The Tigers’ Next Move Should Be Alex Gordon

“I don’t care about the money,” (Mike Ilitch) said. “I want the best players.”

The Tigers owner made that comment at yesterday’s press conference introducing Jordan Zimmermann as the newest member of Detroit’s rotation. For sure, Ilitch has indeed backed up that comment with significant spending over the years, giving out big money deals to acquire guys like Prince Fielder and Anibal Sanchez while still retaining players like Miguel Cabrera, Justin Verlander, and Victor Martinez. The Tigers have consistently run some of the highest payrolls in baseball over the last decade, and Ilitch clearly isn’t looking to rebuild, given his own age and that of most of the team’s players.

But while adding Zimmermann should help stabilize the rotation, the Tigers should not yet be done spending. If Ilitch is serious about not caring about his budget — he stated he’d even be willing to go over the luxury tax if need be — he has a real chance to back up those words this winter, because the Tigers were not one Jordan Zimmermann away from being the best team in the AL Central. Even with Zimmermann, they don’t currently look like one of the five best teams in the American League.

Over at our projected WAR by position grid, we can see that the Tigers currently rank 21st in projected catcher WAR, 24th in projected third base WAR, 24th in projected left field WAR, 22nd in projected center field WAR, 23rd in projected starting pitcher WAR, and 30th in projected relief pitching WAR. In other words, this team still has some pretty significant problems, and Dave Dombrowski’s stars-and-scrubs approach to roster construction left the organization with a huge gap between their best players and their depth pieces. While Zimmermann is a good first step, he’s not a panacea, and this is a team that shouldn’t be looking to go half-in on contending.

So there’s work to do, but if Ilitch is serious that money is no object, he may very well have to push up towards the luxury tax threshold, and potentially even cross over it. Between Cabrera, Verlander, Martinez, Zimmermann, Sanchez, Kinsler, Mabyin, and K-Rod, the team is on the hook for around $135 million in 2016 salaries, since the Braves are picking up part of Maybin’s contract. They also owe the Rangers $5 million for Prince Fielder, however, so they’re really at around $140 million for just their guaranteed commitments. MLBTradeRumors estimates their five arbitration awards would cost them $17.3 million, but they could drop that down to $12 million by non-tendering Neftali Feliz. Still, that puts the team at between $150 and $155 million for 12 players.

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Even if everyone else on the roster was a league minimum guy, you’d be looking at another $7 million, so the Tigers current 2016 payroll is hanging around $160 million. They spent $173 million on their 2015 Opening Day payroll, and realistically, they’ll probably need to go above that to improve the roster enough to see themselves as a contender this year. At the bare minimum, they need to make at least two or three more upgrades, with the bullpen, the outfield, and the back of the rotation looking like obvious places where replacement level players currently occupy too much of the depth chart. Given that it’s a weak free agent crop of relievers, I’d expect that the team will probably turn to the trade market to add bullpen depth, so for now, let’s confine their spending to the outfield and getting one more starting pitcher.

Given that the Tigers are roughly $30 million away from the luxury tax line, we’ll assume they’re probably going to be out on the top-tier of outfielders; Justin Upton or Yoenis Cespedes would take up almost all of that space by themselves, leaving them dumpster-diving for a starting pitcher and likely forcing them to pick between league minimum relief options on the trade market. Unfortunately, there isn’t really a good middle-tier of outfielders this year, with the drop-off after the big four proving fairly substantial. They could have been a fit for Dexter Fowler or Austin Jackson before trading for Maybin, but that deal likely puts them in the market for a corner outfielder instead. And the corner OF market, after the big four, kind of stinks.

I like Steve Pearce as a free agent bargain, and Steamer projects him for +2 WAR if given an everyday job, but given that he’s never had an everyday job before, he probably isn’t enough of an upgrade to represent the kind of improvement the team should be looking for. If they went with Pearce, they may have enough money left for one more good starting pitcher — assuming Ilitch was serious about his “money doesn’t matter” comment — but if they’re planning on going with more of a back-end innings-eater type, they’ll probably need to get a better outfielder.

So, how do we get the Tigers a substantial improvement in the outfield while leaving enough money for another starter and some relief help? My suggestion: outbid everyone for Alex Gordon and backload the contract.

