The Windians Aren’t Going Away

There’s sufficient cause for optimism in Cleveland. (Photo: Keith Allison)

After the Cubs ended their curse and title drought last fall, there was talk about a potential dynasty having arrived. There’s been less talk of that this season after the Cubs stumbled for much of the first half. While Chicago has one of the oldest pitching staffs (average age of 30.9 years) in the game, they’ve played at a higher level in the second half.

Elsewhere, a prominent magazine recently devoted its cover to the Dodgers, wondering if this year’s version of the club might be the “Best. Team. Ever?” And it’s a team, despite its recent skid, that remains six games ahead of its closest NL competitor, a team with a number of young, cornerstone stars.

Finally, it wouldn’t be surprising to observe the Yankees transform into a hegemonic power in the AL East. Their impressive young core has begun to arrive — and arrive ahead of schedule. And just about everyone expects them to be big players, and winners, in the historic 2018-19 free-agency class.

We’re in an age when the big-market clubs have begun to operate more efficiently, using strategies adopted by smaller-market teams just looking to compete. In each of the last two years, Craig Edwards has found an increasingly strong relationship between payroll and wins, one that could very well be exacerbated by the 2018-19 free-agency class, as well as the prospect of better training and nutrition (thereby leading to more productive, more expensive free-agent seasons).

So when we think about the next possible dynasties in the game, it’s necessary to think of the Cubs, the Dodgers, and the Yankees and as logical candidates. Big-payroll, big-market teams.

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But perhaps there’s another potential dynasty — or at least potential for sustained excellence — ready to emerge elsewhere. Not in a big market, but in Cleveland.

There’s been a lot of Indians-related content published at FanGraphs recently and rightly so, as only the 1935 Cubs and 2017 Indians have won 21 straight games. The Indians will try to make it 22 on Thursday evening for the outright record. (Sorry, 1916 Giants.)

Cleveland nearly won a World Series title last October, of course, with a starting rotation depleted by injury, down their second and third arms. They’ve emerged as the favorite to return there this season with what is perhaps the best rotation of all time, as Jeff noted last week. They lead baseball in run differential. The Indians have few weaknesses.

It’s not just the present, however, but also the future that should have the Cleveland fanbase excited.

Staff ace and perhaps the new AL Cy Young favorite Corey Kluber is under contract through 2021. Over the next four years, assuming the two club options are exercised, Kluber will make $51.4 million. He’s a good bet to produce nine-digit surplus value over the life of the deal.

Indians No. 2 starter Carlos Carrasco is under contract through 2020. Over the next three years, including two club options, he’s owed $27.5 million.

Trevor Bauer has reached another level of performance, pitching like another top-of-rotation arm since June. He will be arbitration eligible for the first time this winter. Another Indians starting pitcher shoving like an ace recently, Mike Clevinger, isn’t eligible for arbitration until 2020.

All four were acquired via trade.

Danny Salazar had made a performance leap before hitting the DL for a second time last month. He’s not eligible for free agency until 2021. He’s another high-upside arm.

No rotation has ever been better for a single season, and it’s a group entirely under club control through 2020.

In the pipeline is Triston McKenzie, a lanky right-hander who emerged as one of the best pitching prospects in the game this summer as he led the minor leagues in strikeouts.

The Indians not only have an elite rotation in place, but — barring a series of injuries — also an enviable position-player group.

Before the season, Jose Ramirez signed a four-year, $26 million extension that will keep him with the club through 2023 if both club options are exercised. Given that Ramirez would be an MVP favorite in a world without Mike Trout and Jose Altuve, it’s a steal of a contract for the club.

While the club would like to lock up Francisco Lindor to an extension, he reportedly turned down a $100 million extension last offseason. Still, he’s not eligible to hit the open market until 2022 at the earliest.

While Bradley Zimmer had an uneven offensive performance as rookie, his defense and baserunning give him a floor as an up-the-middle regular in center field. A broken hand will likely keep him out of the rest of the season. Catchers Yan Gomes and Roberto Perez are signed to multi-year deals, with the bat of top position prospect Francisco Mejia ready for ML action.

What it all means is the Indians have a young, up-the-middle core under control through the early 2020s.

The window for the Windians is open now and appears like it’s going to be open for a while, particularly in a division where the Tigers and White Sox are committed to rebuilding, the Royals’ core will likely be broken up this winter, and the surprising Twins’ run differential of plus-eight is not suggestive of dominant force.

Lindor (No. 5), Kluber (No. 10), and Ramirez (No. 15) ranked in the top 20 of Dave’s trade value series this summer. Carrasco ranked 28th. There resides a lot, a lot, of surplus value.

While there are perhaps some large-market super teams under construction, or already having been built, the Indians represent a potential small-market power. Dynasties are difficult to build. Winning multiple titles in a short period of time is unlikely. But the Indians are built to have multiple trips to the postseason table.





