTWhttp://twtwsports.blogspot.com/
11 years ago
Reply to  Ben

As you can tell from all my stated problems, I am very lonely. Please call or write.

William Hart
245 Jordon St
Danville, VA 24540-2631
434-793-4396

http://www.whitepages.com/name/William-R-Hart/Danville-VA/2mx5ewh

TWTW
11 years ago
Reply to  Ben

^ This man is a fraud. Anyone who has seen a single one of my tweets or read a single article by me knows I’m from Danville, Kentucky.

John Havok
11 years ago
Reply to  Greyson

Devon Travis is struggling where?

Greyson
11 years ago
Reply to  John Havok

I knew that. Sorry about that my bad.

Greyson
11 years ago
Reply to  Greyson

Derek Hill

Matt P
11 years ago

I don’t know. The Tigers have one quality starting pitcher. They’re depending on Soria to keep saving games despite a bad FIP/xFIP and don’t really have a bullpen. Soria goes down and they’re done. Cabrera and J.D Martinez have been their only elite bats so far. If V-Mart is really done like his numbers suggest then that’s one fewer guy to save them.

Cespedes and Price would return a mint in prospects. If they don’t wait too long then they can probably get something in return for Soria and Simon also. Maybe even a small bit for Davis. If you can get a good enough deal then Iglesias and J.D Martinez can be traded.

We’re talking three elite prospects for Price, Iglesias and Martinez plus another five or six solid ones for the players mentioned above as well as Soria, Simon and Davis. Add a few good draft picks from finishing poorly for two years in 2015 and 2016, about $50M to spend on free agents and you can build a quality club by 2017.

8MileKyle
11 years ago
Reply to  Matt P

I think you’re vastly overrating the value the Tigers would get back, particularly from Price and Cespedes. You’re essentially saying they would get back one of the best farm systems in all of baseball with all their trades.

Todd
11 years ago
Reply to  8MileKyle

Er, none of the pieces the Tigers have would get elite prospects back. Everyone knows the As overpaid for Lester, and that was for a longer period and with a 2nd pitcher. Iglesias would never, ever fetch an elite prospect back.

Buck Rotgut
11 years ago
Reply to  Todd

The A’s overpaid for EVERYTHING last year.

state the obvious
11 years ago
Reply to  Todd

J.d martinez prolly can snag an elite prospect. Though no need to sell him.

huh
11 years ago
Reply to  Todd

you don’t think a 25 year old who plays a premier position with a lot of club control and who already is a top SS (if not THE top SS) in the AL would bring back a top prospect?

Robert Hombre
11 years ago
Reply to  Matt P

Observance: The draft pick for the 2016 season is unlikely to aid in 2017, owing to how the draft works. 2019-21 is more likely.

Also: the ‘eliteness’ of the prospects that Price and Martinez would return – it seems like ‘elite’ might be an overreach, for at least Price. ‘Solid,’ likewise an overreach for Simon and perhaps Davis. 2017 might be more than a little optimistic.

Rekt
11 years ago
Reply to  Matt P

That is the high point of stupid to deal Iglesias when he’s young and arbitration eligible, what, in 2020? Iglesias is the end result of rebuilding, not the piece you get rid of to rebuild.

george
11 years ago
Reply to  Matt P

why on earth would they trade team controlled players like iglesias and jd for some prospects that could hopefully become players like jd and iglesias?

Nick
11 years ago
Reply to  Matt P

Yikes. Is this a serious post? They wouldnt get ONE elite prospect back for any of that, let alone an entire farm system worth.

Sam
11 years ago
Reply to  Matt P

And why, if you are trying to build, would you get rid of your young and cheap talent (Iggy, JD).

Dombrowksi
11 years ago

The Tigers may seem trapped, but it is all but guaranteed that they are buyers. As mentioned, Illitch is very old and his health is declining. It wouldn’t be a surprise to see the Tigers add even more salary and make some upgrades as they have been very aggressive in the past. Also, The Royals and Giants have shown that sneaking in to the playoffs isn’t much different than winning 95 games.

Miles Edgeworth
11 years ago
Reply to  Dombrowksi

I also present Exhibit C: The 2006 Cardinals. Not even Mr. Wright can tear down that piece of evidence.

Carlton banks
11 years ago

Can someone tell me why 2015 tigers don’t equal 2014 Phillies?

CC AFCMember since 2016
11 years ago
Reply to  Carlton banks

No Ruben Amaro?

Buck Rotgut
11 years ago
Reply to  Carlton banks

A competent GM?