Of the big four free agent outfielders, Gordon is expected to land the cheapest deal, given that he’s heading into his age-32 season and a lot of his value is tied to his defensive performance. The crowd estimated that he’d land a five-year deal for $18 million per year, though the crowd is usually low, so maybe something like 5/$100M might be more realistic; that’s the guess Jon Heyman put out there.

But while Gordon’s age is going to limit most suitors to offers in that four- or five-year range, there’s no real reason the Tigers need to stick to that plan. If there’s one thing Ilitch’s spending patterns have all had in common, it’s that he’s been willing to take on future dead money in exchange to get players who can help in the short-term, and the team hasn’t been shy about signing players to big contracts that extend towards a player’s 40th birthday. The end of these deals won’t be pretty, but given that they’re already headed down this path, there’s no real reason to draw the line on a guy like Gordon and say that you won’t pay him past age 36.

And if you offer Gordon a six-year deal, there’s plenty of time to push the weight of the contract onto years where the team isn’t going to contend anyway. Say, for instance, the team gives him $110 million over six years, the payout structure could be something like $10M/$15M/$20M/$21M/$22M/$22M. The end of that deal is going to be painful, no question, but the 2018-2020 Tigers are already likely going to be ugly, and trading from non-contending years to try and win in the last few seasons where Cabrera, Verlander, and Kinsler represent an actual championship core is a trade-off worth making.

And if you get Gordon for $10 million in 2016, there’s plenty of room left to make a few more upgrades on the pitching side of things. Instead of settling for Mike Pelfrey or Bartolo Colon, the team could afford to spend on a Wei-Yin Chen or Mike Leake, and still have enough left to trade for a few arb-eligible relievers instead of looking just for young cheap guys who might be undervalued. A Gordon/Chen/reliever trio might cost the team $30 million in 2016 additions, pushing them right up against the luxury tax, but it also probably adds something like +6 WAR to their roster, pushing them squarely into the contention tier.

If Ilitch wants to show that he really doesn’t care about the money, then there’s a path forward for the Tigers to start 2016 as potentially the favorites to win the AL Central. Take Gordon away from the Royals while adding two quality starters and a couple of bullpen upgrades, then hope for health from the older core players, and 85-95 wins is certainly within the range of reasonable expectations. As it stands, the Tigers are probably more of a .500 team, even after adding Zimmermann, so they shouldn’t be done yet. With an aging roster and an aging owner, they’re the kind of team that should push their chips in on as large a short-term upgrade as they can get.





Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.

92 Comments
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Anthony
10 years ago

Isn’t the luxury tax calculated using AAV, not yearly salary? So a backloaded Alex Gordon 5/100 deal still counts as 20 MM towards the luxury tax for 2016, no?

Snooty Babitt
10 years ago
Reply to  Dave Cameron

Especially this line muddles things:

“And if you get Gordon for $10 million in 2016, there’s plenty of room left to make a few more upgrades on the pitching side of things.”

If you are talking about the Tigers needing to hit a budget that is something unrelated to the cap, then this line is at odds with the Ilitch quote you used.

If you are talking about the Tigers needing to the hit the salary cap, then you wouldn’t use his 10 mm salary but rather his AAV.

Either way, your comment here helps us understand your intention, but it’s not clear from the article.

Snooty Babitt
10 years ago
Reply to  Snooty Babitt

Actually, this line clarifies that you are indeed using the 10mm salary against the cap, which is wrong:

“A Gordon/Chen/reliever trio might cost the team $30 million in 2016 additions, pushing them right up against the luxury tax…”

So basically the point about backloading the contract does not apply here.

McNulty
10 years ago
Reply to  Snooty Babitt

to be fair to Dave, “costing the team $30 million in 2016 additions” is true in terms of salary, and is distinct from “pushing them right up against the luxury tax” which may also be true, but Dave may be using an unstated figure higher than $30 million

Anthony
10 years ago
Reply to  Snooty Babitt

McNulty: earlier in the article, Dave states that the Tigers are roughly 30 MM away from the luxury tax line. It’s clearly stated. In fact:

“Given that the Tigers are roughly $30 million away from the luxury tax line, we’ll assume they’re probably going to be out on the top-tier of outfielders”

Dave from AZ
10 years ago
Reply to  Snooty Babitt

Actually the Tigers opening day payroll might be at 164 million in terms of AAV

Then you have to add in bonuses, benefits at the tune of 12.9 this year.