A Cleveland native, FanGraphs writer Travis Sawchik is the author of the New York Times bestselling book, Big Data Baseball. He also contributes to The Athletic Cleveland, and has written for the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, among other outlets. Follow him on Twitter @Travis_Sawchik.

36 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
MLBDaddy
8 years ago

Can you please just call them Cleveland or Cleveland baseball team. I hate when media members use that racist team name of theirs

ImpliedVol
8 years ago
Reply to  MLBDaddy

Thanks for the comedy material. I’ll be sure to tell everyone from my tribe (Lumbee) that “Indian” is now a racist term. That’ll surely get lots of laughs.

MLBDaddy
8 years ago
Reply to  ImpliedVol

Plenty of native americans think the name is racist. Stop using Dan Snyder logic

Baron Samedi
8 years ago
Reply to  ImpliedVol

As someone who is 1/512th Ojibwe, you don’t speak for us.

killerbees
8 years ago
Reply to  ImpliedVol

Whether it’s offensive or not, the term is absolutely inaccurate at the very least. You can debate semantics or the merits of bringing it up on fangraphs all you want.

Honestly, your response reminds me of the people that say “I don’t think the n word is racist because I have a black friend and we say it to him all the time.” Getting out of ahead of whoever responds to this, no I’m not equating the two words, I’m equating the logic.

And I’d argue pretty hard that Chief Wahoo is at its core a gross misrepresentation of a group of people that were largely murdered and disenfranchised since before the founding of the USA.

Anyway, the Indians are pretty damn good huh?

v2miccaMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  killerbees

In the case of the Indians and Braves, I always thought it was less racist and more cultural appropriation (though you may consider that racist as well)

FrancoeursteinMember since 2025
8 years ago
Reply to  ImpliedVol

Not gonna weigh on the political side of things, but I’m a Lumbee as well… Pretty cool!

Jetsy Extrano
8 years ago
Reply to  MLBDaddy

What, “R*dsk*ns”?

MLBDaddy
8 years ago
Reply to  Jetsy Extrano

Washington Football Team

dave
8 years ago
Reply to  Jetsy Extrano

Change the image on the helmets to a potato and all of a sudden it’s no longer racist! The “Redskin” potatoes. They can keep their name and everyone is happy!

Baron Samedi
8 years ago
Reply to  MLBDaddy

It’s generally agreed upon that the only acceptable name for the AL Baseball Team with the Racist Mascot is “The Clevelands” (and, in the NL, “The Barves”).

As for that American football team in D.C., I have it on Excellent Authority they’ll soon be known as “The Washington Gun-Takers” — get your gear now!! https://www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/1631289-washington-gun-takers

Baron Samedi
8 years ago
Reply to  Baron Samedi

I wonder what it’s like to be a pearl-clutching racist.

Weaponized downvotes inc.

Baron Samedi
8 years ago
Reply to  Baron Samedi

It’s going to be funny when The Clevelands have to call themselves The Clevelands when playing in The Civilized North.

Baron Samedi
8 years ago
Reply to  Baron Samedi

Revisiting these comments really makes me hope for a bunch of plane crashes.

Baron Samedi
8 years ago
Reply to  Baron Samedi

or ~32 vasectomies

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  MLBDaddy

This didn’t deserve so many downvotes.

The name “Indians” might not be offensive in a vacuum, but we don’t live in a vacuum. We live in a world where the team “Indians” is associated with Chief Wahoo. Realistically, as long as people remember Chief Wahoo, the name “Indians” is going to be very offensive.

Just because the Washington football club has a worse name that this issue isn’t a big deal. Chief Wahoo is one of the worst mascots ever, and we’d do well to acknowledge that the team’s name demeans and insults people.

frivoflava29
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

It’s getting downvoted mostly because this is a terrible place to bring up this discussion, whichever side you’re on.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  frivoflava29

Sorry to hear many of you don’t want to talk about it. It’s going to be everywhere, whether you like it or not. Get ready.

Baron Samedi
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Every conversation about The Team with the Racist Mascot should be forced in this direction until they change.

Baron Samedi
8 years ago
Reply to  frivoflava29

It’s pretty funny (read: sad) how these downvotes are coming from people who would likely tell critics of The Team with the Racist Mascot to be less sensitive.

KEKEKE

Jetsy Extrano
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I’d suggest amplifying the distinction between the word being demeaning, and this team’s use of it as their name being demeaning.

The word’s not a slur, and it’s too easy to get discussion sidetracked onto that. But the team taking it as their name is a separate question whatever a person thinks of the answer. And the mascot, well, the team’s choice there informs what you’d think about their use of that name.