Doug Fister for Robbie Ray, Ian Krol and Steve Lombardozzi
11 years ago
Reply to  Buck Rotgut

Competent GM my nutsack

state the obvious
11 years ago
Reply to  Carlton banks

Because ryan howard was never miguel cabrera.

francis
11 years ago
Reply to  Carlton banks

They are more like the 2011 or 12 Phillies

Matt C
11 years ago
Reply to  Carlton banks

Dave Dombrowski is arguably a top 10 GM all time
Miguel Cabrera is a top 5 offensive player in the league.
JD Martinez is a great player.
Victor Martinez is still a great hitter.
Jose Iglesias is one of the best all around SS in the league.

Really a better question would be, what similarities do they show other than they both gave out a couple questionable contracts? And the one questionable contract the Tigers gave out is to one of the greatest hitters of all time.

Contrary to popular belief the Tigers have a pretty young core. Their starting RF,CF,LF,SS,C and 3B are all 27 and under and they have a GM that can turnover a roster better than just about anybody. In 2 years he took a World Series team(the 2012 Tigers) and basically stripped them of all their starters save for a couple and still took them to the playoffs.

The optimist
11 years ago
Reply to  Matt C

I see I’m not alone in thinking that the Verlander contract is solid!

TWTW
11 years ago

Back in my day, we took horse carriages to the games. Not these new-fangled automobiles that all the kiddies are recklessly high-tailing around in these days.

TWTW
11 years ago
Reply to  TWTW

this TWTW is an imposter.

TWTW
11 years ago
Reply to  TWTW

No, I am the real, the only, TWTW.

TWTW
11 years ago
Reply to  TWTW

False. Your green username doesn’t even link to my fantastic blog like my black username does. How old you think I am? I drive a ’69 Ford not a horse-drawn carriage.

Jesse Jackson
11 years ago
Reply to  TWTW

why’s it gotta be black

TWTW
11 years ago
Reply to  TWTW

Why are you scamps so keen to be me all of a sudden?

wjylaw
11 years ago

As a Tigers fan I’m really looking forward to the 2018 team lead by the roughly $75 Million trio of Verlander, Cabrera and V-Mart.

Carlton banks
11 years ago
Reply to  wjylaw

Why?

Buck Rotgut
11 years ago
Reply to  Carlton banks

Masochism?

RCp28
11 years ago
Reply to  Carlton banks

Sarcasm?

DJK
11 years ago
Reply to  RCp28

SARCO-MASOCHISM!

cornflake5000
11 years ago

Tigers fans might find this amusing, but here in Chicago, the White Sox still talk like they’re in this thing even though this season mirrors the last two and we all know how that ended up. How funny would it be if the Tigers kicked off their rebuilding plan before the Sox do.

Lanidrac
11 years ago
Reply to  cornflake5000

I guess they’ve let their improbable 2-game sweep of the Cardinals go to their heads.

Pretty Tony
11 years ago

They can’t be sellers! If this era of Tiger baseball doesn’t win a title, Detroit will be pissed.

Then they must be buyers? If this team makes the playoffs with a healthy and productive heart of the order of Cespedes, Cabrera, V Mart, and JD Mart, coupled with Price, Sanchez, and either a return-to-form Verlander or Cueto/Hamels/Shark, they have a shot, right?

But their bullpen…………maybe standing pat is the right move?

Nick
11 years ago
Reply to  Pretty Tony

They have a fantastic chance if they get in. The playoffs are basically 100% random. All you need to do is get in.

Lanidrac
11 years ago
Reply to  Pretty Tony

Look at the bright side. At least you won’t burn down your own city in celebration.

carterMember since 2020
11 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

Even though we wish they would.

Pretty Tony
11 years ago
Reply to  carter

HAHA GOOD ONE YEAH WE DO HAVE A LOT OF ABANDONED HOUSES AND POOR PEOPLE HAHA

Patrick
11 years ago
Reply to  carter

Why, exactly, would anyone wish that a group of people would burn down their city? What do you aim to solve with the burning of Detroit? Fewer low-income Americans? Fewer minorities? This is not Jerusalem. This is not Damascus. No one here is interested in burning the city down so other people in other towns can sleep more easily knowing that a relic of 20th century Americana is finally dead and gone. Go meet your neighbors, man. You might learn a thing or two.

Buck Rotgut
11 years ago

They are not just trapped, they are doomed.

Dave Dombrowski
11 years ago

Don’t worry. I always find a way to screw over another team around the Trade Deadline. We’ll be clinching the division title by the end of August.

judging by your last few trades
11 years ago

The team you’re going to screw over will be the Tigers

Peter
11 years ago

They should pick up Jason Frasor at least to shore up the bullpen. Royals just DFAed him for some reason.

steex
11 years ago
Reply to  Peter

He may be worth a flyer for the Tigers given their overall bullpen performance, but it’s not all that difficult to understand why the Royals would DFA an aging reliever with a 1.67 WHIP when they have no shorter of even better (and younger) guys in the bullpen.