Which will leave us with 12 million AAV to hit $189

Anthony
10 years ago
Reply to  Dave Cameron

A Gordon/Chen/reliever trio would not cost 30 MM for luxury tax purposes, is my point. Gordon at 6/110 is 18.67 MM AAV. You’re getting Chen and a reliever for less than 12 MM AAV?

Anthony
10 years ago
Reply to  Anthony

Sorry, I’m an idiot at math today. 6/110 is 18.33, not 18.67 AAV.

Snooty Babitt
10 years ago
Reply to  Anthony

If Ilitch doesn’t care about the dough, he shouldn’t care about the taxes either. Sure avoid them if/when possible, but it shouldn’t be much of a barrier if contention in on the other side.

Anthony
10 years ago
Reply to  Anthony

I mean Illitch certainly could blow past the luxury tax line but that’s not what Dave is saying he’ll do here.

Snooty Babitt
10 years ago
Reply to  Anthony

Oh, yes, I agree with you. I just don’t get why the article would go to such lengths to avoid the luxury tax after starting with that quote.

Patrick OKennedy
10 years ago
Reply to  Dave Cameron

The Tigers have $ 17.8 million to spend on 13 players to reach $ 189 million in payroll for the 2016 season, including player benefits.

The difference between the AAV and the actual 25 man payroll for 2016 is negligible. (In 2015, the AAV was $ 5.6 million higher, but so far this year the AAV is actually lower). The difference will be whether or not they exercise buyouts on Maybin and/ or K Rod. Buyouts for 2017 options count against the 2016 payroll for tax purposes. Joe Nathan’s buyout, for example, counts against 2015 payroll.

10 players earning near the league minimum salary cost about $ 5.1 million. That leaves $ 12.7 million for three players. They want one starting pitcher and at least one reliever. You do the math from there.

Leaving out the cost of player benefits is a common error in calculating payroll for luxury tax purposes.

FWIW- the Tigers were actually over the tax threshold last year before they traded Price and Cespedes. They were on track for a $ 191 million payroll, give or take.

Mr I talks a big game, but then Mr A says they’re through with the outfield, and they’re shopping in a different aisle for the next starting pitcher, and they couldn’t afford $ 2.5 million for a backup catcher who would start about 50 games.

Bat
10 years ago
Reply to  Anthony

As a Mets fan, I have to say that I have so much respect for Ilitch – I can only dream of having an owner like that.

Not saying all of these were great moves, but look at the Cabrera, Verlander, Fielder, and Zimmerman contracts. Sometimes his GMs spend money poorly, but boy does Ilitch give them the ability to spend in a market which is not among the biggest.

And w/r/t Fielder: Ilitch authorized Dombrowski to pay Fielder $214 million over 9 years. And then after a disappointing playoffs from a production and attitude perspective (and baserunning perspective), Ilitch allowed Dombrowski to pay the Rangers $30 million…for Fielder not to play for them.

And that number paid to make Fielder go away – $30 million – would be considered a relatively large signing by a team like the Mets: Cuddyer, $21 million; Lagares, $23 million; Frank Francisco, $12 million.

Granderson at $60 million and Wright at $138 million are far and away the largest commitments by the Mets in the last five years and those contracts are dwarfed by the Cabrera and Verlander deals if you want to go head to head on each contract.

Ilitch is such a great owner. I hope Tigers fans really appreciate him because once he’s gone, the team could get transferred to someone who doesn’t spend anywhere close to what Ilitch spends (even if the team is bequeathed to his children – see Steinbrenner, Hal / Hank).

CircleChange11
10 years ago
Reply to  Bat

He’s old and says he’ll spend whatever in order to win a championship. Let’s see how much he spends before we get all “respectful” about it.

Larry Bernandez
10 years ago
Reply to  Bat

Fielder is not a wide receiver, a running back, or a tight end. Hell, he can barely play 1B

senor_mike
10 years ago
Reply to  Bat

I’m a Mets fan too, and oddly enough I see Ilitch allowing the Tigers to construct a roster on a philosophy that looks eerily similar to that of the 07>10 Mets. Top-heavy with enough talent to compete, but when the those top-heavy pieces start to breakdown so does the competitiveness.

So is that what you are hoping to see from the Mets again?

Ironic that one of the few things that may prevent this team from totally falling apart is the restocking work Dombrowski did at he deadline, which he was famously fired for.

