The Year in Successful Non-Prospects

Everyone in the majors has, at some point, been considered a star. Certainly not in the major leagues, of course, but the majors select the best of the best of the best of the best. The majors pull the best players from Triple-A. Triple-A pulls the best players from the lower minors. The lower minors pull the best players from high school and college and various other countries. And even from there, those levels tend to pull the best players from the youth circuits. Players in the majors are elites at their sport, and as the saying goes, everyone used to be the best player on one of their teams.

Still, players do get separated and classified. As players move up the ladder, some are seen as better than others. Those perceived to have the most talent end up as highly-ranked prospects. Everyone else, not so much. Many of the eventual top players were seen coming. Alex Rodriguez was a highly-ranked prospect. Mike Trout was a highly-ranked prospect. Corey Seager was a highly-ranked prospect.

Something I like to revisit from time to time is the collective big-league performance from the guys who weren’t highly-ranked prospects. Obviously, there will be the occasional surprise. How many surprises are there? Let me give you a decade of data. There are more surprises than you might realize.

The first time I ever wrote about this was early in 2015. I’m not changing the method. I’m making use of the Baseball America all-time top-100 prospect lists, and as you can see here, that information stretches back to 1990. In large part for that reason, I’m basing everything on the BA rankings, but in addition to that, BA has long been the gold standard, anyway. So I feel pretty comfortable.

You’d be right to point out that a top-100 prospect list can include only up to 100 prospects. In any given year, there are more than 100 talented young players spread throughout the 30 organizations. So there’s a difference between being a non-prospect and just not being a great prospect. I used the word “non-prospect” in the headline just because it fits well, but it doesn’t convey quite the right message. This isn’t exactly an analysis of non-prospects — it’s an analysis of unranked prospects, as far as the top-100s are concerned. This is an important point to understand, although you still wouldn’t expect an unranked prospect to turn into a quality regular.

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Enough with all that. In the linked post from 2015, I set a cutoff at 3 WAR. I wanted to know how many good players had been good prospects, or unranked prospects, and 3 WAR was the line I used to define a good player. I’m going to use that again. So, once more, how many good players have been unranked prospects? Here’s the year-to-year information, covering the last decade. The thin gray line is the sample average.

This year, we’re at 30%. That is, 30% of the players worth at least 3 WAR never showed up on a top-100 list. That’s down from last year’s 35%, which was down from the previous year’s 39%. Based on that, you might want to identify a trend. But the overall average here is 31%, and I personally don’t see much of a hint of anything. The numbers bounce around. It tends to be about three out of 10.

Taking an even broader view, here’s the percent of total league WAR generated by unranked prospects.

Ranked prospects continue to be responsible for generating the majority of all value. But maybe, just maybe, the gap is narrowing. This season, 41% of league WAR has come from players who never showed up on a top-100 list. The overall average is 39%. No trend can be conclusively identified, but we’re talking about two wins out of every five. It’s a real and substantial contribution.

So, who are this season’s top previously unranked prospects? Here’s the top 10, just in descending order of WAR. Guys that just miss out include Daniel Murphy, Brian Dozier, and Lorenzo Cain.

Top Unranked Players
SOURCE: Baseball America

Just to make the point absolutely clear, once again, none of these guys ever showed up in a BA preseason top-100. I didn’t bother to try to look at midseason prospect-list updates. That doesn’t mean that nobody liked these guys when they were in the minors. They might’ve been prospects; they just weren’t thought of as being particularly special prospects. This year, they’re all having special seasons. To go a step further, Altuve, Kluber, Goldschmidt, Turner, and Pham all also failed to rank in a BA preseason organizational top-10. They were never top-10 prospects just within their own systems. The five other players were all considered top-10 organizational prospects at some point, but then, among them, Suarez drew the highest ranking, once being the No. 8 prospect for the Tigers. Even that isn’t so encouraging. That’s the kind of prospect you don’t mind giving away for a trade-deadline rental.

Some of these players are familiar. Altuve’s been great for years. Kluber, too. They help to prop up the unranked-prospect WAR every year, in the way that Josh Donaldson and Jose Bautista used to. But then you have, say, the Taylor breakout, or the Pham emergence. And while Ramirez was excellent in 2016 as well, now I think it’s safe to truly buy into him as an All-Star-caliber asset. One could’ve reasonably been skeptical of the Ramirez breakout, but now he’s surged beyond 5 WAR, giving him a total of 10 since the start of last year. Jose Ramirez is one of the best players in baseball. I don’t have to be able to explain it. It’s just a new truth.

Obviously, the bulk of the best talent comes from the guys who were seen as the best prospects. Prospect evaluators know what they’re doing. Yet there’s still plenty of room for unranked prospects to burst through and establish themselves. Ranked prospects might get more opportunities, more of the benefit of the doubt, but, eventually, results are everything. Kluber wasn’t a prospect. He might win the AL Cy Young. Altuve and Ramirez weren’t prospects. One of them might win the AL MVP. Goldschmidt wasn’t a prospect. He might win the NL MVP. Blackmon could be a candidate, too! Which isn’t to suggest that this is a particularly strong year, in terms of the performance of unranked prospects. Rather, it seems like a normal year, and that’s the whole point.





Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.

37 Comments
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Joe Joe
8 years ago

Coffee hasn’t kicked in yet, but it seems Jeff’s article from yesterday should have been mentioned here. As smaller guys hit fly balls harder, it seems like the WAR gap between hitters in the Top 100 prospects and unranked hitters should decrease. Also, I suspect as it becomes harder to make contact in majors; it will become harder for scouts to evaluate which minor league hitters with contact issues will make enough contact in the majors.

redsoxu571
8 years ago
Reply to  Joe Joe

That is good food for thought. Nice!

aweb
8 years ago

Since relievers won’t usually make a top prospects list and a lot of teams pull successful guys from the minors who are only ever relievers now, I’d guess as WAR accumulated by the bullpens increase, prospect WAR will drop a little too.

mike sixelMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  aweb

Question…..how does aggregate WAR work? Is there a WAR number for all of baseball that is divided up?

Because if more aggregate WAR comes from RPs, but most RPs are fungible on an individual basis and and they take up more of the aggregate, does that mean that the other individual players that are really good are even more valuable, since they take up bigger pieces of a smaller pie?

And yes, I really wanted that sentence to be even longer…

Ryan DCMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  mike sixel
Mike Green
8 years ago

The bag of “non-prospects” is quite diverse. Turner developed very late after a position change, much like Donaldson, and unlike Donaldson wasn’t a high draft pick at all (29th round). Jose Altuve developed at age 21 and was promoted directly to the major leagues after 153 PAs at double A. If he had been left longer in double A (as most teams would have done), he would have been a “prospect” after that year.

LHPSU
8 years ago
Reply to  Mike Green

It’s really “non top-prospects”, or “Cistullian Prospects” to use the technical term.

mattybobo
8 years ago
Reply to  LHPSU

Cistullian was one of those late Roman Emperors whose portraits are weird looking because classical sculpture had declined in quality by the time he ruled.

dbminnMember since 2016
8 years ago

Seems like a lot of 2B/3B types (7 of 13 mentioned). Maybe they were not considered athletic enough to play SS in MLB so they dropped down their respective prospect lists.

Vlad's Dad
8 years ago

While 39% of league WAR seems impressive, it’s a lot less impressive if say 75% of players were non-prospects. It would be nice to have the complete non-prospect vs. prospect breakdown for context.

MikeSMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  Vlad's Dad

If each team has 5 minor league teams (AAA, AA, A+, A, R) and each team has 25 players then there are over 3000 minor league players and only a 120 or so on the three top 100 lists (BA, BP, MLB). So less than 5% of the players are still providing 60% of the WAR.

This is an oversimplification since players who WERE on those lists at some point will be over represented on MLB rosters.

CliffH
8 years ago
Reply to  MikeS

Many more than 100 of those 3,000 will spend time an a top 100 list at some point. Although, I know the Yankees have something like 8 minor league affiliates- at R level 2 GCL teams, SI, and Appy league

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago

What do most of these guys have in common? Uncommonly good hit tools! Hit tools aren’t sexy, but at the population level it’s so important to success it’s not surprising that they would be represented well in any cross-section of top WAR producers.

(I completely understand Tommy Pham not being a top-100 prospect though)

(We should apologize to him by giving him the MVP)

(Mostly, but not entirely joking about the MVP)

Pirates HurdlesMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

And Zimmerman showed that prospect evaluation of hit tool is the hardest thing to get right. Prospect hit tool values were not predictive of MLB success at all.

Shalesh
8 years ago

I missed Zimmerman’s article on hit tool evaluation. Why is it difficult to scout? It seems like one only need look at K% and xWOBA (or even plain old BA) for hitters in the minors. You’re saying K% and xWOBA in the minors don’t translate to the Majors at all?

Pirates HurdlesMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  Shalesh

No I’m saying that hit tool grades applied by scouts dont translate.

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/minors-to-the-majors-hit-tool-grade-usefulness/

Pirates HurdlesMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  Shalesh

For work on which stats correlate best look at Chris Mitchell’s work starting here.

http://www.fangraphs.com/tht/katoh-forecasting-a-hitters-major-league-performance-with-minor-league-stats/

MooserMember since 2020
8 years ago

Interesting. I am pretty sure BPro had Altuve ranked within the own system. I recall Kevin Goldstein being very high on him, and I think he may now run their minor league scouting division.

MooserMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  Mooser

Going back , Goldstein ranked Altuve Number 11 on the Astros in 2011 preseason, but admitted that he was getting a significant level of backlash from the industry for doing so.

cnote66Member since 2017
8 years ago

I thought Chris Taylor might have made a top 100 list when he was in SEA. Guess not. Good stuff!

Rational FanMember since 2020
8 years ago

Goldy is an interesting one because I remember there being quite a bit of hype surrounding his call up; he had an incredible year at AA and his power was hyped mightily. I imagine he might have made a midseason update that year, but his lack of prospect ranking was probably more-so tied to his round drafted (8th) and his very short stay in the minors (really only one full year before his AA season, and that was at A ball where he wasn’t going to move up – rankings wise – much.