Aaron (UK)
8 years ago

New information on that Giants streak – the “tie game” was not really a tie at all – it was replayed the next day. It is official for players’ stats but it was not part of the teams’ W-L record that season.

https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2017/9/14/16307318/indians-winning-streak-ny-giants-record-21-games-or-26

Bret
8 years ago
Reply to  Aaron (UK)

So, they have a 25 game win streak. Seems simple enough to me. Not their fault a game was cancelled.

TJMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  Bret

No, 26 wins. 27 games were started. 26 were finished. Those 26 were all won by the Giants.

Jon L.Member since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  Aaron (UK)

Yes, I don’t like the Fangraphs writers’ groupthink that the Giants’ win streak doesn’t count, and the Indians don’t need an artificial boost to look very impressive.

TJMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  Aaron (UK)

There is no tying in baseball.

emh1969
8 years ago

Big question moving forward will be the bullpen. Shaw and Smith are free agents at the end of the year. Allen and Miller the year after that.

They can still win the division with a weakened bullpen but it will be much harder to make a deep playoff run.

Choos on first
8 years ago
Reply to  emh1969

I have a feeling that if Salazar keeps getting hurt, Clevinger continues to pitch well next year, and McKenzie continues to dominate, Salazar will find himself pitching as a high leverage reliever and see multiple innings of relief when necessary.

EonADSMember since 2024
8 years ago
Reply to  emh1969

Smith has also stated he’d like to sign with the club again, so he might not be gone for long.

szakylMember since 2024
8 years ago
Reply to  emh1969

Probably slotting right behind the 4 aforementioned pitchers is Nick Goody who is quietly having a solid rookie season (.7 WAR, 3.27 FIP). Granted he hasn’t had the high LI because of the names in front of him, but he is at least 1 quality relief arm that the Indians have control over.

Brock244
8 years ago

Redsox? Astros? Both teams look to suited very well. Probably ahead of the Indians given the redsox massive spending advantage (and comparable if not better crop of young talent) and the Astros superior young talent

TheUncool
8 years ago
Reply to  Brock244

The Red Sox can spend, but they haven’t really shown that such spending in FA nets them enough real gains though… at least in recent years anyway. IF they actually land Harper come 2019, ok, but the Yankees, et al will also be there bidding against them. Meanwhile, their young core just isn’t as proven as Cleveland’s even though they’re definitely promising.

The Astros have the better position-player young core, but not the better pitching though. Cleveland’s pitching is just that much better to tip the scales me thinks… although the addition of Verlander along w/ emergence of Peacock and Morton might even things (even if McCullers continue to have his struggles)…

Brock244
8 years ago
Reply to  TheUncool

Comparing young cores, Betts, Devers, Benintendi, Bogaerts, Bradley, Erod I think is probably on par or even a bit more promising than Lindor, Ramirez, Zimmer, Clevinger Salazar although I supppse you could argue for both.

The Indians may have a little more farm depth and don’t have the overpaid contracts, but I think the redsox ability to drop 200+mil annually is more of an advantage. While they haven’t spent their money efficiently, you have to remember the majority of that spending was under a different gm than now.

Looking at the Astros, while they don’t have the pitching, I think they just have an extremely prosming overall pool of talent. Both in the majors and minors. Feels like while the redsox/Indians are more suited to win over the next 5ish years, the astros have the ability to stretch their
window longer

Obviously the Indians are built extremely well, just thought the redsox and astros were worth bringing up given the article is taking about potential sustained success and they are potentially built for that too!

fjtorres
8 years ago

Every team has questions to answer.
The Windians have two sets, right mow.
Short term, the questions are:
1- How far can they stretch the streak
2- What happens after they lose one
3- How far can they go in the post-season.

Longer term is where thing get really complicated:
4- What do they do with Michael “Mr Glass” Brantley?
5- What do they do about Santana, Jackson, Chisenhall, Bruce, Shaw, Smith?
A long postseason run would bring in needed cash but keeping the gang together might be beyond their means. And then…
6- What to do with Diaz, Gonzalez, Urshela, Mejia, Allen, Merrit, even Naquin. There’s only so many roster spots.
7- What to do with Kipnis, Salazar, and Tomlin.
8- What about Lindor’s contracts? If he doesn’t sign long term his arbitration years are going to get…uncertain…

The team has built its winning ways around balance and abundant talent but maintaining the balance is going to be tricky and paying the talent is going to get pricey.

Building dynasties is tough even for large payroll teams.
Doubly so if the money isn’t there…

Let’s enjoy the Windians while we can because it is doubtful they’ll keep the band together much longer.

tribefaninnc
8 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

Yes there are definitely a lot of questions going forward. Basically anyone that wants to stay is going to have to take less money to do it. I’m most curious about the Santana situation; wonder what they will do with him.

NastyNate82
8 years ago

Very well built, and some impact talent in the pipeline. Impressive team and I’m rooting for them. They won’t go away, like Pittsburgh did. Right Travis?