Larry Bernandez
10 years ago

If the money doesn’t matter, then why not Jason Heyward?

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago

Money doesn’t not matter. It matters some amount. I think part of the idea is that the Tigers seem to be already headed for a crash at the end of the Verlander and Cabrera deals, so why waste money on a guy like Heyward who will still likely be good then. Might as well go all out and get a guy who ages at the same time since you’re already sinking some future years.

I think that is the logic. However, I would be very suspicious of how certain we might be that those future dead years are coming, how severe they will be, and exactly when they will be.

Jeff
10 years ago
Reply to  Bip

Because if Heyward is still good then, and he should be, he will be ripe for trading and bringing in needed young players.

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  Jeff

Perhaps, but he also may not have a lot of surplus value. He’ll be getting paid over $20 million a year and will likely be about a 2.5-3 WAR player at that point.

joser
10 years ago
Reply to  Jeff

And a win will cost what, by then? Over $10M, surely. Possibly more. Thus he may indeed have surplus value, even if it doesn’t look that way today.

Rauce
10 years ago

Couple of questions for you from Royals Nation:
First, who do you think you are?
Next, what gives you the right?
You monster. (<<< not a question)

Dave Cameron
10 years ago
Reply to  Rauce

pound sand

KCExile
10 years ago
Reply to  Rauce

Please leave that Royals Nation crap to Boston.

Stan Gable
10 years ago
Reply to  KCExile

The only ‘Nation’ should be the one associated with the Oakland Raiders as they’re the original as far as I know. The rest just seem increasingly lazy & unoriginal imo.

Paul Kasiński
10 years ago
Reply to  KCExile

RED SOX NATION OF ISLAM

Curacao LL
10 years ago
Reply to  Paul Kasiński

Malcolm X
Dice K

Same thing huh?

Ernie Camacho
10 years ago

How likely is it really that adding even 6 WAR makes the Tigers the favorite in the Central?

wily moMember since 2020
10 years ago
Reply to  Ernie Camacho

maybe not that likely, but since retrenching isn’t really an option given the owner’s priorities, they just have to do the best they can given their existing players and budget and hope they catch the lightning. which does happen

Ernie Camacho
10 years ago
Reply to  wily mo

Oh, for sure. But Dave’s conclusion seems a bit too rosy. The Tigers should go for it given their circumstances, but not because they have a particularly high probability of it actually turning out well.

Dooduh
10 years ago
Reply to  Ernie Camacho

It’s not at all, as long as you continue to underrate the Royals.

John C
10 years ago
Reply to  Dooduh

Maybe they’re going for the Fangraphs World Championship instead of the World Series. The Royals are total non-contenders in Steamer and PECOTA; they’re only good at playing real baseball.

I’ll probably get a hundred downvotes for that, but after three years, I think it’s time to conclude that the Royals break the systems used here.

Stan Gable
10 years ago
Reply to  John C

Wil Myers though! Wil Myers!

KDL
10 years ago
Reply to  John C

You won the World Series. Wtf are you whining about?

You’re the worst kind of fan.

KDL
10 years ago
Reply to  John C

Also. No, an outlier doesn’t “break the system”. An outlier is an outlier.

KCDaveInLA
10 years ago
Reply to  John C

Not really. The Royals beat the projections in areas not given a lot of weight: baserunning and defense.

CircleChange11
10 years ago
Reply to  John C

Also. No, an outlier doesn’t “break the system”. An outlier is an outlier.

I’m sorry you even had to say that.

Brett
10 years ago
Reply to  John C

I don’t get all the downvotes. It’s not like this is a particularly harsh or critical comment. He’s just making the point that maybe the projections are missing something that should account for the Royals success. Isn’t this exactly the type of question sabermetricians *should* be asking?

Why shouldn’t we consider that the Royals are doing something unaccounted for?

John C
10 years ago
Reply to  John C

Actually, KDL, I’m not a Royals fan. I’m a Red Sox fan. And I may be the worst kind of fan, but you know what they say about making assumptions?

And like Brett said, I question whether the projections used here accurately measure how good the KC team is. After they’ve outperformed projections by a goodly number of wins for three years in a row, and by an embarrassing amount in 2015, the burden of proof has shifted.