Urban Shocker
8 years ago
Reply to  Rational Fan

Goldschmidt was a #11 pre-season as well, and certainly not unknown. Had he been kept in AA he would have cracked top 100 lists everywhere.

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  Rational Fan

If you want to read a scouting report that missed the mark, see the 2011 report on Goldy in BP. It is very difficult to surmount the 8th round negative bias and the comments about his fielding and base running skills which are easy to see and do not get worse as the pitching gets better are laughable. Hoskins career is almost a carbon copy of that, rake at every level but never get credit until even the blind can’t miss it.

CromulentMember since 2017
8 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

Keith Law was one of those who didn’t think Goldschmidt’s tools would translate at the highest level but has said that the one piece of information he didn’t have was Goldy’s insane work ethic.

bookbookMember since 2019
8 years ago

I always thought of Kyle Seager and his 26 WAR (and counting) as kind of unique from a non top prospect. Guess not.

EltnegMember since 2020
8 years ago

There’s probably another handful of 3+ WAR guys out there unaccounted for by not looking at partial seasons, too. For example, DeJong has 2.4 WAR in 90 games and Hoskins has 2.3 in 33.

YKnotDisco
8 years ago

I do wonder how much some of these guys would regress if the league went back to a less lively ball? (Blackmon, Ramirez, Pham (vision has played a big role in his breakout, though) Taylor, and Suarez)

Blackmon had an wRC+ of 98 and an HR/FB% of 9.9 in 1509 PA before the 2015 ASG. Compare that to the 129 and 15.7 after.

As for the rest, they didn’t really have a lot of opportunities prior to the 2015 ASG. I’m sure age, position and injury could be explanations of why they played sparingly. Maybe they didn’t have the opportunities because of their lack of production though; only really producing after the livelier ball was introduced. It’s tough to really say one way or another.

Ramirez had the most PA of the bunch (453). His wRC+ went from 64 to 128. His HR/FB% went from 2.9 to 9.9. Some natural growth is to be expected, for sure. Just how much, though?

It’s hard to take these new levels of production at complete face value. When young guys are getting called up and showcasing more power against big league pitching – more than they ever had shown before against less talented minor league pitchers – you wonder how much of their offensive value is tied up in the ball itself. What if the league were to change the baseball again? How much of an drop-off would we see?

YKnotDisco
8 years ago
Reply to  YKnotDisco

Someone please help me out here — How is my comment any different from the material discussed in the article from yesterday and the two articles that Jeff has posted today?

I stated facts. I hypothesized possible explanations for underperformance and possible explanations for their breakout performances. I asked relevant questions. I never came to any stedfast conclusion.

I would greatly appreciate for someone who disagrees with me, to chime in. Where did I go wrong? I’m openminded and willing to change my line of thinking; if i’m presented with ample evidence to the contrary of what I’ve said. My comment is not too far separated from what Legeisc and CM52 had shared.

Thanks in advance.

AJ pro-Preller
8 years ago
Reply to  YKnotDisco

it is truly funny that you actually care

John Autin
8 years ago
Reply to  YKnotDisco

Are you asking about downvotes? If they had anything worth listening to, wouldn’t they have said it the first time, instead of just pushing a button? Let it go.

YKnotDisco
8 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

You’re right, John. I shouldn’t have became so defensive. I didn’t understand all the disagreement without any context as to why?

CM52
8 years ago

The juiced ball is huge. Many of these players were given a ranking based on the importance of the power grade in the era in which they played, and that importance has since been diminished.

Additionally, due to the usage of relievers mentioned, it would be interesting to see position player only and SP only breakdowns over the years.

thetoddfather
8 years ago
Reply to  CM52

As Alan Nathan showed, one of the contributing factors to the juiced ball is reduced seam height.

So, technically, the juiced ball isn’t “huge”…it’s actually become smaller.

jkuhlen
8 years ago

It seems counter-intuitive that Jose Ramirez was not a “prospect” but got his first cup of coffee in the majors at age 20. Besides Altuve, it looks like the other guys on this list made their debuts much later.

AJ pro-Preller
8 years ago

“Prospect evaluators know what they’re doing.”
Yeah kinda like that Covey kid from the White Sox being drafted before Chris Sale in 2010…
Buxton was the last straw for me, I have stop paying attention to “blindfolded dart throwing” lists. If you can be wrong 70-80% of time, what is the point.

Psychic... Powerless...
8 years ago

Two quotes; one from yesterday, one from above:

“league-wide exit velocity has decreased, by a full tick. A full tick feels substantial.”

“[39% > 35% > 30%]…you might want to identify a trend. But… I personally don’t see much of a hint of anything.”

Honest question:

I took stats thirty years ago, so perhaps I’m confused, and I definitely mean no offense, but isn’t it relatively easy to determine whether these decreases are statistically significant?

Thank you.

cnote66Member since 2017
8 years ago

Twitter war starting brew over “non-prospect”