Sinnycal
11 years ago

Listening to sports radio in Detroit (I know, I know, but I’m in the car for hours every day), everyone here seems convinced the Tigers can just go out and acquire Cole Hamels, but I never hear any suggestions for how they’d do it. Last year they managed to pull off the deal for Price, but it only served to highlight the perils of being a buyer without a farm system. With nothing but major league pieces of any value, they could only bolster one position by weakening another. Come playoff time, they had no center fielder and an even weaker bullpen than they would’ve had without the trade. It doesn’t seem they’d be able to upgrade any more efficiently this year. They will basically have to straddle the line between buying and selling once again even if they commit to going for it.

jim fetterolf
11 years ago
Reply to  Sinnycal

Maybe they could get Hamels by also taking Howard or another albatross contract in exchange for a class A minor lottery ticket, then use Howard ’til Miggy comes back, then DFA Howard? Ilitch wants a winner and he can’t take his money with him.

state the obvious
11 years ago

If only they had prince fielder.

Mark Geoffriau
11 years ago

I’m honestly torn. If I look at it objectively, I’d say the rebuilding process should absolutely begin right now (and probably last year).

But I love Miggy. I want him to win a World Series in Detroit, I want him in Detroit until he’s an embarassment, and I want him to enter the Hall of Fame as a Tiger. I don’t want him to endure his last 3-4 good years on a rebuilding team, and I don’t want to see him in another uniform.

So…double down and see if you can scrounge together enough pieces to make one more run at it? I guess? I don’t know. I hate this.

Blue
11 years ago

“Our projections still like them more than the Twins and the Royals.”

Gonna give you a hint–that means your projections are basically worthless.

Paul
11 years ago
Reply to  Blue

Gonna give you a hint-nobody in their right mind will trust your biased viewpoints over the projections.

model, a
11 years ago
Reply to  Paul

All models are wrong. Some are useful.

Blue
11 years ago
Reply to  Paul

If your prediction at this stage suggests that the Tigers are a better team, your model is wrong.

octelium
11 years ago
Reply to  Blue

Gonna give you a hint – They could have a better record then both the Twins and KC for the rest of the season and still be in third place…..

Slugerrr
11 years ago
Reply to  Blue

The Twins and Royals don’t give a f*** about your projections.

Slugerrr
11 years ago
Reply to  Slugerrr

Aren’t those the same projections that picked the Red Sox to get first place in the AL East? How’s that working out?

Pirates Hurdles
11 years ago
Reply to  Slugerrr

…and the same projections that basically nailed the entire NL playoff race.

Alexander the Average
11 years ago

The Tigers have dropped 12 of their last 13 games started by guys not named Price, Sanchez or Simon as their opponents have averaged 7.5 runs per game and scored at least 4 runs in all 13 of those contests.

A trade for even a decent starting pitcher would most likely be a big upgrade for the Tigers. The first pick-up would eliminate the Ryan/Lobstein/Farmer spot. Also wouldn’t rule out another guy coming in and pushing Verlander (or shut down for the season) or Simon to the bullpen either.

As for who they would/should trade? Every team (even the Tigers) have some decent mid-level young prospects down in their mid-minors that could be packaged to nab a rental player for half a season.

Randy Smith
11 years ago

Is Brad Ausmus available?

I mean a a catcher…he looks like he’ll need a new gig soon….

DBRunsMember since 2025
11 years ago

Does the return you get from selling two months of David Price and Yoenis Cespedes outweigh the probability-weighted return you get from making the playoffs (and receiving two comp picks when Price and Cespedes walk)? I don’t think so. You stand pat.

DBRunsMember since 2025
11 years ago
Reply to  DBRuns

Edit: forgot Cespedes can’t be offered a QO

busy scouting t-ball
11 years ago
Reply to  DBRuns

I would trade cespedes and a mid tier guy like dixon machado if you could get seattle to pony up tajuan walker.

Nate
11 years ago

Are you high? Cause even Jack Zduriencik wouldn’t make that trade if he were.

mike_hunt
11 years ago

DD has mad some bone head moves the last few years…willis) and J.v is on the decline and what exactly has avila done? Keeping nathan a year longer than he should have. Don’t thnk ausmus was a fit for the tigers… they need a firey emotional guy the loss of max didn’t help either.. so in the end is it a wonder the Tigers are an average team? I say keep cabrarra, v mart, jd Jose Iglesias, kinsler, James McCann and kick jv, simon,and the rest! Retool for next year….

forgo911
11 years ago
Reply to  mike_hunt

So how would you get rid of this massive contract that JV has? And besides, bar a few aweful innings, JV has been decent, at least a 4 starter

Keith
11 years ago

How about they fix the bullpen. That is always have been there problem

Swfcdan
11 years ago
Reply to  Keith

Their bullpen has always been their problem, but this year their starting rotation is too. Losing Mad Max, and JV a shadow of his former self rids you of two aces, and they only have David Price to make up for them. The rest of their rotation is pretty awful, a deal for Hamels and they can still win that division.