Paulie L.
10 years ago
Reply to  Dooduh

2015 Steamer projections “AL Division winners”
AL East – Red Sox 87-75
AL Cent – Tigers 86-76
AL West – Mariners 88-74
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-team-projections-and-you-american-league/

John C
10 years ago
Reply to  Paulie L.

I wish we’d been playing Steamer this year and not baseball.

smoother
10 years ago

Overrated player + overrated team = gold

Brian Mangan
10 years ago

> If Ilitch wasnts to show that he really doesn’t care about the money

He’s been showing that for a decade, he has nothing left to “prove”

> Take Gordon away from the Royals while adding two quality starters and a couple of bullpen upgrades, then hope for health from the older core players, and 85-95 wins is certainly within the range of reasonable expectations.

That’s a pretty broad range. If you honestly think 85 wins is a reasonable outcome AFTER adding Zimmermann, Gordon, Chen and a good reliever, you probably shouldn’t be going for it. I don’t know what the Tigers project to do now but as presented here it’s a pretty compelling case to not do any of this.

Dooduh
10 years ago
Reply to  Brian Mangan

With Miggy, VMart, Verlander, Sanchez and Kinsler, they are pot committed and so Zimmermann made sense as well as adding more talent in order to make another attempt at a playoff run. They did a good job cashing in some walk year assets for prospects last season but they pretty much have to forge ahead with this roster now.

KCExile
10 years ago
Reply to  Dooduh

I think the projection out of 3B is low. Lots of room to over perform from Castellanos

Dave
10 years ago
Reply to  KCExile

I agree. He’s what, 23, and has played two full years and showed improvement. I don’t get all the negativity towards him.

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  KCExile

Cause in three seasons he’s never been worth positive WAR lol. He doesn’t walk much, he strikes out a lot, and he doesn’t play good defense. What is there besides negativity?

Therealdavidglass
10 years ago
Reply to  KCExile

The Tigers are screwed with bad contracts, so now they are just going to sign more…Good news for the AL Central!

John C
10 years ago
Reply to  Brian Mangan

When you’re 86 years old, your odds of slipping into a second wild-card with 88 wins and then making your way to a championship are a lot higher than living long enough to do a full tear-down and rebuild, and still being alive when the Tigers have a chance to win again.

Ilitch has no choice anymore; he’s got to double down, and then double down again if need be.

Owen S
10 years ago

$160M is actually more like $20M away from the luxury tax threshold, not $30M. 10 points for whoever knows why. Actually Dave should know this one.

McNulty
10 years ago
Reply to  Owen S

luxury tax is $189 million, right?

Owen S
10 years ago
Reply to  McNulty

It is

TKDC
10 years ago
Reply to  Owen S

I put it at 90% that you’re trying to be clever but failing. You’d think that makes it 10% that you are actually clever, but in reality it is 15%. Do you know why?

Owen S
10 years ago

It’s not a trick question actually. The reason is one that people (including knowledgeable fangraphs authors) commonly overlook:
A team’s payroll, as it is calculated for luxury tax purposes, is calculated by adding together the AAV of its’ players AS WELL AS the costs of those players’ health benefits. That number typically falls in the $10M range.

Bpdelia
10 years ago
Reply to  Owen S

as well as any and all performance bonuses after the season and any and all injury replacements during hte season.

the benefits are usually around 10 million. THe tigers have a bunch of older stars on huge deals and those deals almost always have plenty of easily reachable performance bonuses in them. IF the goal is staying below the tax and getting better it”s nearly impossible.

Blue
10 years ago

Dave be trollin’!

Owen S
10 years ago

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies_zone/understanding-payroll-and-luxury-tax.html

“A baseball source said the annual expense for medical benefits typically runs between $10 and $11 million per season. We’ll split it down the middle for our purposes and say $10.5 million.”

Patrick OKennedy
10 years ago
Reply to  Owen S

The number used last year was $ 11,656,000
There is a cost of living adjustment each year, so it will be over $ 12 million next season. I used $ 12 million in the comment above to arrive at $ 17.8 million left to reach $ 189 million.

The Tigers do not have $ 30 million to spend to reach the tax threshold.

Alex87878
10 years ago

The overall premise of this article makes perfect sense to me, however there are plenty of details that do not align with what the actual Tiger’s payroll will look like in 2016.

As has already been stated, it does not matter whether a deal is front loaded or back loaded, as the luxury tax is based on AAV. Gordon will be costing around 18-20m AAV wise. Furthermore, if ownership is willing to spend, then they have no reason to back load the deal anyway. So there goes an $18m chunk from your projected $30m in space.

Next, the luxury tax is calculated from not just the actual contracts, but also from various player expenses. This number changes from team to team and year to year, but in general, a team can expect to spend around $10 million in player benedifit costs. This cost does count towards the luxury tax, so that leaves you with a just $2m to fill out the rotation, bullpen, etc.

I think Gordon makes a great addition for the Tigers, but I also believe that then puts them in the stars and scrubs position that you said they need to avoid when filling out the rest of their roster. They may be better off looking at a Denard Span type, who can play anywhere in the OF and will cost more around 3 years, 39m (according to predictions by MLB Trade Rumors). They can then utilize their remaining cap to go after a RP and to find another starter. However, without either cutting some cap somewhere, or blowing past their typical opening day luxury tax totals, I do not envision the Tigers filling all of their holes well enough to be serious world series contenders.

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  Alex87878

I’m not sure why everyone’s so caught up on the luxury tax. I don’t think they are dead set on avoiding it. They would backload the deal because the 2016 team is not that strong and they want to spend more this year to improve.

Jim Campbell
10 years ago
Reply to  Alex87878

Span plus Chen plus O’Day will go a lot faster towards a WS than Gordon/Fister/whatever

Owen S
10 years ago

Alex, you get 5 points. TKDC, your snark nets you -5.

Eminor3rd
10 years ago

I feel like if money was actually no object, they wouldn’t have just signed the fourth-best pitcher on the market while Greinke, Price, and Cueto are still available.

John C
10 years ago
Reply to  Eminor3rd

Could be that they just didn’t want to play for the Tigers. No offense, but not everyone wants to come to Detroit. Add in the fact that the Tigers were a bad team last year…

DetroitTigersFanAllDay
10 years ago
Reply to  John C

But Zimmermann just signed to go play in Detroit. Soooo

Price went to the highest bidder. Greinke will also follow suit like he did in his last contract.

bob the builder
10 years ago
Reply to  Eminor3rd

I mean, clearly there is an upper limit, and GM Avila said if they grab another SP, they would be on the cheaper end of things, but it’s pretty clear the FA spending isn’t all done in Detroit.

DetroitTigersFanAllDay
10 years ago
Reply to  Eminor3rd

Listen to yourself and what you just said
“if money was actually no object”
“they signed the fourth-best pitcher on the market”

Brian
10 years ago

Why will the 2018-2020 Tigers be ugly? Only Cabrera, Verlander, and Zimmermann are signed for 2019, and only Cabrera and Zimmermann are signed for 2020. Maybe those players will be overpaid, but I don’t think it’s a big leap to think Verlander and Zimmermann will be average starting pitchers while Cabrera will be a good DH.

Bpdelia
10 years ago
Reply to  Brian

I think its a leap to think Verlander will be average. Because aside from the very very rare deal (Mike Mussinas for instance) star pitchers almost always finish these deals insanely ugly. Or hurt. Usually both actually.

Brandon
10 years ago
Reply to  Bpdelia

True, although as I recall, one of Verlander’s closest comps is Mussina. Not to mention the fact that Verlander is an absolute freak specimen of a pitcher. He won’t be anywhere near what he’s paid a few years down the road, but I don’t think it’s too wild to think he’ll still be a league average pitcher when he’s 36 years old. It’s just a question of whether Avila can do a good job rebuilding the farm. Dombrowski did a nice job restocking it at the deadline, but it’s still average at best.

dom
10 years ago

I don’t understand all the hand wringing about luxury tax in the short term if we are taking Ilitch’s word that he doesn’t care about the money. If all he cares about is winning a championship he should willing to put the team above that threshold (not to mention it will be going up with the new CBA). The real issue with going hog wild with spending is screwing the franchise over 5-10 years down the line and having that be part of his legacy. That’s why the backloading part doesn’t seem to make sense as he should be willing to take a bottom line hit in the short term to increase odds of WS.

I’ve always argued that owners who really want to win should be willing to go as far as running a yearly deficit, given that they make it all back and then some in capital gains as these franchises gain 100s of millions of dollars in valuations every few years. Especially when they win.

Theram
10 years ago

Well, very nifty figuring out the payroll tax ramifications and all – but who the hell wants to pay Gordon that kind of money. Good glove, but not all that much offensively and he’s in his 30’s?