Mike Lowry
11 years ago

Can we package trade Dembroski and ausmus? Another Dembroski deal? Like the Doug fister deal? Like the fielder for kinsler plus we still pay fielders contract deal? Like the Devon Travis for Anthony Gose deal? Please for the love of tigers baseball no more deals unless it’s a package deal to get rid of Dembroski and Ausmus!

Stevie Nets
11 years ago
Reply to  Mike Lowry

I bet EVERY general manager in MLB right now would make that same exact trade that Dombrowki is still being wrongly criticized for.

*for those who don’t remember the trade: Doug Fister (who is also a free agent after this season) for Robbie Ray (who is under team control thru 2017 then 3 more arbitration eligible years after that).

I’ve lost track how many times I’ve heard or read someone refer to the Fister trade as “Dombrowski’s worst trade ever, etc”.

I’d be surprised if Fister even gets any kind of guaranteed offer come free agency.

Mike lowry
11 years ago
Reply to  Stevie Nets

Ok did u forget that after that DD made another awesome trade Robbie ray for Shane Greene? So it’s actually worse Doug fister for Shane Greene who is now in the minors so much for team control

Doug in D.C.
11 years ago
Reply to  Mike lowry

Yeah Tigers fans need to stop with the whole “the Fister trade sucked” talk. You guys were 100% wrong as Fister is all but done.

I remember a few beat writers saying after the trade that the Tigers organization felt Fister was on his last legs and now less than 2 years later it appears they called that perfect as Fister looks like a shell of his old self having lost 3 MPH of velocity in less than 2 years.

The uproar by the fans and media the days following the trade got even worse when a story came out quoting an unnamed GM saying that the Tigers had never shopped Fister around to other teams, etc…..

Dombrowksi then came out trying to explain his reasoning for trading for Robbie Ray. He went on to say that Ray was more or less someone they had hand picked off of a short list of pitchers they had identified as being guys who were close to MLB ready and I think being left-handed was also part of the criteria.

The actual call Dombrowski made on that day when he gambled on Robbie Ray over Doug Fister appears to be the right one.

richard
11 years ago

I would fire brad. Hire kirk Gibson as manager. Brad has lost more games for us by him being stupid. U don’t leave in a guy who leaves the tying run on base.you go to the bullpen . Everyone but David price stinks this year as a pitcher. Verlander, needs to go to the bullpen. He’s not the same pitcher he was.

You want to hire
11 years ago
Reply to  richard

Sir Shakesalot as the manager? what?

davisncMember since 2016
11 years ago

Hey. Super edgy to make fun of someone’s serious health issues. The downside is that it makes you look like a fucking asshole.

R Masters
11 years ago

Gee, it would be great to get Cueto or Hamels – maybe a couple of decent relievers as well, but where are the resources to get them? Cespedes and Price would only be rentals, and would not bring a lot. I think it would be foolish to tamper with the core of the team: Miggy, Iggy, J.D., Vmart. Kinsler’s a good player with a big contract, but he could be shopped. Verlander – that’s a hopeless case. He can’t be traded because of his contract. You can only hope he gets his mojo back. Otherwise, he’s a millstone. I had about given up on Castellanos, but lately he’s been swinging the bat well. Maybe he’s coming out of his funk. The problem is basically pitching, and I really don’t see how that’s going to get fixed. Too much wrong, and not enough resources to fix it.

@bobbleheadguru
11 years ago

Tigers = Sellers is an interesting mental exercise, but it is not happening.

Why?
The division they play in. They can outspend other teams in the AL Central by $50MM/year.
Why worry about prospects when you can do that? They are NOT playing in a division with the Yankees, Angels or Red Sox.

Key Point: They DO NOT NEED TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. They only need to be competitive through late September, to keep those ratings up, so they can preserve a potential mega contract renewal with Fox Sport Detroit.

MtnCaddy
11 years ago

I’m in the STAND PAT camp. Here’s why: the minors are barren so leave ’em alone to replenish. We’ve nothing real likely to rock the boat to trade, so play who we got, give the youngsters some playing time and wait for Miggy and a starter or two to come around and we’re there. Easy as pie!

Watches Everyday
11 years ago

I know I’m a fanatic which means part lunatic, but Kyle Lobstein – you better not take long to shake the rust off…..this team needs you?

Jesus that sounds as bad as I thought it would.