Bpdelia
10 years ago
Reply to  Theram

I mean if money doesn’t matter why wouldn’t you just go a bit higher and get the 26year old alex gordon who is also availiable and still has considerable offensive upside?

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  Theram

but not all that much offensively

What?

He is 45th in wRC+ out of 335 guys who show up on the list from 2011-2015. Sorting instead by accumulated runs created on offense, he is 24th, ahead of some fun not-much-offense players like Adrian Gonzalez.

Dayton Moore
10 years ago

“Detroit: the place where payroll doesn’t exist.” – Dave Cameron

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago

It is sort of astounding to me how casually a dude’s pending mortality gets thrown in as an economic pressure in an equation when we talk about the Tigers. I’m not even trying to be reproachful here, it honestly just trips me out a little.

John C
10 years ago
Reply to  Bip

Ilitch has brought it up himself, many times. He wants to win a World Series with the Tigers before he dies. I’m not uncomfortable with the subject if the man himself isn’t.

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago

A relatively small consideration is also the draft compensation. Since their 1st-rounder is protected, they only lost a 2nd-rounder on Zimmermann, and would then only lose a 3rd-rounder on Gordon, essentially nothing. Some might say this doesn’t matter anyway since they are punting, but draft picks have very unpredictable timelines, so I wouldn’t ever rule out a pick they make in 2016 from being part of the next young Tigers core.

Therealdavidglass
10 years ago

Tigers fans are very dumb!

DetroitTigersFanAllDay
10 years ago

Youre just mad that KC still cant play against Detroit well. lol

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago

Literally no one is mad about that

JDawg0718
10 years ago

I think the Tigers should sign Wei-Yin Chen and Gerardo Parra. Wei-Yin would be absolutely insane in a park like Detroit’s especially coming from Camden Yards and he won’t be as expensive as a guy like Cueto but I find him equally effective. And Gerardo Parra had a disappointing second half lowering his value and he’s a guy who could hit .280 to .300 easily in front of guys like Miggy and V Mart and he’s only 28 so he’s in the prime of his career. This way they don’t have to break the bank to improve two holes they have and they can focus on other weaknesses.

Talloptician
10 years ago
Reply to  JDawg0718

This. Absolutely this.

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  JDawg0718

he’s a guy who could hit .280 to .300 easily in front of guys like Miggy and V Mart

That type of lineup protection isn’t real. If pitchers pitched a guy differently because they are scared of who is hitting after him, and as a result the hits more effectively, then they would stop doing that right quick. Lineup protection actually is when a guy hits behind a good on-base guy, and as a result the pitcher pitches differently because there’s a runner on base, or it causes the defense to play differently. For example, if you’re a lefty pull-hitter, you really want a guy on base in front of you so that the 1B holds the runner and opens up a hole.

davisncMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  Bip

Not to speak for JDawg, but I don’t read that as a “protection” comment. I read it as a comment about a guy who hit .291 this year, with a .277 career average, who may get on base at a similar clip so that Cabrera and Martinez can drive him in. Now, of course, I wouldn’t cite batting average in a case like this, and perhaps “easily” is overselling it a bit for a guy with an aforementioned career .277 average, but I don’t see “in front of Cabrera and Martinez” as being linked causally to the batting average.

davisncMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  davisnc

Of course, the “guys like” part does make it seem more like there’s a relationship there. Hard to say. Anyway.

Jeremy
10 years ago

I just threw up in my mouth a little reading this. Gross

stimetb
10 years ago

if they can figure out a way to trade Victor, do it. Maybe Dumborowski would bite for a couple minor leaguers. Then go after Gordon.

Dayton Moore
10 years ago
Reply to  stimetb

Nobody would take Victor Martinez, even for free

CircleChange11
10 years ago

“I don’t care about the money,” (Mike Ilitch) said. “I want the best players.”

Said the guy that didn’t re-sign Scherzer … and signed Zimmerman, not Price.

It’s not what you say …. it’s what you do.

Or the one I like better “I see better than I hear”.

BobbyBaseball
10 years ago

I don’t think the Royals success (or the Giants, for that matter) “break the system”…it just shows that anything can happen given a limited sample size. And yes, a 5-7 game series (and, in fact, the entire postseason) qualifies as a limited sample compared with the 162 game season.